9/11 #45: Waar we gaan kijken of we normaal over 9/11 kunnen praten.

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Op dinsdag 26 april 2011 15:52 schreef Dribedabou het volgende:

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Ook zijn er mensen die geblokkeerd raken door traumatische gebeurtenissen en er daardoor helemaal niet over kunnen praten (en er dus ook totaal geen emoties over kunnen tonen). Dat is ook een bekend verschijnsel bij mensen die in concentratiekampen hebben gezeten.

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Op dinsdag 26 april 2011 15:59 schreef Scrummie het volgende:

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Precies, en dan heb je nog de mensen die graag belangrijk willen overkomen, en dus verschillende verhalen gaan ophangen, omdat ze eigenlijk gewoon niet weten wat er precies voor hun ogen gebeurt is. Voordat je al die filmpjes correct wil verklaren zou je elke geinterviewde moeten doorlichten door een professioneel psycholoog, in plaats van die snelle conclusies door internet nerdjes die spoken zien.

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Op dinsdag 26 april 2011 16:18 schreef J0kkebr0k het volgende:

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Punt is dat het bijna alle filmpjes met ooggetuigen betreft. Op zo'n beetje alle filmpjes is wel wat aan te merken. En zou je je toon a.j.b. ff wat willen minderen? Ik maak jou toch ook niet voor van alles en nog wat uit?

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Op dinsdag 26 april 2011 16:23 schreef Scrummie het volgende:

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Doel ik op jou dan? Nee, ik heb het over de originele commentaren bij de filmpjes, tenzij jij die gemaakt heb.

Inhoudelijk: So what dat het filmpjes met ooggetuigen betreft? Dat is toch juist het punt? En wat er aan te merken is, is er eigenlijk helemaal niet aan te merken juist omdat het emoties zijn die deze verhalen "maken". Tenzij jij andere dingen aan te merken hebt op de filmpjes, aanmerkingen die NIET over hoe of wat er gezegd word op gevoel, maar feitelijk, acht ik bij deze al die filmpjes als onzinnig verklaart.

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Op dinsdag 26 april 2011 16:41 schreef J0kkebr0k het volgende:

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Ik snap ook wel dat het niet hard te maken valt, maar wat mij opvalt is dat wat men over het algemeen aankaart m.b.t. die ooggetuigen, mij meestal ook meteen opvalt. Het ligt er in enkele gevallen zelfs dik bovenop dat het niet legitiem is, wat je te zien krijgt.

Jij wordt echter geremd door je morele bezwaar. Van jou mag je simpelweg geen ooggetuigen in twijfel trekken. Simpelweg omdat JIJ vindt dat het not done is. Kom op zeg...

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Op dinsdag 26 april 2011 16:46 schreef Scrummie het volgende:

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Ik zeg niet dat je het niet in twijfel mag trekken. Dat mag zeker, maar dan wel met goeie redenen. Ik zie nu mensen voor leugenaar uitgemaakt worden puur omdat ze wel/niet in emotie reageren. Onderbouw het met goeie redenen, niet op gevoel gebaseerd en ik luister aandachtig.

"Dont Believe the HYPE"- 911 PROPAGANDA

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Try as they might, they couldn't get seats on the same plane.

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You may think of it as the strangest collision in the strangest week in American memory. You might call it the deadly serendipity of circumstances, an incredible freak of science and mathematics and airline schedules, or the terrible collateral of terrorist carnage.

Ruth Clifford McCourt and Paige Farley Hackel would say you were wrong to think of their story as random--if only they were still here to tell it.

McCourt and Hackel were best friends for more than a decade. They toured Africa together. They were meditation partners. In their mid-40s, they still were turning heads all over New England. "Soul sisters," they called themselves. Separate the two and the universe might be thrown dangerously out of balance.

