Oorlog in Oekraïne #557 Order 227 Lukaschenka ;)

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 08:52 schreef polderturk het volgende:

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Wat vinden jullie van deze gasten?

Ze veranderen hun mening pas bij de mobilisatie.

“I have a couple of friends who supported the war believing that there are Nazis there who kill poor Ukrainians and that Ukrainians should be liberated and so on. But they are changing their opinions after mobilization. They have started to ask questions and surf the internet for information,” Yevgeny said.

“They don’t want to die, especially when you don’t understand why you should die,” he said. “What is the point?”

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:00 schreef dudewhereismycar het volgende:

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Dan vertrek je toch naar Rusland? Wie houdt je tegen? Of wellicht omdat het hier toch allemaal net iets eerlijker en beter is geregeld dan daar? Niet de lasten, wel de lusten, zo iets? Ik noem dat pas hypocriet.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:02 schreef StateOfMind het volgende:

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Geen medelijden mee.
Ze zijn alleen maar van mening veranderd omdat ze nu zelf aan de beurt zijn.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 08:17 schreef YoungDriller het volgende:

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Ik ben niet 'voor Rusland'. Ik ben anti-Kiev en anti Washington/Brussel. Die 3 zijn een kankergezwel die momenteel de hele wereld aan het verkrachten zijn zoals ze de afgelopen 30 jaar aan het doen zijn. Ik ben voor een multipolaire wereld. En ik zal dat ten alle tijden prefereren over een wereld waar enkel de VS met de scepter zwaait. Zéker in Europa.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 08:55 schreef YoungDriller het volgende:
De genocide op de Russisch talige bevolking in Oekraïne

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 08:47 schreef grrrrg het volgende:

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Daarom hebben we ook verkiezingen in het Westen itt 'verkiezingen' in Rusland.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 00:04 schreef slashdotter3 het volgende:
https://aumag.net/russia-(...)to-fight-in-ukraine/
Russia grabs men off the streets to fight in Ukraine

Police and military officers stormed a Moscow business center unannounced this week. They were looking for men to fight in Ukraine - and they grabbed almost everyone they saw. Some musicians practicing. A courier there to deliver a package. A man from a service agency in Moscow, very drunk, in his mid-50s, with difficulty walking.

"I have no idea why they took him," said Alexei, who like dozens of others in the office complex was rounded up and taken to the nearest military recruitment office, part of a harsh new phase in the Russian tour.

In towns and cities across Russia, men of fighting age hide to avoid the officials who seize them and send them to fight in Ukraine.

Police and military press gangs have in recent days grabbed men from the streets and outside metro stations. They have been lurking in apartment building lobbies to hand out military drafts. They have searched office blocks and hostels. They have invaded cafes and restaurants and blocked the exits.

In a pre-dawn sweep of the MIPSTROY1 construction company's dormitories on Thursday, they took more than 200 men. On Sunday, they gathered dozens at a shelter in Moscow for the homeless.

Officials raided MIPSTROY1 construction company dormitories on October 13 and took more than 200 men. (Video: @:mozhemobyasnit | Telegram)

The press gangs seem to drop down at random. It's terrifying - and at times comically random. Alexei, a pacifist of 30 years, lives with his cat, and until Russia pulled him away, he enjoyed hanging out with friends in bars, cafes and parks, going to concerts and planning his next holiday in Europe. (He and others in this report spoke on the condition that his last name be withheld for his safety. The Washington Post has confirmed the raid but could not independently verify the details he provided.)

Russia's airstrikes, intended to show power, reveal another weakness

An official entered Alexei's office on Tuesday. Two police officers and several plainclothes military officials arrived and demanded his identification. They ordered him to go quietly with them "or we will use force," he said.

"I was panicking," he said. "I had never been detained before. Everyone knows that if you are detained by the police in Russia, it is very bad.

Suffering massive military losses and repeated defeats in Ukraine, Russia has begun to cannibalize its male population. The hard-eyed pundits on state television demand more Ukrainian blood and more sacrifices from Russian men, who they say have become too used to a soft life.

But the new phase of Putin's mobilization risks undermining Russians' tacit support for the war and even his manufactured popularity - and could create social unrest. Especially in Moscow and St. Petersburg, major cities that have been largely untouched by the war until now.

