SPOILER: meer foto's

Franse luchtaanvallen nabij Benghazi zondag, via NRC Liveblog

CNN Nic Robertson: Libyan woman bursts into hotel to tell her story of rape (Mar 26, 2011)

NBC Reporter Takes incoming Fire from Artillery in Libya

Nato to take over Libya action''indays''

SPOILER: meer YouTube

Military assets in battle for Libya

US Fighter Jet Down In Libya - Pilot Dismisses Missile

Video Breaking News Videos from CNN com

SPOILER: meer kaarten

SPOILER: eerdere topics

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SPOILER: UN / NATO info

quote:

No-fly zone (NFZ)
Resolutie 1973 van de Veiligheidsraad van de Verenigde Naties werd door de VN-Veiligheidsraad aangenomen op 17 maart 2011. Ze had betrekking op de situatie in Libi� in verband met de opstand aldaar. De resolutie, die werd ingediend door Frankrijk, het Verenigd Koninkrijk en Libanon stelde een vliegverbod boven Libi� in en machtigde alle VN-lidstaten om, met uitsluiting van een buitenlandse bezettingsmacht op Libisch grondgebied, alle noodzakelijke maatregelen te nemen voor de bescherming van de burgerbevolking in Libi�. Tien lidstaten van de Raad stemden v��r de resolutie. Naast de drie indieners waren dit de Verenigde Staten, Bosni� en Herzegovina, Colombia, Gabon, Portugal, Nigeria en Zuid-Afrika. Vijf landen onthielden zich van stemming, namelijk Rusland, China, Brazili�, Duitsland en India.

Fases
• Fase 1: Uitschakelen van de luchtverdediging
• Fase 2: Monitoren van schendingen van de no-flyzone en van aanvallen op burgers

Belangrijkste punten van de Resolutie
• Eist de onmiddellijke instelling van een staakt-het-vuren en een volledige stopzetting van het geweld en alle aanvallen tegen en misbruik van burgers;
• Machtigt de lidstaten (...), hetzij nationaal handelend of door middel van regionale organisaties of regelingen, (...) om met aanvallen bedreigde burgers en bevolkte gebieden in Libi�, met inbegrip van Benghazi, te beschermen met uitsluiting van een buitenlandse bezettingsmacht in welke vorm dan ook op enig deel van het Libische grondgebied;
• Besluit een verbod in te stellen op alle vluchten in het luchtruim van Libi� om burgers te helpen beschermen;
• Besluit verder dat het verbod opgelegd bij paragraaf 6 niet van toepassing is op vluchten die uitsluitend humanitaire hulp als doel hebben, zoals het leveren of het vergemakkelijken van verlenen van bijstand, met inbegrip van medische benodigdheden, voedsel, humanitaire hulpverleners en bijstand in verband met, of voor het afvoeren van vreemdelingen uit Libi�, is evenmin van toepassing op vluchten die door de paragrafen 4 of 8, noch op andere vluchten die noodzakelijk worden geacht door de staten die handelen onder de vergunning die is verleend in paragraaf 8 ten behoeve van de Libische volk, en dat deze vluchten worden geco�rdineerd met een mechanisme overeenkomstig met paragraaf 8;
• Machtigt de lidstaten (...), hetzij nationaal handelend of door middel van regionale organisaties of regelingen, om alle nodige maatregelen te nemen om de naleving van het verbod op vluchten zoals zijn opgelegd in paragraaf 6 hierboven, zo nodig af te dwingen;
• Beslist dat alle staten alle vliegtuigen die geregistreerd zijn in Libi� of eigendom zijn van of ge�xploiteerd worden door Libische onderdanen of bedrijven de toestemming dienen te weigeren om van hun grondgebied op te stijgen, erop te landen, of over hun grondgebied te vliegen, tenzij de betreffende vlucht is goedgekeurd door de bij resolutie 1970 ingestelde commissie of in het geval van een noodlanding. (bron)

quote:

Landen die militaire steun verlenen:
• Belgi�: stuurt zes F16 fighters, ook is de mijnenveger BNS Narcis in het gebied.
• Canada: stuurt zeven CF-18 fighters 140 soldaten naar de regio, het Halifax-class fregat HMCS Charlottetown is ook betrokken bij de operatie.
• Denemarken: stuurt zes F-16 fighters.
• Frankrijk: heeft Mirage en Rafale vliegtuigen op de bases Istres and at Solenzara gestationeerd. Tankvliegtuigen zijn gestationeerd op Istres. De anti-air destroyer Forbin is vlakbij het gebied. De carrier Charles de Gaulle wordt met haar volledige strike group naar de Libische kust uitgezonden. Tijdens een persconferentie werd gezegd dat er op dit moment (20-03) twintig vliegtuigen boven Libi� actief zijn.
• Griekenland: stuurt vier F-16 fighters, twee fregatten en een AWACS.
• Itali�: volgens het Pentagon nemen er elf fregatten deel aan de eerst aanvalsgolf.
• Nederland: Stuurt zes F-16's, een tanker en de Hr.ms. Haarlem, een mijnenveger.
• Noorwegen: stuurt zes F-16 fighters en een P-3 Orion surveillance vliegtuig. Hij kondigde ook aan humanitaire hulp te bieden.
• Qatar: volgens de Qatar News Agency zullen er tussen de vier en zes vliegtuigen (Mirages) meehelpen met het in stand houden van de no-fly zone boven Libi�.
• Spanje: stuurt vier F-18 fighters, een tanker, one F100 frigate, one submarine and one P-3 Orion surveillance vliegtuig.
• Verenigde Arabische Emiraten: Heeft aangekondigd 24 vliegtuigen (Mirages en F-16’s) te zullen sturen.
• Verenigd Koninkrijk: Cameron heeft bevestigd dat Typhoon en Tornadofighters mee zullen participeren in de operatie, samen met tankers en surveillance vliegtuigen.
• Verenigde Staten: de VS hebben elf schepen uitgezonden, waaronder de carrier USS Enterprise. Ook worden doormiddel van Tomahawk-raketten SAM-sites uitgenomen. Volgens een woordvoerder van het Pentagon zijn er drie B-2 bommenwerpers en negentien F-16 en F-18 fighters actief boven Libi�, als ook AC-130 PSYOP toestellen. Er zijn U-2 spionagevliegtuigen gestationeerd op Cyprus.

NAVO
• Heeft permanent AWACS vliegtuigen in de lucht, bemanningen worden geleverd door diverse lidstaten.

Landen die mogelijk de no-fly zone militair zullen steunen:
• Albanie: heeft bekend gemaakt klaar te zijn om te helpen.
• Jordani�
• Kroati�: heeft beloofd hulp te sturen, al dan niet militair.
• Saoedi-Arabie: Min. BuZa heeft bekend gemaakt mogelijk airstrikes uit te zullen voeren.
• Duitsland: schijnt indirect steun te gaan geven door posities in Afghanistan te gaan versterken, stuurt mogelijk AWACS-bemanningen. Ook wordt de campagne in Libi� geco�rdineerd vanaf een militaire basis nabij Ramstein. (zie hieronder)
• Turkije: heeft bekend gemaakt de 'nodige voorbereidingen' te gaan treffen.
• Zweden: heeft aangegeven steun te zullen verlenen wanneer de NATO daarom vraagt. Stuurt humanitaire hulp.

Bases die in gebruik zijn:
• Duitsland: Ramstein - van hieruit wordt de operatie in Libi� geco�rdineerd.
• Frankrijk: Istres, Solenzara, Saint-Dizier Robinson Air Base
• Griekenland: Souda, Aktion.
• Itali�: Amendola, Aviano, Decimomannu, Gioia del Colle, Trapani, Pantelleria, Sigonella, Capodichino
• Spanje: Rota, Mor�n, Torrej�n
• Verenigd Koninkrijk: RAF Akrotiri

Laatste update: 23-03, 00:37

quote:

Naamgebruik:
• Operation Mobile, Canada
• Op�ration Harmattan, Frankrijk
• Operation Ellamy, Verenigd Koninkrijk
• Operation Odyssey Dawn, Verenigde Staten

quote:

Op donderdag 7 april 2011 00:17 schreef svann het volgende:

[..]

Vloek niet!
Ik luisterde vaak naar die zender die uitzond vanaf de MEBO II.
Dat was Radio Noordzee, de concurrent van Veronica.

Gaaf dat die nu door Benghazi Free Radio wordt gebruikt!

quote:

In Libi� duurt de impasse voort. De opstandelingen weten de steden in oosten stevig in handen, maar doorstoten naar het westen richting de hoofdstad Tripoli lijkt er voorlopig niet in te zitten. Verslaggever Lex Runderkamp in het oosten van Libi�.

quote:

Oil Sales
The rebels were preparing to make their first international oil sale as the tanker Equator, which can carry 1 million barrels, departed the Marsa al Hariga terminal near the port of Tobruk in rebel-held eastern Libya, according to ship-tracking data compiled by Bloomberg.

The Equator arrived April 5 and is now signaling Singapore as its destination, the data show. The cargo may bring more than $100 million for the rebels. The rebels' national council said April 1 that it had reached a deal to have Qatar help market Libyan oil, with proceeds going toward food, fuel, medicine and other items.

quote:

"The vessel loaded, the intended destination is Singapore," a shipping source said. "It will probably end up in China."

quote:

Op donderdag 7 april 2011 08:17 schreef DeRakker. het volgende:
http://www.dumpert.nl/med(...)n_brega_vandaag.html

Warchild kom er maar in.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 april 2011 12:22 schreef Ulpianus het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]

Misurata.

quote:

Freedom_7uriyah: Alarabiya:Muhamed shibani: Tripoli, G's men drove round with rev flags.When enough youth joined them they shot at them. 80 dead. 250 injured
41 minutes ago via TweetCaster

haitm9b: @ceoDanya G forces did a trap to libyan youth in tripoli making dem believe tht ther r protest so they joined them and then 80 got killed
9 minutes ago via web �

quote:

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Eman al-Obeidy, the woman who says forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi raped her, is grateful for support she has received, said CNN's Nic Robertson, who met briefly with her Wednesday.

"She is a very strong lady who told me to thank all (the) people who have stopped her case from disappearing," Robertson said. Al-Obeidy said she had a message for humanitarian organizations: They should come to Tripoli and "see how life is here," he said.

She said she is still recovering physically from the alleged assault and displayed faded bruises and rope burn marks on her wrists, Robertson said. But, she told him, she is unable to leave Tripoli and be reunited with her family and faces abuse whenever she leaves her house, he said.

The Libyan government is insisting on a review of the interview by a government representative before transmission. The review was scheduled Wednesday night, but an apparently imminent airstrike postponed the review until Thursday morning. Verder.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 april 2011 12:05 schreef rakotto het volgende:

[..]

WTF was dat.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 april 2011 19:23 schreef svann het volgende:


Waarom de kans verknallen dat het westen eens in een positiever daglicht komt te staan in de arabische wereld?

quote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk(...)dmap-for-peace-libya

Recep Tayyip Erdogan urges Gaddafi forces to withdraw from cities, and calls for comprehensive democratic change

Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, has proposed a roadmap for peace in Libya, urging forces aligned with Muammar Gaddafi to withdraw from besieged cities, and calling for the establishment of humanitarian aid corridors and comprehensive democratic change.

Erdogan said the measures would be discussed at a meeting by a group set up to guide the international intervention in Libya in Qatar next week.

Turkey has held talks this week with envoys from Gaddafi's government and representatives of the Libyan opposition.

Erdogan also assured the opposition that Turkey supports their demands, following recent protests in Libya against Turkey by some opposition members.

Turkey initially balked at the idea of military action in Libya, but is now taking part in the enforcement of a no-fly zone to shield civilians. It has also volunteered to lead humanitarian aid efforts.

Britain's Foreign Office said the contact group that will meet in Qatar – which includes European powers, US allies in the Middle East and a number of international organisations – will meet in Doha on Wednesday.

The ministry could not confirm precisely who has been invited to attend. British government officials said the US would be represented, and that the Arab League is also expected to be at the talks.

Britain's foreign secretary, William Hague, said last week that he planned to travel to the talks alongside about a dozen other Arab, European and international officials.

The group was established during a summit in London last week to act as the political guide to the Nato-led military operation and humanitarian assistance mission in Libya.

Hague told parliament last week that the panel would "maintain international unity and bring together a wide range of nations in support of a better future for Libya."

Gaddafi has been widely excluded from international efforts to broker a peace plan, with rebels insisting that his four-decade rule must end.

In Scotland, prosecutors confirmed that they would not have a chance Thursday to interview Moussa Koussa, the ex-Libyan foreign minister who fled to Britain via Tunisia last week and has spent eight days in discussions with diplomats and intelligence officials.

Prosecutors said on Monday they hoped to speak with Koussa within days over the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, which killed 270 people.

In 2003, Libya acknowledged responsibility for the bombing and Scottish authorities believe Koussa could offer vital information to their ongoing inquiry.

Another former Gaddafi loyalist, former energy minister Omar Fathi bin Shatwan, has also held talks with British and other European diplomats to discuss the state of Gaddafi's regime. He told the Associated Press on Wednesday that he had fled to Malta on a fishing vessel.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 april 2011 19:23 schreef svann het volgende:
NATO is ongelofelijk traag en slecht in communicatie.

Waar is de tijd dat men vanaf de grond de co�rdinaten van Gaddafi's troepen aan de amerikanen, engelsen of fransen doorgaf en er in vrij korte tijd respons kwam?
Nu schijnt dat een uur of acht te moeten duren.
Waarom wachten tot een regiment in de voorsteden staat als men het met een beetje co�rdinatie al eerder in onbewoond gebied had kunnen tegenhouden?

Waarom de kans verknallen dat het westen eens in een positiever daglicht komt te staan in de arabische wereld?

quote:

Tripolitanian #FBI has confirmed that #Gaddafi may be attempting retaliatory attacks against Americans on American soil | #US #Libya about 1 hour ago via web

quote:

CBSNews: General: U.S. may consider troops in Libya

quote:

Op donderdag 7 april 2011 23:09 schreef MisterJ.Lo het volgende:
Als Amerika grondtroepen inzet is het definitief afgelopen met Khadaffi en zijn huurlingen, het nadeel hiervan is is de negatieve propaganda dat achteraf ingesteld zou kunnen worden om te kunnen stellen dat Amerika Libi� alleen is beginnen gevallen voor de olie.

quote:

Ja, we vallen binnen want deze dictator maakt mensen af EN is nadelig voor de olieprijs. Dit be�nvloed niet alleen ons maar heel de wereld en dat is slecht.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 april 2011 03:43 schreef svann het volgende:
BBC News: RAF jets join ground-attack force

More British warplanes are moving from policing the no-fly zone in Libya to begin ground attacks in the country.

RAF missiles hit 12 targets around rebel-held Misrata and Sirte.
The targets were six armoured fighting vehicles and six battle tanks, the MoD said.

Libya's deputy foreign minister, Khaled Kaim, said a British air strike had hit its major Sarir oilfield and damaged a pipeline connecting the deposit to a Mediterranean port.

Meer

quote:

Op donderdag 7 april 2011 23:09 schreef MisterJ.Lo het volgende:
Als Amerika grondtroepen inzet is het definitief afgelopen met Khadaffi en zijn huurlingen, het nadeel hiervan is is de negatieve propaganda dat achteraf ingesteld zou kunnen worden om te kunnen stellen dat Amerika Libi� alleen is beginnen gevallen voor de olie.

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 april 2011 01:18 schreef rakotto het volgende:
Grondtroepen moeten sowieso niet in Libie.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 april 2011 23:09 schreef MisterJ.Lo het volgende:
Als Amerika grondtroepen inzet is het definitief afgelopen met Khadaffi en zijn huurlingen, het nadeel hiervan is is de negatieve propaganda dat achteraf ingesteld zou kunnen worden om te kunnen stellen dat Amerika Libi� alleen is beginnen gevallen voor de olie.

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 april 2011 01:33 schreef MangoTree het volgende:
gpd Middleeast

Turks voedselschip weggestuurd uit haven Benghazi. Reactie rebellen: Nokken met die boot, we wachten niet op eten, maar op wapens
1 hour ago

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 april 2011 01:35 schreef boekenplank het volgende:

[..]

En dat doen ze niet? Schei toch uit er zijn over de hele wereld brandhaarden met dictators en mensenrechtenschendingen. Zitten er al troepen in Myanmar, bombarderen we al in Ivoorkust, in China verdwijnen ook opeens weer een hoop dissidenten gaan we daar wat aan doen?
Nee, het is allemaal eigengewin.

quote:

8 April 2011 Last updated at 09:14 GMT
Nato refuses to apologise for strike on Libya rebels
Nato has refused to apologise for a "friendly fire" attack on rebel tanks in eastern Libya that killed at least four people.

Rear Adm Russ Harding said that until Thursday's incident, Nato had not been aware that rebel troops had started to use tanks.

"Our job is to protect civilians," he told a news conference.

Rebel forces reacted with anger at the air strike on their tanks near the eastern town of Ajdabiya.

However, rebel commanders had stressed that it would not damage relations with the allied force.

Rear Adm Harding, speaking in Naples, described the situation between the towns of Ajdabiya and Brega - where the attack happened - as "very fluid" with vehicles "going backwards and forwards".

