Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) #2

Op (openingspagina)

Observer777:

Is there one single acceptable time-/factline somewhere @ SM?
I've been reading this night a lot on SM and found many, many theories, but is there someone on SM who tries to gather all theories and facts and combine them.

It's impossible to read all info @ SM after such a long time with so many posts.

Although I still don't believe the coverup you and others at SM are describing, I would like to start somewhere to get an objective view on this case from the sight of the SM-people, if possible...

What the fuck????

quote:

An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry MadMaster, you are banned from using this forum!
You said you made your last post

Now I'm really pissed...

Who the fuck do those people at SM think they are?
God or something?

I've been discussing all night in a fair way and get this as an answer?
Censoring people isn't a strong case...

Am I banned because I gave one more, reasonable answer after I said I posted my final posting...?

Sad thing this, which will only make me even more I'm right about the hypocritical view of people from the USA...

I'm going to have a dive this morning, into the Aruban sea...

als je me een link geeft van deel 3 zet ik de op over van deel 1

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:21 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
What the fuck????
[..]

Now I'm really pissed...

Who the fuck do those people at SM think they are?
God or something?

I've been discussing all night in a fair way and get this as an answer?
Censoring people isn't a strong case...

Am I banned because I gave one more, reasonable answer after I said I posted my final posting...?

Sad thing this, which will only make me even more I'm right about the hypocritical view of people from the USA...

I'm going to have a dive this morning, into the Aruban sea...

Is that because of your criticism or because you somehow misbehaved?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:28 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

Is that because of your criticism or because you somehow misbehaved?

As far as I know I didn't misbehaved myself, I gave my opinion about the coverup-conspiracy I don't believe and I was a little cynical about some opinions from some people overthere. But I ended my last posting -1 by saying that I hoped that this case will be solved and that justice will be done to those in the way they deserve it. By that, I kept every option open about who's involved and who's guilty...

But maybe Observer can tell me the exact reason why I'm banned, I'm very curious...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:28 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

Is that because of your criticism or because you somehow misbehaved?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2574.msg342499#msg342499
Difference in thinking, difference in culture?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:39 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2574.msg342499#msg342499
Difference in thinking, difference in culture?

I don't have access to SM at all anymore (probably an IP-ban), so I don't know what's been written in that particular posting.
Can someone post it overhere?

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Now MadMaster, put that in your pipe & smoke it.

We smoke some other things...

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This is why Aruba is suffering a boycott. Where is the support of Natalee?

On Aruba is was carnaval last sunday, that's prio #1 overhere.
The show isn't broadcasted yet on TeleAruba, the Aruban TV, but it was on ABC which is available at Aruba.

And why special support to Natalle from the Arubans?
The have respect for her, but they don't know the girl at all.

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Why the people of Aruba are so afraid of their politicians and police is sad. In the US we protest and fight for our freedoms ... in Aruba ... its hardly the case. Truly sad.

I don't think people of Aruba are afraid of the gouvernment.
They try to make a living and that's more important to them than the dead of a girl.
Maybe they are selfish, but that's how it is...

Quote
MadMaster - most of us here at Scared Monkeys have been following this case and fighting for justice for Natalee since June 2005. We've seen it all. At first we believed ALE would do the right thing but time and time again we were shocked.

We've had Aruban posters outright lie about the laws, lie about events, lie about everything just to help cover up a crime. Please excuse us if we don't feel very sorry for the innocent Arubans now.

The American people owe nothing to Aruba including tourism. If people decide not to go to Aruba because of how the Natalee Holloway case was mishandled it's their own choice.

There is nothing you can do to sway our opinion now. Too much damage has already been done by the likes of Julia Renfro and her friends.

You have the Sloots and those in AHATA and ALE that helped coverup the crime to blame. Not the family of Natalee Holloway.

That's your opinion, I've got mine.
That's all I can say.
I understand that you're angry, but a boycot won't solve this case.

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I've seen protests for workers rights, etc.

Maybe they could just wear tshirts stating "I support "the girl". or I stand with the family. March with a sign like they did against Beth. Show ground roots support.

That won't help the case, not even if you did that in the USA.

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Yes! Or even a little demonstration would show that the general population
did not approve of the way the government had handled the investigation.
There was a demonstration against Beth, so I know it can be done.

Once again, that won't solve the case.