More than 300,000 Russian men and their families have fled Russia since the mobilization, reports from neighboring countries show. The authorities have set up mobilization points at border crossings to prevent departures. Many others want to go after seeing the aggressive police raids and the first reports of the newly drafted men dying in the war.

Activist Grigory Sverdlin, who left Russia and is based in Georgia, launched an organization this month, Go By The Forest, to advise men in Russia to avoid the draft. He said the group has consulted with 2,700 men in 11 days and told 60 men how to surrender in Ukraine. At least eight have succeeded, he said.

"Obviously, people are very stressed because they're worried that they're going to be pressured into shooting other people," Sverdlin said. "So people are afraid not only of themselves, but of participating in this unjust war."

At a restaurant in Moscow, police present conscription orders to a diner who says he is celebrating his daughter's birthday. (Video: The Washington Post)

Yevgeny, 24, quit his job as a mechanic and is hiding in a relative's cabin far from Moscow. He has deleted his social media profiles and cut off contact with friends. He spends his days working in the garden and he goes to bed early and watches a lot of YouTube.

"I don't want to kill people and I don't want to be killed, so I really have to lay low now," he said. "But even here I don't feel safe. We live in a time when your neighbors could report you. They might call the police and say there's a young guy living in this house when he should be fighting fascists in Ukraine."

Yevgeny never supported the war. Now he has stopped driving for fear of being pulled over by the police. He can't leave Russia because he has no passport, and even going to the store in the small village feels risky.

As Putin escalates the war, some in Russia's business elite are despairing

"I'm panicking and my mother is very nervous," he said. "I'm stressed and I'm depressed. I try not to think about how long this could go on, because you can go crazy."

Two of his friends are worse off. They were called up at the end of last month, he said, and with a little training they are on their way to the front.

"I have a couple of friends who supported the war and believed that there are Nazis there who are killing poor Ukrainians and that Ukrainians should be freed and so on. But they change their minds after mobilization. They have started asking questions and surfing the Internet for information," said Yevgeny.

"They don't want to die, especially when you don't understand why you have to die," he said. "What's the point?"

As morale suffers, Russia and Ukraine are fighting a war of mental attrition

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday that 222,000 of the 300,000 targets had been summoned and that the process would be completed within two weeks. Pro-war hard-liners insist a second round will be necessary.

The raids in Moscow and St. Petersburg has been deeply controversial, partly because the cities have suffered relatively few losses in Ukraine. The burden of struggle has largely been borne by small ethnic groups and poorly educated men from poor rural areas.

In a sign that the government fears a growing urban backlash over the raids, Andrei Klishas, a senior member of Putin's United Russia party, said on Friday that the conscription effort was illegal.

"It is inadmissible to arbitrarily seize everyone on the street," he said.

Anti-war sentiment may harden as the bodies of soldiers deployed just weeks earlier begin to return home for burial. Alexei Martynov, the 29-year-old head of a government department in Moscow, was mobilized on September 23 and was killed on October 10. He was buried last week. Five soldiers from the southern Ural region, mobilized on September 26 and 29, were killed in Ukraine in early October, Chelyabinsk authorities reported.

A woman angrily berated a team that delivered military drafts in the lobby of her apartment building in St. Petersburg. (Video: SOTA)

A comrade of the Chelyabinsk men who survived a stunning Ukrainian assault called a friend and described what happened, according to the transcript of a phone call published by BBC News Russian. He said he had received no education. When he fled, he said, there were bodies everywhere.

"We got there the first day, never having fired a shot, and they sent us, like meat, straight to an assault unit with two grenade launchers. At least I had read the instructions on how to use them." By day 3, the soldier and his comrades were in the front line trenches.

Almost daily, videos appear on Russian social media of conscript soldiers, angry because they have not been given decent uniforms, weapons, training or quarters. Testimonies of men who should have been exempted from being sent to combat are common. Aleksei Sachkov, a 45-year-old Moscow doctor, signed a contract to treat wounded soldiers in Voronezh, Russia, near the border with Ukraine. He stopped calling his wife, Natalia, on September 24. She heard from Russia's military hotline a week later that he was fighting in Ukraine as part of a tank unit, she said in a video posted online.

