NWS Nieuws & Achtergronden
Discussieer hier diepgaander over de actualiteiten.
Topic for facts, speculations and general chat with our foreign friend(s) 
game on.
Part one:
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound).
Part two:
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) II
Andere topics die interessant zijn:
Shango's raadsel
De man in de schaduw: Steve Gregory Croes
Peter's reactie op kritische reacties na uitzending
Buitenland:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/
En uiteraard op de FP:
Peter's reactie op kritische reacties na uitzending
Holloway-zaak kost Aruba miljoenen
Joran praat morgen met politie
[ Bericht 25% gewijzigd door yvonne op 06-02-2008 13:43:26 ]
game on.
Part one:
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound).
Part two:
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) II
Andere topics die interessant zijn:
Shango's raadsel
De man in de schaduw: Steve Gregory Croes
Peter's reactie op kritische reacties na uitzending
Buitenland:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.
http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/
En uiteraard op de FP:
Peter's reactie op kritische reacties na uitzending
Holloway-zaak kost Aruba miljoenen
Joran praat morgen met politie
[ Bericht 25% gewijzigd door yvonne op 06-02-2008 13:43:26 ]
the scaredmonkeys (observer777 is moderator) site has a lot of valuable information.
there has really been a lot of indepth honest investigation over there i noticed just by glancing at the blog and forum.
but ofcourse also misinformation and speculation.
but that's what you get with such a complicated case with false confessions, statements being withdawn, potential cover up and all that.
problem is, the information is just overwhelming.
it might be a good idea for SM to make comprehensive summary of al the 'facts' with timelines and sources and everything.
i will be a hell of a job, but this way it is easier to get into all the information surrounding this case.
if more people (in the netherlands) get to know all the proven facts and propable theories it could ultimately reach the regular media and maybe even help solving the case...
or is there already such a summary on the SM-site? sorry for missing that...
(hetzelfde heb ik gepost op het scaredmonkeys-forum)
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2571.msg341185#msg341185
there has really been a lot of indepth honest investigation over there i noticed just by glancing at the blog and forum.
but ofcourse also misinformation and speculation.
but that's what you get with such a complicated case with false confessions, statements being withdawn, potential cover up and all that.
problem is, the information is just overwhelming.
it might be a good idea for SM to make comprehensive summary of al the 'facts' with timelines and sources and everything.
i will be a hell of a job, but this way it is easier to get into all the information surrounding this case.
if more people (in the netherlands) get to know all the proven facts and propable theories it could ultimately reach the regular media and maybe even help solving the case...
or is there already such a summary on the SM-site? sorry for missing that...
(hetzelfde heb ik gepost op het scaredmonkeys-forum)
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2571.msg341185#msg341185
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Oh, jeez, they're discussing Steve Croes?quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 08:54 schreef Caesu het volgende:
the scaredmonkeys (observer777 is moderator) site has a lot of valuable information.
there has really been a lot of indepth honest investigation over there i noticed just by glancing at the blog and forum.
but ofcourse also misinformation and speculation.
but that's what you get with such a complicated case with false confessions, statements being withdawn, potential cover up and all that.
problem is, the information is just overwhelming.
it might be a good idea for SM to make comprehensive summary of al the 'facts' with timelines and sources and everything.
i will be a hell of a job, but this way it is easier to get into all the information surrounding this case.
if more people (in the netherlands) get to know all the proven facts and propable theories it could ultimately reach the regular media and maybe even help solving the case...
or is there already such a summary on the SM-site? sorry for missing that...
(hetzelfde heb ik gepost op het scaredmonkeys-forum)
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2571.msg341185#msg341185
I´m back.
Funny I thought of the exact same thing the other day.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 08:54 schreef Caesu het volgende:
it might be a good idea for SM to make comprehensive summary of al the 'facts' with timelines and sources and everything.
i will be a hell of a job, but this way it is easier to get into all the information surrounding this case.
if more people (in the netherlands) get to know all the proven facts and propable theories it could ultimately reach the regular media and maybe even help solving the case...
That would be very useful indeed.
Stake your finger in the dyke than.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:01 schreef santax het volgende:
An English topic on Fok!? Here breaks my wooden shoe from.
(back to onz for me it is.)
.
I´m back.
lolquote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:01 schreef santax het volgende:
An English topic on Fok!? Here breaks my wooden shoe from.
(back to onz for me it is.)
Dont trip on joor wooden shoe on de wee oud.
Goed ideequote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 08:54 schreef Caesu het volgende:
it might be a good idea for SM to make comprehensive summary of al the 'facts' with timelines and sources and everything.
Langzaam ben ik ook een beetje aan dit verhaal gaan denken.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 08:29 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
- Joran wil scoren met Natalee
- Joren heeft zijn "love potion nr. 9" bij zich en doet dit in het drankje dat hij voor haar haalt (75% alcohol, was sowieso niet te zuipen, ze merkt de GHB niet).
- De drugs begint te werken en de jongens nemen een half bewusteloze Natalee mee. (volgens haar virendinnen was ze plots erg dronken)
- De broers zetten Joran en Natalee af bij het strand
- Natalee is out, Joran moet zich "behelpen" met een zo goed als bewusteloze Natalee
"Ik wilde dat ze mijn pik zoog" versus "Ook al vinden ze mijn sperma in haar"
- Joran stopt zijn penis in de mond van Natalee en bevredigd zichzelf
- Natalee's braakreflex wordt getriggerd en ze geeft over
- Natalee stikt in haar braaksel
- Joran raakt in paniek en belt "Daury"
- Daury = Paulus van der Sloot
- Paulus komt aan en constateert "Ze is overleden"
- Paulus stuurt Joran naar huis met instructies aan een alibi te beginnen
- Paulus heeft het lijk van Natalee laten verdwijnen
Denk persoonlijk dat dit het verhaal is.
iig dat die vader er een stuk meer vanaf weet. Toch moet dan nagetrokken worden of die vader theoretisch binnen die tijd dat zo gedaan zou kunnen hebben.
Ben er ook van overtuigd dat het verhaal in grote lijnen klopt wat joran zegt. Maar op bepaalde punten zegt hij ook tegen patrick niet wat er echt is gebeurt.
Kijk naar zijn ogen (blik) op het moment dat hij zegt dat die "vriend" zich over het het lichaam buigt om te kijken of ze echt dood is.
Zowiezo als je als helper/vriend daar aankomt en ervan uitgaande dat natalee buiten bewustzijn is geraakt door alcohol/drugs( iig niet door toedoen van joran) dan ga je toch minimaal aan de pols voelen, ademhaling controleren etc. Dan ga je toch niet alleen over haar heen buigen en KIJKEN of ze nog leeft.
[ Bericht 8% gewijzigd door ZoneKill op 05-02-2008 09:49:44 ]
De krant heeft niks toe te voegen, beetje net als Peter dus. 
Wat hij wel heeft bereikt is dat nu iedereen weet dat die Joran helemaal niet deugt.
Ik vermoed ook dat er meer mensen bij betrokken waren. Dáár had Peter beter achteraan kunnen gaan ipv de boel meteen met veel poeha in de openbaarheid te gooien, had hij eens flink moeten spitten in wat er destijds boven kwam drijven en werd weggemoffeld.
Wat hij wel heeft bereikt is dat nu iedereen weet dat die Joran helemaal niet deugt.
Ik vermoed ook dat er meer mensen bij betrokken waren. Dáár had Peter beter achteraan kunnen gaan ipv de boel meteen met veel poeha in de openbaarheid te gooien, had hij eens flink moeten spitten in wat er destijds boven kwam drijven en werd weggemoffeld.
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
Lijkt mij een te farfetched en ook te specifieke theorie, zonder dat je die kunt bewijzen. Northernstar heeft volgens mij een vrij onwaarschijnlijke theorie geproduceerd dus.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:23 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:
[..]
Langzaam ben ik ook een beetje aan dit verhaal gaan denken.
iig dat die vader er een stuk meer vanaf weet. Toch moet dan nagetrokken worden of die vader theoretisch binnen die tijd dat zo gedaan zou kunnen hebben.
Overigens denk ik dat Paul van der Sloot helemaal geen rol speelt in het relaas.
I´m back.
Ja interessant... die vader is tenslotte ook opgepakt.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:23 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:
[..]
Langzaam ben ik ook een beetje aan dit verhaal gaan denken.
iig dat die vader er een stuk meer vanaf weet. Toch moet dan nagetrokken worden of die vader theoretisch binnen die tijd dat zo gedaan zou kunnen hebben.
To deny our impulses would deny the very thing that make us human.
NorthernStar waarom is Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) gesloten of dicht ?
wordt zo wel een zooitje
nagegaan moet worden of Guido over een boot beschikte of kon beschikken
hij was immers ook in het casino als hulp croupier > staat zelfs op de casino foto's
en van wie is deze boot ? Gottenboes Boat staat erbij
foto van scared monkeys
wordt zo wel een zooitje
nagegaan moet worden of Guido over een boot beschikte of kon beschikken
hij was immers ook in het casino als hulp croupier > staat zelfs op de casino foto's
en van wie is deze boot ? Gottenboes Boat staat erbij
foto van scared monkeys
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Het vorige topic had 300 posts dan gaat er automatisch een slotje opquote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:42 schreef johan555 het volgende:
NorthernStar waarom is Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) gesloten of dicht ?
wordt zo wel een zooitje
nagegaan moet worden of Guido over een boot beschikte of kon beschikken
hij was immers ook in het casino als hulp croupier > staat zelfs op de casino foto's
en van wie is deze boot ? Gottenboes Boat staat erbij
[ afbeelding ]
foto van scared monkeys
JoOlz: "So much good shit in senesta's head, I call it Ideahhrea."
waar staat Gottenboes boat dan?quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:42 schreef johan555 het volgende:
en van wie is deze boot ? Gottenboes Boat staat erbij
[ afbeelding ]
foto van scared monkeys
Op dinsdag 17 april 2007 14:13 schreef Gia het volgende over haar kinderen:
al zitten die op het vmbo, ze denken in ieder geval logischer dan goofup.
al zitten die op het vmbo, ze denken in ieder geval logischer dan goofup.
ABOUT !!!! Gottenbos
GOTTENBOS, Koen (DOB 4-12-1988) – Joran’s Dutch friend, who is reportedly a cousin, nickname “Cul”. Father owns a boat. Reportedly was so scared after Natalee's disappearance, that he slept in his Mother's bed. Has known Joran since they were babies. In recent photos he is seen to have had a substantial weight gain. The Gottenbos are said to be residing in the greater metropolitan area of Atlanta, Georgia, USA. Interviewed by ALE on 4 occasions, 6-16-05, 6-18-05, 6-20-05 & 8-30-05.
Broer >GOTTENBOS, Sander (DOB 1-17-90) – Koen’s younger brother, nickname “Nepi.” Has known Joran since he was a baby. Knew Satish for 2 years prior and Deepak for 1 year prior to Natalee's disappearance. Invited Joran to go out in his father's boat that Sunday, 5-29-05. Reports his cell phone was stolen on 5-30-05. Interviewed by ALE on 2 occasions, 6-16-05 & 6-17-05.
GOTTENBOS, Koen (DOB 4-12-1988) – Joran’s Dutch friend, who is reportedly a cousin, nickname “Cul”. Father owns a boat. Reportedly was so scared after Natalee's disappearance, that he slept in his Mother's bed. Has known Joran since they were babies. In recent photos he is seen to have had a substantial weight gain. The Gottenbos are said to be residing in the greater metropolitan area of Atlanta, Georgia, USA. Interviewed by ALE on 4 occasions, 6-16-05, 6-18-05, 6-20-05 & 8-30-05.
Broer >GOTTENBOS, Sander (DOB 1-17-90) – Koen’s younger brother, nickname “Nepi.” Has known Joran since he was a baby. Knew Satish for 2 years prior and Deepak for 1 year prior to Natalee's disappearance. Invited Joran to go out in his father's boat that Sunday, 5-29-05. Reports his cell phone was stolen on 5-30-05. Interviewed by ALE on 2 occasions, 6-16-05 & 6-17-05.
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Kids worden steeds jonger joh.
Joran kwam eerst met een oudere man.
Toen iemand van 25.
En nu op 31 mei 2005 twee knapen van resp. 16 en 15.
Misschien dat de Gottenbossen nog een nakomertje als broertje hadden van 10 op 31 mei 2005? Dan was dat de bootjongen wellicht.
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Ryan3 op 05-02-2008 11:00:13 ]
Joran kwam eerst met een oudere man.
Toen iemand van 25.
En nu op 31 mei 2005 twee knapen van resp. 16 en 15.
Misschien dat de Gottenbossen nog een nakomertje als broertje hadden van 10 op 31 mei 2005? Dan was dat de bootjongen wellicht.
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Ryan3 op 05-02-2008 11:00:13 ]
I´m back.
I didn't read the complete previous topic, but does this scaredmonkey guy make any statements about the payphone which Joran said he used that night...
Was it there, can you only use for calls outside the island etc...?
Was it there, can you only use for calls outside the island etc...?
Because the topic was fullquote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:42 schreef johan555 het volgende:
NorthernStar waarom is Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) gesloten of dicht ?
wordt zo wel een zooitje
nagegaan moet worden of Guido over een boot beschikte of kon beschikken
hij was immers ook in het casino als hulp croupier > staat zelfs op de casino foto's
en van wie is deze boot ? Gottenboes Boat staat erbij
[ afbeelding ]
foto van scared monkeys
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
The one aired in one of Peter R's shows wasn't even there, so it seems, in 2005.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:58 schreef cptmarco het volgende:
I didn't read the complete previous topic, but does this scaredmonkey guy make any statements about the payphone which Joran said he used that night...
Was it there, can you only use for calls outside the island etc...?
The one that was there wasn't a regular payphone. You could only use a cc to place a call.
I´m back.
Als je voor "Daury" Paulus invult gaan er toch wat dingen op zijn plek vallen imo.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:23 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:
[..]
Langzaam ben ik ook een beetje aan dit verhaal gaan denken.
iig dat die vader er een stuk meer vanaf weet.
- "Hij kent me al mijn hele leven"
- zou hem nooit verraden, neemt liever zijn naam mee in het graf, zou voor hem sterven
en
- doet alles wat "Daury" hem opdraag: Ga naar huis, werk aan je alibi, doe morgen gewoon je normale dingen
Dit is van scared monkeys
Ook zo wat opmerkingen in Jorans gesprekken met Patrick zoals dat hij ergens ineens zegt dat zijn familie er niks mee te maken heeft.quote:I just did a little refreshing of my memory with the car tape and am bringing this excerpt here, in light of recent events, for your thoughts..............
Joran: The only thing that I can think of is my family. I do what my family
tells me to do. Right, retard.
Deepak: Your own father, unbelievable.
Joran: What my father, it is your fault that he is arrested. I didn't
declare anything against my father, you two declared against my father
Satish: We didn't declare anything.
Joran: Or course, you did.
Satish: What did I tell against your father?
Joran: You are telling that he declared, that if there is no body [lijk =
dead body], there is no case or I don't what. All shit. That is totally not
true, the only thing is that he said is, if there is no body [lichaam =
body], then there isn't a case.
Deepak: Yes, that's true.
Joran: That's not true.
Deepak: I also said in my statement, that it wasn't meant like that.
Joran: Didn't read it in your statement. They use that now against my
father.
Deepak: We suffered a lot because of you.
Joran: That's the price that you let my father pay. That you let him suffer
like that. Fuck you. If you let me suffer, I say ok. It doesn't matter to
me. I can just sit here for 160 days. It doesn't make a fucking difference
to me. I'm sitting good here.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2571.msg341189#msg341189
Of als Patrick vraagt of zijn ouders niks gemerkt hebben toen hij midden in de nacht thuiskwam. Dat Joran dan nogal extra overdreven benadrukt dat zijn ouders, zijn vader al heel beslist in bed lag.
Wat Senesta zeg. Het is zo ingesteld dat topics na 300 posts automatisch dichtgaan. Kunnen we niks aan doen. Ja, een nieuw deel openen.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:42 schreef johan555 het volgende:
NorthernStar waarom is Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) gesloten of dicht ?
wordt zo wel een zooitje
Peter R made a good point yesterday, and looking at his face he was quite surprised himself that he figured it out that fast.
Joran called to the Pauw&Witteman show, making a statement that with the pay phone you can only call to other country's. In response Peter said that the guy that supposed have helped Joran dispose the body, might have had a dutch phone. Knowing that he is staying in Holland right now, why not have an dutch sim-card.
Very clever of Joran to call to the show and blowing smoke over his tracks. Too bad for him it wasn't smart at all.
Joran called to the Pauw&Witteman show, making a statement that with the pay phone you can only call to other country's. In response Peter said that the guy that supposed have helped Joran dispose the body, might have had a dutch phone. Knowing that he is staying in Holland right now, why not have an dutch sim-card.
Very clever of Joran to call to the show and blowing smoke over his tracks. Too bad for him it wasn't smart at all.
- Maybe O.D.B My Long Distance Family -
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
Joran kan natuurlijk ook met Natalee's telefoon gebeld hebben en daarna weggegooid
deze man weet hierover meer volgens mij
CROES, Charles August II (DOB 9-15-45 USA) - Aruban cell phone business owner contacted by the Twittys to help them locate those who were seen with their daughter the night/early morning of May 29/30. Natalee reportedly made 2 calls in the early morning hours of May 30, 2005. Owner of cellular phone company DigiCell.
deze man weet hierover meer volgens mij
CROES, Charles August II (DOB 9-15-45 USA) - Aruban cell phone business owner contacted by the Twittys to help them locate those who were seen with their daughter the night/early morning of May 29/30. Natalee reportedly made 2 calls in the early morning hours of May 30, 2005. Owner of cellular phone company DigiCell.
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Ik bedoel ook niet echt dat ik dat verhaal als het gene wat er gebeurt is beschouw, maar bijna niets is meer onwaarschijnlijk in deze zaak en tenslotte was joran helemaal alleen op het strand met haar dus kon hij in feite alles doen misschien ook wetende dat ze de volgende morgen zou vertrekken en waarschijnlijk zich dan toch niets meer kon herinneren wat er die nacht gebeurt was omdat ze verdoofd was door alcohol/drugs (een shot 75% alcohol voor een 18jarige hakt er denk ik behoorlijk in zeker als ze al het nodige op had).quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:27 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
Lijkt mij een te farfetched en ook te specifieke theorie, zonder dat je die kunt bewijzen. Northernstar heeft volgens mij een vrij onwaarschijnlijke theorie geproduceerd dus.
Overigens denk ik dat Paul van der Sloot helemaal geen rol speelt in het relaas.
En volgens mij is het toch ook wel duidelijk dat joran een steekje of 2 los heeft en geen respect voor vrouwen cq een mensenleven lijkt te hebben.
De vader speelt helemaal geen rol? Lijkt me echt onzin, joran zegt dat zijn vader een telefoon bezorgde in de cel. En dat zijn vader het beter vond voor een eventuele schadevergoeding om bij P&W te gaan zitten.
Dan blijft zoals ik al zei de vraag of die vader kwa tijd in staat zou zijn geweest om joran op het strand te helpen. Ik twijfel ook sterk of die vader daar toe echt in staat is geweest.
But that guy didn't only use a Dutch sim card, he also actually was in Holland at the very same time, wasn't he?quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:09 schreef Ticker het volgende:
Peter R made a good point yesterday, and looking at his face he was quite surprised himself that he figured it out that fast.
Joran called to the Pauw&Witteman show, making a statement that with the phone you can only call to other country's. I response peter said that the guy that supposed to help Joran dispose the body, might have had a duch phone. Knowing that he is staying in Holland right now, why not have an dutch sim-card.
I´m back.
ah intressant maar daar zal toch al wel aan gedacht zijn?quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:10 schreef johan555 het volgende:
Joran kan natuurlijk ook met Natalee's telefoon gebeld hebben en daarna weggegooid
deze man weet hierover meer volgens mij
[ afbeelding ]
CROES, Charles August II (DOB 9-15-45 USA) - Aruban cell phone business owner contacted by the Twittys to help them locate those who were seen with their daughter the night/early morning of May 29/30. Natalee reportedly made 2 calls in the early morning hours of May 30, 2005. Owner of cellular phone company DigiCell.
JoOlz: "So much good shit in senesta's head, I call it Ideahhrea."
If we assume that he is telling to truth.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:13 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
But that guy didn't only use a Dutch sim card, he also actually was in Holland at the very same time, wasn't he?
But we can also assume that in Aruba there are lots of teens with dutch sim-cards. So it's not necessery that Joran called Audri, and it's probably that Joran is still lying about the real name of the person(s) who helped him.
So again a mix of tales.
He did use the phone, but might not have called Audri. That's why he would make an effort to call to the show of Paul&Witteman, just to tell them he did not tell the truth to patrick about the phone part.
In fact he really did use the phone.
- Maybe O.D.B My Long Distance Family -
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
Jeah sure, but he could be lying about the death of Natalee also though. So absulely nothing is sure after Peter R's show. Perhaps he even killed her, perhaps he left her while she was still alive.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:15 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[..]
If we assume that he is telling to truth.
But we can also assume that in Aruba there are lots of teens with dutch sim-cards. So it's not necessery that Joran called Audri, and it's probably that Joran is still lying about the real name of the person(s) who helped him.
His confession was not a confession, I'm afraid.
I´m back.
Sure it is. Better yes afcourse it is.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:19 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
Jeah sure, but he could be lying about the death of Natalee also though. So absulely nothing is sure after Peter R's show. Perhaps he even killed her, perhaps he left her while she was still alive.
His confession was not a confession, I'm afraid.
It would be a disgrace to say that with the hours footage you can not see that Joran is telling the outlines of the story.
Either that, or you just have an hard time telling if people are talking truth or trash.
Body language sais it all.
- Maybe O.D.B My Long Distance Family -
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
Wat mij ook altijd zeer bevreemd heeft is dat joran praktisch vanaf de 1e seconde zich bewust was van het feit dat hij een alibi, dwaalspoor, bewijsmateriaal (schoenen weggooien), leugens moest vertellen.
Dit vindt ik zeer onwaarschijnlijk voor een jongen van 17 die nota bene zoals hij zelf zegt niet eens aangedrongen had om natalee mee te nemen maar het juist natalee zelf was die met hem ergens heen wilde.
Vandaar dat ik denk dat die vader er meer vanaf weet.
Dit vindt ik zeer onwaarschijnlijk voor een jongen van 17 die nota bene zoals hij zelf zegt niet eens aangedrongen had om natalee mee te nemen maar het juist natalee zelf was die met hem ergens heen wilde.
Vandaar dat ik denk dat die vader er meer vanaf weet.
What I saw was a fucked up kid, who wanted to make an impression on his friend, who was an cool, elderly, criminal.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:26 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[..]
Sure it is. Better yes afcourse it is.
It would be a disgrace to say that with the hours footage you can not see that Joran is telling the outlines of the story.
Either that, or you just have an hard time telling if people are talking truth or trash.
Body language sais it all.
I´m back.
That much is true.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:19 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
Jeah sure, but he could be lying about the death of Natalee also though. So absulely nothing is sure after Peter R's show. Perhaps he even killed her, perhaps he left her while she was still alive.
His confession was not a confession, I'm afraid.
LOL Nu.nlquote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:30 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
What I saw was a fucked up kid, who wanted to make an impression on his friend, who was an cool, elderly, criminal.
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
deze is boat owner en is iets ouder
GEERMAN, Marciano – Boat owner
http://www.morningstararuba.com/crew/crew.htm
[ Bericht 5% gewijzigd door johan555 op 05-02-2008 11:18:04 ]
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
He is telling the outlines of a particular story, in which facts are true and some facts are not true.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:26 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[..]
Sure it is. Better yes afcourse it is.
It would be a disgrace to say that with the hours footage you can not see that Joran is telling the outlines of the story.
This makes the 'confession' that much harder; every statement Joran makes has to be backed up by proof, otherwise there is no telling if its the truth.
I disagree; its a well known fact Joran is a competent lyer and cheat. He has even been admitted for psych-care for his compulsive lying. This makes it very hard to just go with his statement and treat it as 'the truth'.quote:Either that, or you just have an hard time telling if people are talking truth or trash.
Body language sais it all.
Danny Kaye once had a movie that depicted that disorder. The life of Walter Mitty or something. And it actually is called the Walter Mitty disorder, I thought. And judging bij what Joran said (by telephone call at P&W's) he is aware that he has this affliction.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
He is telling the outlines of a particular story, in which facts are true and some facts are not true.
This makes the 'confession' that much harder; every statement Joran makes has to be backed up by proof, otherwise there is no telling if its the truth.
[..]
I disagree; its a well known fact Joran is a competent lyer and cheat. He has even been admitted for psych-care for his compulsive lying. This makes it very hard to just go with his statement and treat it as 'the truth'.
I think he has a bad case of it too.
I´m back.
ja, je kunt iedere boot van het hele eiland laten zien en daar de eigenaren bij posten en zodoende deze in het complot kunnen betrekken.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:35 schreef johan555 het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]
deze is boat owner en is iets ouder
GEERMAN, Marciano – Boat owner
GEERMAN MARCIANO L.G. SMITH BLVD. 544
http://www.morningstararuba.com/crew/crew.htm
Misschien is dat boot verhaal niet eens de waarheid. Is ze op een heel andere manier gedumpt.
Yoran praatte over de politie en voorheen wilde die 'vriend' in de Rangerover niets weten over hoe en wat, en nu vraagt hij ineens wat er gebeurd is, waar ze is en wie er allemaal meededen en hoe.
Na alle beschuldigingen en verhoren en leugens is Yoran al paranoïde. Als iemand dan voorheen niets wilde weten en nu ineens uitermate geïnteresseerd is in het verhaal, kan ik me voorstellen dat hij er een voor hem een beetje schikkend verhaal van maakt. Een nieuw dwaalspoor dus.
Op dinsdag 17 april 2007 14:13 schreef Gia het volgende over haar kinderen:
al zitten die op het vmbo, ze denken in ieder geval logischer dan goofup.
al zitten die op het vmbo, ze denken in ieder geval logischer dan goofup.
was it: "blub, blub, blub and fuck a shark" on someones voivcemail...quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:10 schreef johan555 het volgende:
Natalee reportedly made 2 calls in the early morning hours of May 30, 2005. Owner of cellular phone company DigiCell.
Als blijkt dat die Daury er echt niets mee te maken heeft dan blijven er wat mij betreft eventueel 2 opties open.
1- Joran is letterlijk doodsbang om te zeggen wie hem geholpen heeft (onderwereld figuren die het lichaam hebben opgeruimd en hem kapot maken als hij gaat praten)
2- Zijn vader heeft op 1 of andere manier ook meegeholpen in de verdwijning.
Omdat hij vaag doet over wie geholpen heeft en dus onschuldige kennissen verre/oude vrienden gaat aanvoeren als helpers. Net zoals hij die 2 broers ff meetrekt in zijn verhaal en die broers kon hij pas kort paar maanden dus die broers wisten ook niet precies wat joran voor een figuur is.
1- Joran is letterlijk doodsbang om te zeggen wie hem geholpen heeft (onderwereld figuren die het lichaam hebben opgeruimd en hem kapot maken als hij gaat praten)
2- Zijn vader heeft op 1 of andere manier ook meegeholpen in de verdwijning.
Omdat hij vaag doet over wie geholpen heeft en dus onschuldige kennissen verre/oude vrienden gaat aanvoeren als helpers. Net zoals hij die 2 broers ff meetrekt in zijn verhaal en die broers kon hij pas kort paar maanden dus die broers wisten ook niet precies wat joran voor een figuur is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Walter_Mitty
Persoonlijk ben ik trouwens niet zo onder de indruk van PRdV's argumenten dat ie een 'sting operatie' had en dat Joran d'r met open ogen ingetuind was. Ik acht het heel goed mogelijk dat Joran op enig moment 'de rat geroken heeft ' en consequent heeft meegespeeld. Zijn "bekentenis" komt er namelijk op neer dat hij schuldig is aan het belemmeren van een onderzoek EN medeplichtigheid aan het ontvreemden van een lijk.
Da's wel redelijk 'afbetaald' met de reeds in hechtenis/voorarrest doorgebrachte tijd.
Wel heft hij aangetoond dat PRdV (en het TV station dat het uitzond) zich 100% schuldig hebben gemaakt aan zaken waarvoor bijvoorbeeld iemand als Maurice de Hond toch minstens een tonnetje moet betalen.
Die zeven miljoen kijkers hebben iemand gelld opgeleverd en DAAR wil Joran ook wel een flinke hap uit...
Persoonlijk ben ik trouwens niet zo onder de indruk van PRdV's argumenten dat ie een 'sting operatie' had en dat Joran d'r met open ogen ingetuind was. Ik acht het heel goed mogelijk dat Joran op enig moment 'de rat geroken heeft ' en consequent heeft meegespeeld. Zijn "bekentenis" komt er namelijk op neer dat hij schuldig is aan het belemmeren van een onderzoek EN medeplichtigheid aan het ontvreemden van een lijk.
Da's wel redelijk 'afbetaald' met de reeds in hechtenis/voorarrest doorgebrachte tijd.
Wel heft hij aangetoond dat PRdV (en het TV station dat het uitzond) zich 100% schuldig hebben gemaakt aan zaken waarvoor bijvoorbeeld iemand als Maurice de Hond toch minstens een tonnetje moet betalen.
