Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) #3

Van die eerderaangehaalde site:

The Area Has A Rich Jewish History As An Early Trading Center

Dutch Jews settled in Surinam in 1643. They established the trading routes for the sugar cane, coffee, chocolate, and slavery trades. Curacao's white population, and plantation elite, were 50% Jewish.
.

Moet ik eigenlijk wel verdergaan. .

*back*

ff op herhaling want ik mocht niks meer toevoegen. :

quote:

I told I saw some young American girls drunk last week, screaming around the terraces of some restaurants and thought they should have a liitle self responsibility too...

So what ??? They ask for it ???? or what... ?????


BTW : netjes gedaan harajuku

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:10 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
ff op herhaling want ik mocht niks meer toevoegen. :
[..]

So what ??? They ask for it ???? or what... ?????


BTW : netjes gedaan harajuku

That's not what he's saying

Could we please stay on topic this time?

We are not discussing other websites, other cultures, other cases and theories about other cases etc. This topic was meant for the Holloway case and the information surrounding it.

Maybe it would be better to take this thread back to BNW?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:14 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

Maybe it would be better to take this thread back to BNW?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:16 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Well I dont like the thread to be ruined because its in JOR now. Use some other topic if you want to talk about all the other stuff, thats not to much to ask.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:14 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
Could we please stay on topic this time?

We are not discussing other websites, other cultures, other cases and theories about other cases etc. This topic was meant for the Holloway case and the information surrounding it.

Maybe it would be better to take this thread back to BNW?

Why. This is about Joran. Joran is world news. I think this topic is in the right subfora now

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:13 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

That's not what he's saying

Oké maybe I 'm wrong. In that case I 'm sorry, but that's how it sounds to me

Maybe he means to say that these girl's do get drunk and behave a bit wildly ? But what about the behaving more responsible part ?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:20 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

Oké maybe I 'm wrong. In that case I 'm sorry, but that's how it sounds to me

Maybe he means to say that these girl's do get drunk and behave a bit wildly ? But what about the behaving more responsible part ?

Uit het vorige topic mijn post:
Then again,
warn your kids, give them proper know how how
the WORLD is working before sending them off on a holiday MILES away from home!
I simply refuse to believe that parents in america are really so ignorant to believe that their children don't have a good time on holiday and for some kids is having a good time having booze and sex and not on purpose, just because..
Our world isn't Disneyland, as a parent you should inform your child of the risks and dangers in the world.
And american parents dó know how kids are...why send them off on a holiday far far away?
That's safer, so no neighbour can judge your child..
And they know it, parents around the world are pretty much the same.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:20 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

Why. This is about Joran. Joran is world news. I think this topic is in the right subfora now

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:19 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

Well I dont like the thread to be ruined because its in JOR now. Use some other topic if you want to talk about all the other stuff, thats not to much to ask.

All I'm asking (in general) is to stay ontopic ok?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:24 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]


[..]

All I'm asking (in general) is to stay ontopic ok?

We'll try, but you also know how topics sometimes wander off
And differences in culture is ontopic I think,
IF its possible that the;re rapegangs, or sexgangs, or free sex parties, whatever, is it highly possible that no american girl is going to say anything back home, they wre brought up that good girls don't do these things.. So they will keep silent.
AND an easy target for "beach"boys.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:32 schreef Triggershot het volgende:
Did i miss something, why are we speaking English?

O shit hebben we niet eens in de gaten.
Jongens we praten in het engels krijg nou wat!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:39 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

O shit hebben we niet eens in de gaten.
Jongens we praten in het engels krijg nou wat!

Help die jongen nou ff
Ik stelde gister the same stupid question.

Ok, I'll help:

Trigger, because!

quote:

IF its possible that the;re rapegangs, or sexgangs, or free sex parties, whatever, is it highly possible that no american girl is going to say anything back home, they wre brought up that good girls don't do these things.. So they will keep silent.
AND an easy target for "beach"boys.

agree

it's not wise to send young girls away on a holiday with no explicit warning of what might happen over there, and nobody that looks after them.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:50 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

[..]

Some kind of foreign media watching over us?

We have American/Canadian visitors in this topic so we think its polite to speak english.

Back ontopic

edit:foutje

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 17:38 schreef yvonne het volgende:
edit:foutje

What the hack is this???

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 17:12 schreef Triggershot het volgende:
Did this already come across?

Bill O'Reilly Willing to Go to Jail; Joran van der Sloot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYHNcRA6nhA

So Joran probably asked the steph-father if she had seizures.
This still goes with the outlines as Joran said in the hidden-camera shot.

The main question is, what caused the seizure, and how did it came in Natalee's system.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:14 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
Could we please stay on topic this time?

We are not discussing other websites, other cultures, other cases and theories about other cases etc. This topic was meant for the Holloway case and the information surrounding it.

Maybe it would be better to take this thread back to BNW?

We're still on track, buddy. Maybe the quoted web site sheds light on the deeper moral motivation of some of the scaredmonkeys bunch? The struggle of good (Natalee) against evil (the descendants of the Jewish settlers). I dunno.

http://judicial-inc.biz/Jo_Oran_va_der_sloot_jews.htm
Blijft bizar

http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:29 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

We'll try, but you also know how topics sometimes wander off
And differences in culture is ontopic I think,
IF its possible that the;re rapegangs, or sexgangs, or free sex parties, whatever, is it highly possible that no american girl is going to say anything back home, they wre brought up that good girls don't do these things.. So they will keep silent.
AND an easy target for "beach"boys.

Youre absolutely right. It is an related issue.

The fact that cases like these (Natalee) often make other girls come forward with their story proves your point I think. Though this happens everywhere, girls who have been molested or raped and dont report it or talk about it. Happens here as well.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 17:55 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Omg, they just keep going and going about the Jew thing. [ afbeelding ]. Seriously, wtf?

Are they trying to blame the jewish or what?

Look at the bottom of the page, you can find more jew related items..

Also look at the picture with this item:
There Must Be A Final Outcome

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 17:53 schreef yvonne het volgende:
http://judicial-inc.biz/Jo_Oran_va_der_sloot_jews.htm
Blijft bizar

http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm

quote:

Here is the real animal. A Dutch Jew, who has a checkered past, starting with an thirty year old incident at a Netherlands University. Paulas was a womanizer, and a gambler, who dragged Joran around like a toy. His wife, Anita was a bloated aging Jewess, who was in Holland with the two younger children. Earlier that week, he actually talked with the girls in the casino,

. .
Ik mag toch hopen dat onze vriend deze site toch een beetje links laat liggen... anders weet ik het niet hoor.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 17:45 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

We're still on track, buddy. Maybe the quoted web site sheds light on the deeper moral motivation of some of the scaredmonkeys bunch? The struggle of good (Natalee) against evil (the descendants of the Jewish settlers). I dunno.

No you dont know but that still doenst stop you from making suggestions.

But go right ahead. Its your favorite subject so have fun!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 17:55 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Omg, they just keep going and going about the Jew thing. [ afbeelding ]. Seriously, wtf?

Are they trying to blame the jewish or what?

my thoughts exactly

Can anyone tell me what the relationship is between that judicial-inc.biz and Scared Monkeys?

Why does paul van der sloot uses google to search on alcohol and drugs just after natalee disappeared

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 18:10 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
Can anyone tell me what the relationship is between that judicial-inc.biz and Scared Monkeys?

There is none, but its a nice way to derail the topic.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 18:10 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
Can anyone tell me what the relationship is between that judicial-inc.biz and Scared Monkeys?

None I presume.

Further:
Dutch Scum: The Murdering Van der sloots
Lowlife Dutch: The Van der sloots
Aruba Dirty Police

The Dutch Threesome of van der sloot, van der straaten and Jannsen and point man Jacobs have covered up the murder of Natalee Holloway to protect one of their own


Nice

http://arubadirtypolice.b(...)-van-der-sloots.html

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 17:44 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

So Joran probably asked the steph-father if she had seizures.
This still goes with the outlines as Joran said in the hidden-camera shot.

The main question is, what caused the seizure, and how did it came in Natalee's system.

To me it is more important whether the step-father has told this long before Joran talked about it. Or does he claims that he just remembered it when he saw the tape ?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 18:39 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

None I presume.

If there is no relation, why did they post that link then? .

quote:

Further:
Dutch Scum: The Murdering Van der sloots
Lowlife Dutch: The Van der sloots
Aruba Dirty Police

The Dutch Threesome of van der sloot, van der straaten and Jannsen and point man Jacobs have covered up the murder of Natalee Holloway to protect one of their own


Nice

http://arubadirtypolice.b(...)-van-der-sloots.html

And this is a web site reffered to by observer then?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:10 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

So what ??? They ask for it ???? or what... ?????

So what?
Although you may suppose that even a naked girl (like someone said on SM) should be unharmed, we all know that there are assholes all around the world, not only in Holland, the USA and/or on Aruba, that won't leave such a girl alone...

Alcohol makes you weak on all fronts and those assholes makes profit on that.
So my message to all youngsters is:
Be carefull with who you are dating in combination with alcohol or maybe even without alcohol.
Unfortunately, 1 + 1 = 2 for some guys...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 16:44 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

agree

it's not wise to send young girls away on a holiday with no explicit warning of what might happen over there, and nobody that looks after them.

Ok, we're talking about the same...
Sometimes it's hard to express myself correctly in English...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 19:34 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

So what?
Although you may suppose that even a naked girl (like someone said on SM) should be unharmed, we all know that there are assholes all around the world, not only in Holland, the USA and/or on Aruba, that won't leave such a girl alone...

Alcohol makes you weak on all fronts and those assholes makes profit on that.
So my message to all youngsters is:
Be carefull with who you are dating in combination with alcohol or maybe even without alcohol.
Unfortunately, 1 + 1 = 2 for some guys...

Not for me
Anduhhh.... you goes friendly over the tongue there

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 19:34 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

So what?
Although you may suppose that even a naked girl (like someone said on SM) should be unharmed, we all know that there are assholes all around the world, not only in Holland, the USA and/or on Aruba, that won't leave such a girl alone...

Alcohol makes you weak on all fronts and those assholes makes profit on that.
So my message to all youngsters is:
Be carefull with who you are dating in combination with alcohol or maybe even without alcohol.
Unfortunately, 1 + 1 = 2 for some guys...

You have a point

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 19:34 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

So what?
Although you may suppose that even a naked girl (like someone said on SM) should be unharmed, we all know that there are assholes all around the world, not only in Holland, the USA and/or on Aruba, that won't leave such a girl alone...

Alcohol makes you weak on all fronts and those assholes makes profit on that.
So my message to all youngsters is:
Be carefull with who you are dating in combination with alcohol or maybe even without alcohol.
Unfortunately, 1 + 1 = 2 for some guys...

Of course you're obviously right in making that warning... But making it here or anywhere else relating to Natalee Holloway might be a bit out of place. I don't think you're suggesting she was suicidal and I don't think you're suggesting she is responsible for her own death because she was behaving stupidly. You're not, are you?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 19:36 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

Sometimes it's hard to express myself correctly in English...

Same here

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 19:39 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
Of course you're obviously right in making that warning... But making it here or anywhere else relating to Natalee Holloway might be a bit out of place. I don't think you're suggesting she was suicidal and I don't think you're suggesting she is responsible for her own death because she was behaving stupidly. You're not, are you?

No, I'm definitly do not!!!

I said it in relation to other girls I saw last week on Aruba, drunk as hell, shouting on the terraces of restaurants and 'searching for some local company from boys'. At that time I thought about the Natalee Holloway-case in the way of: 'Don't let it happen again because of their own weakness at that time...'

Oftewel, maak niet de stomme fout door jezelf in een dusdanige positie te brengen dat je wel een hele makkelijke prooi wordt...

Ergens snap ik nog even niet, waarom iedereen de feiten van de 1e week na Natalee's verdwijning vergeten zijn, maar alleen afgaat op de bekentenis van een junk genaamd "Joran" (dat is hij immers na 2-3 jaar)

Tevens vraag ik mij deze ook af, dat als ik het forum van scaredmonkeys moet geloven, waarom
de "timeline" van Joran belangrijk voor iedereen blijft? Misschien is er wel een hele andere "timeline"
in deze, eentje die veel verder gaat dan die 2.5 uur (en nee, ik beweer niet dat Natalee nog leeft, nochtans
dat ze overleden is, dat is immers nog steeds de grote vraag naar mijn idee, het hoe of wat).

Dat er 1 (waarschijnlijk 2 of meer mensen) meer weten over wat er gebeurt is, daar ben ik 100% van
overtuigd. Inderdaad kan het niet anders meer dan dat Joran deze mensen beschermt (zelfs tegenover
Patrick van der Eem).

Deze mensen houden zich schuil en laten Joran er alleen voor staan.
Als deze mensen niets te verbergen hebben en het is Joran zijn schuld dit alles,
hadden ze allang dit naar buiten gebracht.
Ik bedoel hiermee, iedereen ziet Joran als hoofdverdachte nu (hij heeft alles gedaan toch,
Joran is de gewetenloze vent en de halve wereld zit achter hem aan nu...)

Zoals ik net stelde, Joran moet MINIMAAL 1 helper hebben gehad, waarom durft
die niet naar voren te komen? (immers, Joran is al bijna volledig schuldig verklaard)

Nou goed terugkomend op het begin van deze post, blijven een aantal vragen
onbeantwoord die zich afspeelde een aantal dagen tot 2 weken na Natalee's
verdwijning:

- Waarom gingen de schoolkameraadjes van Natalee die mee waren naar Aruba
meteen 's ochtends na de verdwijning terug op het vliegtuig naar de States?
- Ik neem aan dat Natalee zekers tegen 1 van haar schoolkameraadjes moet hebben
gezegd dat ze wegging met 3 (?) jongens, of dat zeker 1 van haar klasgenootjes dat
gezien moet hebben? (haar klasgenootjes zijn nooit ondervraagd in deze)
- Waarom was haar moeder Beth anderhalve dag na haar verdwijning op Aruba,
en claimde in volledige overtuiging dat Natalee was ontvoerd?
(ze heeft diverse posters over een ontvoering opgehangen op Aruba toen)
- Al het telefoonverkeer in Joran's timeline is gecontroleerd na Natalee's verdwijning,
geen verdachte telefoontjes gevonden, zelfs niet bij het Marriot Hotel.
- Echter in de vroege ochtenduurtjes (na Joran's timeline) zijn er wel 2 telefoontjes gemaakt
gemaakt via Natalee's haar mobieltje (bron; oud archief 2005 van scaredmonkeys)
- Natalee's moeder heeft de ochtend na Natalee's verdwijning (2005) heeft een telefoontje
gehad van ene Natalee (?), heel kort, dat alles goed was.
Dit was tevens toen de reden voor Beth om te geloven dat Natalee gekidnapt was daarna.
- De nacht dat Natalee verdween, in de 3 uur van Joran's timeline, is er van zijn vader's
creditcard 5000,-- euro opgenomen.
Pa lag toen in bed toch al en Joran was op dat moment met Natalee bezig (strand, overlijden,
vriend bellen en naar huis lopen toch? (wie had er in die "timeline" tijd om 5000,-- euro op te nemen
van Pa zijn creditcard en waarvoor, het was immers midden in de nacht)
- Er was toen 's ochtends van Natalee's creditcard (later werd gezegd dat het een groupscreditcard betrof
ofzo) geld opgenomen? (terwijl op dat moment haar klasgenootjes en begeleiding terugvlogen naar
The States)


Dit werd toen bekendgemaakt in de 1ste paar weken na Natalee's verdwijning.
Vraag ik mij af waarom hierover nu word gezwegen aan alle kanten...

Ik heb Joran's bekentenis meerdere malen bekeken, ergens zegt Joran nergens dat
ze overleden is als je goed luistert, of althans het kon, maar zou ook weer niet kunnen.
Niets dat hij haar vermoord heeft, hij weet niet eens of ze dood was, zegt hij.
Alleen "dat ze lag te trillen en daarna niets meer deed op strand" en hij "een vriend belde"
en dat ze haar samen in een boot hebben gelegd waarna die "vriend" Joran naar huis stuurde.

Ik vraag mij nog steeds af, waarom iedereen de 1ste feiten van de 1ste of 2e week vergeten zijn.
Ik vraag mij nog steeds af, waarom deze feiten nooit zijn onderzocht (haar klasgenoten moeten toch
weten met wie ze is meegegaan? kom op zeg!)

Ik zeg niet dat Natalee nog leeft, maar deze 1ste feitjes uit de eerste 2 weken zijn ook never goed
onderzocht als je het mij vraagt.
Feiten die iedereen vergeten lijkt te zijn ...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 19:45 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

No, I'm definitly do not!!!

I said it in relation to other girls I saw last week on Aruba, drunk as hell, shouting on the terraces of restaurants and 'searching for some local company from boys'. At that time I thought about the Natalee Holloway-case in the way of: 'Don't let it happen again because of their own weakness at that time...'

