Puriteins Fox News haalt Nederland door het slijk...

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Holland is a perfect example of what happens when there is no governing moral standard. The Dutch have decriminalized most drugs and people smoke dope openly in venues set aside for the practice. Prostitutes display their wares like mannequins in department store windows. And now we have at least one hospital murdering already born babies because someone has decreed them unworthy of life.

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Op dinsdag 7 december 2004 23:26 schreef Elusive het volgende:
Fox news 'nuff said

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Op dinsdag 7 december 2004 23:36 schreef Frenkie het volgende:
Ik ga em even mailen

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Op dinsdag 7 december 2004 23:22 schreef Tessje het volgende:
Hij lijkt wel op Sadam

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Op dinsdag 7 december 2004 23:42 schreef Sjaakman het volgende:

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Een net mailtje zodat ze wellicht gaan antwoorden, of een ouderwetsche flame?

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And now we have the killing of newborns. All of this in a country where the Nazis murdered Ann Frank just because she was Jewish and therefore less than human.

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Hello,

Maybe it would have been wise to check some facts before you mingle them into your story. Please allow me to correct the most bothering amongst them.

Anne Frank wasn't murdered in The Netherlands, she was murdered in Germany. Holland is a region in The Netherlands.

Furthermore, I think it would have been useful to include an explanation of 'the arbritrary standard' that you mention at the beginning of your column. This 'standard' is a terminal stage of life, with no prospect of improvement or decrease in suffering.

Basically, what you refer to as murder, is no more than saving a newborn baby from a short perios of suffering, before dying anyway. Which option do you consider to be the least cruel one?

And the non-repressive stance toward drugs is known to cause low rates of drug use in this country. It's a shame you didn't know this when criticising our policy.

Prostitution is something that has existed forever, and will never dissappear. What the Dutch laws attemt to do is provide a safe and healthy environment for the women to work in, and gain control over any criminal acts that often occur alongside of prostitution.

I hope you will correct the factual mistakes in your column, but I'm pretty sure that it is not going to happen. Fox News and the people that work for it are already known to be objectivity's worst enimy. Maybe you can convince me otherwise.

Yours Sincerely,

/me

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I can understand why some people have objections to the Dutch laws about
euthanasia, even though I do not agree with those people. Foreign media,
especially conservative media, do not usually point out the lengthy
discussions in Dutch society and parliament that preceded the laws. Doctors
who practice it have to adhere to a very strict set of rules. The docters
who euthanise newborns adhere to virtually the same set of rules, with one
exception: instead of consulting with the patient (who's obviously incapable
of talking), they consult with the parents. People don't make this kind of
decision light-heartedly, it is an often painful and lengthy process. It has
nothing to do with declassifying a -quote- single category of life (...) as
having no intrinsic value and a right to life -unquote-, it has to do with
mercy. Dutch euthanesia laws were drawn up because we value life. We believe
that nobody should be forced to suffer life, just because somebody else
thinks that having to live is more valuable than how a patient has to
survive that life. The babies are not killed because they are deemed
unworthy, they are killed out of mercy, because it is very clear to their
parents and their doctors that they will never have a life (no matter how
short or long it may be) without pain. I cannot imagine a parent that will
under any circumstance be so selfish to put his believe in life above the
pain and suffering of his or her child, knowing it will ultimately die of
those pains anyway. No young parent will make such a decision easily, and
certainly not without great grief, and you are doing them great injustice by
ridiculing them into being light hearted murderers.

By comparing the issue with the horrors of Nazi-Germany, where decisions
about life and death in the concentration camps were made litterally at the
blink of an eye at the entrance of the camps, does the subject no justice.
Putting Anne Frank (notice his incorrect spelling of her name) into the
story to "prove" how righteous he is, is silly. Not only was Anne Frank not
murdered in Holland (she died in a concentration camp in what is now
Poland), she was murdered by the hands of the people she was born to:
Germans. Anne Frank and her family were German jewish refugees in The
Netherlands and had been hidden by Dutchmen for a few years. Had he read her
diary, he would have known that. If he did read it, he must have
conveniently have "forgotten" it to "prove" his point.

