Oorlog in Libië #103: Waar de meningen erg verdeeld zijn..

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 02:03 schreef shameonyou het volgende:

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had ff gezegd dan dat ik een nieuw topic mocht openen

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had ik een passende titel kunnen plaatsen he.
En die andere topics zijn long gone daar heb ik geen links voor.

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 02:04 schreef shameonyou het volgende:

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welke leugen?

De leugen van het massaal kapot schieten van vreedzame protesterende vrouwen en kinderen met anti-vliegtuig kanonnen?

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 02:18 schreef shameonyou het volgende:
Ik vind het nog steeds bizar hoe de hele NAVO de nieuwe Libische regering erkend heeft. Maar zijn leger en soldaten nog steeds burgers en rebellen noemt.

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 02:26 schreef shameonyou het volgende:

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Gadaffi en zijn aanhangers vinden dat ZIJ de revolutionaire zijn. Inplaats van de al-qaede geleide nieuwe libische regering die terug naar Islam fundamentalisme en Monarchi willen.

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Terug naar de status quo.......

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 02:30 schreef johnnylove het volgende:
Dat jullie nog jullie energie aan hem willen besteden is mij een raadsel...

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 02:26 schreef shameonyou het volgende:

Gadaffi en zijn aanhangers vinden dat ZIJ de revolutionaire zijn. Inplaats van de al-qaede geleide nieuwe libische regering die terug naar Islam fundamentalisme en Monarchi willen.
Terug naar de status quo.......

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 02:25 schreef svann het volgende:
Waarom ben je tegen democratie, shameonyou?

Wat is er rampzalig aan vrije verkiezingen?

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 02:01 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
Wil je die pro-Ghaddafi leugens uit de OP halen?

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But the evidence of a brutal end were clear. One of the corpses had been cleanly decapitated, while the trousers of another had been ripped down to his ankles, a way of humiliating a dead enemy.

The green uniforms were the same as those worn by loyalists fighting for Col. Muammer Gaddafi in Libya's civil war. No one from the rebel side claimed the corpses, or declared their loved ones missing.

There was no funeral, or call to the media by the rebels to see the 'atrocities committed by the regime'.

Since the bodies were seen by the Daily Telegraph attempts to discover their identities have been unsuccessful, in part because of obstruction by rebel authorities in the area. Having highlighted the discovery to those authorities the area was subsequently bulldozed and the bodies dissappeared.

The find will add to concerns highlighted in recent days over human rights violations by rebel forces. Human Rights Watch last week said that had looted homes, shops and hospitals and beaten captives as they advanced.

(...)

But Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch both said there were documented cases of extra-judicial killings by rebel forces, including deaths in custody under torture.

In particular, in the early phases of the uprising, loyalists and sub-Saharan Africans accused of being mercenaries were lynched. Since then, men in rebel-held areas suspected of being members of Col Gaddafi's security services have been taken from the homes, and subsequently found dead with their hands tied.

Both organisations say these are not on the scale of the abuses perpetrated by the regime. "We have come across a number of cases of executions of suspected Gaddafi fighters in both the east and the west," said Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director of HRW.

"I does fit a consistent pattern, though I don't think these killings are authorised by the rebel authorities in Benghazi."

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 08:18 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Onze nieuwe democratische bondgenoten, nogmaals:

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http://www.telegraph.co.u(...)byas-rebel-army.html

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 10:32 schreef Daniel1976 het volgende:
-OP gerestaureerd-

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 09:25 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
En mag nu de OP weer terug in de oude staat? We runnen hier een serieuze thread.

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 09:25 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
Ghaddafie is een bedreiging voor de burgers van Libië, dus moet ie afgezet worden.

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 14:37 schreef shameonyou het volgende:
Van massamoordende gruwelijke dictator regime henchmen tot democratisch ahum gekozen nieuwe regeringsleiders van de mooie nieuwe democratische staat Libye presenteert:

Mustafa Abdul Jalil
[ afbeelding ]

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Abdul_Jalil

Mahmoud Jibril
[ afbeelding ]

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Jibril

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 12:06 schreef HyperViper het volgende:

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Maar wel lekker anderen voor leugenaar uitmaken zonder enige vorm van onderbouwing? Je hebt jezelf allang gediskwalificeerd, ontzettende minkukel.

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En de NAVO niet?! Laat me niet lachen man, ze hebben al een centrale bank opgezet en de burgers eten meer bommen dan ooit tevoren. Wij zijn een groter gevaar voor die burgers dan die pamper dictatoriale regering.

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 09:25 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
Het is heel simpel. Resolutie 1973 is heel ruim gesteld: Alles mag om burgers te beschermen behalve een bezettingsmacht. Ghaddafie is een bedreiging voor de burgers van Libië, dus moet ie afgezet worden.

Ik snap niet dat ik dat na 103 topics nog steeds uit moet leggen.

En mag nu de OP weer terug in de oude staat? We runnen hier een serieuze thread.

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 10:32 schreef Daniel1976 het volgende:
-OP gerestaureerd-

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Since 2007 he has served in the Gheddafi regime as head of Nedb (National Economic Development Board),[5] where he promoted privatization and liberalization policies.[6]

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 14:42 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Je noemt nu zelf het Ghaddafi-regime als misdadig

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Op donderdag 21 juli 2011 00:03 schreef shameonyou het volgende:

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Ken je deze nog miljoenen mensen op een pleintje
[ afbeelding ]
En in hetzelfde schermpje 1 miljoen, en jij gelooft deze grappenmakers echt?

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agent scully, serieus: samenzweringen ofzo?