Tuesday, they were traveling with each other again, driving to Boston's Logan International Airport to begin a vacation in Southern California. With Ruth's daughter Juliana in tow, they would see friends and spend a few days at Deepak Chopra's Center for Well Being in La Jolla.

But their togetherness ended at the airport: Try as they might, they couldn't get seats on the same plane.

Hackel, 46, left first, on American Airlines Flight 11. Ruth McCourt, 45, and Juliana, 4, boarded United Airlines Flight 175.

In New York, McCourt's brother, Ronald Clifford, had arrived at the World Trade Center from his home in New Jersey. He was 15 minutes early for a business meeting. As he paced the lobby, he felt the building shake.

It was Paige Hackel's flight crashing into the north tower.

Clifford spotted a woman whose skin had been singed. He led her out of the building and helped her find medical treatment, according to relatives. Then he looked up and saw the plane carrying his sister and niece crash into the south tower.

On Saturday, Hackel's family, including her mother, husband and stepson, attended a funeral Mass for McCourt and her daughter in East Lyme, Conn. Today, the McCourt clan will travel north to Boston for Hackel's service. The brother who saw it all insisted on handling the arrangements.

"This is all completely appropriate," said McCourt's mother, Paula Scott. "I knew that if one of them had to go, both of them would have to go. And now our families have come together.

"My daughter and Paige were terribly connected."

One morning 11 years ago, Paige Hackel walked into Clifford Classiques, a spa on Centre Street in Boston that Ruth Clifford had opened in 1985. A conversation about everything from skin treatments to the afterlife ensued. The two women discovered they had, in different ways, devoted their lives to healing.

The third of six children and the only daughter of a paper merchant and his wife in Cork, Ireland, Ruth Clifford had immigrated to the United States at age 17. After living briefly in Los Angeles, she moved to Rochester, N.Y., where she was hired to open satellite campuses around the country for a modeling school based there. In 1982, she settled in Boston.

The woman who entered her shop had a tougher life. Born in the Boston suburb of Framingham, the former Paige Farley, one of three siblings, spent much of her early years battling drug and alcohol addiction. She successfully completed treatment in 1985 and, by the time she met Clifford, she was volunteering with Salvation Army treatment programs and working toward a master's degree in substance abuse counseling.

She sought out spiritual counsel from self-help gurus, notably author Wayne Dyer. She met and married Allan Hackel and they settled into a home in Newton, not far from McCourt's. Their answering machine playfully urges friends to "take a deep breath, smile, enjoy the day."

"Paige had been through a lot," says Mimi Torp of Santa Monica, who was a friend of both women. But now "she was married to a husband who . . . was a very supportive man."

The new friends made a striking pair on the streets of Boston. Clifford, who had done some modeling, was tall with fire-red hair. Hackel, who ran triathlons, had dark hair and bright eyes that commanded attention.

Hackel introduced Clifford to meditation. They had traveled to Chopra's center in La Jolla at least once before. In recent years, Hackel had studied with a colleague of Chopra's, Debbie Ford, author of the New York Times bestseller "The Dark Side of the Light Chasers."

Hackel was a member of an "integrative coaching" group that met over the phone every Tuesday. She found Ford's "shadow process" so inspiring that she made plans to start an AM radio show to be called "Spiritually Speaking."

"For many people who have been on the road to recovery, it's not about trying to get rid of or change everything," says Ford. "It's about learning to love and integrate all parts of you."

In September 1994, Clifford married David McCourt, owner of a construction business, in a ceremony at the Vatican. When Juliana was born, Hackel was her godmother. In 1999, the McCourts moved to a waterfront home in New London, Conn., David's hometown.

To bridge the distance, the friends scheduled outings. Hackel would come to Connecticut for McCourt's St. Patrick's Day parties, or McCourt would travel north to join Hackel on trips to Loon Mountain in New Hampshire.

In January of this year, McCourt, Hackel and Hackel's mother, Marjorie Farley, visited South Africa and Zimbabwe. In March, they went skiing. Last month, McCourt helped her friend organize a birthday party for Hackel's mother in Boston.