Oftewel, maak niet de stomme fout door jezelf in een dusdanige positie te brengen dat je wel een hele makkelijke prooi wordt...

so in a way you are supporting the boycot.
don't come to aruba, because you risk being dumped unconsicious in the ocean.

the natalee holloway is not a case on it's own.
more tourists died on aruba, but it was always blamed on an accident or suicide.

differrent in this case is that beth twitty started this media campaign.
only because of that it generated so much attention that peter r. de vries took up the case.
and now huge failures and a possible cover up are coming to light.

@ abcd-tje

De vriendinnen van Natalee hebben haar toch weg zien rijden en haar nog een paar keer gevraagd om uit te stappen?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 19:52 schreef Caesu het volgende:

so in a way you are supporting the boycot.
don't come to aruba, because you risk being dumped unconsicious in the ocean.

the natalee holloway is not a case on it's own.
more tourists died on aruba, but it was always blamed on an accident or suicide.

differrent in this case is that beth twitty started this media campaign.
only because of that it generated so much attention that peter r. de vries took up the case.
and now huge failures and a possible cover up are coming to light.

I don't know how you can think I support the boycot of Aruba, I'm not!!!!
I'm at Aruba right now and I never said 'Don't come to Aruba'...
Drunken girls and guys who are after those girls are everywhere around the world, not only at Aruba...

Be back tonight, I gonna enjoy myself on this island, not boycotting it...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 19:45 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

No, I'm definitly do not!!!

I said it in relation to other girls I saw last week on Aruba, drunk as hell, shouting on the terraces of restaurants and 'searching for some local company from boys'. At that time I thought about the Natalee Holloway-case in the way of: 'Don't let it happen again because of their own weakness at that time...'

Oftewel, maak niet de stomme fout door jezelf in een dusdanige positie te brengen dat je wel een hele makkelijke prooi wordt...

You said nothing wrong, except maybe that you said they were hypocrites. But then again, some of the posters on SM started badmouthing you in the first place. So own fault, fat bump!

Anyhoeee.... because you said as a joke here: Joran vd. Sloot, moordenaar, of gewoon een eng kereltje?

quote:

Yep, the family v. d. Ditch has hired me round here 3 weeks to investigaten

... they now think you had a special agenda and really has to investigate SM for Paul van der Sloot. Hilarious, isn't it?

Read and laugh....I did
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2574.440

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 18:39 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

To me it is more important whether the step-father has told this long before Joran talked about it. Or does he claims that he just remembered it when he saw the tape ?

this is a very important point in my opinion.
this could proof a cover up.
this could proof joran confessed already right after natalee's disappearance.

this is a message on SM from december 2007:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2463.msg319778#msg319778
"Jug said that the cops kept asking me if Natalee was epileptic...."

i reallly hope peter r. de vries or the OM in Aruba picks this up.

why did they keep asking jug twitty wether natalee had seizures, was epileptic????

jug twitty talks about it on yesterday's radio program:
http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/

he said natalee had no epileptic history, but they asked him again.

the police must have heard this from joran. THEY KNEW ALL RIGHT FROM THE START!

I 'd be more impressed if Jug in 2005 had mentioned that Joran himself also had asked him about it.

If you are allright in this case, and scaredmonkeys is ... then there is no "timeline" of the
3 hours in wich Natalee supposed to die....
Then there is a coverup wichs involved the whole gvt. of Aruba of probably Natalee's her death ...
and not only Joran ...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:14 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
I 'd be more impressed if Jug in 2005 had mentioned that Joran himself also had asked him about it.

well, that's wat greta van susteren said on fox.
but there should be police records about the questioning of jug twitty.
i hope this gets looked into.
it not only supports joran's confession in patrick's car, but also the cover up.

quote:

What are you on? The only thing he is saying is that the Hollowaycase is all about girls, alcohol and Aruba. The whole fucking world knows that and yet there are still drunk girls screaming for local boys. I think he finds it hard to believe that even after all this girls are still acting that stupid in Aruba.

Girls will be girls

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:17 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

What are you on? The only thing he is saying is that the Hollowaycase is all about girls, alcohol and Aruba. The whole fucking world knows that and yet there are still drunk girls screaming for local boys. I think he finds it hard to believe that even after all this girls are still acting that stupid in Aruba.

it's about more than that. the whole world knows that aruba made a big mess of the investigation.
just watch the earlier peter r. de vries program of 2006.
aruba tried to cover up because they don't want it to hurt their economy.
but the cover up botched big time because Beth wouldn't let go and it backfired.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:18 schreef Caesu het volgende:

[..]

well, that's wat greta van susteren said on fox.
but there should be police records about the questioning of jug twitty.
i hope this gets looked into.
it not only supports joran's confession in patrick's car, but also the cover up.

Well, im afraid that they are going only after Joran, Joran must confess, he is gonna
be the "one who did it" and the rest stays clean.
(Shango predicted this)

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:24 schreef Caesu het volgende:

[..]

it's about more than that. the whole world knows that aruba made a big mess of the investigation.

So what ? This could happen almost anywhere around the world But I have to admit : it's probably worse on places like that island. Because it 's small and there are n't that many people.

I've been reading the posts with a lot of interest and I'd like to add a small comment as well.

I'm not sure who of you ever used cocaine in combination with alcohol, but my experience is that you actually get a lot more sober when you use cocaine after alcohol. You're mind really seems to clear up and you don't seem to be impacted by the alcohol that much anymore.

So whatever Natalee used, I doubt it to be cocaine.

[ Bericht 3% gewijzigd door Herrie82 op 06-02-2008 20:55:29 ]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:29 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

So what ? This could happen almost anywhere around the world But I have to admit : it's probably worse on places like that island. Because it 's small and there are n't that many people.

En gelukkig maken ze in amerika nooit fouten

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:44 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

En gelukkig maken ze in amerika nooit fouten

Whehe d'r word immers overal geblunderd en vriendjes politiek bedreven. Daar zijn genoeg gevallen van bekend.....

Hello Everyone:)

Someone was asking for a timeline in the other thread..This is the best one I know of..

http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

The CrackHouse Theory
We have prepared a fanciful essay on what might be the real story. It is a good fictional tale,
but one which might explain the mystery to some. This is an example of wild speculation.


The Crack House Theory
The crackhouse theory is based on early statements from the police, and later, from others, that Natalee "may have ended up in a crackhouse" and that she "would show up in a couple of days."

This story (which, of course, as far as any one knows, is entirely fictional) begins at around 2:00 am when Joran and Natalee are dropped off by Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe at the Marriott beach area. Perhaps, Natalee told them while driving around that she wanted to go to a crack house (possibly one which she had already visited on a previous night). " Hey," maybe she says, "I want to go to that drug house where we went the other night, that was fun."

Some stories have circulated that Natalee had not even spent a single night in her own hotel room, and while that might be explained away other ways (visiting other girls' rooms), it is probable that she might have been quite an active "party girl" during her stay (lots of other young tourist girls go "wild" on these Aruba trips). Now, maybe she was looking for one last wild time before departure the next morning.

Crack houses are well known
The crack houses are such an institution in Aruba, that someone like Mickey John (one of the arrested security guards) just mentioned it casually in his interviews after being released from jail, You may have noticed that no reporters even reacted to his statement with follow up questions saying, "Crack house? Are you kidding, here in Aruba? Where are they?" In addition, the superintendent of police himself mentioned, very early in the case, that they had "checked several of the crack houses," saying this very odd, very alarming information (at least, to most people from suburban America), in about the same casual style as someone might say, "We checked several of the Starbuck's coffeshops."

The police chief, by his casualness, also demonstrated how commonplace it is for tourists to go there, when he didn't follow up on that by announcing , "We are bringing all of those crack house people in for intensive questioning." He just left it at "checking to see" if she was there (like you might call a coffee shop to see if one of your friends had stopped by earlier). So, we know that crack houses are around and that they are readily accessible to those who know where they are and that they are not a surprise to average guys, like local security guards, or regarded as out of the ordinary by the police. These are businesses with one requirement the same as any legal business; they must have customers to stay in business. So, since they do exist, we can assume that lots of people must know all about them.

Just providing "the ride"
The Kalpoe brothers that evening were, most likely, merely providing transportation. They would have known and respected that Natalee was Joran's project (that is the way guys work it, when one guy has a chance to have a sexual liaison, buddies don't crowd another guy's action) , so they probably didn't participate any further than letting them off there. However, they most likely were aware of Joran's and Natalee's intended destination. Guys talk to each other about what they are doing to have fun.

This theory postulates that this would have been a particular crack house, which they, not only, all knew about, but it would have been one which would have to have been within walking distance of that Marriott beach drop-off point. Logic might dictate that if there is such a place within walking distance, it would be a good place to start the investigation. The Kalpoes (and many other people on the island) could most likely take you right to it.

Just something fun to do
So, possibly Joran took Natalee there. We also know something Joran knew. He knew that he had exams later that morning and he might even have thought that this excursion would have even been a good experience for him with those tests coming in a matter of hours, because crack (or even powdered coke) would make him wide awake for his examinations. So it is easy to picture Joran considering the suggestion of a little crack smoking and thinking that it sounded ok to him. Evidently, rumor has it, these places also keep other drugs, like the best Amsterdam pot and hash. Plus, it is a "safe" place to do them. Unlike the way a lot of tourists arrive in Aruba believing, drugs are not legal, just plentiful. Like all drug operations in Aruba these places are said to be run by a ruthless South American crime cartel. While that may not be verifiable, we know they are certainly managed by very unsavory underworld characters, who are not people to be trifled with by the regular citizenry.

At the crack house, it is easy to assume that both Joran and Natalee would have smoked some crack, perhaps along with some other drugs. It is also possible that Natalee also would have done some smack (heroin) or maybe some kind of narcotic sedative like Dilaudid (common form of pharmaceutical morphine), because she wanted to be relaxed for the morning flight.

Joran had to leave
Now after a while, it makes sense that Joran would have been saying, "I have to get home and get ready for school." Maybe then is when he text messages Deepak about coming to get them. But, that plan might have changed (maybe while the call was being made) because, it seems reasonable that one of the crack house coordinators would have said, "No need for you to have someone go to that trouble, I have my car here. I will be happy to drop you both off." Joran then would have then done the text message back to Deepak that he got a ride.

Assuming all was well
Now, here is where the mystery theory develops and really begins to fit the stories, or alibis, that Joran told. The crack house man (he could have been just a lower echelon driver) might have dropped off Joran first at Joran's house, telling Joran that he "will take Natalee on to the Holiday Inn." That would have sounded fine with Joran, he would have been home and he wouldn't have to be concerned anymore about Natalee's situation. He would have then text messaged Deepak that he "is home." So, we can now visualize the car departing with Natalee riding with the crack house guy to what she thinks is her hotel. Joran would have gone to bed, also assuming that Natalee was indeed being dropped off at the Holiday Inn.

At school the next morning
When morning arrived, Joran would have routinely headed off to school, all the time assuming that everything had worked out ok. He would not have known anything was amiss until later in the day, when there was some of the publicity starting about a missing teen. So, when he is first at school, it is easy to understand him telling several of his buddies that he had sex with that girl they saw him with the night before at the Excelsior Casino and at Carlos 'n Charlies. The story is now falling well into place fitting rumors we have heard. When the publicity starts, his headmaster calls him in and tells him to stop talking about Natalee, because she has missed her flight.

At this point, Joran would then have contacted the Kalpoe brothers and said, "let's get our stories straight." They all would have known they could not mention anything about the crack house, because of the fear of reprisals from the very dangerous criminal cartel who runs the crack house and, of course, Joran would have had to tell his parents and school officials that he had visited such a place. If this is the truth, it is easy to see someone wanting to keep it quiet.

Creating the cover story
So, they would then substitute the story that instead of them dropping Joran and Natalee at the Marriott beach area (which they assume everyone would know is close by that crack house), they take the very story of what they assume was the the crack house driver's experience and tell that as their own. At that point, as far as they know that is most likely not the truth, since Natalee isn't showing up, but they imagine that, either she went back to that crack house later (after being dropped off) or that she returned to the crack house with the driver. Either way, they just assume that she will show up later that evening. It is not hard to believe that might have had this experience with other tourist girls a time or two (even the police said later that they know this does happen).

Telling the first version
At 1:00 AM (now Tuesday) a group of Alabama men (parents of other students) along with Jug and Beth Twitty and with a couple of Aruba cops (and peculiarly, also a United States DEA agent, who they say just happened to be at the hotel) show up at Joran's house. This is the first time Paulus has heard anything about it. The people are saying, "My daughter missed her flight and we know that Joran was the last person seen with her." They are demanding, " Where is my daughter?" After Joran shows up, Joran tells his "dropped her off at the Holiday Inn story." Plus, a local who was there (he owns a cellphone company), Charles Croes, tells in a tv interview that Joran volunteers to help anyway he can. Unfortunately, the Alabama men start to get loud and boisterous and demand to know where Natalee is. They at this point most likely think that Natalee and Joran are merely having a romantic tryst and that Natalee is just staying over and they are concerned about her throwing away her career plans for a summer fling. Paulus is completely surprised and shocked by their behavior and so taken aback that this is the reason he tells his son to "say nothing." He doesn't know what his son has done, but he wants to find out and advise him later after everyone has gone. Of course, even in private, Joran would have still told Paulus the same "dropped Natalee off at the Holiday Inn" story, earlier concocted with the Kalpoe brothers. . Paulus would have been satisfied with that, but being an attorney, he would have been cautious in the light of the now rampaging Twittys and therefore advised his son and the Kalpoes to keep a low profile since a girl was missing and that is what a lawyer would tell anyone.

Possibly a horrific irony
Here is could have been a horribly ironic circumstance. When the Alabama group showed up with the police at Joran's house, it is possible that Natalee was still alive back at the crack house, maybe still not yet out of her a drugged state, and the drug guys were patiently waiting for her to come down enough to just be straight enough to return to her hotel. From the way people talked, a two day come down was not that uncommon. A worse case scenario would have been that she might have been being used for the pleasure of visiting drug cartel bosses (although this would be not very plausible). In either situation, after she was "straight," they would have gotten her out of there alive (probably giving her a ride to the hotel). This was a scene that had repeated often (letting them sleep it off) with many of these young tourist girls.

But now, when all the media starting paying attention and the tiny island of Aruba was swarming with cameras they knew they could not want their drug operation to be exposed. So, they might have concluded that Natalee had to disappear. Experienced at this, they would have then just killed her. But, there are many other variations of might have happened at the drug house as, for example, an accidental drug overdose, which occured after Joran left. In this explanation, when Joran was ready to go, Natalee couldn't, because she was just too "wasted," so, the drug employess might have given only Joran a ride home with Natalee staying behind, sleeping away in a comfortable bed. They might have fully intended that they would take Natalee to her hotel after she came down, but then she perhaps died accidently, maybe just not waking up.

Left with a body
In either event, they would have been left with a body and most likely would have disposed of the body 100 miles or more out to sea, where they knew she would never be found (they are professionals at this). For decades have known how to make bodies disappear. Next, it seems logical that the crime cartel would have dismantled that crack house, removing all evidence. It would even make sense that someone, who would not attract attention, is now living at that location, perhaps a nice family with several kids and a few dogs.

A story changes
How does the story change? When Kalpoe brothers are in custody they decide to tell the truth as far as their involvement, when they put a face on one of the security guards. If any of this complicated tale is true, the Kalpoes don't know really know what happened to Joran and Natalee after they left them, and if they were told by Joran, they can't mention "crack house," because they know that the crime cartel would kill them and they would become "disappeared ones" as well.

Next, when Joran finds out that the Kalpoe brothers are now telling the truth about where they dropped Natalee and Joran, he would have scrambled to change his story to that same one as well. At this point they would all now telling the truth as they know it. It would have even been the truth (although not the whole story) when they told Mickey John that they told their first lie because they figured Natalee would be turning up in a crack house (as other tourist girls have probably done before).

A lack of evidence
At this point, Paulus would have been just as puzzled about this as anyone and, even now, probably wonders like the rest of us, what really did happen. The Kalpoe brothers, and Joran, of course, by now have figured all the missing pieces out quite easily, but they know they can't tell any more than they have. They knew they will be released for lack of evidence, they all would have known how proficient the drug people would have been in getting rid of evidence and so they were confident (and still are) that the search would not produce anything and this will just remain, forever, an unsolved mystery.

What next?
So where should focus of the investigation be now? If any of this makes sense, it needs to turn to the crack houses (these are really just safe drug houses, very much like the opium dens of an earlier era). Why doesn't the team of private investigators (and undercover police) start paying visits to all of the crack houses (the ones which everyone knows are frequented by the college students on break)? Why don't they investigate the people who run those houses? Question the crime bosses who control and supply those houses. Of course, they won't do that. It is easier to focus on upstanding, generally law abiding citizens like Joran and his Dad and the Kalpoes. But, getting behind the scenes into the seamy side of the city? That is not so easy. The US has a Drug Enforcement team present on the island (remember there was an agent who went to the Van der Sloot home with the Twittys) so they are in a position to provide necessary infomation.

