POL Politiek
Discussies en diepgaande gesprekken over de politiek in de breedste zin van het woord kun je hier voeren.
Vraag me ook af waar de cijfers van 400.000 gedode Turken in Van en Bitlis vandaan komen. Alles wat ik zo snel kan vinden wijst erop dat er nooit zoveel Turken kunnen zijn omgebracht.
Winnaar Agnes Kant knuffel 2010.
Indeed, what are the roots of western geometry? Nothing else but the Egyptian techniques of surveying property.
Indeed, what are the roots of western geometry? Nothing else but the Egyptian techniques of surveying property.
Je snijdt jezelf hiermee genadeloos in de vingers. Wat dat betreft heeft het openen van dit topic je zaak niet echt goed gedaan door je eigen gedrag. Mensen uitschelden voor klootzat en gestoord omdat ze het niet met je eens zijn...quote:Op maandag 12 april 2010 15:20 schreef polderturk het volgende:
Het spijt me overigens dat ik wat harder wordt in mijn reacties. Sommige leden beginnen me echter persoonlijk aan te vallen. Het frustreert mij een beetje dat sommigen niet de moeite nemen alle berichten die ik heb geplaatst te lezen.
Wat betreft de bloedbaden onder de niet-Armeense bevolking nog maar eens: niemand ontkent dat dat gebeurd is of dat dat goed is. De aantallen, de lezing en vooral de motivatie alleen anders gekleurd. Het belangrijkste is echter, dat dit grotendeels gebeurde ná de genocide.
Deze gebeurtenissen kun je dus nooit afdoen als een geldige reden om een compleet volk gepland om te brengen. Niets kan dat verdedigen.
Zal straks nog een aantal citaten uit Turkse monden uit Turkse bronnen citeren blijkt hoe de genocide van tevoren gepland was, hoe de Russische inmenging uitgelokt was door de Turken zelf en hoe er na de genocide processen in het jonge Turkije verliepen.
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Eerst hoe de Turkse regering zelf Rusland de oorlog in lokte:
Atif Bey (maar dan zonder stip op de i) verklaarde:
Atif Bey (maar dan zonder stip op de i) verklaarde:
quote:We stuurden mensen naar Rusland die patriot waren en kennis hadden van de lokale situatie. Door middel van deze personen zetten we een organisatie op die zich richtte op de eenvoudige moslimbevolking in het gebied (...) en die ons hulp kon garanderen voor het geval ons leger naar die streken zou oprukken.
(Vijfde zitting, Takvîm-i Vekâya, nr. 3554 (12 mayis1335/12 mei 1919)
Çürüksülü Mahmud Pasha, voormalig minister van Openbare Werken:quote:De Oostenrijkse ambassadeur (een bondgenoot) in Trabzon rapporteerde dat op 2 september 1914 een gevechtseenheid van honderd man Rusland was binnengevallen om er een opstand te ontketenen. Uit andere bronnen weten we dat dit getal in feite veel hoger was
(Akçam 2006:143-143)
De Turkse journalist Ahmet Emin Yalman tekende uit de mond van Bahaettin Shakir op over de Armeniërs in deze context:quote:Met zocht zijn toevlucht tot middelen die haaks op het neutraliteitsprincipe stonden(...) Er werden heel wat voorbereidingen getroffen en ophitsende plannen bedacht en uitgevoerd - vooral bij de grenzen van Syrië en Anatolië - die laten zien dat men graag oorlog wilde.
(Ibid., 12 Kânnunuevvek 1334 (12 december 1918), Pershembe, 25, Inikad, blz. 316-317
quote:Het was iedereen duidelijk dat de blijvende aanwezigheid van de Armeniërs die bij en langs de Russische grens woonden, een groe bedreiging voor de toekomst van het land vormden. Voor het welzijn van de natie was het noodzakelijk alles in het werk te stellen om dit gevaar te bezweren. sloeg je die weg in, dan zou je misschien tegengesteld handelen aan het volkenrecht en de menselijkheid....
(Yakin Tarihte Gördüklerim ve Geçirdiklerim, dl. 1 (Istanbul, 1970), blz. 332)
Die bendes waren speciaal gecreëerd voor dit werk uit gevangenen, criminelen en hardasses uit het Turkse leger:quote:In september [1914] begonnen de militaire acties tegen Rusland en de Armeniërs (noot: de oorlog werd pas officieel in november geopend!). In september startten de milities vooral langs de grens met de Kaukasus, met hun aanvallen op Armeens dorpen en ook op Armeense intellectuelen, politici en religieuze leiders.
Volgens Lepsius "zagen de gewapende bendes het als hun voornaamste taak om de Armeense dorpen binnen te vallen en te plunderen..."
(Lepsius Der Todesgang, pag. 35)
Let er vooral even op dat deze bronnen vooral uit jouw geliefde Ottomaanse archieven komenquote:Talaat Pasha zei:
"dat de gevangen die nodig zijn voor de irreguliere eenheden vrijgelaten zullen worden"
(Ibid. afleveringsnr 27. (29 Inkincitesrin/november 1933)
Falih rifki Atay:
"Een leger van moordenaars...dat het Centrale Comité gewapende bendes van moordenaars had geformeerd en dat ze onder bevel stonden van mensen die wij kenden, en dat ik me in verbinding met Dr. Nazim moest stellen"
(Falih Rifki Atay 1985:35-36)
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Jeetje.. als je nu zelfs al door gaat op je mobiel.....quote:Op dinsdag 13 april 2010 15:52 schreef polderturk het volgende:
Ik reageer nu met een mobieltje. Dat is best lastig. Ik kom er later nog op terug.
Ik snap dat het je aan het hart gaat, maar.... je leven hangt er toch niet vanaf? Of wel?
Probeer het toch een beetje te relativeren. Hoe ernstig het onderwerp ook is.
Het is ten slotte iets dat niet meer terug te draaien is. Er is ook nog een heden en een toekomst!
Niets van dit alles is een wezensvreemde ontmoeting tussen een jij en een ik, zodat we nooit of te nimmer zullen weten wie die jij is en wie die ik.
Polderturk, je verandert die P maar beter in een K.
-6- Gehoorzaam de wetten van de HERE, uw God. Volg Zijn weg en heb ontzag voor Hem.
De armeense genocide is inderdaad onzin. Ze zijn allemaal gedeporteerd. Zo zie je ook dat Armenië de grootste diaspora in de wereld heeft.
De armeense economie is zelfs afhankelijk van hun diaspora. Hun diaspora is ook best wel machtig in Amerika. Geen wonder dat armeense wetenschappers 'de Armeense genocide' erkennen.
Maar dit even terzijde (of je nou erin gelooft of niet), wat over de genocide in Azerbaijan, Khojaly genocide?
Armeniërs hebben in 1992 honderden mensen (ook vrouwen, kinderen en baby's) in Karabakh vermoord.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_Massacre
De volgende video bevat schokkende beelden.
De armeense economie is zelfs afhankelijk van hun diaspora. Hun diaspora is ook best wel machtig in Amerika. Geen wonder dat armeense wetenschappers 'de Armeense genocide' erkennen.
Maar dit even terzijde (of je nou erin gelooft of niet), wat over de genocide in Azerbaijan, Khojaly genocide?
Armeniërs hebben in 1992 honderden mensen (ook vrouwen, kinderen en baby's) in Karabakh vermoord.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_Massacre
De volgende video bevat schokkende beelden.
SPOILEROm spoilers te kunnen lezen moet je zijn ingelogd. Je moet je daarvoor eerst gratis Registreren. Ook kun je spoilers niet lezen als je een ban hebt.
quote:Op donderdag 15 april 2010 21:36 schreef gitler het volgende:
De armeense genocide is inderdaad onzin. Ze zijn allemaal gedeporteerd. Zo zie je ook dat Armenië de grootste diaspora in de wereld heeft.
De armeense economie is zelfs afhankelijk van hun diaspora. Hun diaspora is ook best wel machtig in Amerika. Geen wonder dat armeense wetenschappers 'de Armeense genocide' erkennen.
Maar dit even terzijde (of je nou erin gelooft of niet), wat over de genocide in Azerbaijan, Khojaly genocide?
Armeniërs hebben in 1992 honderden mensen (ook vrouwen, kinderen en baby's) in Karabakh vermoord.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_Massacre
De volgende video bevat schokkende beelden.Nee, dit niet even terzijde. Wat jij hier neerkwakt gaat over 77 jaar later. Heel naar en fout, maar daar hebben we het hier niet over. Doe dat dus maar terzijde.SPOILEROm spoilers te kunnen lezen moet je zijn ingelogd. Je moet je daarvoor eerst gratis Registreren. Ook kun je spoilers niet lezen als je een ban hebt.If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Kijk, dit laat wel zien hoe armeniers zijn. Het is 77 jaar later maar dit sluit er gewoon bij aan hoor.quote:Op donderdag 15 april 2010 21:43 schreef Mwanatabu het volgende:
[..]
Nee, dit niet even terzijde. Wat jij hier neerkwakt gaat over 77 jaar later. Heel naar en fout, maar daar hebben we het hier niet over. Doe dat dus maar terzijde.
Als jij dit geen nuttige informatie noemt, dan kan ik ook niet meer verwachten van jou.
Deze genocide is bewezen, maar kijk je bij de armeense kant, dan zie je gewoon dat dit nog wordt ontkent, en er zelfs andere verhalen worden verzonnen. Nee laat maar, dit wil jij niet weten en gaat HELEMAAL over iets anders...
Ik heb de video niet bekeken, maar je verhaal klopt niet.quote:Op donderdag 15 april 2010 22:02 schreef gitler het volgende:
[..]
Kijk, dit laat wel zien hoe armeniers zijn. Het is 77 jaar later maar dit sluit er gewoon bij aan hoor.
Als jij dit geen nuttige informatie noemt, dan kan ik ook niet meer verwachten van jou.
Deze genocide is bewezen, maar kijk je bij de armeense kant, dan zie je gewoon dat dit nog wordt ontkent, en er zelfs andere verhalen worden verzonnen. Nee laat maar, dit wil jij niet weten en gaat HELEMAAL over iets anders...
Het uitmoorden van een dorp is geen genocide. Daarmee is het niet goedgepraat, maar het valt gewoon in een andere categorie. Het uitroeien van een volk is genocide. En dan ook nog het uitroeien van een volk omdat het dat volk is.
Edit:
Oh, en ik ben geen Armeniër. Mijn ouders zijn Nederlanders en de familie van mijn vader is zelfs aantoonbaar Nederlands vanaf 1600.
Onderschat nooit de kracht van domme mensen in grote groepen!
Der Irrsinn ist bei Einzelnen etwas Seltenes - aber bei Gruppen, Parteien, Völkern, Zeiten die Regel. (Friedrich Nietzsche)
Der Irrsinn ist bei Einzelnen etwas Seltenes - aber bei Gruppen, Parteien, Völkern, Zeiten die Regel. (Friedrich Nietzsche)
Dat is het officiële verhaal niet. Waar haal je dat vandaan?quote:Op maandag 5 april 2010 17:44 schreef polderturk het volgende:
[..]
Het officiele verhaal is nu eenmaal dat er geen Armeense opstand was en dat de Turken zomaar 1,5 miljoen Armeniers heeft vermoord. Ik wil aantonen dat dat officiele verhaal niet klopt.
Op 8 mei 1915 zijn er 40.000 Koerden en Turken vermoord door Armeniers in Bitlis. Waarom wordt dat niet op deze chronologie vermeld? Op 22 mei zijn er 80,000 Koerden en Turken vermoord door Armeniers in Van. Waarom wordt dat niet vermeld in onderstaande chronologie?quote:Op vrijdag 16 april 2010 08:02 schreef Roquentin het volgende:
[..]
Dat is het officiële verhaal niet. Waar haal je dat vandaan?
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/1915-2.html
Allied nationals in Beirut (Beyrut) are deported to Damascus and dispersed from there.
May 6
The New York Times reports that the Young Turks had adopted a policy to annihilate the Armenians.
May 9
Lord Grey, British Minister of Foreign Affairs, sends a message to Enver holding him personally responsible should anything happen to the 3,000 captive English and French civilians.
May 10
950 prominent Armenians are arrested in Diyarbekir on orders from Dr. Reshid, the governor-general of Diyarbekir Province.
May 10
The Armenian refugees from Zeitun found in Marash, who had previously been spared deportation, are removed to the Syrian Desert.
May 12
Vartkes, an Armenian deputy in the Ottoman Parliament, visits Talaat to protest the arrests of April 24.
May 14
English and French civilian prisoners are deported to the interior of Anatolia.
May 19
Advance troops of the Russian Army in the Caucasus led by Armenian volunteers reach Van and lift the siege of city.
May 19
Armenians in the Khnus region of Erzerum Province are massacred.
May 21
Regular Russian Army forces arrive in Van. They begin the cremation of the dead in the city and in the villages of the province. 55,000 dead are identified as Armenians.
May 21
Armenian parliamentary deputy Vartkes visits Police Commissioner Osman Bedri to protest the arrests of the Constantinople Armenian community leaders.
May 22
Turkish refugees are settled in the emptied Armenian villages of the Tortum District of Erzerum Province.
May 24
A note is sent by the Allied Powers to the Turkish Cabinet holding it responsible for the massacres of the Armenians.
May 25
Armenian parliamentary deputies Zohrab and Vartkes are arrested in Constantinople and later murdered while in custody in Kara-Kopru.
May 27
German Marshal Otto Liman von Sanders reports that the deportations were planned by the Committee of Union and Progress, and received the approval of all the ministries, and that the execution of the plans was placed in the hands of the governors-general, their subordinates, and the police.
May 27
The promulgation of the Temporary Law of Deportation, months after the depopulation of the Armenian settlements had been initiated.
May 27
2,000 Armenians are deported from Marash.
Waarom wordt er geen melding gemaakt van alle andere slachtingen van Turken en Koerden?
Waarom wordt er op deze Wikipedia pagina geen melding gemaakt van Turken en Koerden die door Armeniers zijn afgeslacht?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
Labor battalions, February 25
Further information: Labour battalions
On February 25, 1915, The War minister Enver Pasha sent an order to all military units that Armenians in the active Ottoman forces be demobilized and assigned to the unarmed Labour battalion (Turkish: amele taburlari). Enver Pasha explained this decision as "out of fear that they would collaborate with the Russians". As a tradition, the Ottoman Army drafted non-Muslim males only between the ages of 20 and 45 into the regular army. The younger (15–20) and older (45–60) non-Muslim soldiers had always been used as logistical support through the labor battalions. Before February, some of the Armenian recruits were utilized as laborers (hamals), though they would ultimately be executed.[45]
Transferring Armenian conscripts from active field (armed) to passive, unarmed logistic section was an important aspect of the subsequent genocide. As reported in "The Memoirs of Naim Bey", the extermination of the Armenians in these battalions was part of a premeditated strategy on behalf of the Committee of Union and Progress. Many of these Armenian recruits were executed by local Turkish gangs.[46]
Events at Van, April 1915
Further information: Van Resistance
Armed Armenian civilians and self-defense units holding a line against Turkish forces in the walled Van Resistance in May 1915.