The California trip would be another opportunity to be together. McCourt would tag along with Hackel on a four-day intensive session with Ford at Chopra's. They would visit friends in Los Angeles and take Juliana to Disneyland.

It wasn't until Tuesday night that their loved ones pieced together the details of the tragedy. Family and friends said they took small comfort--but comfort nonetheless--in the fact that the two friends had perished together.

In California, Ford said she believes that in some way, the proximity of the deaths of Hackel and the two McCourts were "planned, fated. . . . I don't really believe in coincidences."

Family and friends say McCourt and Hackel would have responded to the terrorist attack by emphasizing peace and negotiation.

In New London, the Juliana McCourt Children's Educational Fund has been established to help foreign students come to the United States and study subjects related to healing and tolerance. In California, a Paige Farley Scholarship will allow people to attend Ford's training program tuition-free.

As she prepared for the two funerals, Paula Scott, McCourt's mother, kept replaying the World Trade Center crashes in her mind. She says she somehow knew at the moment she saw the second plane crash on TV that she had lost her granddaughter, her daughter and her daughter's best friend.

"I know it wasn't physically possible," she says. "But I had a vision of all of them holding onto each other."

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On Tuesday, September 11, 2001, Ruth McCourt, her four year old daughter Juliana and her best friend Paige Farley-Hackel drove to Boston’s Logan International Airport. They were on their way to Southern California. They were going to see friends, they were going to spend a few days at Deepak Chopra’s Center for Well-Being where Paige would receive certification in the Debbie Ford Shadow Process and they were going to take “Miss J” to Disneyland. Because they wanted to use frequent flier miles, they wound up on different airlines. Paige was on American Airlines flight 11, Ruth and Juliana were on United flight 175. They would meet up at the airport in Los Angeles, California, and begin their mini-vacation.

That same morning Ruth’s brother Ron Clifford, who lives in New Jersey, had a meeting scheduled at the Marriott Marquis in Midtown, but it was moved to the Marriott World Trade Center at the last moment. He and Ruth were especially close, she’d even instructed him on which tie to wear for the meeting. It was a beautiful day, his daughter Monica’s 11th birthday, and this meeting was extremely important to his career future.

He arrived about 15 minutes early, and was standing in the lobby of the WTC when the first plane, American 11, hit the north tower. He wasn’t sure what had happened, but a terribly burned woman appeared in front of him and he wound up helping her. He was praying with her and trying to keep her talking (and conscious) when the second plane hit the south tower and he knew he had to get her out of there quickly. (The woman was 40-year old Jennieann Maffeo, who had been standing at a bus stop outside the twin towers. She had been doused with burning jet fuel when the first plane crashed, and had suffered third degree burns over more than 90% of her body. Forty two days after Ron Clifford led her from the WTC she died of kidney failure.) It wasn’t until after he’d gotten the lady to an ambulance and boarded the ferry to New Jersey that he learned the cause of the fires. He was glad his sister and niece had left for California the day before and hoped that they weren’t watching CNN. He didn’t want them seeing this and worrying about his safety. As he watched the first tower collapse from the ferry, he realized that by giving him something to focus on, the lady he’d helped had probably saved his life.

Ron made it home, stunned, shaken and devastated by all that he had witnessed. Later that evening he learned that Ruth and Juliana had not left the day before, and had, in fact, been on that second plane which crashed into the south tower at 9:02:54 a.m., and that Paige Farley-Hackel, a friend of the entire family, had been on the first, which crashed into the north tower at 8:46:26 a.m.

Days later, as she prepared for the funerals, Paula Scott, Ruth’s mom, kept replaying the World Trade Center crashes in her mind. She says she somehow knew at the moment she saw the second plane crash on TV that she had lost her granddaughter, her daughter and her daughter’s best friend. “I know it wasn’t physically possible, but I had a vision of all of them holding onto each other.”

