I want people from Aruba and Holland to post over at SM..Trust me many Americans don't know very much about the case and only see what the American media has shown and it has been awful coverage with people that know nothing about the case. You are doing good and I appreciate you talking to so many with so many questions..But I think you don't know everything about this case and what we all have been through..I hope you take a interest because over and over again I see scared people in Aruba that truly don't even know what took place in there own country. Some do,but most don't!!quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 05:37 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
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I'm sorry for being 'different', but I'm not gonna tell a different story overthere then I do overhere...
quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:47 schreef Yavido het volgende:
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A good advice, don't give this guy too much credits. He's provocate all the time in discussions with his 'evidence' argument.
The principle reason for it was to put pressure on "the authorities" to put their weight behind solving the case. Making them choose between covering up for the perpetrators or the economy of Aruba. If its apparently a game of interests, not one of justice, then ok lets play the game of interests and see when the declining tourism becomes a factor.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:33 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
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I'm on Aruba right now, visiting friends who work in the tourism section of the island and they really feel the dropdown of American tourists every day.
Ofcourse, there are good and bad people all around the world, but why are the US people keep bashing whole Aruba and it's economical position for this case? Are they all guilty, did they all helped Joran van der Sloot or...?
I visit Aruba very often and although I don't want to say that there is no corruption or anything like that at all, I think corruption is everywhere (also in the US) and that's what i call the hypocritical part of the story...
Did Joran also had something to do with 9-11?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 06:07 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
I want people from Aruba and Holland to post over at SM..Trust me many Americans don't know very much about the case and only see what the American media has shown and it has been awful coverage with people that know nothing about the case. You are doing good and I appreciate you talking to so many with so many questions..But I think you don't know everything about this case and what we all have been through..I hope you take a interest because over and over again I see scared people in Aruba that truly don't even know what took place in there own country. Some do,but most don't!!
Like that poster was trying to tell you,the OM kept asking Natalee's Family if she had seizures just a few days after she dissapeared..She never ever had any history of that and the Family thought it was strange the Aruban Authorities kept asking them that!! We all saw in Joran's Confession with De Vries he said the same thing and he acted out her shaking violently before she died..I am telling you Joran confessed back in June 2005 and this was all covered up!!
quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 05:46 schreef BwennieBren het volgende:
Hi observer777,
You seem to have a lot of information about this case. I would like to ask you the following questions. Maybe you have the answers.
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Hi,I hope you are sincere and not coming from one of the anti-beths site or are you just misinformed?
Where have you been reading about this case? You really need to go to another blog!! You can't believe a word from the Mouth of Julia Renfro!! She is a proven liar and she is sinister! I am tired so I will do this quickly off the top of my head.
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1. Why was this initial poster put up if Beth immediately knew (so she said on TV) that her daughter was harmed or kidnapped? Did she think Natalee was still alive then?
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That poster was made by Julia Renfro and Angela M..That is there cell numbers on the posters which they lied about in the video you posted! She probably thought she was alive,she had no reason to lose all hope that first few days.Natalee was a goody two shoes and I would have thought the same thing if Natalee was my daughter. Natalee did not do drugs,never run away before and was a str8 A student. What was she supposed to put on the fliers? Why has Julia Renfro deliberately lied about this murdered victim and her Family? For money or because she is friends of the sloots?Why did she tell the Family Natalee was confirmed dead and to show up at the courthouse for a press conference just a few days after NH dissapeared?Only when they showed up no one was there. Why was she spreading rumors almost daily that Natalee ran away to other countries,ran away with a blue eyed dutch boy? I could write a full page of her lies,she is one sick person!
which is later replaced by this poster:
2. Why were the friends of Natalee not questioned by the Aruban police and immediately flew home the day after Natalee went missing?
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Look the kids had scheduled flights home were they supposed to miss all there flights? They didn't even realize Natalee was missing until they were all getting ready to go the airport. They were all questioned extensively by the FBI and later the ALE I beleive,the answers do not lie in Mountain Brook and if someone thinks so they are sadly mistaken. What are they supposed to know about what Joran and the Kalpoes brothers did to her? They were the last ones seen with her and were caught lying immediately.
