Israël, Libanon/Gaza, oorlog #35

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 11:44 schreef -scorpione- het volgende:
Waar waren we gebleven?

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 11:58 schreef _Qmars_ het volgende:
ik wilde net de haaretz ticker even posten.. maar al gedaanzie ik . Kan de OP ook even ververst worden?

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 11:55 schreef Schepseltje het volgende:
Hoe is het gesteld met de heilige strijders van Hezbollah? Hoeveel zouden er nog over zijn..

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 11:53 schreef DustPuppy het volgende:

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Een off-topic discussie over steun van de VS aan verschillende Arabische overheden/dictaturen.

Btw Wikipedia als bron aanhalen, een encyclopedie waar niets in komt als iedereen het er niet 100% mee eens is bij een discussie over zo'n gevoelig onderwerp is wel een zwaktebod hoor.

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 12:04 schreef B4CO het volgende:
Kan de headlines in de OP vernieuwd worden svp
en deel 35 ervan maken in de TT
^{(gevolg van dat iemand snel snel als eerste een topic wil openen...)}

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 12:27 schreef huupia34 het volgende:
jammer dat de meeste fokkers denken dat het conflict begon toen hezbollah 3 militairen kidnapte.

het begint natuurlijk al in 1948 of daarvoor. maar in 1948 toen de staat israel werd opgericht werden honderdduizenden palestijnen HUN land uitgewerkt.

de israelisch waren zelf ook niet vreemd van aanslagen, toen israel nog werd bestuurd door de britten , vonden er geregeld joodse bomaanslagen plaats. een daarvan op de britten met 91 doden tot gevolg.

als je de historie een beetje kent gaat het wel in een heel ander daglicht staan, en worden terroristen eerder vrijheidsstrijders.

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 12:27 schreef huupia34 het volgende:
jammer dat de meeste fokkers denken dat het conflict begon toen hezbollah 3 militairen kidnapte.

het begint natuurlijk al in 1948 of daarvoor. maar in 1948 toen de staat israel werd opgericht werden honderdduizenden palestijnen HUN land uitgewerkt.

de israelisch waren zelf ook niet vreemd van aanslagen, toen israel nog werd bestuurd door de britten , vonden er geregeld joodse bomaanslagen plaats. een daarvan op de britten met 91 doden tot gevolg.

als je de historie een beetje kent gaat het wel in een heel ander daglicht staan, en worden terroristen eerder vrijheidsstrijders.

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 12:36 schreef koudhier het volgende:

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Als jij die geschiedenis zo goed kent weet je ook vast waar die palestijnen vandaan kwamen... Oh ja, hoorde de gaza strook niet bij Egypte? En kwam de rest niet voornamelijk uit Jordanie? Juist ja. Die palestijnen worden door hun eigen volk niet opgenomen of geholpen... Niemand die daar met een woord over rept... Egypte wilde alleen vredesbesprekingen met Israel als zij de Gaza nam met de palestijnen erbij... Jordanie was ook maar wat blij van deze "nomaden" af te zijn. Het zijn hun eigen broeders die ze keihard hebben laten vallen en dat nog steeds doen.
Heb je die kant van de geschiedenis ook tegen het daglicht gehouden of alleen de feiten die in jouw anti-Israel betoogje passen?

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 12:27 schreef huupia34 het volgende:
jammer dat de meeste fokkers denken dat het conflict begon toen hezbollah 3 militairen kidnapte.

het begint natuurlijk al in 1948 of daarvoor. maar in 1948 toen de staat israel werd opgericht werden honderdduizenden palestijnen HUN land uitgewerkt.

de israelisch waren zelf ook niet vreemd van aanslagen, toen israel nog werd bestuurd door de britten , vonden er geregeld joodse bomaanslagen plaats. een daarvan op de britten met 91 doden tot gevolg.

als je de historie een beetje kent gaat het wel in een heel ander daglicht staan, en worden terroristen eerder vrijheidsstrijders.

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 12:11 schreef oheng het volgende:
Topic is verkeerd. Dit is deel 35, niet 34.
Dat dingen er alleen in komen als iedereen er 100% mee eens is, lijkt mij eerder een uiterst goed punt van Wikipedia.

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 12:52 schreef -scorpione- het volgende:

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Je pedante toontje bevalt me niet en verder pen je nog onzin neer ook Hier ga ik dus verder ook niet op reageren.

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 12:51 schreef koudhier het volgende:
Jij zegt: "een compleet volk" en "hun land". Hoe kom je daarbij?