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geruchten zijn geruchten zoals ik al 100x zeg het is maar hoe je de woorden draait. dus inderdaad lekker logisch dat de verhalen tegen gadhaffi worden gebruikt

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Nee Obamo hongert zijn volk uit, of geloof je niet dat Amerika een ontwikkelingsland is waarbij 2/3 van de bevolking aan de voedselbonnen zit, dit hoor je niet op jou NOS

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oke, hier spreek je je gigantisch tegen, de NAVO wist 100000% zeker dat er mensen zouden kunnen worden vermoord vanwege hun BETROUWBARE inlichtingen, nu gadhaffi geen aanhangers meer heeft, blijkt de NAVO niet te weten wat er gebeurd:

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Toen Gadhaffi nog baas was wist de NAVO 1000% zeker hoe de vork in de steel zat
NU Gadaffhi de oorlog heeft verloren (volgens jou NOS) weet de NAVO niet waar een howitzer (weet de naam niet van zo'n ding) staat schei toch uit man, dus voordat de oorlog uitbrak waren hun 100% BETROUWBARE INLICHTING ONJUIST nu praat je jezelf ontzettend tegen.
voor de oorlog 100% na de oorlog weten ze niet waar en hoe van af.....

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Er waren 3 soorten Russen die vochten in WOII
1 Krijgsgevangen die konden kiezen tussen de kogel nu of je rent het slachtveld op
2 Russen die tijdens de oorlog dienstplichtig werden (is in elk land van de wereld, ook NL kan jou ingeval van oorlog tegen je zin oproepen om te vechten)
3 Russen die vrijwillig het land wilde verdedigen

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Raar wapenhandelaar mag je zijn als je voldoet aan criteria, Europese fabrikanten c.q. handelaren moeten aantonen waar zij exporteren en aan wie verkopen moeten met rekeningen werken, niet met koffers met geld zoals je in de film ziet.

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De NOS heb ik geïntroduceerd omdat:
mensen mijn media voor leugens en samenzwering complotten aanzien en zelf met geen ander 100% betrouwbare bron kunnen komen dan de NOS.
dus ik val in herhalen je kijkt niet verder dan je neus lang is, je ziet niet dat ik de NOS als synoniem gebruik voor een vage bron die iets meldt, zoals jij mijn bronnen russiatoday enz als onzin verklaard.

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Dat is volgens mij inderdaad de reden dat VS / NAVO gadhaffi weg willen hebben,chapeau

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Nee, jij beperkt je weer tot iets.
Gadhaffi was 20 jaar "onze" "bondgenoot" vriend, mattie, en opeens horen wij westerlingen dat gadhaffi zijn mensen onderdrukt, dat hebben wij al 20 jaar toegelaten geen nieuws toch,
opeens komt het nieuws dat hij een massaslachting wilt gaan houden
opeens zijn er vrijheidsstrijders
opeens is heel libië tegen gadhaffi terwijl niemand van ons jij niet ik niet kan vertellen hoeveel procent van de bevolking daadwerkelijk moeite met Gadhaffi had....
Dus nu gaan wij gaan wij bombarderen, rebellen hebben alles onder controlle en opeens schiet gadhaffi een cluster bom af....JA HOOR geloof je het zelf...

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Waar slaat dit op?
Mag er maar 1 versie van een verhaal worden belicht, ik wil dat beide meningen mogen worden aangegeven in de OP, dit noem je in de westerse wereld, propaganda, censuur, mediacode?

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Waarom is het andere verhaal FOUT?? omdat het het "echte" verhaal kan ondermijnen?

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Rebellen Libië sturen geheime agenten naar Tripoli


De opstandelingen in Libië die hun basis in de noordoostelijke regio Cyrenaica hebben, sturen gewapende geheim agenten naar de machtsbasis van het regime, de hoofdstad Tripoli in het noordwesten van het land.
Een commandant van de Libisch rebellen, Fawzi Bukatif, zei donderdagavond in Benghazi dat er kleine groepjes goed getrainde opstandelingen naar Tripoli zijn gestuurd. Zijn opmerking volgde op geruchten in Tripoli dat er donderdag moordaanslagen waren gepleegd op prominenten van het regime. Bukatif wist daar niets van, maar zei dat het mogelijk is.

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Op vrijdag 22 juli 2011 09:51 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Rusland en Libië bespreken vertrek Kaddafi 'concreet'
Topdiplomaten van Rusland en Libië hebben deze week in Moskou gesproken over het vertrek van de Libische leider Muammar Kaddafi. Het zou gaan om 'relatief concrete termen' waarin de toekomst van Kaddafi wordt besproken.

Het Russische persbureau Interfax meldt het bericht vandaag op gezag van een bron binnen het Russische ministerie van Buitenlandse Zaken.

Volgens de bron is 'in betrekkelijk concrete termen' over Kaddafi's toekomst gesproken, 'mede in het licht van de contacten tussen de vertegenwoordigers van Kaddafi en de Amerikanen en Fransen'. De Libische minister van Buitenlandse Zaken, Abdelati al-Obeidi, sprak woensdag met zijn Russische ambtgenoot Sergej Lavrov.

Rusland hekelde deze week de Verenigde Staten en de andere landen die de Libische Overgangsraad in Benghazi hebben erkend als wettelijke vertegenwoordiger van het Libische volk. Volgens Moskou kiezen zij op die manier voor een politieke beweging in een burgeroorlog.

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Op vrijdag 22 juli 2011 14:06 schreef shameonyou het volgende:
Nieuwe terror-export staat Libye censureert media.

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Op vrijdag 22 juli 2011 18:18 schreef shameonyou het volgende:

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Dat heet nu een falseflag aanval van de NAVO.
Plaatsen een bom op eigen grondgebied en gebruiken dat als een reden om een vijand aan te vallen.