The Aruban police didn't even take Jug Twitty's statement for like 30 days and others that were there that first night there statements were never taken. The lead investigator Dennis Jacobs was caught changing Beths statement..Can you believe that? When she went back at a much later date they promised her she could make a new statement but instead grilled her on insurance money and dealings with Colombians..Unreal huh? Did you know what lead investigator dennis jacobs asked Natalee's dad when they first met? How much money do you have? Told him to go to Carlos and Charlies and not worry about searching,she will show up,go have a beer,but watch your dink because people put drugs into them!!
3. What happened to the Mr. Joe Mammana who helped Beth in her search for Natalee?
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Not sure..Do you know? I think he took interest because he helps missing and exploited people..Why do you ask? This guy just wanted to help and has nothing to do with anything.
4. It took 6 months for Natalees name te be on the FBI's missing persons list? Do you maybe know why?
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Hmm..Good question..You should ask them..
5. What does Scared Monkeys think about the boycot of Aruba in November 2005 of Gov. Riley[/url] (see: and the Twitty's, while Aruba probably did ]everything possible[/url] to help the Twitty - Holloway family in their search for Natalee?
That while Jug Twitty has send ]this letter[/url] To Gov Riley in august 2005?
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SM mostly in in full support of a boycott and ask's all americans to stop traveling until Natalee finally gets a honest Investigation and the Aruban Authorities expose the cover up and stop protecting those that murdered Natalee.. But I can't speak for everyone..You should ask them! What was the Family supposed to do?They were already threatened by the lead prosecuter and the mnister of justice that they would stop the case if the family didnt stop complaining. Every hope they had of ever seeing there daughter again rested in the hands of the Arubans..They were helpless and it was absolutely shocking what the Aruban Authorities did to this poor family and natalee.The conflict of interest is unbelievable and so was the cover up. Why was Jan Van Der Straaten allowed to lead the Investigation when his best friend and son were arrested on suspicion of rape,murder and kidnapping? Is it coincidence that they were allowed to roam free for 10 days while they tried to frame to innocent men? You know on June 1st everyone knew they were lying about where they dropped of the girl but still they were allowed to destroy evidence and cover up?
6. Is it true that Gerald Dompig couldn't do a research on the background of the Holloway-Twitty's and was threatened by the FBI because of that?
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I don't work for the FBI but this guy Dompig lost all credibility..He has zero. He was trying to dig up dirt and the FBI wanted no part of his dirtball tactics and disinformation campaign..Reminds me of the chief prosecuter who wrote the justice dept in usa asking about beths relation to hitler and if they traveled to austria. What did that have to do with anything? Didnt Jorans Lawyer a few weeks into the Investigation confess to her that Joran played a major role in Natalee's dissapearance but it was up to her to prove it? Isnt that illegal? Did KJ do anything about hearing that info?Dompig? The same guy who said JK2 were guilty as hell?Same guy who on 4 consecutive interviews told completely different things? Same guy who's brother in law help set up two innocent men and distract attention away from the real killers? Same brother in law who said he saw Natalee with cocaine?Dompig,Same guy who asked to block the search of the Van Der Sloot home and was accused by Judge Wit of obstructing justice? Isnt he related to the Kalpoes also?
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7. What do you think about this Dutch documentary of Netwerk (aired on July 5th 2007) about the case?
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Thats not a dutch documenatry..Arent those people from Aruba lying about the case and friends of the Van Der Sloots? Isn't that Julia Renfro,AngelaM and Rene'e Guilen?Everything in here is a complete lie!! These people really should be in prison for lying,slandering and obstructing a murder investigation..What they are doing to a victim and her family is criminal..I guess people will do anything for moneySome people may just be plain evil.
I'm just curious. I hope you or SM have some answers on my questions. Thanks in advance
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Your welcome..I hope I dont come off rough and believe me I have a ton more to say..I am tired and it's late and this awful campaign and lies have been going on for 32 months now..I hope this answered your questions. I was honest and I hope you are the same.
