Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) #7

Topic for facts, speculations and general chat with our foreign friend(s), preferably in English.

Natalee Holloway (in the rebound)
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) II
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) III
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) IV
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) V
Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) VI

Andere topics die interessant zijn:
Shango's raadsel
De man in de schaduw: Steve Gregory Croes
Peter's reactie op kritische reacties na uitzending

Buitenland:
Scared Monkeys
Arubadirtypolice blogspot

Schijnt ook een leuke site te zijn, er wordt in de voorgaande topics veel naar verwezen iig:
Refugees Unleashed

Natalee Holloway zaak in de archieven:
Riehlworldview
Scrux

En uiteraard op de FP:
Peter's reactie op kritische reacties na uitzending
Holloway-zaak kost Aruba miljoenen
Joran praat morgen met politie

Game on!

[ Bericht 54% gewijzigd door Petre op 18-02-2008 23:03:19 ]

quote:

Op maandag 18 februari 2008 22:05 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

You can read Dutch? Fine...

I was talking about the majority of people (not meaning you btw) like Klaasend who respond to my few postings at SM and about my awfull brother in law who's from the US. I doný like those kind of people, wherever they come from...
I've got many friends in the USA who know how to have a good discussion and don't judge you after the first few words. Most of them don't even know about this case btw...
And for your information, I've been to the USA for about 14 times, mostly longer than 2 weeks, so I do know a little about the American way of thinking most people overthere do and it don't makes me smile...

An example when I was in a shopping mall one day:
Girl behind counter (about 25 years of age): Where are you from?
Me: Holland.
Girl: Holland? Is that the capitol of Germany?
Me: No, it's a country on itself, next to Germany.
Girl: Do you have a president?
Me: No, we have a queen.
Girl: Are you allowed to travel outside your country?



or

Man in bar: We know everthing about Russia because of the cold war, but Holland... Never heard about it. Is that close to Russia?



And these are no jokes...

I will be in the USA in October/November of this year to visit friends, hopefully far away from the people I just described.

I can only read through a translator..But I am slowly learning some words

Yes I am very well aware about Americans..lol..There is a huge distance to the nearest countries like Canada and Mexico..Most of Canada is very similar to the U.S as well as the people..Mexicans or Latin heritage is now the biggest minority in the U.S. and are definetly a part of America no matter what state you live in. So for most Americans it is unlikely they will meet many french,germans,russians,dutch..etc or be able to travel there..Most european countries are much smaller and much easier to travel to. Also Americans do not travel like the europeans,like most Dutch who have 6-8 weeks off a year to do that. Most Americans get 1-2 weeks off a year for holiday or vacation time.

Like I said I have lived in the states most of my life and I am very familiar with the lack of knowledge about other customs and people. It is not all Americans but compared to the Avg European it is definetly true for the obvious reasons. Since America is so large and has well over 250 million people what would happen if they asked questions about each individual state in the U.S. to a typical Dutch Person? BTW: Klaas is a very intelligent person but she has a tough Job over at SM and is attacked daily.

Lets just have a little bit of fun..Watch this Video..lol
(Click to watch video)


This is also very funny Not relevent to our discussions but a keeper
(Click to watch video)


[ Bericht 1% gewijzigd door observer777 op 18-02-2008 23:11:57 ]

quote:

Op maandag 18 februari 2008 21:59 schreef dazzle123 het volgende:

[..]

You have a lot to learn about 18 year old amaricain girls who are all straight a students who don't do drug and drink alot of alcohol.

Don't get me wrong , i think it's very sad an 18 yaers old girl dies by an od. But don't go tell me she was an angel who never did anything. I have seen too many angels doing alot of things which you don't expect from angels.

Actually I know quite a bit. I have 4 neices at that age and 2 that are in there early 20's. I know a great deal about Natalee from what I have read from everyone that knew her and from Family members I have talked to and what I said about her is absolutely a fact. Yes she smoked a cigarette and drank sometimes during her stay in Aruba..Truth is she was much more of a goody too shoes than 90% of the other MB teens. She was a angel and did not deserve to be drugged raped and murdered. Even sicker than that is the Aruban Govt spending millions to slander and lie about her. Her having cocaine and seen by Dompigs brother in law and some other unknown friend of Jorans is a absolute crock of sh%@$. Yes there are some teens that have gone to Aruba and dabbled in drugs and partied there ass off and took chances,Natalee was not one of them! Even if she did it is still not relevent that someone drugged,raped and murdered her.

quote:

Op maandag 18 februari 2008 23:19 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
I probably met that girl in the shopping mall and in some kind of way I know the man of the 2nd movie too...

If you want me to name all states of the USA I would be delighted and I can tell something about those states too. I've been to about 30 states of the US already and in october/november (I booked a hour ago and will visit Atlanta, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Atlanta once agian, New York before I will go back to Amsterdam) I will add 2 more to the list.

If Americans don't know much about foreign countries, wouldn't it be better to learn something about it before they piss on them? I still remember that sig. of one the SM-members with the peeing guy next to the word 'Aruba'. How simple can you be?...