Die zeven miljoen kijkers hebben iemand gelld opgeleverd en DAAR wil Joran ook wel een flinke hap uit...
I know, that's what made me laughquote:
He 's a clever enough to make good use of his * disorder *
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
1. Why should they do that service? Because Joran's father was a judge trainee?quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:00 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:
Als blijkt dat die Daury er echt niets mee te maken heeft dan blijven er wat mij betreft eventueel 2 opties open.
1- Joran is letterlijk doodsbang om te zeggen wie hem geholpen heeft (onderwereld figuren die het lichaam hebben opgeruimd en hem kapot maken als hij gaat praten)
2- Zijn vader heeft op 1 of andere manier ook meegeholpen in de verdwijning.
Omdat hij vaag doet over wie geholpen heeft en dus onschuldige kennissen verre/oude vrienden gaat aanvoeren als helpers. Net zoals hij die 2 broers ff meetrekt in zijn verhaal en die broers kon hij pas kort paar maanden dus die broers wisten ook niet precies wat joran voor een figuur is.
2 There is no compelling reason to suggest that that was the case imho. Of course people are trying to smear the reputation of Paul van der Sloot, or so I read. But is there really any ground to think that this Dutch judge trainee is in reality someone who, when he learns that a girlfriend of his son had died, would loose her body in the sea? That's so improbable.
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Ryan3 op 05-02-2008 11:13:58 ]
I´m back.
Ga nu alsjeblieft niet net als joran er mensen bij halen die er waarschijnlijk helemaal niets mee te maken hebben.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:35 schreef johan555 het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]
deze is boat owner en is iets ouder
GEERMAN, Marciano – Boat owner
GEERMAN MARCIANO L.G. SMITH BLVD. 544
http://www.morningstararuba.com/crew/crew.htm
Laat namen van mensen en foto's hier a.u.b. weg. Je brengt mensen in problemen die er zeer waarschijnlijk helemaal niets mee te maken hebben.
Het is toch niet te geloven dat daar in arnhem dacht ik, een buurvrouwtje gaat zeggen dat er op nummer XXX iemand woont die volgens haar ongeveer joran heet. En dan 10tallen mensen bij die onschuldige op deuren en ramen gaan staan bonken.
Joran is blijkbaar naar het strand gegaan en heeft of in z'n mobiel een nummer van iemand zitten die ie zoo maar even kan bellen om een lijk te doen verdwijnen of nog erger ,hij kent dat nummer uit z'n hoofd .
wie loopt er met nummers rond van dat soort duistere figuren ?
Dat moet toch dan een goeie bekende zijn die nogal wat op z'n kerfstok heeft
dat moet iemand uit die porno wereld zijn of uit het criminele mileu
het kan ook zijn dat guido vanuit orangestad gekomen is met een dikke speedboot
dat is vlakbij en dan even 5 km de zee op varen en de klus is rond
who is Guido ?
WEVER, Guido– 19 years old, former resident of Aruba, now residing in the NL. Was a croupier at the Excelsior Casino. Said to have left Aruba abruptly within weeks of Natalee’s disappearance after being questioned by ALE. Reported to be good friends with Joran, and gambling with him on May 30/31 when Natalee’s loved ones arrived in Aruba. Arrested on 5-20-06, released on 5-23-06, under suspicion of accessory to murder, kidnapping and battery. Drove a white Nissan Sentra.
wie loopt er met nummers rond van dat soort duistere figuren ?
Dat moet toch dan een goeie bekende zijn die nogal wat op z'n kerfstok heeft
dat moet iemand uit die porno wereld zijn of uit het criminele mileu
het kan ook zijn dat guido vanuit orangestad gekomen is met een dikke speedboot
dat is vlakbij en dan even 5 km de zee op varen en de klus is rond
who is Guido ?
WEVER, Guido– 19 years old, former resident of Aruba, now residing in the NL. Was a croupier at the Excelsior Casino. Said to have left Aruba abruptly within weeks of Natalee’s disappearance after being questioned by ALE. Reported to be good friends with Joran, and gambling with him on May 30/31 when Natalee’s loved ones arrived in Aruba. Arrested on 5-20-06, released on 5-23-06, under suspicion of accessory to murder, kidnapping and battery. Drove a white Nissan Sentra.
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
er is een lijst van " mogelijke" verdachten en daar staat hij wel op
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Don't know how clever he is though.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:08 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
[..]
I know, that's what made me laugh
He 's a clever enough to make good use of his * disorder *
I´m back.
Like Steve Croes, I presume.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:14 schreef johan555 het volgende:
er is een lijst van " mogelijke" verdachten en daar staat hij wel op
.
I´m back.
Have you even seen the broadcast in detail?quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
He is telling the outlines of a particular story, in which facts are true and some facts are not true.
This makes the 'confession' that much harder; every statement Joran makes has to be backed up by proof, otherwise there is no telling if its the truth.
[..]
I disagree; its a well known fact Joran is a competent lyer and cheat. He has even been admitted for psych-care for his compulsive lying. This makes it very hard to just go with his statement and treat it as 'the truth'.
A person that spills his guts the first time he can talk about in, in such a rapid way is not lying.
It was the second day that Patrick brought it up again, and started asking for he name of the person.
The first day Joran talked about this person or people he named them 'higher powers" and a name 'he would take to the gave'.
The day after he migth have had a night sleep about it, thinkig that telling patrick the story in details isn't necessary and thus changing some names and people in this story.
You also seem to forget the way Joran reacted to Pauw&Witteman, the day the world got story about the hidden camera tapes, and asked him about it on phone.
He was stuttering, not knowing in what way this could inflict him, still believing Patrick is his friend.
I mean he told everyone he knew this girl is dead. Why act as a attorney for him by making stuff up that would only make the story more complicated then it is.
- Maybe O.D.B My Long Distance Family -
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
1. Misschien...quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:08 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
1. Why should they do that service? Because Joran's father was a judge trainee?
2 There is no compelling reeason to suggest that that was the case imho. Of course people are trying to smear the reputation of Paul van der Sloot, or so I read. But is there really any ground to think that this Dutch judge trainee is in reality someone who, when he learns that a girlfriend of his son had died, would loose her body in the sea? That's so improbable.
2. Zoals ik al in een vorige post schreef lijkt het mij ook niet zeer waarschijnlijk dat die vader dat zelf heeft gedaan. Hij zou er eventueel wel bij betrokken geweest kunnen zijn, maar zoals ik ook weer eerder schreef moet de recherche onderzoek doen of de vader theoretisch de tijd had om te helpen of op een andere manier weet had van wat er afspeelde die nacht.
Yes, I have seen it.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:18 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[..]
Have you even seen the broadcast in detail?
Why are you so determined that he "spilled his guts" ? He has been telling lies to everybody for the past 2 years, and now, all of a sudden, he would tell the truth that is so convenient for everybody?quote:A person that spills his guts the first time he can talk about in, in such a rapid way is not lying.
I don`t know. I have my reservations as to wether or not this boy isn`t fooling us all by 'confessing' to a minor crime, and getting away with a big one (e.g. the murdering of Natalee).
Disinformation is the key to Joran`s case; he is telling things that are either not true, very hard to proof or cannot be verified at this time. Don`t make a mistake and believe his statement he so dramatically makes in this car. As it is what I said earlier; Joran story is very hard to check up on...quote:It was the second day that Patrick brought it up again, and started asking for he name of the person.
The first day Joran talked about this person or people he named them 'higher powers" and a name 'he would take to the gave'.
The day after he migth have had a night sleep about it, thinkig that telling patrick the story in details isn't necessary and thus changing some names and people in this story.
He was calm, and had to think before he would give a reaction to P&W. This means either one of two things;quote:You also seem to forget the way Joran reacted to Pauw&Witteman, the day the world got story about the hidden camera tapes, and asked him about it on phone.
He was stuttering, not knowing in what way this could inflict him, still believing Patrick is his friend.
1. He has to think about what he is saying, because he wants to keep the lie standing fierce, so he has to make up explanations that will suit his case.
2. He is indeed frightened that the confession might open up the case once again.
I`m slighty believing that option 1 is the most probable outcome; Joran is a mastermind in telling stories.
I am not? What a person says is still not the same as the actual deed itself.quote:I mean he told everyone he knew this girl is dead. Why act as a attorney for him by making stuff up that would only make the story more complicated then it is.
You seem to forget that after 2.5 years of lying to everybody, he now will suddenly tell the truth?
I`m not that enthoustiatic about his explanation, and still believe he was even lying then.
O but I agree on that, Joran isn't telling the whole truth about how Natalee died.quote:
- Maybe O.D.B My Long Distance Family -
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
Finally, a topic we agree onquote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:36 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[..]
O but I agree on that, Joran isn't telling the whole truth about how Natalee died.
My positoin is that it is not even close to subtility what their counterparts are doing. Paul is supposedly a womanizer and he drinks a lot, and so he must have knowledge of the drugs related underground on Aruba, and so he's apt to help his son in such a hot spot.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:21 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:
[..]
1. Misschien...
2. Zoals ik al in een vorige post schreef lijkt het mij ook niet zeer waarschijnlijk dat die vader dat zelf heeft gedaan. Hij zou er eventueel wel bij betrokken geweest kunnen zijn, maar zoals ik ook weer eerder schreef moet de recherche onderzoek doen of de vader theoretisch de tijd had om te helpen of op een andere manier weet had van wat er afspeelde die nacht.
Probably this sort of assumption is created by Mrs.Twitty, the hard boiled christian. Not even only Joran is a bad peron, also his father must be (hey and he is suppossed to be a womanizer hey, and he drinks a lot hey), and hell even the whole of Holland must be.
[ Bericht 1% gewijzigd door Ryan3 op 05-02-2008 12:46:35 ]
I´m back.
Hoe zien psychopaten eruit?
Psychopaten hebben grote problemen in hun gevoelens en relaties met anderen. Acht van de kenmerken in de PCLR hebben te maken met deze problemen in gevoelens en relaties met anderen. Een prototype psychopaat is oppervlakkig in contact met anderen; hij heeft vaak sterke verhalen, en probeert zich beter voor te doen dan hij is, waarbij hij vaak wel als charmant overkomt (gladde prater/opppervlakkige charme). Het is een opschepper die een veel te positieve inschatting heeft van zijn talenten en vaardigheden (sterk opgeblazen gevoel van eigenwaarde). Een psychopaat is typisch een notoire leugenaar die er meestal geen enkele moeite mee heeft wanneer hij wordt betrapt op een leugen. Hij heeft meestal overal een excuus of reden voor en wil nog wel eens iets op “erewoord beloven” ook al blijkt dat erewoord haast nooit wat waard te zijn (pathologisch liegen). De psychopaat kent geen schuldgevoelens of gevoelens van spijt over de dingen die hij anderen aandoet. Hij kan zeggen dat het slachtoffer het verdiende om zo behandeld te worden of dat het slachtoffer eigenlijk niets bijzonders is aangedaan (gebrek aan berouw of schuldgevoel). Hij is niet in staat of niet bereid om de verantwoordelijkheid te nemen voor zijn eigen gedragingen. Het zijn altijd anderen die de schuld krijgen of er is altijd wel een excuus te vinden voor de dingen die een psychopaat heeft gedaan (geen verantwoordelijkheid nemen voor het eigen gedrag). De prototype psychopaat manipuleert en bedriegt anderen zonder daarbij aandacht te hebben voor wat dat voor anderen betekent, waarbij hij nogal eens crimineel gedrag vertoont in de vorm van bijvoorbeeld fraude en verduistering en niet-crimineel gedrag in de vorm van overspel en het aftroggelen van geld van familieleden (list en bedrog/manipulerend gedrag). Een psychopaat komt op anderen over als koud en ongevoelig. Zijn “emoties” doen vaak aan als dramatisch, kortstondig en onecht (ontbreken aan emotionele diepgang). In al zijn gedragingen en meningen toont een psychopaat weinig respect voor de rechten, gevoelens en het welzijn van anderen. Hij beschouwt andere mensen als potentiële slachtoffers die te manipuleren zijn en beschouwt zichzelf als de belangrijkste persoon die er is (kil/gebrek aan empathie).
Naast problemen in hun gevoelens en relaties met anderen, hebben psychopaten grote problemen in hun levensstijl. Negen kenmerken in de PCLR geven deze problemen in de levensstijl weer. Een psychopaat heeft een zeer sterke behoefte tot stimulatie en een ongebruikelijk sterke afkeer van verveling. Hij leidt doorgaans een snel leven met veel risicogedragingen en experimenteren met drugs en hij vindt dat school, werk en langdurende relaties saai en vervelend zijn (prikkelhongerig/neiging tot verveling). Een psychopaat kiest er vaak voor om te teren op de zak van zijn familie, partner of vrienden, en vermijdt het hebben van een vaste baan (parasitaire levensstijl). Kenmerkend is dat er vaak sprake is van opvliegendheid en een slechte beheersing. Op mislukkingen, kritiek en frustraties reageert een psychopaat vaak met geweld, scheldpartijen of bedreigingen, waarbij deze reacties even snel kunnen ophouden als ze begonnen zijn (gebrekkige beheersing van gedrag). Een psychopaat gedraagt zich vaak uitermate impulsief, zonder echt stil te staan bij de voors en tegens van bepaalde gedragingen. Relaties worden nogal eens beëindigd, banen worden nogal eens opgezegd en verhuizingen vinden nogal eens plaats zonder dat anderen daarover worden geïnformeerd en zonder dat de beslissing daartoe echt goed is overdacht (impulsiviteit). De psychopaat toont geen verantwoordelijkheidsgevoel of loyaliteit naar familie, vrienden, werkgevers, huisbazen of anderen. Zijn omgang met geld is vaak bedroevend, hij heeft vaak schulden, gaat vaak beroerd om met zakenrelaties, en is zijn familie vaak enorm tot last (onverantwoordelijk gedrag). Een psychopaat heeft geen plannen of doelen voor de lange termijn. Hij leeft van dag tot dag en verandert zijn plannen continu, en stoort zich er niet aan dat zijn leven vrij inhoudsloos is (ontbreken van realistische doelen op de lange termijn). De kinderjaren kenmerken zich door tal van problemen zoals liegen, vechtpartijen, diefstalletjes, berovingen, brandstichtingen en uitingen van geweld tegen mens en dier. De psychopaat staat daardoor vaak al vroeg bekend als het zwarte schaap van de familie (gedragsproblemen op jonge leeftijd). De tienerjaren kenmerken zich door ernstig antisociaal gedrag en door arrestaties en veroordelingen vanwege criminele gedragingen (jeugdcriminaliteit). Als volwassene onderneemt de gedetineerde psychopaat ontsnappingspogingen uit gevangenissen, keert hij niet terug van weekendverloven, begaat hij delicten tijdens zijn voorwaardelijke invrijheidsstelling, en breekt hij de voorwaarden van de voorwaardelijke gevangenisstraf (schending van voorwaardelijke invrijheidsstelling).
Drie resterende kenmerken in de PCLR zijn weliswaar problematisch maar hebben minder duidelijk betrekking op gevoelens en relaties met anderen of op de levensstijl. De drie kenmerken betreffen seksuele losbandigheid, een verleden met veel huwlijken en/of samenwoonrelaties, en een strafblad met veel verschillende soorten delicten. Deze 20 kenmerken beschrijven de echte psychopaat. In de praktijk zal men echter niemand tegenkomen met precies deze kenmerken. Vaak lijken kenmerken op de beschreven kenmerken maar zijn zij niet helemaal hetzelfde. Ook zal men tegenkomen dat sommige kenmerken wel aanwezig zijn maar andere niet
Psychopaten hebben grote problemen in hun gevoelens en relaties met anderen. Acht van de kenmerken in de PCLR hebben te maken met deze problemen in gevoelens en relaties met anderen. Een prototype psychopaat is oppervlakkig in contact met anderen; hij heeft vaak sterke verhalen, en probeert zich beter voor te doen dan hij is, waarbij hij vaak wel als charmant overkomt (gladde prater/opppervlakkige charme). Het is een opschepper die een veel te positieve inschatting heeft van zijn talenten en vaardigheden (sterk opgeblazen gevoel van eigenwaarde). Een psychopaat is typisch een notoire leugenaar die er meestal geen enkele moeite mee heeft wanneer hij wordt betrapt op een leugen. Hij heeft meestal overal een excuus of reden voor en wil nog wel eens iets op “erewoord beloven” ook al blijkt dat erewoord haast nooit wat waard te zijn (pathologisch liegen). De psychopaat kent geen schuldgevoelens of gevoelens van spijt over de dingen die hij anderen aandoet. Hij kan zeggen dat het slachtoffer het verdiende om zo behandeld te worden of dat het slachtoffer eigenlijk niets bijzonders is aangedaan (gebrek aan berouw of schuldgevoel). Hij is niet in staat of niet bereid om de verantwoordelijkheid te nemen voor zijn eigen gedragingen. Het zijn altijd anderen die de schuld krijgen of er is altijd wel een excuus te vinden voor de dingen die een psychopaat heeft gedaan (geen verantwoordelijkheid nemen voor het eigen gedrag). De prototype psychopaat manipuleert en bedriegt anderen zonder daarbij aandacht te hebben voor wat dat voor anderen betekent, waarbij hij nogal eens crimineel gedrag vertoont in de vorm van bijvoorbeeld fraude en verduistering en niet-crimineel gedrag in de vorm van overspel en het aftroggelen van geld van familieleden (list en bedrog/manipulerend gedrag). Een psychopaat komt op anderen over als koud en ongevoelig. Zijn “emoties” doen vaak aan als dramatisch, kortstondig en onecht (ontbreken aan emotionele diepgang). In al zijn gedragingen en meningen toont een psychopaat weinig respect voor de rechten, gevoelens en het welzijn van anderen. Hij beschouwt andere mensen als potentiële slachtoffers die te manipuleren zijn en beschouwt zichzelf als de belangrijkste persoon die er is (kil/gebrek aan empathie).
Naast problemen in hun gevoelens en relaties met anderen, hebben psychopaten grote problemen in hun levensstijl. Negen kenmerken in de PCLR geven deze problemen in de levensstijl weer. Een psychopaat heeft een zeer sterke behoefte tot stimulatie en een ongebruikelijk sterke afkeer van verveling. Hij leidt doorgaans een snel leven met veel risicogedragingen en experimenteren met drugs en hij vindt dat school, werk en langdurende relaties saai en vervelend zijn (prikkelhongerig/neiging tot verveling). Een psychopaat kiest er vaak voor om te teren op de zak van zijn familie, partner of vrienden, en vermijdt het hebben van een vaste baan (parasitaire levensstijl). Kenmerkend is dat er vaak sprake is van opvliegendheid en een slechte beheersing. Op mislukkingen, kritiek en frustraties reageert een psychopaat vaak met geweld, scheldpartijen of bedreigingen, waarbij deze reacties even snel kunnen ophouden als ze begonnen zijn (gebrekkige beheersing van gedrag). Een psychopaat gedraagt zich vaak uitermate impulsief, zonder echt stil te staan bij de voors en tegens van bepaalde gedragingen. Relaties worden nogal eens beëindigd, banen worden nogal eens opgezegd en verhuizingen vinden nogal eens plaats zonder dat anderen daarover worden geïnformeerd en zonder dat de beslissing daartoe echt goed is overdacht (impulsiviteit). De psychopaat toont geen verantwoordelijkheidsgevoel of loyaliteit naar familie, vrienden, werkgevers, huisbazen of anderen. Zijn omgang met geld is vaak bedroevend, hij heeft vaak schulden, gaat vaak beroerd om met zakenrelaties, en is zijn familie vaak enorm tot last (onverantwoordelijk gedrag). Een psychopaat heeft geen plannen of doelen voor de lange termijn. Hij leeft van dag tot dag en verandert zijn plannen continu, en stoort zich er niet aan dat zijn leven vrij inhoudsloos is (ontbreken van realistische doelen op de lange termijn). De kinderjaren kenmerken zich door tal van problemen zoals liegen, vechtpartijen, diefstalletjes, berovingen, brandstichtingen en uitingen van geweld tegen mens en dier. De psychopaat staat daardoor vaak al vroeg bekend als het zwarte schaap van de familie (gedragsproblemen op jonge leeftijd). De tienerjaren kenmerken zich door ernstig antisociaal gedrag en door arrestaties en veroordelingen vanwege criminele gedragingen (jeugdcriminaliteit). Als volwassene onderneemt de gedetineerde psychopaat ontsnappingspogingen uit gevangenissen, keert hij niet terug van weekendverloven, begaat hij delicten tijdens zijn voorwaardelijke invrijheidsstelling, en breekt hij de voorwaarden van de voorwaardelijke gevangenisstraf (schending van voorwaardelijke invrijheidsstelling).
Drie resterende kenmerken in de PCLR zijn weliswaar problematisch maar hebben minder duidelijk betrekking op gevoelens en relaties met anderen of op de levensstijl. De drie kenmerken betreffen seksuele losbandigheid, een verleden met veel huwlijken en/of samenwoonrelaties, en een strafblad met veel verschillende soorten delicten. Deze 20 kenmerken beschrijven de echte psychopaat. In de praktijk zal men echter niemand tegenkomen met precies deze kenmerken. Vaak lijken kenmerken op de beschreven kenmerken maar zijn zij niet helemaal hetzelfde. Ook zal men tegenkomen dat sommige kenmerken wel aanwezig zijn maar andere niet
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Nope, ik luister niet naar de ouders van natalee of joran zei zullen nooit en te nimmer objectief over de zaak praten ze beschermen hun kinderen. Beth zal niks zeggen over dat natalee veel te veel had gedronken net zo min als de ouders van joran iets gaan zeggen over dat ie pokerverslaafd is en regelmatig zonder hun weten weer op stap was. Ik hoor die moeder van joran nog zeggen "ik heb hem goed opgevoed" of iets in die trant...tja. Volgens haar wel ja.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 12:36 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
My positoin is that it is not even close to subtility what their counterparts are doing. Paul is supposedly a womanizer and he drinks a lot, and so he must have knowledge of the drugs related underground on Aruba, and so he's apt to help his son in such a hot spot.
Probably this sort of assumption is created by Mrs.Twitty, the hard boiled christian. Not even only Joran is a bad peron, also his father must be (hey and he is suppossed to be a womanizer hey, and he drinks a lot hey), and hell even the whole of Holland must be.
Mijn vermoedens zijn gebaseerd uit nieuwsfeiten, politieberichten en hetgeen joran in de auto zegt.
I just read the first thread and I wonder what Observer thinks has happened to Natalee.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
harjajuku start here 
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Ja, leuk. Maar ik zie nergens een duidelijk stukje van wat hij denkt dat er gebeurt is. Dus je punt ontgaat mij enigzins.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 17:45 schreef johan555 het volgende:
here Natalee Holloway (in the rebound).
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound). is deel een
en dit is het vervolg part 2
en dit is het vervolg part 2
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
En in mijn eerste post zeg ik dat ik dat gelezen heb. Wtf is je punt nu
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Waai aar wie tokking inglis?
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
[quote author=Frijole link=topic=2572.msg341259#msg341259 date=1202216748]
[quote author=Buckeye link=topic=2572.msg341256#msg341256 date=1202216180]
[quote author=Observer link=topic=2572.msg341254#msg341254 date=1202216065]
Mornin all,
I am off to work...Wanted to wish you all a good day!! Good to see you in the cage Eurobert!!
[/quote]
Observer
Did you read the Dutch quote on last thread...to you??...they want you to organize info better...so they can find stuff easier....posted on that Dutch forum...
[/quote]
LOL We have almost 3 yrs worth of work! Leave it to the Dutch to want it orderly. Guess they are wanting to know more history, timeline stuff. At least we know they read here now.
OK so the Dutch are pissed, the Americans are pissed... any word on how the Arubans feel about Joran's interviews?
[/quote]
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2572.msg341259#msg341259
[quote author=Buckeye link=topic=2572.msg341256#msg341256 date=1202216180]
[quote author=Observer link=topic=2572.msg341254#msg341254 date=1202216065]
Mornin all,
I am off to work...Wanted to wish you all a good day!! Good to see you in the cage Eurobert!!
[/quote]
Observer
Did you read the Dutch quote on last thread...to you??...they want you to organize info better...so they can find stuff easier....posted on that Dutch forum...
[/quote]
LOL We have almost 3 yrs worth of work! Leave it to the Dutch to want it orderly. Guess they are wanting to know more history, timeline stuff. At least we know they read here now.
OK so the Dutch are pissed, the Americans are pissed... any word on how the Arubans feel about Joran's interviews?
[/quote]
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2572.msg341259#msg341259
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Zenk joe.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 18:02 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
Omdat die observer een Canadees is ofzo
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Tering, wat een hoop info staat er op die scared monkeys zeg... ben hard aan het bijlezen, dus ff tvp (sorry!)
Ik ben ook al de hele tijd daar aan het lezen...quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 18:31 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
Tering, wat een hoop info staat er op die scared monkeys zeg... ben hard aan het bijlezen, dus ff tvp (sorry!)
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
The more I read on Scared Monkeys, the less I understand of Peter R de Vries' programme.
Question for our American/Canadian friends; How was the show received over there? What's your opinion of Peter R. de Vries and what he said?
Question for our American/Canadian friends; How was the show received over there? What's your opinion of Peter R. de Vries and what he said?
Just a a little comment:quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:18 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[..]
Have you even seen the broadcast in detail?
A person that spills his guts the first time he can talk about in, in such a rapid way is not lying.
It was the second day that Patrick brought it up again, and started asking for he name of the person.
The first day Joran talked about this person or people he named them 'higher powers" and a name 'he would take to the gave'.
The day after he migth have had a night sleep about it, thinkig that telling patrick the story in details isn't necessary and thus changing some names and people in this story.
You also seem to forget the way Joran reacted to Pauw&Witteman, the day the world got story about the hidden camera tapes, and asked him about it on phone.
He was stuttering, not knowing in what way this could inflict him, still believing Patrick is his friend.
I mean he told everyone he knew this girl is dead. Why act as a attorney for him by making stuff up that would only make the story more complicated then it is.
If you look at the video, you'll notice that it's Patrick who first uses the words 'higher power'...then Joran repeats those words and says 'yeah higher power...higher powers'
nou, doe es een link danquote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 19:01 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Ik ben ook al de hele tijd daar aan het lezen...
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
also Patrick is the first one to suggest a boat to Joran. then Joran confirms.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 19:43 schreef 3rr0r het volgende:
[..]
Just a a little comment:
If you look at the video, you'll notice that it's Patrick who first uses the words 'higher power'...then Joran repeats those words and says 'yeah higher power...higher powers'
and Patrick asks questions like: 'so then you let him dump the body in the ocean' to wich Joran says yes.
i know the defense is going to use this.
Joe Tacopina, the american adivsory lawyer to Jorans dutch attorney already tried this yesterday on Greta's show on Fox.
he said that Patrick just puts words in Jorans mouth.
that may be partly true in some cases.
but overall Joran makes a very detailed confession on his own, especially in the later conversations they had.
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
So the theory that Joran called his friend/dad with Natalee's phone doesn't fit.quote:Natalee was reported missing later that morning, after she failed to appear to appear for her group flight home. Her passport, phone, and luggage were all found in her hotel room; the only items missing were those she had on her when she left for Carlos 'n Charlie's.
Observer said earlier that the police arrested 2 innocent black man. These 2 men were arrested because deepak, joran and satish said they had seen a black man approached Natalee at the holliday inn. I don't find it strange that those 2 men were arrested.quote:Later that day, Joran and the Kalpoes each gave formal witness statements to police, in which Satish also claimed to have seen the security guard. According to former Aruban police chief Gerold Dompig, surveilance of the trio, which included phone wiretaps, began on the third day after Natalee was reported missing.
On June 5, 2005, police made their first arrests in the case: Two security guards, Abraham Jones and Antonious "Mickey" John, both of whom matched the general description provided by the Kalpoes. The guards were held until June 13.
that, I find very strange.quote:On April 15, 2006, Aruban police arrested 19 year-old Geoffery von Cromviort, on suspicion of involvement in the disappearance. He was held until April 26, 2006. The exact reasons for Von Cromviort's detention were never publicly clarified: Apparently he and Joran did not know each other, and according to his attorney, he denied ever meeting Natalee. Another individual with initials "A.B." was arrested on April 22, 2006, but released the same day.
quote:Guido Wever, a friend of Joran and former croupier at the Holiday Inn, was arrested in the Netherlands on May 17, 2006, becoming the tenth person to be detained in the Holloway case. Wever's arrest was based largely on statements given in early 2006, by several witnesses, who claimed he had scratches on his face in the days following the disappearance. However, Wever's attorney disputed those claims, and although Aruban authorities requested his transfer to the island, he was instead released on May 23.
Scratches on the face, and still be released ?
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Mn FF gaf aan dat er 3 wouden poppenquote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 20:02 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
[..]
dan doe je iets niet goed, ik had er nul...
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Observer ; there are rumors that in Lorenzo's basement were found clothes of Natalee. Is this true?
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Observerquote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 18:06 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[quote author=Frijole link=topic=2572.msg341259#msg341259 date=1202216748]
[quote author=Buckeye link=topic=2572.msg341256#msg341256 date=1202216180]
[quote author=Observer link=topic=2572.msg341254#msg341254 date=1202216065]
Mornin all,
I am off to work...Wanted to wish you all a good day!! Good to see you in the cage Eurobert!!