On April 19, 1915, Jevdet Bey demanded that the city of Van immediately furnish him 4,000 soldiers under the pretext of conscription. However, it was clear to the Armenian population that his goal was to massacre the able-bodied men of Van so that there would be no defenders.[47] Jevdet Bey had already used his official writ in nearby villages, ostensibly to search for arms, which had turned into wholesale massacres.[47] The Armenians offered five hundred soldiers and to pay exemption money for the rest in order to buy time, however, Djevdet accused Armenians of "rebellion," and spoke of his determination to "crush" it at any cost. "If the rebels fire a single shot," he declared, "I shall kill every Christian man, woman, and" (pointing to his knee) "every child, up to here."[48]
On April 20, 1915, the armed conflict of the Van Resistance began when an Armenian woman was harassed, and the two Armenian men that came to her aid were killed by Turkish soldiers. The Armenian defenders protected 30,000 residents and 15,000 refugees in an area of roughly one square kilometer of the Armenian Quarter and suburb of Aigestan with 1,500 able bodied riflemen who were supplied with 300 rifles and 1,000 pistols and antique weapons. The conflict lasted until General Yudenich came to rescue them.[49]
Similar reports reached Morgenthau from Aleppo and Van, prompting him to raise the issue in person with Talaat and Enver. As he quoted to them the testimonies of his consulate officials, they justified the deportations as necessary to the conduct of the war, suggesting that complicity of the Armenians of Van with the Russian forces that had taken the city justified the persecution of all ethnic Armenians.
Arrest and deportation of Armenian notables, April 1915
Further information: Armenian notables deported from the Ottoman capital in 1915
Armenian intellectuals who were arrested and later executed en masse by Ottoman authorities on the night of April 24, 1915.
On April 24, 1915, the Red Sunday (Armenian: Կարմիր Կիրակի), was the night which the leaders of Armenians of the Ottoman capital, Constantinopole, and later extending to other Ottoman centers were arrested and moved to two holding centers near Ankara by then minister of interior Mehmed Talat Bey with his order on April 24, 1915. These Armenians later deported with the passage of Tehcir Law on 29 May 1915. The date 24 April, Genocide Remembrance Day, commemorates the Armenian notables deported from the Ottoman capital in 1915, as the precursor to the ensuing events.
Interior Minister Talat Pasha, who ordered the arrests.
In his order, order on April 24, 1915, Talat claimed "have long been pursuing to gain an administrative autonomy and this desire is displayed once more, in no uncertain terms, with the inclusion of the Russian Armenians who have assumed a position against us together with the Daschnak Committee in no time in the regions of Zeytûn (Zeitun Resistance (1915)), Bitlis, Sivas, and Van (Van Resistance) in accordance with the decisions they have previously taken (Armenian congress at Erzurum)." By 1914, Ottoman authorities had already begun a propaganda drive to present Armenians living in the Ottoman Empire as a threat to the empire's security. An Ottoman naval officer in the War Office described the planning:
In order to justify this enormous crime the requisite propaganda material was thoroughly prepared in Constantinople. [It included such statements as] "the Armenians are in league with the enemy. They will launch an uprising in Istanbul, kill off the Committee of Union and Progress leaders and will succeed in opening the straits (of the Dardanelles)."[50]
On the night of April 24, 1915, the Ottoman government rounded-up and imprisoned an estimated 250 Armenian intellectuals and community leaders.[51] This date coincided with Allied troop landings at Gallipoli after unsuccessful Allied naval attempts to break through the Dardanelles to Constantinople in February and March 1915.
Triple Entente's reaction, May 24
On May 24, 1915, the Triple Entente warned the Ottoman Empire that "In view of these new crimes of Turkey against humanity and civilization, the Allied Governments announce publicly to the Sublime Porte that they will hold personally responsible for these crimes all members of the Ottoman Government, as well as those of their agents who are implicated in such massacres."[52]
Massacres
Mass Burnings
Eitan Belkind was a Nili member, who infiltrated the Ottoman army as an official. He was assigned to the headquarters of Camal Pasha. He claims to have witnessed the burning of 5,000 Armenians.[53]
Lt. Hasan Maruf, of the Ottoman army, describes how a population of a village were taken all together, and then burned.[54] The Commander of the Third Army Vehib's 12-page affidavit, which was dated 5 December 1918, was presented in the Trabzon trial series (March 29, 1919) included in the Key Indictment,[55] reporting such a mass burning of the population of an entire village near Mush.[56] that in Bitlis, Mus and Sassoun, "The shortest method for disposing of the women and children concentrated in the various camps was to burn them." And also that, "Turkish prisoners who had apparently witnessed some of these scenes were horrified and maddened at the remembering the sight. They told the Russians that the stench of the burning human flesh permeated the air for many days after."
Suffocation
Trabzon was the main city in Trabzon province; Oscar S. Heizer, the American consul at Trabzon, reports: "This plan did not suit Nail Bey.... Many of the children were loaded into boats and taken out to sea and thrown overboard."[57] The Italian consul of Trabzon in 1915, Giacomo Gorrini, writes: "I saw thousands of innocent women and children placed on boats which were capsized in the Black Sea."[58] The Trabzon trials reported Armenians having been drowned in the Black Sea.[59]
Hoffman Philip, the American Charge at Constantinople chargé d'affaires, writes: "Boat loads sent from Zor down the river arrived at Ana, one thirty miles away, with three fifths of passengers missing."[60]
Use of poison/overdose
The psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton writes in a parenthesis when introducing the crimes of Nazi doctors, "Perhaps Turkish doctors, in their participation in the genocide against the Armenians, come closest, as I shall later suggest." [61]
Morphine overdose; During the Trabzon trial series of the Martial court, from the sittings between March 26 and May 17, 1919, the Trabzons Health Services Inspector Dr. Ziya Fuad wrote in a report that Dr. Saib caused the death of children with the injection of morphine. The information was allegedly provided by two physicians (Drs. Ragib and Vehib), both Dr. Saib's colleagues at Trabzons Red Crescent hospital, where those atrocities were said to have been committed.[62][63]
Toxic gas; Dr. Ziya Fuad and Dr. Adnan, public health services director of Trabzon, submitted affidavits reporting cases in which two school buildings were used to organize children and send them to the mezzanine to kill them with toxic gas equipment.[64][65]
Typhoid inoculation; The Ottoman surgeon, Dr. Haydar Cemal wrote "on the order of the Chief Sanitation Office of the IIIrd Army in January 1916, when the spread of typhus was an acute problem, innocent Armenians slated for deportation at Erzican were inoculated with the blood of typhoid fever patients without rendering that blood ‘inactive’."[66][67] Jeremy Hugh Baron writes: "Individual doctors were directly involved in the massacres, having poisoned infants, killed children and issued false certificates of death from natural causes. Nazim's brother-in-law Dr. Tevfik Rushdu, Inspector-General of Health Services, organized the disposal of Armenian corpses with thousands of kilos of lime over six months; he became foreign secretary from 1925 to 1938."[68]
In May 1915, Mehmed Talat Pasha requested that the cabinet and Grand Vizier Said Halim Pasha legalize a measure for relocation and settlement of Armenians to other places due to what Talat Pasha called "the Armenian riots and massacres, which had arisen in a number of places in the country." However, Talat Pasha was referring specifically to events in Van and extending the implementation to the regions in which alleged "riots and massacres" would affect the security of the war zone of the Caucasus Campaign. Later, the scope of the immigration was widened in order to include the Armenians in the other provinces.
On 29 May 1915, the CUP Central Committee passed the Temporary Law of Deportation ("Tehjir Law"), giving the Ottoman government and military authorization to deport anyone it "sensed" as a threat to national security.[70] The "Tehjir Law" brought some measures regarding the property of the deportees, but during September a new law was proposed. By means of the "Abandoned Properties" Law (Law Concerning Property, Dept's and Assets Left Behind Deported Persons, also referred as the "Temporary Law on Expropriation and Confiscation"), the Ottoman government took possession of all "abandoned" Armenian goods and properties. Ottoman parliamentary representative Ahmed Riza protested this legislation:
It is unlawful to designate the Armenian assets as “abandoned goods” for the Armenians, the proprietors, did not abandon their properties voluntarily; they were forcibly, compulsorily removed from their domiciles and exiled. Now the government through its efforts is selling their goods...If we are a constitutional regime functioning in accordance with constitutional law we can’t do this. This is atrocious. Grab my arm, eject me from my village, then sell my goods and properties, such a thing can never be permissible. Neither the conscience of the Ottomans nor the law can allow it.[71]
On 13 September 1915, the Ottoman parliament passed the "Temporary Law of Expropriation and Confiscation", stating that all property, including land, livestock, and homes belonging to Armenians, was to be confiscated by the authorities.[72]
With the implementation of Tehcir law, the confiscation of Armenian property and the slaughter of Armenians that ensued upon the law's enactment outraged much of the western world. While the Ottoman Empire's wartime allies offered little protest, a wealth of German and Austrian historical documents has since come to attest to the witnesses' horror at the killings and mass starvation of Armenians.[73][74][75] In the United States, The New York Times reported almost daily on the mass murder of the Armenian people, describing the process as "systematic", "authorized" and "organized by the government." Theodore Roosevelt would later characterize this as "the greatest crime of the war."[76]
Death Marches
An Armenian woman kneeling beside dead child in field "within sight of help and safety at Aleppo."
The Armenians were marched out to the Syrian town of Deir ez-Zor and the surrounding desert. A good deal of evidence suggests that the Ottoman government did not provide any facilities or supplies to sustain the Armenians during their deportation, nor when they arrived.[77] By August 1915, The New York Times repeated an unattributed report that "the roads and the Euphrates are strewn with corpses of exiles, and those who survive are doomed to certain death. It is a plan to exterminate the whole Armenian people."[78]
Ottoman troops escorting the Armenians not only allowed others to rob, kill, and rape the Armenians, but often participated in these activities themselves.[77] Deprived of their belongings and marched into the desert, hundreds of thousands of Armenians perished.
Naturally, the death rate from starvation and sickness is very high and is increased by the brutal treatment of the authorities, whose bearing toward the exiles as they are being driven back and forth over the desert is not unlike that of slave drivers. With few exceptions no shelter of any kind is provided and the people coming from a cold climate are left under the scorching desert sun without food and water. Temporary relief can only be obtained by the few able to pay officials.[77]
Similarly, Major General Friedrich Freiherr Kress von Kressenstein noted that "The Turkish policy of causing starvation is an all too obvious proof... for the Turkish resolve to destroy the Armenians."[79]
German engineers and laborers involved in building the railway also witnessed Armenians being crammed into cattle cars and shipped along the railroad line. Franz Gunther, a representative for Deutsche Bank which was funding the construction of the Baghdad Railway, forwarded photographs to his directors and expressed his frustration at having to remain silent amid such "bestial cruelty".[80] Major General Otto von Lossow, acting military attaché and head of the German Military Plenipotentiary in the Ottoman Empire, spoke to Ottoman intentions in a conference held in Batum in 1918:
The Turks have embarked upon the "total extermination of the Armenians in Transcaucasia... The aim of Turkish policy is, as I have reiterated, the taking of possession of Armenian districts and the extermination of the Armenians. Talaat's government wants to destroy all Armenians, not just in Turkey but also outside Turkey. On the basis of all the reports and news coming to me here in Tiflis there hardly can be any doubt that the Turks systematically are aiming at the extermination of the few hundred thousand Armenians whom they left alive until now.[81]
Extermination Camps
The Armenians were driven south toward the deserts of Syria, with only what they could carry.
It is believed that 25 major concentration camps existed, under the command of Şükrü Kaya, one of the right hand-men of Talat Pasha.[82] The majority of the camps were situated near Turkey's modern Iraqi and Syrian borders, and some were only temporary transit camps.[82] Others, such as Radjo, Katma, and Azaz, are said to have been used only temporarily, for mass graves; these sites were vacated by autumn 1915.[82] Some authors also maintain that the camps Lale, Tefridje, Dipsi, Del-El, and Ra's al-'Ain were built specifically for those who had a life expectancy of a few days.[82]
Relief
Fundraising poster for the American Committee for Relief in the Near East - the United States contributed a significant amount of aid to help Armenians during the Armenian Genocide.
See also: American Committee for Relief in the Near East
American Committee for Relief in the Near East is a relief organization established in 1915, just after the deportations, primary aim was to alleviate the suffering of the Armenian people. Henry Morgenthau played a key role in rallying support for the organization. Between 1915 and 1930, distributed humanitarian relief across a wide range of geographical locations. ACRNE eventually spent over ten times of initial estimate, see original estimate, that amount and helped an estimated close to 2,000,000 refugees[83]
In its first year, the ACRNE cared for 132,000 Armenian orphans from Tiflis and Yerevan Constantinople, Beirut, Damascus, and Jerusalem, Sivas. A relief organization for refugees in the Middle East helped donate over $102 million (budget $117,000,000) [1930 value of dollar] to Armenians both during and after the war.[84][85]
Teşkilat-i Mahsusa
Main article: Teşkilat-i Mahsusa
The Committee of Union and Progress founded a "special organization" (Turkish: Teşkilat-i Mahsusa) that participated in the destruction of the Ottoman Armenian community.[86]This organization adopted its name in 1913 and functioned like a special forces outfit, and it has been compared by some scholars to the Nazi Einsatzgruppen.[87] Later in 1914, the Ottoman government influenced the direction the special organization was to take by releasing criminals from central prisons to be the central elements of this newly formed special organization.[88] According to the Mazhar commissions attached to the tribunal as soon as November 1914, 124 criminals were released from Pimian prison. Little by little from the end of 1914 to the beginning of 1915, hundreds, then thousands of prisoners were freed to form the members of this organization. Later, they were charged to escort the convoys of Armenian deportees.[89] Vehib Pasha, commander of the Ottoman Third Army, called those members of the special organization, the “butchers of the human species.”[90]
Conclusie:
Officiele verhaal Armeniers:
Turken hebben Armeniers massaal gedeporteerd en afgeslacht en er was geen sprake van een Armeense opstand
Kunnen we met zijn allen vaststellen dat het officiele Armeense verhaal onzin is?
Officiele verhaal Armeniers:
Turken hebben Armeniers massaal gedeporteerd en afgeslacht en er was geen sprake van een Armeense opstand
Kunnen we met zijn allen vaststellen dat het officiele Armeense verhaal onzin is?
De chronology volgens een andere website:
http://www.littlearmenia.com/html/genocide/genocide_timeline.asp
Weer vind je helemaal niets over Turken en Koerden die afgeslacht worden door Armeniers.
1875
December 1
By order of the Turkish government, the Armenian market district at Van is destroyed by fire with great loss to Armenian property, goods, and businesses.
1878 Russia victorious in Russo-Turkish War of 1877-1878. Russo-Turkish Treaty of San Stefano (February 19, 1878) provides for protection and reforms for Armenians. Great Britain negotiates a secret Cyprus Convention with Turkey (June 1978) to allow British to establish bases on Cyprus and to administer Cyprus. In return, Britain insists Russo-Turkish issues be decided, instead, by an international conference. The resulting Congress of Berlin (June 1978) replaces the protective measures of San Stefano under Article 16 with unsatisfactory and ineffective provisions for Armenian people under Article 61, and returns Garin (Erzerum) to Turkey. Russia retains Kars and Ardahan.
1879
Armenian performances are forbidden in Constantinople. The urban Armenian population of Garin and Arabkir come out against the government.
1880
August
By special order of the Turkish government, the word "Armenia" is forbidden for use in official documents.
1884
June
Armenians "rebel" in Zeitun against oppressive Turkish taxes.
1886
The Turkish government divides Western Armenia administratively into separate vilayets of Erzerum, Garin, Kharput, Diarbekir, Dersim, Bitlis (Baghesh), Van, Hekyari and Sivas (Sebastia).
1888
The Turkish government orders that all Armenian periodicals and magazines in Constantinople and Western Armenia be discontinued.
1890
June 15
An Armenian demonstration in the district of Gum-Gapu in Constantinople is drowned in Armenian blood.
1890
June 18-20
Alleging provocative actions by Armenians, Turkish armed forces and Turkish mobs attack Armenians in Garin (Erzerum). Hundreds of Armenians are killed.
1891
January
The Armenians of Vardenis in Taron are robbed by Turks and their village is destroyed.
1893
Sultan Abdul Hamid II, known as the Bloody Sultan, suspends the Armenian National Constitution, and also discontinues the national parliament in Constantinople, which includes some Armenian representatives.