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Madmaster
I think what is really telling in all this is Joran was not certain that Natalee was dead. It is obvious that he did not know and for that what he has done is unforgivable to me. I am a mother with a daughter Natalee's age. In fact, she is attending the University that Natalee was to attend. Regardless of how people view Natalee, no one deserves to be tossed into the sea. The prospect of Natalee still being alive and him doing nothing to help her is completely unfathomable to me. My anger comes from a deep rage that is given to mothers from the time their children are born.

For you as being a mother I understand your feelings...

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Aruba clearly allowed this to be swept under the rug. Their intentions were about tourism and that only. The millions they have spent on trying to woo us imperialistic Americans back to their island could have been spent better ways. Aruba is known for a haven of drug smuggling and other nefarious things. This is not me, it's a fact. The people of Aruba have fallen into what I call the lab rat mentality. As long as they are well fed and they don't know... everything is fine. Franky, Joran isn't Aruba's only problem right now.

Maybe you're right, but Aruba isn't like the USA with billions of dollars of debts and more to come.

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Did they die or disappear or did they get home safe?

I don't know, but those girls were potential Natalee's...

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No sympathy for the good people of Aruba. Hey, this ain't no hobby for those of us who stay with this case. Your self centered attitude is missing the point. We value our time but have decided to fight for justice.

When will you!

OK, no discussion with you...

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A revolution would be a good start. This is why we have our 2nd amendment.

You can't be serious about that... ???????

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Even if all that was true ... that does not mean that anyone has a right to sexually assault them or kill them ... Are you that stupid or do you just intend to be a troll.

You are about 2 1/2 years too late to this party to be asking these stupid questions and presenting these scenarios. That's was separates Aruba from the US if you wish to know ... you are literally saying that she asked for it.

What an island. And you wonder why no one now wishes to go there as the cat is out of the bag.

Can't you read?
I never said that Natalee asked to be killed.
That's probably something you want to hear from me, but I will never do that...

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Madmaster: I admire your courage to come here. I just don't think you have ANY idea of the actual facts of this case like most of us here that followed it since the very first week.

I already decided that this is really my last post.
I've made my point and it's not my job to change opinions or whatever.

I understand your angryness but that won't solve the case.

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for some reason - you're really pissing me off.

You better get that image outta yer mind real fast.

I'm real tired of your excuses for looking at our women that way!!!

I'm not lying, do you think I am?
I've discussed this with my wife too and she was also shocked by seeing those girls walking around that way.

I don't say Natalee behaved that way, I wasn't there and simply don't knowI gave it as an exampel, nothing more, nothing less. I know Dutch girls who behave the same way too...

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HEHE I was just fixin to tell MadMaster that he is/she is treading on some awfully dangerous ground right about now...

It seems I'm on a vulcano that can erupt every moment...

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Mad MAster:

I already showed you Joran had a history of drugging girls and did it before Natalee arrived and he was caught. No one did anything about it,if someone would have stopped him and done something about it..Natalee would be with us today!! Joran bragged to everyone because he felt invincible and was never punished for anything,the police did nothing when these girls came to them and said they were drugged and sexually assaulted by Joran..He killed his own dog,vandalized the island,threatened people..The Police did nothing!! Sure enough the same thing probably happened to Natalee..She was not a drunking slut..The absolute direct opposite!! Goody too shoes if you will..

Let me be clear, I hate Joran just as much as you do.
If I could beat him up, I would, believe me...

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MadMaster - when you have some free time, maybe you should read up a bit. Here's a good place to start.

Corruption and Collusion in the Aruban Government

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=599.0

+

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MadMaster,

There are some links here at SM for you to read over that might shed some light on what we know and why we feel the way we do. There are tons of excellent info. collected over the years, including Statements of those arrested, etc.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=599.0 Corruption and Collusion in Aruban Govt.

It's alot of info and will take some time to geth through, but this might be enough to get people outraged to do something.

I hope this helps.


I will, although I maybe have been reading that before, not sure.
I've been reading a lot the last days...

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Yes, You can do something to help your friends if you have the balls.
Have some T shirts printed....pink would be nice... that simply say:
"I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway." I'll bet they would sell like
hotcakes and make a fine statement. Aruban Officials would get the
message.

I'm not convinced about that, sorry...

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MadMaster, I know there are some good hardworking, caring & decent people on Aruba. I have talked with a few of them.
My biggest problem is the majority of people there are only interested in Tourism.
AKA MONEY
To those types the only thing that matters is making money, not the life of an innocent girl or her suffering family.
IMO there are a lot that need to be put off the island to swim to their next Money Fest. Some of those are American Traitors who should never be allowed back into our country.
As far as I know Aruba believes in free speech & the islanders who do care & love their country stould make their voices heard & stop the Corruptness NOW!!!