Did you read the Dutch quote on last thread...to you??...they want you to organize info better...so they can find stuff easier....posted on that Dutch forum...
[/quote]
LOL We have almost 3 yrs worth of work! Leave it to the Dutch to want it orderly. Guess they are wanting to know more history, timeline stuff. At least we know they read here now.
OK so the Dutch are pissed, the Americans are pissed... any word on how the Arubans feel about Joran's interviews?
[/quote]
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2572.msg341259#msg341259
[/quote]
Hello Caesu,
I agree that SM needs to be better organized and I will talk to the Admin about it..I have wanted to put all the information all together for quite awhile now..Just time consuming..It's all in my head and mostly on my computer so I want to share as much knowledge with my dutch friends as possible..Hope everyone is well?
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 21:11 schreef Qwea het volgende:
Observer ; there are rumors that in Lorenzo's basement were found clothes of Natalee. Is this true?
Yes,Back in the beginning a friend of his posted named Dolores at a site called RWV..I saved her posts at the Lorenzo thread at SM. She defended him big time but told us someone called in a anonymous tip saying that Natalee's clothes were in his home/basement and that lead to his arrest and search of his mom's home and boat. I believe there were others that told us the same thing.. No idea if it was true or not though. From what I have heard his house was never searched at all and no forensics were done. People really defend this guy and led us to believe he didnt exist for a long time but most everything that was posted turned out to be true. I have reason to believe he was questioned the first week,the 16th and again the 28th at a minimum. As you know he had a party that night and a person Named Max Arendsz was rumored to provide a alibi for him. Joran also caught the bus one day after Natalee dissapeared by his house..I believe Paul VDS said he dropped him there to save time to go to school.
His mothers house is now a vacation place that they rent out to tourists. Nothing connects this house but this what we were told was searched.
clubarias.com
Old Posts on Lorenzo at SM (Most of the posts were from Arubans)
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1291.0
[ Bericht 4% gewijzigd door observer777 op 05-02-2008 23:48:45 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Personally I love Mr.De Vries and was amazed at his first show..I think he did a great Job in this latest Investigation but I believe Joran was not telling the truth about many things. I am happy,because this brought Natalee's case to attention world wide and people got to hear the real Joran. I hope people take interest and demand answers,especially in Aruba. Much of what is on TV for us we knew long ago and have so many questions that remained to be answered..That is what we try to do everyday at SM is piece together this mystery. I am convinced all the answers are in the beginning in June 2005.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 19:06 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
The more I read on Scared Monkeys, the less I understand of Peter R de Vries' programme.
Question for our American/Canadian friends; How was the show received over there? What's your opinion of Peter R. de Vries and what he said?
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
There was a investigation done in Aruba on the Lions Den by Clausen Investigation that I thought you all may find interesting. This was a real place where some of the powerful in Aruba went to party and have sex with women. Everyone in Aruba knows about the place but no one talks about it. Some speculate that Natalee was brought there..If nothing else it is interesting reading.
Evidentiary Review Scroll down to near the bottom for pictures
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) II
Evidentiary Review Scroll down to near the bottom for pictures
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) II
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 17:22 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
I just read the first thread and I wonder what Observer thinks has happened to Natalee.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
I really believe these may be important clues into what happened to Natalee. I know Joran's American Lawyer has said that the VCB shirt found had forensic material on it and has been linked to Natalee's case. Why they waited a year to arrest GVC I have no idea..
On June 5th 2005 a Bloody Mattress was found on the southern tip of the island called grapefield beach,it was saturated with Blood with a dead dog found near it. Within 3 hours the Arubans said it was dogs blood and not linked to the case. Also found were a pair of sandals. This was the same day the 2 innocent security guards were arrested.
On June 6th 2005 in the colony area also the southern part of the island A VCB Security shirt(Rumored to have blood on it)was found with styraphone with teeth marks,a pair of sunglasses and suspicious materials inside of a lysol bottle. There was also a phone call on this day alerting people to search another area called weg fontein. Aruban officials have never stated that the findings are not related to Natalees dissapearance.
On June 7th Awemainta newspaper said Natalee was dead..The next day they said they made a mistake and that it was a 17 yr old male who died and not Natalee.
On June 5th 2005 a Bloody Mattress was found on the southern tip of the island called grapefield beach,it was saturated with Blood with a dead dog found near it. Within 3 hours the Arubans said it was dogs blood and not linked to the case. Also found were a pair of sandals. This was the same day the 2 innocent security guards were arrested.
On June 6th 2005 in the colony area also the southern part of the island A VCB Security shirt(Rumored to have blood on it)was found with styraphone with teeth marks,a pair of sunglasses and suspicious materials inside of a lysol bottle. There was also a phone call on this day alerting people to search another area called weg fontein. Aruban officials have never stated that the findings are not related to Natalees dissapearance.
On June 7th Awemainta newspaper said Natalee was dead..The next day they said they made a mistake and that it was a 17 yr old male who died and not Natalee.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
This is perhaps the biggest day in the case. It was reported all over America. There was a confession from one of the suspects ,something bad happened and they were leading them to the body. It was reported on all our major news outlets and confirmed by the Minister of Justice office. Many links on the net you can read about this and tons of resources what happened on the 10th and 11th. Many of us are positive Joran confessed and it was retracted the next day. The Minister of Justice said it was mis-information and they never spoke of it again. On June 13th Joran stated that Deepak came back and raped and killed Natalee and that is documented on the net as well. This was a article that came out in Diario newspaper that talks about what the reporter saw.
“They Buried Natalee in the neighborhood of Fishermen huts"
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1260
According to information that DIARIO is receiving, when Joran van der Sloot was detained he started crying during interrogation and he even told officers that they buried Natalee in the neighborhood of Fishermen hutsIt could be deduced that he doesn’t remember precisely where, but in the neighborhood of Fishermen huts, the elder Kalpoe brother buried Natalee. He told police that he would cooperate but that didn’t last long.
As for the Kalpoe Brothers, they also made fun of our authority because they simply told the cops: “No Body means No Case”
---------------------------------------------
Most every Major news source reported something bad happened,Natalee was confirmed dead and they were leading them to her body.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/breaking/
“They Buried Natalee in the neighborhood of Fishermen huts"
http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1260
According to information that DIARIO is receiving, when Joran van der Sloot was detained he started crying during interrogation and he even told officers that they buried Natalee in the neighborhood of Fishermen hutsIt could be deduced that he doesn’t remember precisely where, but in the neighborhood of Fishermen huts, the elder Kalpoe brother buried Natalee. He told police that he would cooperate but that didn’t last long.
As for the Kalpoe Brothers, they also made fun of our authority because they simply told the cops: “No Body means No Case”
---------------------------------------------
Most every Major news source reported something bad happened,Natalee was confirmed dead and they were leading them to her body.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/06/11/breaking/
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
thanks!quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 23:13 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Observer
Did you read the Dutch quote on last thread...to you??...they want you to organize info better...so they can find stuff easier....posted on that Dutch forum...
LOL We have almost 3 yrs worth of work! Leave it to the Dutch to want it orderly. Guess they are wanting to know more history, timeline stuff. At least we know they read here now.
OK so the Dutch are pissed, the Americans are pissed... any word on how the Arubans feel about Joran's interviews?
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2572.msg341259#msg341259
Hello Caesu,
I agree that SM needs to be better organized and I will talk to the Admin about it..I have wanted to put all the information all together for quite awhile now..Just time consuming..It's all in my head and mostly on my computer so I want to share as much knowledge with my dutch friends as possible..Hope everyone is well?
i think it is great to keep a thread running over here in english.
maybe that way we can help to piece together what did happen those fatal days in may/june 05.
we can translate interesting bits about the case for example. or help with possible leads.
the amount of information on SM is just overwhelming like i said in my first post in this topic.
but slowly i am taking more information in.
what i am thinking these last few days. i am struggling with the cover up theory.
if there is a massive cover up: why would all these people in (some in high positions / higher powers) risk their careers / relationships / even aruban economy just to keep this snotty lying bastard JvdS of the hook???
because his dad is also involved. what's so special about Paul vdS to risk all that for the 'high powers'?
of course there must be a lot more to it then with a lot of people involved.
but why doesn't somebody chicken out then, because Joran can screw them all for a lesser sentence.
or does Joran himself even not know about the cover up.
i am really just scratching the surface...
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.quote:
She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.
Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Do u have any evidence for this? Innocent until proven ( without any reasonable doubt) quilty.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.
She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.
Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.
HI! Good to see youquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:25 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
thanks!
i think it is great to keep a thread running over here in english.
maybe that way we can help to piece together what did happen those fatal days in may/june 05.
we can translate interesting bits about the case for example. or help with possible leads.
the amount of information on SM is just overwhelming like i said in my first post in this topic.
but slowly i am taking more information in.
what i am thinking these last few days. i am struggling with the cover up theory.
if there is a massive cover up: why would all these people in (some in high positions / higher powers) risk their careers / relationships / even aruban economy just to keep this snotty lying bastard JvdS of the hook???
because his dad is also involved. what's so special about Paul vdS to risk all that for the 'high powers'?
of course there must be a lot more to it then with a lot of people involved.
but why doesn't somebody chicken out then, because Joran can screw them all for a lesser sentence.
or does Joran himself even not know about the cover up.
i am really just scratching the surface...
Yes,that sounds like a great idea! I could fill up these pages with why I am absolutely convinced it was a coverup. It is so ridiculous and absurd that it looks like a idiot was pulling the strings in this cover up. So much info and proof,it would take me a full day to show it all. I am not sure why the cover up but it happened and continues to happen. Could be because of everyone that got involved early and there was no looking back or its something much bigger. I know they care about there reputation and tourism first and everything else second. You have to understand that something like 70% of Aruba's economy is through America's tourism and 70-80% of Arubans work is associated with Tourism. The Aruban Govt is linked to Money Laundering and the drug trade and several of the ministers were caught transporting drugs,rape or pimping out women for the sex industry. One of them even runs a brothel in Venezuela. It has been 12 years since a American was murdered in Aruba and the rest have dissapeared or killed themselves..So many suspicious deaths! Even one that I am very close to that involved a dutch person. We know for sure the Aruban GOVT has spent millions to attack the victim and her family and spread the most ridiculous,slanderous lying stories and has done it since the very beginning. That would be another topic that we could talk about for quite along time. That is all over the net and is well documented.
------------------------------------------------
This is a small tidbit but very peculiar..You have a show called Opsporing Verzocht which is like our Americas Most Wanted..Normally they get actors they look very similar to the criminals they portray..So people will recognize them and come forward. But when this show was done in Aruba they had a black islander playing the role of Joran..Not only did he not look anything like him but he was older a different race. We were told the higher powers in Aruba restricted what the dutch program could do and made them pick from people just in the police academy. This is absurd..How could they pick this guy to portray the main suspect a dutch white guy in the biggest murder case ever in Aruba..Why would they do this? Does this look anything like Joran Van Der Sloot? This was just one of the many things that made everyone sick who watched this story broadcasted in the Netherlands.
Opsporing Verzocht is een opsporingsmiddel van politie en justitie. Deze twee diensten bepalen de inhoud van het programma tot in elk detail.
Opsporing verzocht is a tool to solve crimes for the police and DA's office. They decide the content of the show into the smallest detail
----------------------------------
Actor who played Joran Van Der Sloot in Opsporing Verzocht Reenactment of the Natalee Holloway case in Aruba
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Yes,Innocent until proven guilty..I can show you why there is more than strong suspicion that is exactly what happened. But I am on the internet like you are and not a Aruban Police Detective.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:35 schreef Klummie het volgende:
[..]
Do u have any evidence for this? Innocent until proven ( without any reasonable doubt) quilty.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Please show us, we r very curiousquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Yes,Innocent until proven guilty..I can show you why there is more than strong suspicion that is exactly what happened. But I am on the internet like you are and not a Aruban Police Detective.
Yep thats a tough question. There are many things that could be interpreted as indications of a cover up. Like the one observer777 just posted about Opsporing Verzocht and the choice of using a black actor for Joran. In itself one might consider it as weird but nothing more, together with all the other "weird things" they make a pretty good case for a cover up (imo).quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:25 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
what i am thinking these last few days. i am struggling with the cover up theory.
if there is a massive cover up: why would all these people in (some in high positions / higher powers) risk their careers / relationships / even aruban economy just to keep this snotty lying bastard JvdS of the hook???
But then the question remains why seemingly uninvolved people would use their influence to protect the perpetrators?
For an answer one would first need to identify those people.
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door NorthernStar op 06-02-2008 01:48:44 ]
If he had bulletproof evidence, would he be talking to us or the authorities right now?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:35 schreef Klummie het volgende:
[..]
Do u have any evidence for this? Innocent until proven ( without any reasonable doubt) quilty.
Besides, this is not a court of law but an internet forum. We are posting personal opinions and sharing information, we are not in the role of prosecutors. Its irrelevant. (the Innocent until proven part)
A good advice, don't give this guy too much credits. He's provocate all the time in discussions with his 'evidence' argument.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:43 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
If he had bulletproof evidence, would he be talking to us or the authorities right now?
Besides, this is not a court of law but an internet forum. We are posting personal opinions and sharing information, we are not in the role of prosecutors. Its irrelevant.
Hi Klummie..You have to believe what I am telling you and trust that I will provide everything why I make these claims. It is just very time consuming for me looking everything up,copying and pasting. Just last week the editor of Diario newspaper stated that he has a witness a bartender that watched two of the suspects escort Natalee out of the bar because she was weak on her feet. I have also spoken to Dan Riehl from Riehl World View Blog who had talked to two other witnesses that saw Deepak escort Natalee out of the bar holding her 10 minutes after everyone else. I have never thought that Natalee was drunk,wild and decided to go for a ride with three strangers. Also Joran told the students he was from holland and staying at the hotel that she stayed at. It was all a setup and all lies. Joran also had drugged and sexually assaulted 3 others in Aruba before Natalee even went there to vacation. They did go to the police and nothing was ever done. They were also coming forward and hired lawyers but we feel they were threatened or discouraged from doing so. I am telling you,these people have top live in Aruba and there is fear about testifying in this case.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:35 schreef Klummie het volgende:
[..]
Please show us, we r very curious
All of the early PV'S or transcripts the suspects all talk about Natalee going in and out of conscioussness..Joran specificly states he was fingering her while she struggled to remain awake. Freddy states she collapsed on the beach..This is all proven and listed in the interrogations listed on the internet. Joran bragged about dropping drugs into girls drinks and this is commen knowledge. I can back everything up and no doubt in my mind she was drugged. Lots more info out there why most everyone believes she was drugged and most likely with GHB.
------------------------------------------------------------
Aug. 1, 2005 Jossy on OReilly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWePBCccJiE
Known to have problems with anger and anger management..Flies off the bat most often..At school he had problems,Problems where he goes to drink..He goes to conquer these tourist girls..etc..Jossy confirms rumors about Joran dropping drugs into girls drinks or having someone else do it..Kids from Joran's school at the ISA have informed him that Joran has bragged about it..
Paul VDS was very permissive with him..Let him get away with everything..Father was been seen with him gambling in the Casino and letting him drink.
---------------------------------------
Two Observations Thursday, June 23, 2005
Snip from RWV Archive
The second observation will sound like gossip, which basically, it is - please take that into account. If it didn't come through an extremely reliable source on the island, I would not mention it at all.
In talking with an adult professional from Aruba who knew Joran, the individual stated that Joran often bragged to him of his many "sexual conquests" resulting from the use of an illicit substance slipped into a woman's drink and the Aruban individual suggested Joran was a "psychopath."
I doubt that the source of these statements is a certified psychologist, but if he is repeating these types of statements to individuals in and around the investigation, it will likely come out and be proven or disproven in any potential trial. And noone should be considered guilty of anything without one.
http://www.riehlworldview(...)two_observation.html
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
i remember that actor. it caused a bit of stir here as well.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:02 schreef observer777 het volgende:
This is a small tidbit but very peculiar..You have a show called Opsporing Verzocht which is like our Americas Most Wanted..Normally they get actors they look very similar to the criminals they portray..So people will recognize them and come forward. But when this show was done in Aruba they had a black islander playing the role of Joran..Not only did he not look anything like him but he was older a different race. We were told the higher powers in Aruba restricted what the dutch program could do and made them pick from people just in the police academy. This is absurd..How could they pick this guy to portray the main suspect a dutch white guy in the biggest murder case ever in Aruba..Why would they do this? Does this look anything like Joran Van Der Sloot? This was just one of the many things that made everyone sick who watched this story broadcasted in the Netherlands.
Opsporing Verzocht is een opsporingsmiddel van politie en justitie. Deze twee diensten bepalen de inhoud van het programma tot in elk detail.
Opsporing verzocht is a tool to solve crimes for the police and DA's office. They decide the content of the show into the smallest detail
----------------------------------
Actor who played Joran Van Der Sloot in Opsporing Verzocht Reenactment of the Natalee Holloway case in Aruba
[ afbeelding ]
peter r. de vries mentioned this also in his earlier programs about the natalee-case.
the opsporing verzocht program was heavily criticized because of that.
the cover up is backfiring big time now.
but it backfired already a long time ago i think. right from the beginning.
they played that cover up very very badly.
to bring some dutch politics into this.
not to start a political discussion with other dutch users, just for background information.
we have a party over here called PVV. it is a anti-islam party.
not that many seats in parliament. but the leader makes often very controversial statement so he gets a lot of media attention.
a couple of weeks ago one MP of this party said he wanted to sell the dutch antilles and aruba on ebay because it are such a deeply corrupt bunch if islands (mainly drugs of course).
this caused a huge stir because a parlemantairy commitee was just visiting the islands and there are major changes underway regarding the status of the islands in the dutch kingdom.
the other political parties can't just agree with PVV because this party is portrait (and i agree for the most part) as a radical non-tolerant party. the leader is bringing a anti-islam documentairy out soon (huge story before peter r. announced his breakthrough!)
so if the PVV says: aruba and the antilles are extremely corrupt. automatically the other parties and especially the government-coalition parties are disagreeing.
this could be why the dutch government is hesitating to step in and clean up the mess. because that would be siding with the PVV party.
it think it would technically be possible for the queen the step in, dismiss the aruban cabinet en parliament and impose direct rule by a governor who answers back the to dutch governement in the hague.
but of course this is not going to happen.
the queen can't do anything without approval of the dutch cabinet with support of the dutch parlaiment.
today the PVV asked for spoeddebat (emergency debate?) in parliament. but it was not supported.
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
You're saying: Holloway suffered a massive head injury at Joran's den. So I suppose there's forensic (DNA proof) evidence to back this up? And if so, why is this fact unknown to the public? Why didn't police and state attorney's do anything with this information, but instead seem to believe Joran's version in which Natalee dies at the beach.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.
She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.
Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.
And what happened to Joran's younger brother (who allegedly was also at the main building of the Van der Sloot estate and sleeping) while their father disposed the body and instructed Joran, Deepak and Satish? Did he sleep through it all? Or is he an accomplish?
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Ryan3 op 06-02-2008 01:59:48 ]
I´m back.
Have you ever been to Aruba yourself?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:03 schreef observer777 het volgende:
I really believe these may be important clues into what happened to Natalee. I know Joran's American Lawyer has said that the VCB shirt found had forensic material on it and has been linked to Natalee's case. Why they waited a year to arrest GVC I have no idea..
On June 5th 2005 a Bloody Mattress was found on the southern tip of the island called grapefield beach,it was saturated with Blood with a dead dog found near it. Within 3 hours the Arubans said it was dogs blood and not linked to the case. Also found were a pair of sandals. This was the same day the 2 innocent security guards were arrested.
On June 6th 2005 in the colony area also the southern part of the island A VCB Security shirt(Rumored to have blood on it)was found with styraphone with teeth marks,a pair of sunglasses and suspicious materials inside of a lysol bottle. There was also a phone call on this day alerting people to search another area called weg fontein. Aruban officials have never stated that the findings are not related to Natalees dissapearance.
[ afbeelding ]
On June 7th Awemainta newspaper said Natalee was dead..The next day they said they made a mistake and that it was a 17 yr old male who died and not Natalee.
[ afbeelding ]
Everywhere along the coastline is rubbish, how many shoes and shirts do you want?
Your exactly right..I do not have a smoking gun and I am a internet blogger just like all of you..I wish to god I could end this case right now as I would do it in a heartbeat. I am not even the type to get involved in a missing persons case,it just happened and like so many others I cant move on until it is solved. What they did to this girl and her family is the most unbelievable series of events I have ever seen in my life by far.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:43 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
If he had bulletproof evidence, would he be talking to us or the authorities right now?
Besides, this is not a court of law but an internet forum. We are posting personal opinions and sharing information, we are not in the role of prosecutors. Its irrelevant. (the Innocent until proven part)
I am someone who has read and followed everything about this case since day one and spent thousands of hours researching it. I believe I am as knowledgeable as anyone regarding this case. I just want to share with you what happened in this case since May 29th 2005. I try not to post my personal opinion very often but I want to show you events,transcripts,statements,news reports,articles,video footage,pictures and interrogations in hopes that someone else or together we can put together the pieces and solve this nightmare.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Well there probably would have been forensic evidence if they would have searched the house. Remember that house was never searched until like april 2007..Two years too late.Did you see Peter De Vries first program? Well there is alot more to why they restricted the search of that house the day of the search. They only searched Joran's little Apt and the two cars and that was 17 days after Natalee vanished!! There was a article in Papamiento from that Judge last month stating why he restricted the search. He blamed the Prosecuters office and commissioner Dompig and they blame him. They are caught red handed in this lie! Can anyone translate Papi here? He said the Prosecuters office never asked to search anything more,while Dompig says they were denied searching that house. The Judge says Dompig obstructed justice and asked for Van Der Sloots privacy and not to search the housequote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:54 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
You're saying: Holloway suffered a massive head injury at Joran's den. So I suppose there's forensic (DNA proof) evidence to back this up? And if so, why is this fact unknown to the public? Why didn't police and state attorney's do anything with this information, but instead seem to believe Joran's version in which Natalee dies at the beach.
And what happened to Joran's younger brother (who allegedly was also at the main building of the Van der Sloot estate and sleeping) while their father disposed the body and instructed Joran, Deepak and Satish? Did he sleep through it all? Or is he an accomplish?
So many times PJK2 stated that Natalee hit her head when getting out of the carit is all in the documents. Why would they say that? Why would PVDS tell two different people including Joran's headmaster that Natalee may have hit her head and drowned? Why would they report blood in Deeepaks car..It wasnt just one person,But The Prime Minsiter,Minister of Justice,FBI and a couple of Aruban police officers.I wasnt in the sloot house and I dont know what Val was doing but look at the computer records..Val was on the x-plane site after 2am on a school night!! This kid also had on his internet site talking about a dead girl in his bathtub. He could have been the alibi on the computer or it could have been one of Jorans friends. I dont even think he was questioned until the year 2007. I think Val is a good kid and was not involved but may know something.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Haha..Yes I am sure the tide brings in a lot of shoes,shirts and debris the tourists and natives leave behind. How often do they have Mattresses saturated with blood and a dog slaughtered next to it?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:56 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
[..]
Have you ever been to Aruba yourself?
Everywhere along the coastline is rubbish, how many shoes and shirts do you want?
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
i don't believe this, if so many people were involved, somebody, had already talked/confess a long time ago.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.
She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.
Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.
i know someone who has been convicted of murder, there were 5 people involved, he was betrayed, thats why he got caught!
This is good reading and put together very well..Well worth the read!!!!
Corruption and Collusion within the Aruban government
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.0
You may have seen this site..I have not read much of it because it is in dutch.
Dutch website exposing some of the corruption in Aruba.
http://www.koninginnlwatismensenrechten.com
http://www.koninginnlwati(...)standen/page0002.htm
Corruption and Collusion within the Aruban government
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.0
You may have seen this site..I have not read much of it because it is in dutch.
Dutch website exposing some of the corruption in Aruba.
http://www.koninginnlwatismensenrechten.com
http://www.koninginnlwati(...)standen/page0002.htm
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Hallo,Did it happen in Aruba? I am telling you he did confess in his second day under arrest!! This case was solved in June 2005,I am sure of it! They do not want the truth to come out and they have protected this kid and his father since day one. It is mind boggling though,because I do feel that many people know what happened.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:21 schreef THEFXR het volgende:
[..]
i don't believe this, if so many people were involved, somebody, had already talked/confess a long time ago.
i know someone who has been convicted of murder, there were 5 people involved, he was betrayed, thats why he got caught!
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Not much, but I am on Aruba right know and if I will do a search today I'm sure I will find at least one of these 2 items...quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:20 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Haha..Yes I am sure the tide brings in a lot of shoes,shirts and debris the tourists and natives leave behind. How often do they have Mattresses saturated with blood and a dog slaughtered next to it?
BTW. Can you tell me why Americans are so rude to Aruba?
Before this case many Americans came to the island and now they keep away. Only 5 US cruise ships out of 10 before still entering the harbour of Oranjestad.
Are those people all so hypocrital as I think/know they are? Never heared about the murdered people in their own country which cases are also never solved?
Are you admin at SM? iI so, can you add me to the forum? I'm waiting for approval...
At 3AM in the Netherlands there will be a radio show with the below guests. You can listen to the Podcast when you wake up at the below link. You can also listen to previous shows with this link. Jossy Mansur,Beth Holloway,Jug Twitty and others have been on this show and provide some good interviews.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/scared-monkeys-radio/
* Robin Sax, author, speaker, media analyst and Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney
* Christopher Darden, Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Prosecutor
* George “Jug” Twitty, Natalee Holloway’s stepfather
* Dr. Andrew Hodges, author of Into The Deep: The Hidden Confession of Natalee’s Killer
* Jossy Mansur, Managing Editor of Diario, discussing recent developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation
* Art Wood, former Secret Service agent discussing the Natalee Holloway case.
[ Bericht 15% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 03:18:52 ]
http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/scared-monkeys-radio/
* Robin Sax, author, speaker, media analyst and Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney
* Christopher Darden, Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Prosecutor
* George “Jug” Twitty, Natalee Holloway’s stepfather
* Dr. Andrew Hodges, author of Into The Deep: The Hidden Confession of Natalee’s Killer
* Jossy Mansur, Managing Editor of Diario, discussing recent developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation
* Art Wood, former Secret Service agent discussing the Natalee Holloway case.
[ Bericht 15% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 03:18:52 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
it happened in the netherlandsquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:32 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Hallo,Did it happen in Aruba? I am telling you he did confess in his second day under arrest!! This case was solved in June 2005,I am sure of it! They do not want the truth to come out and they have protected this kid and his father since day one. It is mind boggling though,because I do feel that many people know what happened.
Hi!! Well those two items will be in your newspapers from those days..I researched every newspaper and saved what was still available..I have never seen the pic of the bloody mattress..They said it wasnt related and was never talked about again.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:32 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
[..]
Not much, but I am on Aruba right know and if I will do a search today I'm sure I will find at least one of these 2 items...
BTW. Can you tell me why Americans are so rude to Aruba?
Before this case many Americans came to the island and now they keep away. Only 5 US cruise ships out of 10 before still entering the harbour of Oranjestad.
Are those people all so hypocrital as I think/know they are? Never heared about the murdered people in their own country which cases are also never solved?
Are you admin at SM? iI so, can you add me to the forum? I'm waiting for approval...
It is a difficult discussion,I know Arubans have met them and they are nice good people..I know all to well about the MEP in your Govt and I dont blame the good people of Aruba..Is tourism down in Aruba? You really have to understand what we have seen come out of Aruba since June 2005..Just a few weeks ago..Minister Briesen and Rudy Croes invited these two fake psychics to Aruba and they were in every newspaper,tele-aruba and Top 95 lying about the most evil things about Natalee and her Family..They offered no proof then left the island..Did you see that? It's just one small example of what some Americans have seen. Julia Renfo of Aruba Today and others have truly done the most despicable acts and lies I have ever seen in my life to Natalee and her family
I truly am sorry that it is affecting the innocent Aruban people,I wish to god they could oust that Govt and finally give this girl a honest investigation. As far as the tourist from America that go to Aruba..I find it amazing they would come to your country and be rude!! I am a Moderater at SM and if you give me your name I will get you approved..Please try to understand there are ignorant americans as there are Arubans..If you ever have a problem please let me know. There isnt many Arubans posting there as most dissapeared way back in june 2005..I miss seeing them!!
Please try to see what I see..But in July 2005 the Aruban's didn't protest vs the awful investigation instead they protested vs Natalee's Mom..One person even came on camera told the family to shut up,get over it and go home.I know it was Govt organized so I dont blame you at all..Just showing you what we have seen from your country since 2005..Very few have stepped up and demanded answers and a honest investigation.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Natalee Holloway Update 41: Andrew Hodges on Dutch TV, Deepak and Satish still involved. Lorenzo van R. believed to be 'Daury' by Native Arubans
Andrew Hodges, the forensic psychologist who has been involved in the case since the beginning, has just espoused the theory that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe were responsible for raping Natalee together with Joran van der Sloot. "He is lying on that tape. I suspect the kalpoes are involved. They were cleaning their car obsessively after the disappearance, for one thing."
