quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 08:54 schreef Caesu het volgende:
the scaredmonkeys (observer777 is moderator) site has a lot of valuable information.

there has really been a lot of indepth honest investigation over there i noticed just by glancing at the blog and forum.
but ofcourse also misinformation and speculation.

but that's what you get with such a complicated case with false confessions, statements being withdawn, potential cover up and all that.

problem is, the information is just overwhelming.
it might be a good idea for SM to make comprehensive summary of al the 'facts' with timelines and sources and everything.

i will be a hell of a job, but this way it is easier to get into all the information surrounding this case.
if more people (in the netherlands) get to know all the proven facts and propable theories it could ultimately reach the regular media and maybe even help solving the case...

or is there already such a summary on the SM-site? sorry for missing that...

(hetzelfde heb ik gepost op het scaredmonkeys-forum)

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2571.msg341185#msg341185

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 08:54 schreef Caesu het volgende:

it might be a good idea for SM to make comprehensive summary of al the 'facts' with timelines and sources and everything.

i will be a hell of a job, but this way it is easier to get into all the information surrounding this case.
if more people (in the netherlands) get to know all the proven facts and propable theories it could ultimately reach the regular media and maybe even help solving the case...

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:01 schreef santax het volgende:
An English topic on Fok!? Here breaks my wooden shoe from.
(back to onz for me it is.)

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:01 schreef santax het volgende:
An English topic on Fok!? Here breaks my wooden shoe from.
(back to onz for me it is.)

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 08:54 schreef Caesu het volgende:

it might be a good idea for SM to make comprehensive summary of al the 'facts' with timelines and sources and everything.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 08:29 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

- Joran wil scoren met Natalee
- Joren heeft zijn "love potion nr. 9" bij zich en doet dit in het drankje dat hij voor haar haalt (75% alcohol, was sowieso niet te zuipen, ze merkt de GHB niet).
- De drugs begint te werken en de jongens nemen een half bewusteloze Natalee mee. (volgens haar virendinnen was ze plots erg dronken)
- De broers zetten Joran en Natalee af bij het strand
- Natalee is out, Joran moet zich "behelpen" met een zo goed als bewusteloze Natalee

"Ik wilde dat ze mijn pik zoog" versus "Ook al vinden ze mijn sperma in haar"

- Joran stopt zijn penis in de mond van Natalee en bevredigd zichzelf
- Natalee's braakreflex wordt getriggerd en ze geeft over
- Natalee stikt in haar braaksel

- Joran raakt in paniek en belt "Daury"
- Daury = Paulus van der Sloot
- Paulus komt aan en constateert "Ze is overleden"
- Paulus stuurt Joran naar huis met instructies aan een alibi te beginnen
- Paulus heeft het lijk van Natalee laten verdwijnen

Denk persoonlijk dat dit het verhaal is.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:23 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:

[..]

Langzaam ben ik ook een beetje aan dit verhaal gaan denken.
iig dat die vader er een stuk meer vanaf weet. Toch moet dan nagetrokken worden of die vader theoretisch binnen die tijd dat zo gedaan zou kunnen hebben.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:23 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:

[..]

Langzaam ben ik ook een beetje aan dit verhaal gaan denken.
iig dat die vader er een stuk meer vanaf weet. Toch moet dan nagetrokken worden of die vader theoretisch binnen die tijd dat zo gedaan zou kunnen hebben.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:30 schreef Qwea het volgende:
Aah, here we are

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:42 schreef johan555 het volgende:
NorthernStar waarom is Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) gesloten of dicht ?
wordt zo wel een zooitje

nagegaan moet worden of Guido over een boot beschikte of kon beschikken
hij was immers ook in het casino als hulp croupier > staat zelfs op de casino foto's

en van wie is deze boot ? Gottenboes Boat staat erbij

[ afbeelding ]

foto van scared monkeys

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:42 schreef johan555 het volgende:
en van wie is deze boot ? Gottenboes Boat staat erbij

[ afbeelding ]

foto van scared monkeys

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:42 schreef johan555 het volgende:
NorthernStar waarom is Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) gesloten of dicht ?
wordt zo wel een zooitje

nagegaan moet worden of Guido over een boot beschikte of kon beschikken
hij was immers ook in het casino als hulp croupier > staat zelfs op de casino foto's

en van wie is deze boot ? Gottenboes Boat staat erbij

[ afbeelding ]

foto van scared monkeys

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:42 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

Now entertain us. .

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:58 schreef cptmarco het volgende:
I didn't read the complete previous topic, but does this scaredmonkey guy make any statements about the payphone which Joran said he used that night...

Was it there, can you only use for calls outside the island etc...?

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:23 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:

[..]

Langzaam ben ik ook een beetje aan dit verhaal gaan denken.
iig dat die vader er een stuk meer vanaf weet.

quote:

I just did a little refreshing of my memory with the car tape and am bringing this excerpt here, in light of recent events, for your thoughts..............


Joran: The only thing that I can think of is my family. I do what my family
tells me to do. Right, retard.
Deepak: Your own father, unbelievable.
Joran: What my father, it is your fault that he is arrested. I didn't
declare anything against my father, you two declared against my father
Satish: We didn't declare anything.
Joran: Or course, you did.
Satish: What did I tell against your father?
Joran: You are telling that he declared, that if there is no body [lijk =
dead body], there is no case or I don't what. All shit. That is totally not
true, the only thing is that he said is, if there is no body [lichaam =
body], then there isn't a case.
Deepak: Yes, that's true.
Joran: That's not true.
Deepak: I also said in my statement, that it wasn't meant like that.
Joran: Didn't read it in your statement. They use that now against my
father.
Deepak: We suffered a lot because of you.
Joran: That's the price that you let my father pay. That you let him suffer
like that. Fuck you. If you let me suffer, I say ok. It doesn't matter to
me. I can just sit here for 160 days. It doesn't make a fucking difference
to me. I'm sitting good here.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2571.msg341189#msg341189

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:42 schreef johan555 het volgende:
NorthernStar waarom is Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) gesloten of dicht ?
wordt zo wel een zooitje

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 09:27 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

Lijkt mij een te farfetched en ook te specifieke theorie, zonder dat je die kunt bewijzen. Northernstar heeft volgens mij een vrij onwaarschijnlijke theorie geproduceerd dus.
Overigens denk ik dat Paul van der Sloot helemaal geen rol speelt in het relaas.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:09 schreef Ticker het volgende:
Peter R made a good point yesterday, and looking at his face he was quite surprised himself that he figured it out that fast.
Joran called to the Pauw&Witteman show, making a statement that with the phone you can only call to other country's. I response peter said that the guy that supposed to help Joran dispose the body, might have had a duch phone. Knowing that he is staying in Holland right now, why not have an dutch sim-card.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:10 schreef johan555 het volgende:
Joran kan natuurlijk ook met Natalee's telefoon gebeld hebben en daarna weggegooid
deze man weet hierover meer volgens mij
[ afbeelding ]

CROES, Charles August II (DOB 9-15-45 USA) - Aruban cell phone business owner contacted by the Twittys to help them locate those who were seen with their daughter the night/early morning of May 29/30. Natalee reportedly made 2 calls in the early morning hours of May 30, 2005. Owner of cellular phone company DigiCell.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:13 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

But that guy didn't only use a Dutch sim card, he also actually was in Holland at the very same time, wasn't he?

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:15 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

If we assume that he is telling to truth.

But we can also assume that in Aruba there are lots of teens with dutch sim-cards. So it's not necessery that Joran called Audri, and it's probably that Joran is still lying about the real name of the person(s) who helped him.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:19 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

Jeah sure, but he could be lying about the death of Natalee also though. So absulely nothing is sure after Peter R's show. Perhaps he even killed her, perhaps he left her while she was still alive.
His confession was not a confession, I'm afraid.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:26 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

Sure it is. Better yes afcourse it is.
It would be a disgrace to say that with the hours footage you can not see that Joran is telling the outlines of the story.
Either that, or you just have an hard time telling if people are talking truth or trash.
Body language sais it all.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:19 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

Jeah sure, but he could be lying about the death of Natalee also though. So absulely nothing is sure after Peter R's show. Perhaps he even killed her, perhaps he left her while she was still alive.
His confession was not a confession, I'm afraid.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:30 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

What I saw was a fucked up kid, who wanted to make an impression on his friend, who was an cool, elderly, criminal.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:26 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

Sure it is. Better yes afcourse it is.
It would be a disgrace to say that with the hours footage you can not see that Joran is telling the outlines of the story.

quote:

Either that, or you just have an hard time telling if people are talking truth or trash.
Body language sais it all.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

He is telling the outlines of a particular story, in which facts are true and some facts are not true.
This makes the 'confession' that much harder; every statement Joran makes has to be backed up by proof, otherwise there is no telling if its the truth.
[..]

I disagree; its a well known fact Joran is a competent lyer and cheat. He has even been admitted for psych-care for his compulsive lying. This makes it very hard to just go with his statement and treat it as 'the truth'.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:35 schreef johan555 het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]

deze is boat owner en is iets ouder
GEERMAN, Marciano – Boat owner
GEERMAN MARCIANO L.G. SMITH BLVD. 544

http://www.morningstararuba.com/crew/crew.htm

quote:

I think he has a bad case of it too.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:10 schreef johan555 het volgende:
Natalee reportedly made 2 calls in the early morning hours of May 30, 2005. Owner of cellular phone company DigiCell.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:52 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:55 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

That's putting it mildly.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:00 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:
Als blijkt dat die Daury er echt niets mee te maken heeft dan blijven er wat mij betreft eventueel 2 opties open.
1- Joran is letterlijk doodsbang om te zeggen wie hem geholpen heeft (onderwereld figuren die het lichaam hebben opgeruimd en hem kapot maken als hij gaat praten)
2- Zijn vader heeft op 1 of andere manier ook meegeholpen in de verdwijning.