Most local people aren't rich here, they just can make a living and are very bussy by doing that...


-------------------------------------------------

Sorry guys, but I can't handle all answers/postings to my adress.
That's why I stop now, not because I want to stop.

Once and for all, for whatever what personal reason everybody has, I really, really hope that this case will come to an end soon with justice to all who deserves it the way that asked for it.

Peace!!

Take care,
Madmaster (amsterdam, Holland - Oranjestad, Aruba)

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:35 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

What do you want proof of? Did you see what I posted on the Corruption and Collusion on the Aruban Govt? I can name 3 ministers that were caught Red Handed with drugs,rape and whoring women. Plus about 24 other things like letting a convicted mobster own and operate the hotel and casino where Natalee dissapeared from. If you are looking to defend that Aruban Govt you will not win..They are as corrupt and evil as they come.They most definetly covered up Natalees murder! Pick one subject and I will do my best to prove it,All of these subjects have been talked about and examined extensively at SM and should be very easy to provide facts.

I don't think that is all he has at all..He was pretty quiet after what he showed in his first show..He did very well there and has provided facts about some of the things you are asking about,like the search of that house,the admissions of Jorans lawyer and a few other things. I hope he keeps going.

So the govt is 'corrupt and evil', therefore they - most definetly - covered up this crime? That's reasoning backwards hey; while apparantly you don't even have the evidence to proof the first stepstone in your theory.
Ressemblance with the method of reasoning backwords in the Maddie McCann case comes to mind. Users of weblogs are convinced the McCanns killed their daughter and with of without help from others disposed of her body, after which a huge cover up was set in place, including even British PM Gordon F. Brown; because they dislike the McCanns, authorities in general, and Labour/liberals/leftists in specific, or found that the McCanns acted irresponsibly bij leaving their kids alone while dining in the tappasbar, something they themself would ofcourse never do.

Or am I wrong?

What's wrong with that post?
I tried to answer everybody, but got bashed even more every time...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:49 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Nog wat leesvoer toegevoegd, wil iemand bij het openen van deel 3 de OP meenemen?

Als ik hem open doe ik dat en als iemand anders m opent en het niet doet gil ik wel dat ze het moeten toevoegen

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:02 schreef johan555 het volgende:
de Op meenemen?????????????????????

Waar we nu zitten is een topic. Een topic gaat dicht na 300 posts, automatisch. Krijg je meerdere topics over één ding, spreekt men van een reeks. Dit is de "Natalee Holloway (in the rebound)" reeks.
De eerste post in een topic is de OP=OpeningsPost. In de OP zetten wij, als wij spreken van een reeks, de linkjes van vorige delen en aanvullende informatie. Mensen die dan pas bij deel 4 bijvoorbeeld erin komen zijn met één klik in deel 1. Daarom "de OP meenemen." Snap je het nu?

OP - Openingspost
TS - TopicStarter
TT - TopicTitel.

If Madmaster really got banned for having an opinion different than theirs, well, then " "

quote:

Op woensdag 6 february 2008 14:46 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
What's wrong with that post?
I tried to answer everybody, but got bashed even more every time...

Difference in upbringing and culture.

"Good girls don't have sex before their married"

Well, every youngster, whatever country there from do things that's normal for youngsters, parents should warn their children that there's a world outside..
I don't condemn kids on holiday, but I an serious worried about parents who put their head in the sand and let their children go off on holiday without a proper lecture or warning.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:38 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

As far as I know I didn't misbehaved myself, I gave my opinion about the coverup-conspiracy I don't believe and I was a little cynical about some opinions from some people overthere. But I ended my last posting -1 by saying that I hoped that this case will be solved and that justice will be done to those in the way they deserve it. By that, I kept every option open about who's involved and who's guilty...

But maybe Observer can tell me the exact reason why I'm banned, I'm very curious...

You're communicating with people who seem to be 'convinced', and you have a sceptic point of view, perhaps that plays a role?

Is scaredmonkeys American?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:57 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
Is scaredmonkeys American?

No, from Lutjebroek

What did you think?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:58 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

No, from Lutjebroek [afbeelding]

What did you think? [afbeelding]

Maybe Canadian because Observer is

uit canada en spreekt zelfs nederlands

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:56 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Difference in upbringing and culture.