Singling out The Netherlands ("Holland" is actually two provinces of the
country) as having no moral standard because of decriminalising some (and
not "most") drugs, and having publicly accessible areas where prostitutes (a
profession which is legal here, because Europeans in general, and especially
the Dutch, are much more open minded when it comes to sex) work does not do
my country justice. I'm pretty sure your readers would be greatly offended
if I write something similar about the United States, claiming you have no
moral values because of the legal right to posess arms (and in some case
even permitting manslaughter) for every citizen (we are not even allowed to
have any weapon). Or because the United States is the largest producer of
porn in the world. Or because the United States kills people by order of a
judge (we don't have the death penalty). Or because the number of baby-moms
(kids having kids) in your country is the highest in the industrial world
(and ours one of the the lowest in the entire world). Or because you have
people living in ghetto's, with people living on food stamps and donations
by charity. Or because...

Referring to the brutal assasination of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh to
prove his point about us is the most ridiculous of all. It has nothing to do
with values that we are lacking. It has to do with something the United
States are all too familiar with: discrimmination of minorities. Exactly
because Dutch lawmakers tried to avoid what Mr Thomas accuses us of
(racially inspired lawmaking to keep the "unwanted" out), my country had a
very open policy when it came to admitting foreigners. We have tried
everything but force people to adopt "our ways". In hindsight we could, and
probably should, have been more strict. But that would have gone against our
beliefs, we have a history of several centuries of harbouring people that
fled their homes for all kinds of reasons. We harboured Jewish immigrants
from Portugal. We harboured people from all over Europe for their religious
(read: non-catholic) beliefs. Your Founding Fathers left for what is now the
United States of America from my country, because they feared my country (a
safe haven) would be overrun and they would have to fear for their lives and
beliefs again. Fact of the matter is that the recent problems in The
Netherlands could have happened anywhere in Europe. Belgium, France and
Germany have similar problems with their minorities, and so do other
countries in Western Europe. And in part the USA are responsible for it,
because much of the radicalisation has to do with anti-American sentiments
caused by your foreign policies.
Mr. Van Gogh's assasin was, until a few years ago, a valued member of
society. A young man on his way to a great carreer, a fine example of
someone who was assimilated. When his mother died a few years ago, he turned
to his religion for consolance. Many people, Christians, Jews and Muslims
alike, do so under similar circumstances. At his weakest, his defenses down,
he got caught in a trap set by Islamic fundamentalists, paid for by very
wealthy people living in a country that is an ally of the United States:
Saudi Arabia. They brainwashed him during religious classes, and made him a
fundamentalist.

Mr Thomas, I hope you take off your blindfolds. Come see what Europe in
general, and The Netherlands in particular, have offered and continue to
offer the world. Notice for instance that The Netherlands has for decades
used at least 0,7% of it's national income for development work in the
underprivileged world. That is just the bit the Government is paying, NGOs
combined send yet more. How's that for a country that has no moral standard?
FYI: none of the G7 nations provide that much of their national income. I
believe the USA is one of those nations.

Nazi-Germany fed it's people with biased "news" and propaganda to fit it's
own goals.

Does history repeat? In the USA, apparently it does.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 00:32 schreef RonaldV het volgende:
Mail verstuurd om te laten weten hoe beledigd ik me voel en daarna beschaafd al zijn punten onderuit getikt.
[..]

Niet dat ze de moed hebben om de reacties te posten trouwens, ik kon er geen vinden iig.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 00:42 schreef HeyFreak het volgende:

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da's een mooi staaltje engels...

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 01:00 schreef HeyFreak het volgende:
enig idee waar dat euthenasie op babies gebaseerd is?

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 01:00 schreef HeyFreak het volgende:
enig idee waar dat euthenasie op babies gebaseerd is?

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 00:42 schreef HeyFreak het volgende:

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da's een mooi staaltje engels...

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Ondersteunt de NVVE ook ouders en artsen bij vragen rondom leven en dood van pasgeborenen?

Neen, de NVVE houdt zich bezig met vragen rondom levensbeëindiging op verzoek (euthanasie en hulp bij zelfdoding). Een pasgeborene kan niet om levensbeëindiging vragen en er kan dus geen sprake zijn van euthanasie.