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 13:00 schreef huupia34 het volgende:

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This Zionist terrorism led to the imposition of the Jewish state in 1948 when 750,000 or more Arabic people were expelled from their own land. Among the major players in these and other terrorist operations were Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, butchers who became Israeli Prime Ministers and had the nerve to condemn Arab terrorism.

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 13:00 schreef huupia34 het volgende:

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This Zionist terrorism led to the imposition of the Jewish state in 1948 when 750,000 or more Arabic people were expelled from their own land. Among the major players in these and other terrorist operations were Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, butchers who became Israeli Prime Ministers and had the nerve to condemn Arab terrorism.

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The conflict between Israel and the Arab world is not about the borders of the Jewish State. Simply put, the core of the conflict is about Israel's mere existence!

Grab a map and look throughout the Arab NearEast-MiddleEast and much of Africa and Asia. Israel is the ONLY non-Muslim nation. It is also the only democracy! Sure, Lebanon functioned somewhat as a bi-national Christian/Muslim nation until Yasser Arafat and his Palestine Liberation Organization [PLO] Arab-"Palestinian" thugs set up shop there in 1970. Soon after their arrival, they set up a "state within a state" and instigated a 15 year Muslim-Christian civil war (1970-85). The havoc that Arafat unleashed upon a once civilized Lebanon has been a standard of his long career. As a direct result of this rape of the the once beautiful "Land of the Cedars," Lebanon has essentially become just another Arab-Muslim nation... in fact, a terrorist Muslim nation. If THIS is what happens when Christians try to share power with Muslims, one can only imagine Jews trying the same! And having Arafat and his Palestinian State alongside Israel's belly is also not such a pleasant thought! So much for the "poor suffering Arab-Palestinians!"

Throughout most of the Arab-Muslim world, hatred toward the Jews is preached in mosques where the "Zionist entity" is portrayed as a diabolical threat. This characterization of the Jews is taught in refugee camps where Israelis are known as the "usurpers and barbarians" who have expelled the "poor Palestinian Arabs" from their homes. It is taught in all Arab schools, spoken over the television and radio waves and written in books and newspaper editorials. The latest "fashionable" spread of Arab propaganda and lies is via the Internet. Even a whole new non-Muslim audience is now being brainwashed with patently untrue tales of Arab suffering at the hands of the Jews.

It is important to note that the world has seen hundreds of millions of REFUGEES... more than 135 million during the 20th-century alone. It's a natural and expected end result of wars. The Palestinian refugee problem is rooted in the 1948-49 Arab-Israeli War. In 1947, realizing that the Jewish and Arab communities of Palestine could not live together in one state, the U.N. General Assembly adopted Resolution 181, which recommended partitioning Palestine into two states... one Jewish and one Arab [left map]. While the Jews accepted this plan, the Arabs rejected it, claiming that all of Palestine belonged to them. And when Israel declared its independence on May 14, 1948, seven neighboring Arab states attacked it in an attempt to prevent its creation... and to slaughter every Jewish man, woman and child!

In the wake of this war, approximately 420,000 Arab- Palestinians fled to Arab states from the portion of Palestine that is now Israel. Arabs remaining in Israel numbered 140,000. The total number of Arabs who left could not mathematically have been more than some 420,000This is the number according to the British Mandate's statistics and conforms roughly also to the figure published from Arab sources, and by the UN. Conveniently not mentioned was that only 15% of these fleeing Arab "Palestinians" were actually landowners... the remainder were simply squatters! And practically never acknowledged by the Arab world was that 860,000 Jewish refugees fled from Arab countries to Israel! The latter are the refugees the Arab world seems to forget mentioning when they squawk about refugees! For example, before the Jewish Palestinians declared their State of Israel in 1948, there were 350,000 Jewish people in Iraq alone... fully one-fifth of Baghdad's citizens were Jewish! After the creation of the State of Israel hundreds of thousands of the Iraqi Jews fled for their lives. Most went to Israel. Today, there are 38 Jews left in Baghdad. In Basra, Iraq there is just one old woman. In Mosul, Amarah, and other Iraqi cities where Jews had lived for more than two thousand years, their communities have vanished without trace!

This population exchange mirrored far larger population movements following the end of World War II, which involved millions of Hindus and Muslims in India and Pakistan, as well as Poles, Germans and MANY other nationalities in Central and East Europe. These population exchanges were resolved through the integration of all refugees into host states. While Israel absorbed the Jewish refugees, the Arab states refused to allow such resettlement and integration of their Palestinian brethren, preferring instead to exploit the Arab-"Palestinian" refugees to serve their own political agendas. And now, more than a half century since the Jewish-"Palestinians" became "Israelis," many of the Arab-"Palestinian" refugee camps remain throughout Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. "West Bank"), Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. Of course, many of these so-called "refugee camps" include double and triple level homes in which one can find computers and Internet connections! However, they STILL guard their "refugee status" so as appeal to "suckers" around the world! Are you one of them?