1894
August 20-27
Sassun’s Gelie-guzan village massacre, known as the "Gelie-guzan Hole Carnage" takes place. Here, Turks inaugurate the system of slaughtering unarmed people, which later was the prototype for Hitler’s concentration camps.
1894
August 25-30
Sassun’s Gebin Mount carnage is inflicted when the Turkish army manages to force Armenian women, children and old men to leave Andok for the forest on the bottom of mountain. The army ignites the forest and burns the Armenians alive. Note: This is a harbinger of the extermination of future victims by burning them alive in stables and other large storage facilities.
1894
August
10,000 Armenians are killed and 74 Armenian villages are destroyed in Sassun.
1894
August-October
Armenians refuse to pay illegal taxes to Kurdish irregular forces in Sassun. Unrest in the vilayet of Bitlis, near Mush. Revolt in Sassun. Attempted uprising against Kurdish oppression is followed by massacres in Sassun. A joint report published on July 28, 1895 by the Commission of Inquiry created by the initiative of the Great Powers, estimates the number of victims at 5,000.
1895
May 11
Governments of six countries present the Turkish Sultan Abdul Hamid II a special note describing the disastrous conditions of Armenia and demand the Turkish government to carry out improvements.
1895
August
Joint memorandum presented by Britain, France and Russia to the Sultan, pointing out the disastrous situation in the Armenian provinces and urging him to proceed with the reforms. The Imperial Turkish Government replies in August 1895 and promises to carry out the reforms specified in Article 61 of the Treaty of Berlin (1978).
1895
September 30
Carnage of Armenians in Baberd at the hands of the Turks.
1895
September 30, October
In the Bab Ali section of Constantinople, Armenians carry out a peaceful demonstration. The Turks set upon killing Armenians. 2000 Armenians die. Protests by the Great Powers by joint note from three ambassadors (French, British and Russian) on October 13-15 demand reforms. On October 31 a decree is issued, providing for reforms.
1895
October 5
Mass obliteration of Armenians takes place in Trebizond and its villages. Armenians of Sassun share the same fate.
1895
October 7
Armenians of Derjan province are slaughtered by the Turks.
1895
October 8
Massacres of Armenians by Turks begin in the vilayet of Trebizond as confirmed by the report of Gillieres, the French Consul in Trebizond.
1895
October 9
The carnage of Armenians at Erzingan and Kamakh by the Turks.
1895
October 10
In Kghi province more than 1000 Armenians are killed, and dozens of villages destroyed. In Bitlis, 102 villages are destroyed. On the same day the carnage of Armenians at Charsanjak and in its villages begins, taking almost 700 lives. In Balu, the body count of Armenian victims reaches 1200, Arabkir – 2800, Torgom – 500
1895
October 13
Most of the Armenians in Baghesh are killed by the Turks.
1895
October 16
Urfa in Yedesia is attacked and in spite of persistent defense, the Turkish army and the Turkish mob succeed in slaying around 10,000 Armenians. On the same day, the Turks inflict similiar carnage in Shapin-Garahisar. 2000 Armenians are slain in the town and 3000 in 30 villages.
1895
October 21
The Armenian population in Erzingan, a town of Erzerum vilayet, is slaughtered by the Turks. 1000 Armenians are killed.
1895
October 23
3000 Armenians of Malatia are killed. 1000 houses are burned.
1895
October 25
Massacres follow in Bitlis, in the vilayet of Bitlis.
1895
October 26
Almost the entire Armenian population of Kharput is slaughtered by the Turks. The body count exceeds 4000. Mass massacres take place in Bayburd, vilayet of Erzerum. 165 villages are destroyed.
1895
October 27-28
Massacres in Urfa, vilayet of Aleppo, the first by the Hamidie Kurdish regiments organized by the Turks for this purpose, confirmed by the report of the British consul, Fitzmaurice, dated March 16, 1896.
1895
October 30
Massacres in Erzerum, vilayet of Erzerum. 400 killed by the Turkish mob and soldiers.
1895
October 31
Massacres occur in Garin and in the vilayet of Erzerum. Around 2000 Armenians are killed; 43 villages are destroyed.
1895
October Organized massacres of Armenians by Turks in Constantinople and Trebizond.
1895
November 1
Diarbekir carnage begins. 1000 Armenians are killed in the town and 30,000 more in the villages. 119 villages are destroyed. Massacres in Arabkir, vilayet of Kharput. 2,800 dead. Massacres in Diarbekir, vilayet of Diarbekir. Confirmed by a telegram of Meyrier, the French consul in Diarbekir, sent on November 3 to P. Cambon, the French ambassador in Constantinople. He estimates incorrectly: 5000 dead. 119 villages are pillaged and set on fire.
1895
November 3
Almost the whole Armenian population in Marzvan, around 700 people, are killed by the Turks.
1895
November 4
3,800 killed in the vilayet of Kharput by the Turks.
1895
November 10
Systematic Turkish army attacks on Van take place. The city of Van, in the vilayet of Van, is attacked by the Turkish Hamidie forces. Forced conversions to Islam in Kharput, vilayet of Kharput.
1895
November 11
Turkish army attacks the town of Balu, in the vilayet of Kharput. It results in 1680 Armenian deaths. Turkey proclaims a holy war (Djihad).
1895
November 12
Turks kill 1,500 Armenians in the vilayet of Sivas, and an equal number in Gurun.
1895
November 15-17
Armies of Sultan destroy Aintab in the vilayet of Aleppo and kill 1500 Armenians.
1895
November 18
Massacres in Marash, vilayet of Aleppo. 1,000 Armenians are killed.
1895
November 18-20
160 villages around the city of Van are robbed and pillaged.
1895
November 28
In Zklus, 200 Armenians are killed; in Amasia, 100; and in Aleppo, 1000.
1895
December
Armenians of the villages of Norduz, Hayots Dzor, Gavash and Karchevan in the vilayet of Bitlis are set upon by fire and sword. 100 villages are destroyed. On December 28 in the town of Ourfa (Yedesia), 8000 Armenians are slaughtered. 100 villages around Mush, vilayet of Bitlis, are destroyed.
1895
December 28
A battalion of Turkish-led Hamidie forces, proceeding from Aleppo, encircles the town of Urfa. Massacres on the following day kill 8,000 Armenians. This is confirmed by the above-mentioned report of the British consul, Fitzmaurice, dated March 16, 1896, as well as by the French consul.
Global Estimates
Most of the figures mentioned through 1895 come to a total of 150,000 to 300,000 dead, to which must be added some 150,000 forced conversions and some 100,000 emigrants forced to flee. The report written by the agents of the European Powers estimate 28,000 killed just in the localities where representatives of foreign nations were present.
1896
June 8-15
The population of Van and nearby villages is destroyed. The major Armenian population of Sgherdi is decimated and survivors are forcibly converted to Islam. In 40 villages of Khizan, 400 people, and in 20 villages of Mamrzank 160 people are slain, and the others are converted to Islam forcibly. All Armenian villages of Shatakh are devastated and turned to ruins. 11 villages of Gyumushkhane are destroyed and most of their population slain.
1896
Middle of June
Turks break their vow and near St. Bartholemew Church, attack Armenians in Van seeking to defend themselves, murdering 1500 people. The survivors flee to Persia.
1896
August 26
A group of Armenian militants of the Dashnak Party occupies the Ottoman Bank in Constantinople in order to gain the attention of foreign powers to the oppression of the Armenians. Achieving their purpose, they leave the bank in the evening and are picked up by boat and taken to France. Much attention is aroused in the Western capitals. However, this action results in a massacre in Constantinople, on August 27, killing approximately 7,000 Armenian victims.
1896
August 28
Representatives of the Great Powers send a telegram of protest to the Ottoman authorities.
1896
September 2
Armenian population of Agn is destroyed. Half the houses in the city are burned. Joint verbal note of protest issued by the Great Powers, accusing the Sublime Porte directly.
1896
September 3
In the city of Mush and its villages, 250 Armenians are killed by the Turks.
1896
November 10
In Agn’s Binkaya village, 250 Armenians are killed. Of the 250 houses there, only 12 houses remain standing.
1894-1896
300,000 Armenians become the victims of the carnages inflicted by the Turks. In addition, almost as many flee the country.
1900
August
Mothers and children are cut down by sword in Sassun’s Spaghanak villages by sudden attacks late at night.
1904
May
7500 Armenians are slain in Sassun by the Turks.
1908
April 14
Violent outbreaks in Adana (in Cilicia) and in near-by towns, in an attempted counter-revolution by Turks supporting the Sultan. They are soon squelched.
1908
July
Military coup in Salonica by the Young Turk movement (the Union and Progress Party). There begins a brief period of collaboration among Turks, Armenians and other minorities. The subsequent massacres in Adana do not shake this new-found cooperation.
1908
July 24
The Ottoman Constitution is proclaimed.
1909
April 15-25
30,000 Armenians are slaughtered in Adana, Tarsus and other towns of Cilicia. The Turkish army bears direct responsibility, but the Armenian community is willing to consider it as an isolated incident, and to continue to trust the Young Turks until further events prove otherwise.
1913
January 29
In Turkey, the triumvirate of Enver, Talaat and Jemal Pasha heads the government.
1914
February 8
Under the combined influence of Russia and Great Britain, the Turkish authorities sign the Armenian Reform Project and agree to take certain measures in favor of the Armenian population.The Dutch, Westemeck, and the Norwegian, Hoft, are appointed as General Inspectors of the Armenian provinces, but they are rendered ineffective. The promised measures are not implemented.
1914- beginning of 1915
The Armenian Patriarchate in Constantinople estimates the Armenian population in Turkey at 2,100,000. World War I begins July 1914. Loyally, the Armenians participate in the war effort. Mobilization of the entire population, including Armenians, is decreed and the Armenians of Turkey take part in the war on the Caucasian and Western fronts. Immediately preceding the war, the Armenian population is neutral because a number of Armenians in Russia is mobilized on the Russian side, and a natural desire to avoid a fratricidal war. Some Armenian presence in the Russian Army will become an argument used by the Turkish authorities in their attempt to justify the measures they took later to destroy the Armenian people.
1915
January
Enver is disastrously defeated in Sarikamish at the hands of Russian troops, marking a failure of his Pan-Turanian plans. The Turkish authorities decree the demobilization and disarmament of the Armenians. The Armenians are grouped into small work battalions used for garbage details and similar tasks. The Armenian soldiers in the Turkish army, under the pretext of work details, are marched and killed in cold blood or used for target practice.
1915
January 13
A.F. Kerensky, a member of the National Council of Russia and later briefly to be the leader of Russia, in a report, describes the astounding plight of Armenian refugees. He declares that when the Turkish attacks on Russian territory began, rivers of Armenian refugees stretched to the North… "That was not an escape, it was the great demise of a whole nation".
1915
February 13
Two Armenian deputies of the Ottoman Assembly submit a note concerning the massacres and executions of several such battalions.
1915
February 26 War Minister Enver convenes 75 top ranking Ittihadists. This secret meeting finalizes the details of the plan to carry out a genocide of the Armenians. Evidence indicates that the decision to carry out the Genocide was made some years earlier.
1915
April 8
The process of removing the Armenian population of Zeitun commences. Taking advantage of the defense staged by a group of young Armenians, the Turkish army invades Zeitun, with the assistance of local Turks, to re-establish control. The mass deportation and massacres of Armenian inhabitants of the entire region is immediately organized. This mountainous region had always preserved a quasi-autonomy.
1915
April 15
Talaat, Enver and Nazem send a secret order to the local governments for the removal and extermination of Armenians in Turkey.
1915
April 15-18
While the Armenian population of Van is fleeing to Russia because of the evacuation of the Russian army, the Turkish forces attack villages of the vilayet. They destroy 80 villages and slay 24,000 Armenians in the vilayet and city of Van. The Turks accuse the Armenians of collaboration with the Russian troops.
1915
April 20
At the news of the massacres, the mostly Armenian population of Van takes to the barricades. The Turkish authorities will also use this incident on the Caucasian front and the resistance of the Armenians as a pretext to justify the measures of deportation (and massacre) they are about to inflict.
1915
April 20- May 19
The remaining Armenians of Van try to defend themselves from the overwhelming Turkish forces.
1915
April 24
800 Armenian leaders, writers and intellectuals are arrested in Constantinople and murdered. The barbaric Armenian genocide begins. This is a most important date for all Armenians today. It represents the date for commemorating the Armenian Genocide each year throughout the world.
1915
April 27-30
The forced removal and deportation of Dyurt Yol’s Armenian population begins.
1915
May 15
Turkish forces begin the process of removal and deportation of the Armenian population from villages in the vilayet of Erzerum.
1915
May 16
Law of May 16, 1915 is enacted with "instructions pertaining to property and real estate abandoned by the deported Armenians, consequences of the war and unusual political circumstances". This law provides for the installation of Turkish refugees in the homes and on the lands belonging to the Armenians.
1915
May 24
The governments of England, France and Russia jointly warn the Turkish government publicly that "They will hold personally responsible... all members of the Ottoman government and those of their agents who are implicated in such massacres". This is the first time in the international arena three large countries publicly characterize the Turkish actions against Armenians as crimes against "humanity and civilization" for which "personal responsibility is laid on every member of the Turkish government who participated in the carnages". The communique of the Allied Powers of the Entente, published by the Havas news agency, accuses the Ottoman Turkish government directly for the massacres against the Armenian population.
1915
May 27
The law of May 27, 1915 is enacted concerning the "displacement of suspected persons." This law empowers army officers to relocate populations upon the simple suspicion of treason or for military reasons.
1915
June 1
12,000 Armenian soldiers in the Turkish army are massacred in Balu, vilayet of Diarbekir.
1915
June 10 A supplementary law is enacted regarding reporting property of deportees. See entry under September 26 as to supplementary law adopted September 26, 1915.
1915
June 12 – July 3
Turkish armies slay or remove Armenians of Shapin Garahisar, who tried to defend themselves.
1915
June 15
21 leaders of the Hnchukyan Party are hanged publicly in Constantinople.
1915
June 24
Massacres and deportations of the inhabitants of Shabin Karahissar begin.
1915
June 25
The removal and deportation of the Armenians of the city of Sivas begin.
1915
June 26
The removal of the Armenian population of Kharput and Trebizond vilayets are commenced by the Turkish army. Photocopy of the original deportation order (written in old Turkish with Arabic characters) is to be found in the Archives of the United States State Department in Washington, DC.
1915
June 27
Mass removals and deportations of Armenians begin in Samsun.
1915
July 1
Assyrians and Armenians are deported from Medzpin (Nisibe), Tel-Ermen (Hill of the Armenians), Bitlis, vilayet of Bitlis, Mardin and surrounding regions.
1915
July 3
The massacre begins of the Armenian population of Mush, Sassun and Bitlis vilayets begins.
1915
July 10
The Armenian population of Malatia is deported.
1915
July 13
Self-defense of Musa mountain begins. The heroic band of Armenians is later vividly depicted in the best-selling novel "Forty Days of Musa Dagh" by Franz Werfel.
1915
July 27
The Armenian population of Cilicia and Antioch is deported.
1915
July 28
The removal of the Armenian population of the Cilician cities, Aintab and Qilise, is carried out. In Great Britain's House of Lords, in answer to Viscount James Bryce’s question concerning the slaughter of Christians in Armenia, the president of the Military Council, Lord Grew declares that the information received by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs shows that the Turkish crimes are increasing both in numbers and in violence. Lord Grew declares that "all those mass carnages and violent removals are engaged under the pretext of forced transmigration".
1915
July 29 Deportations begin from Aintab and Kilisse, in Cilicia.
1915
July 30
Deportations begin from Suedia, in Cilicia.
1915
August 16
Deportations begin from Marash in Cilicia and Konia in western Asia Minor.
1915
August 10- 19
Removal and deportations begin of Armenians from Smyrna (Nikodemia), Brusa, Bartizak, Adabazar and surrounding areas.