Now I go to sleep![]()
I hopefully will read you answer later
this is really unbelievable!!!quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 06:07 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Like that poster was trying to tell you,the OM kept asking Natalee's Family if she had seizures just a few days after she dissapeared..She never ever had any history of that and the Family thought it was strange the Aruban Authorities kept asking them that!! We all saw in Joran's Confession with De Vries he said the same thing and he acted out her shaking violently before she died..I am telling you Joran confessed back in June 2005 and this was all covered up!!
Hi Klummie!! Everything I say I can back up!! I wouldn't be here if I couldn't and I will provide as much evidence as I can that is real and can be proven to a degree here on the internet..For some reason I get the feeling that I may never be able to prove anything to you? Please let me know now before I waste my time with you. I don't like conspiracy theories at all trust me..You have got to be kidding me? Natalee pregnant by her stepdad?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:43 schreef Klummie het volgende:
[..]
Did Joran also had something to do with 9-11?![]()
I like ur paranoia, u r telling stories that r interesting to read but they don't contain any evidence, just another conspiracy theory. Pity it seems like u start to beleive it.
I did not ead the enitre topic but have u also looked at the stories about natalee being abused by her stepfather and maybe was even pregnant from him?
And far as i'm concerned also that story is just a theory without any proof. Just like every other story about this case.
I don't like joran, he's scum just like a lot of american and dutch teenage boys and me bush, but without evidence, he is already convicted by 'the people' . Totally disgusting.
From Jug Twitty on SM Radio 2-6-08quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:58 schreef Caesu het volgende:
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this is really unbelievable!!!
joran MUST have told them.
i suspect the were trying to make it into a 'kind of' natural death.
but somehow that didn't work. because of course more happened to natalee, that's why she needed to be disposed of.
but that's already established.
but this is proof that the knew what happened right from the beginning.
Well the cover up theory is of course a "conspiracy theory" in the actual meaning of the word but I understand what you mean. Labeling it "just another conspiracy theory" is just a easy way to dismiss and discredit it without actually having to give any arguments. And dismissing it a a conspiracy theory and then bringing up the blatant disinfo about Natalee being abused by her stepfather? Talk about conspiracies.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:01 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Hi Klummie!! Everything I say I can back up!! I wouldn't be here if I couldn't and I will provide as much evidence as I can that is real and can be proven to a degree here on the internet..For some reason I get the feeling that I may never be able to prove anything to you? Please let me know now before I waste my time with you. I don't like conspiracy theories at all trust me..
So you dont acknowledge the law as it is in this present form, therefore you will get your way, even outside of the system?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:21 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
The principle reason for it was to put pressure on "the authorities" to put their weight behind solving the case. Making them choose between covering up for the perpetrators or the economy of Aruba. If its apparently a game of interests, not one of justice, then ok lets play the game of interests and see when the declining tourism becomes a factor.![]()
I can.quote:I really cant condemn Beth, the family and the people around them for starting this campaign against Aruba (and the Netherlands).
Why would she damage a whole country, just because she had a feeling that injustice was done?quote:Beth is a mother fighting for her child, she's going to use whatever means she's got.
She has the same options as everybody else; the criminal justice departement. She has no other privileges beyond these.quote:She didnt have a whole lot of options either. Put pressure on "the powers that be" by hitting them in the purse. Maybe it was even hoped the people of Aruba themselves would start demanding a resolution.
True.quote:I do think that people like Doctor "I edit creatively" Phil and Bill "the Dutch have sex breaks during work" O'Reilly where way off. But then again, integrity and television is mostly an oxymoron anyway.
I agree. These investigations that people do are mostly based on blurs of stories, mixed together with some vague statements from people that are acclaimed to be in on the conspiracy.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:43 schreef Klummie het volgende:
[..]
Did Joran also had something to do with 9-11?![]()
I like ur paranoia, u r telling stories that r interesting to read but they don't contain any evidence, just another conspiracy theory. Pity it seems like u start to beleive it.
