[Centraal] MMA topic #137 The Ultimate Fighter: Live

quote:
Mas Oyama, a true Budoka, practiced Karate every day without fail until he passed away in 1994, aged 70.

Yes, this may not be directly related to Chinese Martial Science, but the lessons we can learn from their history will be very important for our development. Many people have heard of the legend of how Kyokushin Karate Founder Mas Oyama challenged and defeated the invincible Muaythai fighter "Black Cobra" in 1954 at Lumpinee Stadium, Bangkok for the very first time. It was said that he brought Black Cobra down with an elbow strike, followed by an "aerial triple kick"; but he admitted it was a very close fight. There are, strangely, no existing historical reports in Thailand to verify this. But that does not imply that the fight did not took place. Perhaps there was a news cover-up due to national pride; we might never know now that the parties involved are all gone.

Kenji Kurosaki, then and now. The Father of Japanese Kickboxing has not let age take away his passion for fighting and teaching. Last year, his student fighting in K1 World Max is Takayuki Kohiruimaki (right). He lost to Thai opponent Gaolan in the semi-finals.

Ten years later, in 1964, Oyama's senior disciple Kurosaki led another team of 3 Karateka to Lumpinee to challenge the Thais. Although the Karate team won 2 out of 3 bouts; Kurosaki, who was the leader, got KOed by middleweight champion "Reewai" 2 min 35 sec in the 1st round with an elbow strike. That fight changed his life forever - he was to give up Karate and train himself in Muaythai, eventually becoming the Father of Japanese Kickboxing. His castle, the Mejiro Gym still stands strong today. But in the old Japanese martial art comics "Karate Baka Ichidai", this important episode in Karate history was not depicted at all, only vaguely mentioned. It appeared that the comics only glorifiied, sometimes exagerating the victories of Kyokushin, but not its defeats.

Yoshiji Soeno, a Kyokushin Karate legend; & "Reiba", the "Dark Lord of Muaythai", as potrayed in the old Japanese martial art comics "Karate Baka Ichidai" (The Karate Idiot). After Mas Oyama, Soeno was the only other Karateka mad enough to launch a solo challenge on the strongest fighters in Thailand. Not surprisingly, the above real persons inspired the creation of the famous Street Fighter game characters Ryu & Sagat two decades later. Notice the striking resemblance of the comic and game potrayals. There is not a gaming youngster in this world who does not know these two characters, but hardly anybody would know the true story behind them.

Finally in 1974, soon after the 5th All Japan Open, Yoshiji Soeno, the "Tiger of Kyokushin" (paired with the equally famous Terutomo Yamazaki, known as the "Dragon of Kyokushin") decided to follow in the footsteps of Mas Oyama. With the blessing of Sosai Oyama, he embarked on a solo mission to Thailand to re-determine which is the ultimate striking art on Earth - Karate or Muaythai?

The real Yoshiji Soeno. He is also the Founder of Shidokan Karate (an off-shoot of Kyokushin), famous now in the US for its annual martial arts triathlon that tests fighters in Karate, Kickboxing & Grappling. Perhaps in Shidokan's system lies the true direction that Kyokushin should adopt.

Upon arriving in Bangkok, Soeno went immediately to the Rachdamnern Stadium, and approached its Orgainizer, "Hasat" asking to fight. Hasat was unconvinced of Soeno's prowess, but Soeno proved it to him by a simple "test" involving an available Thai fighter who was there at the time. Hasat then asked Soeno to head to Chiang Mai, to make a name for himself in Northern Thailand before coming back to Bangkok again to fight.

And so Soeno flew to Chiang Mai and the Organizer there, "Osman", who already knew in advance he was coming, put him up to fight on that very night. Soeno ran into difficulty in the very first round, getting knocked down by a surprise flying knee kick (rebounding from the ropes) from his Thai opponent. In the second round he fought back, and using the very same tactics, managed to KO his opponent with a spinning kick to the head. After that match the jealous Organizer set him up, tricking him into reducing his weight to lightweight, then putting up a middleweight fighter to fight him. Soeno was much affected physically & as a result almost got killed in the subsequent match. It was his mastery of Judo (threw his opponent out of the Ring) and superhuman belief in Kyokushin Karate that saved his life and the match. In a dramatic reversal, when his opponent grabbed his leg & was bout to deliver a coupe de grace, he used a "Sutemi Waza" (sacrifice technique), completely stunning the Thai with an aerial roundhouse kick to the neck from that position.