1915
August 19
Removal and deportation begin of Armenian population of Urfa in Yedesia.
1915
September 15
Turkey’s Minister of Interior, Talaat Pasha, cables to the Aleppo Prefecture the confirmation of the previously transmitted order for removal of Armenians and their final elimination. The original of this cable is reproduced in the book of A. Andonian "The Memoirs of Naim Bey (The Genocide of the Armenians by the Turks). With a New Preface by the Armenian Historical Association", Documentary Series, Vol. I, Great Britain, Reprint 1964, 83 pp. Exhibit No. 3 at the trial of Soghomon Tehlirian, authenticated by the German Court. (At a trial before a Berlin court in 1921, following the assassination of Talaat by Tehlirian, Tehlirian was acquitted by the Court because of the circumstances.)
1915
September 15
Rashid, Governor of Diarbekir, sends cable to Talaat, the Minister of the Interior, announcing that the number of Armenians "expelled" from Diarbekir has reached 120,000.
1915
September 26
"Provisional law concerning the property, debts and receivables of persons relocated elsewhere" is adopted. This law provides for the liquidation of debts and receivables of displaced persons (Armenians). A special commission is "charged" with holding the proceeds of sales in escrow. The German Foreign Office summarized this law as compressed to provide "1. All goods of the Armenians are confiscated. 2. The governments will cash in the credits of the deportees and will repay (will not repay) their debts".
1915
September 30 and October 7
In Bern, Switzerland, at its Central Hall, public meetings are held deploring the ongoing Armenian tragedy.
1915
October
110 famous German and Italian civilians in Switzerland, including scientists, journalists and public figures publish "The Call" both in French and German, in defense of the Armenian people.
Note As in Switzerland, in many other places all over the world, there were many, many public meetings of protest and countless public statements by various heads of state and other officials condemning the Turkish massacres and deportations of the Armenians, threatening the Turks responsible with appropriate punishment and promising justice and territorial and/or monetary restitution for the Armenians. The statements and meetings referred to in this chronology are but a tiny sample.
1915
October 6
In Great Britain’s House of Lords, Lord James Bryce denounces the Turkish murderous campaign against the Armenians. He declares the time has passed when any harm could be caused by public statements and the more complete the statements, the more good it may bring, because it remains the only chance of preventing these carnages from continuing, if they are not over yet. It is a pity, he says, that his information from several sources indicates that the number of victims is very large. It is considered to be 800,000 as of then. He states that there is no commandment in Islam that can justify such slaughters. He urges every effort be made to send help for the poor, wretched survivors, hundreds of which are dying of starvation and disease. "That is all that we can do now in England and let us do it and do it swiftly".
1915
October 12
In Great Britain’s House of Commons, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Edward Grey declares "All the information concerning the carnages of Armenians in Turkey became public. Only two feelings can describe it – horror and disturbance."
1915
November 16
As the government spokesman for questions from members of the House of Commons, Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lord R. Cecil declares that Turkey intended not to punish the Armenian race, but to destroy it. That was the only goal.
1915
November 18
In Paris at the "American Club", a public meeting urges help to alleviate the Armenian suffering.
1915
December 12
Talaat, Minister of the Interior, sends a telegram to the Prefecture of Aleppo. He states that in view of the rather compassionate attitude of certain valis with respect to orphans, the order is given that the orphans be sent away with the caravans, with the exception of the very young ones unable to remember the atrocities. The original cable is reproduced in said Andonian's book "The Memoirs of Naim Bey (The Genocide of the Armenians by the Turks)".
1916
January 11
In Germany’s Reichstag, deputy Karl Libknecht, an international socialist figure, directs a question to the Vice Chancellor, as to whether he is aware that in Turkey, their ally, thousands of Armenian citizens have been removed from their homes and exterminated. He demands that the German government forbid the Turks from further terrifying actions against the remaining Armenian population.
1916
February 9
The United States Senate votes (with the concurrence of the House of Representatives) to ask the President of the United States of America to set a special day when citizens of this country can help Armenians with financial support, considering that many of them, being in the country that was at war, were forced to leave their houses and belongings without any opportunity to care even for their primal needs, are afflicted with hunger, disease and untold sufferings. President Wilson designates August 21 and August 22 for making contributions for the suffering Armenians.
1916
February 9
In the Russian Duma, Minister of Foreign Affairs S.D. Sazonov declares "I have mentioned before about the awful sufferings of that wretched race. Under the tacit assent of its ally, Germany, the Turks hoped to bring alive their desire to exterminate the entire Armenian race..."
1916
March 7
Talaat, Minister of the Interior, sends a cable to the Aleppo Prefecture, ordering the extermination of children at military installations.
1916
April 9
"Homage to Armenia" gathering takes place in Paris’ Sorbonne University, attracting thousands of people. Speaking at that gathering, France’s Minister of Education declares that "For more than a year carnages paint Armenia red in blood and have surpassed other crimes in scale and in violence. Germany can be proud of its horrid deeds". At the same program, the opening words of the president of the National Council of France, Paul Deshnanel, firmly condemns the slaughter of Armenians at the hands of the Turkish executioners.
1916
July 29
"France-Armenia" company is formed in Paris, members of which are ministers of the French government, senators, deputies, Georges Clemenceau, writer Anatole France and other dignitaries.
1916
August 19
Decree abolishes the national Armenian constitution of 1863, in violation of Article 61 of the Treaty of Berlin concerning religious freedom.
1916
November 16
In Berlin’s Missionary Union, Doctor Karl Accenfeld sends a statement to the German Chancellor Bettman-Holveg in which he asserts "In neutral countries large accusations are spreading against Germany about not only calmly watching, but also helping to realize the extinction of a whole Christian race". Note: In the bibliography in this web-site is listed a volume by Dadrian dealing with the German involvement.
1917
January 1
By a special decree/law the government of Turkey condemns the 1978 Treaty of Berlin and especially Article 61.
1917
March 29
In Stockholm, a large meeting takes place dedicated to repudiation of the mass murder of Armenians. The members of the meeting deplore the insensitivity of Sweden towards Armenians.
1917
November 6
In Great Britain’s House of Commons, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Arthur Balfour declares "Do we need to ignore that Armenia should be given back, as respected gentlemen wish to give it back with their formula, under the reign of Turkey. I don’t want to ruin the Turkish community – consisting of Turks, in Turkish fitting style, commanding the Turks. No, our constant goal is the emancipation of non-Turks from Turkish governance. What is imperialistic in wishing to see Poland independent, Armenia liberated from Turks, Alsace Lorraine rejoined to France, to see Italy having its own population, language, area and civilization".
1917
December 4
Speaking in the Congress of the United States, President Wilson states "We hope to provide the right and opportunity for people living in the Turkish Empire to make their lives safe and their fate secure from aggression and injustice, orders of foreign courts and parties.
1918
January 6
In the name of the "Germano - Armenian community", Paul Rorbach, Edward Kir and Martin Rade urge the government of Germany to promote autonomy for Armenia.
1918
January 8
President Wilson’s Declaration of Fourteen Points is published. The 12th Point extends promise to the Armenians of security of life and an unmolested opportunity for autonomous development.
1918
March
Treaty of Brest-Litovsk is signed between Russia and Turkey after Russia's withdrawal brought about by the Russian Revolution. Turkish invasion of Russian Armenia causes more killings of Armenians including those fleeing from Turkish Armenia. Fighting continues on the Caucasian front involving Armenian units.
1918
May 28
The Armenian National Council, of necessity to fill a vacuum, announces itself the supreme and only administrative body for the comparatively small remaining territory in what was Russian Armenia. Such words as "independence" or "republic" are intentionally avoided pending the outcome of a nearby battle with the invading Turkish forces (which the Armenians do win).
1918
June 4
In Batum, the Treaty of Peace and Friendship is signed between Ottoman Turkey and the Republic of Armenia, proclaiming, hollowly, peace and eternal friendship. It provided, among other terms, detailed provisions dealing with conduct at or near their common boundary.
1918
mid-October
United States Congressman Edward Little presents a resolution to the Congress advocating that the "Armenian people have the right to be free and independent, have an outlet to the sea and be the masters of the Christian culture for which their sons had been sacrificed".
1918
October 30
The armistice of Moudros ends the war between the Allies and Turkey. Global estimates of the campaign of extermination: close to 1,500,000 Armenians dead.
1918
November
Defeated Turkey recognizes the small Armenian Republic whose territory consists only of a small fraction of former Armenian lands. Turkey also cedes to it the vilayets of Kars and Ardahan the following year. This transfer proves to be only temporary.
1918
November 13
In Great Britain’s House of Lords, James Bryce, speaking about Armenia and Cilicia, severely criticizes the Turkish government. He states in part: "As Your Highness and Lords already know, the present Turkish government includes people that were involved in the astonishing carnages (that happened in 1915). Every respected Lord that wants to refresh his memory can read the Blue Book published by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1916, in which you’ll find the description of the awful massacres that are written in history everywhere, in spite of all the attempts not to allow or justify them. Not only is Talaat Pasha in the group of criminals that created the Union and Progress Committee, but also others who still are active in the present Turkish government must take the responsibility for those carnages".
1918
December 10
United States Senator Henry Cabot Lodge presented a proposal for the Senate to express the view that Armenia, including the six vilayets in Turkey and Cilicia should be independent and the peace conference should help Armenia to create an independent republic. While Lodge was very sympathetic to the Armenian cause, he later opposed the United States accepting a mandate of Armenia to avoid possible military involvement.
1919
January 8
By the order of Sultan Mahmed VI it was ordered that the First, Second and Third Military Tribunals prosecute criminally the leaders of the "Young Turks" and other implicated members of the government.
1919
April 8
A Military Tribunal finds a number of Turkish leaders guilty of carnages in the Yozkhat area. The Court finds that Kemal Bey ordered the Moslems of the area to eliminate all the Armenian population, and sentences him to death.
1919
April 27
In Constantinople, the trial begins of members of the Union and Progress Party, and other leaders of the Turkish government. The trial continues until June 26, 1919.
1919
May 22
The special Military Court tries the organizers of deportations and slaughter in Trebizond and punishes eight as criminals.
1919
May 28
By secret order of the British Military Government, 77 Turkish criminals are transferred from a prison at Constantinople to Malta and their convictions are expunged.
1919
June 25
In the name of the the Supreme Allied Council, Georges Clemenceau declares at the Peace Conference that Turkey officially has accepted guilt for the Armenian massacres.
1919
July 5
Following the trial of the Unionists (these were the members of the Union and Progress Committee, in power since 1909), Talaat Pasha, Enver Pasha, Djemal Pasha and Dr. Nazim "are adjudged to be the principal criminals and their guilt has been decided by unanimous vote". All four are sentenced to death in absentia. It is to be noted that this trial took place during the period Constantinople was occupied by the Allied armies.
1919
October 17 The Supreme Council of the Allies, at the San Remo Conference, proposes that the United States accept a mandate over Armenia.
1920
January 13 and for months following
Various other trials take place in Constantinople and a number of Turkish officials and Young Turks are convicted and sentenced to death for their involvement in the crimes against the Armenian people.
1920
February French forces in post-war occupation of Cilicia unexpectedly withdraw. Turks take advantage of the opportunity and kill 30,000 Armenians.
1920
May 24
The President of the United States, Woodrow Wilson, asks the Congress to give him the right to accept a mandate over Armenia and send troops there. Ultimately, the United States decides not to accept a mandate because of the inherent risks, even though still widely sympathetic to the Armenian cause.
1920
August 10
The Treaty of Sevres, signed by Turkey, Britain, France, Italy, Japan, Armenia, Belgium, Greece, Lebanon, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Serbian-Croatian-Slovenic Republic and Czechoslovakia, recognizes the Armenian Republic and ordains that the borders between Turkey and Armenia in the vilayets of Erzerum, Trebizond, Van and Bitlis be determined by President Wilson. According to the peace agreement, Turkey accepts its responsibility for the crimes against the Armenians during the war and undertakes the obligation to compensate for the losses sustained by the Armenians. It also agrees to hand over to the Allies the persons responsible for the massacres. President Wilson appoints a commision which sets the boundaries of a much expanded Armenia, including significant seacoast, but all to naught. The Treaty of Sevres is never carried out. It was repudiated by Turkey and eventually replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne, which had no provisions dealing with Armenia.
1921
May 16
The independent Armenian Republic, in existence since May 28, 1918, is tranformed into the Soviet Socialist Republic of Armenia.
1922
September Kemal Ataturk's forces seize and set fire to the city of Smyrna and engage in a rampage, killing Greeks and Armenians. 150,000 perish.
1923
April 25
Unrepentant Turkey enacts the law of "abandoned property" which provides for the confiscation of all property abandoned by Armenians absent from the country, regardless of the date, reason or conditions of their departure.
1923
July 24
The Treaty of Lausanne is signed by the new Republic of Turkey and the Great Powers. The Treaty recognizes full Turkish sovereignty over all its territory, and contains no provisions about Armenia. Winston Churchill has written: "In the Treaty of Lausanne, which re-establishes peace between Turkey and the Allies, history will search in vain for the word Armenia".
1923
September
Turkey adopts a law which prohibits the return of Armenians who left Cilicia or any of the eastern vilayets whether or not they had left voluntarily.
http://www.littlearmenia.com/html/genocide/genocide_timeline.asp
Weer vind je helemaal niets over Turken en Koerden die afgeslacht worden door Armeniers.
1875
December 1
By order of the Turkish government, the Armenian market district at Van is destroyed by fire with great loss to Armenian property, goods, and businesses.
1878 Russia victorious in Russo-Turkish War of 1877-1878. Russo-Turkish Treaty of San Stefano (February 19, 1878) provides for protection and reforms for Armenians. Great Britain negotiates a secret Cyprus Convention with Turkey (June 1978) to allow British to establish bases on Cyprus and to administer Cyprus. In return, Britain insists Russo-Turkish issues be decided, instead, by an international conference. The resulting Congress of Berlin (June 1978) replaces the protective measures of San Stefano under Article 16 with unsatisfactory and ineffective provisions for Armenian people under Article 61, and returns Garin (Erzerum) to Turkey. Russia retains Kars and Ardahan.
1879
Armenian performances are forbidden in Constantinople. The urban Armenian population of Garin and Arabkir come out against the government.
1880
August
By special order of the Turkish government, the word "Armenia" is forbidden for use in official documents.
1884
June
Armenians "rebel" in Zeitun against oppressive Turkish taxes.
1886
The Turkish government divides Western Armenia administratively into separate vilayets of Erzerum, Garin, Kharput, Diarbekir, Dersim, Bitlis (Baghesh), Van, Hekyari and Sivas (Sebastia).
1888
The Turkish government orders that all Armenian periodicals and magazines in Constantinople and Western Armenia be discontinued.
1890
June 15
An Armenian demonstration in the district of Gum-Gapu in Constantinople is drowned in Armenian blood.
1890
June 18-20
Alleging provocative actions by Armenians, Turkish armed forces and Turkish mobs attack Armenians in Garin (Erzerum). Hundreds of Armenians are killed.
1891
January
The Armenians of Vardenis in Taron are robbed by Turks and their village is destroyed.
1893
Sultan Abdul Hamid II, known as the Bloody Sultan, suspends the Armenian National Constitution, and also discontinues the national parliament in Constantinople, which includes some Armenian representatives.
1894
August 20-27
Sassun’s Gelie-guzan village massacre, known as the "Gelie-guzan Hole Carnage" takes place. Here, Turks inaugurate the system of slaughtering unarmed people, which later was the prototype for Hitler’s concentration camps.
1894
August 25-30
Sassun’s Gebin Mount carnage is inflicted when the Turkish army manages to force Armenian women, children and old men to leave Andok for the forest on the bottom of mountain. The army ignites the forest and burns the Armenians alive. Note: This is a harbinger of the extermination of future victims by burning them alive in stables and other large storage facilities.