As the war in Ukraine falters, Russians are asking a risky question: Can Putin fall?

As unrest grows, men of military age are being turned back at the borders as they try to leave the country. In March, weeks after Putin launched the invasion, he promised there would be no mobilization. But last month he cut off the tacit assurance that the conflict would be fought only by professional soldiers in return for the Russian public's passive acceptance of the war. Widespread anger at Putin's September 21 announcement suggests that public support for the war is lower than the Kremlin claims.

"It's the pain of the regime because a very common view in Russia now is that this war is lost," Sverdlin said. "And it seems that just issuing subpoenas, detaining many thousands of people and sending them to war is just buying this regime a little more time. But it's just buying time, because of course these people who were caught on street now, don't make good soldiers because they don't know how to fight."

As the backlash intensifies, some Russians are confronting authorities and recording videos. A woman berated a team in the lobby of her apartment complex in St. Petersburg. A Russian truck driver posted a video of himself confronting a police officer and a military official who tried to take him to the enlistment office.

"I don't give a s--- about your mobilization. You are the one entitled, not me. After all, you have a gun, not me. Why don't you go and mobilize yourself?"

The police officer tried to write a charge and demanded the driver's documents.

"I'm not giving you my documents. Why should I?" the truck driver said, "If you fail to bring order to your country, why do it in another country? And where? By just destroying it completely?"

A Russian truck driver posted a video of himself confronting a police officer and a military official who tried to take him to the enlistment office. (Video: Svoboda Slova)

Putin faces the limits of his military power as Ukraine reclaims land

In the raucous din of the military recruiting office where Alexei ended up, he said, many of the men were agitated, some were furious and others shrank into themselves. They stood in line at one office after another, where they were forced to sign the military draft, submit their documents and undergo a medical examination. Many were office workers seized on the street. A "strange" couple told Alexei that they were volunteers looking for an exciting lifestyle change.

He was shocked at how many men meekly donned the army uniforms handed to them and let themselves be led, apparently straight to training bases. One of his work colleagues was among them.

"I saw men who were lost and confused, and at the same time very weak," he said. "They didn't want to fight for themselves. They got papers and signed them all obediently. They weren't focused. They just stared off into space like they'd given up."

For Alexei, the threats and bluffing continued for hours as officials pressured him to sign the draft. He refused. The police were called. The did nothing, but a police guard at the door would not let him go.

He watched the lines of nervous men. The drunken city worker lay in a deep sleep. A member of the elite Russian Guard special police threw a noisy tantrum at the attempt to enlist him.

Alexei called a lawyer. He entered the military commissar's office, filmed him on his mobile phone and demanded to know the legal basis for detaining him.

"He became very angry and shouted at me to leave his office." At 8 pm he was finally allowed to go. Now he wants to leave Russia, but fears that he may be conscripted at the border.

"I'll wait until this is over, somewhere safe."

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 07:36 schreef Starhopper het volgende:
Hoe werken die Iraanse drones eigenlijk? Krijgen deze vooraf coördinaten en gaat het allemaal automatisch of zit iemand hem live te besturen?

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:00 schreef YoungDriller het volgende:

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Het afzetten van Janukovych wat volledig illegaal was. Er waren te weinig stemmen in het parlement om dit legaal te doen. Weet je nog? Die discussie hebben we al eens gevoerd en die heb je toen ook niet gewonnen.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:05 schreef HSG het volgende:

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Graag naar het Nederlands vertalen.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:05 schreef ExTec het volgende:

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Hier gestopt met lezen.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:05 schreef YoungDriller het volgende:

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Ze hadden ook verkiezingen in Oekraïne maar kennelijk is democratie alleen leuk als Washington & Brussel akkoord zijn.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:07 schreef ExTec het volgende:

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Onzin.

Wij hebben ook het recht om naar Den Haag te gaan en rutte uit het torentje te kicken.

Het is ons land hé?

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:07 schreef ExTec het volgende:

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Onzin.

Wij hebben ook het recht om naar Den Haag te gaan en rutte uit het torentje te kicken.