Meanwhile Dutch TV program Netwerk reported that the Arubans know who Joran's accomplice with the boat was, a certain Lorenzo R., his half-brother. Lorenzo R. is a known underworld figure on Aruba. He was arrested in November of last year in connection to an illegal marijuana plantation. Apparently they've kept quiet about this because Lorenzo's superiors in the Aruban underworld were not prepared to do without him. He is already being held for questioning by the police.
http://equivocationnation.blogspot.com/
Video asking them to question Lorenzo Van Rijn (In Dutch)Half Brother of Joran
http://player.omroep.nl/?serid=23&start=00:00:00&end=00:00:00
[ Bericht 3% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 05:30:01 ]
Andrew Hodges, the forensic psychologist who has been involved in the case since the beginning, has just espoused the theory that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe were responsible for raping Natalee together with Joran van der Sloot. "He is lying on that tape. I suspect the kalpoes are involved. They were cleaning their car obsessively after the disappearance, for one thing."
Meanwhile Dutch TV program Netwerk reported that the Arubans know who Joran's accomplice with the boat was, a certain Lorenzo R., his half-brother. Lorenzo R. is a known underworld figure on Aruba. He was arrested in November of last year in connection to an illegal marijuana plantation. Apparently they've kept quiet about this because Lorenzo's superiors in the Aruban underworld were not prepared to do without him. He is already being held for questioning by the police.
http://equivocationnation.blogspot.com/
Video asking them to question Lorenzo Van Rijn (In Dutch)Half Brother of Joran
http://player.omroep.nl/?serid=23&start=00:00:00&end=00:00:00
[ Bericht 3% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 05:30:01 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Never heared about it before, but that's not the point here.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:11 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Hi!! Well those two items will be in your newspapers from those days..I researched every newspaper and saved what was still available..I have never seen the pic of the bloody mattress..They said it wasnt related and was never talked about again.
I've seen those 2 shrinks, but I didn't knew they were invited by the Aruban gouvernment...quote:It is a difficult discussion,I know Arubans have met them and they are nice good people..I know all to well about the MEP in your Govt and I dont blame the good people of Aruba..Is tourism down in Aruba? You really have to understand what we have seen come out of Aruba since June 2005..Just a few weeks ago..Minister Briesen and Rudy Croes invited these two fake psychics to Aruba and they were in every newspaper,tele-aruba and Top 95 lying about the most evil things about Natalee and her Family..They offered no proof then left the island..Did you see that? It's just one small example of what some Americans have seen. Julia Renfo of Aruba Today and others have truly done the most despicable acts and lies I have ever seen in my life to Natalee and her family
I'm not from Aruba myself, I'm from Amsterdam, Holland. I'm on Aruba right now, visiting friends who work in the tourism section of the island and they really feel the dropdown of American tourists every day.
Ofcourse, there are good and bad people all around the world, but why are the US people keep bashing whole Aruba and it's economical position for this case? Are they all guilty, did they all helped Joran van der Sloot or...?
I visit Aruba very often and although I don't want to say that there is no corruption or anything like that at all, I think corruption is everywhere (also in the US) and that's what i call the hypocritical part of the story...
The US people that vist Aruba aren't that rude, I mean some people at the SM forum (you don't need quotes I think), the governeur of Alabama, other politicians and those TV-people like Oprah and Dr. Phil. They all had their words about Aruba and it's very easy to bring a small island/country in disgrace. But do they know what they are doing? I guess not...quote:I truly am sorry that it is affecting the innocent Aruban people,I wish to god they could oust that Govt and finally give this girl a honest investigation. As far as the tourist from America that go to Aruba..I find it amazing they would come to your country and be rude!! I am a Moderater at SM and if you give me your name I will get you approved..Please try to understand there are ignorant americans as there are Arubans..If you ever have a problem please let me know. There isnt many Arubans posting there as most dissapeared way back in june 2005..I miss seeing them!!
I registered under the nick 'MadMaster' @ SM.
Please let me in...
For me personal, I want a good investigation too.quote:Please try to see what I see..But in July 2005 the Aruban's didn't protest vs the awful investigation instead they protested vs Natalee's Mom..One person even came on camera told the family to shut up,get over it and go home.I know it was Govt organized so I dont blame you at all..Just showing you what we have seen from your country since 2005..Very few have stepped up and demanded answers and a honest investigation.
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To be honoust, imo Beth Twitty made a fool of herself after Natalee was lost. I understand, nobody wants to see her daughter disappear, but the way she acted at that time (against Aruba once more...) was foollish and understandable that some locals were protesting against her.
I'm not sure if the Aruban gouverment is really involved the way you say.
Maybe they did work not very well, maybe Joran is just smart enough. The whole is watching them again right now with all problems that comes with it. I know Aruba is not happy with case and it doesn't do them any good. So why would they cover the case while they know their economical position will dropp again after it was climbing up a little last year?
We should maybe chat on a PM..We have a lot to talk about..It's simple the Defense,Prosecution,Police and Judges all worked together to protect these pimps and cover up a murder of a young girl. Then the Aruban Govt has spent much money on a campaign to slander,lie and spread wrong information about this poor family and her daughter who was murdered..At the same time they depend on Americans for 70% percent of the total revenue for that island..Natalee did not run away to brazil,her father did not impregnate her,she was not a drug addict,she did not run away!!!!!!!!etc etc etc..quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:33 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
[..]
Never heared about it before, but that's not the point here.
[..]
I've seen those 2 shrinks, but I didn't knew they were invited by the Aruban gouvernment...
I'm not from Aruba myself, I'm from Amsterdam, Holland. I'm on Aruba right now, visiting friends who work in the tourism section of the island and they really feel the dropdown of American tourists every day.
Ofcourse, there are good and bad people all around the world, but why are the US people keep bashing whole Aruba and it's economical position for this case? Are they all guilty, did they all helped Joran van der Sloot or...?
I visit Aruba very often and although I don't want to say that there is no corruption or anything like that at all, I think corruption is everywhere (also in the US) and that's what i call the hypocritical part of the story...
[..]
The US people that vist Aruba aren't that rude, I mean some people at the SM forum (you don't need quotes I think), the governeur of Alabama, other politicians and those TV-people like Oprah and Dr. Phil. They all had their words about Aruba and it's very easy to bring a small island/country in disgrace. But do they know what they are doing? I guess not...
I registered under the nick 'MadMaster' @ SM.
Please let me in...
[..]
For me personal, I want a good investigation too.
To be honoust, imo Beth Twitty made a fool of herself after Natalee was lost. I understand, nobody wants to see her daughter disappear, but the way she acted at that time (against Aruba once more...) was foollish and understandable that some locals were protesting against her.
I'm not sure if the Aruban gouverment is really involved the way you say.
Maybe they did work not very well, maybe Joran is just smart enough. The whole is watching them again right now with all problems that comes with it. I know Aruba is not happy with case and it doesn't do them any good. So why would they cover the case while they know their economical position will dropp again after it was climbing up a little last year?
Like I stated the good people of Aruba should not suffer and I feel bad for them but something has to give here. No one has tried to help this poor girl and her family except Jossy Mansur. It has been relentlis from the ATA,AHATA and fake Aruban reporters spreading horrendous info about this murdered victim and her family. ATA has no business being involved in a murder investigation!! They have never stopped!! I disagree totally about Beth acting foolish..Do you have any idea what she has been through? Why was Paul Van Der Sloots best friend allowed to lead a murder investigation for his best friend and his son? I could go on and on..The conflict of interest was enormous and Beth suffered big..Her daughter will never be coming home.
I am sorry about rude posters!! I have seen many Arubans and Americans in Aruba doing the same thing! Lets be civil and talk this out..
You have been approved at SM!
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Let me say this as a short anwer, I simply don't have enough time to get into this case too deep:quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:59 schreef observer777 het volgende:
We should maybe chat on a PM..We have a lot to talk about..It's simple the Defense,Prosecution,Police and Judges all worked together to protect these pimps and cover up a murder of a young girl. Then the Aruban Govt has spent much money on a campaign to slander,lie and spread wrong information about this poor family and her daughter who was murdered..At the same time they depend on Americans for 70% percent of the total revenue for that island..Natalee did not run away to brazil,her father did not impregnate her,she was not a drug addict,she did not run away!!!!!!!!etc etc etc..
Like I stated the good people of Aruba should not suffer and I feel bad for them but something has to give here. No one has tried to help this poor girl and her family except Jossy Mansur. It has been relentlis from the ATA,AHATA and fake Aruban reporters spreading horrendous info about this murdered victim and her family. ATA has no business being involved in a murder investigation!! They have never stopped!! I disagree totally about Beth acting foolish..Do you have any idea what she has been through? Why was Paul Van Der Sloots best friend allowed to lead a murder investigation for his best friend and his son? I could go on and on..The conflict of interest was enormous and Beth suffered big..Her daughter will never be coming home.
I am sorry about rude posters!! I have seen many Arubans and Americans in Aruba doing the same thing! Lets be civil and talk this out..
You have been approved at SM!
Like I said before, errors have been made on both sides but I don't believe that the economical situation of Aruba, which wasn't that good already before this case happened, have to suffer even more because the Aruban/Dutch (??) gouvernment is covering Paul v/d Sloot and his son & friends.
I simply can't see the point of that, imo there's not even a reason for that.
And maybe I call Beth foolish because I think she's a little bit over the top with her (re)actions. Meanwhile I know that she has lost her daughter, but simply kickin' and bashing everybody around didn't solved any case...
Thanks for letting me in at SM, I will show up sooner or later...
See you at SM..I hope you can see our point of view..Many of the posters there have followed this case since 2005 and are extremely knowledgeable about most everything that has happened. I hope it is a good learning experience for everyone.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
I'm sorry for being 'different', but I'm not gonna tell a different story overthere then I do overhere...quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 04:36 schreef observer777 het volgende:
See you at SM..I hope you can see our point of view..Many of the posters there have followed this case since 2005 and are extremely knowledgeable about most everything that has happened. I hope it is a good learning experience for everyone.
Hi observer777,
You seem to have a lot of information about this case. I would like to ask you the following questions. Maybe you have the answers.
1. Why was this initial poster put up if Beth immediately knew (so she said on TV) that her daughter was harmed or kidnapped? Did she think Natalee was still alive then?
which is later replaced by this poster:
2. Why were the friends of Natalee not questioned by the Aruban police and immediately flew home the day after Natalee went missing?
3. What happened to the Mr. Joe Mammana who helped Beth in her search for Natalee?
4. It took 6 months for Natalees name te be on the FBI's missing persons list? Do you maybe know why?
5. What does Scared Monkeys think about the boycot of Aruba in November 2005 of Gov. Riley (see: Boycot Aruba and the Twitty's, while Aruba probably did everything possible to help the Twitty - Holloway family in their search for Natalee?
That while Jug Twitty has send this letter To Gov Riley in august 2005?
6. Is it true that Gerald Dompig couldn't do a research on the background of the Holloway-Twitty's and was threatened by the FBI because of that?
7. What do you think about this Dutch documentary of Netwerk (aired on July 5th 2007) about the case?
Netwerk (5 juli 2007) - Part 1
Netwerk (5 juli 2007) - Part 2
or without English voice-over KLIK
I'm just curious. I hope you or SM have some answers on my questions. Thanks in advance
Now I go to sleep
I hopefully will read you answer later
[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door BwennieBren op 06-02-2008 05:52:03 ]
You seem to have a lot of information about this case. I would like to ask you the following questions. Maybe you have the answers.
1. Why was this initial poster put up if Beth immediately knew (so she said on TV) that her daughter was harmed or kidnapped? Did she think Natalee was still alive then?
which is later replaced by this poster:
2. Why were the friends of Natalee not questioned by the Aruban police and immediately flew home the day after Natalee went missing?
3. What happened to the Mr. Joe Mammana who helped Beth in her search for Natalee?
4. It took 6 months for Natalees name te be on the FBI's missing persons list? Do you maybe know why?
5. What does Scared Monkeys think about the boycot of Aruba in November 2005 of Gov. Riley (see: Boycot Aruba and the Twitty's, while Aruba probably did everything possible to help the Twitty - Holloway family in their search for Natalee?
That while Jug Twitty has send this letter To Gov Riley in august 2005?
6. Is it true that Gerald Dompig couldn't do a research on the background of the Holloway-Twitty's and was threatened by the FBI because of that?
7. What do you think about this Dutch documentary of Netwerk (aired on July 5th 2007) about the case?
Netwerk (5 juli 2007) - Part 1
Netwerk (5 juli 2007) - Part 2
or without English voice-over KLIK
I'm just curious. I hope you or SM have some answers on my questions. Thanks in advance
Now I go to sleep
I hopefully will read you answer later [ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door BwennieBren op 06-02-2008 05:52:03 ]
Ik ben niet labiel. Ik ben emotioneel flexibel.
I want people from Aruba and Holland to post over at SM..Trust me many Americans don't know very much about the case and only see what the American media has shown and it has been awful coverage with people that know nothing about the case. You are doing good and I appreciate you talking to so many with so many questions..But I think you don't know everything about this case and what we all have been through..I hope you take a interest because over and over again I see scared people in Aruba that truly don't even know what took place in there own country. Some do,but most don't!!quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 05:37 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
[..]
I'm sorry for being 'different', but I'm not gonna tell a different story overthere then I do overhere...
Like that poster was trying to tell you,the OM kept asking Natalee's Family if she had seizures just a few days after she dissapeared..She never ever had any history of that and the Family thought it was strange the Aruban Authorities kept asking them that!! We all saw in Joran's Confession with De Vries he said the same thing and he acted out her shaking violently before she died..I am telling you Joran confessed back in June 2005 and this was all covered up!!
[ Bericht 6% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 06:53:02 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:47 schreef Yavido het volgende:
[..]
A good advice, don't give this guy too much credits. He's provocate all the time in discussions with his 'evidence' argument.
The principle reason for it was to put pressure on "the authorities" to put their weight behind solving the case. Making them choose between covering up for the perpetrators or the economy of Aruba. If its apparently a game of interests, not one of justice, then ok lets play the game of interests and see when the declining tourism becomes a factor.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:33 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
[..]
I'm on Aruba right now, visiting friends who work in the tourism section of the island and they really feel the dropdown of American tourists every day.
Ofcourse, there are good and bad people all around the world, but why are the US people keep bashing whole Aruba and it's economical position for this case? Are they all guilty, did they all helped Joran van der Sloot or...?
I visit Aruba very often and although I don't want to say that there is no corruption or anything like that at all, I think corruption is everywhere (also in the US) and that's what i call the hypocritical part of the story...
I really cant condemn Beth, the family and the people around them for starting this campaign against Aruba (and the Netherlands). Beth is a mother fighting for her child, she's going to use whatever means she's got. She didnt have a whole lot of options either. Put pressure on "the powers that be" by hitting them in the purse. Maybe it was even hoped the people of Aruba themselves would start demanding a resolution.
I do think that people like Doctor "I edit creatively" Phil and Bill "the Dutch have sex breaks during work" O'Reilly where way off. But then again, integrity and television is mostly an oxymoron anyway.
Did Joran also had something to do with 9-11?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 06:07 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
I want people from Aruba and Holland to post over at SM..Trust me many Americans don't know very much about the case and only see what the American media has shown and it has been awful coverage with people that know nothing about the case. You are doing good and I appreciate you talking to so many with so many questions..But I think you don't know everything about this case and what we all have been through..I hope you take a interest because over and over again I see scared people in Aruba that truly don't even know what took place in there own country. Some do,but most don't!!
Like that poster was trying to tell you,the OM kept asking Natalee's Family if she had seizures just a few days after she dissapeared..She never ever had any history of that and the Family thought it was strange the Aruban Authorities kept asking them that!! We all saw in Joran's Confession with De Vries he said the same thing and he acted out her shaking violently before she died..I am telling you Joran confessed back in June 2005 and this was all covered up!!
I like ur paranoia, u r telling stories that r interesting to read but they don't contain any evidence, just another conspiracy theory. Pity it seems like u start to beleive it.
I did not ead the enitre topic but have u also looked at the stories about natalee being abused by her stepfather and maybe was even pregnant from him?
And far as i'm concerned also that story is just a theory without any proof. Just like every other story about this case.
I don't like joran, he's scum just like a lot of american and dutch teenage boys and me bush, but without evidence, he is already convicted by 'the people' . Totally disgusting.
quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 05:46 schreef BwennieBren het volgende:
Hi observer777,
You seem to have a lot of information about this case. I would like to ask you the following questions. Maybe you have the answers.
------------------------------------------
Hi,I hope you are sincere and not coming from one of the anti-beths site or are you just misinformed?
Where have you been reading about this case? You really need to go to another blog!! You can't believe a word from the Mouth of Julia Renfro!! She is a proven liar and she is sinister! I am tired so I will do this quickly off the top of my head.
-------------------------------------------
1. Why was this initial poster put up if Beth immediately knew (so she said on TV) that her daughter was harmed or kidnapped? Did she think Natalee was still alive then?
-----------------------------------------
That poster was made by Julia Renfro and Angela M..That is there cell numbers on the posters which they lied about in the video you posted! She probably thought she was alive,she had no reason to lose all hope that first few days.Natalee was a goody two shoes and I would have thought the same thing if Natalee was my daughter. Natalee did not do drugs,never run away before and was a str8 A student. What was she supposed to put on the fliers? Why has Julia Renfro deliberately lied about this murdered victim and her Family? For money or because she is friends of the sloots?Why did she tell the Family Natalee was confirmed dead and to show up at the courthouse for a press conference just a few days after NH dissapeared?Only when they showed up no one was there. Why was she spreading rumors almost daily that Natalee ran away to other countries,ran away with a blue eyed dutch boy? I could write a full page of her lies,she is one sick person!
which is later replaced by this poster:
2. Why were the friends of Natalee not questioned by the Aruban police and immediately flew home the day after Natalee went missing?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Look the kids had scheduled flights home were they supposed to miss all there flights? They didn't even realize Natalee was missing until they were all getting ready to go the airport. They were all questioned extensively by the FBI and later the ALE I beleive,the answers do not lie in Mountain Brook and if someone thinks so they are sadly mistaken. What are they supposed to know about what Joran and the Kalpoes brothers did to her? They were the last ones seen with her and were caught lying immediately.
The Aruban police didn't even take Jug Twitty's statement for like 30 days and others that were there that first night there statements were never taken. The lead investigator Dennis Jacobs was caught changing Beths statement..Can you believe that? When she went back at a much later date they promised her she could make a new statement but instead grilled her on insurance money and dealings with Colombians..Unreal huh? Did you know what lead investigator dennis jacobs asked Natalee's dad when they first met? How much money do you have? Told him to go to Carlos and Charlies and not worry about searching,she will show up,go have a beer,but watch your dink because people put drugs into them!!
3. What happened to the Mr. Joe Mammana who helped Beth in her search for Natalee?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure..Do you know? I think he took interest because he helps missing and exploited people..Why do you ask? This guy just wanted to help and has nothing to do with anything.
4. It took 6 months for Natalees name te be on the FBI's missing persons list? Do you maybe know why?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm..Good question..You should ask them..
5. What does Scared Monkeys think about the boycot of Aruba in November 2005 of Gov. Riley[/url] (see: and the Twitty's, while Aruba probably did ]everything possible[/url] to help the Twitty - Holloway family in their search for Natalee?
That while Jug Twitty has send ]this letter[/url] To Gov Riley in august 2005?
------------------------------------------------------------------
SM mostly in in full support of a boycott and ask's all americans to stop traveling until Natalee finally gets a honest Investigation and the Aruban Authorities expose the cover up and stop protecting those that murdered Natalee.. But I can't speak for everyone..You should ask them! What was the Family supposed to do?They were already threatened by the lead prosecuter and the mnister of justice that they would stop the case if the family didnt stop complaining. Every hope they had of ever seeing there daughter again rested in the hands of the Arubans..They were helpless and it was absolutely shocking what the Aruban Authorities did to this poor family and natalee.The conflict of interest is unbelievable and so was the cover up. Why was Jan Van Der Straaten allowed to lead the Investigation when his best friend and son were arrested on suspicion of rape,murder and kidnapping? Is it coincidence that they were allowed to roam free for 10 days while they tried to frame to innocent men? You know on June 1st everyone knew they were lying about where they dropped of the girl but still they were allowed to destroy evidence and cover up?
6. Is it true that Gerald Dompig couldn't do a research on the background of the Holloway-Twitty's and was threatened by the FBI because of that?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I don't work for the FBI but this guy Dompig lost all credibility..He has zero. He was trying to dig up dirt and the FBI wanted no part of his dirtball tactics and disinformation campaign..Reminds me of the chief prosecuter who wrote the justice dept in usa asking about beths relation to hitler and if they traveled to austria. What did that have to do with anything? Didnt Jorans Lawyer a few weeks into the Investigation confess to her that Joran played a major role in Natalee's dissapearance but it was up to her to prove it? Isnt that illegal? Did KJ do anything about hearing that info?Dompig? The same guy who said JK2 were guilty as hell?Same guy who on 4 consecutive interviews told completely different things? Same guy who's brother in law help set up two innocent men and distract attention away from the real killers? Same brother in law who said he saw Natalee with cocaine?Dompig,Same guy who asked to block the search of the Van Der Sloot home and was accused by Judge Wit of obstructing justice? Isnt he related to the Kalpoes also?
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7. What do you think about this Dutch documentary of Netwerk (aired on July 5th 2007) about the case?
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Thats not a dutch documenatry..Arent those people from Aruba lying about the case and friends of the Van Der Sloots? Isn't that Julia Renfro,AngelaM and Rene'e Guilen?Everything in here is a complete lie!! These people really should be in prison for lying,slandering and obstructing a murder investigation..What they are doing to a victim and her family is criminal..I guess people will do anything for money
I'm just curious. I hope you or SM have some answers on my questions. Thanks in advance
-------------------------------------------------------
Your welcome..I hope I dont come off rough and believe me I have a ton more to say..I am tired and it's late and this awful campaign and lies have been going on for 32 months now..I hope this answered your questions. I was honest and I hope you are the same.
Now I go to sleep
[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 08:15:28 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
this is really unbelievable!!!quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 06:07 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Like that poster was trying to tell you,the OM kept asking Natalee's Family if she had seizures just a few days after she dissapeared..She never ever had any history of that and the Family thought it was strange the Aruban Authorities kept asking them that!! We all saw in Joran's Confession with De Vries he said the same thing and he acted out her shaking violently before she died..I am telling you Joran confessed back in June 2005 and this was all covered up!!
joran MUST have told them.
i suspect the were trying to make it into a 'kind of' natural death.
but somehow that didn't work. because of course more happened to natalee, that's why she needed to be disposed of.
but that's already established.
but this is proof that the knew what happened right from the beginning.
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Hi Klummie!! Everything I say I can back up!! I wouldn't be here if I couldn't and I will provide as much evidence as I can that is real and can be proven to a degree here on the internet..For some reason I get the feeling that I may never be able to prove anything to you? Please let me know now before I waste my time with you. I don't like conspiracy theories at all trust me..You have got to be kidding me? Natalee pregnant by her stepdad?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:43 schreef Klummie het volgende:
[..]
Did Joran also had something to do with 9-11?
I like ur paranoia, u r telling stories that r interesting to read but they don't contain any evidence, just another conspiracy theory. Pity it seems like u start to beleive it.
I did not ead the enitre topic but have u also looked at the stories about natalee being abused by her stepfather and maybe was even pregnant from him?
And far as i'm concerned also that story is just a theory without any proof. Just like every other story about this case.
I don't like joran, he's scum just like a lot of american and dutch teenage boys and me bush, but without evidence, he is already convicted by 'the people' . Totally disgusting.
Cover Up by Natalee's Family??LOL!!! You are way off my friend..Like I said everything I post is the truth and I back everything up..Where are those two freaks that were allowed to come on TV by the Aruban Govt and not prove one thing? Bring them here I will rip them to shreds!! Hmm..You are way off!! Whats disgusting was the Aruban Govt,they chose to cover up a murder and launch a campaign that lied,slandered and attacked a helpless victim and her family..Believe me Natalee's family wasn't the first they did this to. If they didnt get on that island so quickly and the media attention this would have been like all the other people that vanished or killed themselves..They would know absolutely nothing!!
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
From Jug Twitty on SM Radio 2-6-08quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:58 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
this is really unbelievable!!!
joran MUST have told them.
i suspect the were trying to make it into a 'kind of' natural death.
but somehow that didn't work. because of course more happened to natalee, that's why she needed to be disposed of.
but that's already established.
but this is proof that the knew what happened right from the beginning.
JUG: This thing has been a coverup since day one. They knew Natalee wasn't alive since the second day. They keep asking if Natalee was an epileptic.
Good Morning,They knew this and a whole lot more! Yes,they came out last year to the world saying Natalee died of a cocaine overdose and killed herself. It was all over the American TV here..They did something terrible to the girl thats for sure..If it was a natural death or overdose why the need to get rid of her body forever?
[ Bericht 9% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 08:23:01 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Well the cover up theory is of course a "conspiracy theory" in the actual meaning of the word but I understand what you mean. Labeling it "just another conspiracy theory" is just a easy way to dismiss and discredit it without actually having to give any arguments. And dismissing it a a conspiracy theory and then bringing up the blatant disinfo about Natalee being abused by her stepfather? Talk about conspiracies.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:01 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Hi Klummie!! Everything I say I can back up!! I wouldn't be here if I couldn't and I will provide as much evidence as I can that is real and can be proven to a degree here on the internet..For some reason I get the feeling that I may never be able to prove anything to you? Please let me know now before I waste my time with you. I don't like conspiracy theories at all trust me..
I would like to hear Klummies explanation for why the OM did research a family history of seizures right in the beginning.
So you dont acknowledge the law as it is in this present form, therefore you will get your way, even outside of the system?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:21 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
The principle reason for it was to put pressure on "the authorities" to put their weight behind solving the case. Making them choose between covering up for the perpetrators or the economy of Aruba. If its apparently a game of interests, not one of justice, then ok lets play the game of interests and see when the declining tourism becomes a factor.
I can.quote:I really cant condemn Beth, the family and the people around them for starting this campaign against Aruba (and the Netherlands).
Why would she damage a whole country, just because she had a feeling that injustice was done?quote:Beth is a mother fighting for her child, she's going to use whatever means she's got.
She has the same options as everybody else; the criminal justice departement. She has no other privileges beyond these.quote:She didnt have a whole lot of options either. Put pressure on "the powers that be" by hitting them in the purse. Maybe it was even hoped the people of Aruba themselves would start demanding a resolution.
True.quote:I do think that people like Doctor "I edit creatively" Phil and Bill "the Dutch have sex breaks during work" O'Reilly where way off. But then again, integrity and television is mostly an oxymoron anyway.
I agree. These investigations that people do are mostly based on blurs of stories, mixed together with some vague statements from people that are acclaimed to be in on the conspiracy.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:43 schreef Klummie het volgende:
[..]
Did Joran also had something to do with 9-11?
I like ur paranoia, u r telling stories that r interesting to read but they don't contain any evidence, just another conspiracy theory. Pity it seems like u start to beleive it.
I did not ead the enitre topic but have u also looked at the stories about natalee being abused by her stepfather and maybe was even pregnant from him?
And far as i'm concerned also that story is just a theory without any proof. Just like every other story about this case.
I don't like joran, he's scum just like a lot of american and dutch teenage boys and me bush, but without evidence, he is already convicted by 'the people' . Totally disgusting.
I find that hard to believe, and like to remain critical against these stories, except that if you do ever critize these people, you are immediately accused of being 'anti-Holloway' or some other stereotype of person. That really gives the whole discussion an personal twist that is unnessecary imo.
Well, without any real hard evidence backing any story up, it is still just another conspiracy story imo.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:31 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
Well the cover up theory is of course a "conspiracy theory" in the actual meaning of the word but I understand what you mean. Labeling it "just another conspiracy theory" is just a easy way to dismiss and discredit it without actually having to give any arguments. And dismissing it a a conspiracy theory and then bringing up the blatant disinfo about Natalee being abused by her stepfather? Talk about conspiracies.
For what I know about investigations (I have talked to people doing investigations on regular basis, e.g. police work), they start by getting as much information about the victim, the personal surroundings and the environment he/she lives in.quote:I would like to hear Klummies explanation for why the OM did research a family history of seizures right in the beginning.
If you would elaborate on this subject, you could also research if the family has been asked other questions about her health, e.g. if she was asmathic or had other forms of diseases that might have something to do with her dissapearance.
In time If you are being honest I will prove everything to you. These are hardly stories I posted and I consider much of it fact..You should give me a chance.. All the evidence matches up that I speak of..Believe me,Natalee's parents have zero reason to lie about anything. The statements of Aruban officilas and suspects are important because it proves they are lying..You can't dispute that. You can't argue with what came out of there mouth in the newspapers and on TV and then told something totally different or the facts prove otherwise. I am not here to BS anyone at all,I have better things to do with my time..quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
I agree. These investigations that people do are mostly based on blurs of stories, mixed together with some vague statements from people that are acclaimed to be in on the conspiracy.