1894
August
10,000 Armenians are killed and 74 Armenian villages are destroyed in Sassun.
1894
August-October
Armenians refuse to pay illegal taxes to Kurdish irregular forces in Sassun. Unrest in the vilayet of Bitlis, near Mush. Revolt in Sassun. Attempted uprising against Kurdish oppression is followed by massacres in Sassun. A joint report published on July 28, 1895 by the Commission of Inquiry created by the initiative of the Great Powers, estimates the number of victims at 5,000.
1895
May 11
Governments of six countries present the Turkish Sultan Abdul Hamid II a special note describing the disastrous conditions of Armenia and demand the Turkish government to carry out improvements.
1895
August
Joint memorandum presented by Britain, France and Russia to the Sultan, pointing out the disastrous situation in the Armenian provinces and urging him to proceed with the reforms. The Imperial Turkish Government replies in August 1895 and promises to carry out the reforms specified in Article 61 of the Treaty of Berlin (1978).
1895
September 30
Carnage of Armenians in Baberd at the hands of the Turks.
1895
September 30, October
In the Bab Ali section of Constantinople, Armenians carry out a peaceful demonstration. The Turks set upon killing Armenians. 2000 Armenians die. Protests by the Great Powers by joint note from three ambassadors (French, British and Russian) on October 13-15 demand reforms. On October 31 a decree is issued, providing for reforms.
1895
October 5
Mass obliteration of Armenians takes place in Trebizond and its villages. Armenians of Sassun share the same fate.
1895
October 7
Armenians of Derjan province are slaughtered by the Turks.
1895
October 8
Massacres of Armenians by Turks begin in the vilayet of Trebizond as confirmed by the report of Gillieres, the French Consul in Trebizond.
1895
October 9
The carnage of Armenians at Erzingan and Kamakh by the Turks.
1895
October 10
In Kghi province more than 1000 Armenians are killed, and dozens of villages destroyed. In Bitlis, 102 villages are destroyed. On the same day the carnage of Armenians at Charsanjak and in its villages begins, taking almost 700 lives. In Balu, the body count of Armenian victims reaches 1200, Arabkir – 2800, Torgom – 500
1895
October 13
Most of the Armenians in Baghesh are killed by the Turks.
1895
October 16
Urfa in Yedesia is attacked and in spite of persistent defense, the Turkish army and the Turkish mob succeed in slaying around 10,000 Armenians. On the same day, the Turks inflict similiar carnage in Shapin-Garahisar. 2000 Armenians are slain in the town and 3000 in 30 villages.
1895
October 21
The Armenian population in Erzingan, a town of Erzerum vilayet, is slaughtered by the Turks. 1000 Armenians are killed.
1895
October 23
3000 Armenians of Malatia are killed. 1000 houses are burned.
1895
October 25
Massacres follow in Bitlis, in the vilayet of Bitlis.
1895
October 26
Almost the entire Armenian population of Kharput is slaughtered by the Turks. The body count exceeds 4000. Mass massacres take place in Bayburd, vilayet of Erzerum. 165 villages are destroyed.
1895
October 27-28
Massacres in Urfa, vilayet of Aleppo, the first by the Hamidie Kurdish regiments organized by the Turks for this purpose, confirmed by the report of the British consul, Fitzmaurice, dated March 16, 1896.
1895
October 30
Massacres in Erzerum, vilayet of Erzerum. 400 killed by the Turkish mob and soldiers.
1895
October 31
Massacres occur in Garin and in the vilayet of Erzerum. Around 2000 Armenians are killed; 43 villages are destroyed.
1895
October Organized massacres of Armenians by Turks in Constantinople and Trebizond.
1895
November 1
Diarbekir carnage begins. 1000 Armenians are killed in the town and 30,000 more in the villages. 119 villages are destroyed. Massacres in Arabkir, vilayet of Kharput. 2,800 dead. Massacres in Diarbekir, vilayet of Diarbekir. Confirmed by a telegram of Meyrier, the French consul in Diarbekir, sent on November 3 to P. Cambon, the French ambassador in Constantinople. He estimates incorrectly: 5000 dead. 119 villages are pillaged and set on fire.
1895
November 3
Almost the whole Armenian population in Marzvan, around 700 people, are killed by the Turks.
1895
November 4
3,800 killed in the vilayet of Kharput by the Turks.
1895
November 10
Systematic Turkish army attacks on Van take place. The city of Van, in the vilayet of Van, is attacked by the Turkish Hamidie forces. Forced conversions to Islam in Kharput, vilayet of Kharput.
1895
November 11
Turkish army attacks the town of Balu, in the vilayet of Kharput. It results in 1680 Armenian deaths. Turkey proclaims a holy war (Djihad).
1895
November 12
Turks kill 1,500 Armenians in the vilayet of Sivas, and an equal number in Gurun.
1895
November 15-17
Armies of Sultan destroy Aintab in the vilayet of Aleppo and kill 1500 Armenians.
1895
November 18
Massacres in Marash, vilayet of Aleppo. 1,000 Armenians are killed.
1895
November 18-20
160 villages around the city of Van are robbed and pillaged.
1895
November 28
In Zklus, 200 Armenians are killed; in Amasia, 100; and in Aleppo, 1000.
1895
December
Armenians of the villages of Norduz, Hayots Dzor, Gavash and Karchevan in the vilayet of Bitlis are set upon by fire and sword. 100 villages are destroyed. On December 28 in the town of Ourfa (Yedesia), 8000 Armenians are slaughtered. 100 villages around Mush, vilayet of Bitlis, are destroyed.
1895
December 28
A battalion of Turkish-led Hamidie forces, proceeding from Aleppo, encircles the town of Urfa. Massacres on the following day kill 8,000 Armenians. This is confirmed by the above-mentioned report of the British consul, Fitzmaurice, dated March 16, 1896, as well as by the French consul.
Global Estimates
Most of the figures mentioned through 1895 come to a total of 150,000 to 300,000 dead, to which must be added some 150,000 forced conversions and some 100,000 emigrants forced to flee. The report written by the agents of the European Powers estimate 28,000 killed just in the localities where representatives of foreign nations were present.
1896
June 8-15
The population of Van and nearby villages is destroyed. The major Armenian population of Sgherdi is decimated and survivors are forcibly converted to Islam. In 40 villages of Khizan, 400 people, and in 20 villages of Mamrzank 160 people are slain, and the others are converted to Islam forcibly. All Armenian villages of Shatakh are devastated and turned to ruins. 11 villages of Gyumushkhane are destroyed and most of their population slain.
1896
Middle of June
Turks break their vow and near St. Bartholemew Church, attack Armenians in Van seeking to defend themselves, murdering 1500 people. The survivors flee to Persia.
1896
August 26
A group of Armenian militants of the Dashnak Party occupies the Ottoman Bank in Constantinople in order to gain the attention of foreign powers to the oppression of the Armenians. Achieving their purpose, they leave the bank in the evening and are picked up by boat and taken to France. Much attention is aroused in the Western capitals. However, this action results in a massacre in Constantinople, on August 27, killing approximately 7,000 Armenian victims.
1896
August 28
Representatives of the Great Powers send a telegram of protest to the Ottoman authorities.
1896
September 2
Armenian population of Agn is destroyed. Half the houses in the city are burned. Joint verbal note of protest issued by the Great Powers, accusing the Sublime Porte directly.
1896
September 3
In the city of Mush and its villages, 250 Armenians are killed by the Turks.
1896
November 10
In Agn’s Binkaya village, 250 Armenians are killed. Of the 250 houses there, only 12 houses remain standing.
1894-1896
300,000 Armenians become the victims of the carnages inflicted by the Turks. In addition, almost as many flee the country.
1900
August
Mothers and children are cut down by sword in Sassun’s Spaghanak villages by sudden attacks late at night.
1904
May
7500 Armenians are slain in Sassun by the Turks.
1908
April 14
Violent outbreaks in Adana (in Cilicia) and in near-by towns, in an attempted counter-revolution by Turks supporting the Sultan. They are soon squelched.
1908
July
Military coup in Salonica by the Young Turk movement (the Union and Progress Party). There begins a brief period of collaboration among Turks, Armenians and other minorities. The subsequent massacres in Adana do not shake this new-found cooperation.
1908
July 24
The Ottoman Constitution is proclaimed.
1909
April 15-25
30,000 Armenians are slaughtered in Adana, Tarsus and other towns of Cilicia. The Turkish army bears direct responsibility, but the Armenian community is willing to consider it as an isolated incident, and to continue to trust the Young Turks until further events prove otherwise.
1913
January 29
In Turkey, the triumvirate of Enver, Talaat and Jemal Pasha heads the government.
1914
February 8
Under the combined influence of Russia and Great Britain, the Turkish authorities sign the Armenian Reform Project and agree to take certain measures in favor of the Armenian population.The Dutch, Westemeck, and the Norwegian, Hoft, are appointed as General Inspectors of the Armenian provinces, but they are rendered ineffective. The promised measures are not implemented.
1914- beginning of 1915
The Armenian Patriarchate in Constantinople estimates the Armenian population in Turkey at 2,100,000. World War I begins July 1914. Loyally, the Armenians participate in the war effort. Mobilization of the entire population, including Armenians, is decreed and the Armenians of Turkey take part in the war on the Caucasian and Western fronts. Immediately preceding the war, the Armenian population is neutral because a number of Armenians in Russia is mobilized on the Russian side, and a natural desire to avoid a fratricidal war. Some Armenian presence in the Russian Army will become an argument used by the Turkish authorities in their attempt to justify the measures they took later to destroy the Armenian people.
1915
January
Enver is disastrously defeated in Sarikamish at the hands of Russian troops, marking a failure of his Pan-Turanian plans. The Turkish authorities decree the demobilization and disarmament of the Armenians. The Armenians are grouped into small work battalions used for garbage details and similar tasks. The Armenian soldiers in the Turkish army, under the pretext of work details, are marched and killed in cold blood or used for target practice.
1915
January 13
A.F. Kerensky, a member of the National Council of Russia and later briefly to be the leader of Russia, in a report, describes the astounding plight of Armenian refugees. He declares that when the Turkish attacks on Russian territory began, rivers of Armenian refugees stretched to the North… "That was not an escape, it was the great demise of a whole nation".
1915
February 13
Two Armenian deputies of the Ottoman Assembly submit a note concerning the massacres and executions of several such battalions.
1915
February 26 War Minister Enver convenes 75 top ranking Ittihadists. This secret meeting finalizes the details of the plan to carry out a genocide of the Armenians. Evidence indicates that the decision to carry out the Genocide was made some years earlier.
1915
April 8
The process of removing the Armenian population of Zeitun commences. Taking advantage of the defense staged by a group of young Armenians, the Turkish army invades Zeitun, with the assistance of local Turks, to re-establish control. The mass deportation and massacres of Armenian inhabitants of the entire region is immediately organized. This mountainous region had always preserved a quasi-autonomy.
1915
April 15
Talaat, Enver and Nazem send a secret order to the local governments for the removal and extermination of Armenians in Turkey.
1915
April 15-18
While the Armenian population of Van is fleeing to Russia because of the evacuation of the Russian army, the Turkish forces attack villages of the vilayet. They destroy 80 villages and slay 24,000 Armenians in the vilayet and city of Van. The Turks accuse the Armenians of collaboration with the Russian troops.
1915
April 20
At the news of the massacres, the mostly Armenian population of Van takes to the barricades. The Turkish authorities will also use this incident on the Caucasian front and the resistance of the Armenians as a pretext to justify the measures of deportation (and massacre) they are about to inflict.
1915
April 20- May 19
The remaining Armenians of Van try to defend themselves from the overwhelming Turkish forces.
1915
April 24
800 Armenian leaders, writers and intellectuals are arrested in Constantinople and murdered. The barbaric Armenian genocide begins. This is a most important date for all Armenians today. It represents the date for commemorating the Armenian Genocide each year throughout the world.
1915
April 27-30
The forced removal and deportation of Dyurt Yol’s Armenian population begins.
1915
May 15
Turkish forces begin the process of removal and deportation of the Armenian population from villages in the vilayet of Erzerum.
1915
May 16
Law of May 16, 1915 is enacted with "instructions pertaining to property and real estate abandoned by the deported Armenians, consequences of the war and unusual political circumstances". This law provides for the installation of Turkish refugees in the homes and on the lands belonging to the Armenians.
1915
May 24
The governments of England, France and Russia jointly warn the Turkish government publicly that "They will hold personally responsible... all members of the Ottoman government and those of their agents who are implicated in such massacres". This is the first time in the international arena three large countries publicly characterize the Turkish actions against Armenians as crimes against "humanity and civilization" for which "personal responsibility is laid on every member of the Turkish government who participated in the carnages". The communique of the Allied Powers of the Entente, published by the Havas news agency, accuses the Ottoman Turkish government directly for the massacres against the Armenian population.
1915
May 27
The law of May 27, 1915 is enacted concerning the "displacement of suspected persons." This law empowers army officers to relocate populations upon the simple suspicion of treason or for military reasons.
1915
June 1
12,000 Armenian soldiers in the Turkish army are massacred in Balu, vilayet of Diarbekir.
1915
June 10 A supplementary law is enacted regarding reporting property of deportees. See entry under September 26 as to supplementary law adopted September 26, 1915.
1915
June 12 – July 3
Turkish armies slay or remove Armenians of Shapin Garahisar, who tried to defend themselves.
1915
June 15
21 leaders of the Hnchukyan Party are hanged publicly in Constantinople.
1915
June 24
Massacres and deportations of the inhabitants of Shabin Karahissar begin.
1915
June 25
The removal and deportation of the Armenians of the city of Sivas begin.
1915
June 26
The removal of the Armenian population of Kharput and Trebizond vilayets are commenced by the Turkish army. Photocopy of the original deportation order (written in old Turkish with Arabic characters) is to be found in the Archives of the United States State Department in Washington, DC.
1915
June 27
Mass removals and deportations of Armenians begin in Samsun.
1915
July 1
Assyrians and Armenians are deported from Medzpin (Nisibe), Tel-Ermen (Hill of the Armenians), Bitlis, vilayet of Bitlis, Mardin and surrounding regions.
1915
July 3
The massacre begins of the Armenian population of Mush, Sassun and Bitlis vilayets begins.
1915
July 10
The Armenian population of Malatia is deported.
1915
July 13
Self-defense of Musa mountain begins. The heroic band of Armenians is later vividly depicted in the best-selling novel "Forty Days of Musa Dagh" by Franz Werfel.
1915
July 27
The Armenian population of Cilicia and Antioch is deported.
1915
July 28
The removal of the Armenian population of the Cilician cities, Aintab and Qilise, is carried out. In Great Britain's House of Lords, in answer to Viscount James Bryce’s question concerning the slaughter of Christians in Armenia, the president of the Military Council, Lord Grew declares that the information received by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs shows that the Turkish crimes are increasing both in numbers and in violence. Lord Grew declares that "all those mass carnages and violent removals are engaged under the pretext of forced transmigration".
1915
July 29 Deportations begin from Aintab and Kilisse, in Cilicia.
1915
July 30
Deportations begin from Suedia, in Cilicia.
1915
August 16
Deportations begin from Marash in Cilicia and Konia in western Asia Minor.
1915
August 10- 19
Removal and deportations begin of Armenians from Smyrna (Nikodemia), Brusa, Bartizak, Adabazar and surrounding areas.
1915
August 19
Removal and deportation begin of Armenian population of Urfa in Yedesia.
1915
September 15
Turkey’s Minister of Interior, Talaat Pasha, cables to the Aleppo Prefecture the confirmation of the previously transmitted order for removal of Armenians and their final elimination. The original of this cable is reproduced in the book of A. Andonian "The Memoirs of Naim Bey (The Genocide of the Armenians by the Turks). With a New Preface by the Armenian Historical Association", Documentary Series, Vol. I, Great Britain, Reprint 1964, 83 pp. Exhibit No. 3 at the trial of Soghomon Tehlirian, authenticated by the German Court. (At a trial before a Berlin court in 1921, following the assassination of Talaat by Tehlirian, Tehlirian was acquitted by the Court because of the circumstances.)