Omdat hij vaag doet over wie geholpen heeft en dus onschuldige kennissen verre/oude vrienden gaat aanvoeren als helpers. Net zoals hij die 2 broers ff meetrekt in zijn verhaal en die broers kon hij pas kort paar maanden dus die broers wisten ook niet precies wat joran voor een figuur is.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:35 schreef johan555 het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]

deze is boat owner en is iets ouder
GEERMAN, Marciano – Boat owner
GEERMAN MARCIANO L.G. SMITH BLVD. 544

http://www.morningstararuba.com/crew/crew.htm

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:08 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

I know, that's what made me laugh

He 's a clever enough to make good use of his * disorder *

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:14 schreef johan555 het volgende:
er is een lijst van " mogelijke" verdachten en daar staat hij wel op

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 10:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

He is telling the outlines of a particular story, in which facts are true and some facts are not true.
This makes the 'confession' that much harder; every statement Joran makes has to be backed up by proof, otherwise there is no telling if its the truth.
[..]

I disagree; its a well known fact Joran is a competent lyer and cheat. He has even been admitted for psych-care for his compulsive lying. This makes it very hard to just go with his statement and treat it as 'the truth'.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:08 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

1. Why should they do that service? Because Joran's father was a judge trainee?
2 There is no compelling reeason to suggest that that was the case imho. Of course people are trying to smear the reputation of Paul van der Sloot, or so I read. But is there really any ground to think that this Dutch judge trainee is in reality someone who, when he learns that a girlfriend of his son had died, would loose her body in the sea? That's so improbable.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:18 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

Have you even seen the broadcast in detail?

quote:

A person that spills his guts the first time he can talk about in, in such a rapid way is not lying.

quote:

It was the second day that Patrick brought it up again, and started asking for he name of the person.
The first day Joran talked about this person or people he named them 'higher powers" and a name 'he would take to the gave'.
The day after he migth have had a night sleep about it, thinkig that telling patrick the story in details isn't necessary and thus changing some names and people in this story.

quote:

You also seem to forget the way Joran reacted to Pauw&Witteman, the day the world got story about the hidden camera tapes, and asked him about it on phone.
He was stuttering, not knowing in what way this could inflict him, still believing Patrick is his friend.

quote:

I mean he told everyone he knew this girl is dead. Why act as a attorney for him by making stuff up that would only make the story more complicated then it is.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:28 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:36 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

O but I agree on that, Joran isn't telling the whole truth about how Natalee died.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:21 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:

[..]

1. Misschien...
2. Zoals ik al in een vorige post schreef lijkt het mij ook niet zeer waarschijnlijk dat die vader dat zelf heeft gedaan. Hij zou er eventueel wel bij betrokken geweest kunnen zijn, maar zoals ik ook weer eerder schreef moet de recherche onderzoek doen of de vader theoretisch de tijd had om te helpen of op een andere manier weet had van wat er afspeelde die nacht.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 12:36 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

My positoin is that it is not even close to subtility what their counterparts are doing. Paul is supposedly a womanizer and he drinks a lot, and so he must have knowledge of the drugs related underground on Aruba, and so he's apt to help his son in such a hot spot.
Probably this sort of assumption is created by Mrs.Twitty, the hard boiled christian. Not even only Joran is a bad peron, also his father must be (hey and he is suppossed to be a womanizer hey, and he drinks a lot hey), and hell even the whole of Holland must be.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 17:45 schreef johan555 het volgende:
here Natalee Holloway (in the rebound).

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 18:02 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
Omdat die observer een Canadees is ofzo

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 18:31 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
Tering, wat een hoop info staat er op die scared monkeys zeg... ben hard aan het bijlezen, dus ff tvp (sorry!)

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 11:18 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

Have you even seen the broadcast in detail?
A person that spills his guts the first time he can talk about in, in such a rapid way is not lying.
It was the second day that Patrick brought it up again, and started asking for he name of the person.
The first day Joran talked about this person or people he named them 'higher powers" and a name 'he would take to the gave'.
The day after he migth have had a night sleep about it, thinkig that telling patrick the story in details isn't necessary and thus changing some names and people in this story.

You also seem to forget the way Joran reacted to Pauw&Witteman, the day the world got story about the hidden camera tapes, and asked him about it on phone.
He was stuttering, not knowing in what way this could inflict him, still believing Patrick is his friend.
I mean he told everyone he knew this girl is dead. Why act as a attorney for him by making stuff up that would only make the story more complicated then it is.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 19:01 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Ik ben ook al de hele tijd daar aan het lezen...

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 19:43 schreef 3rr0r het volgende:

[..]

Just a a little comment:
If you look at the video, you'll notice that it's Patrick who first uses the words 'higher power'...then Joran repeats those words and says 'yeah higher power...higher powers'

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 19:55 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

nou, doe es een link dan

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 19:58 schreef Tennessee het volgende:

[..]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 19:59 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

3 popups

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 19:59 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

3 popups

quote:

Natalee was reported missing later that morning, after she failed to appear to appear for her group flight home. Her passport, phone, and luggage were all found in her hotel room; the only items missing were those she had on her when she left for Carlos 'n Charlie's.

quote:

Later that day, Joran and the Kalpoes each gave formal witness statements to police, in which Satish also claimed to have seen the security guard. According to former Aruban police chief Gerold Dompig, surveilance of the trio, which included phone wiretaps, began on the third day after Natalee was reported missing.

On June 5, 2005, police made their first arrests in the case: Two security guards, Abraham Jones and Antonious "Mickey" John, both of whom matched the general description provided by the Kalpoes. The guards were held until June 13.

quote:

On April 15, 2006, Aruban police arrested 19 year-old Geoffery von Cromviort, on suspicion of involvement in the disappearance. He was held until April 26, 2006. The exact reasons for Von Cromviort's detention were never publicly clarified: Apparently he and Joran did not know each other, and according to his attorney, he denied ever meeting Natalee. Another individual with initials "A.B." was arrested on April 22, 2006, but released the same day.

quote:

Guido Wever, a friend of Joran and former croupier at the Holiday Inn, was arrested in the Netherlands on May 17, 2006, becoming the tenth person to be detained in the Holloway case. Wever's arrest was based largely on statements given in early 2006, by several witnesses, who claimed he had scratches on his face in the days following the disappearance. However, Wever's attorney disputed those claims, and although Aruban authorities requested his transfer to the island, he was instead released on May 23.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 20:02 schreef Tennessee het volgende:

[..]

dan doe je iets niet goed, ik had er nul...

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 18:06 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[quote author=Frijole link=topic=2572.msg341259#msg341259 date=1202216748]
[quote author=Buckeye link=topic=2572.msg341256#msg341256 date=1202216180]
[quote author=Observer link=topic=2572.msg341254#msg341254 date=1202216065]
Mornin all,

I am off to work...Wanted to wish you all a good day!! Good to see you in the cage Eurobert!!

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 21:11 schreef Qwea het volgende:
Observer ; there are rumors that in Lorenzo's basement were found clothes of Natalee. Is this true?

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 19:06 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
The more I read on Scared Monkeys, the less I understand of Peter R de Vries' programme.

Question for our American/Canadian friends; How was the show received over there? What's your opinion of Peter R. de Vries and what he said?

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 17:22 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
I just read the first thread and I wonder what Observer thinks has happened to Natalee.

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 23:13 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Observer

Did you read the Dutch quote on last thread...to you??...they want you to organize info better...so they can find stuff easier....posted on that Dutch forum...


LOL We have almost 3 yrs worth of work! Leave it to the Dutch to want it orderly. Guess they are wanting to know more history, timeline stuff. At least we know they read here now.

OK so the Dutch are pissed, the Americans are pissed... any word on how the Arubans feel about Joran's interviews?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2572.msg341259#msg341259

Hello Caesu,

I agree that SM needs to be better organized and I will talk to the Admin about it..I have wanted to put all the information all together for quite awhile now..Just time consuming..It's all in my head and mostly on my computer so I want to share as much knowledge with my dutch friends as possible..Hope everyone is well?

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 23:54 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.

She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.

Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:25 schreef Caesu het volgende:

[..]

thanks!
i think it is great to keep a thread running over here in english.
maybe that way we can help to piece together what did happen those fatal days in may/june 05.
we can translate interesting bits about the case for example. or help with possible leads.

the amount of information on SM is just overwhelming like i said in my first post in this topic.
but slowly i am taking more information in.

what i am thinking these last few days. i am struggling with the cover up theory.

if there is a massive cover up: why would all these people in (some in high positions / higher powers) risk their careers / relationships / even aruban economy just to keep this snotty lying bastard JvdS of the hook???
because his dad is also involved. what's so special about Paul vdS to risk all that for the 'high powers'?
of course there must be a lot more to it then with a lot of people involved.
but why doesn't somebody chicken out then, because Joran can screw them all for a lesser sentence.
or does Joran himself even not know about the cover up.

i am really just scratching the surface...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:35 schreef Klummie het volgende:

[..]

Do u have any evidence for this? Innocent until proven ( without any reasonable doubt) quilty.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Yes,Innocent until proven guilty..I can show you why there is more than strong suspicion that is exactly what happened. But I am on the internet like you are and not a Aruban Police Detective.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:25 schreef Caesu het volgende:

[..]

what i am thinking these last few days. i am struggling with the cover up theory.

if there is a massive cover up: why would all these people in (some in high positions / higher powers) risk their careers / relationships / even aruban economy just to keep this snotty lying bastard JvdS of the hook???

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:35 schreef Klummie het volgende:

[..]

Do u have any evidence for this? Innocent until proven ( without any reasonable doubt) quilty.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:43 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

If he had bulletproof evidence, would he be talking to us or the authorities right now?

Besides, this is not a court of law but an internet forum. We are posting personal opinions and sharing information, we are not in the role of prosecutors. Its irrelevant.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:35 schreef Klummie het volgende:

[..]

Please show us, we r very curious

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:02 schreef observer777 het volgende:

This is a small tidbit but very peculiar..You have a show called Opsporing Verzocht which is like our Americas Most Wanted..Normally they get actors they look very similar to the criminals they portray..So people will recognize them and come forward. But when this show was done in Aruba they had a black islander playing the role of Joran..Not only did he not look anything like him but he was older a different race. We were told the higher powers in Aruba restricted what the dutch program could do and made them pick from people just in the police academy. This is absurd..How could they pick this guy to portray the main suspect a dutch white guy in the biggest murder case ever in Aruba..Why would they do this? Does this look anything like Joran Van Der Sloot? This was just one of the many things that made everyone sick who watched this story broadcasted in the Netherlands.
Opsporing Verzocht is een opsporingsmiddel van politie en justitie. Deze twee diensten bepalen de inhoud van het programma tot in elk detail.