I find that hard to believe, and like to remain critical against these stories, except that if you do ever critize these people, you are immediately accused of being 'anti-Holloway' or some other stereotype of person. That really gives the whole discussion an personal twist that is unnessecary imo.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
If Beth or anyone else has broken the law then they should be prosecuted. I dont think she has. Now you may morally condemn a boycott campaign, thats fine, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. Mine is that I dont hold it against her. On the contrary, her fighting spirit makes her admirable imo. And what other options did she have in your opinion? With all the corruption and crookedness going on? She had the media and public opinion and has used it for her cause. Good for her!quote:
As they would say in the Matrix; 'You believe want you want to believe'.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:46 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
In time If you are being honest I will prove everything to you. These are hardly stories I posted and I consider much of it fact..You should give me a chance.. All the evidence matches up that I speak of..Believe me,Natalee's parents have zero reason to lie about anything. The statements of Aruban officilas and suspects are important because it proves they are lying..You can't dispute that. You can't argue with what came out of there mouth in the newspapers and on TV and then told something totally different or the facts prove otherwise. I am not here to BS anyone at all,I have better things to do with my time..
Interesting, if you are talking about psychical evidence, in what form are we talking about? Do you have tapes/recordings of the claims that are made? Have you been in Aruba yourself? Or did you collect evidence from other sites/sources?
You are absolutely right about this. Except I don`t find it very good that one person can damage a whole island/country for trying to get the alledged truth. In the process, a lot of innocent people are hurt, by both Beth and Joran imo.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:47 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
If Beth or anyone else has broken the law then they should be prosecuted. I dont think she has. Now you may morally condemn a boycott campaign, thats fine, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. Mine is that I dont hold it against her. On the contrary, her fighting spirit makes her admirable imo. And what other options did she have in your opinion? With all the corruption and crookedness going on? She had the media and public opinion and has used it for her cause. Good for her!
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door #ANONIEM op 06-02-2008 08:55:37 ]
Like I already stated I do not work for the Aruban Police Dept or KLPD..I don't have access to the dossier that they have refused to show the Family of Natalee. I have done everything possible on my end to solve this case and doing research..It's up to you if you want to believe the pain staking research done by many. I can't prove to you anything if you aren't willing to listen. I didn't come here to argue,I simply came here to share information in hopes of helping put together the final pieces of this puzzle.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:50 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
As they would say in the Matrix; 'You believe want you want to believe'.
Interesting, if you are talking about psychical evidence, in what form are we talking about? Do you have tapes/recordings of the claims that are made? Have you been in Aruba yourself? Or did you collect evidence from other sites/sources?
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Yes well it is a question of ethics or morality. Would I have done the same? In a second. You said she doesnt have any special privileges. I think it could be argued that parents of missing children, most likely victims of a crime in that respect do have certain privileges. They are "allowed" a bit more to get answers - from a moral point of view. Besides, when it comes to it who really damaged the image of Aruba?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:52 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
You are absolutely right about this. Except I don`t find it very good that one person can damage a whole island/country for trying to get the truth. In the process, a lot of innocent people are hurt, by both Beth and Joran imo.
http://scaredmonkeys.com/(...)hodges-and-art-wood/
http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/podpress_trac/web/459/0/020508.mp3
here is a audio mp3 to listen to a radio show of last night.
* Robin Sax, author, speaker, media analyst and Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney
* Christopher Darden, Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Prosecutor
* George “Jug” Twitty, Natalee Holloway’s stepfather
* Dr. Andrew Hodges, author of Into The Deep: The Hidden Confession of Natalee’s Killer
* Jossy Mansur, Managing Editor of Diario, discussing recent developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation
* Art Wood, former Secret Service agent discussing the Natalee Holloway case.
really good insights
mentioned earlier bij Observer777:
in dutch because this is crucial:
de stiefvader zegt hier in dit radioprogramma dat een paar dagen na natalee's verdwijning de politie hem vele keren vroeg of natalee weleens epileptische aanvallen had gehad. jug twitty onkende dit en begreep maar niet waarom ze dat vroegen. wat had dit met de zaak te maken?
nu in de tapes van peter r. de vries vertelden en laat joran zien hoe natalee zat te shaken en te trillen.
dit moet joran dus al vanaf het begin aan de politie hebben verteld!!!
anders vragen ze het niet herhaaldelijk aan jug twitty toch terwijl hij zegt dat natalee dit nooit gehad heeft?
hoe komen ze daar anders bij?
joran heeft dus al meteen begin juni 2005 bekend.
waarschijnlijk probeerde de politie er zo een natuurlijke dood van te maken zodat het geen ernstige zaak was die toerisme kon schaden.
maar dit lukte allemaal niet want het was geen natuurlijke dood - duidelijk aan het lichaam te zien, daarom moest het gedumpt worden.
luister maar naar het radioprogramma, we hebben ook naar joran geluisterd afgelopen zondag.
dit is cruciaal imo.
http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/podpress_trac/web/459/0/020508.mp3
here is a audio mp3 to listen to a radio show of last night.
* Robin Sax, author, speaker, media analyst and Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney
* Christopher Darden, Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Prosecutor
* George “Jug” Twitty, Natalee Holloway’s stepfather
* Dr. Andrew Hodges, author of Into The Deep: The Hidden Confession of Natalee’s Killer
* Jossy Mansur, Managing Editor of Diario, discussing recent developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation
* Art Wood, former Secret Service agent discussing the Natalee Holloway case.
really good insights
mentioned earlier bij Observer777:
in dutch because this is crucial:
de stiefvader zegt hier in dit radioprogramma dat een paar dagen na natalee's verdwijning de politie hem vele keren vroeg of natalee weleens epileptische aanvallen had gehad. jug twitty onkende dit en begreep maar niet waarom ze dat vroegen. wat had dit met de zaak te maken?
nu in de tapes van peter r. de vries vertelden en laat joran zien hoe natalee zat te shaken en te trillen.
dit moet joran dus al vanaf het begin aan de politie hebben verteld!!!
anders vragen ze het niet herhaaldelijk aan jug twitty toch terwijl hij zegt dat natalee dit nooit gehad heeft?
hoe komen ze daar anders bij?
joran heeft dus al meteen begin juni 2005 bekend.
waarschijnlijk probeerde de politie er zo een natuurlijke dood van te maken zodat het geen ernstige zaak was die toerisme kon schaden.
maar dit lukte allemaal niet want het was geen natuurlijke dood - duidelijk aan het lichaam te zien, daarom moest het gedumpt worden.
luister maar naar het radioprogramma, we hebben ook naar joran geluisterd afgelopen zondag.
dit is cruciaal imo.
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
I`m not critizing your work, in the contrary. The police dossiers are always confidential, no family or victim ever gets access to that, thats standard protocol (in spite of what you see on the tv-series where it is common)quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:59 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Like I already stated I do not work for the Aruban Police Dept or KLPD..I don't have access to the dossier that they have refused to show the Family of Natalee. I have done everything possible on my end to solve this case and doing research..It's up to you if you want to believe the pain staking research done by many. I can't prove to you anything if you aren't willing to listen. I didn't come here to argue,I simply came here to share information in hopes of helping put together the final pieces of this puzzle.
Its not a matter of "willing to believe". I just find it fascinating that the other theory`s that are mentioned here are based on some form of evidence that is vague in its description.
And it is arbitrary that you are working for a good cause, i`m not trying to delude your research, I was just curious how you have come to these conclusions and with what evidence.
Well, this is a whole new discussion point and I do not think it should be in this topicquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:03 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
Yes well it is a question of ethics or morality. Would I have done the same? In a second. You said she doesnt have any special privileges. I think it could be argued that parents of missing children, most likely victims of a crime in that respect do have certain privileges. They are "allowed" a bit more to get answers - from a moral point of view. Besides, when it comes to it who really damaged the image of Aruba?
Lets just focus on the work that observer777 has done so far.
if beth didn't organise such a campaign to find what happened to her daughter but instead just waited in Alabma for Aruba to solve this.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
I agree. These investigations that people do are mostly based on blurs of stories, mixed together with some vague statements from people that are acclaimed to be in on the conspiracy.
I find that hard to believe, and like to remain critical against these stories, except that if you do ever critize these people, you are immediately accused of being 'anti-Holloway' or some other stereotype of person. That really gives the whole discussion an personal twist that is unnessecary imo.
if there was no boycott.
if there was such a big news 'hype' about it.
i doubt Peter R. de Vries would have picked this case up.
and i doubt Patrick would have come forward.
but i am sure Joran would have been roaming around causing trouble and getting away with it.
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Misschien heeft Joran er iets over gezegd dat ze eerder in de avond zoiets had, of hebben haar vriendinnen zoiets gezegd...het is redelijk standaard dat ze zulke dingen vragen hoor, alleen vragen ze het meestal maar 1 keer.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:04 schreef Caesu het volgende:
de stiefvader zegt hier in dit radioprogramma dat een paar dagen na natalee's verdwijning de politie hem vele keren vroeg of natalee weleens epileptische aanvallen had gehad. jug twitty onkende dit en begreep maar niet waarom ze dat vroegen. wat had dit met de zaak te maken?
Of Joran heeft deze tapes ook geluisterd en verspreid desinformatie, in lijn met deze tapes.quote:nu in de tapes van peter r. de vries vertelden en laat joran zien hoe natalee zat te shaken en te trillen.
dit moet joran dus al vanaf het begin aan de politie hebben verteld!!!
Zoals ik al zei; standaard protocol, behalve het herhaaldelijk vragen.quote:anders vragen ze het niet herhaaldelijk aan jug twitty toch terwijl hij zegt dat natalee dit nooit gehad heeft?
hoe komen ze daar anders bij?
Dat is een snelle conclusie en wat veronderstellingen, daar waag ik me niet aan.quote:joran heeft dus al meteen begin juni 2005 bekend.
waarschijnlijk probeerde de politie er zo een natuurlijke dood van te maken zodat het geen ernstige zaak was die toerisme kon schaden.
maar dit lukte allemaal niet want het was geen natuurlijke dood - duidelijk aan het lichaam te zien, daarom moest het gedumpt worden.
Mwah. Zo cruciaal is het niet, het is echter vreemd dat er herhaaldelijk word gevraagd over deze ziekte. Wat de man echter niet zegt; hebben ze naar meer ziektes gevraagd, en vroeg dezelfde persoon meerdere malen dezelfde vraag?quote:luister maar naar het radioprogramma, we hebben ook naar joran geluisterd afgelopen zondag.
dit is cruciaal imo.
Dat zijn cruciale vragen imo.
waarom moet iedereen op Sm gaan posten ?
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
heb je er al naar geluisterd?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:12 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
Misschien heeft Joran er iets over gezegd dat ze eerder in de avond zoiets had, of hebben haar vriendinnen zoiets gezegd...het is redelijk standaard dat ze zulke dingen vragen hoor, alleen vragen ze het meestal maar 1 keer.
[..]
Of Joran heeft deze tapes ook geluisterd en verspreid desinformatie, in lijn met deze tapes.
[..]
Zoals ik al zei; standaard protocol, behalve het herhaaldelijk vragen.
[..]
Dat is een snelle conclusie en wat veronderstellingen, daar waag ik me niet aan.
[..]
Mwah. Zo cruciaal is het niet, het is echter vreemd dat er herhaaldelijk word gevraagd over deze ziekte. Wat de man echter niet zegt; hebben ze naar meer ziektes gevraagd, en vroeg dezelfde persoon meerdere malen dezelfde vraag?
Dat zijn cruciale vragen imo.
programma is 6 uur geleden uitgezonden (03:00). dus Joran heeft het iig niet gehoord ten tijde van z'n betekentenis tegen Patrick en al helemaal niet ten tijde van z'n bekentenis tegen de politie op Aruba.
kan jij een reden verzinnen waarom ze dit herhaaldelijk aan haar stiefvader vragen en hij ontkent dit en ze vragen het weer?
dit moet bij joran vandaan komen denk ik dan.
op scaredmonkeys zijn ze al vanaf dag 1 er mee bezig. ze weten enorm veel van de zaak af. neem dat maar van observer777 aan. de beschrijving van de gebeurtenissen door joran klopt vrij aardig met hun theorie, dit hoor je ook in het radioprogramma van afgelopen nacht.
ik raad echt aan er naar te luisteren.
nu heb je alleen joran gehoord afgelopen zondag, daar hoor een andere kant van het verhaal.
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Thankyou! It is just very time consuming for each subject you want proof of..If you want proof that very credible Aruban Officials said there was blood in Deepaks car..I will gather everything here and post it..If you want proof that Joran confessed on June 10th 2005..I will do the same..These aren't theories that I have posted I think the evidence speaks for it's self and we have known about most of this for well over two years..If I am speculating or theorizing I will tell you,I try not to do that very often..When someone asked me what I thought happened to Natalee,I gave my opinion and speculated a bit on that. But I have read and seen most everything on this case and have researched it for 32 months..I don't mind doing the work..quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:08 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
I`m not critizing your work, in the contrary. The police dossiers are always confidential, no family or victim ever gets access to that, thats standard protocol (in spite of what you see on the tv-series where it is common)
Its not a matter of "willing to believe". I just find it fascinating that the other theory`s that are mentioned here are based on some form of evidence that is vague in its description.
And it is arbitrary that you are working for a good cause, i`m not trying to delude your research, I was just curious how you have come to these conclusions and with what evidence.
I understand your point of view..If someone approached me and told me something I have never seen before I would certainly want proof as well. If you are curious about something and you think I am wrong and I am guessing or speculating..Please let me know..I understand you have never seen me before and it sounds like I am showing vague descriptions,I will do my best to show you why I am so confident about the things we have talked about. Believe me I have seen so many weirdos,people deliberately spreading wrong info,so many opinions and people that speculate on what they think. I am not one of those people. I just want this solved so I can move on.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
this is another boot owner epco ongering, who is now also being investigated by the authorities for owning a boot and having connections with the van der sloot family.
They did make alot of statements that did not add up.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:09 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
From Jug Twitty on SM Radio 2-6-08
JUG: This thing has been a coverup since day one. They knew Natalee wasn't alive since the second day. They keep asking if Natalee was an epileptic.
Good Morning,They knew this and a whole lot more! Yes,they came out last year to the world saying Natalee died of a cocaine overdose and killed herself. It was all over the American TV here..They did something terrible to the girl thats for sure..If it was a natural death or overdose why the need to get rid of her body forever?
I heard many different stories about what happend to Natalee. Especially in the beginning, and i think that was one of the reasons why it caught the attention of so many people.
But when I compare this to some other missing person: Madeline, I also see the media "falsely" claming that the parents where involved while weeks later they all of a sudden are not.
So what really is the deal here.
Do i really think they brought the body back to the house, and that is the reason why people claim they have seen the 2 brothers (Satish & Deepak) clean the car?
No, they probably used drugs in the car or did some shit before Natalee got missing and they where scared the police would find out once they started looking for Natalee's DNA in the car.
Joran said himself he didn't know these 2 guys that long, and he said they weren't the brightest 2 on Aruba.
But then again, the first time they got arrested they blamed the murder of Natalee on Joran, and told the police that Joran had a sick mind.
- Maybe O.D.B My Long Distance Family -
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
Dus de stiefvader heeft na de bekentenis van Joran over de epilepsie aanval nu verklaard dat ze hem dat gevraagd hebben, 3 jaar geleden? Is er meer bewijs waaruit blijkt dat de stiefvader dit al eerder heeft verklaard? Want anders zou de stiefvader zo`n verklaring kunnen afleggen om Joran nog verder in het nauw te drijven.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:25 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
heb je er al naar geluisterd?
programma is 6 uur geleden uitgezonden (03:00). dus Joran heeft het iig niet gehoord ten tijde van z'n betekentenis tegen Patrick en al helemaal niet ten tijde van z'n bekentenis tegen de politie op Aruba.
Zie de post hierboven.quote:kan jij een reden verzinnen waarom ze dit herhaaldelijk aan haar stiefvader vragen en hij ontkent dit en ze vragen het weer?
dit moet bij joran vandaan komen denk ik dan.
Ik heb het geluisterd, maar ik vind het nog steeds een hele hoop beredenaties die niet gestoeld zijn op bewijs. De verklaringen waarover gesproken worden, zijn die na te lezen? Van de "officials" van Aruba?quote:op scaredmonkeys zijn ze al vanaf dag 1 er mee bezig. ze weten enorm veel van de zaak af. neem dat maar van observer777 aan. de beschrijving van de gebeurtenissen door joran klopt vrij aardig met hun theorie, dit hoor je ook in het radioprogramma van afgelopen nacht.
ik raad echt aan er naar te luisteren.
nu heb je alleen joran gehoord afgelopen zondag, daar hoor een andere kant van het verhaal.
Ok, I dont have the time now to check the website of SM, so I`ll do that in the evening. If I have some critical questions, i`ll gather them and maybe you can answer them for me, that would be greatquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:26 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Thankyou! It is just very time consuming for each subject you want proof of..If you want proof that very credible Aruban Officials said there was blood in Deepaks car..I will gather everything here and post it..If you want proof that Joran confessed on June 10th 2005..I will do the same..These aren't theories that I have posted I think the evidence speaks for it's self and we have known about most of this for well over two years..If I am speculating or theorizing I will tell you,I try not to do that very often..When someone asked me what I thought happened to Natalee,I gave my opinion and speculated a bit on that. But I have read and seen most everything on this case and have researched it for 32 months..I don't mind doing the work..
I understand your point of view..If someone approached me and told me something I have never seen before I would certainly want proof as well. If you are curious about something and you think I am wrong and I am guessing or speculating..Please let me know..I understand you have never seen me before and it sounds like I am showing vague descriptions,I will do my best to show you why I am so confident about the things we have talked about. Believe me I have seen so many weirdos,people deliberately spreading wrong info,so many opinions and people that speculate on what they think. I am not one of those people. I just want this solved so I can move on.
She would know nothing. She would know about the same as Max De Vries Mom,Buddy Larson's Family,Gary Markings Family and a host of others that dissapeared or died under suspicious circumstances in Aruba..The Aruban Govt thought this would all go away after a few days but they ran into the love of a mother and father and there will to find out what happened to her daughter. Of Course the media attention helped big time.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:12 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
if beth didn't organise such a campaign to find what happened to her daughter but instead just waited in Alabma for Aruba to solve this.
if there was no boycott.
if there was such a big news 'hype' about it.
i doubt Peter R. de Vries would have picked this case up.
and i doubt Patrick would have come forward.
but i am sure Joran would have been roaming around causing trouble and getting away with it.
Have any of you read Beth's,Dave's or Jorans book? All of them were very interesting to read especially Daves...Did you know Anita wrote a book as well over 6 months ago? She hasn't released it yet but it has already been written. What did you guys think of Paul Van Der Sloots big plans to sue the Govt of Aruba again? I seee Joran talked about that in the De Vries show. He was expecting a fat settlement!
Did you guys see what I posted on Paul Van Der Sloot and why he was denied money when he sued the Aruban Govt? That was very important info!! The Court in Aruba denied him money because they said his arrest was just because he told people,witnesses heard and there were wiretaps that showed he picked up Joran and Natalee at 4AM on May30th 2005 and also had two contacts with Natalee..Since he just arrived home that day that means they had to be on May 29th and 30th..
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
hele programma duurt meer dan een uur.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:29 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
Dus de stiefvader heeft na de bekentenis van Joran over de epilepsie aanval nu verklaard dat ze hem dat gevraagd hebben, 3 jaar geleden? Is er meer bewijs waaruit blijkt dat de stiefvader dit al eerder heeft verklaard? Want anders zou de stiefvader zo`n verklaring kunnen afleggen om Joran nog verder in het nauw te drijven.
[..]
Zie de post hierboven.
[..]
Ik heb het geluisterd, maar ik vind het nog steeds een hele hoop beredenaties die niet gestoeld zijn op bewijs. De verklaringen waarover gesproken worden, zijn die na te lezen? Van de "officials" van Aruba?
op internet is natuurlijk helemaal geen 'echt' bewijs te vinden.
dit is een bericht van december 2007:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2463.msg319778#msg319778
"Jug said that the cops kept asking me if Natalee was epileptic...."
hoe oud die quote is weet ik niet. maar ook dat kan je zelf uitzoeken door die quote te traceren op die site.
maar ik heb me nog lang niet ingelezen in de materie.
op scaredmonkeys is zoveel te vinden. niet allemaal te bewijzen. ook misinformatie. ongetwijfeld bar slechte speculaties. het is jammer dat het een rommeltje is daar.
ze zijn er vanaf het begin mee bezig. ik ga je nergens van overtuigen.
maar ik zou zeggen verdiep je er eens echt goed in. er wordt daar echt een eerlijke poging gedaan helderheid in de zaak te krijgen.
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
I've read parts of beth's book. It was something with "the love/hope of a mother" or something. There's a transcript on the oprah winfrey website. Joran's book I didn't read. I don't want to buy it, because he gets money for itquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:38 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
She would know nothing. She would know about the same as Max De Vries Mom,Buddy Larson's Family,Gary Markings Family and a host of others that dissapeared or died under suspicious circumstances in Aruba..The Aruban Govt thought this would all go away after a few days but they ran into the love of a mother and father and there will to find out what happened to her daughter. Of Course the media attention helped big time.
Have any of you read Beth's,Dave's or Jorans book? All of them were very interesting to read especially Daves...Did you know Anita wrote a book as well over 6 months ago? She hasn't released it yet but it has already been written. What did you guys think of Paul Van Der Sloots big plans to sue the Govt of Aruba again? I seee Joran talked about that in the De Vries show. He was expecting a fat settlement!
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Ja, ik ben er ook mee bezig. Tis idd alleen lastig, zoveel informatie om te toetsen, en zo onoverzichtelijk.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:44 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
hele programma duurt meer dan een uur.
op internet is natuurlijk helemaal geen 'echt' bewijs te vinden.
dit is een bericht van december 2007:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2463.msg319778#msg319778
"Jug said that the cops kept asking me if Natalee was epileptic...."
hoe oud die quote is weet ik niet. maar ook dat kan je zelf uitzoeken door die quote te traceren op die site.
maar ik heb me nog lang niet ingelezen in de materie.
op scaredmonkeys is zoveel te vinden. niet allemaal te bewijzen. ook misinformatie. ongetwijfeld bar slechte speculaties. het is jammer dat het een rommeltje is daar.
ze zijn er vanaf het begin mee bezig. ik ga je nergens van overtuigen.
maar ik zou zeggen verdiep je er eens echt goed in. er wordt daar echt een eerlijke poging gedaan helderheid in de zaak te krijgen.
Thank you for your answer.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.
She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.
Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.
Didnt Natalees friend say she was drunk, because they had been drinking all day. Didnt Joran say she was drunk? Didnt others say she was drunk? Plus, she drank 75% Bacardi. Tell me, when someone is already wasted, why the fuck would you use GHB?
And now about the boycot and all;
Hmm, hmm. We sent like F16s and half an army to Aruba, didnt we? + Peter r de Vries who has been working on the case + police arresting whoever had to be arrested etc etc
And THEN get a lot of bullshit from America? How terrible we are and what not. And you approve and even agree with that? Or did you just approve the boycot of Aruba, hmm?
It's like everything Beth says or does is been justified because she lost her kid. And that is total bullcrap. We have done a lot to help this case, and I dont need a patriot to fuck us over.
You dont go on international tv saying "look what they did to a/our country" when you just found out your daughter, who you love and has been lost for 3 years, might have been thrown in the ocean ALIVE. With sharks.
Verkeerde keelgat.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Het gevaar in dit soort zaken is dat als je er te diep inzit en mee bezig bent ,je zelf een bepaalde theorie ontwikkeld hoe het volgens jou gegaan is .
Je staat dan nauwelijks nog open voor andere openingen ,zeker in een nogal ingewikkelde zaak als deze .
Er zijn zoveel onbeantwoorde vragen
Jorran heeft volgens mij wel tientale versies van het verhaal verzonnen
Tegen die zegt ie dit en tegen die dat ,beetje borderline achtige trekjes
volgens mij moet je de grote lijnen en de feiten die er zijn volgen anders kom je er nooit uit.
Volgens mij is er op aruba een clubje actief
hoe dat clubje te werk gaat en wat ze zoal doen is in onderstaand proces verbaal te lezen
ze staan open om met meerde jongens 1 meid te pakken ,dat komt eruit .
er komt een clubje op aruba vakantie vieren
ze tippen via het casino of C&C dat er lekkere meiden aangekomen zijn
de boys gaan erop af en slaan toe
dat dit in het verleden vaker gebeurd is sluit ik niet uit
er zijn daar vaker dames verdwenen nl ,en in mijn visie is er nu toevallig 1 uitgelicht !
oh joran lust ook wel een slokje
PROCES-VERBAAL
We, Dennis Domenico JACOBS and Luigi Angelo Giovanni CROES, head-officer and officer-first class with the Korps Politie Aruba, first mentioned attaced to the robbery project team (Atraco Team) and the latter with the section often occurring crimes district 2, declare the following.
On Friday, June 24th, at approximately 18.40 hours, we, the reporting officers, interrogated/interviewed the suspect:
Joran Andreas Petrus van der SLOOT born in Arnhem, the Netherlands on August 6th 1987, without occupation student (International School of Aruba) and living Montanja 19 on Aruba, for further information.
His statement that was given in Papiamento was translated and transcribed by me, JACOBS, into Dutch and goes as follows.
Before we, the reporting officers, started the interview, I, JACOBS, informed the suspect that he was not obliged to make any statement.
I, JACOBS, also informed the suspect that this interview is being taped.
"You are informing me that you have several questions for me and want to hear an answer to those questions. I am prepared to give them.
To your question whether I know a girl named "Karen" and whether I had a sexual relationship with her, I answer you the following. I know the girl named "Karen". I do not know Karen's last name. I had a sexual relationship with her but I do not remember the time period. (By Karen we mean the witness "Karen Theresa Paulina MARTINA"; remark JACOBS).
To your question whether I had a sexual relationship with Karen during "Carnaval" this year, I answer you in the affirmative. During the "fakkeloptocht" this year I was dancing in the "Last-Lap". I think it was near the bridge of the "Renaissance Hotel" when I saw Karen. I saw that Karen went to dance with Jaime CAARASQUILLA, nickname "Beto". I suspect that Karen was drinking at that moment in time but I did not see that. After the "fakkeloptocht" "Jaime CARRASQUILLA", "Freddy ZEDAN", "Karen" and myself walked to "Carlos & Charlies". According to me "Koen GOTTENBOS" was also with us when we were walking to Carlos & Charlies. Inside Carlos & Charlies Karen and I walked upstairs and started french kissing. After that Karen and me walked outside and walked to the "Pier" due east of Carlos & Charlies. When we were standing on the "Pier" I asked Karen if she could give me a "blow-job". Karen agreed to this and started sucking my penis. I do not remember if I was standing upright or if I was lying down on the ground when Karen gave me the blow-job. I have to state that I wanted to have sexual relations with Karen but that I did not have a condom on me at that precise moment. After Karen had given me the blow-job Freddy ZEDAN called me on my mobile phone. Freddy told me that they were going to go home and asked me how I would get home. According to me Freddy also told me that he was at that moment in time sitting in the car of "Chato". The name of "Chato" is "Leonardo" but I do not know his last name. According to me Chato is from Mexico. Freddy, Karen and me got a ride from Chato. Chato and Freddy were in the front and Karen and me got into the back. When Karen and me were sitting in the back I think I asked whether I had a sexual relation with her, I answer you the following. I know the girl named "Karen". I do not know Karen's last name. I had Karen give me another blow-job, something that she did then do. Chato saw then that Karen was giving me head in his pick-up. Chato drives a green 4-door pick-up of the Ford make when he brought us three, meaning Freddy, Karen and myself a ride to my house. I do not know the license plate of Chato's pick-up. When we arrived at my appartment the 4 of us went inside the appartment. Chato had a hip flask containing whiskey. Chato and Karen drank from the contents. I have to say that I am not sure any more if "Freddy ZEDAN" or "Fernando VIANA" was in the appartment with us. Karen and I went to lie down on the sofa-bed and had put a blanket over us. Karen and I started fondling and having "foreplay". Chato tried to pull the blanket off of us to see what we were doing. Chato asked me to ask Karen if he and I could have sexual relations with Karen together. On Chato's request I asked Karen if she was willing to have sex with me and Chato together. Karen told me that she did not want to have sex with me and Chato. After that Chato and Freddy left. I do not know where Chato and Freddy went to. Karen and I were on the sofa-bed. We started kissing and I fingered Karen. After that I had taken my clothes off. Karen then took off her clothes. At that point I was told by Karen to put on a condom. I went to my drawer and took out a condom and put it on. After that we had sex with each other. I do not know if Karen bled when I had sex with her. At no time did Karen say to me that she did not want to have sex with me. I can also not tell you anymore what the condition was of Karen when I had sex with her in my appartment. She had been drinking but I also had been drinking. We had also both drank from Chato's hip-flask. I don't remember right know what kind of alcoholic drink was in that hip-flask. After Karen and me had sex I went to the bathroom and threw the condom into the toilet. I have no recollection of what happened after that.
I only had sex with Karen three times. The first time I had sex with Karen was on the beach close to the "Havana Niteclub". I do not remember the date, but it was during a "Moonlite Party". On the day Karen and me had sex the first time we had both had alcoholic drinks but we were not drunk.
About two months ago I had sex with Karen for the last time. This happened in my appartement and on that day Karen stayed the night with me. According to me I had told my mother that Karen would be staying for the night.
To your question whether or not I had sex with a girl named "Stephania", I answer you that I have not.