He said government tanks known to have previously targeted civilians in the town of Misrata had been on the road on Thursday. At that point, Nato did not know that rebel troops had begun to bring out their tanks.

He said that the UN mandate under which Nato is operating is to "protect civilians", whether from the forces of Col Gaddafi or the rebel troops themselves.

"Let me be clear, it did not say to gain the trust of either side in doing that," he said.

Explanation call

The rebels hit in Thursday's air strike had been moving a group of tanks, armoured vehicles and rocket launchers near the front line between the towns of Ajdabiya and Brega in more than 30 transporters.

One rebel commander told the BBC he saw at least four missiles land among rebel fighters.

Rebels said four rebels died, while local doctors told the BBC at least 13 fighters had been killed in the strike. Many more were injured.

The BBC's Wyre Davies in Ajdabiya said there was considerable anger among rebel troops about the incident. They were asking why rebel units were hit, when they could be seen clearly advancing in a westerly direction towards the front line.

Rebel commander Gen Abdelfatah Yunis had earlier called on Nato to give a "rational and convincing explanation" about the incident.

He also said such mistakes must not be repeated and called for better co-operation in the future.

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 april 2011 11:41 schreef doeterniettoezegiktoch het volgende:

[..]

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 april 2011 11:43 schreef Ulpianus het volgende:

[..]

Wat een rare reactie. Een excuses kan toch wel?

quote:

08 Apr. 2011
Press briefing on events concerning Libya (audio)
by Oana Lungescu, the NATO Spokesperson and Rear Admiral Russell Harding, Deputy Commander of the Combined Joint Task Force Operation Unified Protector

On 8 April, Oana Lungescu, the NATO Spokesperson, briefed the press on events concerning Libya.

She was joined by Rear Admiral Russell Harding, Deputy Commander of the Combined Joint Task Force Operation Unified Protector, who briefed from Naples (via video teleconference) on NATOs operation in Libya in support of UNSCR 1973.

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 april 2011 11:46 schreef doeterniettoezegiktoch het volgende:

[..]

ja ik vind het ook raar ik ben ff aan het bijlezen en luisteren , hier audio van die persconferentie ;

[..]

quote:

08 Apr. 2011
Press briefing on events concerning Libya
by Oana Lungescu, the NATO Spokesperson and Rear Admiral Russell Harding, Deputy Commander of the Combined Joint Task Force Operation Unified Protector

* Good morning welcome to NATO headquarters in Brussels. I am very pleased to introduce Deputy Commander of Operation Unified Protector, Rear Admiral James Harding, who joins us from Naples.

NATO has been in full command and control of enforcing United Nations Security Council resolution 1973 for a full week now. During that time we have continued to degrade Gaddafis military, as the regime continues to hold cities under siege and indiscriminately its own people. Our action has been decisive, far-reaching and sustained.

Admiral Harding will give more information on the operational aspects of the mission in a few moments.

Forces from NATO nations and partners in the region are contributing to the Alliances operation, demonstrating the breadth of international military commitment to this operation. This includes substantial contributions from Qatar the UAE and Sweden.

NATO Allies met yesterday with our operational partners to discuss the situation in Libya, the dire conditions in Misrata, and further broadening of international contribution in support of this mission. All confirmed their continued commitment to the military operation to protect the people of Libya.

The North Atlantic Council also met earlier this week with the Chairperson of the African Union Commission Jean Ping. They agreed the African Union plays a key role in achieving an early and peaceful solution to the crisis. And of course we will continue to maintain a close and transparent dialogue with the African Union, as well as other relevant international and regional organisations.

NATO is in command of the military mission, but we know there can be no purely military solution to this crisis. There is unprecedented international unity and resolve for a political solution. The Secretary General will attend next weeks Contact Group meeting in Qatar. NATO will contribute there, as part of the broader of international effort to discuss the way forward for Libya.

The NATO Secretary General is in constant discussions with international leaders who are playing a key role in the ongoing efforts to support Libya. He has briefed them on NATOs led operations and has been clear that NATO stands ready to assist in whatever capacity the international community deems appropriate.

We will face challenges in the days and weeks ahead. The safety and the legitimate aspirations of the Libyan civilian population are at stake, and the need for the international community to act with unity and purpose is clear. For its part NATO is pressing ahead with the robust and vigilant enforcement of UNSCR 1973.

The civilian population of Libya are NATOs foremost concern. NATOs message to the citizens of LIbya is clear. Our mission is to protect you from those who use military force against unarmed civilians. We are steadfast in our resolve to prevent Gadaffi from using his heavy weaponry against you.

Now to provide more detail of what NATO forces have achieved in that spirit of unity, I would now like to hand over to Rear Admiral Harding.*

http://www.nato.int/cps/e(...)e/opinions_72150.htm

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 april 2011 11:48 schreef doeterniettoezegiktoch het volgende:

[..]

hier is de tekst van de audio

[..]

quote:

10:39am

This video posted online by Wefaq Media is said to show the air strike that killed at least four people outside Brega yesterday.

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 april 2011 16:39 schreef svann het volgende:
Misrata: bombardementen, snipers, vaak geen water en stroom, vernielde riolering (dreigt te overstromen).

مشاهد من شارع طرابلس في مصراته ليبيا

Vertaling commentaar: http://feb17.info/media/video-misrata-april-6-2011

quote:

Libische rebellen zijn vrijdag begonnen met het verven van de daken van hun tanks. Ze hopen dat de vliegtuigen van de NAVO hen herkennen als bondgenoten als hun tanks roze zijn.

� AFP
De rebellen besloten hiertoe nadat tot twee keer toe per ongeluk een tank van de rebellen was gebombardeerd.
De NAVO stelde vrijdag niet te hebben geweten dat de opstandelingen in Libi� tanks gebruiken. NAVO-topman Anders Fogh Rasmussen verklaarde ''het verlies aan levens'' zeer te betreuren.

De rebellen stelden daarop ''niet op zoek te zijn naar een excuus, maar naar een uitleg''. ''Het lijkt erop dat de communicatie niet goed is verlopen'', aldus een zegsman van de rebellen. De NAVO stelde al dat de communicatie met de rebellen moet worden verbeterd.

quote:

Libya Domain Dominates Twitter

The United Nations, NATO, the U.S. Air Force, and even Human Rights Watch have, strangely enough, been directing Twitter followers to an Internet domain controlled by the regime of Muammar Gaddafi. Libyas Internet domain happens to be the English languages adverbial suffix ly, and the .ly domain is used by popular companies like bit.ly and Ow.ly that compress lengthy Internet addresses to 20 characters, making them easier to fit into the 140 allotted characters on Twitter. The .ly domain is controlled by Libyas General Post and Telecommunications Co., whose chairman is Mohammed Gaddafithe Libyan dictators eldest son. Its ironic and a little bit distasteful, said Tom Malinowski, the Washington director of Human Rights Watch, upon hearing the news.

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 april 2011 18:01 schreef Pannenkoekenmix het volgende:

Mooi om te zien, de rebellen doen ook hun best om problemen zelf op te lossen (in plaats van alleen maar met het vingertje wijzen).

SPOILER: NicRobertsonCNN op Twitter

Approx 30 international journalists in white bus going to #Misrata on govt-organized trip.
^{about 10 hours ago via web}
In Homs, about 70 kms from Misrata...
^{about 8 hours ago via web}
10-15kms outside Misrata at big militry chckpt. Chkpts on rd from Tripoli look more professionl thn b4, more uniformd soldiers, fewer civlns
^{about 7 hours ago via web}
The further away from Tripoli, the longer the lines for gasoline
^{about 7 hours ago via web}
Confusion at chkpt resulted in bus going back to Zlitan, 40km from Misrata, where waited for press conf w diplomats that didn't happen.
^{about 6 hours ago via web}
Now bus heading back for Misrata, about 40km away.
^{about 6 hours ago via web}
Heading back to Tripoli now. We went back to try to get into Misrata with journalists on two buses -- buses got separated
^{about 2 hours ago via web}
Bus we on waited w the diplomats abt 10 kms outside city. Other bus w journalists went into Misrata, where they talked to Libyan soldiers
^{about 2 hours ago via web}
Journalists tell us soldier was leadng them across road, was burst of heavy gunfire & suddenly realizd soldier hd blood coming down head.
^{about 2 hours ago via web}
We stopped in Zlitan again on way back, were taken w diplomats to hospital there where we saw soldier who'd been injured while w journlists
^{about 2 hours ago via web}
The soldier, w his head bandaged, said gunfire was celebratory and shot grazed his head as it fell from sky. Unclear what really happened.
^{about 2 hours ago via web}
On way back to Tripoli now.
^{about 2 hours ago via web}

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 april 2011 23:46 schreef svann het volgende:
Journalisten zijn vandaag vanuit Tripoli op overheidsdagtocht naar Misrata geweest.
De helft werd daar even rondgeleid, de andere helft bleef voor de stad steken.
Merkwaardige trip weer met meer dan tien uur bussen.

SPOILER: NicRobertsonCNN op Twitter

Approx 30 international journalists in white bus going to #Misrata on govt-organized trip.
^{about 10 hours ago via web}
In Homs, about 70 kms from Misrata...
^{about 8 hours ago via web}
10-15kms outside Misrata at big militry chckpt. Chkpts on rd from Tripoli look more professionl thn b4, more uniformd soldiers, fewer civlns
^{about 7 hours ago via web}

The further away from Tripoli, the longer the lines for gasoline
^{about 7 hours ago via web}
Confusion at chkpt resulted in bus going back to Zlitan, 40km from Misrata, where waited for press conf w diplomats that didn't happen.
^{about 6 hours ago via web}
Now bus heading back for Misrata, about 40km away.
^{about 6 hours ago via web}
Heading back to Tripoli now. We went back to try to get into Misrata with journalists on two buses -- buses got separated
^{about 2 hours ago via web}
Bus we on waited w the diplomats abt 10 kms outside city. Other bus w journalists went into Misrata, where they talked to Libyan soldiers
^{about 2 hours ago via web}
Journalists tell us soldier was leadng them across road, was burst of heavy gunfire & suddenly realizd soldier hd blood coming down head.
^{about 2 hours ago via web}
We stopped in Zlitan again on way back, were taken w diplomats to hospital there where we saw soldier who'd been injured while w journlists
^{about 2 hours ago via web}
The soldier, w his head bandaged, said gunfire was celebratory and shot grazed his head as it fell from sky. Unclear what really happened.
^{about 2 hours ago via web}
On way back to Tripoli now.
^{about 2 hours ago via web}

quote:

MISRATA, Libya (AP) Moammar Gadhafi's government brought foreign journalists to Misrata on Friday to show that its forces hold significant control over the only major city in western Libya still in rebel hands, but the trip suggested that their situation had if anything grown more dire after weeks of laying siege to the enemy's stronghold.

Reporters were bused to the same intersection, more than a mile (2 kilometers) from downtown, where government officials took them about 10 days ago. Back then, it was to show the effects of a NATO airstrike. This time, it was simply as far as the tour could go before the sounds of gunfire and shelling forced officials to turn around.

At one point, the journalists took cover amid gunfire. A Libyan soldier, Walid Mohammed Walid, received a head wound in the shooting and was taken to a hospital.

Buildings were heavily pockmarked from battle, as they were previously. But while Gadhafi's forces at the intersection were seen on open ground on the earlier visit, this time the few soldiers there were hiding out in buildings or on rooftops.

The scene along the road from Tripoli, dotted with burned-out tanks, anti-aircraft guns hidden by vegetation and checkpoints made of tires and sand banks, underscored the devastating struggle over Misrata. It is the most sustained conflict in the Libyan uprising and the focus of a growing international efforts to bring aid by sea to besieged residents caught in the crossfire.

Just 100 miles (160 kilometers) southeast of the capital Tripoli, Misrata is symbolic and strategic for both sides, each of which holds key parts of Libya's third-largest city.

Rebels, who hold central neighborhoods and the critical port area, want to hang onto an important foothold deep in Gadhafi's territory.

Government forces surround the city and patrol the main roadways. Their aim is to consolidate control over the west in preparation for a possible push against largely rebel-held eastern Libya.

As a group of international journalists approached Misrata on Friday's government-controlled visit, smoke could be seen coming out of the city from the distance. In the area where the tour turned back, streets and homes were utterly deserted.

Even as the showdown deepens, NATO has struggled with how to work Misrata into its airstrike missions. The alliance has been cautious about waging bombing runs in the city because of the risk of civilian casualties.

Even the limited look inside Misrata was unusual. Libyan officials have tried to block journalists from entering the city, although a few reporters have entered previously by sea.

It was unclear which side had the upper hand in the latest fighting. But a witness said rebel forces were trying to keep Gadhafi's troops from taking full control of a route linking central Misrata to its port, a crucial lifeline for ships carrying humanitarian supplies into the battle zone.

The witness's account could not be independently verified. There also were no credible reports on casualties. Verder.

quote:

Huffington Post - NEW YORK -- Former Congressman Curt Weldon (R-Penn.), who arrived in Tripoli this week on a "private mission" to ask Muammar Gaddafi to step aside, left Libya today after failing to meet privately with the strongman.

The lawmaker, who has traveled to Libya more than any other Congressman and has established close ties to the Gaddafi family, expressed his disappointment in a statement sent to The Huffington Post by Weldon's daughter, Kristin Weldon Peri. "I am disappointed that I did not get to sit down face to face with Col. Qadaffi as promised, but I may have been able to get something even more significant -- a path to a resolution of this conflict. Anytime you are asked to play a part in advancing the cause of peace there is a moral obligation to say yes."

Weldon, who says he was invited to Libya by Gaddafi's chief of staff, Dr. Bashir Saleh, said that his message to government officials he met in Tripoli "was in direct support of the state public positions of President Barack Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton." Verder.

quote:

Op zaterdag 9 april 2011 01:34 schreef svann het volgende:
AJE 10:40pm
NATO airstrikes have hit weapons depots belonging to Gaddafi's forces near the town of Zintan, a resident told Reuters:
The depots are situated 15km southeast of Zintan. We could see buildings on fire in the distance.
First we heard aircraft and then we counted some 14 explosions.
Some people used binoculars and saw buildings on fire
Rebels believe some of the depots were destroyed but not all. We are talking about huge facilities.

quote:

Op zaterdag 9 april 2011 01:36 schreef boekenplank het volgende:
Ga eens lekker na je nest. Ramptoeriste.

quote:

Op zaterdag 9 april 2011 01:41 schreef svann het volgende:

[..]

Je komt thuis uit de kroeg en komt weer even een rondje opmerkingen droppen?
Je hebt een fraai oeuvre.

quote:

Op zaterdag 9 april 2011 01:57 schreef boekenplank het volgende:

[..]

Wat moeten we dan met jullie tweets? Wat wil je ermee? Heb je een standpunt in deze? Je steunt alle opstandelingen in het Midden Oosten, waarom? Gaan ze het beter krijgen als de zittende heersers weg zijn? Zo ja, waar leidt je dit aan af of leg het mij eens uit.

edit: boekenplank komt niet in kroegen teveel paupers.

quote:

Op zaterdag 9 april 2011 12:05 schreef remlof het volgende:
Is er nog iets bekend over die Nederlandse Lynx? Kan me zo voorstellen dat als ie nog op het strand van Syrte stond toen de luchtaanvallen begonnen de coalitie 'm aan flarden heeft geschoten.

quote:

Op zaterdag 9 april 2011 13:13 schreef MisterJ.Lo het volgende:

[..]

Dat is wel het laatste waar je je zorgen om moet maken.

quote:

ChangeInLibya
AJA: NATO jets destroyed a Gaddafi convoy of 200 cars trying to surround Ajdabiya from the south (Jalu) <-- nice #libya #feb17
^{Twitter about 2 hours ago via web}

Youth group stages dawn protest in Tripoli

quote:

In the name of Allah most merciful...

Here we are the city of Tripoli Revolutionaries, we say again ... We are here ... We are standing.

At a time when we protest again, after the loss of hundreds of martyrs amongst us from Tajurah, Suq El Jumma, Mizran, Fashloum, and Martyr square.

And at a time when Gaddaffis battalions continue to persecute and apprehend thousands of revolutionaries in every district of Tripoli and without discrimination, from Tajura to Saraj, and from Suq El Jumma and Arrada to Al Seyahiya to Ghout El shaal and Abu Nawas to 2 Maris, and from Gergarish and Hay Al andalus and Dredi and Hadabah to Furnaj, Zanata ,Ben Ashour and Dahra, and from Sidi Khalifa and Almansura to Ain Zara and Airport Road and to all other areas without exceptions.

These are our streets, and these are our alleys , for we vow to you shameful and disgraceful Gaddafi, not you nor your battalions, nor your snipers, nor your mercenaries however many they are, will not terrify us anymore, and we will not back down on our revolution and up rise no matter how greater the sacrifice.

For this city with its students and professors and universities and businessmen and fishermen and doctors and those who witnessed you crimes on February 20th , the day that your revenge reached the highest limits of murdering the injured of those who did not die on site during the demonstrations on Martyrs Square, where those who did not fall from your machine guns in the streets were pursued by your gunmen in the emergency rooms and intensive care units of the hospitals in Tripoli. This city will not allow you to make it weak, easy nor vulnerable ever again.