Verwachtte antwoord:NAVO zou zoiets noooooooooooit doen.

Antwoord:Operatie Gladio
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operatie_Gladio


En als Gadaffi dit gedaan heeft dan is het geen terroraanval. Maar gewoon een aanval op een "command and control center" van de NAVO die aanvallen op burgers uitvoert in Libye.

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Op vrijdag 22 juli 2011 18:18 schreef shameonyou het volgende:

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Dat heet nu een falseflag aanval van de NAVO.
Plaatsen een bom op eigen grondgebied en gebruiken dat als een reden om een vijand aan te vallen.

Verwachtte antwoord:NAVO zou zoiets noooooooooooit doen.

Antwoord:Operatie Gladio
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operatie_Gladio

En als Gadaffi dit gedaan heeft dan is het geen terroraanval. Maar gewoon een aanval op een "command and control center" van de NAVO die aanvallen op burgers uitvoert in Libye.

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Op vrijdag 22 juli 2011 11:53 schreef Frikandelbroodje het volgende:
Rebellen zijn goed bezig in het zuiden.

[ afbeelding ]

Nice! Jammer dat het gebied niet bij de No-Fly zone zit de NAVO kan ze niet helpen....

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Op vrijdag 22 juli 2011 18:54 schreef Weltschmerz het volgende:
- Hij gebruikt buitenlandse wreedaards tegen de eigen bevolking (komt me zeer bekend voor, kan er even niet opkomen)

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Op vrijdag 22 juli 2011 18:21 schreef shameonyou het volgende:
Nog meer oorlogsmisdaden door het nieuwe Libye:

Libya : Anti-Gaddafi Caught a Libyan Officer in Benghazi 20/03/2011

Zwaar mishandelde oorlogsgevangenen die gedwongen op video kom is een oorlogs misdaad onder het verdrag van Geneve.

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1 maand geleden schreef ogla5 1 op YouTube:

Story of the caught above libyan officer;

this officer; if he is the grand son of Salem Ahnesh , his grand father's farm at Al-Minshia , Tripoli, Libya. It is impossible for him to hurt or kill any libyan based on the family history, His grandfather is member of The Holly Shrine of Sidi El-Masri, Tripoli, Libya. Whom they fought the Italian Invasion fearlessly from1911 till 1924, Books in Italian, La Conquista di Tripolitania . Haj Aly El-Masri Memorial.

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4 uur geleden schreef WWWhiteRevolution op YouTube:

This is a warcrime dude.

You can NOT broadcast or torture Prisoners of WAR bij the conference of Geneve.

But we are used to that already from you terrorism-transporting fake Libye.

You are being used by the international bankers who will use you as debtslaves in the future.

twitter:

dovenews twitterde op zaterdag 23-07-2011 om 18:14:59 #Gaddafi wants to talk about him staying in power.....He needs new batteries for his hearing aid! I am sure @NATO will drop him some! reageer retweet

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Wounded Gaddafi soldier says morale of troops is low

MISRATA, Libya July 22 (Reuters) - Morale is low among troops fighting for Muammar Gaddafi on the front west of Misrata and many are reluctant to fight back against rebel attacks, a recently-wounded loyalist soldier told Reuters on Friday.

"Most of them are exhausted, especially as we approach the month of Ramadan," said the soldier, who spoke on condition his name and his hometown not be mentioned for fear of reprisals against his family. "They don't want to fight during Ramadan."

"They want everything to settle and we're all Libyan brothers," he added. "We don't want to harm each other."

Muslims observe the month of Ramadan by fasting during daylight hours and praying. It is traditionally a time families spend together. This year's Ramadan promises to be gruelling for Muslims, starting during the hot and dry month of August.

The soldier gave the interview from his bed at Misrata's Al Hikma hospital with no one in the room except Reuters staff, offering a rare insight into the morale in Gaddafi's camp.

The soldier said he was shot in the left thigh two or three days ago by rebel fighters on the front line that has been pushed amid heavy fighting and bombardment to around 40 kilometres (25 miles) west of Misrata.

That puts the front around 6 kilometres east of Zlitan, the largest city remaining between the rebels and the capital Tripoli 160 km away.

Rebel fighters in Misrata frequently say many of the young soldiers they come up against in combat seem reluctant to fight, an impression the young soldier confirmed.

"There is no organisation or planning," he said in a quiet voice. "Most times we withdraw."

TREATING BOTH SIDES

When asked why he had joined the fight against the rebels, the government soldier said he had been lied to at the military college he was attending when the uprising began.

"They didn't allow us to watch media channels," he said. "We were only allowed to watch Libyan (state) television."

"I was told (the rebels) were criminal gangs who mutilated bodies."

The soldier said he had expected to be treated badly when he was wounded and captured.

"I was treated with respect," he said. "I did not expect to be treated this well."

On a visit to the International Medical Corps field hospital behind the western front line on Wednesday, a Reuters team saw three wounded Gaddafi loyalists being treated as well as injured rebel fighters.

The hospital staff appeared to treat the patients according to the seriousness of their injury, not which side they were fighting on.

"We have treated those who were with us and those who were against us," said Faisal Mahmoud, a rebel fighter being treated at the hospital for a head injury and wounds to both arms sustained in a mortar attack this week.

The wounded Gaddafi loyalist said he was operated on before other rebel fighters injured the same day.

Both sides in the war that began with street protests across Libya for greater freedom back in February have accused the other of hiring mercenaries to fight. Rebels commonly refer to fighters from Chad or Algeria among Gaddafi's troops.

But the young soldier said "apart from a few people with strange dialects," he had not seen any sign of mercenaries.

Rebel commanders have also said recently they have encountered land mines ahead of Gaddafi loyalist positions, but the soldier said he was not aware of a major mining operation.