To your question whether I know the girl named "Stephany BOEKHOUWER", I answer you the following. This year, I don't remember the exact date, Freddy, Jaime and me went to a "Houseparty" in Oranjestad. We drove in Jaime's car to the houseparty. The car of Jaime is famous because we had experienced a lot of things in Jaime's car. Jaime has a 4-door green "Honda". On that day Freddy had sex with Stephany BOEKHOUWER on the backseat of Jaime's car. I gave Freddy a condom before he had sex with Stephany. While Freddy was having sex with Stephany on the backseat, Jaime and myself stood down at the trunk of the car and drank alcoholic beverages.
To your question whether I had a relationship with a girl name "Rika", I answer you the following. Rika was my girlfriend but we did not have a sexual relationship with each other. We may have done some french kissing but I did not have sexual relations with her because she is 12 years old. Rika's parents found out about our relationship and that is why we stopped the relationship. I do not know Rika's last name.
This is my statement in accordance with the truth".
J.A.P. van der SLOOT
After the suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT had read the statement he had given, he stated he would persist in it and signed the statement.
The reporting officers,
JACOBS CROES
Je staat dan nauwelijks nog open voor andere openingen ,zeker in een nogal ingewikkelde zaak als deze .
Er zijn zoveel onbeantwoorde vragen
Jorran heeft volgens mij wel tientale versies van het verhaal verzonnen
Tegen die zegt ie dit en tegen die dat ,beetje borderline achtige trekjes
volgens mij moet je de grote lijnen en de feiten die er zijn volgen anders kom je er nooit uit.
Volgens mij is er op aruba een clubje actief
hoe dat clubje te werk gaat en wat ze zoal doen is in onderstaand proces verbaal te lezen
ze staan open om met meerde jongens 1 meid te pakken ,dat komt eruit .
er komt een clubje op aruba vakantie vieren
ze tippen via het casino of C&C dat er lekkere meiden aangekomen zijn
de boys gaan erop af en slaan toe
dat dit in het verleden vaker gebeurd is sluit ik niet uit
er zijn daar vaker dames verdwenen nl ,en in mijn visie is er nu toevallig 1 uitgelicht !
oh joran lust ook wel een slokje
PROCES-VERBAAL
We, Dennis Domenico JACOBS and Luigi Angelo Giovanni CROES, head-officer and officer-first class with the Korps Politie Aruba, first mentioned attaced to the robbery project team (Atraco Team) and the latter with the section often occurring crimes district 2, declare the following.
On Friday, June 24th, at approximately 18.40 hours, we, the reporting officers, interrogated/interviewed the suspect:
Joran Andreas Petrus van der SLOOT born in Arnhem, the Netherlands on August 6th 1987, without occupation student (International School of Aruba) and living Montanja 19 on Aruba, for further information.
His statement that was given in Papiamento was translated and transcribed by me, JACOBS, into Dutch and goes as follows.
Before we, the reporting officers, started the interview, I, JACOBS, informed the suspect that he was not obliged to make any statement.
I, JACOBS, also informed the suspect that this interview is being taped.
"You are informing me that you have several questions for me and want to hear an answer to those questions. I am prepared to give them.
To your question whether I know a girl named "Karen" and whether I had a sexual relationship with her, I answer you the following. I know the girl named "Karen". I do not know Karen's last name. I had a sexual relationship with her but I do not remember the time period. (By Karen we mean the witness "Karen Theresa Paulina MARTINA"; remark JACOBS).
To your question whether I had a sexual relationship with Karen during "Carnaval" this year, I answer you in the affirmative. During the "fakkeloptocht" this year I was dancing in the "Last-Lap". I think it was near the bridge of the "Renaissance Hotel" when I saw Karen. I saw that Karen went to dance with Jaime CAARASQUILLA, nickname "Beto". I suspect that Karen was drinking at that moment in time but I did not see that. After the "fakkeloptocht" "Jaime CARRASQUILLA", "Freddy ZEDAN", "Karen" and myself walked to "Carlos & Charlies". According to me "Koen GOTTENBOS" was also with us when we were walking to Carlos & Charlies. Inside Carlos & Charlies Karen and I walked upstairs and started french kissing. After that Karen and me walked outside and walked to the "Pier" due east of Carlos & Charlies. When we were standing on the "Pier" I asked Karen if she could give me a "blow-job". Karen agreed to this and started sucking my penis. I do not remember if I was standing upright or if I was lying down on the ground when Karen gave me the blow-job. I have to state that I wanted to have sexual relations with Karen but that I did not have a condom on me at that precise moment. After Karen had given me the blow-job Freddy ZEDAN called me on my mobile phone. Freddy told me that they were going to go home and asked me how I would get home. According to me Freddy also told me that he was at that moment in time sitting in the car of "Chato". The name of "Chato" is "Leonardo" but I do not know his last name. According to me Chato is from Mexico. Freddy, Karen and me got a ride from Chato. Chato and Freddy were in the front and Karen and me got into the back. When Karen and me were sitting in the back I think I asked whether I had a sexual relation with her, I answer you the following. I know the girl named "Karen". I do not know Karen's last name. I had Karen give me another blow-job, something that she did then do. Chato saw then that Karen was giving me head in his pick-up. Chato drives a green 4-door pick-up of the Ford make when he brought us three, meaning Freddy, Karen and myself a ride to my house. I do not know the license plate of Chato's pick-up. When we arrived at my appartment the 4 of us went inside the appartment. Chato had a hip flask containing whiskey. Chato and Karen drank from the contents. I have to say that I am not sure any more if "Freddy ZEDAN" or "Fernando VIANA" was in the appartment with us. Karen and I went to lie down on the sofa-bed and had put a blanket over us. Karen and I started fondling and having "foreplay". Chato tried to pull the blanket off of us to see what we were doing. Chato asked me to ask Karen if he and I could have sexual relations with Karen together. On Chato's request I asked Karen if she was willing to have sex with me and Chato together. Karen told me that she did not want to have sex with me and Chato. After that Chato and Freddy left. I do not know where Chato and Freddy went to. Karen and I were on the sofa-bed. We started kissing and I fingered Karen. After that I had taken my clothes off. Karen then took off her clothes. At that point I was told by Karen to put on a condom. I went to my drawer and took out a condom and put it on. After that we had sex with each other. I do not know if Karen bled when I had sex with her. At no time did Karen say to me that she did not want to have sex with me. I can also not tell you anymore what the condition was of Karen when I had sex with her in my appartment. She had been drinking but I also had been drinking. We had also both drank from Chato's hip-flask. I don't remember right know what kind of alcoholic drink was in that hip-flask. After Karen and me had sex I went to the bathroom and threw the condom into the toilet. I have no recollection of what happened after that.
I only had sex with Karen three times. The first time I had sex with Karen was on the beach close to the "Havana Niteclub". I do not remember the date, but it was during a "Moonlite Party". On the day Karen and me had sex the first time we had both had alcoholic drinks but we were not drunk.
About two months ago I had sex with Karen for the last time. This happened in my appartement and on that day Karen stayed the night with me. According to me I had told my mother that Karen would be staying for the night.
To your question whether or not I had sex with a girl named "Stephania", I answer you that I have not.
To your question whether I know the girl named "Stephany BOEKHOUWER", I answer you the following. This year, I don't remember the exact date, Freddy, Jaime and me went to a "Houseparty" in Oranjestad. We drove in Jaime's car to the houseparty. The car of Jaime is famous because we had experienced a lot of things in Jaime's car. Jaime has a 4-door green "Honda". On that day Freddy had sex with Stephany BOEKHOUWER on the backseat of Jaime's car. I gave Freddy a condom before he had sex with Stephany. While Freddy was having sex with Stephany on the backseat, Jaime and myself stood down at the trunk of the car and drank alcoholic beverages.
To your question whether I had a relationship with a girl name "Rika", I answer you the following. Rika was my girlfriend but we did not have a sexual relationship with each other. We may have done some french kissing but I did not have sexual relations with her because she is 12 years old. Rika's parents found out about our relationship and that is why we stopped the relationship. I do not know Rika's last name.
This is my statement in accordance with the truth".
J.A.P. van der SLOOT
After the suspect J.A.P. van der SLOOT had read the statement he had given, he stated he would persist in it and signed the statement.
The reporting officers,
JACOBS CROES
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
I have heard the Madeline case is somewhat similar to this case. You are right though about this case..I can tell you about 5 different people at the minumum that came forward and said they knew where natalee was buried. One guy even said he helped bury her. There is a lot I want to tell you about this but I will wait for another day. So much speculation,some think the mob is involved because of Michael Posner who owns the HI and Excaliber casino,others think she was filmed in sex films,some think she was procured for someone rich and powerful or the elders at the lions den,some think it was just Joran and some think it was joran and his friends the pimps and some even think it was Paul Van Der Sloot,Some think it was a party at Lorenzo's and he did it..quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:29 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[..]
They did make alot of statements that did not add up.
I heard many different stories about what happend to Natalee. Especially in the beginning, and i think that was one of the reasons why it caught the attention of so many people.
But when I compare this to some other missing person: Madeline, I also see the media "falsely" claming that the parents where involved while weeks later they all of a sudden are not.
So what really is the deal here.
Do i really think they brought the body back to the house, and that is the reason why people claim they have seen the 2 brothers (Satish & Deepak) clean the car?
No, they probably used drugs in the car or did some shit before Natalee got missing and they where scared the police would find out once they started looking for Natalee's DNA in the car.
Joran said himself he didn't know these 2 guys that long, and he said they weren't the brightest 2 on Aruba.
But then again, the first time they got arrested they blamed the murder of Natalee on Joran, and told the police that Joran had a sick mind.
It's a huge amount of info to digest and I dont know anyone that knows for sure what exactly happened without a doubt.Natalee had to be at the Van Der Sloots..Why would they continue to refuse to let people search that house? Why would the Judge block the search the day of the search? Why wasn't it searched until two years later? Why would the Aruban Officials all point fingers at each other and be caught in that lie? I think Peter R exposed that pretty good.
The kalpoes looked into long term storage for that car and were seen hosing it down and cleaning it franticly in the dark corner in a strange area of that house at a odd time like 3am when she dissapeared. Did you see the pictures I collected of that car? It had 5 spoke rims and red tail lights in the police compound at the Noord Station. But on June 9th when it was impounded it had 6 spoke rims and later in police custody it had white tail lights. There are other differences but I am not a car expert..The Prime Minister of Aruba said on National TV there was blood in that car,So did The Minister of Justice,The FBI and a few Aruban cops. When Beth Holloway first went to the Police station on July 31st ealy in the AM that car was at the Bubali police station parked there..She is convinced of that and wrote about it in her book.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Thank you Observer, the last couple of hours I,ve been reading on your site, stunning!
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Halloquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:57 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Thank you for your answer.
Didnt Natalees friend say she was drunk, because they had been drinking all day. Didnt Joran say she was drunk? Didnt others say she was drunk? Plus, she drank 75% Bacardi. Tell me, when someone is already wasted, why the fuck would you use GHB?
And now about the boycot and all;
Hmm, hmm. We sent like F16s and half an army to Aruba, didnt we? + Peter r de Vries who has been working on the case + police arresting whoever had to be arrested etc etc
And THEN get a lot of bullshit from America? How terrible we are and what not. And you approve and even agree with that? Or did you just approve the boycot of Aruba, hmm?
It's like everything Beth says or does is been justified because she lost her kid. And that is total bullcrap. We have done a lot to help this case, and I dont need a patriot to fuck us over.
You dont go on international tv saying "look what they did to a/our country" when you just found out your daughter, who you love and has been lost for 3 years, might have been thrown in the ocean ALIVE. With sharks.
Verkeerde keelgat.
Who said Natalee was drunk? I have only seen Joran say that! Then he said she wasn't drunk when he realized he could get into more trouble because she couldn't consent to sex. They slept most of the day and at the end of the night her friends thought she looked strange and her eyes were very heavy before closing time. She partied and drank on that trip for sure but she was not drunk that night,none of her friends said that at all. You would have to ask Joran about GHB..Did you read Joran's PV and the other PV'S..Why would Natalee be in and out of conscioussness? Did you know other Aruban girls came forwars and said the exact same thing happened to them? Did you see what I posted about witnesses that saw her being escorted out of the bar with deepak holding on to her arm 10 minutes after everyne rushed out of the bar? Just last week Jossy Mansur said he talked to a bartender who saw two of the suspects almost drag her out of the bar because she could barely walk. I don't make this stuff up it's all documented..Did you see there friend Freddy was arrested for suspicion of having sex with a unconscious person and taking pictures of a very young teen? This was the same thime K2 were arrested the 2nd time in 2005.I don't have anything against the dutch and I actually love the people. I work with them,have dutch friends and they have been very good to me. I like the Aruban people,I have met a few and I have nothing at all against the good people of Aruba. It is all about that Aruban Govt and I think they are evil The F16's? What were they supposed to do? Do you think infered would show a decomposed body when it gives off no heat? Peter De Vries I love and admire a great deal,like I stated before he has done more than anyone to help this case. As far as a boycott for Aruba,Yes I support it..Do you have any idea the hell they have put Natalee and her Family through? I really dont think anyone in Holland knows about it and especially on this board..You would be stunned if you learned what they did to them!!!!!. As far as Hans Mos goes,I am not sure just yet what the hell is going on..He has this major evidence that turns out to be nothing. When the parents met him he would not answer any questions and told them the Family,The Media and a Dea agent hurt this case..He wasn't talking about the Van Der Sloot family but the Holloways!! Believe me I would have gone berzerk is that was my daughter..You would have done the same I am sure..I think Beth and Dave are some of the most kind,gentle and polite people on the face of this earth..Very very rare people and I admire how nice and sweet they have been..Sometimes I think they have been too nice!!
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Je kunt 't ook in de bieb lenenquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:45 schreef Qwea het volgende:
[..]
I've read parts of beth's book. It was something with "the love/hope of a mother" or something. There's a transcript on the oprah winfrey website. Joran's book I didn't read. I don't want to buy it, because he gets money for it
Bij mijn bieb zijn beide boeken uitgeleend, en eerlijk gezegd heb ik toch niet zo'n interesse in 't lezen van nog meer leugens
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
Hello Yvonnequote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:22 schreef yvonne het volgende:
Thank you Observer, the last couple of hours I,ve been reading on your site, stunning!
You have been reading at SM? It is not not the setup I would like as I think it is tough to find information if you don't know where to look..But thank you! I hope you can use it to find info that you are looking for..There are some very knowledgeable and dedicated people that truly love Natalee and her Family there. Many thousands of hours and over two years of research has been conducted and there is very little that is on the net that the monkeys don't know about..LOL!I am tired,but I will be back..I truly sense that the Aruban people are starting to stand up and are tired of what the Van Der Sloots have done. Did you see that Video I posted where the DJ Spoke of Lorenzo Van Rijn? I know the Dutch are kind of split about what happened to Natalee..I really hope we can work together and get this solved!! This has gone on long enough!! I am so happy that the dutch saw this side of Joran that we have known about for a very long time! If people here think I am a ignorant about the Dutch you are very wrong..I know the people very well and I have tremendous faith in the dutch people.
[ Bericht 34% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 10:45:41 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Ik denk ook inderdaad dat de woorden van Joran niet zoveel waard zijnquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:31 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
[..]
Je kunt 't ook in de bieb lenen
JoOlz: "So much good shit in senesta's head, I call it Ideahhrea."
I didnt accuse you of hating Dutch or Aruban peoplequote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:26 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Hallo
I don't have anything against the dutch and I actually love the people. I work with them,have dutch friends and they have been very good to me. I like the Aruban people,I have met a few and I have nothing at all against the good people of Aruba. It is all about that Aruban Govt and I think they are evil The F16's? What were they supposed to do? Do you think infered would show a decomposed body when it gives off no heat? Peter De Vries I love and admire a great deal,like I stated before he has done more than anyone to help this case. As far as a boycott for Aruba,Yes I support it..Do you have any idea the hell they have put Natalee and her Family through? I really dont think anyone in Holland knows about it and especially on this board..You would be stunned if you learned what they did to them!!!!!. As far as Hans Mos goes,I am not sure just yet what the hell is going on..He has this major evidence that turns out to be nothing. When the parents met him he would not answer any questions and told them the Family,The Media and a Dea agent hurt this case..He wasn't talking about the Van Der Sloot family but the Holloways!! Believe me I would have gone berzerk is that was my daughter..You would have done the same I am sure..I think Beth and Dave are some of the most kind,gentle and polite people on the face of this earth..Very very rare people and I admire how nice and sweet they have been..Sometimes I think they have been too nice!!
Yeah, sure I wouldnt be too happy if my daughter disappeard, but I wouldnt say all the things that Beth has said. They way she has been talking, from what I have seen, makes everyone responsible for Natalee disappearing. Just blah blah blah.
And hell, I dont know what F16s with infrared are supposed to do, hmm hmm. Apparently there was a big enough chance to find something with it, otherwise they wouldnt have wasted that there. Its neither Aruba or The Netherlands fault that that didnt work. Point is they tried, did their best. And they only get shit in return. Till Peter comes along! Peter, with his little tape. His little tape full of thigns the entire world already knows, and probably wont be of any use in court. Yet he gets a fucking throne.
And I dont know about the government being corrupt. You dont know that either. You cant tell for sure, 100%, that Aruba is sabotising this case. America can't say that either. Yet you tell everyone to boycot a country that lives off of tourists, American tourists. How can you approve of that? That is lots of innocent people getting hit. And did it work? Noooooo.
Do you know Beth? In personal.
Im not trying to be a bitch or something. I do appreciate your work, but there are just some things eh. I can´t agree with all you say.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Oh, I happen to love the word fuck. I´ve already tried to just throw the word out of my vocabulary, but sometimes it just slips through
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
You picked the right forum to post at..LMAO!!quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:44 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
Oh, I happen to love the word fuck. I´ve already tried to just throw the word out of my vocabulary, but sometimes it just slips through
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
you look like a bitch ha ha
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Ooooooooow yes we do, history proven...quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:42 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
And I dont know about the government being corrupt. You dont know that either.
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
I mean about this particular case. You cant say for a fact that theyre doing this and that.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:49 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Ooooooooow yes we do, history proven...
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
We don't have to agree on everythingquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:42 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
I didnt accuse you of hating Dutch or Aruban people
Yeah, sure I wouldnt be too happy if my daughter disappeard, but I wouldnt say all the things that Beth has said. They way she has been talking, from what I have seen, makes everyone responsible for Natalee disappearing. Just blah blah blah.
And hell, I dont know what F16s with infrared are supposed to do, hmm hmm. Apparently there was a big enough chance to find something with it, otherwise they wouldnt have wasted that there. Its neither Aruba or The Netherlands fault that that didnt work. Point is they tried, did their best. And they only get shit in return. Till Peter comes along! Peter, with his little tape. His little tape full of thigns the entire world already knows, and probably wont be of any use in court. Yet he gets a fucking throne.
And I dont know about the government being corrupt. You dont know that either. You cant tell for sure, 100%, that Aruba is sabotising this case. America can't say that either. Yet you tell everyone to boycot a country that lives off of tourists, American tourists. How can you approve of that? That is lots of innocent people getting hit. And did it work? Noooooo.
Do you know Beth? In personal.
Im not trying to be a bitch or something. I do appreciate your work, but there are just some things eh. I can´t agree with all you say.
I really don't see what Beth did and why she is so hated..She is such a sweet and caring lady..You should see things that have been done to her!! You would be shocked!! Imagine being threatened and told you would chopped up and used as fish food if you returned to Aruba! Imagine being lied about,slandered and attacked for 2.5 years..Trust me that Govt spent millions on there disinformation campaign and attack on her family. I am happy for Peter,at least he made the effort!! I don't think he is done quite yet and I believe he is on a mission..I do know for sure that Govt is corrupt and sabotaged this case! They are really evil..Even the Aruban people I spoke to privately agree with me!! We have only heard how great things are in Aruba and how booked there hotel rooms are and that the boycott hasn't worked at all..I think they are lucky it hasn't been organized yet and turned into a active boycott..That poor family just wants there daughter,she deserves a proper burial back home.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Wow. From the dissepearance of a young girl to a potential Government-wide cover up.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:49 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Ooooooooow yes we do, history proven...
Looks like the script from 24, season 8!
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door #ANONIEM op 06-02-2008 11:03:11 ]
You keep saying you do know, you do have proof, you do know this and that for a fact, but I havent seen any real proof yetquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:58 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
We don't have to agree on everything
I am happy for Peter,at least he made the effort!! I don't think he is done quite yet and I believe he is on a mission..I do know for sure that Govt is corrupt and sabotaged this case! They are really evil..Even the Aruban people I spoke to privately agree with me!! We have only heard how great things are in Aruba and how booked there hotel rooms are and that the boycott hasn't worked at all..I think they are lucky it hasn't been organized yet and turned into a active boycott..That poor family just wants there daughter,she deserves a proper burial back home.
And about Peter, I really hope this wasnt all hes got. I really hope hes on this pedestal for a damn good reason.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
What do you want proof of? Did you see what I posted on the Corruption and Collusion on the Aruban Govt? I can name 3 ministers that were caught Red Handed with drugs,rape and whoring women. Plus about 24 other things like letting a convicted mobster own and operate the hotel and casino where Natalee dissapeared from. If you are looking to defend that Aruban Govt you will not win..They are as corrupt and evil as they come.They most definetly covered up Natalees murder! Pick one subject and I will do my best to prove it,All of these subjects have been talked about and examined extensively at SM and should be very easy to provide facts.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:18 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
You keep saying you do know, you do have proof, you do know this and that for a fact, but I havent seen any real proof yet
And about Peter, I really hope this wasnt all hes got. I really hope hes on this pedestal for a damn good reason.
I don't think that is all he has at all..He was pretty quiet after what he showed in his first show..He did very well there and has provided facts about some of the things you are asking about,like the search of that house,the admissions of Jorans lawyer and a few other things. I hope he keeps going.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Ik ben 18+ heb geen biebpas, en als 18+ zijnde moet je dokken. No thnxquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:31 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
[..]
Je kunt 't ook in de bieb lenen
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
It makes me think about "AAAAAAAAAAAAAh George Bush did 9/11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:59 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
Wow. From the dissepearance of a young girl to a potential Government-wide cover up.
Looks like the script from 24, season 8!
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Oyoyoy, Im not trying to defend or protect anything or anyone. Certainly not Aruba cuz they dont mean shit to mequote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:35 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
What do you want proof of? Did you see what I posted on the Corruption and Collusion on the Aruban Govt? I can name 3 ministers that were caught Red Handed with drugs,rape and whoring women. Plus about 24 other things like letting a convicted mobster own and operate the hotel and casino where Natalee dissapeared from. If you are looking to defend that Aruban Govt you will not win..They are as corrupt and evil as they come.They most definetly covered up Natalees murder! Pick one subject and I will do my best to prove it,All of these subjects have been talked about and examined extensively at SM and should be very easy to provide facts.
I don't think that is all he has at all..He was pretty quiet after what he showed in his first show..He did very well there and has provided facts about some of the things you are asking about,like the search of that house,the admissions of Jorans lawyer and a few other things. I hope he keeps going.
I just like facts
Thanks
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Dat nieuwe systeem is echt retarded. Ik jat mn moeders pasje gewoonquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:36 schreef Qwea het volgende:
[..]
Ik ben 18+ heb geen biebpas, en als 18+ zijnde moet je dokken. No thnx
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Joran is goin to talk with tha polizzzze. (Tomorrow)
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Niemand bij ons is lid van die kloten biebquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:41 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Dat nieuwe systeem is echt retarded. Ik jat mn moeders pasje gewoon
Staat er geen versie online?
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Better not say that, not here in Holland, it can make us a bitquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:58 schreef observer777 het volgende:
She is such a sweet and caring lady..
Say she 's angree, she want 's to know what the hell has happend to her daughter. And she won 't give up untill she know 's.
But keep the sweet and caring part away from us
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door deedeetee op 06-02-2008 11:57:19 ]
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
sue me, but isn't that normal? What if you had a daughter and she went missing? Wouldn't you like to know what happend with her? Whatever it takes? I fucking know I would.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:50 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
[..]
Better not say that, not her in Holland, it can make us a bit
Say she 's angree, she want 's to know what the hell has happend to her daughter. And she won 't give up untill she know 's.
But keep the sweet and caring part away from us
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Hi Observer... Did you know that last year Mr. De Vries solved the JFK murder? He's receiving a lot of criticism right now, again, or still, for making teasers that promise the world followed by shows that just leave more questions much of the time and interviewing people in a horrible way, Beth is the latest example of that.. He's also talked about going into politics himself and after this show the chance of him doing so next elections just got a bit bigger. He might even join the PVV party of Mr. Geert Wilders who also has some followers on this forum. When I say a lot of criticism, that's very relative btw.quote:Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 23:29 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Personally I love Mr.De Vries and was amazed at his first show..I think he did a great Job in this latest Investigation but I believe Joran was not telling the truth about many things. I am happy,because this brought Natalee's case to attention world wide and people got to hear the real Joran. I hope people take interest and demand answers,especially in Aruba. Much of what is on TV for us we knew long ago and have so many questions that remained to be answered..That is what we try to do everyday at SM is piece together this mystery. I am convinced all the answers are in the beginning in June 2005.
People here have definitely taken an interest. About half the population watched his show. An absolute record, I believe only matched by a few soccer games. Many of those people now seem convinced that what Joran said is essentially true. Your website paints a very different picture. It will be very interesting to see what will happen next, although I do think it's quite predictable.
As to cover ups; you'll probably find most Dutch people do believe that 9/11 was a total cover up while at the same time finding it very hard to believe our own government could be in any way guilty of anything, even though we've been dealing with scandal after scandal over the years with very few people really being punished. Us Dutchies like to feel very superior and like to accuse Americans of feeling superior. I haven't found any of Dr. Phil's statements yet, but I believe quite a few of us Dutchies are pretty pissed over them. The reason I'm going into all of this is maybe to try to explain a few of the reactions here.
Also, after reading a bit of SM I guess what a lot of Dutchies don't realize is that Natalee might be just one in a whole string of victims over several or maybe even many years. I think that's being suggested anyway, I haven't read enough on your site yet. If that's true, I wonder why Peter R. De Vries hasn't mentioned any of that. His show on Dutch TV was very different from the one on ABC. You had voiceovers which made it very difficult to get a good feel of Joran's emotions. We had a hard time doing that too, he really doesn't seem to have any, or empathy, which is why some of us now think he's a sociopath. But we've only seen a bit of footage, I would really like to see more.
Anyway, I don't want to write a book about it I think, have a nice day!
Speak for yourself.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:50 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
[..]
Better not say that, not her in Holland, it can make us a bit
Say she 's angree, she want 's to know what the hell has happend to her daughter. And she won 't give up untill she know 's.
But keep the sweet and caring part away from us
I for one won't ever, EVER go through what this mother is going through for the past 3 years.
You can't judge her because of what you've seen of her on television or in newspapers.
And also don't forget, Beth is just a product of American upbringing and standards.
No swearing, all girls are virgins, and so on and so on.
You can't judge her for that...
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
I most certainly would want to know. I just meant to say that were not good at listening to * sweet and caring * we have more respect for * angry and not giving up *quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:55 schreef Qwea het volgende:
[..]
sue me, but isn't that normal? What if you had a daughter and she went missing? Wouldn't you like to know what happend with her? Whatever it takes? I fucking know I would.
It 's an answer to the question why we * hate * the sweet and caring mother. We don't hate her, we just don't like tears and all that stuff.
Of course she 'll do anything to find out what happend..... And I don't blame her for it.
I tried to explain to Observer that he 's using the wrong words to discribe her. I didn't mean any offend
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
Ehhh waarom staan jullie nu op je achterste benen ? Ik leg alleen maar uit dat sentimenteel gedoe hier in Nederland meestal niet zo goed aan slaat. Als hij de moeder wat meer populair wil maken moet hij dat in andere bewoordingen doen .
FF lezen waar op ik reageer :
FF lezen waar op ik reageer :
En niet meteen verkeerde conclusies trekken......quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:58 schreef observer777 het volgende:
She is such a sweet and caring lady..
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
Je sprak voor ons allemaal, vandaarquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:10 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
Ehhh waarom staan jullie nu op je achterste benen ? Ik leg alleen maar uit dat sentimenteel gedoe hier in Nederland meestal niet zo goed aan slaat. Als hij de moeder wat meer populair wil maken moet hij dat in andere bewoordingen doen .
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Eensch.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:10 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
Ehhh waarom staan jullie nu op je achterste benen ? Ik leg alleen maar uit dat sentimenteel gedoe hier in Nederland meestal niet zo goed aan slaat. Als hij de moeder wat meer populair wil maken moet hij dat in andere bewoordingen doen .
Ga jij dan niet over je nek van de sentimentele manier waarop aan de andere kant van de oceaan vaak word gesproken dan ??quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:11 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Je sprak voor ons allemaal, vandaar
Dat is dáár normaal maar hier niet dacht ik
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
Ik herinner me juist topics dat ze te weinig zou janken.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:10 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
Ehhh waarom staan jullie nu op je achterste benen ? Ik leg alleen maar uit dat sentimenteel gedoe hier in Nederland meestal niet zo goed aan slaat. Als hij de moeder wat meer populair wil maken moet hij dat in andere bewoordingen doen . [afbeelding]
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Oh shushquote:
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Sorry moeders. Maar ik ben het er gewoon mee eens. Op zo`n manier praten over mevrouw Holloway is misschien acceptabel in Amerika, hier in Nederland krijgen veel mensen kotsneigingen. Dat helpt haar zaak niet echt.quote:
Ach ja, maar zo zijn ze opgevoed, ze weten niet beter en doen niet anders, hun manier van doen.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:13 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
[..]