Opsporing verzocht is a tool to solve crimes for the police and DA's office. They decide the content of the show into the smallest detail
----------------------------------
Actor who played Joran Van Der Sloot in Opsporing Verzocht Reenactment of the Natalee Holloway case in Aruba
[ afbeelding ]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.

She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.

Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:03 schreef observer777 het volgende:
I really believe these may be important clues into what happened to Natalee. I know Joran's American Lawyer has said that the VCB shirt found had forensic material on it and has been linked to Natalee's case. Why they waited a year to arrest GVC I have no idea..
On June 5th 2005 a Bloody Mattress was found on the southern tip of the island called grapefield beach,it was saturated with Blood with a dead dog found near it. Within 3 hours the Arubans said it was dogs blood and not linked to the case. Also found were a pair of sandals. This was the same day the 2 innocent security guards were arrested.

On June 6th 2005 in the colony area also the southern part of the island A VCB Security shirt(Rumored to have blood on it)was found with styraphone with teeth marks,a pair of sunglasses and suspicious materials inside of a lysol bottle. There was also a phone call on this day alerting people to search another area called weg fontein. Aruban officials have never stated that the findings are not related to Natalees dissapearance.

[ afbeelding ]

On June 7th Awemainta newspaper said Natalee was dead..The next day they said they made a mistake and that it was a 17 yr old male who died and not Natalee.

[ afbeelding ]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:43 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

If he had bulletproof evidence, would he be talking to us or the authorities right now?

Besides, this is not a court of law but an internet forum. We are posting personal opinions and sharing information, we are not in the role of prosecutors. Its irrelevant. (the Innocent until proven part)

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:54 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

You're saying: Holloway suffered a massive head injury at Joran's den. So I suppose there's forensic (DNA proof) evidence to back this up? And if so, why is this fact unknown to the public? Why didn't police and state attorney's do anything with this information, but instead seem to believe Joran's version in which Natalee dies at the beach.
And what happened to Joran's younger brother (who allegedly was also at the main building of the Van der Sloot estate and sleeping) while their father disposed the body and instructed Joran, Deepak and Satish? Did he sleep through it all? Or is he an accomplish?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:56 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

Have you ever been to Aruba yourself?
Everywhere along the coastline is rubbish, how many shoes and shirts do you want?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.

She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.

Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:21 schreef THEFXR het volgende:

[..]

i don't believe this, if so many people were involved, somebody, had already talked/confess a long time ago.
i know someone who has been convicted of murder, there were 5 people involved, he was betrayed, thats why he got caught!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:20 schreef observer777 het volgende:

Haha..Yes I am sure the tide brings in a lot of shoes,shirts and debris the tourists and natives leave behind. How often do they have Mattresses saturated with blood and a dog slaughtered next to it?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:32 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Hallo,Did it happen in Aruba? I am telling you he did confess in his second day under arrest!! This case was solved in June 2005,I am sure of it! They do not want the truth to come out and they have protected this kid and his father since day one. It is mind boggling though,because I do feel that many people know what happened.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:32 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

Not much, but I am on Aruba right know and if I will do a search today I'm sure I will find at least one of these 2 items...

BTW. Can you tell me why Americans are so rude to Aruba?
Before this case many Americans came to the island and now they keep away. Only 5 US cruise ships out of 10 before still entering the harbour of Oranjestad.
Are those people all so hypocrital as I think/know they are? Never heared about the murdered people in their own country which cases are also never solved?

Are you admin at SM? iI so, can you add me to the forum? I'm waiting for approval...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:11 schreef observer777 het volgende:

Hi!! Well those two items will be in your newspapers from those days..I researched every newspaper and saved what was still available..I have never seen the pic of the bloody mattress..They said it wasnt related and was never talked about again.

quote:

It is a difficult discussion,I know Arubans have met them and they are nice good people..I know all to well about the MEP in your Govt and I dont blame the good people of Aruba..Is tourism down in Aruba? You really have to understand what we have seen come out of Aruba since June 2005..Just a few weeks ago..Minister Briesen and Rudy Croes invited these two fake psychics to Aruba and they were in every newspaper,tele-aruba and Top 95 lying about the most evil things about Natalee and her Family..They offered no proof then left the island..Did you see that? It's just one small example of what some Americans have seen. Julia Renfo of Aruba Today and others have truly done the most despicable acts and lies I have ever seen in my life to Natalee and her family

quote:

I truly am sorry that it is affecting the innocent Aruban people,I wish to god they could oust that Govt and finally give this girl a honest investigation. As far as the tourist from America that go to Aruba..I find it amazing they would come to your country and be rude!! I am a Moderater at SM and if you give me your name I will get you approved..Please try to understand there are ignorant americans as there are Arubans..If you ever have a problem please let me know. There isnt many Arubans posting there as most dissapeared way back in june 2005..I miss seeing them!!

quote:

Please try to see what I see..But in July 2005 the Aruban's didn't protest vs the awful investigation instead they protested vs Natalee's Mom..One person even came on camera told the family to shut up,get over it and go home.I know it was Govt organized so I dont blame you at all..Just showing you what we have seen from your country since 2005..Very few have stepped up and demanded answers and a honest investigation.
[ afbeelding ]
[ afbeelding ]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:33 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

Never heared about it before, but that's not the point here.
[..]

I've seen those 2 shrinks, but I didn't knew they were invited by the Aruban gouvernment...
I'm not from Aruba myself, I'm from Amsterdam, Holland. I'm on Aruba right now, visiting friends who work in the tourism section of the island and they really feel the dropdown of American tourists every day.
Ofcourse, there are good and bad people all around the world, but why are the US people keep bashing whole Aruba and it's economical position for this case? Are they all guilty, did they all helped Joran van der Sloot or...?
I visit Aruba very often and although I don't want to say that there is no corruption or anything like that at all, I think corruption is everywhere (also in the US) and that's what i call the hypocritical part of the story...
[..]

The US people that vist Aruba aren't that rude, I mean some people at the SM forum (you don't need quotes I think), the governeur of Alabama, other politicians and those TV-people like Oprah and Dr. Phil. They all had their words about Aruba and it's very easy to bring a small island/country in disgrace. But do they know what they are doing? I guess not...

I registered under the nick 'MadMaster' @ SM.
Please let me in...
[..]

For me personal, I want a good investigation too.
To be honoust, imo Beth Twitty made a fool of herself after Natalee was lost. I understand, nobody wants to see her daughter disappear, but the way she acted at that time (against Aruba once more...) was foollish and understandable that some locals were protesting against her.

I'm not sure if the Aruban gouverment is really involved the way you say.
Maybe they did work not very well, maybe Joran is just smart enough. The whole is watching them again right now with all problems that comes with it. I know Aruba is not happy with case and it doesn't do them any good. So why would they cover the case while they know their economical position will dropp again after it was climbing up a little last year?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:59 schreef observer777 het volgende:

We should maybe chat on a PM..We have a lot to talk about..It's simple the Defense,Prosecution,Police and Judges all worked together to protect these pimps and cover up a murder of a young girl. Then the Aruban Govt has spent much money on a campaign to slander,lie and spread wrong information about this poor family and her daughter who was murdered..At the same time they depend on Americans for 70% percent of the total revenue for that island..Natalee did not run away to brazil,her father did not impregnate her,she was not a drug addict,she did not run away!!!!!!!!etc etc etc..

Like I stated the good people of Aruba should not suffer and I feel bad for them but something has to give here. No one has tried to help this poor girl and her family except Jossy Mansur. It has been relentlis from the ATA,AHATA and fake Aruban reporters spreading horrendous info about this murdered victim and her family. ATA has no business being involved in a murder investigation!! They have never stopped!! I disagree totally about Beth acting foolish..Do you have any idea what she has been through? Why was Paul Van Der Sloots best friend allowed to lead a murder investigation for his best friend and his son? I could go on and on..The conflict of interest was enormous and Beth suffered big..Her daughter will never be coming home.

I am sorry about rude posters!! I have seen many Arubans and Americans in Aruba doing the same thing! Lets be civil and talk this out..

You have been approved at SM!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 04:36 schreef observer777 het volgende:
See you at SM..I hope you can see our point of view..Many of the posters there have followed this case since 2005 and are extremely knowledgeable about most everything that has happened. I hope it is a good learning experience for everyone.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 05:37 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

I'm sorry for being 'different', but I'm not gonna tell a different story overthere then I do overhere...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:47 schreef Yavido het volgende:

[..]

A good advice, don't give this guy too much credits. He's provocate all the time in discussions with his 'evidence' argument.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:33 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

I'm on Aruba right now, visiting friends who work in the tourism section of the island and they really feel the dropdown of American tourists every day.
Ofcourse, there are good and bad people all around the world, but why are the US people keep bashing whole Aruba and it's economical position for this case? Are they all guilty, did they all helped Joran van der Sloot or...?
I visit Aruba very often and although I don't want to say that there is no corruption or anything like that at all, I think corruption is everywhere (also in the US) and that's what i call the hypocritical part of the story...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 06:07 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

I want people from Aruba and Holland to post over at SM..Trust me many Americans don't know very much about the case and only see what the American media has shown and it has been awful coverage with people that know nothing about the case. You are doing good and I appreciate you talking to so many with so many questions..But I think you don't know everything about this case and what we all have been through..I hope you take a interest because over and over again I see scared people in Aruba that truly don't even know what took place in there own country. Some do,but most don't!!