One way to start might be to interview all of the other kids on that trip and demand frank answers (like those which they have demanded from Joran and his Dad and the Kalpoes). They would find out that drugs were plentiful on the trip. I spoke to a university student today who told me that such drug availability is a large part of the appeal of a Caribbean vacation to college age kids today. We know that the appeal of the environment in Aruba (some of that stemming from misconceptions about the Dutch connections) at the time of the Mountain Brook trip was that it was very tolerant of drugs.

So, the next step is to find out about any drugs Natalee and others may have used. Then trace down where they came from in Aruba. Then find out where the "crack house," which Marty Johns so casually referred to, is located and any other "crack houses" in the area of the Marriott beach. Spread rewards for information around generously. But, the reality is we will most likely never know. Theories like this are disgarded as being too preposterous. The focus was only ever on the three guys. If that doesn't change and the investigation doesn't go deeper, then this case is over. There is no body, there is no evidence of a crime. Joran's and the Kalpoe brothers' story is frozen forever.


bron : scrux.com

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:52 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Hello Everyone:)

Someone was asking for a timeline in the other thread..This is the best one I know of..

http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

Good morning

Thanks for joining

hier danst ze in C&C met iemand

je ziet een arm om haar heen



[ Bericht 36% gewijzigd door johan555 op 06-02-2008 21:48:12 ]

misschien beheerd(e) die lorenzo wel zon crackhouse, is zijn huis niet op loopafstand van dat strand?

dit al bekend ?

"DianeB

Geplaatst: 06-02-2008 16:25:31

Dit volgende stond op het ABCnewsforum. Zal hij dan toch de waarheid verteld hebben alleen andere personages gebruikt: "Daury" 'most likely' the drug dealer Eduardo Boetie Naar as Joran refers to Boetie in the De Vries tapes. Internet: he is ex-convict (for drug trafficing), known drug dealer based on the beach in front of the Holiday Inn, where he rents banana funboats as a cover (all EXACTLY what Joran says Daury is on the confession tapes). He is also the brother in law of Officer Dompig (ABCnews forum) "

misschien heeft zijn vader boetie geholpen in een eerdere zaak, en dat daarom joran "nog iets te goed had"
die 5000$ zouden dan voo het "opruim" materiaal en omkopen kunnen zijn

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 21:16 schreef johan555 het volgende:
hier danst ze in C&C met iemand

je ziet een arm om haar heen

[ afbeelding ]

Perhaps because she went there to dance?

Hi,Yes SM did a front page article on the photo shopped pics you are talking about a long time ago.
-------------------------------------------------
http://scaredmonkeys.com/(...)atched-natalees-top/
IMAGES OF FABRIC

http://www.scaredmonkeys.(...)-with-the-duct-tape/

July 24, 2005

Last night the Scared Monkeys Discussion Board found an image of some material at the same site where the duct tape with the brown hairs were found. There coloring of the material bears a distinct resemblance to the the shirt Natalee was wearing the night that she disappeared.
Below you will find the images that we looked at, at this time due to the poor quality of the screen shots we are unable to say anything definitive, but the resemblance was enough to bring this to your attention.


WHERE IS THE FABRIC NOW?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.(...)boycott-in-of-aruba/

December 3, 2005

f. The disappearing fabric that matched Natalee’s blouse. FOX News videotaped a search around the time that duct tape with blond hair was found. The videotape showed a police officer climbing down some rocks at the edge of the ocean (near the Lighthouse), holding a piece of fabric in his right hand. This fabric appears in enhanced photos to match the fabric of the blouse Natalee was wearing when she disappeared. The Holloway family allegedly was told by the ALE it was fishnet and there is fishnet that color “all over the island.” This find was never mentioned again, although FOX continued to run the video. It is not known what has since happened to this fabric.

hier danst ze in C&C met iemand

je ziet een arm om haar heen

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 21:35 schreef salutem het volgende:
dit al bekend ?

"DianeB

Geplaatst: 06-02-2008 16:25:31

Dit volgende stond op het ABCnewsforum. Zal hij dan toch de waarheid verteld hebben alleen andere personages gebruikt: "Daury" 'most likely' the drug dealer Eduardo Boetie Naar as Joran refers to Boetie in the De Vries tapes. Internet: he is ex-convict (for drug trafficing), known drug dealer based on the beach in front of the Holiday Inn, where he rents banana funboats as a cover (all EXACTLY what Joran says Daury is on the confession tapes). He is also the brother in law of Officer Dompig (ABCnews forum) "

quote:

[b]Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 21:49

f. The disappearing fabric that matched Natalee’s blouse. FOX News videotaped a search around the time that duct tape with blond hair was found. The videotape showed a police officer climbing down some rocks at the edge of the ocean (near the Lighthouse), holding a piece of fabric in his right hand. This fabric appears in enhanced photos to match the fabric of the blouse Natalee was wearing when she disappeared. The Holloway family allegedly was told by the ALE it was fishnet and there is fishnet that color “all over the island.” This find was never mentioned again, although FOX continued to run the video. It is not known what has since happened to this fabric.

I find that very strange. I mean, where is that evidence now. They need to example it

er zijn 3 crackhouses in de buurt van het marriot

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:55 schreef johan555 het volgende:
The CrackHouse Theory
*-*
bron : scrux.com

IMO ... i think you are right!

It is indeed partly the only story why Joran is telling lies (altough he dont want to)
I guess... that your story comes very close to the reality of what happens that night.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:52 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Hello Everyone:)

Someone was asking for a timeline in the other thread..This is the best one I know of..

http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

Very interesting fact right at the beginning that I didnt know

quote:

On May 31, 2005 he (Joran) claimed that the 3 Main Murder Suspects (Joran, Satish Deepak) took Natalee to the “California lighthouse” area (while she was slipping in & out of consciousness), then, they all took Natalee to the “Holiday Inn” entrance where they dropped Natalee off at about 2:00 AM on May 30, 2005.

All 3 Main Murder Suspects also claimed that Natalees head was hit by the street pavement when she tripped getting out of their car

Now why would they include something like that their statement?

I think this comment explains it correctly:

quote:

We also need to go back to the boys original story that they took her back to the Holiday Inn and that she stumbled when she got out of the car and hit her head. Why the stumbling and hitting or her head part of the story unless they were getting ready to cover-up that Natalee's body, if found, might have a head wound?

http://www.katablog.com/day_blogs.cfm?d=25&m=3&y=2006

I can think of no other reason.

What did Joran say to Patrick?

Joran: "Ik denk dat ik heel veel mazzel heb gehad dat ze nooit gevonden is. Als ze haar vinden, ben ik de lul."

(I think I've been extremely lucky she has never been found. If they find her, I'm fried)

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 19:50 schreef abcd-tje het volgende:


- Waarom gingen de schoolkameraadjes van Natalee die mee waren naar Aruba
meteen 's ochtends na de verdwijning terug op het vliegtuig naar de States?
- Ik neem aan dat Natalee zekers tegen 1 van haar schoolkameraadjes moet hebben
gezegd dat ze wegging met 3 (?) jongens, of dat zeker 1 van haar klasgenootjes dat
gezien moet hebben? (haar klasgenootjes zijn nooit ondervraagd in deze)

Lahdidah!

That's strange...

It's also strange that they say 2 calls were made with natalee's mobile phone

I screen shopped previous images of the man sitting next to Natalee and it appears that his face was blocked out in those pics..I am reposting this all cause someone removed my links on the net.


-------------------------------------------------------
This video is clearer..It appears that Joran may be communicating with the man sitting next to Natalee and the girl next to him points to him afterwards and then Joran talks to her..The Man is definetly talking to Natalee holloway as well. Is Natalee pointing at Joran,asking if that is her son? Is it Paul Van Der Sloot? In his statements he said he left 2 hours earlier and at this time Joran says he was playing in another tournament.
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3922731&affil=wlne

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:06 schreef Sjweethet het volgende:
It's also strange that they say 2 calls were made with natalee's mobile phone

But, they can trace the call can't they?

what's the last picture explaining 777??

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:10 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Im lost?

Some people think that was Natalee's top they found. What do you think? All I know is it wasn't fishnet!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:11 schreef Sjweethet het volgende:
what's the last picture explaining 777??

The watch Paul is wearing could be the same as on the man in the video..

if a top was found it would be high classifated evidence right? isn't there any admitted rapport?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:11 schreef Sjweethet het volgende:
what's the last picture explaining 777??

Some people think the man in the casino has the same watch as PVDS.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:14 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

I thought she left her phone in her room?

yes i also read that, so that are obviously 2 different stories, but i have also read that her mother received a call the next morning in what she was saying "im ok" (dont know where anymore)

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:15 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Some people think the man in the casino has the same watch as PVDS.

isnt he wearing the watch @ the other hand
in the photos thats trying to compare

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:14 schreef Sjweethet het volgende:
if a top was found it would be high classifated evidence right? isn't there any admitted rapport?

We were told it was fishnet and it was never seen again. That is a terrible picture,the video is much clearer and looks much more like Natalee's top.MO

Official document

@observer777, i think you are right, no official record of this? Paul must have known natalee then, but he denies it?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:09 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

But, they can trace the call can't they?

Well, that happend at 30 may 2005 Qwea, they have proven of the 2 phonecalls from
Natalee's mobile, they never seems to traced them
Nobody speaks of this phonecalls anymore, although it was proven in 2005 that there were
made in the early morning of may 30 2005 those 2 phonecalls from Natalee's her mobile.

However, althought there is prove that there were made 2 calls from Natalee's phone, this issue
is never research, never is know to were those 2 calls made too ........

if they get rid of the body (and everything is a complicated cover-up plan), they would definitly would get rid of the top... im not so sure about this one

Official document


PROCES VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony Burke, respectively inspector and sergeant first class, with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the section Often Occurring Crime District 2, state the following.

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was: Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT, born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court) and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.

Before the interview the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT was informed that he was under no obligation to answer.

The suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT has asked if his council Mr. A. SWAEN could be present at this interview and this was also requested by his council. This request was denied. His statement in dutch was transcribed by us, the reporting officers and goes as follows:

“To you question what I can declare with regards to me being arrested as a suspect of accessory to murder, manslaughter and
robbing someone of their freedom with death as the result, I can state the following. I find this totally ridiculous and absurd.

To your question what level of ridiculousness this reaches, I can state the following. I am of the opinion that my arrest reaches the highest possible levels of ridiculousness and absurdity.

To your question whether I picked up Joran on the 30th of May 2005, in the early morning hours, I can state the following. I have previously stated that I had picked up Joran on Sunday May 29th at approximately 23.00 hours near Mc Donalds. Subsequently I woke up at that Monday morning at approximately 05.45 hours. In the hours between I had gone to sleep and I did not hear Joran leaving or hear him return home. 05.45 hours is the normal time for the alarm to go off and I wake up. The children I wake up at approximately 06.00 hours. I awakened Valentijn, Sebastian and Joran.

To your question whether it was difficult to wake up Joran on that Monday morning, I can state the following. It is always difficult
to wake up Joran.

To your question whether it was more difficult than usual to wake him up, I can state the following. I had not noticed anything special.

To your question whether Joran went to school on Monday May 30th 2005, I can state the following. I cannot precisely recollect
whether Joran went to school that day. It is possible that he did not go to school that day.

To your question whether Sebastian and Valentijn went to school that Monday, I can state the following. Yes, they got onto the bus and went to school because in the period that Anita was away they took the bus every day.

To your question whether I wait to see if they get on the bus, I can state following. Yes, I stay and watch.

To your question how it then is possible that I had not seen Joran get onto the bus, I can state the following. Of course I see the children get onto the bus and that also is true for Joran. But unlike Valentijn and Sebastian who went with the bus every day Joran didn't go with the bus once or twice during that period. But I do not remember exactly which days he did not go with the bus. It could be that it was that Monday. Most likely I informed the bus driver that Joran would not be going with the bus. A clue to the fact that Joran did not go to school that Monday could be that on Tuesday I insisted that he went to school that day.

To your question whether on the occasions that I informed the bus driver that Joran would not be going with the bus Joran stayed home or whether I drove him to school myself, I can state the following. I did bring Joran to a place at the open air cinema. He got onto the bus there. That was the first morning that Anita went to the Netherlands. I at that time did not inform the bus driver that Joran would not be going with the bus. Instead I was very angry with Valentijn and Sebastian for letting the bus drive off without Joran. Sebastian and Valentijn however where under the impression that Joran didn't need to go to school that day.

To your question when Anita left for the Netherlands, I can state the following. I cannot remember exactly but I think it was the Tuesday or Wednesday before that Monday the 30th of May that she departed for the Netherlands. Anita was in the Netherlands for seven or eight days.

To your question whether I picked up Joran during the period between May 30th 2005 and June 9th 2005, I can state the following. It is possible but I cannot remember whether I did. I did pick up Joran from school from time to time but whether it was in that time-period I cannot remember.

To your question if I tell you all the things I did on that Monday the 30th of May 2005, I can state the following. I went to work.
The exact time I cannot remember but I think it was approximately 08.00 hours. I can also remember that around 10.00 hours I went to the C.M.B. bank. There were long cues at the bank so I left without having made any transaction and went back to work. I left my workplace at approximately 15.00 hours. I arrived at the bank at approximately 15.30. I had gone to the C.M.B. bank that is situated in Noord.

To your question whether I went to the bank without stopping or going anywhere else, I can state the following. I at least cannot
remember having been anywhere else. I think I went directly to the bank. At the bank I talked to Ruth DIJKHOFF. At the bank I deposited the money that Joran said that he had won in the “Free Tournament in the Holiday Inn” on the 29th of May 2005. It was approximately 500 Aruban guilders. Joran had given me 100 guilders because he had taken over my place in the
tournament.

After depositing the money I went home. I cannot exactly remember what time it was when I got home. I think it was 16.15 hours. According to me both Rita and Joran where at home. Whether Valentijn and Sebastian where also there that Monday I cannot remember anymore because Valentijn and Sebastian quite often went over to a friends house during that time-period.

Whether I went with Joran to eat at a fast food restaurant that afternoon I cannot remember. I can only remember that while Anita was away I went and ate with him once. I don't think it is likely that we did that day because I left work at approximately 15.00 hours.

To your question what I did after 16.15 hours, I can state the following. I think I dropped of Joran off at the “Racquet Club” at
approximately 17.00 hours. I could have been later though. I cannot exactly remember anymore.

To your question whether I saw Joran enter the “Racquet Club”, I can state the following. If I drop off Joran he normally walks inside. As far as I can remember he did do that at this occasion too but I do not know for sure. I can also remember he had told me that he was going to enter the “Free Tournament” at the Wyndham. I had told him that he could always call me if he wanted to be picked up to go home. He said that he would do this or that he would hitch a ride home with someone.

To your question if I can remember what Joran had with him when I dropped him off at the “Racquet Club”, I can state the following. Every time that he goes to play tennis he has a sports bag with tennis equipment with him. I cannot visually play back in my own mind whether I actually saw him carrying the bag. Sometimes Joran just went to work out at the “Racquet Club”. On those occasions he would not have his tennis bag with him.

To your question on which days Joran followed tennis lessons, I can state the following. According to me he certainly has them on Monday. And there is one more day that he has lessons but I cannot remember what exact day that is. Occasionally we have a joint lesson with Jerry.

To your question whether we can ascertain whether I had dropped off Joran in order for him to go to a tennis lesson, I can state
the following. I took hm there to either follow a tennis lesson or to go to the gym. Whether he indeed took a tennis lesson or went to the gym I cannot say because after I had dropped him off, I went home.

To your question whether Joran on Monday May 30th 2005 hadn't been complaining about pain in his feet and legs and whether
he had told me that he would not take a tennis lesson, I can state the following. Joran occasionally has complaints like that. He sometimes also complains about back-aches. Whether he complained that Monday, I cannot remember.

To your question whether I can remember if Joran complained of pain in his feet or legs during the period from May 30th 2005 to
June 9th 2005, I can state the following. I can remember that between the time Anita went to the Netherlands and the time he was arrested Joran did complain about pain in his legs and feet. I cannot remember however if he specifically complained about that on Monday.

To your question whether I asked him what could have caused the pains, I can state the following. No, I did not ask him. He complained about these kinds of pains from time to time.

To your question whether I knew what the causes were of these pains, I can state the following. I assumed that they were general pains of being tired/sore. I had not attributed them to a specific reason.

To your question whether I subsequently went to the “Racquet Club” to pick up his sports bag that he left behind there, I can state the following. I cannot remember. To the best of my recollection I did not return to the “Racquet Club” after I dropped off Joran.

I am not 100% sure of that. But if I had gone back to then it would not have been to pick up the bag alone but also to bring Joran home. At approximately 18.00 on Monday May 30th 2005 I would have been home. I cannot remember anymore if I picked up Sebastian and Valentijn or whether they were dropped off at our home because during the time Anita was away there was not fixed structure to that. I think I did eat dinner with Valentijn and Sebastian.