I did not ead the enitre topic but have u also looked at the stories about natalee being abused by her stepfather and maybe was even pregnant from him?
And far as i'm concerned also that story is just a theory without any proof. Just like every other story about this case.
I don't like joran, he's scum just like a lot of american and dutch teenage boys and me bush, but without evidence, he is already convicted by 'the people' . Totally disgusting.
Well, without any real hard evidence backing any story up, it is still just another conspiracy story imo.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:31 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
Well the cover up theory is of course a "conspiracy theory" in the actual meaning of the word but I understand what you mean. Labeling it "just another conspiracy theory" is just a easy way to dismiss and discredit it without actually having to give any arguments. And dismissing it a a conspiracy theory and then bringing up the blatant disinfo about Natalee being abused by her stepfather? Talk about conspiracies.
For what I know about investigations (I have talked to people doing investigations on regular basis, e.g. police work), they start by getting as much information about the victim, the personal surroundings and the environment he/she lives in.quote:I would like to hear Klummies explanation for why the OM did research a family history of seizures right in the beginning.
In time If you are being honest I will prove everything to you. These are hardly stories I posted and I consider much of it fact..You should give me a chance.. All the evidence matches up that I speak of..Believe me,Natalee's parents have zero reason to lie about anything. The statements of Aruban officilas and suspects are important because it proves they are lying..You can't dispute that. You can't argue with what came out of there mouth in the newspapers and on TV and then told something totally different or the facts prove otherwise. I am not here to BS anyone at all,I have better things to do with my time..quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
I agree. These investigations that people do are mostly based on blurs of stories, mixed together with some vague statements from people that are acclaimed to be in on the conspiracy.
I find that hard to believe, and like to remain critical against these stories, except that if you do ever critize these people, you are immediately accused of being 'anti-Holloway' or some other stereotype of person. That really gives the whole discussion an personal twist that is unnessecary imo.
If Beth or anyone else has broken the law then they should be prosecuted. I dont think she has. Now you may morally condemn a boycott campaign, thats fine, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. Mine is that I dont hold it against her. On the contrary, her fighting spirit makes her admirable imo. And what other options did she have in your opinion? With all the corruption and crookedness going on? She had the media and public opinion and has used it for her cause. Good for her!quote:
As they would say in the Matrix; 'You believe want you want to believe'.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:46 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
In time If you are being honest I will prove everything to you. These are hardly stories I posted and I consider much of it fact..You should give me a chance.. All the evidence matches up that I speak of..Believe me,Natalee's parents have zero reason to lie about anything. The statements of Aruban officilas and suspects are important because it proves they are lying..You can't dispute that. You can't argue with what came out of there mouth in the newspapers and on TV and then told something totally different or the facts prove otherwise. I am not here to BS anyone at all,I have better things to do with my time..
You are absolutely right about this. Except I don`t find it very good that one person can damage a whole island/country for trying to get the alledged truth. In the process, a lot of innocent people are hurt, by both Beth and Joran imo.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:47 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
If Beth or anyone else has broken the law then they should be prosecuted. I dont think she has. Now you may morally condemn a boycott campaign, thats fine, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. Mine is that I dont hold it against her. On the contrary, her fighting spirit makes her admirable imo. And what other options did she have in your opinion? With all the corruption and crookedness going on? She had the media and public opinion and has used it for her cause. Good for her!
Like I already stated I do not work for the Aruban Police Dept or KLPD..I don't have access to the dossier that they have refused to show the Family of Natalee. I have done everything possible on my end to solve this case and doing research..It's up to you if you want to believe the pain staking research done by many. I can't prove to you anything if you aren't willing to listen. I didn't come here to argue,I simply came here to share information in hopes of helping put together the final pieces of this puzzle.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:50 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
As they would say in the Matrix; 'You believe want you want to believe'.
Interesting, if you are talking about psychical evidence, in what form are we talking about? Do you have tapes/recordings of the claims that are made? Have you been in Aruba yourself? Or did you collect evidence from other sites/sources?