Het is ons land hé?

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:07 schreef xpompompomx het volgende:

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Geen Engels kunnen

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 08:58 schreef YoungDriller het volgende:

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Klopt, Kiev is iets van de afgelopen jaren. Sinds 2014 om precies te zijn. Je weet wel, na de illegale coup waar je voor weg blijft kijken en ze sinds het illegaal onverwerpen van een democratisch gekozen president genocide hebben gepleegd op de Russische bevolking in het oosten en het zuiden van het land.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:04 schreef AgLarrr het volgende:

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Als je voor een multipolaire wereld bent, ben je ook voor Brussel en Washington. Zonder Brussel en Washington houden we anno nu namelijk enkel Beijing over en dan is de wereld niet multipolair meer.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 07:20 schreef Starhopper het volgende:
[ twitter ]

En daar zit je dan met je bontmuts te koukleumen in huis terwijl het buiten 20 graden is

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Op zondag 16 oktober 2022 23:59 schreef oheng het volgende:

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Valt me tegen van UAWeapons, dit is fake news. 1 van de bemanningsleden was namelijk helemaal niet gewond.

Bron:
https://www.reddit.com/r/(...)enades_on_a_russian/

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:08 schreef YoungDriller het volgende:

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Was te zien de afgelopen jaren inderdaad!

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:14 schreef YoungDriller het volgende:

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Zeker. Ik vind dat beide ook moeten kunnen bestaan. Het zou alleen fijn zijn als de Amerikanen zouden opzouten naar hun eigen achtertuin.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 08:55 schreef YoungDriller het volgende:

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Welke dubbele standaard? De dubbele standaard dat je hier doodgegooid werd met Amerikaanse leugens over z.g.n. Irakese 'WMD's? De genocide op de Russisch talige bevolking in Oekraïne die de afgelopen jaren volledig genegeerd wordt in de westerse media? Selectieve censuur? Waar zijn alle sancties voor de Amerikaanse misdaden? Waar zijn de sancties voor de misdaden van de Nederlandse luchtmacht boven Syrië? Geen Russisch gas maar wel schijnheilig bij de Shell staan tanken elke week?

Het is allemaal zo hypocriet, onoprecht en doorzichtig. En ik weet dat dit niet gauw gaat veranderen maar die hypocrisie is wel waarom alles naar de tering gaat hier in Europa en waarom er voorlopig ook geen eind aan gaat komen. Ik heb daar vrede mee maar zal het altijd blijven benoemen. En dat noemen sommige mensen trollen.

C'est la vie

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:15 schreef ExTec het volgende:

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Maar dat is alleen omdat een meerderheid daar reden toe ziet.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:17 schreef zuchtje het volgende:

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Als je anti-imperialist ben, moet je ook anti-Rusland zijn. Zo niet, welkom in het clubje van hypocriete mensen!

Hier in het vrije westen klonken er genoeg anti-geluiden tijdens de Irak-oorlog. Ook in het parlement, en ook in de rest van Europa. Maar realpolitik is nodig als je als machtsblok wilt overleven. Er is een dun draadje die je kunt bewandelen om andere blokken te beïnvloeden en er tegelijkertijd te handelen. We hebben blijkbaar energie nodig van schurkenstaten. Dus je betaald er sowieso een prijs voor die je er niet voor wilt betalen. Of je pakt het af (en wordt ook een schurk) of je betaald er voor (en houd de schurk in het zadel)

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 09:17 schreef YoungDriller het volgende:

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Verkiezingen die daarna zijn gehouden werden niet gehouden door heel het land dus konden onmogelijk een afspiegeling zijn van de opinie in het land. Helaas.

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Op maandag 17 oktober 2022 08:17 schreef YoungDriller het volgende:

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Ik ben niet 'voor Rusland'. Ik ben anti-Kiev en anti Washington/Brussel. Die 3 zijn een kankergezwel die momenteel de hele wereld aan het verkrachten zijn zoals ze de afgelopen 30 jaar aan het doen zijn. Ik ben voor een multipolaire wereld. En ik zal dat ten alle tijden prefereren over een wereld waar enkel de VS met de scepter zwaait. Zéker in Europa.