Asked what would happen to him when his wound was healed, the young man said he had been told he would be free to go.

"They told me that when things calm down 'we will send you back to your family and we will treat you well,'" he said.

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US checks reports of ship carrying arms for Libya

WASHINGTON, July 22 (Reuters) - The United States is investigating reports that a ship carrying weapons for Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's forces was allowed to dock in Algeria, which would be considered a violation of U.N. resolutions, a State Department official said on Friday.

The United States called on Algeria, if it was aware of the shipment, to stop it from reaching Gaddafi's forces.

Libyan opposition sources expressed concern about the ship, saying it was sailing under a Libyan flag, carrying weapons, and arrived on July 19 at the port of Djen Djen in Algeria, from where the cargo was being taken over the border into Libya.

"We have heard reports that a ship carrying arms to Gaddafi's regime was recently permitted to dock in Algeria and that these weapons are currently being transported overland into neighboring Libya," the State Department official told Reuters.

"The United States government is working to ascertain the veracity of these claims, which have only just come to light. If true, this would likely constitute a violation of U.N. Security Council Resolutions 1970 and 1973."

The United States this month formally recognized the rebel National Transitional Council as the legitimate interim government of Libya and has called on Gaddafi to step down.

The rebels have waged a five-month campaign seeking to oust Gaddafi, backed by NATO air strikes.

"The government of Algeria has told us on numerous occasions, and has stated publicly, that it has strictly adhered to all (U.N. Security Council resolutions) regarding the Libyan conflict," the State Department official said.

"We call on the government of Algeria to continue stringent enforcement of these resolutions and, if aware of this particular shipment of arms, to ensure that it does not reach Colonel Gaddafi's forces."

The Portuguese U.N. mission, which is chair of the Libya sanctions committee, said it had not received any notification of the alleged violation.

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Gaddafi aide wounded in Tripoli rocket attack-rebel

ROME, July 22 (Reuters) - A Libyan rebel official said on Friday that a member of Muammar Gaddafi's inner circle had been seriously wounded by a rocket attack on a room in Tripoli where senior Libyan officials were meeting.

Ali Essawi, in charge of foreign affairs for the rebels fighting Gaddafi, said one of the Libyan leader's sons, Saif al-Islam, Prime Minister al-Baghdadi Ali Al-Mahmoudi, intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi and an official named Mansour Daw were in the room at the time of the attack on Thursday.

Daw is a former bodyguard of Gaddafi who is a close aide.

"Yesterday there was a very strong signal in Tripoli -- that there was an attack (on) an operations room where there were senior and high, top-level officials including Saif al-Islam, al-Baghdadi Mahmoudi, Abdullah Senussi and Mansour, who (was) severely injured," Essawi told a news conference in Rome.

"We confirm this."

He did not say how he knew of the attack in the Gaddafi-held Libyan capital or who was behind it. Officials of Gaddafi's government were not immediately available for comment.

Italy's Foreign Minister Franco Frattini, who held talks with Essawi before they addressed reporters together, later said it was not clear which official had been seriously wounded, but that it was "probably" Daw.

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Brandstoftekort voor Libische rebellen in Misurata

De Libische rebellenstad Misurata kampt met een nijpend tekort aan brandstof, nadat Libische regeringstroepen een brandstofdepot van de stad hebben geraakt. Een raket heeft gezorgd voor een grote brand.

De meeste tankstations in de stad zijn gesloten sinds maandag. Automobilisten staan in een lange rij voor de pompen die nog wel open zijn.

De grote kuststad, met circa een half miljoen inwoners, is geheel omsingeld door troepen van de Libische leider Muammar Kaddafi. Eten en benzine komen over zee.

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Britten zetten Libisch ambassadepersoneel land uit, erkennen rebellenraad als regering
Het Verenigd Koninkrijk laat tegenover Reuters weten dat het de acht resterende Libische regeringsvertegenwoordigers het land uitzet. Volgens Sky News maakt dit de weg vrij voor leden van de rebellenraad om zitting te nemen in de Libische ambassade in het Verenigd Koninkrijk.

De Britse nieuwszender beweert tevens dat enkele van de ambassadeleden al hebben aangegeven naar Benghazi af te reizen omdat zij zich willen aansluiten bij de anti-regimebeweging. Volgens persbureau AP erkent het Verenigd Koninkrijk de Nationale Overgangsraad in Libië vanaf nu als legitieme volksvertegenwoordiging en regering.

De landen van de Libië Contact Groep erkenden de Nationale Overgangsraad twee weken geleden als de legitieme autoriteit in Libië. Volgens de Italiaanse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Franco Frattini liet dat Moammar Gaddafi geen andere keuze dan op te stappen.

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Op woensdag 27 juli 2011 14:51 schreef Szura het volgende:
Schijnbaar is de Lockerbie-dader op de Libische tv verschenen bij een pro-Gaddafi-bijeenkomst.
Waarom hebben ze die hond ooit vrij gelaten Hij leeft na 2 jaar nog steeds.

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Libyan rebel forces rescue 100 hostages from behind enemy lines

Fighters celebrate after audacious raid frees families snatched from Misrata by government troops and held for three months

Rebel forces in the besieged Libyan city of Misrata have announced the rescue from behind enemy lines of 105 civilians kidnapped by pro-Gaddafi forces.

Commanders said the rescue of families on Sunday was planned in co-ordination with Nato.

The captives were seized in the Ghiran district of Misrata on 24 April while fierce fighting raged in the city.

Art student Hawa Ahmed, 20, said she was woken that morning by government soldiers banging at her door.

"They told us we had 10 minutes to leave, we had no time to take anything," she said.