Like that poster was trying to tell you,the OM kept asking Natalee's Family if she had seizures just a few days after she dissapeared..She never ever had any history of that and the Family thought it was strange the Aruban Authorities kept asking them that!! We all saw in Joran's Confession with De Vries he said the same thing and he acted out her shaking violently before she died..I am telling you Joran confessed back in June 2005 and this was all covered up!!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 05:46 schreef BwennieBren het volgende:
Hi observer777,

You seem to have a lot of information about this case. I would like to ask you the following questions. Maybe you have the answers.
------------------------------------------
Hi,I hope you are sincere and not coming from one of the anti-beths site or are you just misinformed?
Where have you been reading about this case? You really need to go to another blog!! You can't believe a word from the Mouth of Julia Renfro!! She is a proven liar and she is sinister! I am tired so I will do this quickly off the top of my head.
-------------------------------------------
1. Why was this initial poster put up if Beth immediately knew (so she said on TV) that her daughter was harmed or kidnapped? Did she think Natalee was still alive then?
-----------------------------------------
That poster was made by Julia Renfro and Angela M..That is there cell numbers on the posters which they lied about in the video you posted! She probably thought she was alive,she had no reason to lose all hope that first few days.Natalee was a goody two shoes and I would have thought the same thing if Natalee was my daughter. Natalee did not do drugs,never run away before and was a str8 A student. What was she supposed to put on the fliers? Why has Julia Renfro deliberately lied about this murdered victim and her Family? For money or because she is friends of the sloots?Why did she tell the Family Natalee was confirmed dead and to show up at the courthouse for a press conference just a few days after NH dissapeared?Only when they showed up no one was there. Why was she spreading rumors almost daily that Natalee ran away to other countries,ran away with a blue eyed dutch boy? I could write a full page of her lies,she is one sick person!

which is later replaced by this poster:


2. Why were the friends of Natalee not questioned by the Aruban police and immediately flew home the day after Natalee went missing?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Look the kids had scheduled flights home were they supposed to miss all there flights? They didn't even realize Natalee was missing until they were all getting ready to go the airport. They were all questioned extensively by the FBI and later the ALE I beleive,the answers do not lie in Mountain Brook and if someone thinks so they are sadly mistaken. What are they supposed to know about what Joran and the Kalpoes brothers did to her? They were the last ones seen with her and were caught lying immediately.
The Aruban police didn't even take Jug Twitty's statement for like 30 days and others that were there that first night there statements were never taken. The lead investigator Dennis Jacobs was caught changing Beths statement..Can you believe that? When she went back at a much later date they promised her she could make a new statement but instead grilled her on insurance money and dealings with Colombians..Unreal huh? Did you know what lead investigator dennis jacobs asked Natalee's dad when they first met? How much money do you have? Told him to go to Carlos and Charlies and not worry about searching,she will show up,go have a beer,but watch your dink because people put drugs into them!!
3. What happened to the Mr. Joe Mammana who helped Beth in her search for Natalee?
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Not sure..Do you know? I think he took interest because he helps missing and exploited people..Why do you ask? This guy just wanted to help and has nothing to do with anything.
4. It took 6 months for Natalees name te be on the FBI's missing persons list? Do you maybe know why?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm..Good question..You should ask them..
5. What does Scared Monkeys think about the boycot of Aruba in November 2005 of Gov. Riley[/url] (see: and the Twitty's, while Aruba probably did ]everything possible[/url] to help the Twitty - Holloway family in their search for Natalee?
That while Jug Twitty has send ]this letter[/url] To Gov Riley in august 2005?
------------------------------------------------------------------
SM mostly in in full support of a boycott and ask's all americans to stop traveling until Natalee finally gets a honest Investigation and the Aruban Authorities expose the cover up and stop protecting those that murdered Natalee.. But I can't speak for everyone..You should ask them! What was the Family supposed to do?They were already threatened by the lead prosecuter and the mnister of justice that they would stop the case if the family didnt stop complaining. Every hope they had of ever seeing there daughter again rested in the hands of the Arubans..They were helpless and it was absolutely shocking what the Aruban Authorities did to this poor family and natalee.The conflict of interest is unbelievable and so was the cover up. Why was Jan Van Der Straaten allowed to lead the Investigation when his best friend and son were arrested on suspicion of rape,murder and kidnapping? Is it coincidence that they were allowed to roam free for 10 days while they tried to frame to innocent men? You know on June 1st everyone knew they were lying about where they dropped of the girl but still they were allowed to destroy evidence and cover up?
6. Is it true that Gerald Dompig couldn't do a research on the background of the Holloway-Twitty's and was threatened by the FBI because of that?
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I don't work for the FBI but this guy Dompig lost all credibility..He has zero. He was trying to dig up dirt and the FBI wanted no part of his dirtball tactics and disinformation campaign..Reminds me of the chief prosecuter who wrote the justice dept in usa asking about beths relation to hitler and if they traveled to austria. What did that have to do with anything? Didnt Jorans Lawyer a few weeks into the Investigation confess to her that Joran played a major role in Natalee's dissapearance but it was up to her to prove it? Isnt that illegal? Did KJ do anything about hearing that info?Dompig? The same guy who said JK2 were guilty as hell?Same guy who on 4 consecutive interviews told completely different things? Same guy who's brother in law help set up two innocent men and distract attention away from the real killers? Same brother in law who said he saw Natalee with cocaine?Dompig,Same guy who asked to block the search of the Van Der Sloot home and was accused by Judge Wit of obstructing justice? Isnt he related to the Kalpoes also?
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7. What do you think about this Dutch documentary of Netwerk (aired on July 5th 2007) about the case?
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Thats not a dutch documenatry..Arent those people from Aruba lying about the case and friends of the Van Der Sloots? Isn't that Julia Renfro,AngelaM and Rene'e Guilen?Everything in here is a complete lie!! These people really should be in prison for lying,slandering and obstructing a murder investigation..What they are doing to a victim and her family is criminal..I guess people will do anything for money Some people may just be plain evil.

I'm just curious. I hope you or SM have some answers on my questions. Thanks in advance
-------------------------------------------------------
Your welcome..I hope I dont come off rough and believe me I have a ton more to say..I am tired and it's late and this awful campaign and lies have been going on for 32 months now..I hope this answered your questions. I was honest and I hope you are the same.
Now I go to sleep I hopefully will read you answer later

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 06:07 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Like that poster was trying to tell you,the OM kept asking Natalee's Family if she had seizures just a few days after she dissapeared..She never ever had any history of that and the Family thought it was strange the Aruban Authorities kept asking them that!! We all saw in Joran's Confession with De Vries he said the same thing and he acted out her shaking violently before she died..I am telling you Joran confessed back in June 2005 and this was all covered up!!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:43 schreef Klummie het volgende:

[..]

Did Joran also had something to do with 9-11?

I like ur paranoia, u r telling stories that r interesting to read but they don't contain any evidence, just another conspiracy theory. Pity it seems like u start to beleive it.
I did not ead the enitre topic but have u also looked at the stories about natalee being abused by her stepfather and maybe was even pregnant from him?
And far as i'm concerned also that story is just a theory without any proof. Just like every other story about this case.

I don't like joran, he's scum just like a lot of american and dutch teenage boys and me bush, but without evidence, he is already convicted by 'the people' . Totally disgusting.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:58 schreef Caesu het volgende:

[..]

this is really unbelievable!!!
joran MUST have told them.

i suspect the were trying to make it into a 'kind of' natural death.
but somehow that didn't work. because of course more happened to natalee, that's why she needed to be disposed of.
but that's already established.

but this is proof that the knew what happened right from the beginning.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:01 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Hi Klummie!! Everything I say I can back up!! I wouldn't be here if I couldn't and I will provide as much evidence as I can that is real and can be proven to a degree here on the internet..For some reason I get the feeling that I may never be able to prove anything to you? Please let me know now before I waste my time with you. I don't like conspiracy theories at all trust me..

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:21 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

The principle reason for it was to put pressure on "the authorities" to put their weight behind solving the case. Making them choose between covering up for the perpetrators or the economy of Aruba. If its apparently a game of interests, not one of justice, then ok lets play the game of interests and see when the declining tourism becomes a factor.

quote:

I really cant condemn Beth, the family and the people around them for starting this campaign against Aruba (and the Netherlands).

quote:

Beth is a mother fighting for her child, she's going to use whatever means she's got.

quote:

She didnt have a whole lot of options either. Put pressure on "the powers that be" by hitting them in the purse. Maybe it was even hoped the people of Aruba themselves would start demanding a resolution.

quote:

I do think that people like Doctor "I edit creatively" Phil and Bill "the Dutch have sex breaks during work" O'Reilly where way off. But then again, integrity and television is mostly an oxymoron anyway.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:43 schreef Klummie het volgende:

[..]

Did Joran also had something to do with 9-11?

I like ur paranoia, u r telling stories that r interesting to read but they don't contain any evidence, just another conspiracy theory. Pity it seems like u start to beleive it.
I did not ead the enitre topic but have u also looked at the stories about natalee being abused by her stepfather and maybe was even pregnant from him?
And far as i'm concerned also that story is just a theory without any proof. Just like every other story about this case.

I don't like joran, he's scum just like a lot of american and dutch teenage boys and me bush, but without evidence, he is already convicted by 'the people' . Totally disgusting.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:31 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

Well the cover up theory is of course a "conspiracy theory" in the actual meaning of the word but I understand what you mean. Labeling it "just another conspiracy theory" is just a easy way to dismiss and discredit it without actually having to give any arguments. And dismissing it a a conspiracy theory and then bringing up the blatant disinfo about Natalee being abused by her stepfather? Talk about conspiracies.

quote:

I would like to hear Klummies explanation for why the OM did research a family history of seizures right in the beginning.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

I agree. These investigations that people do are mostly based on blurs of stories, mixed together with some vague statements from people that are acclaimed to be in on the conspiracy.
I find that hard to believe, and like to remain critical against these stories, except that if you do ever critize these people, you are immediately accused of being 'anti-Holloway' or some other stereotype of person. That really gives the whole discussion an personal twist that is unnessecary imo.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:32 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:46 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

In time If you are being honest I will prove everything to you. These are hardly stories I posted and I consider much of it fact..You should give me a chance.. All the evidence matches up that I speak of..Believe me,Natalee's parents have zero reason to lie about anything. The statements of Aruban officilas and suspects are important because it proves they are lying..You can't dispute that. You can't argue with what came out of there mouth in the newspapers and on TV and then told something totally different or the facts prove otherwise. I am not here to BS anyone at all,I have better things to do with my time..