Ron asked a friend of his, a NY policeman, to retrieve some ashes for Ron to send back to a brother in Ireland. When Tommy the cop gave Ron the ashes, he also gave him a piece of glass, tinted black, irregularly shaped, but smooth on the edges. It’s a piece of the World Trade Center, and now Ron carries it all the time. ”It gives me some solace to have something. Some remembrance. It’s tempered glass. You can hold it as tight as you can and it’s not going to cut you.” Ron had his piece of glass engraved. On one side it reads, ”What a sister.” On the other, ”In the life.”

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“In the life,” was Ruth’s saying. In addition to her tall, elegant beauty, the redhead was blessed with a sharp, quick mind and stood firm in her convictions. She often began her proclamations with the phrase, which is an old Irish expression meaning something akin to “in this lifetime.”

Born on June 4, 1956, Ruth was the third of six children and the only daughter born to her parents in Ballintemple, County Cork, Ireland. She immigrated with her family to the United States in 1973 at the age of 17. She first lived in Pacific Palisades with her family, her step-father was a professor at UCLA.

After doing some modeling of her own, Ruth moved to Rochester, NY, where she worked for a modeling school: she was tasked with opening new branches of the school around the country. In 1982, she settled just outside of Boston in Newton, Massachusetts, and in 1985, she opened a day spa there, “Clifford Classiques” which eventually grew into full service spas and salons with its own line of products.

Paige and Ruth had met in 1989, when Paige came to Ruth’s Newton spa. The two women began chatting about this and that, and, as they realized how much they had in common, something sparked between them. It was the beginning of a lifelong friendship, the women considered themselves soul-sisters. Paige became a part of Ruth’s extended family, who liked to joke that if you separated the two of them the universe might be thrown dangerously out of balance.

In September 1994, Ruth married David McCourt, owner of Abco Wire and Metal Products, in a ceremony at the Vatican. She sold her business and the happy couple moved to New London, Connecticut, which was David’s hometown. Paige still lived in Newton, but the women were as close as ever and frequently traveled together or spent time at one another’s homes. When Juliana was born on May 4, 1997, Paige was named her Godmother.

In 2001, Ruth and Paige had been busy. In January, along with Paige’s mom Marjorie, they visited South Africa and Zimbabwe. In March, Paige had gone to Ruth’s St. Patrick’s Day party in Connecticut, and later that month they’d gone on a skiing trip. In August, they’d organized a birthday party for Paige’s mom in Boston. Their September trip would include several days with friends and a surprise visit to Disneyland for Juliana.

Ruth loved gardening, reading and cooking. She and Paige were meditation partners, while she and her mother were active members of the New London Gardening Club. She lived in an elegant home built on the foundation of an old casino. The property had three beaches, and she had created a meditation garden. Ruth spent quite a bit of time getting her garden just right. Her garden featured flowing water, a small bridge, sculpture and benches.

Ruth and her mom had also recreated Mr. McGregor’s Garden, a children’s vegetable and flower garden complete with a potter’s shed. Ruth’s garden served as the inspiration for the McCourt Memorial Garden, which was dedicated four years after her death.

Ruth was extremely close to her family (including those still in Ireland) and doted on her husband and daughter. Family and friends describe her as very spiritual.

About a week before the tragedy, Ruth had called her brother Ron to relate an anecdote about Juliana. She told how she’d instructed Juliana to eat her cheerios, and the little girl had replied “yes, your highness.” Through her laughter Ruth asked Ron “where is she getting this stuff?” Like her mom, Juliana was very feminine and very concerned about others, a little girl who would question strangers who seemed sad about what was bothering them.