The troops said they had orders to evacuate the city and ordered families into their own cars. Ahmed's mother and father were not at home so she, her younger sister and brother were taken in her uncle's car.

"We drove out of the city, there were nine people in our car," she said. "The soldiers were very rude, shouting at us. They gave us no food, no water."

The journey ended 50 miles south at the small desert village of Garara Qataf, where the army told them to find their own accommodation.

Local families took them in but conditions were crowded, with 24 people sharing the house Ahmed was assigned, and 50 in a neighbouring property.

Men in the group were subjected to interrogations by government troops, who also set up checkpoints at either end of the village.

"They called us in many times, asking us pointless questions," said one of the kidnapped men, Amran Jusef, 55.

"When Nato [planes] came all the Gaddafi soldiers would run and hide, they would run away from their vehicles. One group hid in the mosque."

Back in Misrata, the missing were assumed to have been kidnapped but nothing more was known. City officials say more than 1,000 people have been abducted from Misrata's suburbs by government troops.

Then came a breakthrough. Although phone networks in Misrata have collapsed, the government mobile phone network is still functioning.

One of the younger men in the kidnapped group had spent time with the Halbus brigade, one of the groups of rebel fighters in the city, and remembered the satellite phone number of a commander.

A mobile phone was obtained and the number dialled – to be answered by a surprised Halbus brigade soldier.

Commanders of the brigade – the best equipped formation in the city's rebel force, armed with tanks, artillery and pickup trucks carrying anti-aircraft guns – immediately formed a rescue plan.

"At first it was impossible to fetch them," said operations officer Elabed Ben Taher. "But then we pushed eastwards and the families contacted us."

The rebels say Nato has told them not to advance beyond current front lines, allowing bomber jets to strike any military target they see beyond it.

"We informed Nato so they knew our positions – we told them we're going to get some families," said Taher.

At dawn on Sunday morning the raiding force drove through a lightly defended part of the frontline. One bonus was that the kidnapped families had been left their cars, so a rendezvous outside Garara Qataf was arranged.

The families were woken by a phone call at dawn. "I didn't know we had the possibility to escape, but the rebels planned it for many weeks," said Ahmed.

"We were told to get ready at six in the morning. We were very scared."

Then came a final hitch, when the Halbus column came across a patrol of three government jeeps. A short gun battle ended in the destruction of two jeeps with the third one fleeing.

At 9am the Halbus units met the refugees, filming the encounter, then pulled back to the Misrata front line.

For the city's rebels, it was a small victory in a bitter campaign.

For Ahmed and her two siblings, there is joy at being reunited with their parents.

"We are over-happy to be back," she said. "I don't believe I'm here, it was a nightmare. A nightmare."

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Op woensdag 27 juli 2011 22:41 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

 
Libyan rebel forces rescue 100 hostages from behind enemy lines

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Op donderdag 28 juli 2011 00:20 schreef Piet_Piraat het volgende:
Wie is er aan de winnende hand momenteel? Het duurt wat lang allemaal en je bent weer druk met andere dingen.

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Libyan refugee testimony28.07.2011
by Leonor Massanet and Flavio Signore

Flavio Signore is a film maker, and he and Leonor traveled recently to Libya as they often do, to record events on the ground so that the truth may be known about the aggression against Libya.


NATO's terrorist darlings admit they are only there to kill and destroy

The armed rebels, backed by NATO use very dangerous groups as an advanced patrol to scare the population into surrender. The Libyan people describe them as foreigners, without any goals. The first thing they do is rob the banks, setting fire to public places and they have a blacklist of people who are murdered as an "example," that is to say live slayings. Then they carve the corpses up and hang them on the square.

When these groups advanced across the border from Tunisia, they entered the city Wazin, west of Nalut. The locals had already heard about the atrocities committed, and in three hours most of the families left their homes and fled with nothing across the Sahara not to be located.

Font Size Send to friendFrom Wazin they went to Drhiba, a city on the border with Tunisia. It is only 5 Km away but they were driving 35 km / hour to go through Saharan dust. All families met in Drhiba and from there searched for cars and buses to go to Tripoli where they knew they would be protected.

The Wazin exit was April 21 and they arrived in Drhiba on April 22. Their route was: From Drhiba to Armada to Ben Guerdane (Tunisia) and Ras Ajdir which is on the northern border of Tunisia / Libya. There were almost 100 families altogether. Upon reaching the border, we were received by Libyan government officials, we were welcomed and they helped us to enter.

They divided us between the resort town of Suarah and initially they took us to a hotel and then we were brought here to Tilil in Sabrata. As soon as we arrived, the government gave us everything necessary to live, food, gasoline and everything we needed.

We visited the towns to interview refugees and we found a heavenly Mediterranean virgin beachfront place. Families there seem happy and relaxed despite sorrow and the difficult, bad situation they have lived through so recently. The children run about on the lawn and come to greet us.

The very hospitable families invited us to an afternoon snack and tea and were very open with us. They explained what happened to them, and also that it happens to many more families in Libya because once these groups of foreigner's patrols arrive, they are forced to flee, as well as when NATO bombs houses or places nearby.

The Libyan government does not allow anyone to be homeless for even one day, as we have seen. All tourist villages and hotels in Tripoli and the West are full of refugees. Some fled from Ijdabiya, Azzentan and many other places.

We told Aljazeera TV that they were bombing but they did nothing. The rebels have phoned them and told them that if they were on their side they would give them money.

They said that Qatar would help us, but they are a nation with long beards. They burned our homes and some of the other attackers were Tunisians and Egyptians. They say they are people "without a program," just burning and stealing. They say to us that they are not there for a revolution, but are only there to burn, break and kill.