Ga jij dan niet over je nek van de sentimentele manier waarop aan de andere kant van de oceaan vaak word gesproken dan ??
Dat is dáár normaal maar hier niet dacht ik
Zo heeft ieder land wel wat toch?
Aan de andere kant, hij post nu hier en zal dus zijn wijze van uitdrukken ook hier gebruiken
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Denk nou eens na over wat je nu zegt?quote:
Dat is toch ridicuul en onjuist?
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
I think that it's the "Natalee would neeeeeeever do that. No way. Oh gosh no! Drugs? Dont be silly. Oh gosh! Alcohol? Nooooooooo gooooosh no. My sweet ltitle innocent girl boohoo blame the terrible Aruba and the terrible Netherlands but my daughter is just an innocent little girl." That + the boycotting + "Look what they did to a/our country" is what gets some Dutchies going.
Natalee was not an innocent little girl. And no, Im not saying this justifies her death, all Im saying is that mother needs to quit the -all American innocent virgin till 30- crap
Natalee was not an innocent little girl. And no, Im not saying this justifies her death, all Im saying is that mother needs to quit the -all American innocent virgin till 30- crap
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Ik heb daar niet bepaald mijn waardering voor uitgesproken maar gepost dat ze duidelijk in shock was.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:14 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Ik herinner me juist topics dat ze te weinig zou janken.
Het is wmb gewoon een moeder die wil weten wat er met haar kind is gebeurt en het maakt mij verder niks uit wat voor mens ze is. Dat heeft er gewoon helemaal niks mee te maken. En het gaat ons ook niks aan.
Voor mij is het juiste argument dat haar dochter wég is, ze hoeft van mij niet te huilen, of lief en aardig te zijn om in haar recht te staan om de onderste steen boven te halen en voor mijn part het hele eiland overhoop te halen om er achter te komen waar haar dochter IS !
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
Dat is toch gewoon de praktijk? Ongeacht mijn mening erover?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:19 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Denk nou eens na over wat je nu zegt?
Dat is toch ridicuul en onjuist?
Dan is die praktijk, voor sommige mensen, toch onjuist en ridicuul?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:20 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
Dat is toch gewoon de praktijk? Ongeacht mijn mening erover?
Mijn dochter is vermist, ik kom niet "goed"over op tv/krant, dús word ik medeveroordeeld...
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Je snapt het niet. Door het cultuurverschil van Amerika <> Nederland krijg je dus wrijvingen en irritatie over het gedrag van de moeder. In Amerika zijn bepaalde uitlatingen hartstikke normaal terwijl we daar in Nederland zowat van moeten kotsen.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:21 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Dan is die praktijk, voor sommige mensen, toch onjuist en ridicuul?
Mijn dochter is vermist, ik kom niet "goed"over op tv/krant, dús word ik medeveroordeeld...
Dat heeft niks te maken met veroordelen, maar te maken met cultuurverschillen.
Jij snapt 'm Scorpiequote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:24 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
Je snapt het niet. Door het cultuurverschil van Amerika <> Nederland krijg je dus wrijvingen en irritatie over het gedrag van de moeder. In Amerika zijn bepaalde uitlatingen hartstikke normaal terwijl we daar in Nederland zowat van moeten kotsen.
Dat heeft niks te maken met veroordelen, maar te maken met cultuurverschillen.
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
True, most definitely true. Thinking that your daughter didn't do drugs, fine. But swear that she NEVER EVER EVER EVER could have done drugs, is absurd.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:19 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
I think that it's the "Natalee would neeeeeeever do that. No way. Oh gosh no! Drugs? Dont be silly. Oh gosh! Alcohol? Nooooooooo gooooosh no. My sweet ltitle innocent girl boohoo blame the terrible Aruba and the terrible Netherlands but my daughter is just an innocent little girl." That + the boycotting + "Look what they did to a/our country" is what gets some Dutchies going.
Natalee was not an innocent little girl. And no, Im not saying this justifies her death, all Im saying is that mother needs to quit the -all American innocent virgin till 30- crap
But thats just my humble opinion
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
And now ontopic, I think the biggest problem is that a lot of times it's like this
- Joran said..
Joran is a liar!
- Yeah but..
No!
Im sure Joran is a liar, but he didnt lie about everything. So, lets see, if we take for example the drinking.
Joran and co say she had been drinking a loooooot
American friends say she had like almost nothing.
This could be a very crucial point. If Natalee was drunk like a fuck and might have taken coke or whatever, they only thing they can do then is arrest Joran for disposing the body.
Buuuut, was Natalee really not drunk, and a healthy 18?yo woman, then if we the stick to the shaking, theres a big chance Joran gave her something.
So, thats why in my opinion, we shouldnt be to easy with "Dont matter, hes just a liar"
Catch my drift, anyone?
- Joran said..
Joran is a liar!
- Yeah but..
No!
Im sure Joran is a liar, but he didnt lie about everything. So, lets see, if we take for example the drinking.
Joran and co say she had been drinking a loooooot
American friends say she had like almost nothing.
This could be a very crucial point. If Natalee was drunk like a fuck and might have taken coke or whatever, they only thing they can do then is arrest Joran for disposing the body.
Buuuut, was Natalee really not drunk, and a healthy 18?yo woman, then if we the stick to the shaking, theres a big chance Joran gave her something.
So, thats why in my opinion, we shouldnt be to easy with "Dont matter, hes just a liar"
Catch my drift, anyone?
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
voor de nieuwkomers hier begint dit onderwerp
In the rebound deel 1 > Natalee Holloway (in the rebound).
dit is deel 2 en deel 3 komt er aan denk ik
In the rebound deel 1 > Natalee Holloway (in the rebound).
dit is deel 2 en deel 3 komt er aan denk ik
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Observer, you keep saying things like this. The things you say are all facts, but this sounds like no fact to me and I doubt about a lot more of your facts.quote:Just last week Jossy Mansur said he talked to a bartender who saw two of the suspects almost drag her out of the bar because she could barely walk. I don't make this stuff up it's all documented
Last week somebody said he talked to somebody who said something. I don't make things up, it's documented!
Op dinsdag 17 april 2007 14:13 schreef Gia het volgende over haar kinderen:
al zitten die op het vmbo, ze denken in ieder geval logischer dan goofup.
al zitten die op het vmbo, ze denken in ieder geval logischer dan goofup.
Nope, not true. Because Joran didn't know if natalee was dead when he dropped her off in the big ocean. If she was alive, it is murder. Or manslaughter. I go for murderquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:28 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
And now ontopic, I think the biggest problem is that a lot of times it's like this
- Joran said..
Joran is a liar!
- Yeah but..
No!
Im sure Joran is a liar, but he didnt lie about everything. So, lets see, if we take for example the drinking.
Joran and co say she had been drinking a loooooot
American friends say she had like almost nothing.
This could be a very crucial point. If Natalee was drunk like a fuck and might have taken coke or whatever, they only thing they can do then is arrest Joran for disposing the body.
I think Joran has a disease. Why would anyone lie so much about so many things
What's it called in dutch? "pseudologia fantastica"
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Deel 1 staat gewoon op pagina 1 hoor.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:30 schreef johan555 het volgende:
voor de nieuwkomers hier begint dit onderwerp
In the rebound deel 1 > Natalee Holloway (in the rebound).
dit is deel 2 en deel 3 komt er aan denk ik [afbeelding]
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
We were just now discussing the Beth-interview, the last segment of the Dutch show last sunday...
Some people have issues with some of the stuff Beth says, others like myself have issues with the way Mr. De Vries conducted this "interview" and the way it was edited.
Some people have issues with some of the stuff Beth says, others like myself have issues with the way Mr. De Vries conducted this "interview" and the way it was edited.
Thats not my point. Im not saying either happened, Im saying either could have happened. And in order to get a grip on the casequote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:31 schreef Qwea het volgende:
[..]
Nope, not true. Because Joran didn't know if natalee was alive when he dropped her off in the big ocean. If she was alive, it is murder. Or manslaughter. I go for murder [afbeelding]
I think Joran has a disease. Why would anyone lie so much about so many things [afbeelding] What's it called in dutch? "pseudologia fantastica"
we shouldnt dismiss everyhing Joran is saying as lies ang ignore it.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
welke pagina 1 ?
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Hehehhe "Ive got a big breakthrough Beth! But Im not telling you for another week"quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:32 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
We were just now discussing the Beth-interview, the last segment of the Dutch show last sunday...
Some people have issues with some of the stuff Beth says, others like myself have issues with the way Mr. De Vries conducted this "interview" and the way it was edited.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) II Klik.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:35 schreef johan555 het volgende:
welke pagina 1 ?
Maar misschien kan Yvonne hem even in de OP zetten?
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
yvonne fok bedoel je
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Let op wat hij zegt:quote:Op maandag 6 juni 2005 @ 15:05 schreef Madhoax het volgende:
[..]
Ik loop op dit moment stage in Aruba en ze heeft géén sex gehad met die lui, die 3 eikels zijn namelijk de grootste drugsdealers op Aruba en ze hebben drugs gehaald voor haar. En ze is vrijwillig bij die dealers in de auto gestapt, dat heeft de politie terug gezien op de beveiligingsvideo van carlos 'n charlies. Dus ze is gewoon dom geweest.
Sommige kranten berichten er hier ook over dat ze naar Venezuela o.i.d. is gegaan omdat ze wat van de wereld wil zien en niet door haar ouders gevonden wil worden, in het jaarboek van school had ze geschreven: "Zouden jullie me allemaal over een jaar nog herinneren? Waarschijnlijk niet, ik wil iets van de wereld zien" (beetje vrij vertaald, ik had het gister in de krant gelezen)
Dus misschien is er wel heel veel ophef om niks, ik denk dat ze gewoon een beetje ontspoord is.....
Drugs-dealers!
Deepak, Satish en Joran waren al drugs aan het verkopen op Aruba.
Natalee is hieraan gestorven.. lijk moest weg.
Klaar.
- Maybe O.D.B My Long Distance Family -
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
het mooiste is als ze alles achter elkaar zet ja niet hier wat en daar wat
kan ze mooi vannacht doen ha ha
kan ze mooi vannacht doen ha ha
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Zo?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:36 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) II Klik.
Maar misschien kan Yvonne hem even in de OP zetten?
Kan het zo meegenomen worden naar deel3.
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Hij zegt ook dat ze gewoon de hort op is, hmm. Maar nee, we moeten alleen het drugsstukje geloven?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:47 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[..]
Let op wat hij zegt:
Drugs-dealers!
Deepak, Satish en Joran waren al drugs aan het verkopen op Aruba.
Natalee is hieraan gestorven.. lijk moest weg.
Klaar.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Yesss, dankquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:49 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Zo?
Kan het zo meegenomen worden naar deel3.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Ik ben er ook mee bezig.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:46 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
Ja, ik ben er ook mee bezig. Tis idd alleen lastig, zoveel informatie om te toetsen, en zo onoverzichtelijk.
Het laat je voorlopig niet los...Heb al een aantal posts in dit topic staan. Over mijn gedachte op basis van het kleine beetje wat ik ervan weet uit nieuws en de uitzending van zondag uiteraard. Gecombineerd met gezond verstand en je verplaatsen in joran. Gaan begrijpen hoe hij denkt.
Wat is er fokking veel (gevoelige) info op die SM site te vinden zeg. Heb er gister voor het eerst op gekeken en 2 naar ik aanneem authentieke verhoren gelezen.
Mijn engels is niet geweldig dus als ik hier in het engels ga posten is de kans groot dat ik verkeerd begrepen wordt door door jullie, en dat kunnen we in dit topic natuurlijk niet hebben.
Een poging:
My english is not very good so if I post in english, there is a good chance that I will be misunderstood and that is something we can not have in this topic.
Is het ok als ik in het nederlands post of vinden jullie het toch beter als ik het ff in het engels probeer....
Observer777: Can you read dutch good?
Ik denk dat hij meer bedoelt dat Peter Beth de 'confession' showt en haar daarna laat praten, maar telkens als ze wat zegt, doet hij er maar al te graag een schepje bovenop. Dingen die ze heus wel heeft gezien in het filmpje, maar niet nog eens nadrukkelijk herhaald hoeven worden.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:35 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Hehehhe "Ive got a big breakthrough Beth! But Im not telling you for another week"
Op dinsdag 17 april 2007 14:13 schreef Gia het volgende over haar kinderen:
al zitten die op het vmbo, ze denken in ieder geval logischer dan goofup.
al zitten die op het vmbo, ze denken in ieder geval logischer dan goofup.
Dat weet ik.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:52 schreef Goofup het volgende:
[..]
Ik denk dat hij meer bedoelt dat Peter Beth de 'confession' showt en haar daarna laat praten, maar telkens als ze wat zegt, doet hij er maar al te graag een schepje bovenop. Dingen die ze heus wel heeft gezien in het filmpje, maar niet nog eens nadrukkelijk herhaald hoeven worden.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
ja maar deel 1 staat daar en deel 2 daar en deel 3 zo weer ergens anders
achter elkaar is het mooiste
of ben je druk met de 1e wereld oorlog 
achter elkaar is het mooiste
of ben je druk met de 1e wereld oorlog
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Ook datquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:55 schreef johan555 het volgende:
ja maar deel 1 staat daar en deel 2 daar en deel 3 zo weer ergens anders
achter elkaar is het mooiste
of ben je druk met de 1e wereld oorlog
Maar ik kan de topics niet aan elkaar plakken, ik kan alleen maar dmv linkjes terugverwijzen
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
But Joran's appartment was in fact searched, wasn't it? If Natalee indeed suffered a massive blow to the head, and lost a lot of blod as a result of which she died, it'll leave traces even if the forensic investigation took place 17 days after the fact. Either in Joran's appartment or in the car.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:16 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Well there probably would have been forensic evidence if they would have searched the house. Remember that house was never searched until like april 2007..Two years too late.Did you see Peter De Vries first program? Well there is alot more to why they restricted the search of that house the day of the search. They only searched Joran's little Apt and the two cars and that was 17 days after Natalee vanished!! There was a article in Papamiento from that Judge last month stating why he restricted the search. He blamed the Prosecuters office and commissioner Dompig and they blame him. They are caught red handed in this lie! Can anyone translate Papi here? He said the Prosecuters office never asked to search anything more,while Dompig says they were denied searching that house. The Judge says Dompig obstructed justice and asked for Van Der Sloots privacy and not to search the house
This theory: Natalee died as a result of a massive blow to the head, either at Joran's appartement or in the car of the Deepak brothers, is a very specific theory; it'll therefore need specific and detailed proof. It cannot be founded on vague testimony, don't you think so? The same thing with rumors about Joran's earlier use of GHB with other girls.
If you can proof this, other then through vague testimony and rumors, you might have a case.
So his brother mentioned a dead girl in the bathtub, on his web site? At the very same night?quote:I wasnt in the sloot house and I dont know what Val was doing but look at the computer records..Val was on the x-plane site after 2am on a school night!! This kid also had on his internet site talking about a dead girl in his bathtub. He could have been the alibi on the computer or it could have been one of Jorans friends. I dont even think he was questioned until the year 2007. I think Val is a good kid and was not involved but may know something.
That's logged or something?
I´m back.
Ik ga even andere bijzondere linkjes erbij plakken, als degeen die deel 3 opent dat alles even mee wil nemen?quote:
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
ok thanks dan zoeken ze maar wat heen en weer
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Hoe walgelijk is Peter R. de Vries zélf? bedoelde ik eigenlijkquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:52 schreef Goofup het volgende:
[..]
Ik denk dat hij meer bedoelt dat Peter Beth de 'confession' showt en haar daarna laat praten, maar telkens als ze wat zegt, doet hij er maar al te graag een schepje bovenop. Dingen die ze heus wel heeft gezien in het filmpje, maar niet nog eens nadrukkelijk herhaald hoeven worden.
Nee dat zegt ie niet, maarja begrijpend lezen is lastig soms.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:50 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Hij zegt ook dat ze gewoon de hort op is, hmm. Maar nee, we moeten alleen het drugsstukje geloven?
Is leuk dat je ineens in dit topic inspringt maar je bijdrage is niet echt groot, sorry maar mag gezegd worden.
Ten eerste weten we van Joran dat hij met Patrick samen wiet wou telen, dus de kans dat hij op Aruba ook al in de drugs zat is best groot.
Daarnaast suggereerd diegene alleen dat er in de bladen staat dat ze ook weg kan zijn, that's it, dus volgende keer beter lezen.
- Maybe O.D.B My Long Distance Family -
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
Fine, de krant zegt het. En hoe weet hij dat ze geen seks hebben gehad? Was hij erbij? Omg! Breakthrough!quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:04 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[..]
Nee dat zegt ie niet, maarja begrijpend lezen is lastig soms.
!! Bel de Vries maar, Madhoax heeft het gedaan.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Observer heeft een translator ( like babelfish) nodig om NL te kunnen "lezen"quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:51 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:
[..]
Ik ben er ook mee bezig.
Heb al een aantal posts in dit topic staan. Over mijn gedachte op basis van het kleine beetje wat ik ervan weet uit nieuws en de uitzending van zondag uiteraard. Gecombineerd met gezond verstand en je verplaatsen in joran. Gaan begrijpen hoe hij denkt.
Wat is er fokking veel (gevoelige) info op die SM site te vinden zeg. Heb er gister voor het eerst op gekeken en 2 naar ik aanneem authentieke verhoren gelezen.
Mijn engels is niet geweldig dus als ik hier in het engels ga posten is de kans groot dat ik verkeerd begrepen wordt door door jullie, en dat kunnen we in dit topic natuurlijk niet hebben.
Een poging:
My english is not very good so if I post in english, there is a good chance that I will be misunderstood and that is something we can not have in this topic.
Is het ok als ik in het nederlands post of vinden jullie het toch beter als ik het ff in het engels probeer....
Observer777: Can you read dutch good?
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Ik kon een lach niet onderdrukkenquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:07 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Fine, de krant zegt het. En hoe weet hij dat ze geen seks hebben gehad? Was hij erbij? Omg! Breakthrough!
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Die scaredmonkeys ofzo ook maar? Komt veel informatie vandaanquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:00 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Ik ga even andere bijzondere linkjes erbij plakken, als degeen die deel 3 opent dat alles even mee wil nemen?
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Mja, alhoewel ik wel mn twijfels heb bij die bron. SM staat niet echt bekend als betrouwbaar voor zover ik weet.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:08 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Die scaredmonkeys ofzo ook maar? Komt veel informatie vandaan
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Ik vind bar weinig in deze zaak betrouwbaar maar a laquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:10 schreef Qwea het volgende:
[..]
Mja, alhoewel ik wel mn twijfels heb bij die bron. SM staat niet echt bekend als betrouwbaar voor zover ik weet.
Leuk, Amerika.quote:Holloway-zaak kost Aruba miljoenen
Gepost door Jonas (Jonas.Z) - Bron: De Telegraaf
Gepubliceerd: woensdag 6 februari 2008 @ 11:08
Door de zaak rondom Natalee Holloway heeft Aruba inmiddels al voor tientallen miljoenen dollars aan schade geleden. Dit meldde de Arubaanse premier Nelson Oduber dinsdagavond in het televisieprogramma Nova. Het schadebedrag kan nog oplopen, en een exact getal durfde de premier dan ook niet te noemen.
Het grootste probleem voor Aruba is dat het voor 70 procent afhankelijk is van Amerikaanse toeristen. Die laten het massaal afweten sinds het eiland zo negatief in het nieuws komt. Oduber geeft weemoedig aan: "Net nu het weer beter ging met de economie in het afgelopen jaar, krijgen we dit".
.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Dat nieuwsbericht snap ik ook niet. Ja leuk, miljoenen. Maar er is wel een meisje vermist/dood gegaanm op dat eiland. IPV te zeiken over de poen kunnen ze ook eens echt hun best doen om het op te lossen.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:18 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Ik vind bar weinig in deze zaak betrouwbaar maar a la
[..]
Leuk, Amerika.
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
ja en misschien deel 1 ,2 & 3 achter elkaar plakken in die lijst Actueel: Joran van der Sloot forum
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Dat kan niehiet. Je krijgt de links van de vorige delen in de OP van het nieuwe topic. Klaar.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:26 schreef johan555 het volgende:
ja en misschien deel 1 ,2 & 3 achter elkaar plakken in die lijst Actueel: Joran van der Sloot forum
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Is het misschien een idee omdat die online-vertalers zo slecht zijn, uit beleefdheid naar onze Engelstalige gasten, om dan Engels te praten in deze topic? Er zijn vast wel fokkers genoeg die willen vertalen voor mensen die niet zo goed Engels kunnen...
Nu ja. Er gaan elk jaar keiveel mensen dood, maar doorgaans wordt daar niet een heel land de dupe van dus ik kan het enigzins snappen. Mocht al dat conspiracygelul dan wel waar zijn, dan moeten ze inderdaad snel hun mond dicht houdenquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:21 schreef Qwea het volgende:
[..]
Dat nieuwsbericht snap ik ook niet. Ja leuk, miljoenen. Maar er is wel een meisje vermist/dood gegaanm op dat eiland. IPV te zeiken over de poen kunnen ze ook eens echt hun best doen om het op te lossen.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
hey observer how can you so rightfully say that the mother of natalee is sweet and caring blablabla no wonder she is not loved at aruba. Have you seen the DrPhil show, with the converted skeeters tape and all?? how they (philly and beth) were saying aruba should been boycotted and the netherlands is a ridiculous country. Man, really that woman is a bit of loose lunatic right now. I understand her grieving, but please......!
Ja, op het moment dat de theorie van observer777 uiteen gaat met de officiële theorie (het moment eigenlijk na verlaten van C 'n C, want dan gaan ze niet naar het strand waar N en J worden afgezet, maar gaan ze groepsgewijs verkrachten) moet er echt hard, gedetailleerd bewijs op de plank komen en dat is er, voor zover ik nu heb nagegaan, niet echt (toch?). Als er nu forensich bewijs is van bloedverlies (in het appartement van Joran of in de auto van die Deepak) en als men boven water krijgt dat Joran en zijn maten idd regelmatig na het toedienen van GHB bij meisjes gingen groepsverkrachten, dan heb je misschien aanleiding genoeg om ook de rest van de theorie serieus te nemen, inclusief een cover up door Paul van de Sloot en ism hogere machten.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:29 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Nu ja. Er gaan elk jaar keiveel mensen dood, maar doorgaans wordt daar niet een heel land de dupe van dus ik kan het enigzins snappen. Mocht al dat conspiracygelul dan wel waar zijn, dan moeten ze inderdaad snel hun mond dicht houden
Als dat echter niets oplevert dan heb je ook niet serieus aanleiding om de corruptie van de Arubaanse autoriteiten in dit verhaal te betrekken volgens mij. En ja hoor, ze zullen heus wel, naar onze maatstaven eh min of meer semi-corrupt c.q. clièntelistisch zijn ingesteld; maar of dat dan automatisch betekent dat zij hand- en spandiensten verrichten in een zaak als deze?
I´m back.
Nog wat leesvoer toegevoegd, wil iemand bij het openen van deel 3 de OP meenemen?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:27 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
[..]
Dat kan niehiet. Je krijgt de links van de vorige delen in de OP van het nieuwe topic. Klaar.
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Fine with mequote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:29 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
Is het misschien een idee omdat die online-vertalers zo slecht zijn, uit beleefdheid naar onze Engelstalige gasten, om dan Engels te praten in deze topic? Er zijn vast wel fokkers genoeg die willen vertalen voor mensen die niet zo goed Engels kunnen...
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
Hi observer777,quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:51 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Hi,I hope you are sincere and not coming from one of the anti-beths site or are you just misinformed? Where have you been reading about this case? You really need to go to another blog!!
Do I come from an Anti-Beth site? No, not that I know of, is FOK an anti-Beth site? I suppose that you are posting on the wrong forum then
But... if I'm misinformed? Maybe, could be, that's why I asked you these questions. I read the news and information about this case on several sites, US, Dutch and Aruban (in English ofcourse cause I can't speak and read papi). I'm only interested to read several aspects on this story and not only the site of de Van der Sloots or The Holloways or Twitty's for that matter.FYI make no mistake, I think Joran and his father are scum and lying mofu's. However, I don't agree completely with the actions of the family of Natalee, the Aruban boycot for example, yep, imo a BS action. In this I agree with Scorpie. Also, it didn't help the case any further.
About this Julia Renfro, you are asking me more questions then I know. But nevertheless, also the poster issue is clear to me now. Thank you.quote:Natalee did not do drugs,never run away before and was a str8 A student. What was she supposed to put on the fliers? Why has Julia Renfro deliberately lied about this murdered victim and her Family? For money or because she is friends of the sloots?Why did she tell the Family Natalee was confirmed dead and to show up at the courthouse for a press conference just a few days after NH dissapeared?
I'm not asking you about these friends of Natalee because I think the answer lies in Mountain Brook, that's what you make of it.quote:Look the kids had scheduled flights home were they supposed to miss all there flights? They didn't even realize Natalee was missing until they were all getting ready to go the airport. They were all questioned extensively by the FBI and later the ALE I beleive,the answers do not lie in Mountain Brook and if someone thinks so they are sadly mistaken.
I'm asking this because if my friend (she had 2 best friends if I recall) was lost in an foreign country, I would at least stay there for a few days and do everything in my power to help the local police to find her.If I would know where Joe Mammana is, I wouldn't ask you. And why I ask this, is because I have read that he would do everything for this search for Natalee and now I can't find any involvement of him no more. He caught my attention because he said some rough words. That's all.quote:Not sure..Do you know? I think he took interest because he helps missing and exploited people..Why do you ask? This guy just wanted to help and has nothing to do with anything.
I have no intention to ask everyone on SM about the boycott. I just wanted to know FROM YOU how the posters on SM and you yourself felt about the boycott. You as a moderator on SM should know that and well, that is clear to me now.quote:SM mostly in in full support of a boycott and ask's all americans to stop traveling until Natalee finally gets a honest Investigation and the Aruban Authorities expose the cover up and stop protecting those that murdered Natalee.. But I can't speak for everyone..You should ask them!
You lost me herequote:Didnt Jorans Lawyer a few weeks into the Investigation confess to her that Joran played a major role in Natalee's dissapearance but it was up to her to prove it? Isnt that illegal? Did KJ do anything about hearing that info?Dompig? The same guy who said JK2 were guilty as hell?Same guy who on 4 consecutive interviews told completely different things? Same guy who's brother in law help set up two innocent men and distract attention away from the real killers? Same brother in law who said he saw Natalee with cocaine?Dompig,Same guy who asked to block the search of the Van Der Sloot home and was accused by Judge Wit of obstructing justice? Isnt he related to the Kalpoes also?
I do not know the answers on all of the questions you're asking me here. If I am not mistaken, you told us here, you did research (which I truly admire) in this matter and the people on SM and can prove things right? And again, that's why I asked you aforementioned questions. Netwerk IS a Dutch program. But if these people should be in prison for lying and slandering? I rather see Joran in prison for doing exactly the same thing...quote:Thats not a dutch documenatry..Arent those people from Aruba lying about the case and friends of the Van Der Sloots? Isn't that Julia Renfro,AngelaM and Rene'e Guilen?Everything in here is a complete lie!! These people really should be in prison for lying,slandering and obstructing a murder investigation..
Yes, sometimes you do, but that doesn't matter I understand your aggravation.quote:I hope I dont come off rough
And last but not least, yes I'm honest in asking you these question, why wouldn't I be?
Thank you for your replyquote:I'm only interested to read several aspects on this story and not only the site of de Van der Sloots or The Holloways or Twitty's for that matter.
I await your evidence/prove and more information about this cover-up.
Ik ben niet labiel. Ik ben emotioneel flexibel.
de Op meenemen?????????????????????
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Op (openingspagina)
Op dinsdag 17 april 2007 14:13 schreef Gia het volgende over haar kinderen:
al zitten die op het vmbo, ze denken in ieder geval logischer dan goofup.
al zitten die op het vmbo, ze denken in ieder geval logischer dan goofup.
Observer777:
Is there one single acceptable time-/factline somewhere @ SM?
I've been reading this night a lot on SM and found many, many theories, but is there someone on SM who tries to gather all theories and facts and combine them.
It's impossible to read all info @ SM after such a long time with so many posts.
Although I still don't believe the coverup you and others at SM are describing, I would like to start somewhere to get an objective view on this case from the sight of the SM-people, if possible...
Is there one single acceptable time-/factline somewhere @ SM?
I've been reading this night a lot on SM and found many, many theories, but is there someone on SM who tries to gather all theories and facts and combine them.
It's impossible to read all info @ SM after such a long time with so many posts.
Although I still don't believe the coverup you and others at SM are describing, I would like to start somewhere to get an objective view on this case from the sight of the SM-people, if possible...
What the fuck????
Who the fuck do those people at SM think they are?
God or something?
I've been discussing all night in a fair way and get this as an answer?
Censoring people isn't a strong case...
Am I banned because I gave one more, reasonable answer after I said I posted my final posting...?
Sad thing this, which will only make me even more I'm right about the hypocritical view of people from the USA...
I'm going to have a dive this morning, into the Aruban sea...
Now I'm really pissed...quote:An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry MadMaster, you are banned from using this forum!