The Libyans may have been tolerant to the exploitation and abuse of this insane system, in fear of its tyranny and infinite madness, but now that the fear barrier has been broken and shrivelled in the events of the last few weeks, we are thus continuing in the path of freedom and Tripoli will remain a burning flame under his feet and those who follow him.

We will not shout, nor will we tense up as Gaddaffi did in the utmost level of his weakness and vulnerability, but we will maintain our composure and the confidence of the strong, convinced of the nearness of victory and triumph god willing.

The dictator has polluted the language of speech with his cheap synonyms and pitiful descriptions, as he sees people from his point of view, and where we only see him as insolvent, desperate and defeated, becoming himself the terrified rat , spending his days in tunnels and his nights between cellars.

He destroyed the safe country with his ruining alleged leadership, which only led to war, underdevelopment, disability and a country under siege... But now we will take control of the leadership, and we have identified his demise, and we have planned the way for our salvation with no return.

A salute and tribute of respect and glory to the free Libyan revolutionaries everywhere, those who gave an example of gallantry and courage.

We put our hands together with, and renew our support and solidarity to the National Transitional Council, and affirm our support on all its blessed steps and actions.

Glory to Tripoli the capital and eternal glory to our honourable martyrs.

quote:

telegraph.co.uk - State-run Libyan television has shown footage of Muammar Gaddafi at a school in Tripoli on a visit it said took place on Saturday.

In the footage Gadhafi is seen entering the school surrounded by bodyguards and receives a rapturous reception by the pupils. The TV anchor said the visit took place on Saturday morning.

Gaddafi pointed to the date written on whiteboards in the classrooms a number of times to highlight that he is both alive and still in Libya.

The Libyan leader was last seen in public on April 4.

New Gaddafi Pictures On State TV

Kadhafi fait une apparition dans une école

quote:

gpdMiddleEast GPD Middle East
BREKEND: KADAFI TROEPEN BESTOKEN CENTRUM LIBISCHE STAD AJDABYA NU MET MORTIEREN. Ajdabya is laatste stad voor Benghazi #Libie
7 hours ago

gpdMiddleEast GPD Middle East
BREKEND: AJDABYA DEELS GEVALLEN IN HANDEN KADAFI TROEPEN. AANVAL OP STAD UIT WESTEN EN ZUIDEN. TOT NU TOE GEEN NAVO AIRSTRIKES. #Libie
7 hours ago

gpdMiddleEast GPD Middle East
BREKEND: AJDABYA WEER GEHEEL IN HANDEN REBELLEN, KADAFI TROEPEN GEVANGENGENOMEN EN GEVLUCHT. REBELLEN JUICHEND IN STRATEN BENGHAZI #Libie
4 hours ago

gpdMiddleEast GPD Middle East
Minder brekend, maar toch: heb vanilla cappuccino gevonden in benghazi... was door voorraad heen. maf dat je zoiets hier kunt vinden. #Libie
3 hours ago

quote:

gpdMiddleEast GPD Middle East
situatie enclave Misrata #Libie ronduit dramatisch. Kadafitroepen vermoorden wanhopige bevolking. Soldaten tegen burgers...lafbekken
56 minutes ago

gpdMiddleEast GPD Middle East
NAVO dwingt straaljager van #Libie rebellen tot landen: http://www.channelnewsasi(...)view/1121823/1/.html
24 minutes ago

gpdMiddleEast GPD Middle East
...volgens Navo mag niemand in #Libie vliegen. Kadafi's niet, rebellen niet. "Want Navo is onpartijdig". Da's wel dooddoener van de dag...
8 minutes ago

gpdMiddleEast GPD Middle East
trouwens, beter als Navo eens juiste info geeft. Rebellen straaljager steeg NIET op van Benghazi airport, maar van Tobruk, 450km oost #Libie
3 minutes ago

quote:

telegraph.co.uk - Amateur video posted online shows the deserted war-ravaged streets of Misurata, Libya, 40 days since the city rose up against Col Gaddafi's rule.

Many buildings are burnt out and pitted with bullet holes after more than 40 days of siege, shelling and sniper fire by Muammar Gaddafis forces. Rebel-held Misurata is 125 miles from the Libyan capital Tripoli and control of it is symbolic rather than strategic.

The city rose up with a number of other towns against Gaddafi in mid-February and has been under siege for weeks after a violent crackdown put an end to most other pro-democracy movements in the west of the country. According to a rebel spokesman, troops loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi advanced on Misurata again this morning, triggering street-battles with rebels in the coastal city that forced residents to flee the area.

Nato, which is leading airstrikes against Gadhafis troops, said on Thursday it was trying to find a way to break the assault. Misurata is isolated with the closest rebel forces more than 300 miles away in the east of the country. Between them stands Gaddafi's stronghold of Sirte, which the opposition has tried and failed twice to march on.

Accounts from Misurata cannot be independently verified because the Libyan authorities have not allowed journalists to report freely from the city.

Libya - 08 Apr 2011, Misurata Enduring, 08/04/2011

SPOILER: Casualties

Estimates of deaths in the 2011 Libyan civil war vary from 2,000-10,000 as of March 7. An exact figure is hard to ascertain, partly due to a media clamp-down by the Libyan government. Some conservative estimates have been released. Some of the killing "may amount to crimes against humanity" according to the United Nations Security Council and as of March 2011 is under investigation by the International Criminal Court.

Deaths Caused by Loyalist Forces:

On February 22, the International Coalition Against War Criminals gave an estimate that 519 people had died, 3,980 were wounded and over 1,500 were missing.

Human Rights Watch have estimated that at least 233 people had been killed by February 22.

On February 23, Italy's Minister of Foreign Affairs Franco Frattini stated that according to his information 1,000 people had died so far.

On February 24, the IFHR said that 130 soldiers had been executed in Benghazi and al-Baida, after they mutinied and sided with the protesters.

On February 25, Navi Pillay, the High Commissioner for Human Rights of the United Nations, said that reports indicated that "thousands may have been killed or injured".

On March 20, Abdul Hafiz Ghoga, spokesman for the National Transitional Council, stated that "more than 8,000" people are killed as a result of the uprising.

Deaths Caused by Anti-Gaddafi Forces:

Among the security forces there had been more than 450 dead, including civilians in support of the government, mercenaries and government soldiers. There have been many reports that members of the security forces have been killed by both the government and the opposition. On February 18, two policemen were hanged by protesters in Benghazi. Also, on the same day, 50 African mercenaries, mostly from Chad, were executed by the protesters in al-Baida. Some of them were killed when protestors burned down the police station in which they locked them up and at least 15 were lynched in front of the courthouse in al-Baida. The bodies of some of them were put on display and caught on video. By February 23, the government confirmed that 111 soldiers had been killed.

Deaths Caused by Coalition Forces:

The Libyan official sources claimed that at least between 64 and 90 people were killed during the bombardments on the first two days of the U.N. intervention and another 150 had been wounded. According to the Vatican news agency in Tripoli alone, at least 40 civilians have died as a result of the bombing campaign.

Legal Status:

On 26 February 2011, the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) stated in UNSC Resolution 1970, "the widespread and systematic attacks currently taking place in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya against the civilian population may amount to crimes against humanity" and referred "the situation" in Libya since 15 February 2011 to the International Criminal Court (ICC), a permanent tribunal that presently can prosecute individuals for genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes. On 4 March, the ICC assigned investigation of the case to Pre-trial Chamber I, consisting of Judge Cuno Tarfusser from Italy, Judge Sylvia Steiner from Brazil and Judge Sanji Mmasenono Monageng from Botswana.

Contrary to widespread perceptions, NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussenhas stated on the 28th March that it was impartial and that it interpreted the terms of the UNSC resolutions on the protection of civilians to apply to rebel, as well as government forces. However, it was also reported by the BBC that the rebels felt they had a "private understanding" of the NATO mission. The NATO Secretary General described the possibility that NATO would attack rebel forces who endanger civilian populations as "hypothetical".

Based on the numbers, 1,611-2,102 opposition members/fighters and 586-664 Gaddafi loyalists have been killed by March 31, 2011, for a total of 2,197-2,766 reported deaths, of which some have not been independently confirmed. In addition, another 370 opposition fighters and activists have been confirmed as missing in the fighting in the east and 122 are reported to be missing in the Battle of Misrata for a total of 492 rebels reported missing. However, this number could be higher since it was reported that 700 rebels were missing following the First Battle of Bin Jawad.

If these numbers were to be confirmed as true, they would be in line with at least the WHO estimate of more than 2,000 killed or the IFHR estimate of 3,000 dead in the war.

quote:

22:01 NATO has announced that it has destroyed 15 tanks belonging to Gaddafis forces near Misrata and 2 south of Brega on Friday and Saturday.

SPOILER: Decades of brutality

quote:

For more than four decades, Libya's self-declared 'Brother Leader,' Muammar Qaddafi, has waged a brutal form of psychological warfare against his own people, analysts say. Rebel forces have also been shaped by that violent history.

By Scott Peterson, April 7, 2011 - csmonitor.com
Tripoli, Libya

The video clip ran late at night on Libyas state-run TV with a warning: not suitable for children. It was a gruesome scene that appeared to show an antigovernment mob beating the dead body of a Col. Muammar Qaddafi loyalist in the rebel bastion of Benghazi.

Such visceral imagery has long defined political discourse in Libya. The roots of extreme violence stretch back to the colonial period under Italian rule. But from the earliest years of his reign, Colonel Qaddafi has employed violence from assassinating dissidents abroad to killing opponents at home to sow fear among Libyans and warn against dissent.

[ ]

Libyans have had a very rough time over the last century or so, says George Joffe, a Middle East and North Africa specialist at Cambridge University. Under the Italian occupation they saw their numbers halved, and they just simply died off like flies in concentration camps during the Italo-Sanussi wars, and that certainly left a mark.

[ ]

Its like having people in a bag, and shaking the bag and you keep shaking it, never allowing them for one second to come to a rest, to think about it, says Mr. Kikhia, a Libyan dissident and author of the 1997 book Libyas Qaddafi: The Politics of Confrontation. So they spend their whole time, their whole existence just thinking about how to make it from one hour to the next.

Kikhia left Libya in 1980, not long after seeing five people two of them his personal friends hung as a public spectacle in three locations in Tripoli. Traffic was diverted to force drivers to the scene. They showed it on television, so every Libyan can see Dont oppose me, in any way. "

[ ]

Have they seen us attacking or killing civilians? They havent, says Musa Ibrahim, the government spokesman, about loyalist attempts to capture the rebel-held enclave of Misratah.

Yet hundreds of wounded were evacuated by sea from the city this week: 71 by the French charity Doctors Without Borders, and 250 by Turkey.

Many evacuees recounted stories of Libyan snipers shooting civilians, and tanks blasting the town indiscriminately.

[ ]

Al Jazeera English on Tuesday interviewed a former Libyan soldier, who said he had witnessed the execution of fellow soldiers accused of sympathy for the rebels in Qaddafis hometown of Sirte.

Such violence appears to have spurred lethal antagonism on the rebel side. Kikhia of the University of Texas says that rebel friends of his on the frontline in Misratah have been astonished at how many nations are represented fighting alongside loyalist forces, from Algeria and Chad to Ukraine and Serbia.

"When they catch them, they kill them straight away, says Kikhia of rebel treatment of the mercenaries. He says he counsels them to avoid such retribution because Qaddafi is not our teacher, and the point of this whole revolution is to end what Qaddafi has been doing, to end [his] atrocities."

Kikhia says the rebels should instead heed the example of Omar Mukhtar, the Libyan who led a rebellion against Italian Fascist rule in the 1920s, when the resistance chief was confronted by a similar problem.

Someone said they wanted to kill the Italian prisoners, and Omar Mukhtar told them, Dont do that, explains Kikhia. One of his fighters said, But they kill us. And Omar Mukhtar said to him, But they are not our teachers. Therefore we should not learn wrong from them.

quote:

Wat er in dit subforum vooral geplaatst wordt, zijn nieuwsberichten. Dat is voor de mensen die op de hoogte willen blijven van de gebeurtenissen en daar nog een hoop achtergrondinformatie op de koop toe krijgen.
< ... >
Discusseren via oneliners (of een brei daarvan aan elkaar geplakt) is bij voorbaat al kansloos, tenzij je ervan geniet om heel slim over te komen. Gelukkig heb ik hier al veel meer zinnige discussies gelezen dus de de waarde is allang bewezen.

Ik ben pas 'wakker' geworden sinds Egypte. En ben ik me (eindelijk) eens wat ging verdiepen in de wereldpolitiek. Ga ik er al wat mee doen? Ik ben al begonnen. Hier posten. De volgende stap is ook al in de maak. Ik hoop dat er nog veel meer mensen wereldwijd iets bewuster zijn geworden.

quote:

Op zaterdag 9 april 2011 21:46 schreef MangoTree het volgende:
Je kan mij veel wijsmaken maar het meisje wat je rechts ziet vanaf seconde 14 is niet blij, meer angstig.

quote:

http://www.volkskrant.nl/(...)weg-naar-Libie.dhtml

Leiders van de Afrikaanse Unie, onder wie de Zuid-Afrikaanse president Jacob Zuma, zijn onderweg naar Libi� om te onderhandelen over een staakt-het-vuren. Dat heeft een regeringsfunctionaris in Mauritani� zondag gezegd.

Behalve Zuma behoren ook de presidenten Mohamed Ould Abdel Aziz van Mauritani�, Amadou Toumani Toure van Mali en Denis Sassou Nguesso van Congo tot de onderhandelaars. De Ugandese president Yoweri Museveni heeft zijn minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Henry Oryem Okello naar Tripoli gestuurd.

De delegatie gaat proberen het Libische regime van kolonel Moammar Kadhafi en de opstandelingen die hem ten val willen brengen tot een staakt-het-vuren te bewegen. Zij stellen een rustperiode voor om hervormingen in het Noord-Afrikaanse land een kans te geven. Kadhafi regeert Libi� al sinds 1969 met ijzeren vuist.

quote:

Op zondag 10 april 2011 13:28 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

SPOILER: Ghadames

quote:

February 20, 2011, by Michael J. Totten

If you go to Libya, you simply must visit Ghadames. Known by travelers as the jewel of the Sahara, it's worth all the money and all the hassle you have to put up with to get there.


^{The entrance to Ghadames}

In the early 1980s, Qaddafi's regime emptied the ancient Berber Saharan city by decree. Everyone was shepherded into the modern concrete new town, which begins right outside the mysterious tomblike adobe gates of the old.

The old city doesn't look like a city when you're inside. It looks like a vast underground system of tunnels and caves lit by skylights. It's not underground; it was built with a roof over the top to keep the infernal summer heat out and the meager winter warmth in. Some of the streets (which really are more like passages) are pitch-black even at noon. There was no need for light. The inhabitants had memorized the walls.


<sup>A covered street in Ghadames


A Skylit street in Ghadames</sup>

It is not a small town. It's an enormous weatherproofed adobe mini-metropolis. There are seven quarters and seven gates, one for each resident tribe. Everything you expect in a city is there streets, homes, offices, markets, public squares and mosques, all made of painted mud and sparkling gypsum. The only thing missing from the old city is people.


<sup>An exterior street in Ghadames


Ghadames wall art</sup>

If Libya were a normal country, and if Ghadames were a normal city, the old city would be packed with hotels, coffee shops, restaurants, bookstores, Internet caf�s and desert-adventure tour offices. But Libya is not a normal country, and Ghadames is an unwilling ghost town.

My travel agency replaced Abdul with a second guide for the trip to Ghadames and into the desert. Yasir, I said to him. Why were the people of Ghadames forced out of their homes?

I knew the answer already. It was part of Qaddafi's plot to Arabize the Berbers and to construct the New Man. (Berbers are also forbidden to write anything publicly in their own language.) But I wanted to see if a local was permitted to say it. He couldn't at least didn't answer my question. He only shook his head and laughed nervously. There were others around who could hear.


^{Ghadames from above}

The old city was declared a World Heritage site by UNESCO. A few engineers were inside shoring up the foundations of an old mosque.

It's astonishing, one of them said when I chatted him up. He was an Arab who had studied engineering at a Western university and spoke masterful English in fully formed paragraphs. The sophistication and aesthetic perfection in the old city contrasts markedly with the failures in the new.

No kidding. I've never seen anything like it anywhere else in the world. Neither have you. Because there is nothing like it anywhere else in the world. And there never will be.


^{Inside a traditional Berber house in Ghadames that was preserved for tourists to look at}

We're here to make this place livable again because someday, you know . . . He trailed off, but I knew what he wished he could say. Someday Qaddafi will die. When his bones are pushing up date palms, the people of Ghadames can abandon their compounds of concrete and move back into the city that's rightfully theirs.

I returned to the old city at night by myself and saw a single square of light in an upstairs room of an ancient house. The owners are forbidden to stay there at night. But it's nice to know that some of them still leave the lights on.

quote:

http://www.volkskrant.nl/(...)Libische-tanks.dhtml
Gevechtsvliegtuigen van de NAVO hebben zondag bij de stad Ajdabiyah in het oosten van Libi� elf tanks verwoest. In de buurt van de westelijke stad Misurata vernietigde het bondgenootschap met luchtaanvallen veertien tanks.