That bout finally caught the attention of "Reiba", whom they call the "Dark Lord of Muaythai". Perhaps he was as strong as "Black Cobra" was, if not more so. Reiba's prowess struck fear deep into Soeno's heart. He too knew the aerial triple kick, which he first learned when he saw Oyama's fight with the Black Cobra 20 years ago. Osman wasted no time in arranging a fight between Soeno & Reiba's disciple "Mongkut Kalop", the "Dark Warrior". Preluded by a pompous press conference, this fight began with the high anticipation of all Muaythai fans in Chiang Mai. Soeno immedaitely felt the deadly force of Mongkut's kicks in the first round. But to amazement & shock of everyone present, he suddenly unleashed the "triangle leap attack" (again using the ropes) technique, knocking out the Thai with a powerful strike to the head in that very round. Reiba, shocked as he was, immediately gathered himself and asked Soeno to increase his weight to middleweight - he would take him on personally!

However Reiba's brother "Daya", a bandit chief (really!) intervened & said he would slaughter Soeno in his brother's place. So it was. This time, with live coverage on national TV, this fight would be seen by all of Thailand. Halfway through his "Wai Kru" dance, the wild Daya suddenly attacked Soeno, even before the starting bell was rung! He had no regard for rules & was like an animal, fighting using the "Pahuyuth" system that hit witth every physical weapon available. It was bloody & brutal, as both fighters fought with all the techniques & strength that they had. Finally in the 4th round, when both of them were almost exhausted, Soeno leapt into the air and struck Daya with an elbow drop to the top of his skull - sending him flat on to the canvas unconscious instantly.

Reiba, already fuming by now, knew that only he himself could take this Karateka. But it was a fight that never was. Four days before the destined battle, Reiba was shot dead by a Thai gangster who was part of a mob to ambush him, controlled by the gambling syndicates. Ironically, not even the whole bunch of gangsters with weapons could take Reiba; he was shot by one of them whom he spared. In a grand funeral, the mighty Dark Lord disappeared forever into the darkness. Soeno returned to Bangkok soon after, fighting and winning the top fighters in Lumpinee, but in those victories he felt no joy; the death of Reiba had left an eternal void in his heart of what might have been.

Kancho Shokei Matsui, Champion of the 4th World Open and chosen heir of Mas Oyama. He leads the IKO1 Kyokushin-kai. However, after Oyama's death Kyokushin has broken up into a few splinter groups. This is in addition to the many off-shoots or sub-styles that grew out of Kyokushin even when Oyama was still alive.

After that episode, in the following year (1975) was the 1st World Open, perhaps the most glorious moment of Kyokushin where all challengers from other fighting styles around the world were easily blown away. The eventual Champion was Sato, 1st runner up Royama (a key pillar figure in IKO1 now) and 2nd runner up Ninomiya, the founder of Enshin Karate. In that period other first generation disciples of Oyama also went out to challenge the best of the rest (including Muaythai, Kickboxing & Kungfu) & achieved awe-inspiring results. Kyokushin at that time was indeed the strongest karate on Earth, the ultimate striking art.