Sebastian and Valentijn went to bed at their normal bedtime of approximately 21.00 hours. I myself turned in for the night at approximately 23.00 hours. Whether I at that moment checked to see if Joran was home I am not sure.

To your question whether I often checked to see if Joran was in, I can state the following. I do check that from time to time. But not always.

To your question why I, knowing that Joran was supposed to call me if he needed to be picked up, did not check to see if he was home, I can state the following. If I did not check whether he was home then that was because I at that moment in time did not think about that.

To your question whether I than would have called Joran to ask him with whom he would drive home, I can state the following. It could be that I called him but I do not remember whether I did. I of course call Joran regularly. With the question whether or not he needs a lift home. Whether that happened on Monday May 30th 2005, I cannot remember.

To your question what I did on May 31st 2005, I can state the following. Around 02.00 I was awakened by the barking of my dogs and Valentijn who had awakened before I woke up. I heard a lot of noise, I got dressed and walked to the gate. There I saw a police car and two police officers. There were also several other cars, among them a van and I think about 10 people or so. Most of these people turned out to be Americans but there were also a few Arubans, among other Charles CROES and two people with a cord around their necks. I think they were from a hotel. A police officer asked me if he could talk to me and he told me that a girl had gone missing and that my son had been seen with this girl. The group as a whole seemed agitated . One of the Americans told me that it was about a girl my son had met at “Carlos & Charlies”. I told him immediately that it could not have been my son because he had played in a “free tournament” at the Holiday Inn during the afternoon and that I had picked him up at 23.00 hours at “Mc Donalds”. I then went to Joran's apartment and to my surprise and to my anger he was not in his apartment. I then called him on his mobile phone. He immediately answered his phone. I asked him where he was and the told me he was at the “Wyndham”. That he was at the “Wyndham” did not surprise me at that moment. He was supposed to be playing in the “Free tournament” there. That could also be a clue that I indeed did not see him after I had dropped him off at the “Racquet Club”. I told him that people wanted to talk to him with regard to a girl that had gone missing and that I would come to where he was. I then got into the police-car and the whole group drove over to the “Wyndham”. I walked towards the casino that was locking up. I could not see Joran there and I again called him on his mobile phone. He answered and told me that he was at home now.

To your question whether I told Joran who were with me, I can state the following. I cannot remember whether I did.

A few people in the group showed the picture of the missing woman to several members of staff at the casino. At least one of the women said that she had seen the girl a few hours earlier in the company of a tall boy. Serious discussions took place but I suggested that we should go to my house again because that was where Joran had gone to.

To your question whether, in front of the casino, I had mistakenly thought someone was Joran and pointe him out, I can state the following. I cannot remember whether I did. Maybe I did see a tall boy and from a distance mistook him for Joran and walked into that direction.

I once again entered the police car and the whole group followed me to my house. When we arrived there I found Joran together with Deepak, leaning against the car. I asked Joran why he did not stay at the Wyndham and he said that he must have misunderstood me. He also told me that the neighbors had told him to turn the music down because they had complained. He also told me that he had been to the “Raddison”. According to me Charles CROES was the first person who started asking Joran questions. Joran said that he had met a girl at “Carlos & Charlies” and that he, Deepak and Satish had dropped her off at the Holiday Inn. Joran said that Sunday afternoon he had had met a girl at the Holiday Inn and that he had helped her when she was sitting at the poker table. The girl had lost $350 and he had helped her win back $150 (a few days later when Joran had seen a picture of Natalee and her friends in one of the free US newspapers, he said that it was the girl on the extreme right of that picture that he had helped win back the money. That girl was not Natalee). Natalee did belong to a group of American girls that had been pushing him to come over to “Carlos & Charlies”. According to Joran he told them that he couldn't go to “Carlos & Charlies” because he had to go to school the next day. He also told them that he, without my knowing about it, arranged to be picked up by Deepak around 24.00 hours and that he did go to “Carlos & Charlies”.In “Carlos & Charlies” the missing girl Natalee, invited him several times to come dancing with her. He told that he did dance with her and that she had asked him to take a so-called “Body-shot” off her. He also said that she wanted to go with him in the car and that they drove in circles around “Carlos & Charlies” for a few times and waived to some friends of Natalee. Natalee was absolutely sure she wanted to stay in the car. I saw that he then addressed a few of the Americans. He asked if Natalee's parents where among them. One of the people said he was Natalee's step-father. He asked if the step-father would please go away for a second and told the rest of the people that they had been kissing in the back seat and that he had fingered the girl.Joran also said that the girl wanted to see the sharks and that because of that they had gone to the north coast of the island even though Joran had told her that there were no sharks there. Joran also said that the girl had said that her mother was the sister of “Hitler” and that she said she wanted to go to Austria. He also said the girl had asked him if Deepak and Satish were his slaves because the parents of the girl owned a plantation and that black people worked there like slaves. I am not sure whether he said this to the Americans or to the police-officers in the car. There was uncertainty for a moment whether Joran and the group of people where talking about the same girl. I can remember another name was mentioned next to Natalee's name. I thought the other name was Kathleen. When Joran however was shown a picture of the girl, he said that it had been this girl that he had made out with. He recognised her especially by her eyes and the mouth. After Charles CROES had spoken Joran others started interrogating Joran. That did not always go very subtle. Joran was accused and inconsistencies in his story where pointed out to him. I at that moment in time though that those inconsistencies where futilities and that he was seriously pressured from several people. I told the Americans in the group to restrain themselves, and told them they did not have any jurisdiction here, and that they should act civil. I then addressed the police officers and told them they should take charge of the situation. I told Joran and Deepak that they should make their statements to the police-officers rather than to the Americans. At some point one of the Americans cursed out Deepak by calling him an “asshole”. I at that moment stated that they had gone too far and that Joran and Deepak should make no more statements to the Americans. One of the police officers indeed stepped in and said that this was no way to go forward. I said we should focus on finding the girl and not to insult people. I said to the Americans that they should realize they are in another country and they should act politely. One of the Americans suggested going to the “Light House” because according to Joran they had been there when they were driving around the girl. One of the police officers said that this was useless. I happened to agree with him. At that moment I wanted for Joran to go to his apartment and I wanted to return to bed. Joran however said that we should try our best to help and find this girl. One of the Americans suggested that we should go the Holiday Inn to take it further from there/view the situation. A little bit reluctantly I got back into the police car with Deepak and Joran. The police officers were also somewhat tired of the situation and said that the Americans should report the girl missing. We then drove to the police-station in Noord and the police-officers consulted with the watch-commander. They also changed cars. I understood that the watch-commander had no objections to the police-officers going to the Holiday Inn together with Deepak, Joran and myself. When we arrived at the Holiday Inn there was a dark coloured man there standing with folded arms who later introduced himself as WILLIAMS from the F.B.I. This man immediately took Joran separately and had a short talk with him. I also went over to WILLIAMS and asked him what his function was. Then he told me he was with the F.B.I. so I returned to the the police officers and asked them whether they knew that F.B.I. officers were present there. They told me they did not know anything about that. I briefly talked with a member of staff from the Holiday Inn who told me there was only one camera and that this camera was pointed in the direction of the front desk. I also understood it was not certain whether or not that camera was actually working. One of the police officers had a lengthy discussion with WILLIAMS in the back of the lobby. I understood from the officer that he had informed WILLIAMS of the existence of the so-called “Beach bums”. Deepak also told a girl behind the front desk that he had seen that a security guard dressed in black had walked over to the girl after they had dropped her off. The security guard had been in the possession of a “walkie talkie”. The girl behind the front desk said that it could not have been one of their security guards because they wear white shirts. There still was fierce discussion but one of the Americans wanted to shake my hand to express that he was sorry of having been so hurt full and agitated. I at that moment refused to shake that hand because I was still angry about their behaviour which prompted another American to say “talk about being civil”. A woman with long black hair was continuously talking on her mobile phone. I understood that she was informing the news media in the US to the fact that a girl had gone missing. I briefly talked to Charles CROES who had been driving the mother of the missing girl. He said that he didn't need to know anything more from Joran. He said that he had looked into Joran's eyes and understood from that

HERE THERE IS A SECTION MISSING

moment we got into the police car after I had shook every ones hands, all except the long black haired woman who was still on the phone. WILLIAMS told me that I should count on the fact they they would want to talk to Joran again. The mother of the girl by that time had already left. At least I did not see her anymore. We were dropped off home by the officers. It was starting to get light.

I woke up Valentijn and Sebastian and I also said to Joran that he had to go to school even though he wasn't in the mood to go. I know that I insisted that he should go. A reason for that might be that he had already not gone to school on Monday. I then left for work. I think it was approximately 7.30 hours when I called the headmaster of the International School. I had told him that Joran had not slept all night and asked for him to be understanding just in case Joran was feeling sleepy. About 8.30 hours I was called by one of the guards in the hall of the justice building and he told me that Jan van der Straten wanted to talk to me. I took Jan van der Straten up to my room and there Jan van der Straten asked me if I could pick up Joran from school and bring him over to the police-station in Bubali. Jan said that it was wisest to do this immediately. I called the headmaster and told him that I would be coming to pick up Joran. The headmaster told me that Joran was resting in what was called the doctors office and asked me at what time he should wake him up. I told him that I would be at the I.S.A. at approximately 10.00 hours. When I arrived at the I.S.A. Joran was already up. I then waited with Joran until the headmaster was free because he was in a meeting with the school counselor. We then briefly talked to the headmaster, at that time we talked about the fact that the girl had gone missing, that the girl had had a lot to drink and that Joran should have kept a closer eye on the girl and that he should have made sure that the girl safely had gone into the Holiday Inn. The headmaster and myself told Joran that he should have acted more responsibly. We then departed for the police station in Bubali where we arrived at approximately 11.00 hours. Jacobs and Kelly took down Joran's statement. Joran was speaking in Papiamentu and that was translated by the officers into Dutch. I was there when Joran made his statement. We made a few changes in the concept with regard to factualities instead of observations. At approximately 14.00 hours Joran signed his statement and we went to lunch in Mc Donalds or Wendy's, which of these fast food restaurants we ate I cannot remember anymore. Then we went home. Both of us were very tired because we had not slept a lot that night.

I cannot remember what I did when I got home. I think that Joran went to bed and that I worked a little in the garden and then started preparing dinner. I informed Anita about what had taken place. That night I went to bed early.

To your question what I did on June 1st 2005, I can state the following. That was the day Anita was supposed to come home from the Netherlands. According to me the alarm clock went off as usual at 05.45 hours and at 06.00 hours I woke up the boys and they all got onto the bus. According to me that day was a normal day. I cannot remember anything special about that day. I think I went to work as usual and got home at approximately 16.30 hours, we ate dinner as we normally did, I was at the computer and at approximately 20.00 hours we picked up Anita. I think that Sebastian came with me to pick up Anita.

To your question whether I had a talk on June 1st 2005 with Joran, Deepak and Satish about the case of the missing girl. I do not remember if this was on the 1st of June 2005. I did talk a lot with Deepak, Satish and Joran, from the moment they were interviewed as witnesses until they were arrested. We of course read the newspapers, saw the news and talked about it. I also was in almost daily contact with Jan van der STRATEN. I did not doubt the truthfulness of their story for one second. When we talked about the girl, we discussed what could happen if the girl would not re-appear. I was under the impression that the boys assumed that she would re-appear sooner or later. Af course we also discussed what if the girl did not re-appear. From what little information I got from Jan van der STRATEN, I got some hope that the girl was seen after she was dropped off at the Holiday Inn. He did not say this in so many words but I took that as an explanation as to why the boys weren't asked to give further statements to the police.

To your question when I had noticed, that boys were asking a lot about what would happen with missing girl would not re-appear or if she would be found dead, what would happen then, whether this did not make me wonder why they were asking this, I can state the following. According to me it was not the boys who brought this up, but I brought this up. I was usually the one who steered the conversation towards the girl.

Why did I steer the conversation towards the girl? I did this because I was getting worried. I was getting worried for the girl and also for the boys. Because of the fact that they had been the last to be seen with the girl they would no doubt come back to them. I however did not doubt the validity of their story for one moment.

Comment reporting officer: At 20.05 hours the assistent district attorney, inspector first class J.C. SAMBO informed the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT that he would be held for questioning at the police station in Noord on which the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT responded that he would resist the incarceration because it was a completely insane and absurd action.

Suspect finds it highly questionable that this is only happening to make his son make statements that are beside the truth. Suspect did remark that he is willing to tell us everything he remembers if this somehow gives clarity into the case of Natalee Holloway gone missing, but that this could best be done in the capacity of a witness.

To your question whether I spoke to the boys at home on Wednesday June 1st 2005 and about what we talked, I can state the following. I don't exactly remember anymore what days I spoke to the boys. I only know that I talked to the boys a lot. I did not want Joran to be out of the house for as long as the girl was still missing. Because of that a lot of Joran's friends, including Deepak and Satish came over to visit us. We then often talked aboutthe girl. We were following the reports in the newspapers, on the radio and on television.

To your question how it happened that I found a lawyer for Joran and the two Kalpoe brothers, I can state the following. Looking at the facts I had to take into consideration that Joran, Deepak and Satish could at some point become suspects. If that was the case I wanted the proces to go as smoothly as possible, in order for them to be released as soon as possible. Again, I still believed their story implicitly. If they already had lawyers no time would be waisted when they were arrested. The lawyer could be there very quickly, so that the questioning could being immediately and no time would be wasted. In reality I was trying to facilitate the process as much as possible.

You are telling me that I have stated that I believed the story but still took preparations with regard to a lawyer and I have explained them the entire procedure of being arrested and being detained, why? To this I can say the following. I have previously said that due to the fact that the boys could possibly be the last people who had been seen with the girl, this fact could be sufficient to cause them to be seen as suspects. As said before, I wanted to facilitate this process. Part of that was making sure the boys did not panic because they were unfamiliar with the procedure. I especially wanted to prevent that they would make statements that were untrue. In the situation they found themselves with a police and judicial apparatus that was under enormous pressure that was not unthinkable.

To your question why I would think they would panic if they told their story, the one I believed, or whether I had reasons to be suspicious of their story and whether I know more about the case than I, my son Joran, Deepak and Satish did not tell when they made their first witness statements, I can tell you the following. I have told you before that I believed the boys story, that I had no reasons to doubt it, I also did not get any clues that made me doubtful and thus I assumed that the statement they gave to the police were the correct ones. My fear was more in the desire to score of the police force. I was afraid that the boys would be entrapped/tricked into making a statement that was not correct. I have told them on more than one occasion that they should count themselves lucky that they were with the three of them and that the interviews should not be hard because they were telling the truth.

To your question as to how good a liar Joran is, I can tell you the following. In the past Joran lied. About money that he had stolen from us. We have talked about this extensively and it was also discussed at the youth psychologist Dr. XXX XXXXXX, with whom he had several talks about his growth into adulthood. I had the feeling he had made a clean breast of it/fresh start. I at least did not assume I had to doubt everything he said.

To your question what I now think after it came out that Joran is making untruthful after untruthful statement and what I can state about that, I can state the following. I can not make a judgement about this. What I have understood that Joran is the one who broke open the case.

To your question what I mean when I said that Joran broke open the case, I can state the following. Joran's lawyer has told me that it was Joran who changed his statement. Because of that the case is now broken open and now the truth can come out.

To your question whether Freddy ZEDAN came to our house out of his own accord or whether I had invited him, I can state the following. According to me Freddy phoned my wife after he had been questioned by the police. According to me he and his girlfriend came over to see my wife and he told what he had stated to the police. I was busy in the kitchen and did not hear everything Freddy was saying. Only at the end of the conversation I joined them. My wife and I were angry at Joran, because he did not tell the truth from the beginning. My wife planned to confront Joran with Freddy's statements. That night we were going to have a meeting with Mr. A. CARLO, this was a previously planned meeting. My wife called Freddy again and asked him if he could tell his story again to Joran's lawyer. At first he didn't want to come because he had an exam the very next day but in the end he and his parents came over. He then told the story he knew to Joran's lawyer. I am convinced that Mr. CARLO did this with the best intentions possible.

Comment reporting officers: At approximately 21.15 hours the interview of the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT was concluded in mutual understanding with the suspect. The suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT will be enabled to read the complete proces-verbaal and to make comments on it.

P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT

After the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT had read his statement, he stated to us that he would persist in it and signed it.

Of this, we, the reporting officers, on our oath of office, have made this proces-verbaal, closed and signed in Noord on June 23rd 2005.