We don't hear about any Jewish refugees who were thrown out of many Arab countries in 1948 for most of them were absorbed by their fellow Jews within Israel. The children and grandchildren of these Jewish refugees are now free and productive citizens. Yet, while the Arabs throughout the Middle East cry crocodile tears for their poor suffering "Palestinian" brothers and sisters, none of the 24 Arab countries has opened their arms to embrace them as new citizens. Instead, these refugees and their descendants were dumped into camps of poverty and degradation for the world to see, further fanning the flames of hatred. Ironically, the Arabs who did not flee and, instead, remained inside Israel became Israeli-Arab citizens have fared far better than those in Arab countries!

The bottom line is that today's Arab "Palestinian" refugees are not now, and never were, the problem or responsibility of Israel. The truth is that nearly 70% of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – perhaps 300,000 of them – never saw an Israeli soldier! The remaining 30% either (1) saw for themselves that these Jews would fight and die for their new nation and decided to pack up and leave or (2) were driven off the land as a normal consequence of war.

The Arab armies did not give up trying to destroy Israel after their initial failure in 1948-9. They tried again in the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War. Once again they lost and another million Arabs... from the (Jordanian) "West Bank," (Egyptian) Gaza Strip and the (Syrian) Golan region.... added to the Arab Palestinian refugee list. It must be stressed that the Palestinian Arabs (abetted and "stirred up" by neighboring Arab nations) started BOTH the 1948 and 1967 wars leading to their refugee status! Talk about "Sore Losers!"

The solicitous attitude toward the Palestinians is a prime example of that most entrenched of international double standards -- one rule for Israel , another for everyone else. Not only the Arabs who left what became Israel , but their children and grandchildren have been granted refugee status in perpetuity by the United Nations. Clearly, most of the five million "Palestinian refugees" have never set eyes on their “homeland!”

SUMMATION...

What makes the Palestinian Arabs stand out among the world's refugees is that they created their own pathetic situation or were misled by their leaders. In 1923, the Arab Palestinians were given 75% of Palestine in which to form their first Arab- Palestinian state of Jordan. The Jewish Palestinians were supposed to be given the remainder. However, the Arabs wanted ALL. So 24 years later in1947 this remaining 25% that remained of the original "Palestine" was to be re-divided again into equal portions... the Arab Palestinians would be given their second nation while the Jewish Palestinians would be given their one and ONLY state. But still, as before and as ALWAYS, the Arabs wanted it all ... "every last inch" and "every last grain of sand" as they said then and as they say now! And so in 1948 they and their fellow Arabs in neighboring states launched an all-out war on the this newly-created Jewish Palestinian nation [Israel] and lost. God blessed the Jewish Nation... the Arabs took a chance and lost. Tough Luck for them! Bur get this... now, more than a half century later, they demand that Israel give them what was first offered in 1947! And, during that same half century, Israelis have build large, thriving communities with roads, hospitals, universities, synagogues, electric grids, communications facilities, post offices and other civil infrastructures within that liberated land. Are they to pack up and "ethnically cleanse" THEMSELVES from this territory so that Arabs can simply move in?

Things permitted to other nations are forbidden to the Jews of Israel. Other nations drive out thousands, even millions of people and there is no refugee problem. Russia did it, Poland and Czechoslovakia did it and surely the Germans did it. Turkey threw out a million Greeks, and Algeria tossed out a million Frenchman. Indonesia threw out heaven knows how many Chinese-and no one says a word about refugees. And the Arabs threw out 860,000 Jews just in 1948 alone! But in the case of Israel, the relatively small number of displaced Arabs have become the world's eternal refugees! The only thing that makes them so special is that they helped create their own refugee status!

What was offered to these Arab Palestinians in 1947 can NOT be offered once again. The State of Israel has developed into a first class democracy and sees no reason to dissect and weaken herself to the point where the Arabs can try to destroy her again! NO normal nation can be asked to do that and neither should Israel! The world should have far more important things to concern itself with other than the Arabs' constant belly-aching! As they say, "Get a Life, Already!"

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2006 12:58 schreef huupia34 het volgende:
Former Israel Prime Minster, Yitzhak Rabin, said in an uncensored version of his memoirs, published in the New York Times on 23 October 23rd, 1979:

'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question - What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said "Drive them out!"'