Hooidraad	zaterdag 24 maart 2012 @ 23:37
	[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door Hooidraad op 25-03-2012 10:08:47 ]
datisstom	zaterdag 24 maart 2012 @ 23:45
	Mischien de laatste quotes in de OP zetten?
Hooidraad	zaterdag 24 maart 2012 @ 23:48
	quote: Op zaterdag 24 maart 2012 23:45 schreef datisstom het volgende: Mischien de laatste quotes in de OP zetten? Doen we hier niet aan, de OP is heilig
datisstom	zaterdag 24 maart 2012 @ 23:50
	Ik zit nu mobiel anders zou ik het wel even doen.
Jajong	zaterdag 24 maart 2012 @ 23:52
	quote: Op zaterdag 24 maart 2012 22:16 schreef datisstom het volgende: [..] Nice, ik vind het zo zielig als mensen erover prateb maar zelf niks doen. Wat is dit voor onzin? Ik mag dus ook geen NBA en NFL volgen ofzo? . En ik voetbal ook niet meer dus moet ik Eredivisie Live ook maar opzeggen. Bok op met je slappe karate vorm. Ga dan iig echte karate beoefenen ipv zon verwaterde kata-vorm.
datisstom	zaterdag 24 maart 2012 @ 23:54
	quote: Op zaterdag 24 maart 2012 23:52 schreef Jajong het volgende: [..] Wat is dit voor onzin? Ik mag dus ook geen NBA en NFL volgen ofzo? . En ik voetbal ook niet meer dus moet ik Eredivisie Live ook maar opzeggen. Bok op met je slappe karate vorm. Ga dan iig echte karate beoefenen ipv zon verwaterde kata-vorm. Neuh, ik heb het alleen over MMA. En wat is er "slap" aan wado ?
n00cL30n	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:03
	quote: Op zaterdag 24 maart 2012 23:28 schreef datisstom het volgende: [..] Je haalt me de woorden uit de mond. Ik vind karate een prachtige sport maar het kan niet op tegen muay thai, JJ en MMA. Mmmm... Is het verhaal van Mas Oyama en directe groep studenten niet bekend? SPOILER quote: Mas Oyama, a true Budoka, practiced Karate every day without fail until he passed away in 1994, aged 70. Yes, this may not be directly related to Chinese Martial Science, but the lessons we can learn from their history will be very important for our development. Many people have heard of the legend of how Kyokushin Karate Founder Mas Oyama challenged and defeated the invincible Muaythai fighter "Black Cobra" in 1954 at Lumpinee Stadium, Bangkok for the very first time. It was said that he brought Black Cobra down with an elbow strike, followed by an "aerial triple kick"; but he admitted it was a very close fight. There are, strangely, no existing historical reports in Thailand to verify this. But that does not imply that the fight did not took place. Perhaps there was a news cover-up due to national pride; we might never know now that the parties involved are all gone. Kenji Kurosaki, then and now. The Father of Japanese Kickboxing has not let age take away his passion for fighting and teaching. Last year, his student fighting in K1 World Max is Takayuki Kohiruimaki (right). He lost to Thai opponent Gaolan in the semi-finals. Ten years later, in 1964, Oyama's senior disciple Kurosaki led another team of 3 Karateka to Lumpinee to challenge the Thais. Although the Karate team won 2 out of 3 bouts; Kurosaki, who was the leader, got KOed by middleweight champion "Reewai" 2 min 35 sec in the 1st round with an elbow strike. That fight changed his life forever - he was to give up Karate and train himself in Muaythai, eventually becoming the Father of Japanese Kickboxing. His castle, the Mejiro Gym still stands strong today. But in the old Japanese martial art comics "Karate Baka Ichidai", this important episode in Karate history was not depicted at all, only vaguely mentioned. It appeared that the comics only glorifiied, sometimes exagerating the victories of Kyokushin, but not its defeats. Yoshiji Soeno, a Kyokushin Karate legend; & "Reiba", the "Dark Lord of Muaythai", as potrayed in the old Japanese martial art comics "Karate Baka Ichidai" (The Karate Idiot). After Mas Oyama, Soeno was the only other Karateka mad enough to launch a solo challenge on the strongest fighters in Thailand. Not surprisingly, the above real persons inspired the creation of the famous Street Fighter game characters Ryu & Sagat two decades later. Notice the striking resemblance of the comic and game potrayals. There is not a gaming youngster in this world who does not know these two characters, but hardly anybody would know the true story behind them. Finally in 1974, soon after the 5th All Japan Open, Yoshiji Soeno, the "Tiger of Kyokushin" (paired with the equally famous Terutomo Yamazaki, known as the "Dragon of Kyokushin") decided to follow in the footsteps of Mas Oyama. With the blessing of Sosai Oyama, he embarked on a solo mission to Thailand to re-determine which is the ultimate striking art on Earth - Karate or Muaythai? The real Yoshiji Soeno. He is