The reporting officers


R.R. TROMP C.A. BURKE

Owner of the Holiday Inn,Excelsior Casino and Brickel Bay is a well known Mobster named Michael Posner. Many rumors say he met Natalee,he dissapeared after NH vanished and it is a fact he hired a PI out of Chicago named Ernie Rizzo after NH vanished. Why did he hire his own PI? He was extremely upset when the casino video was released to ABC News. Not much info is available on this person but we know he is a member of the mob and served 8 years in prison. Many rumors float that he may be involved in Natalee's dissapearance. It is known that Rudy Croes awarded this a criminal the right to run a casino and hotel in Aruba,It was about the same time PVDS was working for the Govt doing contracts.
Early on in the investigation, Jossy Mansur essentially called Mike Posner out for what he is, a lifelong criminal affiliated with the infamous Chicago Outfit. Jossy noted that Mike was released from prison on parole in 1992. http://i3.tinypic.com/16ggwuh.jpg.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=investigative&id=3936339
Aruban casino boss had ties to Chicago mob
Thursday, February 23, 2006 | 6:07 PM
The I-Team has learned that the casino where Holloway was last seen is operated by Chicagoan Michael Posner. The intelligence report on Posner lists him as a prominent member of the Chicago outfit for more than 40 years.

According to federal law enforcement, Michael Posner's most recent mob assignment was boss of illegal rackets in the north suburbs. Posner was convicted in 1987 of threatening wayward gamblers with death and running prostitutes out of this Lake County strip club

--------------------------------------------
10.17.2005
Government has its hand over Michael Posner’s head? Notorious Chicago figure active in Aruba casino
DIARIO Aruba


ORANJESTAD (AAN): Some time ago DIARIO found information regarding the manager of the Holiday Inn’s Excelsior Casino and people have been calling out to ask how a figure with a criminal past of such an extent can be active in the casino industry of Aruba.

His name? Michael Posner, owner (or one of the owners) of the Brickel Hotel situated in front of the big hotels in Malmok. In the past he was arrested in the state of Illinois for violation of the Ricco Act (racketeering) and because he was also involved in the world of prostitution.

He was condemned to 10 years in prison, but apparently he served 8 out of the 10 years. He appealed his case and lost the appeal! After he was released he was on parole for 5 years. His name is also mentioned as an associate of a notorious family.

DIARIO knows that the government is at the height of such people, and asks how he can be active in the casino industry of Aruba. How did he find a permit to work in this branch with the background that he has? How has the Minister of Justice still not taken action against him? Now that his criminal past is known, what is the government waiting for to take him out of Aruba?

During the [election] campaign which recently came to an end, many comments and rumours were circulating regarding contributions to certain politicians, including those in the [current] government. DIARIO hopes that the issue of campaign moneys remain a rumour, because if true, then there are more politicians for sale than is [already] apparent.

The presence of Michael Posner in the Aruba casino industry, with the criminal past that he has, does not speak well of the judicial control system, nor that of National Security, nor of those in charge to check the background of those who work in the tourism industry of Aruba.

This is the damage that one person with such a bad reputation, who was incarcerated during 8 years, who is associated with a notorious family in America, can cause to the tourism of Aruba.
http://tinyurl.com/2mslqw

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:26 schreef abcd-tje het volgende:

[..]

Well, that happend at 30 may 2005 Qwea, they have proven of the 2 phonecalls from
Natalee's mobile, they seems to never traced them
Nobody speaks of this phonecalls anymore, although it was proven in 2005 that there were
made in the early morning of may 30 2005 those 2 phonecalls from Natalee's her mobile.

However, althought there is prove that there were made 2 calls from Natalee's phone, this issue
is never research, never is know to were those 2 calls made too ........

then i consider this fact as the strangest thing happen in the case
i also think its weird that the rumours that PVDS dindt leave earlier dan joran
cant be aproved by other camera's from PVDS leaving alone (or with joran)

Boaters pass by the tourist party boat "Tattoo" off Palm Beach in Aruba, Friday, June 17, 2005. Steve Gregory Croes, 26, who works as a disc jockey on the boat became the fourth person arrested in the case, nearly three weeks after her disappearance.

AP Photo/Leslie Mazoch

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:18 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

We were told it was fishnet and it was never seen again. That is a terrible picture,the video is much clearer and looks much more like Natalee's top.MO

http://scaredmonkeys.com/(...)atched-natalees-top/

With all due respect, it might just what they say it was, fishnet, I can't tell from these images.

Why did the girls go back home?
If my friend disapeared, at least didn't show up at the airport, I would stay to find out what happend, did they ever come up with a good story?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:34 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

If her phone was indeed at the hotel, some of her friends could have used the phone.

True.. only.. i haven't read anything about that anywhere?

and @ observer: Is the 'excact ' location of where the top was found clear?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:23 schreef THEFXR het volgende:
@observer777, i think you are right, no official record of this? Paul must have known natalee then, but he denies it?

He said he left to go home because his youngest son was dropped of at 18:30..If you look at the timestamp of the casino pictures it is 20:14. Also in Jorans official statement he says he played in another tournament until 20:30 I beleive..He didn't win any money and never finished 3-4th in that tourney. I can prove they lied about 10 things in that casino..But why lie? Natalee wasn't even missing yet. Many people have attacked and adamantly denied that is PVDS in that pic and Joran denies it in his book. The next day is very key because PVDS says he went to deposit this money to the bank. I posted Info on this in the last thread,that has a timeline the next day what we think may have happened. Remember that Bank teller he met passed away just 2 weeks after this.

Dr. Andrew Hodges - Thoughtprints

1:15 a.m
Three suspects leave Carlos’n Chalie’s with Natalee in Deepak’s car
1:30 a.m
Three suspects begin brutal rape on shocked Natalee (on secluded road)
2:00 a.m.
Natalee dies suddenly and unexpectedly exactly 30 minutes later
2:10 a.m. (approximately)
Joran calls father Paulus who helps plan cover up which includes plan to bring body to Joran’s house.
2:15 a.m. (approximately)
Gardener sees three suspects stopped near Racquet Club. (Obviously suspects were already planning cover up attempting to appear as if only two boys and not three together.
2:30 a.m.
Boys quickly drive to Deepak’s house to establish alibi with Satish getting on computer and chatting appearing to be Deepak.
2:35 to 3:10 am
Deepak and Joran drive to his house staging phony cell phone calls/text messages to each other appearing to be apart with Joran heading toward his house alone. Likely they swung by friend/boat driver’s house where he snuck out to join Deepak and Joran. (Satish continues to chat intermittently on computer.)
3:10 a.m.
Joran, Deepak, and boat driver arrive at Joran’s house to meet with Paulus.
3:13 a.m.
Joran makes another phony cell phone call to Deepak, “Hey, swa (brother), I’m home.”
3:13 a.m. to 3:33 a.m.
Paulus talks to 3 boys for 15 minutes about plan to dump Natalee’s body in ocean. Boys then immediately head for ocean/sandbar.
3:25 a.m.
Deepak (really Satish) sends two email messages to Joran with no response.
3: 33 a.m. to 3: 56 a.m.
Paulus on computer appearing to be Joran: responding twice to Deepak (really Satish), checking soccer scores, and watching porn.
4:30 a.m.
Joran visits hotmail and likely back home from disposing of body in ocean. Shortly thereafter Deepak arrives home after dropping Joran off where Satish waits.
6:30 a.m.
Paulus is on his own computer researching the efects of drugs and alcohol together.
Understanding the Timeline
To understand this timeline it is important to see how Deepak reveals crucial times in a crossword type pattern--here a clue, there a clue. (Remember too this email is the hidden story of Natalee's death and written five days afterwards so every communication/thoughtprint has to do with "after the fact.")
Pay attention to the particular event Deepak links to the specific time which provides clue. For example, “closing time” was definitely at 1 am. Closing time matches the music stopping, the dance being over, etc--the moment of death.
Since the three suspects left Carlos’ n’ Charlie’s at 1:15 am this means Natalee’s death was later -- 1 am “closing time” for Natalee becomes 2 am properly decoded.)
Other time clues suggest the three suspects were alone with Natalee -- "danced with her" for exactly 30 minutes before she died (they arrived at 12:30 am/”closing time” exactly 30 minutes later)
Each assault lasted approximately 10 minutes (e.g. clue: "I got off my shift at 10”). Deepak was continually preoccupied with the time frame of "10 minutes."

[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door johan555 op 06-02-2008 22:51:43 ]

I've read somewhere else that they dindt ask questions cause else a flight(s) for 200 people should have been canceled ,
but i dont get it why the girlfriends that had seen her as last havent bin asked anything
is it a tru fact that still no one of their friends have given a declaration about what they say
cause i heard that 6 months later they all came up with the same stories
that not 1 knew more then the other

Also weird:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=YXD3hJu2-kY&feature=related

(from http://scrux.com )Skeeters says, "I'm sure she had sex with all of you," and Deepak Kalpoe, says, "No, she didn't." This is the unedited portion of the infamous Jamie Skeeters recording of Deepak Kalpoe interview (Deepak didn't know he was being taped), that was edited on the Dr. Phil show to say "She did." We will upload that segment later as well for you to see and hear the difference. This is poorly done video (Jamie Skeeters didn't do a very good job of positioning the camera). Make sure you have your volume up... and you can hear it exactly. From the fraudulent Dr. Phil version, Beth Twitty accused all Joran van der Sloot and both Kalpoe brothers of gang raping Natalee Holloway.

You can check out the full first ten minutes here on youtube.com: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ8Dcx...


And:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=ELxTwuoveLA&feature=related

(from http://scrux.com )This is the Dr. Phil fraudulent version of Deepak Kalpoes interview. This is what he is being sued about. Dr. Phil (or his people) edited, spliced and manipulated Deepak's words to change a denial into a confession. Although Dutch NFI (like our FBI) lab tests showed that the video had been altered to frame Deepak, Dr. Phil has never apologized or retracted it. Beth Twitty (Natalee Holloway's mother) used this "doctored" tape to accuse the Kalpoes of "gang rape" nightly on cable news shows for many months. Dr. Phil is being sued by Deepak and Satish Kalpoe and this video is the subject of that lawsuit. You should compare this with the original 2 and 1/2 hour interview videos (done without Deepak's permission).

ze gebruiken de computer als alibi die gegevens zijn altijd te traceren

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:37 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Wheres the vid?

It is no longer on the net. Also there has been much discussion about the two phone calls. We were recently told by Natalee's family that there was never a call from Natalee. I don't really want to get into it because I always believed there was a call but I have no proof,the interviews with Greta and Charles Croes told a great deal but they were erased from the internet. Remember SANDER GOTTENBO"S said his cell phone was stolen the day that Natalee went missing. Coincidence?

This is a trash tabloid..But it talks about the calls. Some of what this newspaper says is total trash and not believable. However I believe much of what they reported on Natalee was true. It depends on the story and what they were talking about. But when you read this paper you must take the info with a grain of salt.
DESPERATE LAST CRY FOR HELP THAT COULD TRAP ARUBA KILLERS
Snip
Shortly after she was last seen alive, she left a message on a close friend's cell phone. Chillingly, a sinister male voice is heard in the background asking Natalee: "Are you calling home?"Sources close to the investigation say Natalee appeared to be traveling inside a car when she phoned her pal at a time police will give only as "between 2 am and 5 am".As we reported exclusively two weeks ago, Aruban police believe that somebody slipped Natalee the drug Ecstasy while she was inside the bar.
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63312

Also,I was telling you about them saying Natalee hit her head..We know PVDS told a similar story to Robert Werner the Headmaster of Jorans school just a few days after the dissapearance. PVDS told him Natalee may have hit her head and drowned. Here is another NE article from a friend of the Van Der Sloots that was interviewed by the FBI. I believe this happened and is true. Just another example of Natalee hitting her head.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
HOW NATALEE WAS KILLED
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63315
Snip
In an exclusive interview, the Dooleys said they contacted the FBI after learning of Joran's confession to his dad during a shopping trip to a clothing store in Charlotte, N.C. The date was June 11, just a few days after Aruba police had arrested Joran and the Kalpoe brothers as "persons of interest" in the case.

Dooley said the clerk at the clothing store told him that she and her husband are very good friends with Joran's dad, Paulus van der Sloot, and his wife, Anita. Her own son had attended school with Joran on the island and was a close pal.

The clerk told Dooley: "Joran told his father that he and Natalee had all been drinking and taking drugs at the nightclub. The father specifically mentioned they took Ecstasy. Joran told his father that when they left the club, they went to a beach on the island. Natalee was very ill and threw up several times.

"Then she fell and hit her head on something. Joran checked her and realized she was dead.

[ Bericht 8% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 23:02:31 ]

Strange things happened the last 3 years, to say the least..

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:56 schreef yvonne het volgende:
Strange things happened the last 3 years, to say the least..

You got that right! We have only scratched the surface of strange and suspicious things that happened.

Verhaal van de helderziende berlijnlely@zonnet.nl

Wat is er werkelijk gebeurd met Natalee Holloway? Door de aandacht in de media van de vermissing van natalee worden alle ogen gericht op drie mogelijk betrokkenen.Deze zijn uitgemeten beschreven en als enige verdachten onderzocht. De zoektocht door speurhonden hebben niets opgeleverd en ook de F16 kon niets vinden en ook het uitgebreid zoeken op het water gaf geen resultaat. Het onderzoek door een hoge politiefunctionaris leverde ook niets op. Ook het onderzoek van Peter R de Vries gaf niet echt een verhelderde blik op de zaak.Veel al werden vermoedens aangemerkt als feiten en op deze manier zal en kan er geen opjectief onderzoek plaats vinden. Het dure onderzoek zit muurvast en waarom? Was het J.v/d S was het S? Was het D? Waarom liegen zij? Hier mijn idee en hoe het anders , sneller , en goedkoper had kunnen gaan. Helderzienden en ander paranormaal begaafde personen hebben gedegen indruk binnen gekregen wat er gebeurd zal kunnen zijn en dit gemeld bij de KLPD en lokale politie. Daar deze bevindengen in de regel als fantasieverhalen worden beschouwd, wordt er weinig mee gedaan of zelfs niets. Waarom worden deze niet naast elkaar gelegd en vergeleken op overeenkomsten? Het is vrijwel kostenloos informatie wat in andere landen wel word gebruikt en met sukses. Natuurlijk zullen lezers denken van :weer zo.n verhaal van iemand die spoken ziet en zegt dat ze bestaan.Toch vind ik het de moeite waard om deze bevindingen te controleren, vooral omdat de kosten minimaal zijn en de uitkomst verrassend kan zijn.Waarom hebben sommigen mensen de zelfde verblijfplaats kunnen beschrijven? Toeval? daar geloof ik niet in.Omdat er niet wordt geluisterd naar deze mensen , zal de juistheid ook nooit kunnen worden vastgesteld. Mijn inziens is dit gebeurd en laat iemand maar eens tegen spreken wat er niet van klopt!!


Ik ben me bezig gaan houden vanaf het moment dat er wat gebeurde op het strand. Hier zag ik hoe Natalee aan haar einde kwam en hoe .( in een visioen ) J. v/d S was inderdaad op het strand met Natalee en hebben daar geen echte sex gehad.J vd/S heeft haar achter gelaten op het strand omdat hij wist dat G ook naar het strand zou komen om wat te proberen met Natalee. Deze G heeft haar benaderd waar zij geen interesse in had waar op G boos werd en een behoorlijke woordenwisseling plaats vond. Hierna heeft G haar op het zand gewerkt en haar verkracht.Natalee heeft zich behoorlijk verzet middels bijten en krabben en slaan. Omdat G zijn linker bovenarm op haar keel had kon zij weinig uitrichten om dat zij bijna geen lucht kon halen.Hierna is zij gestikt door de druk van de arm.Dit was niet de bedoeling van G en was hier enorm van geschrokken.Kijkend naar zijn arm zag hij hoe deze behoorlijk was open gekrabt en wist even niet wat te doen.Hij besloot haar naar een vissershut te brengen zodat zij niet zou worden opgemerkt door anderen.Hij tilde haar op en bracht haar naar deze hut. G nam contact op met J v/d S ( hoe weet ik niet, waarschijnlijk was hij nog bij het strand) en vroeg hem te helpen Natalee te verbergen.S en D werden op de hoogte gebracht van het gebeuren en samen zochten zij een oplossing om Natalee te laten verdwijnen.Dit omdat zij wel wisten dat zij als verdachten zouden worden aangemerkt. J. v/d S heeft gevraagd aan zijn vader, of hij gebruik kon maken van een auto ( ik zag een terreinwagen ) en ook de vader was nu op de hoogte van wat zich had afgespeeld. Vanaf de hut loopt een weg die als men rechtsaf ging en dan weer links zij in een woonwijk kwamen waar nou niet de aller rijksten wonen en zij wel een geschikte plaats wisten. Deze wijk heet Bakval. Ik kreeg door nummer 53. Dit is en roodkleurige woning. Daar aangekomen hebben zij haar onder een oude boot gedumpt en er wat zand tegen aan geschoven.( dit kan juist zijn omdat een F16 niet door staal kan kijken ) een geschikte plaats gevonden dus.Naast de boot ligt veel oude rommel. Eigenlijk was dit een tijdelijke plaats ( later meer ) J.v/d S is hierna naar huis gegaan en ook G vertrok , maar niet naar het hotel maar elders. Daar J. v/d S en D en S de verhalen op elkaar moesten afstemmen hebben zij dit besproken de volgende dag.Daar zij de moord niet hadden gepleegd maar wel hadden geholpen bij het verstoppen van Natalee wisten zij later niet te antwoorden op vragen van de politie en begonnen leugens te verzinnen. Dit om G ( die een vriend is) niet te verraden. Daar Natalee na een tijd nog niet was gevonden, besloten zij haar maar te laten waar ze was. Speurhonden hebben gezocht maar niet in de buurt van de verblijfplaats.Dit ook omdat de medewerking ter plaatsen niet goed was. Bovenstaande waren de bevindingen van mij voor dat er iets van dit bekend is gemaakt. Dan nog het verhaal van de schoenen. Daar G zijn schoenen was kwijtgeraakt op het strand of elders, besloot J.v/d S zijn schoenen te verstoppen voor het geval dat de schoenen van G gevonden zouden worden. Dit verklaart de onjuiste schoenmaat van J v/d S. Ook zag ik sierraden bij Natalee, een armband kleur zilver en een ring ook zilverkleurig. Conclusie 1 Later werd bekend gemaakt dat G inderdaad verwondingen op zijn arm had en was vertokken naar Nederland. ( toeval? ) 2 J.v/d S ontkend ( heeft het ook niet gedaan ) 3 S ontkend ( heeft het ook niet gedaan ) 4 D ontkend ( heeft het ook niet gedaan ) 5 G gevlucht ( heeft het wel gedaan ) 6 De mannen liegen inderdaad maar als je het niet gedaan hebt kan je het ook niet goed beschrijven of bekennen. 7 Controleer de schoenmaat van G 8 Vertel de ouders dat deze info is binnen gekomen, zo dat daar gezocht kan worden. 9 Natalee nog spoorloos ( nog niet gezocht op Bakval ) oplossing: Het lichaam van Natalee vinden op de aangegeven plaats, eventueel met een speurhond en de huidschilvers van G onder de nagels vergelijken met deze G. Stoppen met het zoeken op het water, zonde van de tijd en geld. Dit tot zo ver het beknopte verhaal van mijn kant. JB

ps met G bedoelt ie guido wever


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:

Op woensdag 6 february 2008 23:04 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

You got that right! We have only scratched the surface of strange and suspicious things that happened.