　

http://www.youtube.com/user/resistancesfilms?feature=mhee

http://www.leonorenlibia.blogspot.com

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NATO war crimes - Taking action25.07.2011
I hereby present evidence of NATO war crimes in Libya against international legally binding agreements, presenting the facts and allegations open for investigation by the competent bodies; in the name of humanity I request those with powers to take this one stage further, confirming that Humankind has reached an acceptable level of civilization.

I allege that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization has once again breached international law and has committed war crimes in Libya. The international community has the duty to take this matter seriously, investigate the allegations and begin legal proceedings to bring those accused before due legal process and justice.

I hereby present a report of several instances of war crimes and breach of international law by NATO in the current conflict in Libya in 2011.

0
SharePrint version Font Size Send to friend1. Article 3 of the Statute of The Hague International Penal Court states clearly that one criterion for indictment for war crimes is:

"Attack or bombardment, by whatever means, against undefended cities, towns, villages, buildings or houses".

NATO's continuous use of civilian targets for military purposes, a scenario which this military organization wantonly and callously calls "collateral damage", fits this clause exactly and would be the cornerstone of a case accusing this organisation of being guilty of war crimes;

2. Another clause of the same Article 3 could also be used:

"Massive destruction of cities, towns or villages or destruction not justified by military necessity".

The attack on Libya's water supply network on Friday July 22 and the attack on the factory making pipes for the supply system on Saturday July 23 in al-Brega were not covered under "military necessity" in which case, under Article 3, this was an act of wanton destruction of civilian structures with military hardware. This renders NATO liable for trial by its own court, the ICC at The Hague;

3. UNSC Resolution 2131 (XX) of 21 December 1965, containing the Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention in the Domestic Affairs of States was backed up by Resolutions 31/91 of 14 December 1976, 32/153 of 19 December 1977, 33/74 of 15 December 1978, 34/101 of 14 December 1979 and 35/159 of 12 December 1980 on non-interference in the internal affairs of States;

NATO is hereby accused of taking sides in a civil war inside Libya, moreover there are indications that this is a civil war started by NATO member states:

3.1 There is evidence that armed groups fighting inside Libya include the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG) which according to the British Government: "The LIFG seeks to replace the current Libyan regime with a hard-line Islamic state. The group is also part of the wider global Islamist extremist movement, as inspired by Al Qa'ida. The group has mounted several operations inside Libya, including a 1996 attempt to assassinate Mu'ammar Qadhafi" and for which reason is on the Home Office list of proscribed terrorist groups (1);

Why then is NATO supporting this terrorist group and others in an internal conflict?

4. Under the UN Charter, Chapter VI, Article 33, member states must "seek a solution by negotiation, enquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, resort to regional agencies or arrangements, or other peaceful means of their own choice".

Did NATO do this in the case of Libya? No, it used a false flag event, namely the massacre of civilians by "rebel" forces (the allegations must be investigated) (2) (3);

5. Under the UN Charter, Chapter VII, Article 46: "Plans for the application of armed force shall be made by the Security Council with the assistance of the Military Staff Committee". Such committee was never convened.

This is a violation of the UN Charter rendering Resolutions 1970 and 1973 (2011) void, as indeed rendered also the reaction from NATO after the above-mentioned false flag events;

6. Chapter VII, Article 51 refers to the right of States to defend themselves against armed insurgency:

Unarmed civilians

"Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security"

in which case NATO had no reason to attack the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya;

7. NATO's remit in Libya comes under UNSC Resolutions 1970 and 1973 (2011) which, summarised, concentrated on no boots on the ground in Libya among NATO forces and this is not the case - in the recent battle of Al-Brega, hundreds of French and British troops are alleged to have been caught (pending investigation);

8. Without any formal declaration of war, NATO's strikes against civilian structures come outside any possible conditions imposed by rules of engagement, in which case the armed attack against a civilian residence occasioning the murder of Muammar al-Qathafi's son Saif al-Arab al-Qathafi and three of his grandchildren would occasion a case for prosecution; furthermore other strikes against structures where Muammar al-Qathafi was alleged to have been would constitute cases for prosecution for attempted murder;

9. Violation of the Geneva Conventions by NATO: Under the Geneva Convention IV, Article 3 (a): "To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons: (a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds:"

Armed attacks with military hardware against civilian structures occasioning murder, grievous bodily harm of actual bodily harm render NATO liable under this clause.

10. The Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) prohibits the use of chemical weapons. Therefore it is imperative to investigate the allegations that NATO used phosphorous in the battle of al-Brega between July 17 and July 24 2011.

For these ten (10) cases of violation or possible violation of international law, I hereby request that the competent authorities, upholders of international law perform their duty in investigating these allegations through due legal process and bring to a court of justice the perpetrators of these crimes;

For which I also call upon the UNO and the Member States party to its Charter to end the current conflict in Libya immediately as of July 24 2011 and for the proper institutions for crisis management to be used, as it was intended in the UN Charter.

In the name of Humankind, I subscribe,

Timothy Bancroft-Hinchey

Pravda.Ru

(1) http://www.homeoffice.gov(...)d-groups?view=Binary



(2)

- Media Lies About Libya and Gaddafi! (Removed from YouTube).

(3)

Inside NATO airstrikes in Libya

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Op donderdag 28 juli 2011 13:46 schreef Hadith het volgende:

[..]

http://english.pravda.ru/(...)118580-libya_nato-0/

quote:

Op donderdag 28 juli 2011 14:18 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

Shameonyou, is that you?

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General Abdel Fatah Younis, the chief of staff of the rebel forces in Libya, has been arrested by the National Transition Council.

He is being held at an undisclosed military garrison in Benghazi.

A rebel source said Younis was recalled from Brega early on Thursday, but could not say why.