"Good girls don't have sex before their married"

Well, every youngster, whatever country there from do things that's normal for youngsters, parents should warn their children that there's a world outside..
I don't condemn kids on holiday, but I an serious worried about parents who put their head in the sand and let their children go off on holiday without a proper lecture or warning.

Well, if this is how it is and theyre American, then it is just typical.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:05 schreef johan555 het volgende:
uit canada en spreekt zelfs nederlands

If youre talking about Observer, he doesn't read or speak Dutch.

And oy, Im kind enough to explain the forum to you and what do I get? Nothing

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:45 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

So the govt is 'corrupt and evil', therefore they - most definetly - covered up this crime? That's reasoning backwards hey; while apparantly you don't even have the evidence to proof the first stepstone in your theory.
Ressemblance with the method of reasoning backwords in the Maddie McCann case comes to mind. Users of weblogs are convinced the McCanns killed their daughter and with of without help from others disposed of her body, after which a huge cover up was set in place, including even British PM Gordon F. Brown; because they dislike the McCanns, authorities in general, and Labour/liberals/leftists in specific, or found that the McCanns acted irresponsibly bij leaving their kids alone while dining in the tappasbar, something they themself would ofcourse never do.

Or am I wrong?

If you don't mind me saying so, yes, I think you're wrong. Until something has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, you should not disregard any possibilities. We know for a fact that the Antilles would have a motive for covering up that there was a gang of rapists active on the Island, especially if they were rich white Dutch kids. It's possible that Natalee is not the first case. Obviously some people are convinced that this is true, and obviously some people are convinced that Natalee died from alcohol poisoning and all Joran did was have someone dump her dead body in the ocean... The truth may be somewhere in the middle or even more extreme than either.

Or maybe I'm wrong and jumped into a conversation halfway without knowing what is was about... if so, sorry

a gang of rapists

rich white dutch kids...

conspiracytheorists

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:56 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Difference in upbringing and culture.

"Good girls don't have sex before their married"

That's true, and almost in every instance they mix their believes with a moral conviction.
Observer777 said that Aruban govt not only is corrupt, but also 'evil'. Evil is a theological conception.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:16 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

That's tru, and almost in every instance they mix their believes with a moral conviction.
Observer777 said that Aruban govt not only is corrupt, but also 'evil'. Evil is a theological conception.

First you bring up the McCann girl who has nothing to do with it, now you bring up theology.

Do you mean to say that it's impossible that the government on Aruba is corrupt and or criminal? Wouldn't you call it evil if they were corrupt and criminal?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:16 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

That's tru, and almost in every instance they mix their believes with a moral conviction.
Observer777 said that Aruban govt not only is corrupt, but also 'evil'. Evil is a theological conception.

Then again,
warn your kids, give them proper know how how
the WORLD is working before sending them off on a holiday MILES away from home!
I simply refuse to believe that parents in america are really so ignorant to believe that their children don't have a good time on holiday and for some kids is having a good time having booze and sex and not on purpose, just because..
Our world isn't Disneyland, as a parent you should inform your child of the risks and dangers in the world.
And american parents dó know how kids are...why send them off on a holiday far far away?
That's safer, so no neighbour can judge your child..
And they know it, parents around the world are pretty much the same.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:21 schreef Tennessee het volgende:

[..]

First you bring up the McCann girl who has nothing to do with it, now you bring up theology.

Do you mean to say that it's impossible that the government on Aruba is corrupt and or criminal? Wouldn't you call it evil if they were corrupt and criminal?

The way Observer puts it is "The government is corrupt THEREFOR theyre covering this case up" That doesnt mean the government isnt corrupt, it means the fact that the government is corrupt does NOT mean that this case is a cover up.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:21 schreef Tennessee het volgende:

[..]

First you bring up the McCann girl who has nothing to do with it, now you bring up theology.

In the McCann case you'll see the same psychological dynamics. Resulting in trying to proof your theory by reasoning backwards. This almost in order to drive the devil out... i.e. the evil McCann couple and the evil Aruban govt.

quote:

Do you mean to say that it's impossible that the government on Aruba is corrupt and or criminal? Wouldn't you call it evil if they were corrupt and criminal?