And I have the strange feeling that everybody knew more than we in Holland did

there are just 2 much stange things about this case,
something big needs to be hide
with that on my mind i dont think the crackhouse theory is so strange indeed

en waarom heeft JvdS geen blauw oog opgelopen als ik vragen mag?

joran had maandag ochtend een blauw Oog !!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 23:08 schreef Sjweethet het volgende:
there are just 2 much stange things about this case,
something big needs to be hide
with that on my mind i dont think the crackhouse theory is so strange indeed

They were searching the crackhouses because that is where Jan Van Der Straaten,Dompig,Renfro and others from Aruba told them to go. All to distract and lead them away from the real killers.MO

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 23:20 schreef johan555 het volgende:
joran had maandag ochtend een blauw Oog !!

dat bedoel ik , hoezo heeft die helderziende het daar niet over of heeft ie zichzelf in zn slaap op zn oog gestompt


@ observer,
But isnt a crackhouse (or a bigger drugscompany) a better reason to shut your mouth
than being the sun of a loyer who has some important friends

dont forget; drugs make the world goes around
and ( i think) defenitly Aruba

Well, as i stated before.
Everybody is looking in the "timeline" of Joran v/d Sloot.
(When they were last seen leaving a bar, till the first tracks of Joran being home,
sms, downloading etc.)

Im really starting to think that there is "another timeline" accoording to the disappearance
of Natalee.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 23:08 schreef Sjweethet het volgende:
there are just 2 much stange things about this case,
something big needs to be hide
with that on my mind i dont think the crackhouse theory isnt so strange indeed

I agree with that.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 23:35 schreef abcd-tje het volgende:
Well, as i stated before.
Everybody is looking in the "timeline" of Joran v/d Sloot.
(When they were last seen leaving a bar, till the first tracks of Joran being home,
sms, downloading etc.)

Im really starting to think that there is "another timeline" accoording to the disappearance
of Natalee.

Yes we haven't sen the real timeline yet at all..

@abcd-tje
Yes, Aruba and other parts of the carribean are the epicenter in the cocaine distribution network from places like Colombia. Also widely known for the money laundering. You are correct PVDS had friends in the right p[laces..Judges,Govt,Police,OM and only god knows what else

[ Bericht 5% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 23:59:38 ]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 23:35 schreef abcd-tje het volgende:
Well, as i stated before.
Everybody is looking in the "timeline" of Joran v/d Sloot.
(When they were last seen leaving a bar, till the first tracks of Joran being home,
sms, downloading etc.)

Im really starting to think that there is "another timeline" accoording to the disappearance
of Natalee.

maby we should look some deeper in the timeline of the others
btw. im curious if joran will show up @ the police 2morrow to give them a new decleration

Article in dutch that talks about Lorenzo..I think this poster got Lorenzo's mom named confused with Jorans mom. LVR'S mom is Astrid and Joran's mom is Anita.

http://misdaadjournalist.(...)6_febr.html#comments

http://www.scrux.com/natalee/studentquotes.htm

here is some things her girlfriends said


Katie Henley: The following sounds liked a paraphrased quote: "They found her bags in her room with her passport and cell phone and were instantly concerned," said Katie Henley. This also sounds paraphrased: "She said no one wondered about her whereabouts sooner, because the students were spread around the sprawling resort and often camped in each others' rooms." The following sounds more like a verbatim quote: Natalee's Miss Itinerary, if she knew she was going to miss a flight she'd freak out. It's just not like her. When she wasn't there, we knew something was wrong. cloned source -(Scroll down to entry with "From the Birminham News Friday, June 03, 2005")

I have never been to Aruba or any of the other Antilles but I have a major problem imagining people like Joran taking tourist girls to a crackhouse, it's totally out of character. Extacy or cocaine I have no problem believing, but crack, no... Is there any chance the word kraakpand somehow was mistranslated and became crackhouse? Kraak means squat and pand means house or building, it's obvious how that could become crackhouse... Here in Holland a squat or a kraakpand is a likely place to go and get extacy and or dance...

Wat nu Joran? we weten inmiddels dat je hier ook meeleest

Je zal de gifbeker zo langzamerhand wel hebben leeggedronken, maar de bodem is nog niet in zicht, Joran. De grootste commotie hebben we inmiddels achter de rug, maar het beste wordt voor het laatst bewaard.
Vandaag heb je een afspraak met het OM en krijg je een herkansing om eindelijk schoon schip te maken en uit te leggen wat er nu precies in die cruciale nacht gebeurde met Natalee Holloway.


Natuurlijk lezen wij ook de commentaren dat je er in gestonken bent. Dat jij als jonge jongen tegenover zo'n gelouterde en doorgewinterde Patrick van der Eem zat. Je kon ook niet anders vanwege het feit dat je zó tegen deze in jouw ogen crimineel op keek. Als een jong schoothondje zat je naast hem in die grote bling bling auto.


Na elke zin die je uitsprak keek je verwachtingsvol naar jouw grote voorbeeld en zo hoopte dat wat hij wilde horen ook kreeg te horen.
Je werd loslippig en ontremd, zelfs euforisch omdat je regelmatig een joint in je mik geschoven kreeg.
Dat is natuurlijk wat je advocaat en/of je vader je inmiddels wel zal hebben ingefluisterd. Maar het is natuurlijk niet niks wat je als serieleugenaar allemaal moet onthouden tegenwoordig. Gelukkig ben je goed voor je vrienden. Neem nou die vader van je. Die man doet zijn best om van jou een respectabele burger te maken. Iedere vader wil tenslotte een kloon op de wereld schoppen. Adviseert je in het geval van Natalee Holloway dat je je kaken stevig op elkaar moet houden. Zorgt voor een mobieltje in de bajes. En jij waardeerde dit allemaal.
NIETS van dit alles. Je vindt hem dom. Je vindt je Honda-gabbertjes dom omdat ze bij de meiden niet kunnen scoren. Maar ja, misschien stoppen zij geen shit in de drankjes van de meiden om ze gewillig te maken.

Het OM, de rechter, de politie in Nederland vind je dom. Peter R. de Vries vind je dom. Straks heeft je advocaat het natuurlijk ook gedaan en wellicht komen er nog een paar namen uit je toverdoos zodat je later weer kunt zeggen dat het gelogen is. Slimme tactiek. Wie heeft je dat allemaal geleerd? Vast je strenge moeder niet. Zij vindt dat ze te streng voor je was en 100% overtuigt is van jouw onschuld. Zou dat nu nog zo zijn? [...]

Brabbel je in die uitzending over een naam die je geholpen heeft met het doen verdwijnen van Natalee en die arme jongen weet van de prins geen kwaad. Lekker joch ben jij. Krijgt die jongen de hele wereld over zich heen terwijl hij gewoon in Nederland zat in de periode dat jij aan het hoeren en snoeren was. Want dat is zo'n beetje je leven. Veel drugs en rock 'n roll. O ja, en niet te vergeten het gokken. Ja, je ouders did a hell of a job door jou uit te poepen.

Kijk, al die bedweters die nu vinden dat jij er in geluisd ben omdat je zoveel joints aangeboden kreeg, kijk, dat is natuurlijk gelul van die azijnzeikers. Je blowt en zuipt ook op andere dagen en toen wist je wel je mond stijf dicht te houden. Dus daar heeft het niet aan gelegen. Je bent berekenend en gewetenloos. En respectloos ga je met mensen, vooral vrouwen, om. Alle kenmerken van een anti-sociale persoonlijkheid. Alleen je eigen behoeftebevrediging telt.

Los van die gympen (zo'n grote afstand heb je niet afgelegd, dus moet je precies kunnen aanwijzen waar je ze hebt achtergelaten) zijn we ook benieuwd hoe die moeder van jou op dit alles heeft gereageerd. Per slot van rekening wilde zij met haar charmeoffensief bij Pauw & Witteman - voor 5000 euro - aan Nederland laten zien hoe goed zij jou had opgevoed. Nou, dat hebben we geweten. [...]

Moet je je voorstellen dat je al zo over de rooie was om een aantal kritische opmerkingen van Peter R. de Vries dat je daardoor weloverwogen een glas wijn in iemand z'n ogen gooide. Hoe kwaad zal je zijn geworden toen je die bewuste nacht op Aruba je zin niet kreeg en in woede ontstak? Okay, we geloven dat Natalee begon te trillen en het niet zeker was of ze nog leefde of dood was. En wat doe jij? Je wordt kwaad omdat dit jou nu precies moest overkomen. Je kunt niet eens exact vertellen of ze nu wel of niet verzwaard overboord gekieperd is. Je hebt niet eens, of die zogenaamde (denkbeeldige) vriend van je, gecheckt of ze wel dood was.

Elke normale en gezonde jongen zou meteen het alarmnummer of een ziekenauto hebben gebeld. Bijna alles is op dat eiland op loopafstand en jij, jij maakte je alleen druk om het feit dat het uitgerekend jou moest overkomen. Wat er uiteindelijk is gebeurd hebben we in grote lijnen zondag uit je eigen grote mond kunnen optekenen. Zelf heb je nog niet alles naar waarheid verteld. Wie belde je precies om hulp, als dat al waar is want voor hetzelfde geld heb je het helemaal in je eentje gedaan. Was het je vader, of heb je je vader geïnstrueerd om achter je pc te gaan zitten zodat jij een alibi had om op je gemak Natalee te doen verdwijnen?

Het is wel heel gemakkelijk om je neer te zetten als een serieleugenaar. Dat is iets te kort door de bocht maar helaas weer zo'n wrange constatering hoever men gaat om psycho's zoals jij bent te beschermen. Je kunt alleen jezelf de schuld geven van deze ellende en erkennen dat je een waardeloze nietsnut bent die straf verdient voor hetgeen hij heeft gedaan en nagelaten. Nee, in plaats daarvan hoop je er nog een slaatje uit te slaan door een schadevergoeding te willen claimen. Hoe ziek en verrot ben je wel niet dat dit jouw drijfveren zijn om door te gaan met dit alles?

Denk daar maar allemaal aan als je morgen gaat verklaren hoe het precies zat en wat er die bewuste nacht op Aruba met Natalee is gebeurd. Zo niet, dan zal de zaak Natalee Holloway een Boca grande worden waar je je hele leven niet meer van af zal komen.

bron crimesite

[ Bericht 1% gewijzigd door johan555 op 07-02-2008 01:12:47 ]

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 01:07 schreef johan555 het volgende:
Wat nu Joran? we weten inmiddels dat je hier ook meeleest
...bron crimesite

dus dat meelezen is op crimesite? of kijkt hij hier ook mee?

hier heet ie paulla

Unfortunately Joran couldn't tell, accordingly to his confession to Patrick van der Eem, whether Natalee had died, otherwise one would assume that Joran was aware of the fact that he was taped, while confessing. If he had said that he positively knew that Natalee died after what looked like a eplileptic fit, he would gotten himself of the hook, wouldn't he.
At least if what observer777 and his followers are alleging is right. He would have confessed to a minor crime (disposing of a dead body), while instead he had given her a partydrug, then gangraped her with his buddies and in unison with his father and after the fact backed up by govt officials had disposed of the body.
So it's strange that he didn't say that Natalee was in fact as dead as a door nail when Daury (the second a.k.a. lorenzo) had picked her up. Why didn't he say that? That's pretty strange, because when you believe observer777's theory he was contriving all the time. Why not concocting a story in which you're totally innocent; except the disposing of the body.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 00:45 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
I have never been to Aruba or any of the other Antilles but I have a major problem imagining people like Joran taking tourist girls to a crackhouse, it's totally out of character. Extacy or cocaine I have no problem believing, but crack, no... Is there any chance the word kraakpand somehow was mistranslated and became crackhouse? Kraak means squat and pand means house or building, it's obvious how that could become crackhouse... Here in Holland a squat or a kraakpand is a likely place to go and get extacy and or dance...

This is a segment from Beths book "Loving Natalee"

quote:

Tips come in all day Wednesday. Natalee was supposedly seen at a pizza place, a gas station, on the street with two crack addicts, and in a jeep owned by a drug dealer. We spend hours following leads, chasing lies.

Wednesday rolls into Thursday when a tip comes in at 1 a.m. from an island newspaper reporter. She has a lead that Natalee is being held at a crack house on the other side of the island. The reporter says we should meet her at a restaurant called the Buccaneer to figure out how to buy Natalee back from the crack dealers. Buy Natalee back. Convinced this tip is solid, we call Detective Jacobs, who meets us at the crack house.

With Jacobs standing by, the men search inside and after a few minutes, come out. I run to them. Natalee isn't there. So much anticipation was expended on this search that there isn't an ounce of hope left in me.

So there where some rumors about a "crack house". There probably where all kinds of crazy rumors and such. Not all that credible I imagine.

strange !
Holly Brown, a friend who accompanied Holloway to Aruba and was at Carlos 'N Charlie's the night she disappeared, said she found Van Der Sloot to be "very different."

"We noticed he was in the casino all by himself," she told CNN in Alabama. "He lied about his age, and when we went on the (Carlos 'N Charlie's) Web site, we found pictures of him there one week before at the same place, wearing the same clothes."

Wierd.......

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 01:39 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
...

is this a general question or are you asking someone in particular?

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 01:39 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
Unfortunately Joran couldn't tell, accordingly to his confession to Patrick van der Eem, whether Natalee had died, otherwise one would assume that Joran was aware of the fact that he was taped, while confessing. If he had said that he positively knew that Natalee died after what looked like a eplileptic fit, he would gotten himself of the hook, wouldn't he.
At least if what observer777 and his followers are alleging is right. He would have confessed to a minor crime (disposing of a dead body), while instead he had given her a partydrug, then gangraped her with his buddies and in unison with his father and after the fact backed up by govt officials had disposed of the body.
So it's strange that he didn't say that Natalee was in fact as dead as a door nail when Daury (the second a.k.a. lorenzo) had picked her up. Why didn't he say that? That's pretty strange, because when you believe observer777's theory he was contriving all the time. Why not concocting a story in which you're totally innocent; except the disposing of the body.

one take:

i have been thinking about this a long time.
imo it shows indeed he didn't know he was being taped. he was honest, he starting realizing that she maybe wasn't dead at all after Patrick mentioned she may have been in a coma.

some people say, nobody would confess something disgusting like that to impress another criminal.
that girl-molesters/killers are the lowest of the lowest in all prisons.
but: they have been talking with eachother a very long time about all sorts of things.
in the beginning not that much about natalee.
i think joran noticed that patrick didn't care that much - patrick was trying to portray himself like that.
they became friends, so patrick cannot be totally disgusted by the way joran talked about the case (before his confession that is).
so joran maybe thought: wow here is another person who doesn't give shit about a human life, i might tell him my story.

different take:

but also keep in mind. he said one time that they both disposed of the body, but the second time that only 'Daury' threw her off the boat.
so he could spin it, that she didn't die at all 'in his arms', and also he didn't throw a living person of a boat but his friend did.
then he is even more off the hook. then he only refused to get help for a very ill girl.
in this theory only he and the 'mystery Daury' are witnesses.
it could be a very well thought through distraction to prevent the investigation from looking at other witnessesn.
remember he called deepak and satish many times stupid, retards.
maybe to prevent them from being suspect and investigated.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:29 schreef deedeetee het volgende:


So what ? This could happen almost anywhere around the world But I have to admit : it's probably worse on places like that island. Because it 's small and there are n't that many people.