Toch komen er in de praktijk van de gezondheidszorg complexe en moeilijke situaties voor met betrekking tot de medische behandeling van pasgeborenen. Het gaat dan met name om gevallen waarin ten aanzien van ernstig zieke of gehandicapte pasgeboren vragen ontstaan rondom leven en dood. Ouders en artsen kunnen hiervoor terecht bij de Stichting Dilemma. Informatie is te vinden bij de Nederlandse Vereniging voor Kindergeneeskunde.

De stichting beschikt over een netwerk van deskundigen. Deze deskundigen zijn bereid ouders en/of hulpverleners te woord te staan. De door de stichting verleende hulp is gratis.

Stichting Dilemma is permanent telefonisch bereikbaar onder nummer: 030 - 287 19 00. Binnen kantooruren wordt men persoonlijk te woord gestaan en daarbuiten kan men een boodschap inspreken op een antwoordapparaat. Dit antwoordapparaat wordt zeer regelmatig afgeluisterd, zodat men snel zal worden teruggebeld

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 01:09 schreef Verbal het volgende:

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Er is vorige week een soort morele veroordeling vanuit het Vaticaan gekomen over een ziekenhuis in Groningen dat baby's zou afmaken alsof het legbatterijkippen zijn. Wellicht dat dat het is.

Hier het bericht

V.

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Op dinsdag 7 december 2004 22:55 schreef Sjaakman het volgende:
Ik heb de indruk dat de man hier nog NOOIT is geweest, en alleen verhalen heeft gehoord uit de vierde hand ofzo.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 01:45 schreef Xebrozius het volgende:
Hahahaha, wat wereldschokkend
Maar wat vinden we de provocerende columns van de Spits crew gaaf en wat kunnen we lachen als Bush wordt afgeschildert als een maffe clown die een marionet is van de oliemaatschappijen.
En die g-e-n-i-a-l-e columns van Theo van Gogh dan!
Man, wat hadden we een eerbied voor zijn pure provocaties en drogredeneringen...
Maar kom je aan Nederland, dan ga je opeens een stap te ver.
Stelletje kleindenkende kortzichtige Nederlandse heikneuters.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 01:54 schreef heiden6 het volgende:
Dat geldt natuurlijk ook voor de Spits ( ) en dergelijke. Het is gewoon bagger. In dit geval zijn veel mensen hier het er gewoon niet mee eens, dat is het verschil.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 02:25 schreef Dagonet het volgende:
Ja maar Xebro, Theo (vzmh) is heilig en deze Amerikaan schrijft aperte leugens!

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 02:24 schreef Xebrozius het volgende:
Toen ons aller geliefde Theo columns schreef zag ik nooit zulke verontwaardigde reacties op zijn site staan.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 02:43 schreef Insomaniac het volgende:
Ik heb m een mailtje gestuurd. Hij mag bij me komen logeren, onze verwerpelijke hoeren uittesten en samen jointje roken.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 02:45 schreef Dagonet het volgende:

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Je vergeet de euthanasie nog, of bewaar je die tot het laatst?

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 00:32 schreef RonaldV het volgende:
Mail verstuurd om te laten weten hoe beledigd ik me voel en daarna beschaafd al zijn punten onderuit getikt.
[..]

Niet dat ze de moed hebben om de reacties te posten trouwens, ik kon er geen vinden iig.

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"Hello,

I have read your column about the Dutch. Quite enjoyable, I dare say, even more so because there are some serious errors in there. I'll point them out one at a time.

You wrote: " A Dutch hospital is euthanizing — killing — newborn babies who don't measure up to an arbitrary standard set by the hospital. " I would like to know, as I do not even know this 'fact' myself, two things. A: Which hospital. (Or in which town is it situated will do.) is this? And B: Why would they do so? Even though Holland has a lot of atheists, I myself being one, they also value life. If this is true and presented to the public, I know, because I know the Dutch, that nearly all will say that is has to stop.

You wrote: " Once a single category of life is declassified as having no intrinsic value and a right to life, it is a very short step to declassify other categories when they are considered inconvenient, or burdensome. " This is true, I must agree, but in this context, there is no proof it is true about Holland. Yes, we do have the euthanizing of patients who are beyond cure. And even that is bound to strict regulations, although it is possible. In Holland, the government has obviously introduced this, but that government was way different from the ones who are there now. Now, we have a, for our standards, central-right government. (Which is about 'left' in the USA, because I deem them to be the same as the Democrats.) But back then, we had a central government, compareable with no American party, really, save a mixture of Nader and Democrats.