1915
September 15
Rashid, Governor of Diarbekir, sends cable to Talaat, the Minister of the Interior, announcing that the number of Armenians "expelled" from Diarbekir has reached 120,000.
1915
September 26
"Provisional law concerning the property, debts and receivables of persons relocated elsewhere" is adopted. This law provides for the liquidation of debts and receivables of displaced persons (Armenians). A special commission is "charged" with holding the proceeds of sales in escrow. The German Foreign Office summarized this law as compressed to provide "1. All goods of the Armenians are confiscated. 2. The governments will cash in the credits of the deportees and will repay (will not repay) their debts".
1915
September 30 and October 7
In Bern, Switzerland, at its Central Hall, public meetings are held deploring the ongoing Armenian tragedy.
1915
October
110 famous German and Italian civilians in Switzerland, including scientists, journalists and public figures publish "The Call" both in French and German, in defense of the Armenian people.
Note As in Switzerland, in many other places all over the world, there were many, many public meetings of protest and countless public statements by various heads of state and other officials condemning the Turkish massacres and deportations of the Armenians, threatening the Turks responsible with appropriate punishment and promising justice and territorial and/or monetary restitution for the Armenians. The statements and meetings referred to in this chronology are but a tiny sample.
1915
October 6
In Great Britain’s House of Lords, Lord James Bryce denounces the Turkish murderous campaign against the Armenians. He declares the time has passed when any harm could be caused by public statements and the more complete the statements, the more good it may bring, because it remains the only chance of preventing these carnages from continuing, if they are not over yet. It is a pity, he says, that his information from several sources indicates that the number of victims is very large. It is considered to be 800,000 as of then. He states that there is no commandment in Islam that can justify such slaughters. He urges every effort be made to send help for the poor, wretched survivors, hundreds of which are dying of starvation and disease. "That is all that we can do now in England and let us do it and do it swiftly".
1915
October 12
In Great Britain’s House of Commons, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Edward Grey declares "All the information concerning the carnages of Armenians in Turkey became public. Only two feelings can describe it – horror and disturbance."
1915
November 16
As the government spokesman for questions from members of the House of Commons, Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lord R. Cecil declares that Turkey intended not to punish the Armenian race, but to destroy it. That was the only goal.
1915
November 18
In Paris at the "American Club", a public meeting urges help to alleviate the Armenian suffering.
1915
December 12
Talaat, Minister of the Interior, sends a telegram to the Prefecture of Aleppo. He states that in view of the rather compassionate attitude of certain valis with respect to orphans, the order is given that the orphans be sent away with the caravans, with the exception of the very young ones unable to remember the atrocities. The original cable is reproduced in said Andonian's book "The Memoirs of Naim Bey (The Genocide of the Armenians by the Turks)".
1916
January 11
In Germany’s Reichstag, deputy Karl Libknecht, an international socialist figure, directs a question to the Vice Chancellor, as to whether he is aware that in Turkey, their ally, thousands of Armenian citizens have been removed from their homes and exterminated. He demands that the German government forbid the Turks from further terrifying actions against the remaining Armenian population.
1916
February 9
The United States Senate votes (with the concurrence of the House of Representatives) to ask the President of the United States of America to set a special day when citizens of this country can help Armenians with financial support, considering that many of them, being in the country that was at war, were forced to leave their houses and belongings without any opportunity to care even for their primal needs, are afflicted with hunger, disease and untold sufferings. President Wilson designates August 21 and August 22 for making contributions for the suffering Armenians.
1916
February 9
In the Russian Duma, Minister of Foreign Affairs S.D. Sazonov declares "I have mentioned before about the awful sufferings of that wretched race. Under the tacit assent of its ally, Germany, the Turks hoped to bring alive their desire to exterminate the entire Armenian race..."
1916
March 7
Talaat, Minister of the Interior, sends a cable to the Aleppo Prefecture, ordering the extermination of children at military installations.
1916
April 9
"Homage to Armenia" gathering takes place in Paris’ Sorbonne University, attracting thousands of people. Speaking at that gathering, France’s Minister of Education declares that "For more than a year carnages paint Armenia red in blood and have surpassed other crimes in scale and in violence. Germany can be proud of its horrid deeds". At the same program, the opening words of the president of the National Council of France, Paul Deshnanel, firmly condemns the slaughter of Armenians at the hands of the Turkish executioners.
1916
July 29
"France-Armenia" company is formed in Paris, members of which are ministers of the French government, senators, deputies, Georges Clemenceau, writer Anatole France and other dignitaries.
1916
August 19
Decree abolishes the national Armenian constitution of 1863, in violation of Article 61 of the Treaty of Berlin concerning religious freedom.
1916
November 16
In Berlin’s Missionary Union, Doctor Karl Accenfeld sends a statement to the German Chancellor Bettman-Holveg in which he asserts "In neutral countries large accusations are spreading against Germany about not only calmly watching, but also helping to realize the extinction of a whole Christian race". Note: In the bibliography in this web-site is listed a volume by Dadrian dealing with the German involvement.
1917
January 1
By a special decree/law the government of Turkey condemns the 1978 Treaty of Berlin and especially Article 61.
1917
March 29
In Stockholm, a large meeting takes place dedicated to repudiation of the mass murder of Armenians. The members of the meeting deplore the insensitivity of Sweden towards Armenians.
1917
November 6
In Great Britain’s House of Commons, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Arthur Balfour declares "Do we need to ignore that Armenia should be given back, as respected gentlemen wish to give it back with their formula, under the reign of Turkey. I don’t want to ruin the Turkish community – consisting of Turks, in Turkish fitting style, commanding the Turks. No, our constant goal is the emancipation of non-Turks from Turkish governance. What is imperialistic in wishing to see Poland independent, Armenia liberated from Turks, Alsace Lorraine rejoined to France, to see Italy having its own population, language, area and civilization".
1917
December 4
Speaking in the Congress of the United States, President Wilson states "We hope to provide the right and opportunity for people living in the Turkish Empire to make their lives safe and their fate secure from aggression and injustice, orders of foreign courts and parties.
1918
January 6
In the name of the "Germano - Armenian community", Paul Rorbach, Edward Kir and Martin Rade urge the government of Germany to promote autonomy for Armenia.
1918
January 8
President Wilson’s Declaration of Fourteen Points is published. The 12th Point extends promise to the Armenians of security of life and an unmolested opportunity for autonomous development.
1918
March
Treaty of Brest-Litovsk is signed between Russia and Turkey after Russia's withdrawal brought about by the Russian Revolution. Turkish invasion of Russian Armenia causes more killings of Armenians including those fleeing from Turkish Armenia. Fighting continues on the Caucasian front involving Armenian units.
1918
May 28
The Armenian National Council, of necessity to fill a vacuum, announces itself the supreme and only administrative body for the comparatively small remaining territory in what was Russian Armenia. Such words as "independence" or "republic" are intentionally avoided pending the outcome of a nearby battle with the invading Turkish forces (which the Armenians do win).
1918
June 4
In Batum, the Treaty of Peace and Friendship is signed between Ottoman Turkey and the Republic of Armenia, proclaiming, hollowly, peace and eternal friendship. It provided, among other terms, detailed provisions dealing with conduct at or near their common boundary.
1918
mid-October
United States Congressman Edward Little presents a resolution to the Congress advocating that the "Armenian people have the right to be free and independent, have an outlet to the sea and be the masters of the Christian culture for which their sons had been sacrificed".
1918
October 30
The armistice of Moudros ends the war between the Allies and Turkey. Global estimates of the campaign of extermination: close to 1,500,000 Armenians dead.
1918
November
Defeated Turkey recognizes the small Armenian Republic whose territory consists only of a small fraction of former Armenian lands. Turkey also cedes to it the vilayets of Kars and Ardahan the following year. This transfer proves to be only temporary.
1918
November 13
In Great Britain’s House of Lords, James Bryce, speaking about Armenia and Cilicia, severely criticizes the Turkish government. He states in part: "As Your Highness and Lords already know, the present Turkish government includes people that were involved in the astonishing carnages (that happened in 1915). Every respected Lord that wants to refresh his memory can read the Blue Book published by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1916, in which you’ll find the description of the awful massacres that are written in history everywhere, in spite of all the attempts not to allow or justify them. Not only is Talaat Pasha in the group of criminals that created the Union and Progress Committee, but also others who still are active in the present Turkish government must take the responsibility for those carnages".
1918
December 10
United States Senator Henry Cabot Lodge presented a proposal for the Senate to express the view that Armenia, including the six vilayets in Turkey and Cilicia should be independent and the peace conference should help Armenia to create an independent republic. While Lodge was very sympathetic to the Armenian cause, he later opposed the United States accepting a mandate of Armenia to avoid possible military involvement.
1919
January 8
By the order of Sultan Mahmed VI it was ordered that the First, Second and Third Military Tribunals prosecute criminally the leaders of the "Young Turks" and other implicated members of the government.
1919
April 8
A Military Tribunal finds a number of Turkish leaders guilty of carnages in the Yozkhat area. The Court finds that Kemal Bey ordered the Moslems of the area to eliminate all the Armenian population, and sentences him to death.
1919
April 27
In Constantinople, the trial begins of members of the Union and Progress Party, and other leaders of the Turkish government. The trial continues until June 26, 1919.
1919
May 22
The special Military Court tries the organizers of deportations and slaughter in Trebizond and punishes eight as criminals.
1919
May 28
By secret order of the British Military Government, 77 Turkish criminals are transferred from a prison at Constantinople to Malta and their convictions are expunged.
1919
June 25
In the name of the the Supreme Allied Council, Georges Clemenceau declares at the Peace Conference that Turkey officially has accepted guilt for the Armenian massacres.
1919
July 5
Following the trial of the Unionists (these were the members of the Union and Progress Committee, in power since 1909), Talaat Pasha, Enver Pasha, Djemal Pasha and Dr. Nazim "are adjudged to be the principal criminals and their guilt has been decided by unanimous vote". All four are sentenced to death in absentia. It is to be noted that this trial took place during the period Constantinople was occupied by the Allied armies.
1919
October 17 The Supreme Council of the Allies, at the San Remo Conference, proposes that the United States accept a mandate over Armenia.
1920
January 13 and for months following
Various other trials take place in Constantinople and a number of Turkish officials and Young Turks are convicted and sentenced to death for their involvement in the crimes against the Armenian people.
1920
February French forces in post-war occupation of Cilicia unexpectedly withdraw. Turks take advantage of the opportunity and kill 30,000 Armenians.
1920
May 24
The President of the United States, Woodrow Wilson, asks the Congress to give him the right to accept a mandate over Armenia and send troops there. Ultimately, the United States decides not to accept a mandate because of the inherent risks, even though still widely sympathetic to the Armenian cause.
1920
August 10
The Treaty of Sevres, signed by Turkey, Britain, France, Italy, Japan, Armenia, Belgium, Greece, Lebanon, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Serbian-Croatian-Slovenic Republic and Czechoslovakia, recognizes the Armenian Republic and ordains that the borders between Turkey and Armenia in the vilayets of Erzerum, Trebizond, Van and Bitlis be determined by President Wilson. According to the peace agreement, Turkey accepts its responsibility for the crimes against the Armenians during the war and undertakes the obligation to compensate for the losses sustained by the Armenians. It also agrees to hand over to the Allies the persons responsible for the massacres. President Wilson appoints a commision which sets the boundaries of a much expanded Armenia, including significant seacoast, but all to naught. The Treaty of Sevres is never carried out. It was repudiated by Turkey and eventually replaced by the Treaty of Lausanne, which had no provisions dealing with Armenia.
1921
May 16
The independent Armenian Republic, in existence since May 28, 1918, is tranformed into the Soviet Socialist Republic of Armenia.
1922
September Kemal Ataturk's forces seize and set fire to the city of Smyrna and engage in a rampage, killing Greeks and Armenians. 150,000 perish.
1923
April 25
Unrepentant Turkey enacts the law of "abandoned property" which provides for the confiscation of all property abandoned by Armenians absent from the country, regardless of the date, reason or conditions of their departure.
1923
July 24
The Treaty of Lausanne is signed by the new Republic of Turkey and the Great Powers. The Treaty recognizes full Turkish sovereignty over all its territory, and contains no provisions about Armenia. Winston Churchill has written: "In the Treaty of Lausanne, which re-establishes peace between Turkey and the Allies, history will search in vain for the word Armenia".
1923
September
Turkey adopts a law which prohibits the return of Armenians who left Cilicia or any of the eastern vilayets whether or not they had left voluntarily.
Het heet ook Khojaly genocide, en ik zou het geen dorp noemen hoor. Karabakh is 20% van Azerbaijan.quote:Op donderdag 15 april 2010 23:50 schreef Kees22 het volgende:
[..]
Ik heb de video niet bekeken, maar je verhaal klopt niet.
Het uitmoorden van een dorp is geen genocide. Daarmee is het niet goedgepraat, maar het valt gewoon in een andere categorie. Het uitroeien van een volk is genocide. En dan ook nog het uitroeien van een volk omdat het dat volk is.
Edit:
Oh, en ik ben geen Armeniër. Mijn ouders zijn Nederlanders en de familie van mijn vader is zelfs aantoonbaar Nederlands vanaf 1600.
Naast de 600 doden zijn er nog steeds 12000 vluchtelingen. Zij leven tot op de dag van vandaag in slechte omstandigheden in Azerbaijan.
Om een beeld van de armeniers te krijgen, zij beweren dat Karabakh bij armenie hoort.
Ondanks dit hele gebeuren. Ook verzinnen ze verschillende verhalen erbij en worden de rollen omgedraaid. Nou mooi niet dus, het staat in alle officiële geschriften dat Karabakh bij Azerbaijan hoort.
En dan moeten wij van dit volk geloven in 'de armeense genocide'?
Hier een duidelijke voorbeeld van hoe beschaafd armenia is.
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door gitler op 16-04-2010 13:31:01 ]
Nee, hoezo?quote:Op vrijdag 16 april 2010 09:44 schreef polderturk het volgende:
Conclusie:
Officiele verhaal Armeniers:
Turken hebben Armeniers massaal gedeporteerd en afgeslacht en er was geen sprake van een Armeense opstand
Kunnen we met zijn allen vaststellen dat het officiele Armeense verhaal onzin is?
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Doe je nu je best om zoveel mogelijk op een neo-nazi te lijken? Je ontkent een genocide, en iedereen die je tegenspreekt, is een jood Armenier.*quote:Op donderdag 15 april 2010 22:02 schreef gitler het volgende:
[..]
Kijk, dit laat wel zien hoe armeniers zijn.
*Als deze vergelijking je niet aanstaat, kun je de woorden neo-Nazi en Armenier vervangen door: communist en kapitalist, Amerikaan en communist, Italiaan en Ethiopier, KNIL-soldaat en plopper.
The crowning attainment of historical study is a historical sense - an intuitive understanding of how things do not happen. - Lewis Namier
Laatste waarschuwing: dit hoort niet in dit topic. Dat gaat over de gebeurtenissen rond de Eerste Wereldoorlog. Wil je het hier toch over hebben? Prima, start een nieuw topic.quote:Op vrijdag 16 april 2010 13:30 schreef gitler het volgende:
En nog wat om aan dit onderwerp te bijdragen. Een korte video met een duidelijke punt.
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Leuk, maar dat vroeg ik niet. Dit is geen wedstrijd wie het zieligst is. Nog een keer. Waar haal je vandaan dat geclaimd wordt dat Armenen geen verzet hebben gepleegd?quote:Op vrijdag 16 april 2010 09:41 schreef polderturk het volgende:
[..]