Just because Aruba is a small island, living from tourism it's in the picture even more than when it all happened in, let's say, Bulgaria or Canada.
My wife has been here several times too and one of our friends (girl) overhere isn't raped either since she moved to Aruba.
They both don't visit places were shit like that can happen. Charlie's bar doesn't have a good reputation, just like some bars in my hometown Amsterdam which we don't visit either...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 20:52 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Hello Everyone:)

Someone was asking for a timeline in the other thread..This is the best one I know of..

http://members.aol.com/WorldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

That was me, the guy you banned...
I asked in the other thread also why I was banned @ SM, haven't seen an answer yet...

Google ads

quote:

Boycott Aruba for Natalee
Boycott Aruba so Natalee Holloway case is reopened. Sign Petition.
www.youchoose.net/

62 votes already since december 27, 2007...



[ Bericht 4% gewijzigd door MadMaster op 07-02-2008 04:54:27 ]

Observer...There was some discussion here earlier about the judicial-inc.biz website... It contains a lot of very anti-semitic material. I was wondering what the connection is between that site and Scared Monkeys if any at all... Perhaps you could clear that up for us?

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 04:47 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

That was me, the guy you banned...
I asked in the other thread also why I was banned @ SM, haven't seen an answer yet...

I didn't ban you at all and I am suprised you were banned..You should write Klaas and find out why..I was busy last night so I wasn't paying attention.
klaasend@scaredmonkeys.com

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 04:54 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
Observer...There was some discussion here earlier about the judicial-inc.biz website... It contains a lot of very anti-semitic material. I was wondering what the connection is between that site and Scared Monkeys if any at all... Perhaps you could clear that up for us?

Yes,that site is very anti-sematic and is absolutely not linked to SM..They had a few interesting things at that site but very mean spirited towards jewish people and others..Not acceptable!!

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 05:05 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Yes,that site is very anti-sematic and is absolutely not linked to SM..They had a few interesting things at that site but very mean spirited towards jewish people and others..Not acceptable!!

cool, thanks for clearing that up...

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 04:58 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

I didn't ban you at all and I am suprised you were banned..You should write Klaas and find out why..I was busy last night so I wasn't paying attention.
klaasend@scaredmonkeys.com

The message I see now:

An Error Has Occurred!

Sorry MadMaster, you are banned from using this forum!
You said you made your last post

doesn't make any sense to me...

Email to Klaas is sent...

The Aruba Bay Video's are a great mystery in this case. First we were told they were painting signs. Then they told a body of a 7 yr old illegal who dissapeared a year ago was there. Strange cause they told Natalee's father about him and he was found a year ago somewhere else. They told us he was dismembered and in several pieces..We were told the man with the beard works for the Aruban police forensic unit..Some people think Natalee is in that bag and others think they saw body parts..Personally I am not convinced and I dont see it but this whole rock painting is very strange!

This is a good site for those of you looking for info. Other pics of this video clearly show the man painting over a red substance with this white paint. It hardened over the rock to remove forensic material then came off like puddy. This video was put on the net on June 11th 2005 I believe and many think it was to show the two blacks were being framed. There is one piece of the video still missing that was pulled off the net.

http://arubassilence.bravehost.com/chicago.html

[ Bericht 10% gewijzigd door observer777 op 07-02-2008 05:39:40 ]

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 05:16 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

The message I see now:

An Error Has Occurred!

Sorry MadMaster, you are banned from using this forum!
You said you made your last post

doesn't make any sense to me...

Email to Klaas is sent...

Maybe she thought you were goin there just to stir things up and were leaving. I have seen others that said that was there last post at SM and were banned after causing problems or complaining. We get attacked a great deal. You should tell her that was your last post of the night,not the last post ever and that you want to contribute or help the case,whatever reason you want to post at that site.

I've been on that spot (beside the California Lighthouse on the hill) several times but never have seen the signs/paintings.

Maybe I will check it tomorrow if I got time...

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 05:52 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
I've been on that spot (beside the California Lighthouse on the hill) several times but never have seen the signs/paintings.

Maybe I will check it tomorrow if I got time...

Yes,same place but that paint was removed off the rocks in june 2005..Long gone!! You could always stop into the internet cafe and talk to Deepak..Ask him why he was washing down his car at 3am after NH dissapeared..

Tonight's show with Greta on Fox News

Jug Twitty talks about being asked if Natalee was epilectic 2 days after NH dissapeared.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUT-BCiOMQE

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 06:24 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Tonight's show with Greta on Fox News

Jug Twitty talks about being asked if Natalee was epilectic 2 days after NH dissapeared.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUT-BCiOMQE

i already started a dutch topic about it too.
i had to. i am quite exited about this.

i really really hope Peter R. picks this up, and i think he will because Beth said she wanted te be alone after seeing it.

Bewijs sabotage onderzoek Aruba vanaf dag 1

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 05:16 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

The message I see now:

An Error Has Occurred!

Sorry MadMaster, you are banned from using this forum!
You said you made your last post

doesn't make any sense to me...

Email to Klaas is sent...

Well perhaps doing a "Deepak Kalpoe" on them wasn’t the smartest thing to do?

Deepak said about Natalee: "to tell you the truth, dressed like a slut, talked like one"

Why would you bring up two sensitive subjects right away, the tourism "boycott" and how some girls dress and or behave? I'm not accusing you of anything, though you could at least have shown a little more consideration. Those people are very much emotionally involved in this.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 06:24 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Tonight's show with Greta on Fox News

Jug Twitty talks about being asked if Natalee was epilectic 2 days after NH dissapeared.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUT-BCiOMQE

“I know several times when they interviewed me, the police down there, they kept asking me about Natalee. Different questions about her. If she was epileptic and you know.. and just crazy things like that”

Now there are thousands hereditary diseases. Hundreds potential dangerous like epilepsy. Don’t tell me its just a coincidence they we're asking about seizures and epilepsy. That’s BS. They knew.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 06:39 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
Well perhaps doing a "Deepak Kalpoe" on them wasn’t the smartest thing to do?

Deepak said about Natalee: "to tell you the truth, dressed like a slut, talked like one"

Why would you bring up two sensitive subjects right away, the tourism "boycott" and how some girls dress and or behave? I'm not accusing you of anything, though you could at least have shown a little more consideration. Those people are very much emotionally involved in this.

I'm not allowed to warn parents for the (for them) unknown behaviour of their children in vacation paradises in common? Money for nothing and chicks for free, isn't it?
I said explicit I wasn't pointing at Natalee when I said the words I said about that.
But I saw last week myself a few times how some girls (not al!!!!) behave overhere, away from their parrents.

The boycot and the behaviour of the girls has nothing to do with each other and I didn't combined both subjects...

Even if people are emotional involved in this case, that's no reason to keep your eyes shut for the reality of nowadays life...

I wonder what the Dutch tax payers think of this?

Joran tells Patrick..My Family has a plan to sue the Aruban Court and to announce it on a Dutch TV talk show. That the Van Der Sloots deserve to be compensated for emotional damages. To talk about all the f**** mistakes that the Prosecuter made and because my father thinks it will come in handy for the damages claim. I'm gonna get a big fat compensation check according to my father. A really big fat one he says for the emotional damages.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgrnp8lEBTE

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:02 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

I'm not allowed to warn parents for the (for them) unknown behaviour of their children in vacation paradises in common? Money for nothing and chicks for free, isn't it?
I said explicit I wasn't pointing at Natalee when I said the words I said about that.
But I saw last week myself a few times how some girls (not al!!!!) behave overhere, away from their parrents.

The boycot and the behaviour of the girls has nothing to do with each other and I didn't combined both subjects...

Even if people are emotional involved in this case, that's no reason to keep your eyes shut for the reality of nowadays life...

Ah I see. And you where going to bring some of that "reality" to them?

I'm not trying to start an argument here.
You said "doesn't make any sense to me..."
Well, this is my take on it. I didn’t find it that difficult to understand.

I considered it as "bigtalk" pseudogangstertalk.
In Holland we don't have big lawsuits like you know over there.
Compensation suits are very uncommon and very hard to get.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:28 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

Ah I see. And you where going to bring some of that "reality" to them?

I'm not trying to start an argument here.
You said "doesn't make any sense to me..."
Well, this is my take on it. I didn’t find it that difficult to understand.

The reason 'You said you made your last post' doesn't make sense to me...

Close your eyes, shut your ears and the world is like a paradise...

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:24 schreef observer777 het volgende:
I wonder what the Dutch tax payers think of this?

That he won't get a penny...

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:28 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

Ah I see. And you where going to bring some of that "reality" to them?

I'm not trying to start an argument here.
You said "doesn't make any sense to me..."
Well, this is my take on it. I didn’t find it that difficult to understand.

I also tried to make my point, the world outside is no Disneyland, if you send you're children on a vacation far away, be aware ( as a parent) to warn your child, for realtime dangers.
This has nothing to do with Aruba, I presume in America you don't send you're child to the slums of * insert name of town*
* Good girls don't have sex before their married*

Yes they do, miles away from home, don't EVER close your eyes for that and warn them for the consequences, always.

Observer, my post is not a bash, it's a concerned mother speaking, all mothers are alike, worldwide.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:31 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

The reason 'You said you made your last post' doesn't make sense to me...

Close your eyes, shut your ears and the world is like a paradise...

Well let me put it more directly then so you can understand it despite having your eyes closed and your ears stuffed.

People dont like to be lectured by strangers.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:44 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

Well let me put it more directly then so you can understand it despite having your eyes closed and your ears stuffed.

People dont like to be lectured by strangers.

True, but speaking just for myself, it makes me uncomfortable to read that all Dutch are scum

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:35 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

I also tried to make my point, the world outside is no Disneyland, if you send you're children on a vacation far away, be aware ( as a parent) to warn your child, for realtime dangers.
This has nothing to do with Aruba, I presume in America you don't send you're child to the slums of * insert name of town*
* Good girls don't have sex before their married*

Yes they do, miles away from home, don't EVER close your eyes for that and warn them for the consequences, always.

I think they are pretty aware of the dangers.

You know we've had these discussions on Fok! as well. Users who where arguing that those girls "got what they deserved", "they were asking for it" etc.

If such is enough to cause a stir here on Fok, what do you imagine it would effect a forum for a large part dedicated to missing persons?

Like I said, I do not accuse MM of anything, the suggestion was there and that was enough. It wasnt very thoughtful to say the least.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:29 schreef yvonne het volgende:
I considered it as "bigtalk" pseudogangstertalk.
In Holland we don't have big lawsuits like you know over there.
Compensation suits are very uncommon and very hard to get.

Yes the Kalpoes are suing for 800 million american dollars right now ..In america you can be dirt poor and sue for milions. I posted this earlier but I find it stunning..This was printed in Diario newspaper after Paul Van Der Sloot was denied money when he sued the Aruban courts. He originally was awarded money but they appealed and he lost. Why did they wait so long before this info came out? They were telling the world another story about Joran leaving her at the beach at 2AM. PVDS stated for weeks he picked up Natalee and Joran at 4AM then changed his story. I dont get this at all!!

Superior Court - Diario - 02-14-2007
The whole case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway gets a different twist now that the information has come out from no less than the Superior Court, and in which mention is made of the declarations of witnesses and a phone tap that show or give an indication that Paul van der Sloot had on two occasions personal contact with Natalee during the night that she disappeared. Mention is made that, according to one or more official reports of the phone tap and also the declaration of Paul van der Sloot himself, that Paul fetched Joran and Natalee at McDonald and took them to the Holiday Inn. Based on this information, the judicial authorities and the police had at that time a justified basis to arrest Paul van der Sloot based on different suspicions. (Translation Credit: Diario)
http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/2/14/

http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/


Superior Court
January, 2007

The possible involvement of Paulus with that could then be deducted from the file with the official reports of witnesses, amongst which two people suggested a contact existed between Paulus and Natalee Holloway the night of her disappearance, and a taped report (that was given by the Prosecutor in her final note 1 to the Court). The taped information and his declaration that he picked up Joran and Natalee by the McDonalds Palm Beach and brought them to the Holiday Inn, are clearly understood by the Dept. of Justice, and could in the judgement of this Superior Court, be considered as an indication of the involvement of Paulus in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.”

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:54 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

I think they are pretty aware of the dangers.

There's the difference in culture again
If you're brought up that girls are good, and don't do bad things, swearing is a no go, etc etc etc,.
Well, we're drifting

I just like to say, as a parent, it's very hard to realise that your children are never, ever save in this world, what age they've become..
And people can be very hard in their judgements.
It worries me to see ( in discussions not only about Natalee) that people can say that someone "had it comming" and I can only hope they're saying it just on the internet and irl they have a more civilized opinion..

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:34 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

That he won't get a penny...

PVDS thinks he is much smarter than everyone else..When they were digging up his back yard last year,He went on Dutch radio and called them boys and girls on vacation in his back yard,drinking and eating and enjoying themselves. But I think the secret video of his son may dash his dreams of a big fat settlement check

Yes,What happened yesterday when I said Beth was Sweet and Caring..All hell broke loose here? I saw people puking and saying it was a culture difference. You guys forget I know many dutch people in almost every province in Holland..I am clueless what I did to upset so many here? I don't know beth and Natalee personally but believe me I know of them very well and I am a very good judge of character.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:46 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

True, but speaking just for myself, it makes me uncomfortable to read that all Dutch are scum

Ik heb ook geen zin om het hier in Engels neer te zetten, ze gooien het maar door Babelfish heen,

Ergo, dus Peter R. de Vries is ook scum? Hij is psvr ook Nederlands.
Dat gebash op de Nederlanders en hun bananenrepubiek Aruba (volgens Bange Aapjes) gebeurd daar al vanaf november 2005. Toen kreeg ik daar al een ban omdat ik alleen maar zei dat ik de boycot niet gerechtvaardigd vond. Nadat ik in de grond werd geboord door allerlei opmerking welke ik hier niet zal herhalen omdat ze te belachelijk zijn voor woorden, heb ik zonder boe of bah een ban gekregen. Waar doen jullie de moeite voor om daar wat neer te zetten? Tegenspraak dulden ze daar niet, al helemaal niet van Nederlanders of Arubanen. Het enige wat ik enigszins "vermakelijk" vind aan die site is dat ze alles tot op de bodem uitzoeken maar dan nog, hoe je het reilt of zeilt, geen wettelijke bewijzen, vooralsnog alleen maar aannames.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 08:10 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Yes,What happened yesterday when I said Beth was Sweet and Caring..All hell broke loose here? I saw people puking and saying it was a culture difference. You guys forget I know many dutch people in almost every province in Holland..I am clueless what I did to upset so many here? I don't know beth and Natalee personally but believe me I know of them very well and I am a very good judge of character.

Oh dear
The 2 or 3 comments of a FOK user you mean? That against the many unfriendly comments MM got on SM yesterday? Give me a break please! Yes, I know that you know some Dutch and I truly admire your hard work in getting this case solved. But the comments he got on SM, really.... that made me clueless.... shall I copy and paste? Nahhh... better not!

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 08:28 schreef BwennieBren het volgende:

[..]

Oh dear
The 2 or 3 comments of a FOK user you mean? That against the many unfriendly comments MM got on SM yesterday? Give me a break please! Yes, I know that you know some Dutch and I truly admire your hard work in getting this case solved. But the comments he got on SM, really.... that made me clueless.... shall I copy and paste? Nahhh... better not!

Haha just curious is all because I thought it may have been or a cultural thing like what stated here. No harm, really just wanted some opinions here is all.

Well,I had a feeling that may happen yesterday,I warned both sides.I even edited a post or two so they would give him a chance. He was being bombarded by questions and I did not know he would bring up defending Aruba and talk about some girls that party it up in Aruba and some things that would be sore subjects at SM so quickly. Nothing I could really do People have been through hell supporting that family and I hope you understand this. I tried to tell you some of the things in that post I responded to your questions on and I really believe you would be shocked at what has happened to Natalee's family. At times recently there has been up to 400 people online at one time at SM and I can't control it all. They arent used to someone defending Aruba and that isn't very knowledgeable about the case. I think MM is a regular Aruban/Dutch guy and not a plant that has terrorized,lied,slandered and spread dis-information like so many we have encountered in the last 2.5 years. Probably a deicent person from what he has said so far in this thread. I wouldn't go over to SM though and laugh at them because only 62 signed a online boycott thing though..

[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door observer777 op 07-02-2008 09:07:41 ]

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 08:43 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

So its true; SM is censoring all negative feedback on Natalee Holloway.