Dat heeft een functionaris van de NAVO zondag laten weten. Hij zei dat de alliantie zondag meer luchtaanvallen op doelen rond Ajdabiyah zal uitvoeren. De NAVO-functionaris stelde dat troepen van Kadhafi de stad met zware wapens aanvallen.

quote:

SkyNewsBreak Sky News Newsdesk
Colonel Gaddafi appears at compound in Tripoli with African Union delegates.
2 hours ago

feb17libya Feb17Libya
#Gaddafi makes outdoor appearance in #Tripoli compound after meeting with AU Leaders, details of meeting unknown feb17.info/news/live-liby #LIbya
6 minutes ago

quote:

(Reuters) - NATO aircraft destroyed Libyan tanks on the outskirts of Ajdabiyah on Sunday, helping to break a major assault by forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi on the strategic rebel town.

NATO said it had hit 11 tanks outside Ajdabiyah, which Gaddafi's troops had earlier threatened to overrun, and 14 more on the outskirts of Misrata, a lone rebel bastion in western Libya which has been under siege for six weeks. Verder.

quote:

Op zondag 10 april 2011 23:55 schreef Chooselife het volgende:
Verbaast je dat?

Het is ongeveer een kopie van de opstand van de Mujahedin tegen de Sovjets in Afghanistan. Tot op de details dus, inclusief stiekeme wapenleveranties.

quote:

Op zondag 10 april 2011 23:55 schreef Chooselife het volgende:
Verbaast je dat?

Het is ongeveer een kopie van de opstand van de Mujahedin tegen de Sovjets in Afghanistan. Tot op de details dus, inclusief stiekeme wapenleveranties.

quote:

12:18am: Anita reminds us of the contents of the Africa Union roadmap:

1. Ceasefire & protection of civilians.

2. Humanitarian aid for Libyans & foreign workers especially Africans.

3. Dialogue between the two sides.

4. An inclusive transitional period.

5. Political reforms which meet the aspirations of the Libyan people.

SPOILER: Wat punten in het kort:

--- mercenaries

• Among the reports of atrocities occurring in Libya are claims from African migrants that they were abducted and forced to fight with Gaddafi's forces.

• reports that the Africans are on the frontline, but the snipers are foreigners, mostly from Belarus, Eastern Europe
• Tuaregs were recruited by the Libyan military several years beforehand
• between 5,000 and 10,000 mercenaries may have entered Libya

--- migrants, refugees

in February Gaddafi warned, "You will have the immigration of thousands of people who will invade Europe from Libya, and there will be nobody to stop them."

On entering Libya, thousands of migrants have been arrested and held in (27) detention centres. Many of them are now escaping Libya and can speak openly about the appalling living conditions in the centres, torture resulting in scores of deaths, corruption, lack of legal and medical aid, all of which corroborates with earlier reports made by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and Global Detention Project.

Italy and other EU countries have made it policy to manage immigration from the source of its origins, and in recent years have collaborated with Gaddafi in stemming the flow of African migration following the 2008 Friendship Pact, Italy has provided Libya with funding to build detention centres and surveillance equipment; the European Commission offered Libya up to 50 million Euros in aid last year to stop the flow of immigration.

Hele artikel

quote:

South Africa Exporting Arms to Repressive Regimes: Report
JOHANNESBURG - South Africa has exported millions of dollars' worth of arms to some of the world's most repressive regimes, a weekly newspaper said Sunday, citing a classified government weapons report.

Africa's largest arms exporter has sold weapons to five of the 10 least democratic states on the Economist Intelligence Unit's Democracy Index and 10 of the 25 worst performers on the Global Peace Index, which ranks nations by their peacefulness, according to The Sunday Independent.

Middle East & Africa
The paper cites Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Burundi, China, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tunisia and Yemen as countries with questionable democracy and human rights records that have received South African weapons.

quote:

Nederlandse troepen in beeld voor EU-missie naar Misrata

Nederland komt in aanmerking voor deelname aan een humanitair-militaire missie van de Europese Unie in Libi�. Morgen bespreken de Europese ministers van Buitenlandse Zaken de mogelijkheden op korte termijn voor zo’n missie in Misrata. Dat schrijven NRC-redacteuren Juurd Eijsvoogel en Mark Kranenburg vanmiddag in het Handelsblad.

De EU zal naar verwachting pas in actie komen als er een uitdrukkelijk verzoek komt van de VN. Op een militair hoofdkwartier van de EU in Rome zouden al plannen zijn opgesteld voor hulp aan burgers van die zwaar belegerde stad.

Nederland leidt interventiemacht

De uitvoering van de operatie zou gedaan moeten worden door de Europese snelle interventiemacht, die bestaat uit twee zogeheten battlegroups. Elk half jaar houden andere EU-lidstaten troepen paraat voor deze eenheden.

Hoewel Nederland nu leiding geeft aan de snelle Europese interventiemacht, moet het kabinet apart besluiten of militairen ook op missie worden gestuurd. Daarna zal ook de Tweede Kamer worden geconsulteerd, volgens dezelfde procedure als andere militaire uitzendingen.

Nog geen concreet verzoek

Een woordvoerder van de afdeling operaties van het ministerie van Defensie zegt dat nog geen concrete verzoeken zijn binnengekomen, maar dat dit parate onderdeel van de krijgsmacht altijd met alles rekening houdt.

De battlegroups werden in 2007 opgericht en leiden sindsdien een overwegend slapend bestaan. Het idee is dat de groepen binnen vijftien dagen kunnen worden uitgezonden. Een eenheid moet in staat zijn 30 tot 120 dagen zelfstandig te opereren.

quote:

Overgangsraad Libische oppositie wil niets weten van vredesvoorstel

De nationale overgangsraad van de Libische oppositie wijst een vredesvoorstel van de Afrikaanse Unie af. Deze riep op tot een onmiddellijke wapenstilstand. Maar de oppositie zegt dat het voorstel niet voorziet in haar blijvende eis: het vertrek van Moammar Gaddafi en zijn bondgenoten.

De Libische leider aanvaardde het vredesvoorstel eerder wel. De voorzitter van de overgangsraad, Mustafa Abdel Jalil, zei echter dat het initiatief “de verlangens van de Libische bevolking niet vervult” omdat er niet gesproken wordt over het vertrek van Gaddafi of zijn machtige zoons. “Er worden alleen maar politieke hervormingen worden beloofd. Wij onderhandelen niet met het bloed van onze martelaren.”

De oppositie kan rekenen op de steun van de Italiaanse minister van buitenlandse zaken Franco Frattini. Die zei vandaag in Londen dat Gaddafi wel m�et vertrekken omdat zijn misdaden uit het verleden het hoogst onwaarschijnlijk maken dat hij een staakt-het-vuren zal respecteren.

Volgens Frattini is Libi� alleen gebaat bij een vertrek van de Libische leider. Itali� heeft daarom besloten zich nadrukkelijker achter de Libische overgangsraad te scharen, zei de minister. Abdel Jalil reist vrijdag naar Rome waar hij gesprekken zal voeren met de president en de premier van Itali�. Sommigen vermoeden dat het accepteren van een staakt-het-vuren door Gadhafi slechts bedoeld is om tijd te winnen en het leger te reorganiseren en herbewapenen.

quote:

Op maandag 11 april 2011 18:48 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 00:07 schreef sunny16947 het volgende:
bencnn benwedeman
Near Benghazi saw SUVs with UK plates, communications equipment, driven by men who looked British and military.

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 02:44 schreef svann het volgende:
Tripolitanian
2 all sensitive Western media networks, don't be intimidated by Libyan rebs w beards, they say they will shave them off when Gaddafi leaves
^{35 minutes ago via web}

quote:

Op maandag 11 april 2011 16:41 schreef houda het volgende:
hallo allemaal,

Eindelijk kan ik weer op internet. Ergens in deeltje 41 kon ik niet meer op internet. Het is heel heftig geweest een paar dagen lang toen Khadaffi's troepen in Benghazi waren! Pfff wat waren wij bang. Op een dag sochtends om half 6 2 keiharde knallen.
Ik trok mijn kind uit bed en rende naar mijn man toe. (sliep in een andere kamer om het huis te bewaken tegen troepen en snipers die ons huis wilden hebben).
Het bleek dat een paar deuren verder een bom was gevallen op onze buren .
Het was echt vreselijk. Er zoijn veel dingen gebeurd maar na een paar dagen begonnen de Fransen te schieten. Daar zijn we heel dankbaar voor want we hebben de troepebn gezien die naar Benghazi onderweg waren en er al waren. We hebben een filmpje te pakken gekregen van een pro khadaffi man en die filmde met zijn telefoon een hele stoet met auto's tanks enz. En terwijl hij dat filmden waren andere troepen al in Benghazi, dus dan kan je je voorstellen hoe lang die stoet was!!

Het leek wel of ze een heel land gingen veroveren. En de order van /khadaffi was dan ook heel Benghazi plat te maken, alle mannen te vermoorden en met de vrouwen en kinderen doen wat je wilt!!!!!

Maar goed dat is gelukkig niet gebeurd. Internet lag plat en tja de rest van het verhaal is wel bekend zoals ik hier kan lezen zijn jullie zeer goed op de hoogte!

We zijn sinds gisteren naar Egypte gegaan met een paar familieleden. We hebben hier nu een appartementje gehuurd en gaan pas terug als hij weg is. Het ios voor kinderen zeer traumatisch allemaal en ze hebben veel nacht,merries. Vandaag lekker naar de zee geweest en eindelijk weer een keertje naar buiten met mijn zoopmntje zonder angst of knallen, bommen of wat dan ook.

Wel zag ik op het nieuws dat ze gisteren in Ajdabia waren, maar nu niet meer...
Pfff hoe lang gaat dit nog duren???? Hoop dat hij snel weg gaat met zijn familie!!

Ik wilde dit toch eventjes laten weten hier omdat ik zo opeens niks meer kon posten!!!

Groetjes Houda

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 02:44 schreef svann het volgende:
Tripolitanian
2 all sensitive Western media networks, don't be intimidated by Libyan rebs w beards, they say they will shave them off when Gaddafi leaves
^{35 minutes ago via web}

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 10:20 schreef HiZ het volgende:

[..]

Grappig, dit sluit een beetje aan bij wat ik net zat te denken. Een reportage over 'de jongens van Bengazi'. En dan zie je een afscheidsscene waarin volgens de vertaler twee keer God's naam wordt aangehaald. Dat klinkt zwaar religieus allemaal voor de argeloze kijker. Maar als je dan weet dat het gebruikte woord 'insallah' vaak meer de lading heeft van ' ik hoop' of 'ik wens' dan wordt het beeld veel minder eng religieus.

quote:

Libya: Nato is 'not doing enough', say France and UK_{12 April 2011 Last updated at 09:42 GMT}

Nato is not doing enough to destroy heavy weaponry used by Muammar Gaddafi's forces in Libya, the French and British foreign ministers say.

Libyan civilians remain at risk, France's Alain Juppe said, despite the ongoing Nato-led bombing campaign.

The UK's William Hague urged Nato allies to intensify military operations against the Libyan regime and called on Col Gaddafi to step down.

Libyan rebels opposing Col Gaddafi have been pushed back despite the air raids.

"Nato must play its role fully. It wanted to take the lead in operations," Mr Juppe said, calling efforts so far "not enough".

Mr Hague later echoed Mr Juppe's comments, saying: "We must maintain and intensify our efforts in Nato.

"That is why the United Kingdom has in the last weeks supplied additional aircraft capable of striking ground targets threatening the civilian population... Of course it would be welcome if other countries also did the same," he said on arrival at a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Luxembourg.

The US and other Western allies began air strikes on 19 March after UN Security Council Resolution 1973 authorised "all necessary measures" to protect civilians from Col Gaddafi's forces.

After initial sorties were flown under US command, Nato has since taken over responsibility for the campaign from Washington.

Despite this, heavy weapons are still being used to bombard the rebel-held western Libyan city of Misrata, reports say.

Libyan government forces began a renewed attack on Misrata on Monday, hours after news emerged of an African Union ceasefire plan.

There are grave concerns for the humanitarian situation in Misrata and for the safety of civilians still inside the city.

"It [Nato] must play its role today which means preventing Gaddafi from using heavy weapons to shell [civilian] populations," Alain Juppe said on Tuesday.

Ceasefire plea

Mr Juppe and Mr Hague's remarks came after the African Union (AU) proposed a ceasefire plan that was rejected by rebel leaders in Benghazi.

The plan included a call for an immediate end to hostilities, unhindered humanitarian aid, protection of foreign nationals, dialogue between opposing sides and an end to Nato air strikes.

The AU said Col Gaddafi has accepted the plan, but the rebels said it was unfeasible as it did not include a provision for the Libyan leader to step down.

On Tuesday the AU urged the rebels to reconsider, blaming the Transitional National Council (TNC) - in effect the rebels' parallel government in Benghazi - for imposing preconditions.

The AU "makes an urgent call on the TNC to fully co-operate, for the sake of Libya's higher interests, and assist in the quest for and implementation of a fair and lasting political solution", AFP news agency reported.

In clashes reported on Tuesday, rebels near the town of Ajdabiya said three of their fighters were killed overnight amid battles with pro-Gaddafi forces, Reuters news agency reported.

'Failed state' warning

Moussa Koussa - a former head of Libyan intelligence - said he could not continue in Libya's government

In the UK, Former Libyan Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa has warned against the risks of civil war and the possibility of his country becoming "a new Somalia".

Mr Koussa, the highest-profile figure to defect from Col Gaddafi's Libya, told the BBC in a prepared statement that the unity of Libya was essential to any settlement.

"I ask everybody to avoid taking Libya into civil war," Mr Koussa said. "This would lead to so much blood and Libya would be a new Somalia."

"More than that, we refuse to divide Libya. The unity of Libya is essential to any solution and settlement for Libya."

In his statement on Monday he said he had been "devoted" to his work for 30 years under Col Gaddafi, and was confident that it was serving the Libyan people.

However, he said, after recent events "things changed and I couldn't continue".

"I know that what I did to resign will cause me problems, but I'm ready to make that sacrifice for the sake of my country," he said.

He added that the solution in Libya would come from the Libyans themselves, through discussion and democratic dialogue.

Libya's Minister for Social Affairs, Ibrahim Zarouk al-Sharif, said he could not comment on Mr Koussa's statement while the former foreign minister was "captured" in a hostile country.

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 12:11 schreef doeterniettoezegiktoch het volgende:

[..]

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 12:22 schreef Renaldo het volgende:
Iemand enig idee hoe het misrata ervoor staat? hoelang gaat het verzet nog standhouden tegen de troepen van ghaddafi?

quote:

Libyan rebels trapped inside besieged city of Misurata
_{Ben Knight reported this story on Tuesday, April 12, 2011 18:28:00}

MARK COLVIN: The African Union's plan to halt Libya's civil war has collapsed. The rebels say any talk of a ceasefire is meaningless as Gaddafi troops continue their bloody siege of the city of Misurata.

Meanwhile, France's foreign minister Alain Juppe has criticised NATO for not doing enough to protect civilians in Libya. He says the alliance should focus on destroying more heavy weapons around the besieged city.

Our Middle East correspondent Ben Knight's been watching developments and joins me on the line.

Ben, there are different claims and counterclaims about Misurata. What do you think is going on there?

BEN KNIGHT: Well the same thing, Mark, that's been going on there for a matter of weeks, which is that you have rebels who are inside the city who are trying to hold onto what is the last rebel-held city in the west of the country and you have Gaddafi forces who are trying to capture it.

Now, every now and then we get some kind of eyewitness report of what's going on and on very rare occasions western and, or foreign journalists, have actually been allowed into the city to see for themselves what's going on.

What's very clear is that there is consistently fighting going on, often heavy fighting, often shelling. Consistently there are reports coming out of Misurata's hospitals and other areas that people are being killed and in fact UNICEF are now saying that in the past few weeks it's increasingly children who are being killed by shrapnel and other munitions.

I think what has surprised me is that the rebels have managed to hold on so long because although NATO have been there launching strikes to try and protect places exactly like Misurata and have been hitting some of the artillery and other hardware, it's in an urban environment and it's a difficult operation to undertake without hitting civilians which is of course something that NATO doesn't want to do.

But the rebels have held on. I think they're still saying that they control the port which is the only way that things are getting in and out of that city but they're surrounded on all other sides and the battle goes on.

MARK COLVIN: The Americans have those A-10 warthogs, so called tank killing aircraft, and they also have an absolutely lethal craft called an AC-130 which is a side-firing aircraft. It goes quite slowly but it fires machine guns at very, very rapid rate.

These things were supposed to be the thing that sort of tilted the balance, if you like. Are the Americans not really in there? Are they leaving it to the British and French?

BEN KNIGHT: I couldn't talk to you about that but what I can say is that I get the sense that there is an enormous disappointment that the rebels themselves have not been able to pick up the proverbial ball and run with it.

There was an expectation, I think, that once American or NATO forces went in there and started bombing the Gaddafi tanks that the rebels would then be able to take it for themselves; that you know that would tip the balance in their favour and it would all be over. And clearly that hasn't happened.

There's been a massive overestimation of the abilities of the rebel force and now day after day, week after week, we're seeing that they really have failed to get themselves organised or strategised in any meaningful way and that this is not going to be won on the battlefield.

MARK COLVIN: Which to get to Misurata they were going to have to go through Sirte, weren't they? I mean Misurata is actually not that far from Tripoli, so in a way it's even more surprising that the Gaddafi forces hadn't been able to take it.