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:47 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

If Beth or anyone else has broken the law then they should be prosecuted. I dont think she has. Now you may morally condemn a boycott campaign, thats fine, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. Mine is that I dont hold it against her. On the contrary, her fighting spirit makes her admirable imo. And what other options did she have in your opinion? With all the corruption and crookedness going on? She had the media and public opinion and has used it for her cause. Good for her!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:50 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

As they would say in the Matrix; 'You believe want you want to believe'.
Interesting, if you are talking about psychical evidence, in what form are we talking about? Do you have tapes/recordings of the claims that are made? Have you been in Aruba yourself? Or did you collect evidence from other sites/sources?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:52 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

You are absolutely right about this. Except I don`t find it very good that one person can damage a whole island/country for trying to get the truth. In the process, a lot of innocent people are hurt, by both Beth and Joran imo.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:59 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Like I already stated I do not work for the Aruban Police Dept or KLPD..I don't have access to the dossier that they have refused to show the Family of Natalee. I have done everything possible on my end to solve this case and doing research..It's up to you if you want to believe the pain staking research done by many. I can't prove to you anything if you aren't willing to listen. I didn't come here to argue,I simply came here to share information in hopes of helping put together the final pieces of this puzzle.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:03 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

Yes well it is a question of ethics or morality. Would I have done the same? In a second. You said she doesnt have any special privileges. I think it could be argued that parents of missing children, most likely victims of a crime in that respect do have certain privileges. They are "allowed" a bit more to get answers - from a moral point of view. Besides, when it comes to it who really damaged the image of Aruba?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

I agree. These investigations that people do are mostly based on blurs of stories, mixed together with some vague statements from people that are acclaimed to be in on the conspiracy.
I find that hard to believe, and like to remain critical against these stories, except that if you do ever critize these people, you are immediately accused of being 'anti-Holloway' or some other stereotype of person. That really gives the whole discussion an personal twist that is unnessecary imo.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:04 schreef Caesu het volgende:

de stiefvader zegt hier in dit radioprogramma dat een paar dagen na natalee's verdwijning de politie hem vele keren vroeg of natalee weleens epileptische aanvallen had gehad. jug twitty onkende dit en begreep maar niet waarom ze dat vroegen. wat had dit met de zaak te maken?

quote:

nu in de tapes van peter r. de vries vertelden en laat joran zien hoe natalee zat te shaken en te trillen.
dit moet joran dus al vanaf het begin aan de politie hebben verteld!!!

quote:

anders vragen ze het niet herhaaldelijk aan jug twitty toch terwijl hij zegt dat natalee dit nooit gehad heeft?
hoe komen ze daar anders bij?

quote:

joran heeft dus al meteen begin juni 2005 bekend.
waarschijnlijk probeerde de politie er zo een natuurlijke dood van te maken zodat het geen ernstige zaak was die toerisme kon schaden.
maar dit lukte allemaal niet want het was geen natuurlijke dood - duidelijk aan het lichaam te zien, daarom moest het gedumpt worden.

quote:

luister maar naar het radioprogramma, we hebben ook naar joran geluisterd afgelopen zondag.
dit is cruciaal imo.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:12 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

Misschien heeft Joran er iets over gezegd dat ze eerder in de avond zoiets had, of hebben haar vriendinnen zoiets gezegd...het is redelijk standaard dat ze zulke dingen vragen hoor, alleen vragen ze het meestal maar 1 keer.
[..]

Of Joran heeft deze tapes ook geluisterd en verspreid desinformatie, in lijn met deze tapes.
[..]

Zoals ik al zei; standaard protocol, behalve het herhaaldelijk vragen.
[..]

Dat is een snelle conclusie en wat veronderstellingen, daar waag ik me niet aan.
[..]

Mwah. Zo cruciaal is het niet, het is echter vreemd dat er herhaaldelijk word gevraagd over deze ziekte. Wat de man echter niet zegt; hebben ze naar meer ziektes gevraagd, en vroeg dezelfde persoon meerdere malen dezelfde vraag?

Dat zijn cruciale vragen imo.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:08 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

I`m not critizing your work, in the contrary. The police dossiers are always confidential, no family or victim ever gets access to that, thats standard protocol (in spite of what you see on the tv-series where it is common)

Its not a matter of "willing to believe". I just find it fascinating that the other theory`s that are mentioned here are based on some form of evidence that is vague in its description.
And it is arbitrary that you are working for a good cause, i`m not trying to delude your research, I was just curious how you have come to these conclusions and with what evidence.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:09 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

From Jug Twitty on SM Radio 2-6-08
JUG: This thing has been a coverup since day one. They knew Natalee wasn't alive since the second day. They keep asking if Natalee was an epileptic.

Good Morning,They knew this and a whole lot more! Yes,they came out last year to the world saying Natalee died of a cocaine overdose and killed herself. It was all over the American TV here..They did something terrible to the girl thats for sure..If it was a natural death or overdose why the need to get rid of her body forever?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:25 schreef Caesu het volgende:

[..]

heb je er al naar geluisterd?
programma is 6 uur geleden uitgezonden (03:00). dus Joran heeft het iig niet gehoord ten tijde van z'n betekentenis tegen Patrick en al helemaal niet ten tijde van z'n bekentenis tegen de politie op Aruba.

quote:

kan jij een reden verzinnen waarom ze dit herhaaldelijk aan haar stiefvader vragen en hij ontkent dit en ze vragen het weer?
dit moet bij joran vandaan komen denk ik dan.

quote:

op scaredmonkeys zijn ze al vanaf dag 1 er mee bezig. ze weten enorm veel van de zaak af. neem dat maar van observer777 aan. de beschrijving van de gebeurtenissen door joran klopt vrij aardig met hun theorie, dit hoor je ook in het radioprogramma van afgelopen nacht.
ik raad echt aan er naar te luisteren.
nu heb je alleen joran gehoord afgelopen zondag, daar hoor een andere kant van het verhaal.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:26 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Thankyou! It is just very time consuming for each subject you want proof of..If you want proof that very credible Aruban Officials said there was blood in Deepaks car..I will gather everything here and post it..If you want proof that Joran confessed on June 10th 2005..I will do the same..These aren't theories that I have posted I think the evidence speaks for it's self and we have known about most of this for well over two years..If I am speculating or theorizing I will tell you,I try not to do that very often..When someone asked me what I thought happened to Natalee,I gave my opinion and speculated a bit on that. But I have read and seen most everything on this case and have researched it for 32 months..I don't mind doing the work..

I understand your point of view..If someone approached me and told me something I have never seen before I would certainly want proof as well. If you are curious about something and you think I am wrong and I am guessing or speculating..Please let me know..I understand you have never seen me before and it sounds like I am showing vague descriptions,I will do my best to show you why I am so confident about the things we have talked about. Believe me I have seen so many weirdos,people deliberately spreading wrong info,so many opinions and people that speculate on what they think. I am not one of those people. I just want this solved so I can move on.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:12 schreef Caesu het volgende:

[..]

if beth didn't organise such a campaign to find what happened to her daughter but instead just waited in Alabma for Aruba to solve this.
if there was no boycott.
if there was such a big news 'hype' about it.

i doubt Peter R. de Vries would have picked this case up.
and i doubt Patrick would have come forward.

but i am sure Joran would have been roaming around causing trouble and getting away with it.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:29 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

Dus de stiefvader heeft na de bekentenis van Joran over de epilepsie aanval nu verklaard dat ze hem dat gevraagd hebben, 3 jaar geleden? Is er meer bewijs waaruit blijkt dat de stiefvader dit al eerder heeft verklaard? Want anders zou de stiefvader zo`n verklaring kunnen afleggen om Joran nog verder in het nauw te drijven.
[..]

Zie de post hierboven.
[..]

Ik heb het geluisterd, maar ik vind het nog steeds een hele hoop beredenaties die niet gestoeld zijn op bewijs. De verklaringen waarover gesproken worden, zijn die na te lezen? Van de "officials" van Aruba?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:38 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

She would know nothing. She would know about the same as Max De Vries Mom,Buddy Larson's Family,Gary Markings Family and a host of others that dissapeared or died under suspicious circumstances in Aruba..The Aruban Govt thought this would all go away after a few days but they ran into the love of a mother and father and there will to find out what happened to her daughter. Of Course the media attention helped big time.

Have any of you read Beth's,Dave's or Jorans book? All of them were very interesting to read especially Daves...Did you know Anita wrote a book as well over 6 months ago? She hasn't released it yet but it has already been written. What did you guys think of Paul Van Der Sloots big plans to sue the Govt of Aruba again? I seee Joran talked about that in the De Vries show. He was expecting a fat settlement!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:44 schreef Caesu het volgende:

[..]

hele programma duurt meer dan een uur.
op internet is natuurlijk helemaal geen 'echt' bewijs te vinden.

dit is een bericht van december 2007:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2463.msg319778#msg319778
"Jug said that the cops kept asking me if Natalee was epileptic...."
hoe oud die quote is weet ik niet. maar ook dat kan je zelf uitzoeken door die quote te traceren op die site.

maar ik heb me nog lang niet ingelezen in de materie.
op scaredmonkeys is zoveel te vinden. niet allemaal te bewijzen. ook misinformatie. ongetwijfeld bar slechte speculaties. het is jammer dat het een rommeltje is daar.
ze zijn er vanaf het begin mee bezig. ik ga je nergens van overtuigen.
maar ik zou zeggen verdiep je er eens echt goed in. er wordt daar echt een eerlijke poging gedaan helderheid in de zaak te krijgen.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.

She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.

Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:29 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

They did make alot of statements that did not add up.
I heard many different stories about what happend to Natalee. Especially in the beginning, and i think that was one of the reasons why it caught the attention of so many people.
But when I compare this to some other missing person: Madeline, I also see the media "falsely" claming that the parents where involved while weeks later they all of a sudden are not.