Weren't you the one who asked why Beth responded as if Natalee had been killed? After she just heard Natale might have been alive when she was dumped into the ocean.

quote:

Op maandag 4 februari 2008 08:32 schreef Scorpie het volgende:
Het rare vond ik dat ze zei "Look what they have done to her", alsof ze haar vermoord hadden
Beetje vreemd, want zoals Joran het zei over haar drank en drugsgebruik ging ze zelf ook niet helemaal vrijuit zeg maar...

Right.

"Like flies"

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 08:39 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

Thats a bit contradictive don`t you think? Besides; stating that you know someone if he/she is good of character without even meeting them, is a bit......far fetched.

Well top of the mornin to ya No I don't agree at all with you. I have many close friends that know them very well and I trust there opinions...I have read/seen most everything both parents have said in the last 2.5 years and my opinion on them is far from being far fetched. They are good people and I will vouch for there character and bet everything I have on there reputation.

Whats your opinion of Anita and Paul Van Der Sloot?

I opened a topic yesterday with some names which have passed along during the holloway-case with a personal comment, but it's been closed. I've asked the moderator why it's been closed but still have no anwser.

The comment I made then, just won't leave my toughts, but because I don't now why the topic has been closed i won't repeat it. I would find it a shame if I would get an IP-block for posting it again.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 08:59 schreef Lady_Mixje het volgende:
I opened a topic yesterday with some names which have passed along during the holloway-case with a personal comment, but it's been closed. I've asked the moderator why it's been closed but still have no anwser.

The comment I made then, just won't leave my toughts, but because I don't now why the topic has been closed i won't repeat it. I would find it a shame if I would get an IP-block for posting it again.

I don't understand this forum yet. I tried to post in a few threads like the Lorenzo Van Rijn thread and it was locked as well as a few others.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 08:50 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Haha just curious is all because I thought it may have been or a cultural thing like what stated here. No harm, really just wanted some opinions here is all.

Well,I had a feeling that may happen yesterday,I warned both sides.I even edited a post or two so they would give him a chance. He was being bombarded by questions and I did not know he would bring up defending Aruba and talk about some girls that party it up in Aruba and some things that would be sore subjects at SM so quickly. Nothing I could really do People have been through hell supporting that family and I hope you understand this. I tried to tell you some of the things in that post I responded to your questions on and I really believe you would be shocked at what has happened to Natalee's family. At times recently there has been up to 400 people online at one time at SM and I can't control it all. They arent used to someone defending Aruba and that isn't very knowledgeable about the case. I think MM is a regular Aruban/Dutch guy and not a plant that has terrorized,lied,slandered and spread dis-information like so many we have encountered in the last 2.5 years. Probably a deicent person from what he has said so far in this thread. I wouldn't go over to SM though and laugh at them because only 62 signed a online boycott thing though..

I understand more or less the aggravation but when you (on SM) try to solve things it's also very handy to have some Arubans or Dutch around for example the legal matters, cause the legal system is totally different here in Holland and in Aruba than in the US. There was one Dutch guy Rammstein, gone... Arubagirl.... gone....Hannie.... gone... you know what I mean? Those people maybe had another opinion about the case but could help in many ways.

Also, if you would be attacked here at FOK like MM was attacked on his posts yesterday on SM, the posts would be deleted... I think... And never forget that in Dutch we say things differently so it could be possible that ur posters read/understand it differently.

And yes, I'm shocked, first of all because of what happened to Natalee.....

[ Bericht 1% gewijzigd door BwennieBren op 07-02-2008 09:28:15 ]

Oh and Observer777 I have seen your answers ofcourse and relpied on them here

Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) II

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 09:12 schreef BwennieBren het volgende:

[..]

I understand more or less the aggravation but when you (on SM) try to solve things it's also very handy to have some Arubans or Dutch around for example the legal matters, cause the legal system is totally different here in Holland and in Aruba than in the US. There was one Dutch guy, pfffff.... I don't remember his nickname anymore (he's also a FOK user) he had the nick of a heavy metal group if I recall, gone... Arubagirl.... gone....Hannie.... gone... you know what I mean? Those people maybe had another opinion about the case but could help in many ways.

Also, if you would be attacked here at FOK like MM was attacked on his posts yesterday on SM, the posts would be deleted... I think... And never forget that in Dutch we say things differently so it could be possible that ur posters read/understand it differently.

And yes, I'm shocked, first of all because of what happened to Natalee.....

I love having Dutch and Arubans around..The problem is there are no Arubans on any of the Pro Natalee websites and really not many Dutch either. Just lately we have seen two or three at SM and they have been fantastic. We have seen so many people with other motives that twist the facts,derail the truth and trash NH and her family. You can find them at several sites under different names.

You talking about Rammstein? I know of Arubagirl and Hannie are..AG has posted some very interesting things. I dont care about different opinions as I only care about uncovering the truth and despise when people have other motives besides that. I am here for one reason only. Personally I love other cultures and people and I enjoy seeing and hearing what they say. Especially in this case because it looks like all 3 countries are involved.

I feel ignored

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 09:39 schreef yvonne het volgende:
I feel ignored

same here!

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 09:38 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

I love having Dutch and Arubans around..The problem is there are no Arubans on any of the Pro Natalee websites and really not many Dutch either. Just lately we have seen two or three at SM and they have been fantastic. We have seen so many people with other motives that twist the facts,derail the truth and trash NH and her family. You can find them at several sites under different names.

You talking about Rammstein? I know of Arubagirl and Hannie are..AG has posted some very interesting things. I dont care about different opinions as I only care about uncovering the truth and despise when people have other motives besides that. I am here for one reason only. Personally I love other cultures and people and I enjoy seeing and hearing what they say.

Yes I mean Rammstein, I already edited my post
It is YOU who like other cultures and people and enjoy hearing what they say about this casue, others(a lot) on SM not and there's the problem. I think a lot of the Dutch and Aruban poster stay away from SM because of that.

Anyway, better to ventilate your ideas and finding here, instead as us posting on SM, just as good, and no irritation vice versa... won't you say?

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 09:39 schreef yvonne het volgende:
I feel ignored

I feel your pain....

I'm off to the hospital

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 09:48 schreef BwennieBren het volgende:

[..]

I feel your pain....

I'm off to the hospital

Bye Matrix-babe

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 09:19 schreef BwennieBren het volgende:
Oh and Observer777 I have seen your answers ofcourse and relpied on them here

Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) II

I read your response and thanks for being honest! You are asking for more proof of a cover up? Well I can for sure do that but it will take time and will be a very lengthy response. It has been a cover up since day one that I can assure you. It's 4am here now so maybe tonight I can work on that. There are many links at ScaredMonkeys.net (http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.0) that hopefully will answer some of your questions as well as http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

I see you Yvonne..How are you? Not ignoring you

[ Bericht 1% gewijzigd door observer777 op 07-02-2008 10:09:29 ]

Here is a link to the ship and crew called the Persistence that hopefully brings Natalee home soon. They have been searching in the Aruban waters now for over two months!

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

4 AM, go get some sleep

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 22:27 schreef johan555 het volgende:
Official document


PROCES VERBAAL

We, Roland Ramiro TROMP and Clyde Anthony Burke, respectively inspector and sergeant first class, with the Korps Politie Aruba and attached to the section Often Occurring Crime District 2, state the following.

On June 23rd 2005, at approximately 14.30 hours, as a suspect, a man was interviewed who stated his name was: Paulus Antonius Petrus Johanna van der SLOOT, born in the Netherlands on February 15th 1952, judge (common court) and living at XXXXXXXX number XX on Aruba.

Before the interview the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT was informed that he was under no obligation to answer.

.....
...
...

P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT

After the suspect P.A.P.J. van der SLOOT had read his statement, he stated to us that he would persist in it and signed it.

Of this, we, the reporting officers, on our oath of office, have made this proces-verbaal, closed and signed in Noord on June 23rd 2005.


The reporting officers


R.R. TROMP C.A. BURKE

Do you have this Proces verbaal somewhere 'original' as imagefile just as the other proces verbaal at S.monkeys.
Is there a timeline of Paul vd Sloot somewhere at S.monkeys (or somwhere else)? If so can you point me to it?

iedere dag een nieuw deel openen vrees ik zo ha ha

I'm getting confused reading up on al these pages.


One thing that confuses me is the psychic version of the Natalee story.
Seems so different then what Joran sais, but then again so possible.

And then the part where Paulus is claimed to have said he picked Joran and Natalee up at 4 am!? Is that for real?

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 10:22 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:

[..]

Do you have this Proces verbaal somewhere 'original' as imagefile just as the other proces verbaal at S.monkeys.
Is there a timeline of Paul vd Sloot somewhere at S.monkeys (or somwhere else)? If so can you point me to it?

hier staan alle proces verbalen
http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/

een aantal ja
als het goed is komen er spoedig nog wat

2005 >

One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway's friends said Thursday.
Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates whowent to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

"There was almost a fight between my friend and him," said Reynolds, who was sitting in his car in the parking lot of Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday after attending a noon prayer service with his classmates and others. "I had to break them up. That's when I got a good look at them."

Van Der Sloot, the son of a Dutch justice official studying at the Aruba International School, and two Surinamese brothers identified by police as Satish and Deepak Kaploe, were arrested Thursday morning, more than a week after Holloway disappeared. The last known people to have seen Holloway, the suspects told police they gave her a ride to her hotel in the early morning hours of May 30, the night she vanished, and never saw her again.

Reynolds said he saw the suspects hanging out at the Holiday Inn where the Mountain Brook High School graduates stayed in Oranjestad. When Holloway went missing, Reynolds said they were the first people he considered as potential suspects.

"That was the first people who came to mind," said Reynolds, who said Holloway is one of his best friends.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 07:44 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

Well let me put it more directly then so you can understand it despite having your eyes closed and your ears stuffed.

People dont like to be lectured by strangers.

If that's it, I only gave my opinion, understated by an example I saw last week.

I'm done with SM, I don't care anymore. No reply from Klaas @ SM so far about the real reason of my ban.
Let them have their conspiracy's, I've got my own thoughts.
End.

I've been reading up on the police statements today.
And without reading updates of the passed few hours I have to make this post:

I'm getting the idear Deepak and Satish have got nothing to do with this all.
They are just 2 guys framed by there good friend Joran into telling a story that wasn't true. And the reason for that was because the 2 brothers where positive that Joran had nothing to do with the disapearing of Natalee because on the night it all happend Joran called (a.p. 3 AM) one of the brothers, telling that he was leaving the beach and left the girl there to sleep.
When the next day the girl ended up missing they didn't een think of Joran as a suspect, more as a idiot who left a foreign girl sleeping on a beach in the night.
Joran convinced them that if the police would come, they should have duplicate stories. And so they did.. leaving out the part where they dropped Joran and Natalee at the beach, and replacing it with the security guard story so that they would be off the hook.
After nearly a week of lying the brothers where sick and tired of it and confessed what happend.
Important detail is that Joran wanted the Kalpoe brother to tell the police that Natalee was drunk and could not walk up straight, but the fact is Natalee was on Cocaine and could handle the alcohol really well.
Also important to note, is that the 3 never informed father Paulus what really happend. Maybe Joran did without letting the brother know, but not that it seems like.
One person who he did tell that he left Natalee at the beach is Freddy Zedan. And in one confession deepak notices that when Joran leaves the room, Freddy talks to Deepak en tells him that even he is puzzled by why Joran leaves his shoes and the talk some more. This leaves me to think Freddy sure is not the guy from the boot.

If people are interested in solving, read these, i've come up to 6/13/05 now and its alot to read but very interesting especially if you look at the difference in details they make up everyday. The funny thing is they seem to fuck up on the parts where they told eachother to tell the same story :

http://hollowaycase.com/archive/

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 13:47 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

If that's it, I only gave my opinion, understated by an example I saw last week.

I'm done with SM, I don't care anymore. No reply from Klaas @ SM so far about the real reason of my ban.
Let them have their conspiracy's, I've got my own thoughts.
End.

I'm not sure when you sent the message but don't forget that most of the USA/Canada is still asleep or just waking up right now...

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 15:24 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Welcome to America

Ach, op een van de pagina's daar hebben ze de troefkaart: "En we hebben ze nog wel bevrijd in WO2 daar" al uitgespeeld,
en toen was ik klaar daar.

nou nou, net alsof er op Fok! nooit ongenuanceerde dingen over Amerika worden geroepen...

En laten we niet vergeten dat als wij ze niet hadden geholpen tegen de Engelsen er nu helemaal geen USA zou bestaan... (bij wijze van voorbeeld dan he) We waren nog het eerste land dat dat "land" als land erkend heeft ook....

*bite*

joran heeft steeds ontkent met haar gadanst te hebben
hier een verklaring van haar classmate

Two of Natalee's classmates were interviewed yesterday on O'Riley.

Yes, all of them were drinking, but "responsibly." They saw her dance with van der Slut, and then later saw her leave with him, but thought nothing of it.

Her roommate did notice she never returned that night, but waited until morning to notify others. Why didn't she notify people upon curfew? Because breaking curfew was common. The girl being interviewed said she herself stayed up hanging around the pool till 5am that fateful night.

As one radio commentator put it, these graduation trips are known to be alcohol/drugs/sex escapades. The graduates know it, the parents know it, everybody knows it.

My graduation escapade was grad night at Disneyland, a far cry from an overseas excursion to Aruba. How times have changed.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 17:38 schreef johan555 het volgende:
joran heeft steeds ontkent met haar gadanst te hebben
hier een verklaring van haar classmate

Two of Natalee's classmates were interviewed yesterday on O'Riley.

Yes, all of them were drinking, but "responsibly." They saw her dance with van der Slut, and then later saw her leave with him, but thought nothing of it.

Her roommate did notice she never returned that night, but waited until morning to notify others. Why didn't she notify people upon curfew? Because breaking curfew was common. The girl being interviewed said she herself stayed up hanging around the pool till 5am that fateful night.

As one radio commentator put it, these graduation trips are known to be alcohol/drugs/sex escapades. The graduates know it, the parents know it, everybody knows it.

My graduation escapade was grad night at Disneyland, a far cry from an overseas excursion to Aruba. How times have changed.

Niet relevant of noemenswaardig detail.
Maar Joran had niet echt met haar gedanst hoor, Natalee trok Joran naar de dansvloer maar die wou niet echt en bleef meer met haar praten.
T'is dus meer een opmerking dan een statement.

http://www.hollowaycase.com/archive/

Joran met dood bedreigd op YouTube

Joran van der Sloot wordt met de dood bedreigd in een videoclip op YouTube. [Inmiddels is de videoclip verwijderd op You Tube] Aanleiding voor de bedreigingen zijn diens jongste verklaringen in de zaak-Holloway. De videoclip heet ‘wie is hier nou koelbloedig’. In zijn tekst verwijst de zanger van het rapliedje naar de Antiliaanse gemeenschap, die volgens hem grote schade lijdt door ‘de leugens van Joran’. In het tweede tekstgedeelte de volledige uitzending van Peter R. de Vries op You Tube.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 15:58 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Ach, op een van de pagina's daar hebben ze de troefkaart: "En we hebben ze nog wel bevrijd in WO2 daar" al uitgespeeld,
en toen was ik klaar daar.

Mij best, als ze nu nog alle fietsen die de duitsers van ons hebben gejat in heavy ghadeffie superkikke mountainbikes terug geven met 21 versnellingen dan zeg ik nix meer...

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 09:57 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Here is a link to the ship and crew called the Persistence that hopefully brings Natalee home soon. They have been searching in the Aruban waters now for over two months!

http://nholloway.blogspot.com/

euh, what about natalee is been dumped to the other side of the island.
i mean, if she was dumped right in front of the marriot hotel, her body would drift onto the island.
but what if the guy sailed, 2 miles out en than around the island,opposite direction(eastside), he dumped her into the water, she would be ending up near Puerto rico.

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 17:46 schreef johan555 het volgende:
Joran met dood bedreigd op YouTube

Joran van der Sloot wordt met de dood bedreigd in een videoclip op YouTube. [Inmiddels is de videoclip verwijderd op You Tube] Aanleiding voor de bedreigingen zijn diens jongste verklaringen in de zaak-Holloway. De videoclip heet ‘wie is hier nou koelbloedig’. In zijn tekst verwijst de zanger van het rapliedje naar de Antiliaanse gemeenschap, die volgens hem grote schade lijdt door ‘de leugens van Joran’. In het tweede tekstgedeelte de volledige uitzending van Peter R. de Vries op You Tube.

Oh well...
Joran v.d. Sloot Diss

Comment: "This rap just made my dog fart..."

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 09:38 schreef observer777 het volgende:

We have seen so many people with other motives that twist the facts,derail the truth and trash NH and her family. You can find them at several sites under different names.

That's disgusting but a lot of people realize that.

Patrick van Eem, persona non grata in de USA

Man oh man oh man.
Childish..

quote:

Op donderdag 7 februari 2008 19:50 schreef yvonne het volgende:
Patrick van Eem, persona non grata in de USA

Man oh man oh man.
Childish..

Typical america