Reuters news agency said a senior member of the NTC confirmed Younes was in Benghazi but said he had returned from the front line unhappy with the situation on the ground, and officials were trying to persuade him to return.

Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley, reporting from Benghazi, quoted unconfirmed reports as saying Libya's former minister of interior was arrested for dealing with and smuggling arms to Gaddafi loyalists. Younis defected to the rebel side in February.

"He spent 40 years as one of Gaddafi's right hand men as minister of defence and in charge of the special forces. So when he came over five months ago to the opposition cause it was quite a coup. But some people have had their doubts about… his loyalties...

Some of his men have come back from the front line demanding his release. This is an ugly situation in the making," our correspondent said.

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Farther west, Ghazaya had been bombard by rebel tanks and "long-range guns" throughout Wednesday night in preparation for the attack, an opposition source said.

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Op donderdag 28 juli 2011 21:31 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

http://english.aljazeera.(...)728144624965299.html

Khaddafi heeft nog steeds misschien wel meer dan de helft van het land in handen, en nú beginnen de opstandelingen al onder elkaar ruzie te maken. Ongelooflijk.

quote:

• Confusion surrounds the fate of Libyan rebels military commander Abdel Fatah Younis. According to some reports he was arrested after an investigation into unauthorised trips to Tripoli, but Younis himself has dismissed the story as a rumour spread by the Gaddafi regime.

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Op donderdag 28 juli 2011 21:32 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Uit hetzelfde artikel:

[..]

Ergens anders las ik ook over raketaanvallen door de opstandelingen. Waar is die NAVO nu, nu rebellen steden onder vuur nemen?

O, was die VN-resolutie maar een toneelstukje? Goh...

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12.55pm: Rebels fighters in the Nafusa mountains appear to have been forced out of the town of al-Jawsh by Gaddafi's rockets and snipers, according to the latest battle tweets from al-Jazeera's James Bays.

Live blog: Twitter

LIBYA opp fighters say they did not retreat from Al Jawsh. It was "a strategic withdrawal"

#LIBYA opp fighters now in a position close to Al Jawsh, but Grads landing nearby.

#LIBYA Fighters say in the town they were prevented from fighting back because of "human shields"

#LIBYA opp fighters have all pulled out of Al Jawsh. They say they were targeted by snipers.

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Op vrijdag 29 juli 2011 01:45 schreef svann het volgende:
Ik ga de verwikkelingen rond Younis even rustig nalezen overal.
Snap er niet veel van.

quote:

Abdul Fatah Younis ambush killing blamed on pro-Gaddafi forces

Libyan rebel army leader's death announced at chaotic late-night press conference in Benghazi

The Libyan rebels' chief of army staff, Abdel Fatah Younis, has been killed in an assassination by pro-Gaddafi agents, according to the rebel authorities.

The president of the ruling National Transitional Council, Abdul Mustafa Jalil, made the dramatic announcement of the death of Younis at a chaotic late-night press conference at a hotel in Benghazi.

He told reporters that Younis had been called back from the frontline near Brega to Benghazi for questioning on the progress of the campaign, and suggested he had been killed by "pro-Gaddafi" forces on the route early in the morning.

But questions remain over the lack of detail over how Younis died or who killed him. The general usually travels inside an armoured car in a multi-vehicle convoy with 30 armed guards, posing problems for any potential assassination team.

Jalil said two senior rebel officers were killed alongside Younis, and demanded that what he called pro-Gaddafi elements he said were operating in Benghazi surrender or join the rebel forces.

The shock announcement came after a day of heated speculation that Younis had been arrested on the orders of Jalil. Younis was Gaddafi's former interior minister until he dramatically changed sides to join the revolution in February.

The rumours were still swirling late on Thursday night, with armed men declaring their support for Younis appearing on the streets of Benghazi, claiming they would use force to free him from NTC custody.

Soldiers loyal to Jalil from the 17 Brigade, Benghazi's elite unit, had surrounded Younis's house in the late afternoon.

Then in the evening, Jalil said at the press conference that "with regret" he had to announce the death of general Younis. Jalil called him "one of the heroes of the 17th of February revolution".

Minutes later, gunfire broke out in the street outside the Benghazi hotel where the announcement was made, with machine gun bullets smashing windows.

The press conference, which ended abruptly with the NTC president refusing to take questions, failed to explain how the general could have been ambushed in a highly guarded convoy.

Younis has been a controversial figure as head of the rebel forces because – until the uprising – he was Muammar Gaddafi's Interior Minister, one of his most trusted officials and confidants. The general's friendship with Gaddafi dated from 1969 when he joined a group of fresh-faced army officers in deposing Libya's king.

But when riots came to the streets of Benghazi in February, he dramatically switched sides, joining the rebels and bringing the city's interior ministry military brigade with him.

That brigade was crucial in helping the under-armed rebels fight off the attacks by regime forces in the first days of the fighting, and command of this unit is believed to have been the key to the decision of rebel leaders in appointing him army commander.

But his tenure as commander was stormy: he reportedly nearly came to blows with his rival for the army command, Klalifa Hefter, during a meeting in late March.

For much of that month both men claimed to be in command of the ragtag rebel forces as they raced west towards Tripoli, only to be thrown back towards Benghazi in chaos and confusion.

By April, Younis had won the political battle inside the National Transitional Council and was confirmed as chief of staff but he failed to use his new position to bring victory on the battlefield.

Since April, the frontline has remained largely in stalemate, despite heavy Nato bombing of government forces around the key oil town of Brega.

Younis launched an attack on Brega in June, only to see it beaten back.

Two weeks ago, aided by some of the heaviest Nato tactical bombing of the war, he tried again, with a three-pronged attack on the town.