Ruth’s family comforts themselves with their belief that when the plane crashed, Ruth was probably calm, holding her daughter tightly and softly singing in her ear.

~~~~~

In New London, four years after the attack, the governor officially opened the McCourt Memorial Garden, a six-acre garden inspired by the memory of Ruth and Juliana. Ruth’s mom describes it as a contemplative and beautiful spot that she hopes will inspire thoughts of peace and love. “The first time I walked through the area I felt a profound peace come over me. Amid all the turmoil, it is such a joy to be able to connect with nature. Every time I am at the Garden I am reminded of the words ‘one is nearer to heaven in the garden than anywhere else on earth.’ This is my peaceful place and our family is so grateful to all those who have made this Garden possible. I hope that everyone who visits this Garden will share in the joy that it has brought to so many.”

The garden features several inviting areas including a Children’s Secret Garden, where visitors will find whimsical mushroom-shaped tables and stools and a “Fairy Circle” perfect for storytelling, birthday parties or picnic lunches for the many school children who visit the Museum. A brick “tea terrace” on the side of the historic Deshon-Allyn House has been named after Ruth McCourt in celebration of her Irish heritage.

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Op dinsdag 26 april 2011 21:57 schreef TitusPullo het volgende:

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Ik heb eigenlijk geen zin meer om om mij met deze idioterie bezig te houden, maar ik wil nog wel deze redenering aantekenen: dat men bereid is om soldaten in te zetten, wil nog niet zeggen dat men bereid is om de eigen burgers te doden.

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Op dinsdag 26 april 2011 23:21 schreef Divje het volgende:

September 11th 2001 Second Plane Crash WCBS Dub4 03

Iemand anders die het opmerkelijk vind in dit filmpje dat de cockpit van het vliegtuig er heel uit lijkt te komen? Ik weet nog niet wat ik ervan moet denken maar dacht, ik deel t even..

Excuses overigens als dit allemaal al uitgebreid besproken is..

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Op woensdag 27 april 2011 09:34 schreef Culto het volgende:

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Als ik deze quote van Terecht goed lees, dan gaat hij het argument dat simulatie van Shanksville en Pentagon overbodig zou zijn, gebruiken als reden waarom 9/11 dus geen komplot geweest kan zijn...

Het antwoord is vrij eenvoudig: het staat vast dat in Shanksville en Pentagon gesimuleerd is dat daar een
vliegtuig neergestort resp. ingevlogen is. Daar kom je niet onderuit: dat staat feitelijk vast.
Dus in alle scenario's en analyses moet dat opgenomen zitten.

Dus als jij stelt dat die 2 overbodig waren, dan nòg moet je met een verklaring zien te komen waarom ze dan zijn opgenomen in de Officiele Versie van 9/11.
Als je uitgaat van simulatie hoeft dat niet: dan zijn die 2 slechts onderdeel van de grote 9/11-terror-simulatie.

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Op woensdag 27 april 2011 09:48 schreef TitusPullo het volgende:

Nee, ik weet alleen dat er mensen zijn die als perverse voyeurs te werk gaan in hun poging om aan te tonen dat een aantal van de slachtoffers niet bestaan heeft.

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Op woensdag 27 april 2011 10:42 schreef TitusPullo het volgende:

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Nee hoor, het is ook nog eens volkomen onzinnig.

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Op woensdag 27 april 2011 11:24 schreef Scrummie het volgende:
Cockpit -> debunk word gewoon helemaal niet op ingegaan. Te grappig voor woorden, en ik zeg dit topic maar weer vaarwel.

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Op woensdag 27 april 2011 11:13 schreef TitusPullo het volgende:

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O, de Amerikaanse overheid heeft op D-Day zijn eigen militairen belaagd?

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Op woensdag 27 april 2011 11:31 schreef J0kkebr0k het volgende:

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Natuurlijk wil ik daar op ingaan. Het betreft natuurlijk een filmpje van niet al te beste kwaliteit. Door deze slechte kwaliteit zijn diverse pixels niet overal even scherp en her en der is sprake van aliasing. Dit verklaart dan ook dat de neus niet precies matcht. Puur een compressie kwestie.