Op 8 mei 1915 zijn er 40.000 Koerden en Turken vermoord door Armeniers in Bitlis. Waarom wordt dat niet op deze chronologie vermeld? Op 22 mei zijn er 80,000 Koerden en Turken vermoord door Armeniers in Van. Waarom wordt dat niet vermeld in onderstaande chronologie?
Wel grappig dat bijna iedereen hier al een uitgesproken mening heeft zonder maar enig (goed) onderzoek te doen.
Ik had de niveau hier wel wat hoger ingeschat...
Ik had de niveau hier wel wat hoger ingeschat...
Bijna iedereen....behalve polderturk, natuurlijk.quote:Op vrijdag 16 april 2010 17:26 schreef gitler het volgende:
Wel grappig dat bijna iedereen hier al een uitgesproken mening heeft zonder maar enig (goed) onderzoek te doen.
The crowning attainment of historical study is a historical sense - an intuitive understanding of how things do not happen. - Lewis Namier
Ook grappig dat men wat blogs leest en denkt het beter te weten dan de algemene wetenschappelijke consensus. Ik had het niveau hier wel wat hoger ingeschat.quote:Op vrijdag 16 april 2010 17:26 schreef gitler het volgende:
Wel grappig dat bijna iedereen hier al een uitgesproken mening heeft zonder maar enig (goed) onderzoek te doen.
Ik had de niveau hier wel wat hoger ingeschat...
I am a Chinese college students, I have a loving father, but I can not help him, he needs to do heart bypass surgery, I can not help him, because the cost of 100,000 or so needed, please help me, lifelong You pray Thank you!
Er zitten in dit topic tenminste één historicus en een armenoloog.quote:Op vrijdag 16 april 2010 17:26 schreef gitler het volgende:
Wel grappig dat bijna iedereen hier al een uitgesproken mening heeft zonder maar enig (goed) onderzoek te doen.
Ik had de niveau hier wel wat hoger ingeschat...
Aan Turkse kant zie ik alleen een hoop hersenloos gecopypaste en gejank dat het uit racistische overwegingen is. Maar dat niveau ben ik inmiddels wel gewend in deze eindeloze discussie.
Als polderturk één post kan fabriceren waarin hij in eigen woorden mét bronvermelding iets kan hardmaken dan wint ie een paashaas.
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Jij weet niet echt veel van politiek he? En dan bedoel ik niet de politiek in Nederland, maar over het algemeen en wat zich in de wereld afspeelt. Jij komt erg naïef over.quote:Op vrijdag 16 april 2010 17:32 schreef Mwanatabu het volgende:
[..]
Er zitten in dit topic tenminste één historicus en een armenoloog.
Aan Turkse kant zie ik alleen een hoop hersenloos gecopypaste en gejank dat het uit racistische overwegingen is. Maar dat niveau ben ik inmiddels wel gewend in deze eindeloze discussie.
Als polderturk één post kan fabriceren waarin hij in eigen woorden mét bronvermelding iets kan hardmaken dan wint ie een paashaas.
Mij maakt niet uit als je de armeense genocide erkent, maar doe tenminste ZELF onderzoek ernaar.
En daar is de volgende aantijging van persoonlijke aard.
The crowning attainment of historical study is a historical sense - an intuitive understanding of how things do not happen. - Lewis Namier
Jouw indruk van mij is niet relevant.quote:Op vrijdag 16 april 2010 17:56 schreef gitler het volgende:
[..]
Jij weet niet echt veel van politiek he? En dan bedoel ik niet de politiek in Nederland, maar over het algemeen en wat zich in de wereld afspeelt. Jij komt erg naïef over.
Ik heb een meter aan literatuur in mn boekenkast staan hierover in 4 verschillende talen. Nu jij weer.quote:Mij maakt niet uit als je de armeense genocide erkent, maar doe tenminste ZELF onderzoek ernaar.
Edit: vijf.
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Goh, daar komt weer zo'n figuur die het liefst vandaag nog een in eer hersteld Ottomaans Rijk zou zien. Gezellig daar in Grijze Wolvega?
De moraal zit in een crisis, niemand weet meer wat van wie is.
Mijn broer Tinus zeker niet; de minkukel neemt steeds ongevraagd bezit van mijn FOK!account. Beste vent wel verder, overigens: http://fotoboek.fok.nl/Tinus_O..
Mijn broer Tinus zeker niet; de minkukel neemt steeds ongevraagd bezit van mijn FOK!account. Beste vent wel verder, overigens: http://fotoboek.fok.nl/Tinus_O..
Gelukkig doet Turkije er alles aan om niet geaccepteerd te worden in de Westerse wereld met zulke standpunten. Hoe zouden wij Duitsland als opvolger van het nazi-rijk zien die de met voorbedachte rade en op raciale poten gestoelde massamoorden op de Roma, Slaven en Joden zouden ontkennen?
Ik denk inderdaad dat landen als Duitsland en Rwanda de enige beschaafde manier hebben gevonden om om te gaan met zo'n verleden: benoemen, onderzoeken, publiceren en als het kan ook opsporen en straffen.
Helaas staat het haaks op het beleid van de VN: niet benoemen (welke genocide? Tutsi's?), onderdrukken (het is geen genocide, het is een etnische zuivering), downplayen (onze rapportage zegt nochtans...) en een VN-vredesmacht uit Bangladesh en Angola erheen sturen voor de symboolpolitiek. Maar o wee als er iets gebeurt in Europa, dan krijgen hoogstens de Nederlanders geen luchtsteun
Helaas staat het haaks op het beleid van de VN: niet benoemen (welke genocide? Tutsi's?), onderdrukken (het is geen genocide, het is een etnische zuivering), downplayen (onze rapportage zegt nochtans...) en een VN-vredesmacht uit Bangladesh en Angola erheen sturen voor de symboolpolitiek. Maar o wee als er iets gebeurt in Europa, dan krijgen hoogstens de Nederlanders geen luchtsteun
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Ik zal dit bericht nogmaals quoten. Jij geeft hier aan dat je zegt dat niemand ontkent dat er geweld was Armeense kant. Waarom maken de pro-Armeense deskundigen daar dan nooit melding over? Waarom wordt het dan stelselmatig weggelaten uit hun verhalen? Waarom ontkent bijvoorbeeld genocide deskundige Ton Zwaan dan dat Armeniers Turken en Koerden hebben afgeslacht?quote:Op zondag 11 april 2010 19:37 schreef Mwanatabu het volgende:
[..]
Nogmaals: niemand ontkent dat er geweld was van Armeense kant. Het grootste deel van je bronnen is trouwens van rond de tijd van de Hamidische massaslachtingen. Wat dat betreft graaf je de kuil voor jezelf alleen dieper: vanaf die tijd was er dus een focus op de Armeense politieke activiteiten en begon de opmaat naar het georganiseerd opruimen van die bevolkingsgroep.
Taner Akçam schrijft hierover heel treffend:
[..]
Je spreekt het onderstaande bericht van jezelf overigens tegen:
quote:
Wat een kotsmisselijk bericht. Het is werkelijk een grove belediging van de Joodse holocaust slachtoffers om de Armeense kwestie te vergelijken met de echte holocaust van de Joden.quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 08:24 schreef Mwanatabu het volgende:
Ik denk inderdaad dat landen als Duitsland en Rwanda de enige beschaafde manier hebben gevonden om om te gaan met zo'n verleden: benoemen, onderzoeken, publiceren en als het kan ook opsporen en straffen.
Helaas staat het haaks op het beleid van de VN: niet benoemen (welke genocide? Tutsi's?), onderdrukken (het is geen genocide, het is een etnische zuivering), downplayen (onze rapportage zegt nochtans...) en een VN-vredesmacht uit Bangladesh en Angola erheen sturen voor de symboolpolitiek. Maar o wee als er iets gebeurt in Europa, dan krijgen hoogstens de Nederlanders geen luchtsteun
Er waren geen Joodse terreurbendes die onbeschermde Duitse dorpen aanvielen en de bevolking uitroeiden. Er waren geen Joodse terreurbendes die honderden duizenden onschuldige Duitsers hebben aangevallen en uitgemoord. Er waren geen Joodse terreurbendes die cruciale Duitse aanvoerlijnen aanvielen. Er waren geen Joodse soldaten in het Duitse leger die deserteerden naar de vijanden.
Bovendien waren er in het Ottomaanse TOT de oorlog EN tijdens de oorlog Armeense soldaten in dienst van het Ottomaanse leger. Armeniers hadden zelfs ministersposten in het Ottomaanse rijk. Is dit in Nazi Duitsland voorstelbaar?
Ja hoor:quote:Bovendien waren er in het Ottomaanse TOT de oorlog EN tijdens de oorlog Armeense soldaten in dienst van het Ottomaanse leger. Armeniers hadden zelfs ministersposten in het Ottomaanse rijk. Is dit in Nazi Duitsland voorstelbaar?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Goldberg
The crowning attainment of historical study is a historical sense - an intuitive understanding of how things do not happen. - Lewis Namier
Is dat grappig? Dat is bij elk onderwerp zo.quote:Op vrijdag 16 april 2010 17:26 schreef gitler het volgende:
Wel grappig dat bijna iedereen hier al een uitgesproken mening heeft zonder maar enig (goed) onderzoek te doen.
Ik had de niveau hier wel wat hoger ingeschat...
The problem is not the occupation, but how people deal with it.
Um, het is maar een gok, hoor, maar misschien omdat Armeniërs nooit Turken en Koerden hebben afgeslacht? In ieder geval niet in die mate als Turken Armeniërs hebben afgeslacht.quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 15:23 schreef polderturk het volgende:
Waarom ontkent bijvoorbeeld genocide deskundige Ton Zwaan dan dat Armeniers Turken en Koerden hebben afgeslacht?
Wie geloof jij eigenlijk wel? Je noemt deze Zwaan zelf 'genocide deskundige', maar als hij iets dat jij maar wilt horen, niet zegt, geloof je hem niet?
De pessimist ziet het duister in de tunnel
De optimist ziet het licht aan het eind van de tunnel
De realist ziet de trein komen
De machinist ziet drie idioten in het spoor staan....
De optimist ziet het licht aan het eind van de tunnel
De realist ziet de trein komen
De machinist ziet drie idioten in het spoor staan....
Grappig dat je je daar zo aan stoort. De meeste mensen vinden het namelijk iets walgelijker om die tweede Holocaust te ontkennen. Mooie quote hierover trouwens van Robert Fisk:quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 15:35 schreef polderturk het volgende:
[..]
Wat een kotsmisselijk bericht. Het is werkelijk een grove belediging van de Joodse holocaust slachtoffers om de Armeense kwestie te vergelijken met de echte holocaust van de Joden.
quote:...toen mijn artikel in The Independent verscheen- ... waren mijn verwijzingen naar de joodse Holocaust inderdaad met de hoofdletter "H" afgedrukt. Maar de Armeense Holocaust kreeg slechts een kleine letter "h".
"Vertel me eens, Robert'" vroeg mijn Armeense vriend mij met onderdrukte woede. "Op welke manier kunnen wij Armeniërs in aanmerking komen voor een hoofdletter "H"? Hebben de Turken nite genoeg Armeniërs om zeep geholpen? Of komt het gewoon omdat we niet joods zijn?"
(Fisk 2008:72 nl)
Nee, die waren tegen die tijd al uit het openbare leven weggesneden. Tevens hebben de nazi's destijds de joden buiten het leger uitgeroeid. De Turken hadden de methode om de strijdbare mannen in te lijven in het leger en ze zonder wapens zich dood te laten werken of na het werk te executeren. Mochten ze wel eerst hun eigen graf graven.quote:Er waren geen Joodse terreurbendes die onbeschermde Duitse dorpen aanvielen en de bevolking uitroeiden. Er waren geen Joodse terreurbendes die honderden duizenden onschuldige Duitsers hebben aangevallen en uitgemoord. Er waren geen Joodse terreurbendes die cruciale Duitse aanvoerlijnen aanvielen. Er waren geen Joodse soldaten in het Duitse leger die deserteerden naar de vijanden.
Een groot deel van de militaire infrastructuur in Turkije was aangelegd door die Armeense arbeidsbataljons. Dezelfde wegen werden gruwelijk genoeg erna gebruikt om hun vrouwen, ouders en kinderen te deporteren hun dood tegemoet.
Lijkt me reden genoeg om te deserteren/vluchten. Een land dat zo met zijn onderdanen omgaat zuiver op grond van hun achtergrond, verdient het niet om gediend te worden.quote:"De Armeniërs zijn, in plaats van hun land te dienen als artilleristen en cavaleristen (...) omgevormd tot wegwerkers en pakezels. allerlei legervoorraden werden op hun rug geladen en terwijl ze voortstrompelden onder hun lasten en voortgedreven werden door de zwepen en bajonetten van de Turken, werden ze gedwongen om hun vermoeide lichamen naar de bergen van de Kaukasus te slepen"
(Morgenthau "Ambasador Morgenthau's Story, page 302)
"..dat Armeniërs geen dienst [mogen] doen in het leger, nite in de mobiele afdelingen en ook niet in de mobiele en staande eenheden van de gendarmerie, en evenmin in de gelederen van het legerhoofdkwartier"
(Telegram van Enver Pasha; Askeri Tarih Belgeleri Dergisi, ermeni Belgeleri Özel Sayisi 3 34, nr 85 (Ekim/oktober 1985), docnr 1999)
"In bijna alle gevallen ging met op dezelfde manier te werk. Hier en daar werden ploegen van 50 of 100 man geformeerd die in groepjes van vier werden vastgebonden en vervolgens werden afgemarcheerd naar een afgezonderde plek vlak bij het dorp. Plotseling klonk er het geluid van geweerschoten, en de Turkse soldaten die als escorte hadden gediend keerden met norse gezichten terug naar het kamp (...) In sommige gevallen hadden de moordenaars het lijden van hun slachtoffers nog vergroot door hen te dwingen hun eigen graf te graven voordat ze werden doodgeschoten”
(Morgenthau, 302-303)
Zoals L_V al liet zien: ja.quote:Bovendien waren er in het Ottomaanse TOT de oorlog EN tijdens de oorlog Armeense soldaten in dienst van het Ottomaanse leger. Armeniers hadden zelfs ministersposten in het Ottomaanse rijk. Is dit in Nazi Duitsland voorstelbaar?
Tevens hebben de nazi's in de jaren voor de oorlog duizenden joden uit het leger en het politieke apparaat weggesaneerd, net als in...juistem, het Ottomaanse Rijk.
De vergelijking gaat dus op veel fronten op. Terecht dat je je er dood voor schaamt, die gelijkenis
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Mwanatabu op 17-04-2010 18:31:53 ]
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Jammer dat sommige Turken niet verder kijken dan hun neus lang is. De Armeense genocide heeft wel degelijk plaatsgevonden. Het is alleen iets van twee kanten geweest, maar omdat Armenië natuurlijk veel kleiner is kan er eerder gesproken worden van een genocide, want in verhouding zijn er veel meer Armenen gestorven dan Turken.
Ik snap echt niet waar dat Turkse superioriteitsgevoel vandaan komt.
Ik snap echt niet waar dat Turkse superioriteitsgevoel vandaan komt.
In plaats van een Turken hatende journalist Robert Fisk te citeren kun je beteren naar wat een groot historicus als Bernard Lewis te zeggen heeft. Luister naar wat hij van de vergelijking tussen de holocaust en de Armeense "genocide" vindt.quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 16:57 schreef Mwanatabu het volgende:
[..]
Grappig dat je je daar zo aan stoort. De meeste mensen vinden het namelijk iets walgelijker om die tweede Holocaust te ontkennen. Mooie quote hierover trouwens van Robert Fisk:
[..]
[..]