also the Founder of Shidokan Karate (an off-shoot of Kyokushin), famous now in the US for its annual martial arts triathlon that tests fighters in Karate, Kickboxing & Grappling. Perhaps in Shidokan's system lies the true direction that Kyokushin should adopt. Upon arriving in Bangkok, Soeno went immediately to the Rachdamnern Stadium, and approached its Orgainizer, "Hasat" asking to fight. Hasat was unconvinced of Soeno's prowess, but Soeno proved it to him by a simple "test" involving an available Thai fighter who was there at the time. Hasat then asked Soeno to head to Chiang Mai, to make a name for himself in Northern Thailand before coming back to Bangkok again to fight. And so Soeno flew to Chiang Mai and the Organizer there, "Osman", who already knew in advance he was coming, put him up to fight on that very night. Soeno ran into difficulty in the very first round, getting knocked down by a surprise flying knee kick (rebounding from the ropes) from his Thai opponent. In the second round he fought back, and using the very same tactics, managed to KO his opponent with a spinning kick to the head. After that match the jealous Organizer set him up, tricking him into reducing his weight to lightweight, then putting up a middleweight fighter to fight him. Soeno was much affected physically & as a result almost got killed in the subsequent match. It was his mastery of Judo (threw his opponent out of the Ring) and superhuman belief in Kyokushin Karate that saved his life and the match. In a dramatic reversal, when his opponent grabbed his leg & was bout to deliver a coupe de grace, he used a "Sutemi Waza" (sacrifice technique), completely stunning the Thai with an aerial roundhouse kick to the neck from that position. That bout finally caught the attention of "Reiba", whom they call the "Dark Lord of Muaythai". Perhaps he was as strong as "Black Cobra" was, if not more so. Reiba's prowess struck fear deep into Soeno's heart. He too knew the aerial triple kick, which he first learned when he saw Oyama's fight with the Black Cobra 20 years ago. Osman wasted no time in arranging a fight between Soeno & Reiba's disciple "Mongkut Kalop", the "Dark Warrior". Preluded by a pompous press conference, this fight began with the high anticipation of all Muaythai fans in Chiang Mai. Soeno immedaitely felt the deadly force of Mongkut's kicks in the first round. But to amazement & shock of everyone present, he suddenly unleashed the "triangle leap attack" (again using the ropes) technique, knocking out the Thai with a powerful strike to the head in that very round. Reiba, shocked as he was, immediately gathered himself and asked Soeno to increase his weight to middleweight - he would take him on personally! However Reiba's brother "Daya", a bandit chief (really!) intervened & said he would slaughter Soeno in his brother's place. So it was. This time, with live coverage on national TV, this fight would be seen by all of Thailand. Halfway through his "Wai Kru" dance, the wild Daya suddenly attacked Soeno, even before the starting bell was rung! He had no regard for rules & was like an animal, fighting using the "Pahuyuth" system that hit witth every physical weapon available. It was bloody & brutal, as both fighters fought with all the techniques & strength that they had. Finally in the 4th round, when both of them were almost exhausted, Soeno leapt into the air and struck Daya with an elbow drop to the top of his skull - sending him flat on to the canvas unconscious instantly. Reiba, already fuming by now, knew that only he himself could take this Karateka. But it was a fight that never was. Four days before the destined battle, Reiba was shot dead by a Thai gangster who was part of a mob to ambush him, controlled by the gambling syndicates. Ironically, not even the whole bunch of gangsters with weapons could take Reiba; he was shot by one of them whom he spared. In a grand funeral, the mighty Dark Lord disappeared forever into the darkness. Soeno returned to Bangkok soon after, fighting and winning the top fighters in Lumpinee, but in those victories he felt no joy; the death of Reiba had left an eternal void in his heart of what might have been. Kancho Shokei Matsui, Champion of the 4th World Open and chosen heir of Mas Oyama. He leads the IKO1 Kyokushin-kai. However, after Oyama's death Kyokushin has broken up into a few splinter groups. This is in addition to the many off-shoots or sub-styles that grew out of Kyokushin even when Oyama was still alive. After that episode, in the following year (1975) was the 1st World Open, perhaps the most glorious moment of Kyokushin where all challengers from other fighting styles around the world were easily blown away. The eventual Champion was Sato, 1st runner up Royama (a key pillar figure in IKO1 now) and 2nd runner up Ninomiya, the founder of Enshin Karate. In that period other first generation disciples of Oyama also went out to challenge the best of the rest (including Muaythai, Kickboxing & Kungfu) & achieved awe-inspiring results. Kyokushin at that time was indeed the strongest karate on Earth, the ultimate striking art.