Yes well it is a question of ethics or morality. Would I have done the same? In a second. You said she doesnt have any special privileges. I think it could be argued that parents of missing children, most likely victims of a crime in that respect do have certain privileges. They are "allowed" a bit more to get answers - from a moral point of view. Besides, when it comes to it who really damaged the image of Aruba?quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:52 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
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You are absolutely right about this. Except I don`t find it very good that one person can damage a whole island/country for trying to get the truth. In the process, a lot of innocent people are hurt, by both Beth and Joran imo.
I`m not critizing your work, in the contrary. The police dossiers are always confidential, no family or victim ever gets access to that, thats standard protocol (in spite of what you see on the tv-series where it is common)quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:59 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Like I already stated I do not work for the Aruban Police Dept or KLPD..I don't have access to the dossier that they have refused to show the Family of Natalee. I have done everything possible on my end to solve this case and doing research..It's up to you if you want to believe the pain staking research done by many. I can't prove to you anything if you aren't willing to listen. I didn't come here to argue,I simply came here to share information in hopes of helping put together the final pieces of this puzzle.
Well, this is a whole new discussion point and I do not think it should be in this topicquote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:03 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
Yes well it is a question of ethics or morality. Would I have done the same? In a second. You said she doesnt have any special privileges. I think it could be argued that parents of missing children, most likely victims of a crime in that respect do have certain privileges. They are "allowed" a bit more to get answers - from a moral point of view. Besides, when it comes to it who really damaged the image of Aruba?
if beth didn't organise such a campaign to find what happened to her daughter but instead just waited in Alabma for Aruba to solve this.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
[..]
I agree. These investigations that people do are mostly based on blurs of stories, mixed together with some vague statements from people that are acclaimed to be in on the conspiracy.
I find that hard to believe, and like to remain critical against these stories, except that if you do ever critize these people, you are immediately accused of being 'anti-Holloway' or some other stereotype of person. That really gives the whole discussion an personal twist that is unnessecary imo.
Misschien heeft Joran er iets over gezegd dat ze eerder in de avond zoiets had, of hebben haar vriendinnen zoiets gezegd...het is redelijk standaard dat ze zulke dingen vragen hoor, alleen vragen ze het meestal maar 1 keer.quote:Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:04 schreef Caesu het volgende:
de stiefvader zegt hier in dit radioprogramma dat een paar dagen na natalee's verdwijning de politie hem vele keren vroeg of natalee weleens epileptische aanvallen had gehad. jug twitty onkende dit en begreep maar niet waarom ze dat vroegen. wat had dit met de zaak te maken?
Of Joran heeft deze tapes ook geluisterd en verspreid desinformatie, in lijn met deze tapes.quote:nu in de tapes van peter r. de vries vertelden en laat joran zien hoe natalee zat te shaken en te trillen.
dit moet joran dus al vanaf het begin aan de politie hebben verteld!!!
Zoals ik al zei; standaard protocol, behalve het herhaaldelijk vragen.quote:anders vragen ze het niet herhaaldelijk aan jug twitty toch terwijl hij zegt dat natalee dit nooit gehad heeft?
hoe komen ze daar anders bij?
Dat is een snelle conclusie en wat veronderstellingen, daar waag ik me niet aan.quote:joran heeft dus al meteen begin juni 2005 bekend.
waarschijnlijk probeerde de politie er zo een natuurlijke dood van te maken zodat het geen ernstige zaak was die toerisme kon schaden.
maar dit lukte allemaal niet want het was geen natuurlijke dood - duidelijk aan het lichaam te zien, daarom moest het gedumpt worden.
Mwah. Zo cruciaal is het niet, het is echter vreemd dat er herhaaldelijk word gevraagd over deze ziekte. Wat de man echter niet zegt; hebben ze naar meer ziektes gevraagd, en vroeg dezelfde persoon meerdere malen dezelfde vraag?quote:luister maar naar het radioprogramma, we hebben ook naar joran geluisterd afgelopen zondag.
dit is cruciaal imo.
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