You said you made your last post
Who the fuck do those people at SM think they are?
God or something?
I've been discussing all night in a fair way and get this as an answer?
Censoring people isn't a strong case...
Am I banned because I gave one more, reasonable answer after I said I posted my final posting...?
Sad thing this, which will only make me even more I'm right about the hypocritical view of people from the USA...
I'm going to have a dive this morning, into the Aruban sea...
als je me een link geeft van deel 3 zet ik de op over van deel 1
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Is that because of your criticism or because you somehow misbehaved?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:21 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
What the fuck????
[..]
Now I'm really pissed...
Who the fuck do those people at SM think they are?
God or something?
I've been discussing all night in a fair way and get this as an answer?
Censoring people isn't a strong case...
Am I banned because I gave one more, reasonable answer after I said I posted my final posting...?
Sad thing this, which will only make me even more I'm right about the hypocritical view of people from the USA...
I'm going to have a dive this morning, into the Aruban sea...
I´m back.
As far as I know I didn't misbehaved myself, I gave my opinion about the coverup-conspiracy I don't believe and I was a little cynical about some opinions from some people overthere. But I ended my last posting -1 by saying that I hoped that this case will be solved and that justice will be done to those in the way they deserve it. By that, I kept every option open about who's involved and who's guilty...quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:28 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
Is that because of your criticism or because you somehow misbehaved?
But maybe Observer can tell me the exact reason why I'm banned, I'm very curious...
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2574.msg342499#msg342499quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:28 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
Is that because of your criticism or because you somehow misbehaved?
Difference in thinking, difference in culture?
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
I don't have access to SM at all anymore (probably an IP-ban), so I don't know what's been written in that particular posting.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:39 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2574.msg342499#msg342499
Difference in thinking, difference in culture?
Can someone post it overhere?
Quote
Now MadMaster, put that in your pipe & smoke it.
We smoke some other things...
Quote
This is why Aruba is suffering a boycott. Where is the support of Natalee?
On Aruba is was carnaval last sunday, that's prio #1 overhere.
The show isn't broadcasted yet on TeleAruba, the Aruban TV, but it was on ABC which is available at Aruba.
And why special support to Natalle from the Arubans?
The have respect for her, but they don't know the girl at all.
Quote
Why the people of Aruba are so afraid of their politicians and police is sad. In the US we protest and fight for our freedoms ... in Aruba ... its hardly the case. Truly sad.
I don't think people of Aruba are afraid of the gouvernment.
They try to make a living and that's more important to them than the dead of a girl.
Maybe they are selfish, but that's how it is...
Quote
MadMaster - most of us here at Scared Monkeys have been following this case and fighting for justice for Natalee since June 2005. We've seen it all. At first we believed ALE would do the right thing but time and time again we were shocked.
We've had Aruban posters outright lie about the laws, lie about events, lie about everything just to help cover up a crime. Please excuse us if we don't feel very sorry for the innocent Arubans now.
The American people owe nothing to Aruba including tourism. If people decide not to go to Aruba because of how the Natalee Holloway case was mishandled it's their own choice.
There is nothing you can do to sway our opinion now. Too much damage has already been done by the likes of Julia Renfro and her friends.
You have the Sloots and those in AHATA and ALE that helped coverup the crime to blame. Not the family of Natalee Holloway.
That's your opinion, I've got mine.
That's all I can say.
I understand that you're angry, but a boycot won't solve this case.
Quote
I've seen protests for workers rights, etc.
Maybe they could just wear tshirts stating "I support "the girl". or I stand with the family. March with a sign like they did against Beth. Show ground roots support.
That won't help the case, not even if you did that in the USA.
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Yes! Or even a little demonstration would show that the general population
did not approve of the way the government had handled the investigation.
There was a demonstration against Beth, so I know it can be done.
Once again, that won't solve the case.
Quote
Madmaster
I think what is really telling in all this is Joran was not certain that Natalee was dead. It is obvious that he did not know and for that what he has done is unforgivable to me. I am a mother with a daughter Natalee's age. In fact, she is attending the University that Natalee was to attend. Regardless of how people view Natalee, no one deserves to be tossed into the sea. The prospect of Natalee still being alive and him doing nothing to help her is completely unfathomable to me. My anger comes from a deep rage that is given to mothers from the time their children are born.
For you as being a mother I understand your feelings...
Quote
Aruba clearly allowed this to be swept under the rug. Their intentions were about tourism and that only. The millions they have spent on trying to woo us imperialistic Americans back to their island could have been spent better ways. Aruba is known for a haven of drug smuggling and other nefarious things. This is not me, it's a fact. The people of Aruba have fallen into what I call the lab rat mentality. As long as they are well fed and they don't know... everything is fine. Franky, Joran isn't Aruba's only problem right now.
Maybe you're right, but Aruba isn't like the USA with billions of dollars of debts and more to come.
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Did they die or disappear or did they get home safe?
I don't know, but those girls were potential Natalee's...
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No sympathy for the good people of Aruba. Hey, this ain't no hobby for those of us who stay with this case. Your self centered attitude is missing the point. We value our time but have decided to fight for justice.
When will you!
OK, no discussion with you...
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A revolution would be a good start. This is why we have our 2nd amendment.
You can't be serious about that... ???????
Quote
Even if all that was true ... that does not mean that anyone has a right to sexually assault them or kill them ... Are you that stupid or do you just intend to be a troll.
You are about 2 1/2 years too late to this party to be asking these stupid questions and presenting these scenarios. That's was separates Aruba from the US if you wish to know ... you are literally saying that she asked for it.
What an island. And you wonder why no one now wishes to go there as the cat is out of the bag.
Can't you read?
I never said that Natalee asked to be killed.
That's probably something you want to hear from me, but I will never do that...
Quote
Madmaster: I admire your courage to come here. I just don't think you have ANY idea of the actual facts of this case like most of us here that followed it since the very first week.
I already decided that this is really my last post.
I've made my point and it's not my job to change opinions or whatever.
I understand your angryness but that won't solve the case.
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for some reason - you're really pissing me off.
You better get that image outta yer mind real fast.
I'm real tired of your excuses for looking at our women that way!!!
I'm not lying, do you think I am?
I've discussed this with my wife too and she was also shocked by seeing those girls walking around that way.
I don't say Natalee behaved that way, I wasn't there and simply don't knowI gave it as an exampel, nothing more, nothing less. I know Dutch girls who behave the same way too...
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HEHE I was just fixin to tell MadMaster that he is/she is treading on some awfully dangerous ground right about now...
It seems I'm on a vulcano that can erupt every moment...
Quote
Mad MAster:
I already showed you Joran had a history of drugging girls and did it before Natalee arrived and he was caught. No one did anything about it,if someone would have stopped him and done something about it..Natalee would be with us today!! Joran bragged to everyone because he felt invincible and was never punished for anything,the police did nothing when these girls came to them and said they were drugged and sexually assaulted by Joran..He killed his own dog,vandalized the island,threatened people..The Police did nothing!! Sure enough the same thing probably happened to Natalee..She was not a drunking slut..The absolute direct opposite!! Goody too shoes if you will..
Let me be clear, I hate Joran just as much as you do.
If I could beat him up, I would, believe me...
Quote
MadMaster - when you have some free time, maybe you should read up a bit. Here's a good place to start.
Corruption and Collusion in the Aruban Government
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=599.0
+
Quote
MadMaster,
There are some links here at SM for you to read over that might shed some light on what we know and why we feel the way we do. There are tons of excellent info. collected over the years, including Statements of those arrested, etc.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=599.0 Corruption and Collusion in Aruban Govt.
It's alot of info and will take some time to geth through, but this might be enough to get people outraged to do something.
I hope this helps.
I will, although I maybe have been reading that before, not sure.
I've been reading a lot the last days...
Quote
Yes, You can do something to help your friends if you have the balls.
Have some T shirts printed....pink would be nice... that simply say:
"I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway." I'll bet they would sell like
hotcakes and make a fine statement. Aruban Officials would get the
message.
I'm not convinced about that, sorry...
Quote
MadMaster, I know there are some good hardworking, caring & decent people on Aruba. I have talked with a few of them.
My biggest problem is the majority of people there are only interested in Tourism.
AKA MONEY
To those types the only thing that matters is making money, not the life of an innocent girl or her suffering family.
IMO there are a lot that need to be put off the island to swim to their next Money Fest. Some of those are American Traitors who should never be allowed back into our country.
As far as I know Aruba believes in free speech & the islanders who do care & love their country stould make their voices heard & stop the Corruptness NOW!!!
Most local people aren't rich here, they just can make a living and are very bussy by doing that...
-------------------------------------------------
Sorry guys, but I can't handle all answers/postings to my adress.
That's why I stop now, not because I want to stop.
Once and for all, for whatever what personal reason everybody has, I really, really hope that this case will come to an end soon with justice to all who deserves it the way that asked for it.
Peace!!
Take care,
Madmaster (amsterdam, Holland - Oranjestad, Aruba)
Now MadMaster, put that in your pipe & smoke it.
We smoke some other things...
Quote
This is why Aruba is suffering a boycott. Where is the support of Natalee?
On Aruba is was carnaval last sunday, that's prio #1 overhere.
The show isn't broadcasted yet on TeleAruba, the Aruban TV, but it was on ABC which is available at Aruba.
And why special support to Natalle from the Arubans?
The have respect for her, but they don't know the girl at all.
Quote
Why the people of Aruba are so afraid of their politicians and police is sad. In the US we protest and fight for our freedoms ... in Aruba ... its hardly the case. Truly sad.
I don't think people of Aruba are afraid of the gouvernment.
They try to make a living and that's more important to them than the dead of a girl.
Maybe they are selfish, but that's how it is...
Quote
MadMaster - most of us here at Scared Monkeys have been following this case and fighting for justice for Natalee since June 2005. We've seen it all. At first we believed ALE would do the right thing but time and time again we were shocked.
We've had Aruban posters outright lie about the laws, lie about events, lie about everything just to help cover up a crime. Please excuse us if we don't feel very sorry for the innocent Arubans now.
The American people owe nothing to Aruba including tourism. If people decide not to go to Aruba because of how the Natalee Holloway case was mishandled it's their own choice.
There is nothing you can do to sway our opinion now. Too much damage has already been done by the likes of Julia Renfro and her friends.
You have the Sloots and those in AHATA and ALE that helped coverup the crime to blame. Not the family of Natalee Holloway.
That's your opinion, I've got mine.
That's all I can say.
I understand that you're angry, but a boycot won't solve this case.
Quote
I've seen protests for workers rights, etc.
Maybe they could just wear tshirts stating "I support "the girl". or I stand with the family. March with a sign like they did against Beth. Show ground roots support.
That won't help the case, not even if you did that in the USA.
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Yes! Or even a little demonstration would show that the general population
did not approve of the way the government had handled the investigation.
There was a demonstration against Beth, so I know it can be done.
Once again, that won't solve the case.
Quote
Madmaster
I think what is really telling in all this is Joran was not certain that Natalee was dead. It is obvious that he did not know and for that what he has done is unforgivable to me. I am a mother with a daughter Natalee's age. In fact, she is attending the University that Natalee was to attend. Regardless of how people view Natalee, no one deserves to be tossed into the sea. The prospect of Natalee still being alive and him doing nothing to help her is completely unfathomable to me. My anger comes from a deep rage that is given to mothers from the time their children are born.
For you as being a mother I understand your feelings...
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Aruba clearly allowed this to be swept under the rug. Their intentions were about tourism and that only. The millions they have spent on trying to woo us imperialistic Americans back to their island could have been spent better ways. Aruba is known for a haven of drug smuggling and other nefarious things. This is not me, it's a fact. The people of Aruba have fallen into what I call the lab rat mentality. As long as they are well fed and they don't know... everything is fine. Franky, Joran isn't Aruba's only problem right now.
Maybe you're right, but Aruba isn't like the USA with billions of dollars of debts and more to come.
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Did they die or disappear or did they get home safe?
I don't know, but those girls were potential Natalee's...
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No sympathy for the good people of Aruba. Hey, this ain't no hobby for those of us who stay with this case. Your self centered attitude is missing the point. We value our time but have decided to fight for justice.
When will you!
OK, no discussion with you...
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A revolution would be a good start. This is why we have our 2nd amendment.
You can't be serious about that... ???????
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Even if all that was true ... that does not mean that anyone has a right to sexually assault them or kill them ... Are you that stupid or do you just intend to be a troll.
You are about 2 1/2 years too late to this party to be asking these stupid questions and presenting these scenarios. That's was separates Aruba from the US if you wish to know ... you are literally saying that she asked for it.
What an island. And you wonder why no one now wishes to go there as the cat is out of the bag.
Can't you read?
I never said that Natalee asked to be killed.
That's probably something you want to hear from me, but I will never do that...
Quote
Madmaster: I admire your courage to come here. I just don't think you have ANY idea of the actual facts of this case like most of us here that followed it since the very first week.
I already decided that this is really my last post.
I've made my point and it's not my job to change opinions or whatever.
I understand your angryness but that won't solve the case.
Quote
for some reason - you're really pissing me off.
You better get that image outta yer mind real fast.
I'm real tired of your excuses for looking at our women that way!!!
I'm not lying, do you think I am?
I've discussed this with my wife too and she was also shocked by seeing those girls walking around that way.
I don't say Natalee behaved that way, I wasn't there and simply don't knowI gave it as an exampel, nothing more, nothing less. I know Dutch girls who behave the same way too...
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HEHE I was just fixin to tell MadMaster that he is/she is treading on some awfully dangerous ground right about now...
It seems I'm on a vulcano that can erupt every moment...
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Mad MAster:
I already showed you Joran had a history of drugging girls and did it before Natalee arrived and he was caught. No one did anything about it,if someone would have stopped him and done something about it..Natalee would be with us today!! Joran bragged to everyone because he felt invincible and was never punished for anything,the police did nothing when these girls came to them and said they were drugged and sexually assaulted by Joran..He killed his own dog,vandalized the island,threatened people..The Police did nothing!! Sure enough the same thing probably happened to Natalee..She was not a drunking slut..The absolute direct opposite!! Goody too shoes if you will..
Let me be clear, I hate Joran just as much as you do.
If I could beat him up, I would, believe me...
Quote
MadMaster - when you have some free time, maybe you should read up a bit. Here's a good place to start.
Corruption and Collusion in the Aruban Government
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=599.0
+
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MadMaster,
There are some links here at SM for you to read over that might shed some light on what we know and why we feel the way we do. There are tons of excellent info. collected over the years, including Statements of those arrested, etc.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=599.0 Corruption and Collusion in Aruban Govt.
It's alot of info and will take some time to geth through, but this might be enough to get people outraged to do something.
I hope this helps.
I will, although I maybe have been reading that before, not sure.
I've been reading a lot the last days...
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Yes, You can do something to help your friends if you have the balls.
Have some T shirts printed....pink would be nice... that simply say:
"I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway." I'll bet they would sell like
hotcakes and make a fine statement. Aruban Officials would get the
message.
I'm not convinced about that, sorry...
Quote
MadMaster, I know there are some good hardworking, caring & decent people on Aruba. I have talked with a few of them.
My biggest problem is the majority of people there are only interested in Tourism.
AKA MONEY
To those types the only thing that matters is making money, not the life of an innocent girl or her suffering family.
IMO there are a lot that need to be put off the island to swim to their next Money Fest. Some of those are American Traitors who should never be allowed back into our country.
As far as I know Aruba believes in free speech & the islanders who do care & love their country stould make their voices heard & stop the Corruptness NOW!!!
Most local people aren't rich here, they just can make a living and are very bussy by doing that...
-------------------------------------------------
Sorry guys, but I can't handle all answers/postings to my adress.
That's why I stop now, not because I want to stop.
Once and for all, for whatever what personal reason everybody has, I really, really hope that this case will come to an end soon with justice to all who deserves it the way that asked for it.
Peace!!
Take care,
Madmaster (amsterdam, Holland - Oranjestad, Aruba)
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
So the govt is 'corrupt and evil', therefore they - most definetly - covered up this crime? That's reasoning backwards hey; while apparantly you don't even have the evidence to proof the first stepstone in your theory.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:35 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
What do you want proof of? Did you see what I posted on the Corruption and Collusion on the Aruban Govt? I can name 3 ministers that were caught Red Handed with drugs,rape and whoring women. Plus about 24 other things like letting a convicted mobster own and operate the hotel and casino where Natalee dissapeared from. If you are looking to defend that Aruban Govt you will not win..They are as corrupt and evil as they come.They most definetly covered up Natalees murder! Pick one subject and I will do my best to prove it,All of these subjects have been talked about and examined extensively at SM and should be very easy to provide facts.
I don't think that is all he has at all..He was pretty quiet after what he showed in his first show..He did very well there and has provided facts about some of the things you are asking about,like the search of that house,the admissions of Jorans lawyer and a few other things. I hope he keeps going.
Ressemblance with the method of reasoning backwords in the Maddie McCann case comes to mind. Users of weblogs are convinced the McCanns killed their daughter and with of without help from others disposed of her body, after which a huge cover up was set in place, including even British PM Gordon F. Brown; because they dislike the McCanns, authorities in general, and Labour/liberals/leftists in specific, or found that the McCanns acted irresponsibly bij leaving their kids alone while dining in the tappasbar, something they themself would ofcourse never do.
Or am I wrong?
I´m back.
Als ik hem open doe ik dat en als iemand anders m opent en het niet doet gil ik wel dat ze het moeten toevoegenquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:49 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Nog wat leesvoer toegevoegd, wil iemand bij het openen van deel 3 de OP meenemen?
Waar we nu zitten is een topic. Een topic gaat dicht na 300 posts, automatisch. Krijg je meerdere topics over één ding, spreekt men van een reeks. Dit is de "Natalee Holloway (in the rebound)" reeks.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:02 schreef johan555 het volgende:
de Op meenemen?????????????????????
De eerste post in een topic is de OP=OpeningsPost. In de OP zetten wij, als wij spreken van een reeks, de linkjes van vorige delen en aanvullende informatie. Mensen die dan pas bij deel 4 bijvoorbeeld erin komen zijn met één klik in deel 1. Daarom "de OP meenemen." Snap je het nu?
OP - Openingspost
TS - TopicStarter
TT - TopicTitel.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
If Madmaster really got banned for having an opinion different than theirs, well, then " "
"
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Difference in upbringing and culture.quote:Op woensdag 6 february 2008 14:46 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
What's wrong with that post?
I tried to answer everybody, but got bashed even more every time...
"Good girls don't have sex before their married"
Well, every youngster, whatever country there from do things that's normal for youngsters, parents should warn their children that there's a world outside..
I don't condemn kids on holiday, but I an serious worried about parents who put their head in the sand and let their children go off on holiday without a proper lecture or warning.
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
You're communicating with people who seem to be 'convinced', and you have a sceptic point of view, perhaps that plays a role?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:38 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
[..]
As far as I know I didn't misbehaved myself, I gave my opinion about the coverup-conspiracy I don't believe and I was a little cynical about some opinions from some people overthere. But I ended my last posting -1 by saying that I hoped that this case will be solved and that justice will be done to those in the way they deserve it. By that, I kept every option open about who's involved and who's guilty...
But maybe Observer can tell me the exact reason why I'm banned, I'm very curious...
I´m back.
No, from Lutjebroekquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:57 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
Is scaredmonkeys American?
What did you think?
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Maybe Canadian because Observer isquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:58 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
No, from Lutjebroek [afbeelding]
What did you think? [afbeelding]
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
uit canada en spreekt zelfs nederlands
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Well, if this is how it is and theyre American, then it is just typical.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:56 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Difference in upbringing and culture.
"Good girls don't have sex before their married"
Well, every youngster, whatever country there from do things that's normal for youngsters, parents should warn their children that there's a world outside..
I don't condemn kids on holiday, but I an serious worried about parents who put their head in the sand and let their children go off on holiday without a proper lecture or warning.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
If youre talking about Observer, he doesn't read or speak Dutch.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:05 schreef johan555 het volgende:
uit canada en spreekt zelfs nederlands
And oy, Im kind enough to explain the forum to you and what do I get? Nothing
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
If you don't mind me saying so, yes, I think you're wrong. Until something has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, you should not disregard any possibilities. We know for a fact that the Antilles would have a motive for covering up that there was a gang of rapists active on the Island, especially if they were rich white Dutch kids. It's possible that Natalee is not the first case. Obviously some people are convinced that this is true, and obviously some people are convinced that Natalee died from alcohol poisoning and all Joran did was have someone dump her dead body in the ocean... The truth may be somewhere in the middle or even more extreme than either.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:45 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
So the govt is 'corrupt and evil', therefore they - most definetly - covered up this crime? That's reasoning backwards hey; while apparantly you don't even have the evidence to proof the first stepstone in your theory.
Ressemblance with the method of reasoning backwords in the Maddie McCann case comes to mind. Users of weblogs are convinced the McCanns killed their daughter and with of without help from others disposed of her body, after which a huge cover up was set in place, including even British PM Gordon F. Brown; because they dislike the McCanns, authorities in general, and Labour/liberals/leftists in specific, or found that the McCanns acted irresponsibly bij leaving their kids alone while dining in the tappasbar, something they themself would ofcourse never do.
Or am I wrong?
Or maybe I'm wrong and jumped into a conversation halfway without knowing what is was about... if so, sorry
a gang of rapists
rich white dutch kids...
conspiracytheorists
rich white dutch kids...
conspiracytheorists
[b]Op vrijdag 7 november 2008 08:54 schreef santax het volgende:[/b]
[..]
Blij dat er nog mensen hier zijn waar ik me wel in herken.
U, meneer MikeyMo, bent mijn nieuwe FOK!-held _O_
[..]
Blij dat er nog mensen hier zijn waar ik me wel in herken.
U, meneer MikeyMo, bent mijn nieuwe FOK!-held _O_
That's true, and almost in every instance they mix their believes with a moral conviction.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:56 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
Difference in upbringing and culture.
"Good girls don't have sex before their married"
Observer777 said that Aruban govt not only is corrupt, but also 'evil'. Evil is a theological conception.
I´m back.
First you bring up the McCann girl who has nothing to do with it, now you bring up theology.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:16 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
That's tru, and almost in every instance they mix their believes with a moral conviction.
Observer777 said that Aruban govt not only is corrupt, but also 'evil'. Evil is a theological conception.
Do you mean to say that it's impossible that the government on Aruba is corrupt and or criminal? Wouldn't you call it evil if they were corrupt and criminal?
Then again,quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:16 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
That's tru, and almost in every instance they mix their believes with a moral conviction.
Observer777 said that Aruban govt not only is corrupt, but also 'evil'. Evil is a theological conception.
warn your kids, give them proper know how how
the WORLD is working before sending them off on a holiday MILES away from home!
I simply refuse to believe that parents in america are really so ignorant to believe that their children don't have a good time on holiday and for some kids is having a good time having booze and sex and not on purpose, just because..
Our world isn't Disneyland, as a parent you should inform your child of the risks and dangers in the world.
And american parents dó know how kids are...why send them off on a holiday far far away?
That's safer, so no neighbour can judge your child..
And they know it, parents around the world are pretty much the same.
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
The way Observer puts it is "The government is corrupt THEREFOR theyre covering this case up" That doesnt mean the government isnt corrupt, it means the fact that the government is corrupt does NOT mean that this case is a cover up.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:21 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
[..]
First you bring up the McCann girl who has nothing to do with it, now you bring up theology.
Do you mean to say that it's impossible that the government on Aruba is corrupt and or criminal? Wouldn't you call it evil if they were corrupt and criminal?
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
In the McCann case you'll see the same psychological dynamics. Resulting in trying to proof your theory by reasoning backwards. This almost in order to drive the devil out... i.e. the evil McCann couple and the evil Aruban govt.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:21 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
[..]
First you bring up the McCann girl who has nothing to do with it, now you bring up theology.
No, I said they could well be corrupt, but this does not necessarily mean they have their hand in a cover up.quote:Do you mean to say that it's impossible that the government on Aruba is corrupt and or criminal? Wouldn't you call it evil if they were corrupt and criminal?
In fact they'll have much more to win when they bring the culprit(s) to justice, certainly if'you're talking about a gang of young kids who on a regular basis rape tourists.
I´m back.
die amerikanen, wat een volk!quote:Holland is centuries ahead of Aruba as far as the sophistication of the civilization of it's people, but it is fair to say that Aruba is a caricature of Holland.A country where the same moral compass is at work, only in Aruba they tend to go 20 degrees further than their fellow Dutch who live in Holland, and don't even realize they are out of the bounds of anybody's comfort zone of decency. Holland no doubts benefits as a country from the illegal drug trade, has legalized prostitution, drugs are legal, and is home to the largest manufacturer of XTC in the world. Piracy, smuggling, receiving and selling of the loots stolen by pirates who were given safe harbor by the Dutch Masters laid the groundwork for the culture that populates Aruba and the NE, only pirates have been replaced by drug lords. Someone mentioned that Holland had a lot of old wealthy companies. It would be interesting to research just how the old money of Holland was accumulated. I'll bet that a significant amount of the wealth came from smuggling, selling stolen goods, bribes received from drug trafficking and piracy, etc.
On the right you have Guido, with Joran, playing their con on Holloway, and her friends.
Guido Wever Fights Extradition
Wever was a tennis partner, and close friend/accomplice to Joran. He was a croupier (dealer) at the Holiday Inn, who scouted girls for Joran. Their routine was for Joran to help girls win, thereby befriending them. Joran and Guido were into ecstasy, and were thought to engage in homosexual activities. The day after the murder, they played tennis, and were together till 2:00 in the morning. Wever is a low paid hotel worker and an accomplice, who moves to Holland.
http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm
Grappig, zo lang er niemand dood gaat..
- Maybe O.D.B My Long Distance Family -
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
Oh well, they can have Arubaquote:
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Maar hij ziet er zo koetsjie koetsjie uit
Edit, die Wever dus
Edit, die Wever dus
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
I still can't see any proof of that person being Joran's father btw.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:31 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]
On the right you have Guido, with Joran, playing their con on Holloway, and her friends.
http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm
Grappig, zo lang er niemand dood gaat..
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Ik heb het nieuwe deel trouwens klaar staan, soit.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Not if they had been covering up for a longer time and Natalee wasn't the first case. If it's corrupt, almost everybody is involved somehow... If one domino falls, they all fall...quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:28 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
...
In fact they'll have much more to win when they bring the culprit(s) to justice, certainly if'you're talking about a gang of young kids who on a regular basis rape tourists.
Is it a fact by the way that they did that? Joran and Wever.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:36 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
I still can't see any proof of that person being Joran's father btw.
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Well at first i also was sceptic about it, but then I looked at the picture better:quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:36 schreef yvonne het volgende:
[..]
I still can't see any proof of that person being Joran's father btw.
Notice, especially the spot where he is getting bald on the back of his head and then check this picture:
Also funny to know they even made conversation:
- Maybe O.D.B My Long Distance Family -
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
"Computer says: no.."
"Laat hen gaan, blinden zijn zij, die blinden leiden. Indien een blinde een blinde leidt, zullen zij beiden in een put vallen". (Matteüs 15:14)
http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm That site Permission to laugh? .If I were old enough Id get WWII flashbacks
[ Bericht 29% gewijzigd door Harajuku. op 06-02-2008 15:48:48 ]
Permission to laugh? .If I were old enough Id get WWII flashbacks [ Bericht 29% gewijzigd door Harajuku. op 06-02-2008 15:48:48 ]
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
de ouders van dhr wever hebben een crematorium op auruba
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Hmmmmmquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:14 schreef MikeyMo het volgende:
a gang of rapists
rich white dutch kids...
conspiracytheorists
somehow it could be possible. It would n't surprise me. But I still would like to see some proof of it.
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
Is dit de site van meki?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:43 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm That site [ afbeelding ] Permission to laugh? [ afbeelding ].If I were old enough Id get WWII flashbacks
Yvonne riep ergens: Static is gewoon Static, je leeft met hem of niet.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Geen verborgen agenda's, trouw, grote muil, lief hartje, bang voor bloed, scheld FA's graag uit voor lul.
Op dinsdag 26 oktober 2021 16:46 schreef Elan het volgende:
Hier sta ik dan weer niet van te kijken Zelfs het virus is bang voor jou.
Harajuku kan dat fototje wat langzamer???
Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.
Nee.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:53 schreef johan555 het volgende:
Harajuku kan dat fototje wat langzamer???
[afbeelding]
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I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
Ik dacht dat Meki over alle blanken zo spreekt, niet alleen de Joden?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:51 schreef yvonne het volgende:
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Is dit de site van meki? [afbeelding]
I liked it. I was good at it. It made me feel alive.
This issue was where my last post @ SM was about...quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:56 schreef yvonne het volgende:
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Difference in upbringing and culture.
"Good girls don't have sex before their married"
Well, every youngster, whatever country there from do things that's normal for youngsters, parents should warn their children that there's a world outside..
I don't condemn kids on holiday, but I an serious worried about parents who put their head in the sand and let their children go off on holiday without a proper lecture or warning.
I told I saw some young American girls drunk last week, screaming around the terraces of some restaurants and thought they should have a liitle self responsibility too...
So what ???quote:I told I saw some young American girls drunk last week, screaming around the terraces of some restaurants and thought they should have a liitle self responsibility too...
Ga fietsen jij !! ikke niet hoor..