No, I said they could well be corrupt, but this does not necessarily mean they have their hand in a cover up.
In fact they'll have much more to win when they bring the culprit(s) to justice, certainly if'you're talking about a gang of young kids who on a regular basis rape tourists.

quote:

Holland is centuries ahead of Aruba as far as the sophistication of the civilization of it's people, but it is fair to say that Aruba is a caricature of Holland.A country where the same moral compass is at work, only in Aruba they tend to go 20 degrees further than their fellow Dutch who live in Holland, and don't even realize they are out of the bounds of anybody's comfort zone of decency. Holland no doubts benefits as a country from the illegal drug trade, has legalized prostitution, drugs are legal, and is home to the largest manufacturer of XTC in the world. Piracy, smuggling, receiving and selling of the loots stolen by pirates who were given safe harbor by the Dutch Masters laid the groundwork for the culture that populates Aruba and the NE, only pirates have been replaced by drug lords. Someone mentioned that Holland had a lot of old wealthy companies. It would be interesting to research just how the old money of Holland was accumulated. I'll bet that a significant amount of the wealth came from smuggling, selling stolen goods, bribes received from drug trafficking and piracy, etc.

die amerikanen, wat een volk!

Pirates

On the right you have Guido, with Joran, playing their con on Holloway, and her friends.

Guido Wever Fights Extradition

Wever was a tennis partner, and close friend/accomplice to Joran. He was a croupier (dealer) at the Holiday Inn, who scouted girls for Joran. Their routine was for Joran to help girls win, thereby befriending them. Joran and Guido were into ecstasy, and were thought to engage in homosexual activities. The day after the murder, they played tennis, and were together till 2:00 in the morning. Wever is a low paid hotel worker and an accomplice, who moves to Holland.


http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm

Grappig, zo lang er niemand dood gaat..

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:28 schreef ASroma het volgende:

[..]

die amerikanen, wat een volk!

Oh well, they can have Aruba

Maar hij ziet er zo koetsjie koetsjie uit
Edit, die Wever dus

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:28 schreef ASroma het volgende:

[..]

die amerikanen, wat een volk!

Tja, wat een manier van redeneren hè. .

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:31 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]
On the right you have Guido, with Joran, playing their con on Holloway, and her friends.


http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm

Grappig, zo lang er niemand dood gaat..

I still can't see any proof of that person being Joran's father btw.

Ik heb het nieuwe deel trouwens klaar staan, soit.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:28 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
...
In fact they'll have much more to win when they bring the culprit(s) to justice, certainly if'you're talking about a gang of young kids who on a regular basis rape tourists.

Not if they had been covering up for a longer time and Natalee wasn't the first case. If it's corrupt, almost everybody is involved somehow... If one domino falls, they all fall...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:36 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

I still can't see any proof of that person being Joran's father btw.

Is it a fact by the way that they did that? Joran and Wever.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:36 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

I still can't see any proof of that person being Joran's father btw.

Well at first i also was sceptic about it, but then I looked at the picture better:



Notice, especially the spot where he is getting bald on the back of his head and then check this picture:




Also funny to know they even made conversation:

http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm That site Permission to laugh? .If I were old enough Id get WWII flashbacks

[ Bericht 29% gewijzigd door Harajuku. op 06-02-2008 15:48:48 ]

de ouders van dhr wever hebben een crematorium op auruba

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:14 schreef MikeyMo het volgende:
a gang of rapists

rich white dutch kids...

conspiracytheorists

Hmmmmm somehow it could be possible. It would n't surprise me. _{But I still would like to see some proof of it.}

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:43 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm That site [ afbeelding ] Permission to laugh? [ afbeelding ].If I were old enough Id get WWII flashbacks

Is dit de site van meki?

Harajuku kan dat fototje wat langzamer???

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:53 schreef johan555 het volgende:
Harajuku kan dat fototje wat langzamer???
[afbeelding]

Nee.

.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:51 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Is dit de site van meki? [afbeelding]

Ik dacht dat Meki over alle blanken zo spreekt, niet alleen de Joden?

Nu, chop chop, even snel vol maken

Doei

Goddamn, jullie gaan snel

Mwuh http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:56 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Difference in upbringing and culture.

"Good girls don't have sex before their married"

Well, every youngster, whatever country there from do things that's normal for youngsters, parents should warn their children that there's a world outside..
I don't condemn kids on holiday, but I an serious worried about parents who put their head in the sand and let their children go off on holiday without a proper lecture or warning.

This issue was where my last post @ SM was about...

I told I saw some young American girls drunk last week, screaming around the terraces of some restaurants and thought they should have a liitle self responsibility too...