So what really is the deal here.
Do i really think they brought the body back to the house, and that is the reason why people claim they have seen the 2 brothers (Satish & Deepak) clean the car?
No, they probably used drugs in the car or did some shit before Natalee got missing and they where scared the police would find out once they started looking for Natalee's DNA in the car.

Joran said himself he didn't know these 2 guys that long, and he said they weren't the brightest 2 on Aruba.
But then again, the first time they got arrested they blamed the murder of Natalee on Joran, and told the police that Joran had a sick mind.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:57 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Thank you for your answer.

Didnt Natalees friend say she was drunk, because they had been drinking all day. Didnt Joran say she was drunk? Didnt others say she was drunk? Plus, she drank 75% Bacardi. Tell me, when someone is already wasted, why the fuck would you use GHB?


And now about the boycot and all;
Hmm, hmm. We sent like F16s and half an army to Aruba, didnt we? + Peter r de Vries who has been working on the case + police arresting whoever had to be arrested etc etc

And THEN get a lot of bullshit from America? How terrible we are and what not. And you approve and even agree with that? Or did you just approve the boycot of Aruba, hmm?

It's like everything Beth says or does is been justified because she lost her kid. And that is total bullcrap. We have done a lot to help this case, and I dont need a patriot to fuck us over.
You dont go on international tv saying "look what they did to a/our country" when you just found out your daughter, who you love and has been lost for 3 years, might have been thrown in the ocean ALIVE. With sharks.

Verkeerde keelgat.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:45 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

I've read parts of beth's book. It was something with "the love/hope of a mother" or something. There's a transcript on the oprah winfrey website. Joran's book I didn't read. I don't want to buy it, because he gets money for it

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:22 schreef yvonne het volgende:
Thank you Observer, the last couple of hours I,ve been reading on your site, stunning!

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:31 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

Je kunt 't ook in de bieb lenen Bij mijn bieb zijn beide boeken uitgeleend, en eerlijk gezegd heb ik toch niet zo'n interesse in 't lezen van nog meer leugens

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:26 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Hallo Who said Natalee was drunk? I have only seen Joran say that! Then he said she wasn't drunk when he realized he could get into more trouble because she couldn't consent to sex. They slept most of the day and at the end of the night her friends thought she looked strange and her eyes were very heavy before closing time. She partied and drank on that trip for sure but she was not drunk that night,none of her friends said that at all. You would have to ask Joran about GHB..Did you read Joran's PV and the other PV'S..Why would Natalee be in and out of conscioussness? Did you know other Aruban girls came forwars and said the exact same thing happened to them? Did you see what I posted about witnesses that saw her being escorted out of the bar with deepak holding on to her arm 10 minutes after everyne rushed out of the bar? Just last week Jossy Mansur said he talked to a bartender who saw two of the suspects almost drag her out of the bar because she could barely walk. I don't make this stuff up it's all documented..Did you see there friend Freddy was arrested for suspicion of having sex with a unconscious person and taking pictures of a very young teen? This was the same thime K2 were arrested the 2nd time in 2005.

I don't have anything against the dutch and I actually love the people. I work with them,have dutch friends and they have been very good to me. I like the Aruban people,I have met a few and I have nothing at all against the good people of Aruba. It is all about that Aruban Govt and I think they are evil The F16's? What were they supposed to do? Do you think infered would show a decomposed body when it gives off no heat? Peter De Vries I love and admire a great deal,like I stated before he has done more than anyone to help this case. As far as a boycott for Aruba,Yes I support it..Do you have any idea the hell they have put Natalee and her Family through? I really dont think anyone in Holland knows about it and especially on this board..You would be stunned if you learned what they did to them!!!!!. As far as Hans Mos goes,I am not sure just yet what the hell is going on..He has this major evidence that turns out to be nothing. When the parents met him he would not answer any questions and told them the Family,The Media and a Dea agent hurt this case..He wasn't talking about the Van Der Sloot family but the Holloways!! Believe me I would have gone berzerk is that was my daughter..You would have done the same I am sure..I think Beth and Dave are some of the most kind,gentle and polite people on the face of this earth..Very very rare people and I admire how nice and sweet they have been..Sometimes I think they have been too nice!!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:44 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
Oh, I happen to love the word fuck. I´ve already tried to just throw the word out of my vocabulary, but sometimes it just slips through

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:42 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]


And I dont know about the government being corrupt. You dont know that either.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:49 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Ooooooooow yes we do, history proven...

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:42 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

I didnt accuse you of hating Dutch or Aruban people
Yeah, sure I wouldnt be too happy if my daughter disappeard, but I wouldnt say all the things that Beth has said. They way she has been talking, from what I have seen, makes everyone responsible for Natalee disappearing. Just blah blah blah.

And hell, I dont know what F16s with infrared are supposed to do, hmm hmm. Apparently there was a big enough chance to find something with it, otherwise they wouldnt have wasted that there. Its neither Aruba or The Netherlands fault that that didnt work. Point is they tried, did their best. And they only get shit in return. Till Peter comes along! Peter, with his little tape. His little tape full of thigns the entire world already knows, and probably wont be of any use in court. Yet he gets a fucking throne.

And I dont know about the government being corrupt. You dont know that either. You cant tell for sure, 100%, that Aruba is sabotising this case. America can't say that either. Yet you tell everyone to boycot a country that lives off of tourists, American tourists. How can you approve of that? That is lots of innocent people getting hit. And did it work? Noooooo.

Do you know Beth? In personal.

Im not trying to be a bitch or something. I do appreciate your work, but there are just some things eh. I can´t agree with all you say.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:49 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Ooooooooow yes we do, history proven...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:58 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

We don't have to agree on everything I really don't see what Beth did and why she is so hated..She is such a sweet and caring lady..You should see things that have been done to her!! You would be shocked!! Imagine being threatened and told you would chopped up and used as fish food if you returned to Aruba! Imagine being lied about,slandered and attacked for 2.5 years..Trust me that Govt spent millions on there disinformation campaign and attack on her family.

I am happy for Peter,at least he made the effort!! I don't think he is done quite yet and I believe he is on a mission..I do know for sure that Govt is corrupt and sabotaged this case! They are really evil..Even the Aruban people I spoke to privately agree with me!! We have only heard how great things are in Aruba and how booked there hotel rooms are and that the boycott hasn't worked at all..I think they are lucky it hasn't been organized yet and turned into a active boycott..That poor family just wants there daughter,she deserves a proper burial back home.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:18 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

You keep saying you do know, you do have proof, you do know this and that for a fact, but I havent seen any real proof yet

And about Peter, I really hope this wasnt all hes got. I really hope hes on this pedestal for a damn good reason.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:31 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

Je kunt 't ook in de bieb lenen Bij mijn bieb zijn beide boeken uitgeleend, en eerlijk gezegd heb ik toch niet zo'n interesse in 't lezen van nog meer leugens

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:59 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

Wow. From the dissepearance of a young girl to a potential Government-wide cover up.
Looks like the script from 24, season 8!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:35 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

What do you want proof of? Did you see what I posted on the Corruption and Collusion on the Aruban Govt? I can name 3 ministers that were caught Red Handed with drugs,rape and whoring women. Plus about 24 other things like letting a convicted mobster own and operate the hotel and casino where Natalee dissapeared from. If you are looking to defend that Aruban Govt you will not win..They are as corrupt and evil as they come.They most definetly covered up Natalees murder! Pick one subject and I will do my best to prove it,All of these subjects have been talked about and examined extensively at SM and should be very easy to provide facts.

I don't think that is all he has at all..He was pretty quiet after what he showed in his first show..He did very well there and has provided facts about some of the things you are asking about,like the search of that house,the admissions of Jorans lawyer and a few other things. I hope he keeps going.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:36 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

Ik ben 18+ heb geen biebpas, en als 18+ zijnde moet je dokken. No thnx

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:41 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Dat nieuwe systeem is echt retarded. Ik jat mn moeders pasje gewoon

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:58 schreef observer777 het volgende:

She is such a sweet and caring lady..

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:50 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

Better not say that, not her in Holland, it can make us a bit
Say she 's angree, she want 's to know what the hell has happend to her daughter. And she won 't give up untill she know 's.
But keep the sweet and caring part away from us

quote:

Op dinsdag 5 februari 2008 23:29 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Personally I love Mr.De Vries and was amazed at his first show..I think he did a great Job in this latest Investigation but I believe Joran was not telling the truth about many things. I am happy,because this brought Natalee's case to attention world wide and people got to hear the real Joran. I hope people take interest and demand answers,especially in Aruba. Much of what is on TV for us we knew long ago and have so many questions that remained to be answered..That is what we try to do everyday at SM is piece together this mystery. I am convinced all the answers are in the beginning in June 2005.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:50 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

Better not say that, not her in Holland, it can make us a bit
Say she 's angree, she want 's to know what the hell has happend to her daughter. And she won 't give up untill she know 's.
But keep the sweet and caring part away from us

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:55 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

sue me, but isn't that normal? What if you had a daughter and she went missing? Wouldn't you like to know what happend with her? Whatever it takes? I fucking know I would.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 10:58 schreef observer777 het volgende:

She is such a sweet and caring lady..

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:10 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
Ehhh waarom staan jullie nu op je achterste benen ? Ik leg alleen maar uit dat sentimenteel gedoe hier in Nederland meestal niet zo goed aan slaat. Als hij de moeder wat meer populair wil maken moet hij dat in andere bewoordingen doen .

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:10 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
Ehhh waarom staan jullie nu op je achterste benen ? Ik leg alleen maar uit dat sentimenteel gedoe hier in Nederland meestal niet zo goed aan slaat. Als hij de moeder wat meer populair wil maken moet hij dat in andere bewoordingen doen .

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:11 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Je sprak voor ons allemaal, vandaar

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:10 schreef deedeetee het volgende:
Ehhh waarom staan jullie nu op je achterste benen ? Ik leg alleen maar uit dat sentimenteel gedoe hier in Nederland meestal niet zo goed aan slaat. Als hij de moeder wat meer populair wil maken moet hij dat in andere bewoordingen doen . [afbeelding]

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:12 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

Eensch.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:16 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Oh shush

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:13 schreef deedeetee het volgende:

[..]