Drugs, some drugs, are legal in Holland, yes. But the funny part is, you can legally smoke the 'dope', as you called it, but you cannot legally sell it on the streets."

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Op dinsdag 7 december 2004 23:19 schreef flyin-hawk het volgende:
ik ben het gedeeltelijk met hem eens maar niet met alles.
[..]

hiermee heeft hij wel een punt vind ik, iets wat wel krom is in mijn ogen in Nederland

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 01:45 schreef Xebrozius het volgende:
Hahahaha, wat wereldschokkend
Maar wat vinden we de provocerende columns van de Spits crew gaaf en wat kunnen we lachen als Bush wordt afgeschildert als een maffe clown die een marionet is van de oliemaatschappijen.
En die g-e-n-i-a-l-e columns van Theo van Gogh dan!
Man, wat hadden we een eerbied voor zijn pure provocaties en drogredeneringen...
Maar kom je aan Nederland, dan ga je opeens een stap te ver.
Stelletje kleindenkende kortzichtige Nederlandse heikneuters.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 01:34 schreef Karboenkeltje het volgende:
Ach, het is gewoon een opiniestuk... wat maakt dat nou uit? Het is erger dat hij steeds "Holland" schreef, dat zijn slechts een paar provincietjes. Deze natie heet "the Netherlands", stomme Amerikaan!

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 10:31 schreef HarigeKerel het volgende:

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Nou nee dommie, met "The Netherlands" doelt men op het koninkrijk der Nederlanden en dat is hier niet het geval, in de andere onderdelen van ons koninkrijk is dit namelijk niet van toepassing.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 10:33 schreef RonaldV het volgende:


Er zijn geen hoeren en coffeeshops op de Antillen?

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Waarom gaan die Yanks er dan zo graag naartoe

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 10:37 schreef HarigeKerel het volgende:

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Geen coffeeshops en geen euthanasie op baby's nee.
[..]

Meestal gaan ze naar Aruba, en daar gaan ze heen omdat het mooi, veilig en gevuld met vriendelijke mensen is

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 10:31 schreef HarigeKerel het volgende:

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Nou nee dommie, met "The Netherlands" doelt men op het koninkrijk der Nederlanden

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 11:54 schreef Posdnous het volgende:
FOX-news De Bush-propaganda zender

Denk je dat die lui geven om een mailtje wat je terugstuurt? Zij hebben hun mening en dat is de juiste, precies zoals Bush te werk gaat dus. Valt verder niet mee te praten.

Hilarisch stukje trouwens Gewoon eentje die precies zo geschreven is als de rest van de rechtse Amerikaanse 'nieuws'berichtgeving, maar nu het over Nederland gaat is opeens iedereen op de kast gejaagd .

Nu voel je ook eens hoe het is. Bij andere landen is dit zo een paar jaar doorgegaan en dan op een steeds hoger niveau, totdat ze opeens zeggen dat je ergens Weapons of Massdestriuction hebt en je dat moet bewijzen en dan vallen ze binnen .

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 12:08 schreef RonaldV het volgende:

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Die wet is een paar jaar geleden al aangenomen, en je hoeft er niet eens WMDs voro te hebben. Eën Amerikaanse soldaat is genoeg. We zijn het enige land waarvoor de VS een speciale wet hebben aangenomen: de American Servicemembers Protection Act, beter bekend als de The Hague Invasion Act.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 12:10 schreef Posdnous het volgende:

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Klopt, maar dan moet er eerst wel iets gebeuren wat hen niet bevalt of iig een fatsoenlijk 'gemaakte' aanleiding zou kunnen zijn, anders hebben ze de hele wereld achter zich aan.

Desinformatie en propaganda zijn hiervoor meestal wel prima werkende middelen .

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 11:46 schreef Karboenkeltje het volgende:


Nee. Op de natie Nederland. Eventueel incluis koloniën maar dat doet niet terzake. De aanduiding "Holland" voor Nederland (als land of koninkrijk) is in elke taal onjuist.

Er bestaat beslist geen soevereine staat genaamd Holland.