Nee, die waren tegen die tijd al uit het openbare leven weggesneden. Tevens hebben de nazi's destijds de joden buiten het leger uitgeroeid. De Turken hadden de methode om de strijdbare mannen in te lijven in het leger en ze zonder wapens zich dood te laten werken of na het werk te executeren. Mochten ze wel eerst hun eigen graf graven.
Een groot deel van de militaire infrastructuur in Turkije was aangelegd door die Armeense arbeidsbataljons. Dezelfde wegen werden gruwelijk genoeg erna gebruikt om hun vrouwen, ouders en kinderen te deporteren hun dood tegemoet.
[..]
Lijkt me reden genoeg om te deserteren/vluchten. Een land dat zo met zijn onderdanen omgaat zuiver op grond van hun achtergrond, verdient het niet om gediend te worden.
[..]
Zoals L_V al liet zien: ja.
Tevens hebben de nazi's in de jaren voor de oorlog duizenden joden uit het leger en het politieke apparaat weggesaneerd, net als in...juistem, het Ottomaanse Rijk.
De vergelijking gaat dus op veel fronten op. Terecht dat je je er dood voor schaamt, die gelijkenis
Honderden jaren indoctrinatie.quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 19:42 schreef Dila_ het volgende:
Ik snap echt niet waar dat Turkse superioriteitsgevoel vandaan komt.
En de Turken hebben de mazzel dat hun ooit zo grote rijk, nog steeds redelijk in omvang is. Dat is voor de Georgiers, de Armenen en de Azeri wel anders.
Vandaar de onderlinge haat in de regio. Wel een ongelooflijk mooi gebied.
The only limit is your own imagination
Ik ben niet gelovig aangelegd en maak daarin geen onderscheid tussen dominees, imams, scharenslieps, autohandelaren, politici en massamedia
Waarom er geen vliegtuig in het WTC vloog
Ik ben niet gelovig aangelegd en maak daarin geen onderscheid tussen dominees, imams, scharenslieps, autohandelaren, politici en massamedia
Waarom er geen vliegtuig in het WTC vloog
Weer iemand die de bewijzen in deze topic niet gelezen heeft. De Armeense "genocide" is het grootste verzinsel van de 20e eeuw. Lees de eerste bladzijde van de topic.quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 19:42 schreef Dila_ het volgende:
Jammer dat sommige Turken niet verder kijken dan hun neus lang is. De Armeense genocide heeft wel degelijk plaatsgevonden. Het is alleen iets van twee kanten geweest, maar omdat Armenië natuurlijk veel kleiner is kan er eerder gesproken worden van een genocide, want in verhouding zijn er veel meer Armenen gestorven dan Turken.
Ik snap echt niet waar dat Turkse superioriteitsgevoel vandaan komt.
Zeg dat eens recht in het gezicht van een Armeen, mannetje. Kijken of je nog zo'n grote bek hebt.quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 19:45 schreef polderturk het volgende:
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Weer iemand die de bewijzen in deze topic niet gelezen heeft. De Armeense "genocide" is het grootste verzinsel van de 20e eeuw. Lees de eerste bladzijde van de topic.
The only limit is your own imagination
Ik ben niet gelovig aangelegd en maak daarin geen onderscheid tussen dominees, imams, scharenslieps, autohandelaren, politici en massamedia
Waarom er geen vliegtuig in het WTC vloog
Ik ben niet gelovig aangelegd en maak daarin geen onderscheid tussen dominees, imams, scharenslieps, autohandelaren, politici en massamedia
Waarom er geen vliegtuig in het WTC vloog
Nou nee, de mate van organisatie, voorbereiding en vooropgezetheid is het verschil, niet het aantal slachtoffers. In de conventie van '48 wordt dit als zodanig gedefinieerd:quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 19:42 schreef Dila_ het volgende:
Jammer dat sommige Turken niet verder kijken dan hun neus lang is. De Armeense genocide heeft wel degelijk plaatsgevonden. Het is alleen iets van twee kanten geweest, maar omdat Armenië natuurlijk veel kleiner is kan er eerder gesproken worden van een genocide, want in verhouding zijn er veel meer Armenen gestorven dan Turken.
Ik snap echt niet waar dat Turkse superioriteitsgevoel vandaan komt.
Staat niks over aantallen in.quote:any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: 'Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; and forcibly transferring children of the group to another group'.
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Ik wil iedereen nogmaals laten weten dat het officiele Armeense verhaal het volgende is:
- Armeniers hebben geen Turken afgeslacht (bewezen als leugen)
- Turken hebben 1,5 miljoen Armeniers vermoord (bewezen als leugen)
De waarheid?
Er zijn 300.000 Armeniers overleden.
(het bewijs hiervoor: 1,3 miljoen Armeniers voor de oorlog, na de oorlog nog zeker 1 miljoen Armeniers in leven, ik heb Mwanatabu dit duidelijk gemaakt en aangegeven dat buitenlandse tellingen uitgaan van tussen de 1 miljoen en 1,5 miljoen Armeniers)
Er was een grote georganiseerde Armeense opstand waarbij 500.000 Turken en Koerden door Armeniers zijn afgeslacht. Dit heb ik met verschillende bronnen hier aangetoond.
- Armeniers hebben geen Turken afgeslacht (bewezen als leugen)
- Turken hebben 1,5 miljoen Armeniers vermoord (bewezen als leugen)
De waarheid?
Er zijn 300.000 Armeniers overleden.
(het bewijs hiervoor: 1,3 miljoen Armeniers voor de oorlog, na de oorlog nog zeker 1 miljoen Armeniers in leven, ik heb Mwanatabu dit duidelijk gemaakt en aangegeven dat buitenlandse tellingen uitgaan van tussen de 1 miljoen en 1,5 miljoen Armeniers)
Er was een grote georganiseerde Armeense opstand waarbij 500.000 Turken en Koerden door Armeniers zijn afgeslacht. Dit heb ik met verschillende bronnen hier aangetoond.
O, heb je dat de afgelopen dagen gedaan?
The crowning attainment of historical study is a historical sense - an intuitive understanding of how things do not happen. - Lewis Namier
Je zult moeten toegeven; Turken zijn enorm goed in naaien en (op)poetsen...quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 20:00 schreef TitusPullo het volgende:
O, heb je dat de afgelopen dagen gedaan?
The only limit is your own imagination
Ik ben niet gelovig aangelegd en maak daarin geen onderscheid tussen dominees, imams, scharenslieps, autohandelaren, politici en massamedia
Waarom er geen vliegtuig in het WTC vloog
Ik ben niet gelovig aangelegd en maak daarin geen onderscheid tussen dominees, imams, scharenslieps, autohandelaren, politici en massamedia
Waarom er geen vliegtuig in het WTC vloog
Lewis is van alle kanten afgeschoten op het wetenschappelijk toneel om zijn mening over de Armeense Genocide. Hij is zelfs om die uitspraken in een Franse krant vervolgd en veroordeeld omdat hij zijn claim "dat er geen serieus bewijs was voor de genocide":quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 19:44 schreef polderturk het volgende:
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In plaats van een Turken hatende journalist Robert Fisk te citeren kun je beteren naar wat een groot historicus als Bernard Lewis te zeggen heeft. Luister naar wat hij van de vergelijking tussen de holocaust en de Armeense "genocide" vindt.
Grappig trouwens dat je hem als "groot historicus" typeert zuiver omdat deze westerse niet-Turk het toevallig eens met het Turkse standpunt eens is, en de rest van de westerse niet-Turkse historici door jou onverminderd afgedaan worden als bevooroordeeld en niet-geldige bron.quote:"it is only by hiding elements which go against his thesis that the defendant was able to state that there was no 'serious proof' of the Armenian Genocide; consequently, he failed in his duties of objectivity and prudence by expressing himself without qualification on such a sensitive subject"
(Engelse vertaling van het Franse vonnis: http://www.voltairenet.org/article14133.html)
Typisch denialisme, zoals ik al eerder aanhaalde in dit topic:
Tevens weer een vergelijk met de joodse Holocaust:quote:Moving the goalpost:
Dismissing evidence presented in response to a specific claim by continually demanding some other (often greater) piece of evidence. In other words, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt. Thus denialists use the absence of complete and absolute knowledge to prevent the implementation of sound policies, or the acceptance of an idea or theory.
url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism]Denialism[/url]
Begint het al bekend te klinken?quote:The key claims of Holocaust deniers are:The Nazis had no official policy or intention of exterminating Jews.
Er is geen officieel bevel gevonden vanuit Turkse hoek, het was toeval en omstandighedenNazis did not use gas chambers to mass murder Jews.
Het was geen genocide maar deportatieThe figure of 5 to 7 million Jewish deaths is a gross exaggeration, and the actual number is an order of magnitude lower.
Het waren maar 300.000 Armeniërs
Other claims include the following:Stories of the Holocaust were a myth initially created by the Allies of World War II to demonize Germans. Jews spread this myth as part of a grander plot intended to enable the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, and now to garner continuing support for the state of Israel.
De Genocide is verzonnen door de Armeniërs om de Turken te demoniseren en om een Groot Armenië te stichtenDocumentary evidence of the Holocaust, from photographs to the Diary of Anne Frank, is fabricated.
Bewijs voor de Armeense genocide is door Armeniërs vervalstSurvivor testimonies are filled with errors and inconsistencies, and are thus unreliable.
Die ooggetuigen zijn niet betrouwbaar en hebben het van horen zeggenNazi confessions of war crimes were extracted through torture.[3]
De uitkomst van de militaire tribunalen tellen nietThe Nazi treatment of Jews was no different from what the Allies did to their enemies in World War II.
Zij deden het ook!
Holocaust denialism
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Is nooit beweerd en is ook niet relevant.quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 19:49 schreef polderturk het volgende:
Ik wil iedereen nogmaals laten weten dat het officiele Armeense verhaal het volgende is:
- Armeniers hebben geen Turken afgeslacht (bewezen als leugen)
Bewezen? Jij hebt niks bewezen. Ook niet als je het 10x roept.quote:- Turken hebben 1,5 miljoen Armeniers vermoord (bewezen als leugen)
Goh toevallig zeg, dat ze allemaal tegelijk overleden.quote:De waarheid?
Er zijn 300.000 Armeniers overleden.
Nee, dat heb je niet. Ik heb beargumenteerd met bronnen waarom de Ottomaanse tellingen niet kunnen kloppen en waarom en wanneer de aantallen door verschillende buitenlandse instellingen zijn vastgesteld. Buitenlandse tellingen gaan onveranderlijk uit van tussen de 800.000 en 1,5 miljoen slachtoffers.quote:(het bewijs hiervoor: 1,3 miljoen Armeniers voor de oorlog, na de oorlog nog zeker 1 miljoen Armeniers in leven, ik heb Mwanatabu dit duidelijk gemaakt en aangegeven dat buitenlandse tellingen uitgaan van tussen de 1 miljoen en 1,5 miljoen Armeniers)
Je hebt geen organisatie of centrale orkestratie aangetoond. Tevens is het getal niet te onderbouwen.quote:Er was een grote georganiseerde Armeense opstand waarbij 500.000 Turken en Koerden door Armeniers zijn afgeslacht. Dit heb ik met verschillende bronnen hier aangetoond.
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Over de betrouwbaarheid van de Ottomaanse cijfers:
quote:The Turkish author Kâzım Kadri writes, “During the reign of Abdul Hamid we lowered the population figures of the Armenians...” He adds, “By the order of Abdul Hamid the number of the Armenians deliberately had been put in low figures.”
Hüseyin Kâzım Kadri, Balkanlardan Hicaza: Imparatorlugun Tasfiyesi. 10 Temmuz Inkilâbı ve Netayici, Istanbul: Pınar, 1992. Originally published in Ottoman Turkish in 1920 in Istanbul by Islam and Askeri Publishers. p. 126, 133; in the original Ottoman version, p. 116, 123. Cited as well in Vahakn N. Dadrian, Warrant for Genocide p. 173
quote:In the district of Mus (compromising Mus plain, Sassoun, and the counties of Mus) for example, the Armenian official in charge of the census, Garabed Potigian, presented the official figures as 225,000 Armenians and 55,000 Turks. Upon the insistence of his Turkish superiors he was forced to reduce the Armenian population to 105,000 and increase the Turkish population to 95,000.
Cairo: Sahag-Mesrob, 1962 p. 22 for such undercounting examples. Also cited in Vahakn N. Dadrian, Warrant for Genocide [notes 13] p. 187
quote:Fa'iz El-Ghusein, the Kaimakam of Kharpout, wrote in his book, that according to the Ottoman official statistics there were about 1,9 million Armenian's in the Ottoman Empire
El-Ghusein, Fà'iz (1917). Martyred Armenia. p. 7.
quote:The Ottomans do not have a definite number. That is, we have in our hands contradictory numbers regarding the Armenian population within the borders of the Ottoman Empire. I would think that Basmacıyan gives the most accurate number. This is to be between two and three million.
Dr. Secil Akgun, Hurriyet, April 27, 1987
Gek zeg, honderdduizenden slachtoffers en nog geen deukje in de Ottomaanse statistieken. Gelukkig heb ik het woord van polderturk dat de cijfers betrouwbaar zijn, anders zou ik als wetenschapper toch ernstig gaan twijfelenquote:Another problem arises, and it is the fact that the Ottoman census statistics have maintained constant increase for the Armenian population from the period where between 1894–1897, an estimated 100,000 to 300,000 Armenians lost their lives during the Hamidian massacres. While the minimum in the range represent the Armenian increases of population over years, the 1905 census hasn't shown any anomaly of Armenian increases, which suggest that there might have been a fixed quota of Armenian population, and that regardless of the census, there were much more Armenians within the Empire.
If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team
Beste Mwanatabu. Ik vraag me af of jij een plaat voor je hoofd hebt. Ik zal je nogmaals aantonen dat het niet alleen om Turkse tellingen gaat, maar ook om buitenlandse tellingen:quote:Op zaterdag 17 april 2010 20:34 schreef Mwanatabu het volgende:
Over de betrouwbaarheid van de Ottomaanse cijfers:
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Gek zeg, honderdduizenden slachtoffers en nog geen deukje in de Ottomaanse statistieken. Gelukkig heb ik het woord van polderturk dat de cijfers betrouwbaar zijn, anders zou ik als wetenschapper toch ernstig gaan twijfelen
Het bewijs dat er geen 1,5 miljoen Armeniers omgekomen zijn:
Hier is een lijst van de tellingen van de Armeniërs in het Ottomaanse Rijk van die tijd:
-Volgens het Franse Gele Boek: 1.555.000;
-Volgens de Encyclopedia Brittanica: 1.500.000;
-Volgens Constenson: 1.400.000,
-Volgens Lynch: 1.345.000;
-Volgens de officiële Ottomaanse volkstelling van 1914: 1.295.000;
-Volgens het Jaarlijkse Register (Londen); 1.056.000.
Zoals je kunt zien fluctueren de cijfers van westerse bronnen tussen de 1 miljoen en 1,5 miljoen Armeniërs die in het rijk woonden. De Ottomaanse tellingen liggen er met hun 1.295.000 in het midden. Voor belastingtechnische redenen was het voor de Turken belangrijk zo goed mogelijk het aantal Armeense inwoners te weten. De Turken hebben dus volgens de Armeniërs meer Armeniërs omgebracht dan dat er Armeniërs waren. De Turken waren dus zo wreed dat ze veel Armeniërs meerdere malen vermoord hebben. Bogos Noubar, het hoofd van de Armeense delegatie op de Vredesconferentie van Parijs, verklaarde dat er na de oorlog nog 280.000 Armeniërs in Turkije leefden en dat 700.000 Armeniërs waren gemigreerd naar andere landen. Volgens de schatting van Bogos Noubar, bedroeg de totale Armeense bevolking van voor de oorlog 1.300.000. Het aantal Armeense slachtoffers kan dus nooit boven de 300.000 zijn geweest.
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