BEN KNIGHT: But both sides have been unable to progress any further. I mean what we've seen over the past few days is that the Gaddafi forces have become a lot more like a modern professional army, well at least to the extent that they're using basic military tactics which just weren't in evidence in the early part of this fighting. The rebels aren't even close to doing that and of course they're still underpowered.

But as far as the Americans putting their hardware into this conflict, you'd see in the United States at the moment that president Obama is starting to come under real pressure, real scrutiny over having got himself into what is essentially a third war involving United States forces in a Muslim country.

MARK COLVIN: And one which doesn't seem to be coming to an end. Indeed, Ben Knight thank you very much indeed.

Ben Knight, our Middle-East correspondent.

quote:

Mogelijk Nederlandse troepen naar Misurata
_{Uitgegeven: 11 april 2011 18:59
Laatst gewijzigd: 11 april 2011 21:31}

AMSTERDAM - Mogelijk gaat Nederland deelnemen aan een humanitair-militaire missie in Libi�. Dat schrijft NRC Handelsblad maandag.
� AFP

Een woordvoerder van het ministerie van Buitenlandse Zaken laat weten dat dit nog niet aan de orde is, omdat er nog geen verzoek ligt van de Verenigde Naties.

Als de VN de Europese Unie verzoekt om burgers in de zwaar belegerde stad in het westen van Libi� te hulp te schieten, dan zou dit gedaan moeten worden door de Europese snelle interventiemacht.

Nederland geeft de eerste helft van dit jaar leiding aan een van de twee battlegroups waaruit die interventiemacht bestaat. Zo'n 1200 Nederlandse militairen zijn beschikbaar.

Ministers
De Europese ministers van buitenlandse zaken vergaderen dinsdag in Luxemburg over de missie in Libi�.

Een humanitair-militaire missie houdt niet in dat grondtroepen zich in het conflict gaan mengen. Wel moet het kabinet voordat Nederland kan meedoen een zogeheten artikel 100-brief naar de Kamer sturen.

Kaddafi
Troepen van Muammar Kaddafi hebben maandag met zware artillerie woonwijken in het centrum van Misurata onder vuur genomen.

Dit berichtten ooggetuigen uit de belegerde stad, 200 kilometer ten oosten van de hoofdstad Tripoli. Het regime heeft ondertussen gewaarschuwd dat er verzet zal worden geboden tegen buitenlands ingrijpen.

Opstand
Half februari is in het noordoosten een opstand uitgebroken tegen het bewind van 'Gids van de Revolutie' Kaddafi, die sinds 1969 regeert. De opstand in de regio Cyrenaica breidde zich uit naar het westen van het land.

Het regime herstelde zich in maart en vecht zich een weg terug naar het oosten. Misurata is een belegerde havenstad in de noordwestelijke regio Tripolitania.

De Libische tv meldde maandagavond westerse luchtaanvallen op de oasis al-Jufrah, 475 kilometer ten zuidoosten van Tripoli.

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 12:50 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:

[..]

Denk dat het ook te maken heeft met bar slechte onderlinge communicatie NATO <-> oppositie. Blijkt maar weer toen ze die rebellentank kapotschoten, en door dat rebellen niet weten dat het onverstandig is om met luchtafweer vreugdeschoten te lossen

quote:

(AJE) 1:44pm

Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel Hamid with the latest on the battle for Misurata:

Misurata civilians under siege

quote:

(AJE)
1:25pm
Rebels are defending the western gates of Ajdabiya as forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi continue to attack their positions.

Explosions could be seen less than 1.5km from the western gates as Gadhafi's forces shelled rebel lines. Rebels believe Gadhafi's forces could attack the western entrance to Ajdabiya from Brega, currently in government hands.

2:02pm
Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi bombarded the western entrance to the rebel-held town of Ajdabiyah in eastern Libya, a Reuters witness reported. The witness reported about eight blasts, apparently from artillery, around the western entrance. Ajdabiyah, which sits on a junction of routes that lead into the rebel-held east, has been a focus of fierce battles in the past two months

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 12:22 schreef Renaldo het volgende:
Iemand enig idee hoe het misrata ervoor staat? hoelang gaat het verzet nog standhouden tegen de troepen van ghaddafi?

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 15:15 schreef svann het volgende:

[..]

Deze website geeft de beste informatie over Misrata en andere bedreigde steden in west Libi�.
Overall trouwens erg goed ge�nformeerd.

http://www.libyafeb17.com/

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 13:02 schreef doeterniettoezegiktoch het volgende:

[..]

sorry krijg nergens iets gevonden over hoe het nu in Misrata eraan toe gaat , las wel dat gisteren Gadaffi weer flink heeft lopen bombarderen daar .. ( http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/(...)ijken-Misurata.dhtml )

verder kom ik alleen ff dit tegen

[..]

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 12:18 schreef doeterniettoezegiktoch het volgende:
Libya crisis mapped 11 april

[ afbeelding ]

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 15:15 schreef svann het volgende:

[..]

Deze website geeft de beste informatie over Misrata en andere bedreigde steden in west Libi�.
Overall trouwens erg goed ge�nformeerd.

http://www.libyafeb17.com/

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 17:56 schreef Renaldo het volgende:

[..]

thanks, staat in de favorieten. Mainstream media bericht steeds minder en minder terwijl het een full on burgeroorlog is. Dit topic levert meer info, bedankt iedereen die hier aan bij draagt.

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 15:12 schreef doeterniettoezegiktoch het volgende:
en Ajdabiya ;

[..]

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 11:20 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
Is er al duidelijkheid over inzet van grondtroepen

en in hemelsnaam, waarom

De NAVO zijn pussies die niet op zogenaamde burgers durven te schieten; burgers die zich willens en wetens aan kant scharen van de gewapende onderdrukkers. Per direct afknallen zeg ik je, zolang G's mensen, de zogenaamde burgers, in een cordon om een tank of artilleriestelling gaan staan om die te beschermen. Die mensen moet je sowieso uitroeien, inclusief de hele familie van G, wil je de steun aan zo'n regime breken en in de toekomst onmogelijk maken om terug te keren.

quote:

AJE 6:05pm

More on that last line: Ali Al Isawi, of Libya's National Transitional Council, tells reporters at an EU meeting in Luxembourg:

We have now about 10,000 killed by Gaddafi soldiers, we have about 20,000 persons missing and about 30,000 injured - 7,000 of them seriously injured with their lives endangered.

We want more efforts regarding protection of civilians against this aggression.

quote:

5:35pm

Moussa Koussa, Gaddafi's former foreign minister and spy chief, is on his way to Qatar to meet officials from the Libyan Transitional National Council ahead of an international summit in Doha tomorrow.

He is not expected to participate in the meeting of the Libyan Contact Group, but will hol meetings on the sidelines, it is understood.

gepikt van

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 18:42 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

.

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 12:50 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:

[..]

Denk dat het ook te maken heeft met bar slechte onderlinge communicatie NATO <-> oppositie. Blijkt maar weer toen ze die rebellentank kapotschoten, en door dat rebellen niet weten dat het onverstandig is om met luchtafweer vreugdeschoten te lossen

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 20:05 schreef houda het volgende:

[..]

Sorry hier moet ik even op reageren. Het klopt dat ze vaak kogels verspillen door uit vreugde te schieten (irriteer ik me mateloos aan) maar deze keer was het anders.
Er zat een undercover pro Khadaffi tussen de rebellen die met dit wapen schoot en snel wegrenden naar de kant van Khadaffi. Ook heeft hij een speciaal soort wapen in de lucht geschoten zodat de pro's precies wisten waar hij zat. Ook heeft hij autobanden in brand gestoken om diezelfde reden....

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 20:05 schreef houda het volgende:

[..]

Sorry hier moet ik even op reageren. Het klopt dat ze vaak kogels verspillen door uit vreugde te schieten (irriteer ik me mateloos aan) maar deze keer was het anders.
Er zat een undercover pro Khadaffi tussen de rebellen die met dit wapen schoot en snel wegrenden naar de kant van Khadaffi. Ook heeft hij een speciaal soort wapen in de lucht geschoten zodat de pro's precies wisten waar hij zat. Ook heeft hij autobanden in brand gestoken om diezelfde reden....

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 20:49 schreef houda het volgende:
Ja maar denk dat dit niet echt het nieuws in komt dan waarschijnlijjk....

We hebvben trouwens besloten dat mijn zoontje en ik as donderdag terug naar nederland vliegen
mijn man gaat terug naar libie om de boel te bewaken daar...

Ik heb een retourticket voor een jaar dus heb even de tijd haha

quote:

Telegraph - By Ben Farmer, Misurata 9:00PM BST 12 Apr 2011
Tripoli Street was two months ago the bustling heart of Misurata and now is only a wasteland of blasted buildings, snipers and death.
To venture where shoppers once browsed is to invite a sudden bullet from one of the Gaddafi regime marksmen crouched in office blocks along the road.

The only cars on the main artery through Libya's third biggest city are burned and twisted, while the shops are sprayed with shrapnel and gutted by fire.

This is what Col Muammar Gaddafi meant when he gave a speech at the start of the uprising threatening to root out his opponents "alleyway by alleyway, room by room".

Except, after 50 days of defiance, on Tripoli Street the tables have turned.

Emboldened by Nato air strikes, the rebels have made progress clearing regime soldiers and mercenaries from Misurata's two-mile-long main thoroughfare. Verder.

quote:

Bron: ap, dpa/afp - Auteur: edm
De troepen van de Libische leider Moammar Kadhafi hebben dinsdag opnieuw de westelijke stad Misrata onder vuur genomen. Misrata is de enige stad in het westen van Libi� die nog deels in handen is van de rebellen.

De aanvallen op Misrata houden nu al weken aan en hebben hun tol ge�ist onder de bevolking. Tientallen mensen zijn gedood, de overige bewoners zijn doodsbang en er is een tekort aan voedsel en medicijnen.

'Met het bereik van de oorlogsmachines van Kadhafi is geen enkele plek in Misrata veilig', zei een gezondheidswerker in Misrata. Volgens hem zijn maandag zes mensen gedood. Vandaag viel nog een dodelijk slachtoffer. Volgens internationale organisaties wordt een humanitaire ramp verwacht in Misrata.

Ook de door de rebellen gecontroleerde stad Ajdabiyah is vandaag weer door raketten van het Libische leger getroffen. Vanaf Ajdabiyah ligt de weg open naar de oostelijke stad Benghazi, het hoofdkwartier van de Libische oppositie. Verder.

معجزة الله في ليبيا

quote:

There are two main characters: The first is unnamed (but his image would evolve into Knox from Fox in Socks), the second is named Sam. Throughout the book, Sam tries to encourage the first unnamed character to try green eggs and ham, though he meets with little success. The unnamed character refuses to taste the dish, insisting that he would not like it. Sam then goes through an assortment of locations (house, car, tree, train, box, boat) and dining partners (fox, goat, mouse) trying to persuade the unnamed character to eat. The conclusion of the tale occurs when the unnamed character, standing in shallow water after a boat sinks, surrounded by various people and beasts, finally gives in and tries the green eggs and ham on the condition that Sam leaves him alone.

quote:

Op woensdag 13 april 2011 00:05 schreef Ulpianus het volgende:

معجزة الله في ليبيا

Libische staatsTV laat een groen ei zien, wat een teken moet zijn van overwinning.

Bij mij komt Dr Streuss naar boven, Green eggs & Ham:

[..]

^100

British Civilians For Peace entering Libya

quote:

British Civilians for Peace update #2, Mon April 11 2011

British Peace Mission Arrives in Libya; Met By Angry and then Welcoming Refugees in Libya

The Civilians for Peace delegation arrived in Tripoli late last night after crossing the Tunisian land border of Ras Ejder.

There was a moment of panic when the delegations vehicles were attacked with bricks and clubs by a mob of refugee migrant workers who had fled Libya during the fighting and have been temporarily housed in swarming tent villages just inside the Tunisian border. The vehicles retreated to the safety of Tunisian military positions until the migrant workers could be notified that the vehicles contained delegates of a humanitarian mission for peace, whereupon the displaced workers welcomed and actively encouraged the mission on it's way.

The thousands of migrant workers now living in these squalid, makeshift camps are the residual victims in this conflict. Refugees of a war that is not their own, they now find themselves neglected by their countries of origin and pariahs in the desert of no mans land.

As the mission raced to Tripoli it passed through towns such as Zawara and Zawia where the buildings bore the brutal scars of war, shops reduced to rubble and residential buildings sprayed with the familiar polker dot calling card of automatic gunfire. After passing checkpoint after checkpoint manned by heavily armed soldiers the delegation finally made it to Tripoli at just after Midnight.

The African Union mediators, headed by South African President Jacob Zuma, are also in the capital. There seems to be no NATO air strikes during the African Union's mission.

quote:

Op woensdag 13 april 2011 00:30 schreef svann het volgende:
Dus als het eiwit van een gekookt ei vlekkerig groen uitslaat heb je geluk?
Uhmm...

 

En wat moeten british civilians in Tripoli? Merkwaardig.
Kunnen die daar als informeel initiatief wat uitrichten of ondermijnen ze de offici�le onderhandelingen?

quote:

Gizmodo - Brian Lam - Apr 13, 2011 3:00 AM
When Colonel Gadhafi seized control of the internet and jammed cellular networks, it left 2 million Libyans without secure wireless communication to each other or the world. It also caused mayhem for the rebels, who were left coordinating their battle fronts with only hand signals, "a throw-back that proved disastrous," says the WSJ.

Then, Ousama Abushagur, a Libyan telecom executive with American roots, came up with a plan to take back control of the airwaves by "hiving off" part of the network, around the central control in Tripoli, where Gadhafi and his intelligence officers could easily control and eavesdrop any calls.

Abushagur's plan was not simple. For starters it required millions of dollars in equipment, which he managed to acquire with the help of the U.A.E and Qatar. It also needed to move that equipment into Libya, along with seven engineers and body guards. After "fusing" the new equipment into the network, they routed calls through a satellite uplink provided by Etisalat, a U.A.E carrier.

A test call, placed by Abushagur to his wife, happened on April 2nd. Since then, the network, which they've named "Free Libyana" has been connecting the rebels and Libyans to each other and the world. [WSJ]

quote:

news24.com - 2011-04-12
London - Captured rebel Libyan fighters have been found shot in the head with their hands tied behind their backs, Amnesty International said on Tuesday, adding it had strong evidence of other human rights abuses.

Forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi had also deliberately killed unarmed protesters and attacked civilians fleeing fighting, Amnesty said, citing evidence gathered by its delegates in eastern Libya over the past six weeks.

The rights group said Gaddafi's troops appeared to have executed captured rebel fighters close to the town of Ajdabiyah.

Its researchers in eastern Libya had in recent days seen the bodies of two opposition fighters who had been shot in the back of the head after their hands had been bound behind their backs.

Amnesty said it had received credible reports of four similar cases, where bodies of captured fighters were reportedly found with their hands tied behind their backs and multiple gunshot wounds to the upper parts of their bodies.

"The circumstances of these killings strongly suggest that they were carried out by the forces loyal to Colonel Gaddafi," said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty International's director for the Middle East and North Africa.

"The deliberate killing of captured fighters is a war crime. All those responsible for such crimes - those who ordered or sanctioned them as well as those who carried them out - must be left in no doubt that they will be held fully accountable."

Libya has plunged into civil war, with Gaddafi controlling the capital Tripoli and rebels seeking to end his 41 years in power running the eastern city of Benghazi. Nato airstrikes aimed at protecting civilians have failed to end a stalemate.

quote:

Op woensdag 13 april 2011 13:10 schreef MangoTree het volgende:
Hier het originele verhaal over het telefoonnetwerk (Wall Street Journal)

Rebels Hijack Gadhafi's Phone Network
^{A Group of Expatriate Executives and Engineers Furtively Restore Telecommunications for the Libyan Opposition}

[ afbeelding ]

quote:

Op woensdag 13 april 2011 12:00 schreef MangoTree het volgende:

John Irvine Misrata

^{ITN Correspondent John Irvine and Cameraman Sean Swan in Misrata, 12 April 2011}

Aangrijpend verslag

quote:

http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/(...)-libie-blijft-nodig/

De coalitielanden moeten Gaddafi onder sterke militaire druk blijven zetten om hem tot aftreden te bewegen. Dat zei de Franse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Alain Juppe vanmiddag na overleg met zijn collega’s in Qatar.

Juppe stelde in hoofdstad Doha dat het doel van de militaire operaties in Libi� zeer duidelijk is. “Gaddafi moet opstappen, maar we hebben een politieke oplossing nodig”, aldus de minister. Hij zei dat de coalitielanden nog in gesprek zijn over de vraag of het opstappen van Gaddafi een voorwaarde moet zijn voor onderhandelingen tussen hem en de opstandelingen.

De ministers van Buitenlandse Zaken van de coalitielanden gaven eerder vanmiddag al een gezamenlijke verklaring uit waarin zij zeggen de opstandelingen financieel te willen steunen.
De opstandelingen, ook vertegenwoordigd op de top in Doha, vroegen de Verenigde Staten op hun beurt om weer een grotere militaire rol in Libi� op zich te nemen. “Toen de Amerikanen meer betrokken waren was de missie meer in beweging en werden burgers beter beschermd”, aldus opstandelingenwoordvoerder Mahmoud Shamman.