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"In Texas we have the death penalty and we use it. That's right, if you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back!"

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 10:29 schreef RonaldV het volgende:

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Schrijf eens iets soortgelijks over Amerikanen, en je hebt het halve Amerikaanse volk over je heen. De zelfverheerlijking van Amerikanen loopt voor een groot deel via dit soort verdraaide en soms zelfs leugenachtige stukjes. Als je claimt het morele gelijk aan je kant te hebben moet je zorgen dat je feiten kloppen. Zijn feiten kloppen van geen kant. Punt. Columnisten in Nederland worden ook aangepakt wanneer hun verhalen niet kloppen, waarom zou dat in dit geval getuigen van heikneuterigheid?

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 12:55 schreef Xebrozius het volgende:
We hebben het hier niet over journalistiek, columns zijn subjectieve meningen die daardoor helemaal niet op feiten gebaseerd dienen te zijn...

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 13:57 schreef Lod het volgende:

ik neem aan dat je bedoelt: "niet op feiten gebaseerd hoeven te zijn". Je impliceert nu dat je subjectieve meningen niet mag baseren op feiten.
Verder vind ik het wel vermakelijk, een typisch geval van de pot verwijt de ketel. Net zoals we hier in Nederland ook redelijk bevooroordeelt meteen een mening hebben over Amerika.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 15:15 schreef WheeleE het volgende:
Heeft iemand al een reactie terug gehad van deze mijnheer?
Zijn column nodigt zeer zeker uti tot het al dat niet grofmondig rechtzetten van zijn waanbeelden.
Ik heb echter het idee dat hij gewoon niet beter weet...kromgeluld en sufgemaakt door de politiek zeg maar.

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Op dinsdag 7 december 2004 23:22 schreef Tessje het volgende:
Hij lijkt wel op Sadam

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 16:51 schreef Lupa_Solitaria het volgende:
Die zogenaamde glijdende schaal doet zich volgens mij helemaal niet voor. Waar het gaat om het euthanaseren van baby's zeker niet. Dit gebeurt alleen maar als het zeker is dat het kind binnen afzienbare tijd tòch zal overlijden en binnen die resterende tijd enorm zal lijden.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 17:32 schreef Kentaro het volgende:
De meeste ouders zullen het belang van het kind wel laten meewegen echter er is zeker een groep die eigen belang toch wel zwaarder laten wegen en dan heb ik het nog niet eens over de echte idioten die nu al kinderen in portieken neerleggen etc.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 17:40 schreef Lupa_Solitaria het volgende:

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Ik denk dat zulke dingen doorgaans niet door idioten gedaan worden, maar door wanhopige mensen die de weg even helemaal kwijt zijn...

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 17:45 schreef Kentaro het volgende:
maar hopen dan dat ze niet 'even de weg helemaal kwijt zijn' als de arts vraagt of ze zeker zijn van de euthenasie op hun kind

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 17:48 schreef Lupa_Solitaria het volgende:

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Sorry, hoor, maar een euthanasie wordt niet in een opwelling uitgevoerd. Bij euthanasie op neonatalen zijn doorgaans hele teams van medici betrokken, en het is niet zo dat die gewoon maar meteen doen wat de ouders zeggen... Ik vind dat je een beetje vreemd aan het discussiëren bent nu.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 17:53 schreef Kentaro het volgende:
rustig maar, was sarcastisch bedoelt. Jou reactie over dat het geen idioten zijn maar mensen die de weg kwijt is is helemaal waar maar doet niets af aan mijn punt dat niet alle ouder het belang van hun kind voorop stellen. zo beter

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Hello,

I have read your column about the Dutch. Quite enjoyable, I dare say, even more so because there are some serious errors in there. I'll point them out one at a time.

You wrote: " A Dutch hospital is euthanizing — killing — newborn babies who don't measure up to an arbitrary standard set by the hospital. " I would like to know, one thing. Why would they do so, why would the hospital kill babies 'who do not measure up to a certain standard'? Even though Holland has a lot of atheists, I myself being one, they also value life. They will only do so when the baby will die anyway, I presume. And the parents will still have a say. If the parents wish the child to live, so be it. In truth, I think that, out of the 100 times the question 'euthanize the baby?', is asked, only 4 or so times will there be an answer which states that it should be done.