Ga jij dan niet over je nek van de sentimentele manier waarop aan de andere kant van de oceaan vaak word gesproken dan ??
Dat is dáár normaal maar hier niet dacht ik

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:17 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

Dat helpt haar zaak niet echt.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:14 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Ik herinner me juist topics dat ze te weinig zou janken.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:19 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Denk nou eens na over wat je nu zegt?
Dat is toch ridicuul en onjuist?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:20 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

Dat is toch gewoon de praktijk? Ongeacht mijn mening erover?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:21 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Dan is die praktijk, voor sommige mensen, toch onjuist en ridicuul?

Mijn dochter is vermist, ik kom niet "goed"over op tv/krant, dús word ik medeveroordeeld...

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:24 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

Je snapt het niet. Door het cultuurverschil van Amerika <> Nederland krijg je dus wrijvingen en irritatie over het gedrag van de moeder. In Amerika zijn bepaalde uitlatingen hartstikke normaal terwijl we daar in Nederland zowat van moeten kotsen.

Dat heeft niks te maken met veroordelen, maar te maken met cultuurverschillen.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:19 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
I think that it's the "Natalee would neeeeeeever do that. No way. Oh gosh no! Drugs? Dont be silly. Oh gosh! Alcohol? Nooooooooo gooooosh no. My sweet ltitle innocent girl boohoo blame the terrible Aruba and the terrible Netherlands but my daughter is just an innocent little girl." That + the boycotting + "Look what they did to a/our country" is what gets some Dutchies going.

Natalee was not an innocent little girl. And no, Im not saying this justifies her death, all Im saying is that mother needs to quit the -all American innocent virgin till 30- crap

quote:

Just last week Jossy Mansur said he talked to a bartender who saw two of the suspects almost drag her out of the bar because she could barely walk. I don't make this stuff up it's all documented

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:28 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
And now ontopic, I think the biggest problem is that a lot of times it's like this

- Joran said..
Joran is a liar!
- Yeah but..
No!

Im sure Joran is a liar, but he didnt lie about everything. So, lets see, if we take for example the drinking.
Joran and co say she had been drinking a loooooot
American friends say she had like almost nothing.

This could be a very crucial point. If Natalee was drunk like a fuck and might have taken coke or whatever, they only thing they can do then is arrest Joran for disposing the body.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:30 schreef johan555 het volgende:
voor de nieuwkomers hier begint dit onderwerp

In the rebound deel 1 > Natalee Holloway (in the rebound).

dit is deel 2 en deel 3 komt er aan denk ik [afbeelding]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:31 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

Nope, not true. Because Joran didn't know if natalee was alive when he dropped her off in the big ocean. If she was alive, it is murder. Or manslaughter. I go for murder [afbeelding]

I think Joran has a disease. Why would anyone lie so much about so many things [afbeelding] What's it called in dutch? "pseudologia fantastica"

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:32 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
We were just now discussing the Beth-interview, the last segment of the Dutch show last sunday...

Some people have issues with some of the stuff Beth says, others like myself have issues with the way Mr. De Vries conducted this "interview" and the way it was edited.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:35 schreef johan555 het volgende:
welke pagina 1 ?

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Op maandag 6 juni 2005 @ 15:05 schreef Madhoax het volgende:

[..]

Ik loop op dit moment stage in Aruba en ze heeft géén sex gehad met die lui, die 3 eikels zijn namelijk de grootste drugsdealers op Aruba en ze hebben drugs gehaald voor haar. En ze is vrijwillig bij die dealers in de auto gestapt, dat heeft de politie terug gezien op de beveiligingsvideo van carlos 'n charlies. Dus ze is gewoon dom geweest.

Sommige kranten berichten er hier ook over dat ze naar Venezuela o.i.d. is gegaan omdat ze wat van de wereld wil zien en niet door haar ouders gevonden wil worden, in het jaarboek van school had ze geschreven: "Zouden jullie me allemaal over een jaar nog herinneren? Waarschijnlijk niet, ik wil iets van de wereld zien" (beetje vrij vertaald, ik had het gister in de krant gelezen)

Dus misschien is er wel heel veel ophef om niks, ik denk dat ze gewoon een beetje ontspoord is.....

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:36 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) II Klik.
Maar misschien kan Yvonne hem even in de OP zetten?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:47 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

Let op wat hij zegt:
Drugs-dealers!
Deepak, Satish en Joran waren al drugs aan het verkopen op Aruba.
Natalee is hieraan gestorven.. lijk moest weg.
Klaar.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:49 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Zo?
Kan het zo meegenomen worden naar deel3.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 09:46 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

Ja, ik ben er ook mee bezig. Tis idd alleen lastig, zoveel informatie om te toetsen, en zo onoverzichtelijk.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:35 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Hehehhe "Ive got a big breakthrough Beth! But Im not telling you for another week"

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:52 schreef Goofup het volgende:

[..]

Ik denk dat hij meer bedoelt dat Peter Beth de 'confession' showt en haar daarna laat praten, maar telkens als ze wat zegt, doet hij er maar al te graag een schepje bovenop. Dingen die ze heus wel heeft gezien in het filmpje, maar niet nog eens nadrukkelijk herhaald hoeven worden.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:55 schreef johan555 het volgende:
ja maar deel 1 staat daar en deel 2 daar en deel 3 zo weer ergens anders
achter elkaar is het mooiste

of ben je druk met de 1e wereld oorlog

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:16 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Well there probably would have been forensic evidence if they would have searched the house. Remember that house was never searched until like april 2007..Two years too late.Did you see Peter De Vries first program? Well there is alot more to why they restricted the search of that house the day of the search. They only searched Joran's little Apt and the two cars and that was 17 days after Natalee vanished!! There was a article in Papamiento from that Judge last month stating why he restricted the search. He blamed the Prosecuters office and commissioner Dompig and they blame him. They are caught red handed in this lie! Can anyone translate Papi here? He said the Prosecuters office never asked to search anything more,while Dompig says they were denied searching that house. The Judge says Dompig obstructed justice and asked for Van Der Sloots privacy and not to search the house So many times PJK2 stated that Natalee hit her head when getting out of the carit is all in the documents. Why would they say that? Why would PVDS tell two different people including Joran's headmaster that Natalee may have hit her head and drowned? Why would they report blood in Deeepaks car..It wasnt just one person,But The Prime Minsiter,Minister of Justice,FBI and a couple of Aruban police officers.

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I wasnt in the sloot house and I dont know what Val was doing but look at the computer records..Val was on the x-plane site after 2am on a school night!! This kid also had on his internet site talking about a dead girl in his bathtub. He could have been the alibi on the computer or it could have been one of Jorans friends. I dont even think he was questioned until the year 2007. I think Val is a good kid and was not involved but may know something.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:51 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Yesss, dank

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:52 schreef Goofup het volgende:

[..]

Ik denk dat hij meer bedoelt dat Peter Beth de 'confession' showt en haar daarna laat praten, maar telkens als ze wat zegt, doet hij er maar al te graag een schepje bovenop. Dingen die ze heus wel heeft gezien in het filmpje, maar niet nog eens nadrukkelijk herhaald hoeven worden.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:50 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Hij zegt ook dat ze gewoon de hort op is, hmm. Maar nee, we moeten alleen het drugsstukje geloven?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:04 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

Nee dat zegt ie niet, maarja begrijpend lezen is lastig soms.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 12:51 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:

[..]

Ik ben er ook mee bezig. Het laat je voorlopig niet los...
Heb al een aantal posts in dit topic staan. Over mijn gedachte op basis van het kleine beetje wat ik ervan weet uit nieuws en de uitzending van zondag uiteraard. Gecombineerd met gezond verstand en je verplaatsen in joran. Gaan begrijpen hoe hij denkt.

Wat is er fokking veel (gevoelige) info op die SM site te vinden zeg. Heb er gister voor het eerst op gekeken en 2 naar ik aanneem authentieke verhoren gelezen.

Mijn engels is niet geweldig dus als ik hier in het engels ga posten is de kans groot dat ik verkeerd begrepen wordt door door jullie, en dat kunnen we in dit topic natuurlijk niet hebben.
Een poging:
My english is not very good so if I post in english, there is a good chance that I will be misunderstood and that is something we can not have in this topic.

Is het ok als ik in het nederlands post of vinden jullie het toch beter als ik het ff in het engels probeer....

Observer777: Can you read dutch good?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:07 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Fine, de krant zegt het. En hoe weet hij dat ze geen seks hebben gehad? Was hij erbij? Omg! Breakthrough! !! Bel de Vries maar, Madhoax heeft het gedaan.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:00 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Ik ga even andere bijzondere linkjes erbij plakken, als degeen die deel 3 opent dat alles even mee wil nemen?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:08 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Die scaredmonkeys ofzo ook maar? Komt veel informatie vandaan

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:10 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

Mja, alhoewel ik wel mn twijfels heb bij die bron. SM staat niet echt bekend als betrouwbaar voor zover ik weet.

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Holloway-zaak kost Aruba miljoenen
Gepost door Jonas (Jonas.Z) - Bron: De Telegraaf
Gepubliceerd: woensdag 6 februari 2008 @ 11:08

Door de zaak rondom Natalee Holloway heeft Aruba inmiddels al voor tientallen miljoenen dollars aan schade geleden. Dit meldde de Arubaanse premier Nelson Oduber dinsdagavond in het televisieprogramma Nova. Het schadebedrag kan nog oplopen, en een exact getal durfde de premier dan ook niet te noemen.

Het grootste probleem voor Aruba is dat het voor 70 procent afhankelijk is van Amerikaanse toeristen. Die laten het massaal afweten sinds het eiland zo negatief in het nieuws komt. Oduber geeft weemoedig aan: "Net nu het weer beter ging met de economie in het afgelopen jaar, krijgen we dit".

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:18 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Ik vind bar weinig in deze zaak betrouwbaar maar a la
[..]

Leuk, Amerika. .

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:26 schreef johan555 het volgende:
ja en misschien deel 1 ,2 & 3 achter elkaar plakken in die lijst Actueel: Joran van der Sloot forum

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:21 schreef Qwea het volgende:

[..]