De opstandelingen vroegen de NAVO vanmiddag het aantal luchtaanvallen op troepen en doelen van Gaddafi te intensiveren. Shamman stelde dat de militaire organisatie nu “zeer traag” op Gaddafi’s aanvallen op burgers reageert. De sjeik van Qatar, gastheer van de top in Doha, leek te sympathiseren met de wens van de opstandelingen. “Het is tijd om het Libische volk te verdedigen en ze in staat te stellen zichzelf te verdedigen”, aldus Tamim Bin Hamad Al-Thani.

quote:

Op woensdag 13 april 2011 17:02 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

Dat zijn journalisten.

quote:

_{irishtimes.com - Last Updated: Wednesday, April 13, 2011, 18:02}
Libyan rebels urge US to reassert role in Nato action
Libya's rebels have urged the US military to reassert a stronger role in the Nato-led air campaign against Muammar Gadafy's regime.

The call came after Britain and France pressured other Nato members to contribute militarily to the organisation's operation in Libya.

Qatar's crown prince told international envoys at the "contact group" meeting in Doha it was time to help the uprising tip the scales in favour of the rebels.

The appeals reflected the urgent tone of the meetings among the UN secretary general and other top Western and Arab envoys as they gathered in Qatar's capital to discuss ways to end the Libyan crisis.

While peace efforts remain the top objective, there also appears to be a shift toward trying to boost the rebels' firepower to protect their territory from government offensives. One proposal noted by Italy - Libya's former colonial ruler - calls for allies to provide defensive weapons.

There is a divergence of opinions among the 28 members of the Nato alliance. Germany, Turkey and Poland opposed the operation in Libya and are not involved in the air campaign.

Italy has said its aircraft will not open fire, the Dutch are enforcing the no-fly zone but may not bomb ground targets, and non-Nato Swedish planes may only open fire in self-defence while patrolling the no-fly zone.

Qatar's crown prince said it was a "race against time" to give Col Gadafy's outgunned opponents the tools to fight.

"It is time to help the Libyan people defend themselves, and to defend the Libyan people," said Sheik Tamim Bin Hamad Al-Thani, whose nation is one of the few Arab states contributing to the Nato-led air campaign in Libya and helped the rebels sell oil under their control. "And what are the rebels except civilians who have taken up arms to defend themselves in a difficult situation and (who fight) an uneven battle?"

Rebel spokesman Mahmoud Shamman said the anti-Gadafy forces will not bend on their demands that any peace proposal require the Libyan leader Col Gadafy and his inner circle to leave the country. The rebel conditions for Col Gadafy's removal effectively killed a ceasefire bid by the African Union this week.

Mr Shammam also urged Nato to step up its air campaign to hit pro-Gadafy forces in efforts to protect civilians and appealed for a greater role by the United States, which turned over operations to Nato last month. "When the Americans were involved the mission was very active and it was more leaning toward protecting the civilians," he said. "Nato is very slow responding to these attacks on the civilians. We'd like to see more work toward protecting the civilians,"

His comments echoed calls by French foreign minister Alain Juppe and others after government forces shelled the rebel-held city of Misrata in western Libya.

The one-day conference that includes Britain's foreign secretary William Hague, US State Department envoy William J Burns and UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon.

It also was expected to be the first high-profile forum for Col Gadafy's former foreign minister, Moussa Koussa, who defected to Britain last month. But Mr Koussa was absent from the main discussions and rebel officials insisted he has no role in their movement.

Qatar is one of the few Arab countries providing warplanes to the Nato air campaign and has helped Libyan rebels sell oil to buy weapons and supplies.

An Italian foreign ministry spokesman said allies may consider providing "defensive weapons" and equipment to rebels. "The discussion of arms is certainly on the table," he said. "We are not talking about offensive arms ... Every country will decide. It is a political decision."

This afternoon, Nato said it hit munitions bunkers in an airstrike just outside the capital Tripoli. Nato said it conducted airstrikes yesterday on an ammunition depot in Sirte on Libya's central coast and destroyed 12 tanks near the western town of Zintan, about 120 kmsouthwest of Tripoli.

Libyan opposition spokesman Ali al-Issawi said that Col Gadafy's soldiers have killed about 10,000 people throughout the country and injured 30,000 others, with 7,000 of the injured facing life-threatening wounds.

He said an additional 20,000 people were missing and suspected of being in Col Gadafy's prisons.

There was no way to independently verify his claims, and the numbers are far higher than rights groups and foreign diplomats have estimated.

Qatar, meanwhile, is helping with a vital fuel link for the rebels. Qatar said it oversaw last week's sale of more than $100 million in crude oil from rebel-held areas, and has delivered four shipments of fuel to Benghazi.

Talks on Libya shift to Cairo tomorrow at the Arab League headquarters.

Mr Ban is expected to join others, including Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa, African Union commission chairman Jean Ping and the European Union's foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton. They are expected to discuss a Turkish peace initiative.

quote:

AJE 6:15pm

So, a quick update on what happened in today's Libya Contact Group meeting in Doha.

Here are the highlights of the final communique:

Particpants agreed:

- A political solution is the only way to bring lasting peace to Libya and reaffirmed their strong commitment to the sovereignty, indpendence, territorial integrity and national unity of libya

- United in believing that Gaddafi's continued presence would treaten any resolution of the crisis

- Participants agreed the need to monitor any potential threat from "extremist elements" who could seek to take advantage of the situation in Libya

- Participants noted that gaddafi's regime was weakening as his followers left him

- Participants support eforts of the UN to help the Libyan people develop a political transition plan, consitutional and electoral processes.

- Participants agreed to continue to provide support to the opposition including material support and humanitarian aid.

- Participants agree that a temporary financial mechanism could provide method for the inc and intl community to manage revenue to assist with the short term financial requirement and structural need in libya

- Participants said approx 3.6million people could need humanitarian assistance.

quote:

Op woensdag 13 april 2011 19:15 schreef MangoTree het volgende:

[..]

Die kinderen bedoel ik natuurlijk.

SPOILER

En dan bedoel ik niet de journo's in Tripoli, die kunnen er ook niets aan doen dat ze zo erg aan de leiband liggen. Die hebben gewoon een hele vervelende kutbaan op het moment, maar hun rol is ook noodzakelijk.

quote:

Op woensdag 13 april 2011 17:02 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

Dat zijn journalisten.

quote:

Great Manmade River
Searching for oil beneath the sand the Libyans have instead discovered in 1953 huge fresh water reserves in various parts of the country, some of which are just 100 meters below the surface. The largest being the Kufra Basin, which has an estimated groundwater storage capacity of 20,000 cubic kilometres

There are a total of 4071 kilometres of pipelines in the project:

* 1600km of pipelines in Sarir/Sirt - Tazerbo-Benghazi system
* 1277km of pipelines in Hasouna-Jeffara system
* 190km of pipelines in Assdada-Ajdabiya system
* 383km of pipelines in Tazerbo-kufra system
* 621km of pipelines in Ghdames-Zuwarah system.

quote:

Vrijdag, 25 maart 2011
Het Great Man-made River Project (GMRP) in Libi� is het grootste ondergrondse netwerk van pijpleidingen en aquaducten ter wereld. Het bestaat uit 1.300 waterputten waarvan de meeste meer dan 500 meter diep zijn en voorziet onder andere de steden Tripoli, Benghazi en Sirt elke dag van vers water.

Muammar al-Gaddafi heeft het ooit omschreven als het achtste wereldwonder.

Het water bevindt zich al meer dan 40.000 jaar in een waterhoudende laag onder het zand. De mensen noemen het fossiel water.

De enorme waterreserves van Libi� zijn voor de meeste mensen in het Westen vrijwel onbekend. Intervenieert het Westen in Libi� voor olie? Wellicht. Maar de watervoorraad is veel zeldzamer en waardevoller. Verder.

quote:

Libyan rebels receive boost of support from international community

Arab world and western ministers issued unanimous call for Gaddafi to step down, saying regime had 'lost all legitimacy'

Muammar Gaddafi's regime has "lost all legitimacy" and he must leave power to allow the Libyan people to determine their own future, the international community warned as it boosted support for opposition forces.

After three weeks of Nato-led air strikes, Arab and western ministers meeting in Qatar closed ranks to issue a first unanimous call for Gaddafi to step down, boasting that they were "united and firm in their resolve" about the outcome of the crisis – or, at least, more than they were at the London conference late last month.

But new signs emerged of disagreements over whether UN resolutions allowed the delivery of weapons to the Libyan rebels, with Qatar pushing hard on this highly sensitive issue.

William Hague, the foreign secretary, and Qatar's prime minister, Hamad bin Jassim, chaired a first session of the Libya "contact group" – comprising an unwieldy 21 countries and six international organisations – to explore ways out of the impasse between regime and opposition.

Britain's latest decision – to supply non-lethal body armour to the rebels – was due to be announced by David Cameron before a meeting with Nicolas Sarkozy in Paris. Under the plan 1,000 flak jackets from Ministry of Defence stores will be sent to opposition forces.

Hague, however, sounded ambiguous about whether weapons could legally be supplied. "We understand the resolutions to mean that the arms embargo applies to the whole of Libya," the foreign secretary said. "But in certain circumstances it is possible, consistent with those resolutions, to provide people with the means to defend the civilian population." Other countries, he added, "will interpret the resolution in their own way". Franco Frattini, Italy's foreign minister, went further. "Either we make it possible for these people to defend themselves or we withdraw our claims of support," he said.

Hamad admitted that there were differences of interpretation but added: "Qatar will make things available for the Libyan people to defend themselves."

But Belgium insisted it would not countenance any move to arm the rebels.

Plans for a "temporary financial mechanism" to channel cash to the Benghazi-based opposition were also discussed. Aid to eastern Libya would need to be consistent with UN sanctions, diplomats warned. But the ability to supply basic services would bolster the position and credibility of the Interim National Council. Disagreements surfaced over an Italian call to use frozen Libyan state assets to help the rebels.

Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general, highlighted the scale of the crisis when he told delegates that up to 3.6 million Libyans could need humanitarian assistance.

Hague said that Nato's "decisive action" had saved thousands of lives. But there were fresh signs of divisions over the military campaign, with the UK and France, which have conducted the bulk of the attack missions, pressing Italy and Belgium to take part in targeting Libyan forces. "We have sent more ground strike aircraft in order to protect civilians," Hague said. "We do look to other countries to do the same."

The Libyan opposition also urged Nato to do more. "When the Americans were involved the mission was very active and it leant more toward protecting civilians," said spokesman Mahmoud Shammam. Opposition officials were leaving later for the US to lobby the Obama administration.

Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Nato's secretary general, defended the alliance's record after its aircraft flew more than 2,000 sorties. But since its mandate was to protect civilians it had to be cautious. "We do our utmost to strike the right balance," Rasmussen said.

Allied strategy remains a combination of military pressure and hope that Gaddafi will suffer further damaging defections. "The aim is very clear," said France's foreign minister, Alain Jupp�. "We must keep up a strong and robust military pressure to convince Gaddafi there is no way out."

International efforts on Libya shift to Cairo on Thursday when the UN's Ban joins the Arab League secretary general Amr Moussa, African Union commission chairman Jean Ping and the EU's foreign policy chief, Lady Ashton. That meeting is expected to discuss a Turkish "roadmap" for peace under which Gaddafi's forces would withdraw from besieged cities such as Misrata. But that would evidently require the agreement of the government in Tripoli.

quote:

donderdag 14 april 2011 | 08:23
(Novum/AP) - AJDABIYA - De NAVO heeft woensdag luchtaanvallen uitgevoerd op militaire doelen van de Libische leider Moammar Gadhafi. Zo werd zeker een munitiebunker van Gadhafi's troepen aan de rand van de hoofdstad Tripoli gebombardeerd. Dit heeft een NAVO-zegsman verklaard.

Het Libische staatspersbureau JANA meldde dat ook doelen in Misrata, Sirte en Aziziyah door NAVO-gevechtstoestellen waren aangevallen. Volgens JANA trof de luchtaanval op doelen in Misrata een woonwijk. Een plaatselijke activist zei dat de bewoners van de wijk weken geleden hun huizen hadden verlaten toen troepen van Gadhafi de wijk binnenvielen. Verder.

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 april 2011 19:28 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
Het is wat cru uitgedrukt ja.

Ter verduidelijking. Ik ben tegen een grondoffensief, en voor intensievere bombardementen. Op voorwaarde dat ze eerste de communicatie wat opkrikken.

quote:

Op woensdag 13 april 2011 18:18 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

De coalitielanden moeten Gaddafi onder sterke militaire druk blijven zetten om hem tot aftreden te bewegen. Dat zei de Franse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Alain Juppe vanmiddag na overleg met zijn collega’s in Qatar.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 11:46 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

O, goh. En ik maar denken dat dit gewoon een humanitaire interventie was. Hm, wie had ooit -ooi!- kunnen bedenken dat zoiets escaleert. Goh. Hm. Tsjoh.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 12:20 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

Dat is het toch? Het is alleen maar humaan om de wereld van Ghaddafi te verlossen.

quote:

De opstandeling zei dat 'de NAVO niets heeft gedaan om de burgers te beschermen' tijdens de urenlange aanval van de Gadhafi-getrouwen.

quote:

Top in Egypte over toekomst Libi� levert weinig op
14/04/11, 14u52

dm UPDATE Vertegenwoordigers van de internationale gemeenschap zijn vandaag in de Egyptische hoofdstad Ca�ro bijeengekomen om te zoeken naar een politieke oplossing voor de burgeroorlog in Libi�. De bijeenkomst in het kantoor van de Arabische Liga is afgelopen, maar heeft weinig opgeleverd
De deelnemers aan de bijeenkomst bleken het op twee punten met elkaar eens: in Libi� moet een wapenstilstand komen en er moeten voorbereidingen worden getroffen om tot een politieke oplossing van het conflict te komen. Concrete afspraken werden echter niet gemaakt.

Grote zorgen
"We zijn hier omdat we ons grote zorgen maken over de crisis in Libi�", zei secretaris-generaal Amr Moussa van de Arabische Liga aan het begin van de conferentie. "Er is daar een humanitaire ramp gaande."

Op de bijeenkomst in Ca�ro zijn naast de Arabische Liga onder anderen secretaris-generaal Ban Ki-moon van de VN, EU-buitenlandchef Catherine Ashton en vertegenwoordigers van de Afrikaanse Unie aanwezig.

Meningsverschillen
Moussa sprak nochtans de hoop uit dat de bijeenkomst net zo effectief zou zijn als de bijeenkomst van de internationale contactgroep voor Libi� gisteren in de Qatarse hoofdstad Doha. De deelnemers, onder wie de Verenigde Staten, Groot-Brittanni� en Frankrijk, riepen de Libische leider Mouammar Kadhafi gezamenlijk op te vertrekken.

De ontmoeting in Doha bracht verder echter vooral meningsverschillen aan het licht. Zo vinden Frankrijk en Groot-Brittanni� dat te veel NAVO-bondgenoten zich beperken tot patrouilles ter controle van het vliegverbod boven Libi�. Zij zouden graag zien dat meer landen hun luchtmacht inzetten om gronddoelen te bestoken, zoals de grondtroepen van kolonel Kaddafi die met zware wapens op burgers schieten. (anp/tvl)

quote:

dm UPDATE "Libische rebellen kregen antitankraketten van Qatar"
Qatar heeft antitankraketten geleverd aan de rebellen in de stad Benghazi. Het gaat om Milan-raketten van Franse makelij. Dat zegt de Libische viceminister van Buitenlandse Zaken Khaled Kaaim (foto).
Qatar en Frankrijk maken deel uit van de internationale coalitie die de militaire interventie leidt in Libi�.

De raketten zouden zijn geleverd aan opstandelingen in het rebellenbolwerk Benghazi, in het oosten van Libi�. Volgens Kaim zijn ook twintig Qatarezen in de stad om de rebellen te trainen.

De Golfstaat Qatar steunt de rebellen openlijk. Het is een van de Arabische landen in de internationale coalitie die de Libische burgers vanuit de lucht probeert te beschermen tegen aanvallen van Kadhafi.

Qatar pleitte er gisteren nog voor om de Libische rebellen in staat te stellen zich te verdedigen. Het land deed dat op een internationale conferentie over Libi� in de eigen hoofdstad Doha. Zo kan Libi� "beslissen over zijn eigen toekomst", aldus kroonprins Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani.

Behalve Qatar spraken ook Itali�, de Verenigde Staten en Groot-Brittanni� zich uit voor bewapening van de opstandelingen. (afp/sam)

quote:

12:37 Reuters In Misrata, the death toll of this mornings attack with Grad rockets has risen to 23, including 3 Egyptians. Dozens are wounded. Those killed are civilians and most of them are women and children, a spokesman told Reuters.

10:37 Reuters Gaddafis forces struck Misrata with dozens of Grad rockets on Thursday, killing eight people according to an opposition spokesman. They fired Grads at a residential area called Kasr Ahmad near the port this morning. They fired at least 80 rockets on that area. So far we have eight martyrs and 20 wounded, Abdelbasset Abu Mzereiq told Reuters by telephone..