n00cL30n	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:04
	quote: Op zaterdag 24 maart 2012 23:54 schreef datisstom het volgende: [..] Neuh, ik heb het alleen over MMA. En wat is er "slap" aan wado ? Wado is niet eens full contact man...
datisstom	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:07
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 00:03 schreef n00cL30n het volgende: [..] Mmmm... Is het verhaal van Mas Oyama en directe groep studenten niet bekend? SPOILER [..] Jawel maar dat is kyokushin niet wado.
datisstom	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:08
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 00:04 schreef n00cL30n het volgende: [..] Wado is niet eens full contact man... IRL is het wel full contact.
Jajong	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:13
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 00:08 schreef datisstom het volgende: [..] IRL is het wel full contact. . IRL . Als jij nooit full contact spart kan je je ook niet IRL redden, trust me.
datisstom	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:17
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 00:13 schreef Jajong het volgende: [..] . IRL . Als jij nooit full contact spart kan je je ook niet IRL redden, trust me. Whehe, ik zie je al rondlopen in je strakke G-Star tshirt. Niet iedereen doet vechtsport om stoer te kunnen doen. Ik heb �berhaupt nog nooit gevochten, maar als iemand iets probeert ligt 'ie binnen no time met z'n handen op z'n rug.
Jajong	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:19
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 00:17 schreef datisstom het volgende: [..] Whehe, ik zie je al rondlopen in je strakke G-Star tshirt. Niet iedereen doet vechtsport om stoer te kunnen doen. Ik heb �berhaupt nog nooit gevochten, maar als iemand iets probeert ligt 'ie binnen no time met z'n handen op z'n rug. . Leave topic kthnx
datisstom	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:22
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 00:19 schreef Jajong het volgende: [..] . Leave topic kthnx Nee hoor, zit hier wel goed. Besides, ik ben het wel met je eens hoor, ergens. Ik was op muay thai gegaan als er niet alleen maar Mocros opzaten.
Splackavellie02	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:24
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 00:17 schreef datisstom het volgende: [..] Whehe, ik zie je al rondlopen in je strakke G-Star tshirt. Niet iedereen doet vechtsport om stoer te kunnen doen. Ik heb �berhaupt nog nooit gevochten, maar als iemand iets probeert ligt 'ie binnen no time met z'n handen op z'n rug. Juist.. Everybody has a plan, until they get punched in the face. Hoe wil je daarvoor trainen zonder full contact te sparren?
n00cL30n	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:39
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 00:08 schreef datisstom het volgende: [..] IRL is het wel full contact. IRL jank je het uit als een Mawashi geri in ene door wordt gezet in plaats van dat deze wordt in gehouden op een paar centimeters afstand.
datisstom	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:50
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 00:39 schreef n00cL30n het volgende: [..] IRL jank je het uit als een Mawashi geri in ene door wordt gezet in plaats van dat deze wordt in gehouden op een paar centimeters afstand. We sparren wel full contact.
rumiii	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 00:55
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 00:17 schreef datisstom het volgende: [..] Whehe, ik zie je al rondlopen in je strakke G-Star tshirt. Niet iedereen doet vechtsport om stoer te kunnen doen. Ik heb �berhaupt nog nooit gevochten, maar als iemand iets probeert ligt 'ie binnen no time met z'n handen op z'n rug. Vlieg niet te hoog.. De landing zou wel eens pijn kunnen doen.
datisstom	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 01:11
	Zoals ik al zei, het is niet zo hard als mt en jiu jitsu idd.
THEFXR	zondag 25 maart 2012 @ 03:23
	quote: Op zondag 25 maart 2012 01:11 schreef datisstom het volgende: Zoals ik al zei, het is niet zo hard als mt en jiu jitsu idd. je bent in dit topic om MMA te leren/kijken?