Dat nieuwsbericht snap ik ook niet. Ja leuk, miljoenen. Maar er is wel een meisje vermist/dood gegaanm op dat eiland. IPV te zeiken over de poen kunnen ze ook eens echt hun best doen om het op te lossen.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:29 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Nu ja. Er gaan elk jaar keiveel mensen dood, maar doorgaans wordt daar niet een heel land de dupe van dus ik kan het enigzins snappen. Mocht al dat conspiracygelul dan wel waar zijn, dan moeten ze inderdaad snel hun mond dicht houden

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:27 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:

[..]

Dat kan niehiet. Je krijgt de links van de vorige delen in de OP van het nieuwe topic. Klaar.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:29 schreef Tennessee het volgende:
Is het misschien een idee omdat die online-vertalers zo slecht zijn, uit beleefdheid naar onze Engelstalige gasten, om dan Engels te praten in deze topic? Er zijn vast wel fokkers genoeg die willen vertalen voor mensen die niet zo goed Engels kunnen...

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:51 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Hi,I hope you are sincere and not coming from one of the anti-beths site or are you just misinformed? Where have you been reading about this case? You really need to go to another blog!!

quote:

Natalee did not do drugs,never run away before and was a str8 A student. What was she supposed to put on the fliers? Why has Julia Renfro deliberately lied about this murdered victim and her Family? For money or because she is friends of the sloots?Why did she tell the Family Natalee was confirmed dead and to show up at the courthouse for a press conference just a few days after NH dissapeared?

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Look the kids had scheduled flights home were they supposed to miss all there flights? They didn't even realize Natalee was missing until they were all getting ready to go the airport. They were all questioned extensively by the FBI and later the ALE I beleive,the answers do not lie in Mountain Brook and if someone thinks so they are sadly mistaken.

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Not sure..Do you know? I think he took interest because he helps missing and exploited people..Why do you ask? This guy just wanted to help and has nothing to do with anything.

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SM mostly in in full support of a boycott and ask's all americans to stop traveling until Natalee finally gets a honest Investigation and the Aruban Authorities expose the cover up and stop protecting those that murdered Natalee.. But I can't speak for everyone..You should ask them!

quote:

Didnt Jorans Lawyer a few weeks into the Investigation confess to her that Joran played a major role in Natalee's dissapearance but it was up to her to prove it? Isnt that illegal? Did KJ do anything about hearing that info?Dompig? The same guy who said JK2 were guilty as hell?Same guy who on 4 consecutive interviews told completely different things? Same guy who's brother in law help set up two innocent men and distract attention away from the real killers? Same brother in law who said he saw Natalee with cocaine?Dompig,Same guy who asked to block the search of the Van Der Sloot home and was accused by Judge Wit of obstructing justice? Isnt he related to the Kalpoes also?

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Thats not a dutch documenatry..Arent those people from Aruba lying about the case and friends of the Van Der Sloots? Isn't that Julia Renfro,AngelaM and Rene'e Guilen?Everything in here is a complete lie!! These people really should be in prison for lying,slandering and obstructing a murder investigation..

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I hope I dont come off rough

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I'm only interested to read several aspects on this story and not only the site of de Van der Sloots or The Holloways or Twitty's for that matter.

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An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry MadMaster, you are banned from using this forum!
You said you made your last post

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:21 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
What the fuck????
[..]

Now I'm really pissed...

Who the fuck do those people at SM think they are?
God or something?

I've been discussing all night in a fair way and get this as an answer?
Censoring people isn't a strong case...

Am I banned because I gave one more, reasonable answer after I said I posted my final posting...?

Sad thing this, which will only make me even more I'm right about the hypocritical view of people from the USA...

I'm going to have a dive this morning, into the Aruban sea...

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:28 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

Is that because of your criticism or because you somehow misbehaved?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:28 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

Is that because of your criticism or because you somehow misbehaved?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:39 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2574.msg342499#msg342499
Difference in thinking, difference in culture?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 11:35 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

What do you want proof of? Did you see what I posted on the Corruption and Collusion on the Aruban Govt? I can name 3 ministers that were caught Red Handed with drugs,rape and whoring women. Plus about 24 other things like letting a convicted mobster own and operate the hotel and casino where Natalee dissapeared from. If you are looking to defend that Aruban Govt you will not win..They are as corrupt and evil as they come.They most definetly covered up Natalees murder! Pick one subject and I will do my best to prove it,All of these subjects have been talked about and examined extensively at SM and should be very easy to provide facts.

I don't think that is all he has at all..He was pretty quiet after what he showed in his first show..He did very well there and has provided facts about some of the things you are asking about,like the search of that house,the admissions of Jorans lawyer and a few other things. I hope he keeps going.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 13:49 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Nog wat leesvoer toegevoegd, wil iemand bij het openen van deel 3 de OP meenemen?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:02 schreef johan555 het volgende:
de Op meenemen?????????????????????

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Op woensdag 6 february 2008 14:46 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
What's wrong with that post?
I tried to answer everybody, but got bashed even more every time...

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:38 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

As far as I know I didn't misbehaved myself, I gave my opinion about the coverup-conspiracy I don't believe and I was a little cynical about some opinions from some people overthere. But I ended my last posting -1 by saying that I hoped that this case will be solved and that justice will be done to those in the way they deserve it. By that, I kept every option open about who's involved and who's guilty...

But maybe Observer can tell me the exact reason why I'm banned, I'm very curious...

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:57 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
Is scaredmonkeys American?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:58 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

No, from Lutjebroek [afbeelding]

What did you think? [afbeelding]

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:56 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Difference in upbringing and culture.

"Good girls don't have sex before their married"

Well, every youngster, whatever country there from do things that's normal for youngsters, parents should warn their children that there's a world outside..
I don't condemn kids on holiday, but I an serious worried about parents who put their head in the sand and let their children go off on holiday without a proper lecture or warning.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:05 schreef johan555 het volgende:
uit canada en spreekt zelfs nederlands

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:45 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

So the govt is 'corrupt and evil', therefore they - most definetly - covered up this crime? That's reasoning backwards hey; while apparantly you don't even have the evidence to proof the first stepstone in your theory.
Ressemblance with the method of reasoning backwords in the Maddie McCann case comes to mind. Users of weblogs are convinced the McCanns killed their daughter and with of without help from others disposed of her body, after which a huge cover up was set in place, including even British PM Gordon F. Brown; because they dislike the McCanns, authorities in general, and Labour/liberals/leftists in specific, or found that the McCanns acted irresponsibly bij leaving their kids alone while dining in the tappasbar, something they themself would ofcourse never do.

Or am I wrong?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:56 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Difference in upbringing and culture.

"Good girls don't have sex before their married"

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:16 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

That's tru, and almost in every instance they mix their believes with a moral conviction.
Observer777 said that Aruban govt not only is corrupt, but also 'evil'. Evil is a theological conception.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:16 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

[..]

That's tru, and almost in every instance they mix their believes with a moral conviction.
Observer777 said that Aruban govt not only is corrupt, but also 'evil'. Evil is a theological conception.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:21 schreef Tennessee het volgende:

[..]

First you bring up the McCann girl who has nothing to do with it, now you bring up theology.

Do you mean to say that it's impossible that the government on Aruba is corrupt and or criminal? Wouldn't you call it evil if they were corrupt and criminal?

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:21 schreef Tennessee het volgende:

[..]

First you bring up the McCann girl who has nothing to do with it, now you bring up theology.

quote:

Do you mean to say that it's impossible that the government on Aruba is corrupt and or criminal? Wouldn't you call it evil if they were corrupt and criminal?

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Holland is centuries ahead of Aruba as far as the sophistication of the civilization of it's people, but it is fair to say that Aruba is a caricature of Holland.A country where the same moral compass is at work, only in Aruba they tend to go 20 degrees further than their fellow Dutch who live in Holland, and don't even realize they are out of the bounds of anybody's comfort zone of decency. Holland no doubts benefits as a country from the illegal drug trade, has legalized prostitution, drugs are legal, and is home to the largest manufacturer of XTC in the world. Piracy, smuggling, receiving and selling of the loots stolen by pirates who were given safe harbor by the Dutch Masters laid the groundwork for the culture that populates Aruba and the NE, only pirates have been replaced by drug lords. Someone mentioned that Holland had a lot of old wealthy companies. It would be interesting to research just how the old money of Holland was accumulated. I'll bet that a significant amount of the wealth came from smuggling, selling stolen goods, bribes received from drug trafficking and piracy, etc.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:28 schreef ASroma het volgende:

[..]

die amerikanen, wat een volk!

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:28 schreef ASroma het volgende:

[..]

die amerikanen, wat een volk!

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:31 schreef Ticker het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]
On the right you have Guido, with Joran, playing their con on Holloway, and her friends.


http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm

Grappig, zo lang er niemand dood gaat..

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:28 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
...
In fact they'll have much more to win when they bring the culprit(s) to justice, certainly if'you're talking about a gang of young kids who on a regular basis rape tourists.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:36 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

I still can't see any proof of that person being Joran's father btw.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:36 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

I still can't see any proof of that person being Joran's father btw.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:14 schreef MikeyMo het volgende:
a gang of rapists

rich white dutch kids...

conspiracytheorists

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:43 schreef Harajuku. het volgende:
http://judicial-inc.biz/Joran_va_der_sloot.htm That site [ afbeelding ] Permission to laugh? [ afbeelding ].If I were old enough Id get WWII flashbacks

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:53 schreef johan555 het volgende:
Harajuku kan dat fototje wat langzamer???
[afbeelding]

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 15:51 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Is dit de site van meki? [afbeelding]

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 14:56 schreef yvonne het volgende:

[..]

Difference in upbringing and culture.

"Good girls don't have sex before their married"

Well, every youngster, whatever country there from do things that's normal for youngsters, parents should warn their children that there's a world outside..
I don't condemn kids on holiday, but I an serious worried about parents who put their head in the sand and let their children go off on holiday without a proper lecture or warning.

quote:

I told I saw some young American girls drunk last week, screaming around the terraces of some restaurants and thought they should have a liitle self responsibility too...