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 13:27 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Humaner zou zijn om een staakt-het-vuren af te kondigen, maar dat willen de opstandelingen niet. Wat een wespennest, waar we ons in hebben begeven.

quote:

Nato commander of Libya mission pleads for specialised fighter jets

Admiral James Stavridis says precision ground-attack jets would help minimise civilian casualties

The Nato commander in charge of the operation in Libya has issued a plea for more specialised fighter jets to join the operation if civilian casualties are to be minimised.

At a meeting of Nato foreign ministers in Berlin, Admiral James Stavridis asked for more "precision fighter ground-attack aircrafts" which could best identify land targets, said Anders Fogh Rasmussen, the Nato secretary general.

The US military has the world's most sophisticated warplanes, but Rasmussen insisted Stavridis had not singled out the Americans when making his plea. After its lead role in Iraq and Afghanistan, the US has taken a back seat in the Libyan operation, leaving Britain and France to lead the charge against Muammar Gaddafi.

The US ended strike missions earlier this month, depriving Nato of warplanes such as A-10 Warthogs and AC-130 gunships, which can be more accurate than higher-flying jet fighters for ground-attack missions.

Rasmussen said he was confident more member countries would "step up to the plate" but admitted he had "no specific pledges" following the first meeting of the two-day summit.

He said he had "heard statements which give me hope" that by the time the ministers fly home on Friday, more countries will have increased their commitment to the Libyan operation.

He dismissed any notions of a schism between Nato's 28 members following the decision of many countries, including Germany and Turkey, not to take part in the operation other than on a humanitarian level. In a briefing earlier, Spanish officials said they would not take part in any ground attack.

Rasmussen insisted the foreign ministers had a shared goal. "We are committed to provide all necessary resources and maximum operational flexibility within our mandate. A high operational tempo against legitimate targets will be maintained and we will exert this pressure for as long as necessary," he told a press conference at Germany's foreign ministry.

He said the group had agreed the mission would continue until it achieved its three objectives, which were:

• All attacks and threats of attack against civilians and civilian-populated areas have ended.

• The regime has verifiably withdrawn to bases all military forces, including snipers, mercenaries and other paramilitary forces, including from all populated areas they have forcibly entered, occupied or besieged, throughout all of Libya, including Ajdabiya, Brega, Jadu, al-Jebal al-Gharbiya, Kikla, Misrata, Nalut, Ras Lanuf, Yefrin, Zawiya, Zintan and Zuara.

• The regime must permit immediate, full, safe and unhindered humanitarian access to all the people in Libya in need of assistance.

In the three weeks of the mission, Nato planes have flown over Libya 2,000 times, including 900 attack sorties, said Rasmussen, who reiterated that Nato believed that "a transparent political solution" was "the only way to bring an end to the crisis and build lasting peace in Libya and a better future for the Libyan people".

The alliance agrees that Gaddafi must be ousted, but it has previously been at odds on how to proceed. One proposal from Italy – Libya's former colonial ruler – calls for the western powers to provide defensive weapons to rebels. In Berlin, France's foreign minister, Alain Jupp�, said he did not share the Italian view.

France has said Nato is not doing enough, and was pushing other countries at the meeting to work on "more robust, more efficient, more rapid actions", according to the French foreign ministry spokesman Bernard Valero in Paris.

The rebels have been urging the US military to reassert a stronger role in the Nato-led air campaign. The Obama administration, however, has insisted the US will stick to its plan of remaining in a supporting role, and the Pentagon noted that Americans have flown 35% of all air missions over the past 10 days.

The US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, appealed to the other Nato foreign ministers for unity. "As our mission continues, maintaining our resolve and unity only grows more important," she said. "Gaddafi is testing our determination."

Nato members are "sharing the same goal, which is to see the end of the Gaddafi regime in Libya," Clinton said. "We must also intensify our political, diplomatic and economic mission to pressure and isolate Gaddafi and bring about his departure."

The world must "deepen our engagement with and increase our support for" the Libyan opposition, she added.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 17:32 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

Smerige leugenaar. Ghaddafie heeft 2 x een staakt het vuren afgekondigd waar hij zich zelf niet aan hield. Het is een totaal onbetrouwbare psychopaat en jij durft daar de oppositie de schuld van te geven.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 17:52 schreef sunny16947 het volgende:
Ik denk vast te simpel, maar met zoveel landen met militaire overmacht moet het toch mogelijk zijn om in 1 groot luchtoffensief dat legertje van G uit te schakelen? Daar spaar je uiteindelijk burgers mee. Dit slepende in balans houden maakt alleen maar meer slachtoffers.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 17:48 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Ja. Het is duidelijk dat de opstandelingen geen staakt-het-vuren willen. Dat is stom, want ze lijken te verliezen, en als het niet aan de Westerse oorlogsverklaring had gelegen, dan bestond er ueberhaupt geen opstandelingenleger meer.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 13:27 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Humaner zou zijn om een staakt-het-vuren af te kondigen, maar dat willen de opstandelingen niet. Wat een wespennest, waar we ons in hebben begeven.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 17:48 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Ja. Het is duidelijk dat de opstandelingen geen staakt-het-vuren willen. Dat is stom, want ze lijken te verliezen, en als het niet aan de Westerse oorlogsverklaring had gelegen, dan bestond er ueberhaupt geen opstandelingenleger meer.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 17:52 schreef sunny16947 het volgende:
Ik denk vast te simpel, maar met zoveel landen met militaire overmacht moet het toch mogelijk zijn om in 1 groot luchtoffensief dat legertje van G uit te schakelen? Daar spaar je uiteindelijk burgers mee. Dit slepende in balans houden maakt alleen maar meer slachtoffers.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 18:39 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:

[..]

Een oorlog kan niet gewonnen worden vanuit de lucht. Al is overgewicht in de lucht wel een cruciale factor voor overwinning.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 20:17 schreef Sala-adin het volgende:
Is het nou nog aan de gang?

quote:

Al-Jazeera has screened amateur footage that appears to show a protest rally in Misrata in defiance of Gaddafi's attacks on the port city.

مظاهرات في مصراتة متزامنة مع قصف القذافي للمدينة.mp4

quote:

The Citizen Journalist Network reports similar scenes in the city. This video shows a drive round the city depicting rebel forces chanting and sounding car horns.

Scenes from Misrata after a Rebel Victory

quote:

It also shows the extent of damage done by the fighting. Burnt-out cars, a smouldering flat and makeshift barricades can all be seen.

After about five minutes the film focuses on a group of about 100 men crowding round a burnt-out tank. One man stands on the tank holding a machete. Many others appear to be taking mobile phone footage of the tank.

quote:

Op donderdag 14 april 2011 23:16 schreef sunny16947 het volgende:
Open brief aan Saif al islam.

http://www.guardian.co.uk(...)en-letter?CMP=twt_gu

quote:

One of my earliest memories of life in Libya is of watching cartoons on television one afternoon. These were interrupted without warning by images of a man being hanged in what I seem to remember was a sports arena of some kind. Your father's supporters were competing to swing from his struggling legs.

For a long time I chose to interpret the behaviour of these sociopaths as some form of desperate mercy I convinced myself they were trying to limit the victim's suffering. It was many years before I understood that they were in fact trying to catch your father's attention. They wanted to prove they were ruthless and unforgiving enough to be considered true disciples of your father's narcissistic cult.

quote:

However, so long as Qaddafi is in power, NATO must maintain its operations so that civilians remain protected and the pressure on the regime builds. Then a genuine transition from dictatorship to an inclusive constitutional process can really begin, led by a new generation of leaders. In order for that transition to succeed, Qaddafi must go and go for good.

(...)

Britain, France and the United States will not rest until the United Nations Security Council resolutions have been implemented and the Libyan people can choose their own future.

quote:

Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 08:58 schreef MangoTree het volgende:

[..]



[..]

Hoe verziekt kun je een bevolking krijgen?

quote:

Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 10:23 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Obama, Sarkozy en Cameron zeggen het al: deze oorlog gaat verder dan de VN-resolutie -die ze al hadden geschonden-, deze oorlog gaat om regime change:

[..]

Goh. Goh. Hm. Wie had ooit k... nou ja.

quote:

Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 12:13 schreef Ulpianus het volgende:

[..]

Ik vind het hier bijna gerechtvaardigd om een Godwin te maken.

quote:

Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 13:27 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Nou, zo ver wil ik niet gaan, de NAVO-aanval is niet vergelijkbaar met de nazi-aanval op Polen.

quote:

Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 13:00 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
Die dochter van G

uitroeien die handel

quote:

Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 16:52 schreef Tevik het volgende:

[..]

Mensen zoals jij zijn niet beter als Qaddafi.

quote:

With Tripoli's rebel underground

'They're going to catch me soon.' Libyan activist risks arrest to tell of guerrilla attacks and plans for suicide bombings

He was rummaging in the boot of his car as we walked past. "Go forward," he instructed out of the side of his mouth. "I'll pick you up further on."

The car circled several times before he stopped. In a snatched conversation on the phone, he told us he feared he was being watched.

Eventually he felt confident enough to draw up. "You want to go to the fish market?" he called through the lowered window. "Get in."

No, we didn't want to go to the fish market, but as rare and highly-restricted westerners in Tripoli, we both needed a cover story for why we were getting in a Libyan's car.

Our contact was a middle-aged opposition activist in the heart of Muammar Gaddafi's stronghold. Fear and danger are rife; the stakes are high.

During the course of an hour-long conversation, he told us that activists in Tripoli, frustrated by the violent suppression of peaceful protests, were now resorting to guerilla tactics to try to bring down the regime. Even suicide bombings were being considered, he said. His claims cannot be verified or properly evaluated, but they echo accounts obtained by other journalists in Tripoli, and help piece together a picture of underground opposition in the regime-held west of the country.

Our contact took us to a safe house some distance from the city centre. "I am not going to tell you my name, and I don't want to know yours," he said. Before we left, he insisted we delete his phone number from our mobiles.

"They are going to catch me soon," he said with a shrug. He suspected his neighbour of being a spy for the regime – "supergrass" the word he used, reflecting his years living in the UK.

"My name is on a list. Three or four of his boys are really interested in me." In the course of our discussion, he rarely called Gaddafi by name.

"My family don't know about what I'm doing – even my wife," he said. He and his fellow activists communicate using sim cards bought from migrant workers who have fled the country. They speak in code and rarely meet. They have "a few friends in Benghazi", the heart of the rebel-held east, with whom they are in sporadic contact.

Shortly after the Libyan uprising began in the east of the country in mid-February, activists in Tripoli attempted to mount a protest in the capital's central Green Square. It met a violent response from the regime. The rebels were forced to retreat and reconsider their tactics.

Now, the contact said, they were turning to guerrilla actions. They have attacked checkpoints across the city, killing the pro-Gaddafi militia and stealing their guns. The shooting that crackles across the city after dark, which regime officials claim is celebratory gunfire, is the work of the underground rebels, he said. "They [the regime] are covering up ... Every night there are attacks. The boys [on the checkpoints] have got scared. They are only getting 40 dinars (�20) a night, and they are saying we don't want to do this dirty work any more." There have been fewer checkpoints since the attacks began, he claimed.

Asked how they felt about killing fellow Libyans, he replied: "If we don't kill them, they're going to kill us."

The rebels, he said, were planning attacks on petrol stations. Fifteen police stations in the capital have been burned down since the uprising began, he said.

And the underground activists were preparing even bigger attacks. "People are ready for suicide bombings." He told us the rebels were gaining access to explosives from fishermen who use dynamite to stun or kill fish to aid harvesting.

The Libyan leader himself was their number one target, he said. How would they get near him? "We will. We can get near him."

He also claimed that Gaddafi, sooner or later, would face threats from within his inner circle. "People on his side are not with him 100%. They are waiting for one spark. We are waiting for one or two army commanders to turn against him. Then we've got him."

It is, of course, impossible to be certain of the credibility of what we were told. Reporters are denied free movement and access in the regime-held west of the country. But contacts made by other journalists in Tripoli have elicited similar information.

Reuters this week reported opposition activists in Tripoli as saying there have been several attacks on checkpoints and a police station in the past week. It quoted a Libyan rebel sympathiser living abroad but in daily contact with activists in the capital as saying: "There have been attacks by Tripoli people and a lot of people have been killed on the army side."

Other snatched conversations point to dissent rumbling beneath the surface. In a quiet alleyway in Tripoli's old city, a 33-year-old man said he had a rebel flag hidden at home, waiting for the day when Gaddafi goes. "I have a tricolour in my house, I will bring it out when we are free."

In a separate whispered exchange, a shopkeeper said: "Most people are against the system, but can't speak out." Another described Gaddafi as "stupid, a crazy guy, he killed many people".

Many underground rebels have died at the hands of regime forces or have disappeared, our activist contact said.

On 25 February, about 10 days after the uprising began, opposition activists took to the street after Friday prayers. "They were shooting straight away. Six or seven people at [one] mosque, eight at another. It's difficult to count. They pick up the bodies, then claim they were killed by the coalition [airstrikes].

"A lot of good boys are being arrested every day," he said. "They [regime forces] knock on the door. If it's not opened, they smash it down.

"They pick up whoever is in the house. They picked up eight from here three or four days ago. They take the people at night. Some have been held for 50 days."

It's impossible to find out what has happened to them or even to ask the authorities, he said. "If I get arrested, I don't want anyone to look for me because then they will be arrested too."

The youngerA man in the old city told us his cousin disappeared five days before our conversation. They came to his house and took him away, he said. "I can't even ask anyone where my cousin is, it's too dangerous." Thousands of people have disappeared in Tripoli since the crisis began, he claimed.

Figures are impossible to obtain. Amnesty has documented in detail around 30 cases, mainly in the east of the country, while Human Rights Watch has reported a wave of disappearances and arrests in the capital. Our activist contact estimated that a substantial proportion of Tripoli's population oppose Gaddafi. "50% are against him, 25% are on his side and the rest are scared," he said. "But as soon as things change, they'll change quick."

He rejected regime claims that al-Qaida is behind the Libyan uprising. "It's rubbish. He's lying. It's all bullshit, propaganda. This is a pure Libyan revolution. We don't rely on al-Qaida to do our job, Libyans do this."

He said he had high hopes of Nato intervention assisting the rebellion. "I was very happy. I cried when 1973 [the UN resolution authorising military action] was passed, I thought that's it. People were screaming with happiness." Now Nato was not doing enough.

Despite the opposition's struggle to gain ground in the east and the failure of the rebellion – as yet – to take firm hold in the west, the activists will not give up, he said. "They are not going to stop us. You can only die once." Was he prepared to die? "Yes. For our freedom."

quote:

Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 17:14 schreef rakotto het volgende:

[..]

Ze is medeplichtig. Dus uitroeien mag.

quote:

Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 21:54 schreef zoefbust het volgende:
wat zou dit zijn ? afgevuurd op de rebellen

[ afbeelding ]

quote:

Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 22:00 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

81mm mortier munitie. Licht-granaat aan parachute.

quote:

Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 22:16 schreef Frikandelbroodje het volgende:

[..]

Er staat een jodenster op?

quote:

cronicle.com - By Ben Wieder
For a roomful of students, faculty, and staff at Lehigh University, the revolution was on Skype this Friday.

Libyan rebels, using the popular Web video and telephone service, spoke with the Lehigh audience for about one hour from a conference room in Benghazi, the countrys second-largest city and the center of the rebellion that has challenged the 42-year rule of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi this spring.

A translator for the rebel army said he hoped the event would give students and faculty a clearer picture of whats happening, which would in turn help them spread their message to a wider audience in the United States.

[..]

With the help of a PowerPoint presentation, the Libyans explained why they thought it was necessary to overthrow Colonel Qaddafi, traced the path of the current revolution, and described the democratic government they would like to build if they depose him.

[..]

In response to a student question about what legacy the rebels would leave, Mr. Hakim said he hoped it would be clear that the actions of the rebels were a necessary response to years of repression under Colonel Qaddafis rule.

We are not armed creeps or terrorists, he said. Necessity requires that we fight.

quote:

Libya: Gaddafi forces 'using cluster bombs in Misrata'

Human Rights Watch say Gaddafi's army has fired the weapons, which cause massive damage and are banned in most states

Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi have fired cluster bombs into residential areas of the besieged city of Misrata, according to witnesses.

Human Rights Watch reported that four cluster bombs exploded in the city on Thursday and Friday, and two Libyan residents of Misrata told the Guardian that they suspected the munitions were being used.

Cluster bombs, banned by most countries in the world, explode in midair, indiscriminately throwing out dozens of high-explosive bomblets which cause widespread damage and injuries over a large area. The submunitions often fail to explode on impact but detonate when stepped on or picked up.

The claims came as the leaders of US, Britain and France committed their countries to pursue military action until Colonel Gaddafi has been removed from power. In a joint letter, Barack Obama, David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy described the onslaught on Misrata a "medieval siege … to strangle its population into submission".

More than 100 government rockets were also fired on Misrata on Friday during a second day of heavy bombardment. Eight people were killed, according to rebels, who said government forces had reached the city's centre.

HRW condemned the use of cluster munitions, especially in residential areas. "They pose a huge risk to civilians, both during attacks, because of their indiscriminate nature, and afterward because of the still-dangerous unexploded duds scattered about," said Steve Goose, HRW's arms division director.