You wrote: " Once a single category of life is declassified as having no intrinsic value and a right to life, it is a very short step to declassify other categories when they are considered inconvenient, or burdensome. " This is true, I must agree, but in this context, there is no proof it is true about Holland. Yes, we do have the euthanizing of patients who are beyond cure. And even that is bound to strict regulations, although it is possible. In Holland, the government has obviously introduced this, but that government was way different from the ones who are there now. Now, we have a, for our standards, central-right government. (Which is about 'left' in the USA, because I deem them to be the same as the Democrats.) But back then, we had a central government, comparable with no American party, really, save a mixture of Nader and Democrats. Different times, different governments.

Drugs, some drugs, are legal in Holland, yes. But the funny part is, you can legally smoke the 'dope', as you called it, but you cannot legally sell it on the streets. Twisted, one could say, and very strange. I do not get the point, either. But to think that all Dutch, as you imply, perhaps not willingly, smoke dope, is wrong. Although some of the youth may think 'okay, cool, let's smoke some dope', most of the youth do not agree with that, but since only the bad things come out, this might account for a twisted view. Holland has relatively few accidents with drugs addicts, and the percentage of them is very low as well.

You also say that there are prostitutes in Holland, who display their 'wares like mannequins in department store windows.' You refer to the Red Light District in Amsterdam, that, I am sure of. But doesn't every fairly big town have one, even if it is not out in the open? The Parisian 'Bois de Boulogne' as an example. When you know where to look, one 'gets the job done', if you excuse my pun.

It is true, we are having problems with the open border policy, I am the last to deny it. Verily, it has led to an open hate of Muslims, although not as severe as in Nazi Germany, I, for one, feared a Dutch version of the German 'Kristallnacht', the Night of Broken Glass, I believe it is called in English. But has not every nation had such things, segregation if you wish? I do seem to recollect South Africa, and also the USA. It seems as if it is 'our turn' now.

At the same time, radical 'Whites' are also on the move. In the week after the murder on Theo van Gogh, the filmmaker you refer to in your column, there were, if I recall correctly, five attacks on separate mosque's, each using the infamous Molotov Cocktail or an incendiary bomb. Those Muslims have not assimilated, yet the 'ordinary' Muslims are the victims, because the most have assimilated, save some accents when they speak. (But then again, ever heard our Prime Minister speak English? You should do so, if you wish to have a laugh, it is abysmal, and that is an understatement.)

Furthermore, we have a mayor discussion about freedom of speech right now. But, as someone described to me the other day, on Dutch internet forums, 'there is only freedom of speech for the right-winged'. (With right-winged being a synonym for anti-Muslim.) In this statement, I can see truth in that statement. I am considered very left-wing orientated, and whenever I go into a discussion about Muslims, and I say something which does not go along with the ordinary crowd, I get flamed all the time. Same story if a known Muslim says something. Is this the road Holland is going to take? Now, there's your freedom of speech; only for a selected few. Doesn't that sound a bit like segregation?

And one last point. I see in your column a tad of the Vatican's reprimand to the hospital in question; they think it is killing. The hospital will argue it is not. But what the truth is? One cannot know. But I do agree that it is a slippery slope, and a need for caution is once again there.

What I find worst in your column, is that you, maybe not willingly, compare us to the Nazi's. This is simply not true. The situation in Nazi Germany was very different from our current society. There are but three similarities, one being the economic state of repression, and the other being the fear of others. The third, I have already described, two paragraphs previous. (The Freedom of speech bit.) But we do not take a turn to the extreme, nor have we had a short term of democracy of about 14 years, make that more like 80 years, if you please. Moreover, we have not had a treaty shoved down our throat, and some land taken away in recent years. And there is no propaganda machine at work here; one is not bombed with propaganda here.

I hope you will produce more of such columns in the future, they keep my spirits up, for they are actually funny to see an outsider's view on Holland. But I do hope you will do some research on Holland first, and then make your column, as they would improve it. These are just my views, the views of one being 15 years of age.