Rebel military spokesmen repeatedly insisted that Brega was on the point of falling but, after a fortnight of fighting, the town remains in government hands.

The rebels in the besieged city of Misrata have conspicuously refused to accept orders from Younis, to the extent of insisting that their fighters are not part of the Benghazi-controlled National Army.

Many rebels were shocked by the news of the killing. "We respect him because he left Gaddafi; when he left a lot of colonels saw what Younis did and they defected also," said Farouk Ben Ahmeda, a rebel fighter in Misrata.

But few think that his military skills will be irreplaceable.

"I don't think that he was really a professional soldier; he didn't command the soldiers well," said Ben Ahmeda.

The assassination will cause embarrassment and concern for the Foreign Office in the UK, as it comes just a day after the foreign secretary, William Hague, said that Britain would recognise the NTC as the legitimate government of Libya and expelling Gaddafi's diplomats.

London had hoped that after months of work, the NTC was now fit to govern. Unless Jalil can provide a full and public account of the assassination and the circumstances around it, that opinion may need to be revised.

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Libyan rebels say commander killed by allied militia

* Younes "killed by men sent to bring him to Benghazi"
* Assassination adds to West's worries about rebels
* Anti-Gaddafi forces claim towns near Tunisian border

BENGHAZI, Libya, July 29 (Reuters) - Libyan rebels said on Friday the gunmen who shot dead the rebel military chief were fighters of an allied militia, in apparent confirmation of deep rifts among the forces struggling to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi.

The reports follow 24 hours of confusion over the killing of Abdel Fattah Younes, a defector from Gaddafi's inner circle, whose death deals a blow both to the rebels and their Western backers.

There had been widespread speculation as to whether Younes had been killed in an internal rebel feud or by Gaddafi forces which had penetrated the Benghazi-based movement.

The killing of such a senior figure was a setback for the rebels as they were winning broader international recognition and launching an offensive in the west, and has deepened fears that divisions within the rebel camp will prolong the conflict.

Rebel minister Ali Tarhouni told reporters in Benghazi that an allied militia leader who had gone to fetch Younes from the front line had been arrested and had confessed that his subordinates had carried out the killing.

"It was not him. His lieutenants did it," Tarhouni said, without giving details about the militia. He added that the killers were still at large.

Rebel leader Mustafa Abdel Jalil said on Thursday Younes had been recalled for questioning to Benghazi but was killed before he arrived. Relatives said they retrieved a burned and bullet-riddled body.

CALLS FOR UNITY

The rebels have seized swathes of the country, but five months into the rebellion still appear far from ousting Gaddafi and remain poorly equipped.

Speculation about the assassination of Younes ranged widely. There were reports that he had been suspected of feeding the Gaddafi camp with information. One rebel commander said Islamists whom Younes had targeted in his job as interior minister may have been to blame.

The United States, which like some 30 other nations has formally recognised the opposition, said Younes's death was a blow but called for solidarity among the rebels.

"What's important is that they work both diligently and transparently to ensure the unity of the Libyan opposition," State Department spokesman Mark Toner said in Washington.

On Friday, weeping relatives and supporters brought Younes's coffin into the main square of Benghazi to mourn him, as fighters fired guns in the air.

Some family members vowed allegiance to the rebels' political leader. "A message to Mustafa Abdel Jalil: We will walk with you all the way," nephew Mohammed Younes told hundreds of mourners in the main square.

RUMOURS OF SECRET TALKS

Younes, from eastern Libya where the rebels are strongest, had been Gaddafi's interior minister but switched sides to become the military chief in the rebel Transitional National Council.

Rebel defence minister Omar Hariri, visiting the west, said Younes's death would have an impact on rebel fighters. "But they will recover, and there will be other leaders," he said.

Rebels took swathes of Libya soon after launching their uprising in February against Gaddafi's 41 years of domination of the oil-producing North African state, but have made few recent advances despite the support of NATO air strikes.

They said they had seized several towns in the Western Mountains on Thursday but are yet to make a major breakthrough.

A rebel commander near Ghezaia told Reuters on Friday that around 100 insurgents had taken control of the town, from which Gaddafi forces had dominated plains below the mountains.

Reuters could not go there to confirm the report as rebels said the area could be mined. But through binoculars from a rebel-held ridge near Nalut, reporters could see no sign of Gaddafi's forces in Ghezaia.

Fighters on the front line near the town of Misrata said they viewed Younes as a martyr and would avenge his death.

"It will be an extra motive for us in the fight against the tyrant," said Khaled al-Uwayyib.

With prospects fading for a negotiated settlement, the five-month-old civil war will grind on into the Muslim holy month of Ramadan in August.

Nick Witney, analyst at the European Council on Foreign Relations in Paris, said the West had hoped for a "nice simple conflict" with right prevailing, but this had ignored the nuanced, tribal nature of Libyan politics.

"It was a brave and right thing to do," he said. "But I feel we've lost the moral high ground a bit and wandered into something that will be prolonged and messy, but we're not in a position to sort out."

quote:

Op zaterdag 30 juli 2011 10:37 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Ja, ziet er allemaal weer zinvol en doordacht uit. God, wat een fout, deze oorlog.

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Op zaterdag 30 juli 2011 22:06 schreef Tem het volgende:

[..]

Maar goed, daar waren we al vanaf de aftrap over uit.

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Op zaterdag 30 juli 2011 22:08 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Daarom is het zo... frustrerend of vermoeiend om te zien dat de Westerse overheden na Irak en Afghanistan het toch weer doen. Dit houdt in dat over vijf jaar er wel weer een land wordt aangevallen of over twintig jaar. Wat een zinloze onzin allemaal.