It said that, based on its examination of submunition found in Misrata, the bombs originated in Spain. "The cluster munition is a Spanish-produced MAT-120 120mm mortar projectile, which opens in mid-air and releases 21 submunitions over a wide area. Upon exploding on contact with an object, each submunition disintegrates into high-velocity fragments to attack people and releases a slug of molten metal to penetrate armored vehicles," it said in a statement.

The US secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, speaking after a meeting of Nato foreign ministers in Berlin, said she was not aware of the reports, but remarked, "I'm not surprised by anything that Colonel Gaddafi and his forces do."

She added: "That is worrying information. And it is one of the reasons the fight in Misrata is so difficult, because it's at close quarters, it's in amongst urban areas and it poses a lot of challenges to both Nato and to the opposition."

Mohamed, a rebel opposition spokesman in Misrata, told the Guardian by Skype that he had heard "one big explosion followed by many smaller ones. It sounds like cluster bombs".

He also reported seeing victims of what he called "candy bombs", describing them as "something that resembles a pretty bottle. You pick it up, it explodes and kills you."

Aiman Abushahma, a doctor at a Misrata hospital, said medics were seeing people with injuries consistent with cluster bombs. "We never saw these injuries before. We need experts to assess [the weaponry]," he said.

HRW said cluster bombs had fallen around 1km from the frontline in Misrata. It could not confirm whether civilians had been killed or injured by the munitions.

It quoted two Misrata ambulance drivers, who said they had witnessed cluster strikes on Wednesday and Thursday.

Ibrahim Abuwayfa saw an explosion in the air and "little flames" coming down at about 7pm on Wednesday. "One of the objects landed a few metres away on a residential wall and it exploded when it hit and then shrapnel flew out," he said.

Waleed Srayti said he saw a cluster munition strike at around 11am on Thursday. "I was in the streets behind the vegetable market," he said. "A big battle was going on in Tripoli Street at the vegetable market. I heard a noise and about nine or 10 things started popping out of the sky over the market. I just saw the pops in the air. I saw white smoke coming down."

Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim denied that Libya was using cluster bombs. "We can never do this, morally, legally. We challenge them [HRW] to prove this. We know the international community is coming en masse to our country. We're not using them."

Libya has not signed the Convention on Cluster Munitions, which bans the use, production, stockpiling and transfer of cluster munitions, and requires states to destroy stockpiles.

quote:

Newsnight's Diplomatic editor Mark Urban in Benghazi profiles the Libyan Revolutionary Council. Who are they and what do they stand for? Are they a coherent, credible force?

quote:

Ja. Het is duidelijk dat de opstandelingen geen staakt-het-vuren willen. Dat is stom, want ze lijken te verliezen, en als het niet aan de Westerse oorlogsverklaring had gelegen, dan bestond er ueberhaupt geen opstandelingenleger meer.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 01:22 schreef Onverlaatje het volgende:
Monidique schreef:

[..]

Stom, slim, daar denk je alleen aan als je huurling bent.
Als je rebel bent, dan accepteer je al dat je dood bent, maar dat je je dood nog enigszins wilt uitstellen met kans op een mogelijke overwinning.

quote:

'Zorgen om gevolgen onrust Arabische wereld'

quote:

AMSTERDAM - Veel Nederlanders maken zich zorgen over de gevolgen van de recente ontwikkelingen in landen als Egypte en Libi�.

Dat blijkt uit een onderzoek van TNS Nipo, waarvoor Forum, Instituut voor Multiculturele Vraagstukken opdracht had gegeven en waarvan zaterdag de resultaten naar buiten zijn gebracht..

Van de ondervraagde mensen gaf de helft te kennen zich zorgen te maken over de grote aantallen vluchtelingen die uit de regio komen.

Driekwart is bezorgd over de stijgende olieprijzen, bijna 70 procent is bang voor radicalisering en dreiging van terrorisme.

Het onderzoek werd enkele weken geleden uitgevoerd. TNS Nipo nodigde 1100 respondenten uit, van wie er ruim negenhonderd meewerkten.
Bron: NU.nl.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 12:16 schreef zarGon het volgende:
Nieuwstitel:

[..]

Hm, ik dacht bezorgd om de gevolgen voor het volk in die landen!

[..]

.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 12:28 schreef houda het volgende:

[..]

Inderdaad... Geen woord over alle slachtoffers!! Bah wat een egoistisch onderzoek zeg!

quote:

En ik snap ook niet dat de mensen bezorgd zijn over radicalisering hoor, tuurlijk zullen er mensen zijn die verkeerde bedoelingen hebben.
Maar zo gauw dit over is gaan de libische mensen gewoon verder met de strijd TEGEN radicalisering en terrorisme en Al Qaida!!

quote:

Eerst m,oet die Gadahaffi weg en dan pas kan er weer een fatsoenlijk beleid hier tegen opgezet worden!!

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 12:49 schreef Tevik het volgende:

[..]

Libische volk is slachtoffer van zichzelf. Daar waar de Tunesiers en de Egyptenaren niet naar wapens grepen, greep een deel van de Libiers snel naar de wapens. "Wie met het zwaard vecht, zal door het zwaard omkomen."

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 12:16 schreef zarGon het volgende:
Nieuwstitel:

[..]

Hm, ik dacht bezorgd om de gevolgen voor het volk in die landen!

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 12:56 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

Je liegt. De Ook in Libi� begon het met vreedzame demonstraties. Ghaddafi heeft er een oorlog van gemaakt, burgers werden genoodzaakt zich te verdedigen. In Benghazi hadden ze ongewapend een legerbasis veroverd.

quote:

But broadening our military mission to include regime change would be a mistake.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 12:57 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Ongewapend met autobommen, ja. . "Smerige leugenaar."

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 12:59 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Wat een domme, domme, ondoordachte, domme oorlog toch. Na de debacles in de Balken en in het Midden-Oosten, gaan we toch maar weer even een oorlogje voeren. Aanvallen, en later zien we wel hoe het verder moet!

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:03 schreef waht het volgende:
Als jij de toekomst kan voorspellen ligt voor jou een puike baan in het voorschiet.

quote:

Tevens deze dooddoener: All that needs to be done for evil to prevail is that good men do nothing.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:08 schreef Monidique het volgende:


Dooddoener, ja. Meer niet.

quote:

If bloodbath was unlikely, how did this notion propel US intervention? The actual prospect in Benghazi was the final defeat of the rebels. To avoid this fate, they desperately concocted an impending genocide to rally international support for “humanitarian’’ intervention that would save their rebellion.

On March 15, Reuters quoted a Libyan opposition leader in Geneva claiming that if Khadafy attacked Benghazi, there would be “a real bloodbath, a massacre like we saw in Rwanda.’’ Four days later, US military aircraft started bombing. By the time Obama claimed that intervention had prevented a bloodbath, The New York Times already had reported that “the rebels feel no loyalty to the truth in shaping their propaganda’’ against Khadafy and were “making vastly inflated claims of his barbaric behavior.’’

It is hard to know whether the White House was duped by the rebels or conspired with them to pursue regime-change on bogus humanitarian grounds. In either case, intervention quickly exceeded the UN mandate of civilian protection by bombing Libyan forces in retreat or based in bastions of Khadafy support, such as Sirte, where they threatened no civilians.

The net result is uncertain. Intervention stopped Khadafy’s forces from capturing Benghazi, saving some lives. But it intensified his crackdown in western Libya to consolidate territory quickly. It also emboldened the rebels to resume their attacks, briefly recapturing cities along the eastern and central coast, such as Ajdabiya, Brega, and Ras Lanuf, until they outran supply lines and retreated.

Each time those cities change hands, they are shelled by both sides — killing, wounding, and displacing innocents. On March 31, NATO formally warned the rebels to stop attacking civilians. It is poignant to recall that if not for intervention, the war almost surely would have ended last month.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:17 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

http://www.boston.com/bos(...)isc:on:share:article

Een goede samenvatting van de oorlog tot nu toe. De reden (b)lijkt pure propaganda te zijn;

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:21 schreef Renaldo het volgende:
monidique die weet het wel hoor, ongelofelijk dat er op fok! potenti�le wereldleiders rondhangen.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:21 schreef remlof het volgende:
En er gaat natuurlijk een signaalwerking uit van die aanvallen van het westen. Dat dictators zich maar niet zomaar tegen hun eigen bevolking kunnen richten.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:21 schreef Renaldo het volgende:
monidique die weet het wel hoor, ongelofelijk dat er op fok! potenti�le wereldleiders rondhangen.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:26 schreef remlof het volgende:
Ik denk niet dat Assad nu nog zoiets uit kan halen als z'n vader in '82 deed: een hele stad uitmoorden. Dan grijpt het westen echt wel in, iig vanuit de lucht.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:24 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

Hij probeert Libi� met de illegale oorlog in Irak te vergelijken. Daar was ie waarschijnlijk voor. Maar ik weet zeker dat zijn propaganda-blaadje daar voor was. En dat gebruiken ze nu als tegenargument.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:08 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Allemachtig, ik hoef toch niet uit te leggen dat er een verschil is tussen een zekere uitkomst en een doordacht plan? Dit lijkt mij zo'n overduidelijk punt, daar is geen discussie over.

quote:

Tevens: verschiet. Al met al, na een maand van oorlogvoeren tegen Libie, lijkt een van de meest waarschijnlijke scenario's inderdaad uit te komen: geen einde aan de ellende, Khaddafi aan de macht, escalatie wordt steeds waarschijnlijker.

quote:

Dit hadden ze moeten voorzien, sterker nog, landen als Duitsland, voorzagen het ook. Laat het Libie-debacle een les zijn. Maar ja, het Afghanistan-debacle had al een les moeten zijn en het Irak-debacle en het Kosovo-debacle. Het Westen lijkt niet te leren van de fouten.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:41 schreef remlof het volgende:
Vergeet het C�te d'Ivoire succes niet, Monidique

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:39 schreef waht het volgende:

Achteraf is makkelijk praten ja, dat lijkt me duidelijk. Voor jou valt alles achteraf op z'n plek. (...) Je bagatelliseert het leven in een dictatuur. "Nu begint de ellende pas echt." (...) Tja, het heeft voor mij niet echt zin om met iemand te discussi�ren die alle oorlogen fouten vindt en het liefst een 'leven en laten leven'-buitenlandbeleid wil voeren.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:43 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Wel, dat is ook nog afwachten, he. Daar waren de opstandelingen overigens aan het winnen en Franse aanvallen hebben enigszins geholpen, maar marginaal uiteindelijk. Ik zie geen vergelijking tussen Libie en Ivoorkust, wat dat betreft.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:46 schreef remlof het volgende:

[..]

Ik zie in beide gevallen een staatshoofd dat krampachtig vasthoudt aan z'n macht tegen de wil van zijn eigen volk in.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 14:06 schreef remlof het volgende:
HRW beschuldigt Ghadaffi van het gebruik van clustermunitie bij de aanvallen op Misrata: http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/(...)rmunitie-in-misrata/

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:52 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Overigens, ja, ik ben van mening dat oorlog primair als iets fout moet worden gezien,

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 14:39 schreef Augustus_Thijs het volgende:

[..]

Ach, clustermunitie wordt door andere landen ook gebruikt..
Dus waarom dat dan nu wel afgestraft moet worden en anders niet..

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 16:07 schreef Infection het volgende:
Ik vraag me af waarom Kadhafi nog niet dood is... Hij rijd ook gewoon rond in zijn SUV hangend uit het raam, en niemand die de kans neemt om hem neer te schieten?

http://nos.nl/video/23321(...)jk-door-tripoli.html

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 16:07 schreef Infection het volgende:
Ik vraag me af waarom Kadhafi nog niet dood is... Hij rijd ook gewoon rond in zijn SUV hangend uit het raam, en niemand die de kans neemt om hem neer te schieten?

http://nos.nl/video/23321(...)jk-door-tripoli.html

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:29 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Dat gaat absoluut niet gebeuren.

Nog een nadeel van deze oorlog: het moedigt kansloze opstandelingen aan om toch maar aan te vallen, want het Westen komt wel te hulp. Gaat niet gebeuren, maar dat hebben we nu wel gezegd, he, dus meer onrust en strijd en doden.

Samengevat: Clusterfuck.

quote:

Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:45 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Serieus, ik weet niet hoe ik hier op moet reageren. Je verzint dingen ter plekke, je fantaseert meningen die ik zou hebben, uitspraken die ik gedaan zou hebben, ik weet niet hoe ik daar op moet reageren. Ik kan je alleen aanraden beter te lezen, minder te fantaseren en gewoon een serieuze discussie proberen aan te gaan, want zo kan ik er echt niets mee. Het is een beetje vals zo en daar heb ik geen zin in vandaag.

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Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 17:09 schreef Ugjerke het volgende:

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Het Westen grijpt in wanneer een regering de bevolking aanvalt, niet wanneer de bevolking de regering aanvalt. (Tenzij dat een reactie is op een regering die de bevolking aanvalt)

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Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 12:49 schreef Tevik het volgende:

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Libische volk is slachtoffer van zichzelf. Daar waar de Tunesiers en de Egyptenaren niet naar wapens grepen, greep een deel van de Libiers snel naar de wapens. "Wie met het zwaard vecht, zal door het zwaard omkomen."

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Want de oorlog die nu woedt is niet genoeg? Je bent geen haar beter dan Qaddafi of "al-qaida". Eens kijken of je nog zo strijdlustig bent als je buik niet gevuld is, je huis en huisraad aan gort geschoten is, en bloed en lijden je eigen huis binnendringt. Dan zul we zien of het nog allemaal zo spannend is.

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Zet maar een beleid op voor wat je vanavond gaat eten.

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Op vrijdag 15 april 2011 16:52 schreef Tevik het volgende:

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Mensen zoals jij zijn niet beter als Qaddafi.

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Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:48 schreef Monidique het volgende:

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Ik denk dat meer Libiers Khaddafi kwijt willen dan Ivorianen Gbagbo. "Het volk" heeft namelijk voor een groot gedeelte op hem gestemd en er is daar een burgeroorlog tegen "de anderen". Je kunt niet stellen dat het een geval is van staatshoofd versus het volk. En zoiets geldt ook voor Libie, want daar heeft Khaddafi duidelijk nog genoeg steun om controle te houden over een significant gedeelte van het land, daarvoor heeft hij de steun van westerse stammen nodig.

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Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 13:52 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Overigens, ja, ik ben van mening dat oorlog primair als iets fout moet worden gezien

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Op zondag 17 april 2011 00:16 schreef psv01 het volgende:

Libya - Misrata City 03 Destruction by Gaddafi units

Video purportedly shows Libyan soldiers entering Benghazi on March 19

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AlJazeeraEnglish on Apr 16, 2011

This video purportedly shows Gaddafi troops entering the outskirts of Benghazi on March 19, the day foreign airstrikes began.

A resident from Benghazi received this footage from one of his friends and has chosen to share it with Al Jazeera. They believe the clip was taken from a dead Gaddafi soldier.

Al Jazeera has not been able to independently verify these accounts or this footage.

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Op zaterdag 16 april 2011 20:52 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:

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Het is weldegelijk staatshoofd tegen het volk. G zelf heeft namelijk geen deel van het volk dat hem steunt. Die steun bestaat uit mensen die in de propaganda zijn getuind (of erger: ermee zijn opgevoed), en dienaren; mensen die bevoorrechte posities, macht en centen van hem krijgen. Het feit dat hij huurlingen nodig heeft om zijn strijdmacht draaiende te houden, zegt eigenlijk ook al genoeg.

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Problematisch zijn vooral de mensen die opgevoed zijn volgens zijn doctrine, en werkelijk geloven dat hij een goed man is. Aan de ene kant is het inhumaan om die mensen af te schieten, aan de andere kant zijn het steunbetuigers van een massamoordenaar.

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Op zondag 17 april 2011 13:58 schreef Repelsteeltju het volgende:

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Je spreekt jezelf tegen, vriend... En volgens deze retoriek zou elk land met een huurlingenleger/beroepsleger waar een burgeroorlog woedt helemaal zonder uitzondering tegen de grote leider zijn.

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Het ironische is dat je precies hetzelfde over de rebellen kan zeggen: aan de ene kant zijn het mensen die echt ontevreden zijn over hun regering en aan de andere kant worden ze geholpen door strijders van Al Qaida en helpen zij hen ook.

Voor zo ver ik het begrijp heeft Libi� een soort van directe democratie en (een van) de reden(en) dat Gathafi beweert dat hij niet kan aftreden is omdat hij gekozen is door het volk via die comit�s dictatuur met een sterk fundament, door een daadkrachtig leider die elke vorm van opstand met de dood of verdwijning beantwoord.

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Op zondag 17 april 2011 14:57 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:

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Dienaren van G's eigenbelang reken ik niet tot het volk. Zij hebben dat voorrecht al verloren door het steunen van massamoord, en eigenlijk al tig jaar eerder voor het in stand houden van G. Hier zullen de meningen wel over verschillen, maar als ik een dictatuur bekijk, zie ik het zo: Dictator + aanhang, versus de rest, wat voor 99% uit het volk bestaat.

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Op zondag 17 april 2011 14:58 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
Wat heeft Al Qaida ermee te maken

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Op zondag 17 april 2011 14:58 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
Wat heeft Al Qaida ermee te maken

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Op zondag 17 april 2011 18:43 schreef houda het volgende:
Sommige van jullie geloven dus echt wat een massamoordenaar zegt over al qaida??
Dit is precies wat hij probeerd te bereiken...