Yours Sincerily,

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 18:15 schreef Legolas_Greenleaf het volgende:
Finito.
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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 18:14 schreef Lupa_Solitaria het volgende:

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Ah, okee dan. Maar zelfs als de ouders niet het belang van het kind voorop stellen, zijn er nog mogelijkheden. Er is onlangs een zaak geweest van ouders die uit religieuze overwegingen tegen waren op euthanasie, terwijl hun kind verschrikkelijk leed. Er is een rechtszaak aangespannen en het ziekenhuis heeft gewonnen, het kind mocht sterven. Ik weet helaas niet meer het waar, hoe en wat van die zaak.

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 18:28 schreef Lupa_Solitaria het volgende:
Legolas, ik hoop dat je het niet als een belediging opvat: ik zou na lezing van je brief niet hebben gedacht dat je nog maar 15 bent!

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Op woensdag 8 december 2004 00:32 schreef RonaldV het volgende:
Mail verstuurd om te laten weten hoe beledigd ik me voel en daarna beschaafd al zijn punten onderuit getikt.
[..]

Niet dat ze de moed hebben om de reacties te posten trouwens, ik kon er geen vinden iig.

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Dear mr. Thomas,

I just read your column and i must say i'm shocked by all lies in it.

As for now it seems to me like you have never been to the Netherlands (not: Holland)
and you certainly haven't checked your facts before writing them in your column.

In my opinion, this column can not be taken seriously. I will point out some un-truths
in the text written by you, mr. Thomas.

first there is this text, i'll quote: "A Dutch hospital is euthanizing - killing - newborn babies who don't measure up to an arbitrary standard set by the hospital."

These babies were in fact NOT killed because they 'didn't measure up to an arbitrary standard'. These babies were euthanized because of great respect by the dutch for living a good life without pain. These babies would not have known a single moment of joy in their, very short, lifes and are therefore euthanized. This has, unlike you said, NOTHING to do with an arbitrary standard of ANY kind. There has been a great deal of tlking with the babies parents and it was not the hospital who decided to euthanize them, it was the babies' parents choice.

Holland is a perfect example of what happens when there is no governing moral standard. The Dutch have decriminalized most drugs and people smoke dope openly in venues set aside for the practice.

The moral standard in the Netherlands is a perfect example of a DIFFERENT moral standard than the one the United States have. We have decriminalized SOME drugs (definitely not most) to be able to control the sell of drugs themselves. the republic of the Netherlands is the country in Europe with the lowest amount of drug use. Also drugs are not seen as 'criminal' here, it's seen as a stupid thing to do and the drug user is said to be 'pathetic' and 'weak'.

Drug use in the Netherlands is far less a problem than the problems the US are facing concerning drugs. BECAUSE it is criminalized there, hard drugs (crack) are way more popular in the US than in holland. You get them at the same dealer anyway, and it's much cheaper, right?

The Dutch are now grappling with their open border policy. They have admitted thousands of radical Islamists who have not assimilated and are threatening the stability of the nation

We have indeed done that for quite a few years. This was all because of great mercy to people that do not have the same living standards as the dutch. Unfortunately, some of those people were indeed radical islamists. We realize this and steps are, right now, being taken to avoid any of those problems in the near future.

A Dutch filmmaker (search) was murdered last month by a radical who didn't like a film he made criticizing Islam's treatment of women.

This is, unfortunately, true. The islamic community in the Netherlands however criticize the cruel murder of van Gogh. We are taking this very seriously indeed mister Thomas. This is, however, something that could have happened to any country, not only in Europe but anywhere in the world. The Netherlands are NOT the only country facing these problems
And now we have the killing of newborns. All of this in a country where the Nazis murdered Ann Frank just because she was Jewish and therefore less than human.

Anne Frank was not killed in the Netherlands. She was killed in what we today call Poland. Though comparing the 'killing of the newborns' with the killing of Anne Frank by the germans 50 years ago makes no sense at all. We do not euthanize babies because we think they are 'less than human' but because we deeply respect the right to live a life without pains. What the germans did to Anne has nothing to do with that.

I would really like you to correct some of the worst elements of this column, but being realistic i think it will not be done. I feel a deep disgust about what you wrote about the Netherlands, but I know none of what you wrote was supported by any facts checked by you.

I would like to hear from you,

Yours sincerely,

Erik Klein Langenhorst
inhabitant of the Netherlands


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