But hey, some Americans do know about Holland? They come here with loads out of the 747's to buy pot and other drugs and they party 24/7 during their stay overhere. That's we're good for...

LOL!! Yes but you are not a normal antillen or Dutch person..You have been to the states 14 times and probably other european countries. I know several Dutch people that have barely left Holland and know little about the states except for what they see on TV. You are so close to France,Belgium,Germany and other countries so it easy and much cheaper to travel plus you have many more vacation days to do so. How often do you think we see Dutch Television?

I am agreeing with you about most Americans or people you will meet in shopping malls. Add in George Bush who I think is a complete idiot and the backlash against Americans is worse than ever. Granted there are many Americans who learned in college,out of there own interests or traveled to learn upon themselves about Europe,Africa,Asia or elsewhere.

As far as some SM members,you really have to see what has happened since day one and continues to happen. It is truly unbelievable the hate,lies and slander that they say about Natalee and her Family. I understand the anger and I am very angry myself. But I realize it is coming from the Govt and not the people. Aruba is such a tiny place,many are scared and were told not to talk about the case and tourism from America is 3/4 of there Tourism and about that amount of people work in that industry.. If you talk with them off the chat boards it's entirely another story. Where are all the Arubans? I dont see one Avg Aruban ctizen on any of the boards talking about this case. Is there any at FOK?

quote:

Op maandag 18 februari 2008 23:10 schreef Felixa het volgende:
This one is pretty funny too!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE&feature=related

Hehe..Yes astonishing..They show this kind of stuff on our late night talk shows

quote:

Op maandag 18 februari 2008 23:32 schreef MadMaster het volgende:
Observer, an objective question:

How much do think you know all together in this case? I mean, how much evidence is there for sure in your opinion, based on the Aruban/Dutch laws? And how would that evidence be used if Joran was an US-citizen?

I've been reading at SM once again today and there's a lot of info, not only facts, but also rumours, side steps etc.
Do you think it's possible for you (or someone else) to gather all the real evidence, scrapp the side steps and make a document of it that you could send to some government or so?
Just an idea, because talking about it on an internet forum only won't help...

I know a tremendous amount about this case but there is no smoking gun on video,confessions or forensic evidence that would end everything right now this minute. Much of what is on the blogs is circumstancial evidence and right now they are putting together something that is easier to read for the media and others that will show what I have tried to show here at FOK. SM has info all over the place and like you said it is not in one place that is easy to read and yes there are many facts,rumors,hearsay and much speculation..etc..It gives me a huge headache even thinking about the amount of material. A large part of the problem is because the Dossier has been kept confidential and only a small part of it has been released. Hans Mos won't even answer questions to Natalee's own Family,questions that most everyone knows that is involved except them.You already know what I think.. It is a definite cover up and a huge conflict of interest involving Paul Van Der Sloots friends/connections and Aruban Govt who sabataged this case.. So many unanswered questions and I have proven that the Aruban Investigators are caught in several lies and they refuse to answer the questions.

The Aruban/Dutch laws really aren't too different from those that are in America. Yes there are some differences because you can arrest someone on suspicion,a trial is ruled by a judge and not a jury..etc..I don't buy the excuse about the Dutch Legal system being terrible,it was Abused and Corrupted by all entities that worked together in Aruba to make sure this case was never solved. The Dutch system is only as good as those that run it and even the Dutch Law scholars agree what happened in Aruba is astonishing,ludicrous and ridiculous. I am convinced it was solved in June 2005 as you already know.

Remember in our law we have plea bargaining as your system only allows one crown witness. If this happened in the U.S.the Perps would all be in jail right now. If not this would most certainly be going to trial. There is plenty of witnesses and people to put under oath so the truth comes out in court. That is what a trial is all about to bring out all the facts and put people on the stand. So many people know more but aren't talking in Aruba.

BTW:I have spoken to Arubans and some agree with me but they feel there is nothing they can do and do not want to get involved. I have had Dutch friends and worked with the Dutch 2 years before Natalee dissapeared. They try to teach me the language and so does a german contact of mine. Its just hard to teach old dogs new tricks My Dutch friend tells me learning German is similar to Dutch but you have to yell..lol

[ Bericht 3% gewijzigd door observer777 op 19-02-2008 00:32:54 ]

This post by Charles Croes is very interesting..What does he know that we don't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHARLES CROES - WHAT HAPPENED?

http://bb.visitaruba.com/showthread.php?p=18418
June 2, 2005

Author: Charles (—.setardsl.aw) Date: 06-02-05 09:01
There are issues in this case that can go beyond the obvious in their implications. It will take time for all the information regarding this lovely child to come out. Some of it will be hard to handle and some of it will be expected. With regards to the family of this missing child, my prayers are with you. I was with them on the first night they arrived to ARuba (looking for their daughter) from midnight until 5:30 AM and have kept in touch. In my opinion, this issue has far reaching implications for all those involved. I wish all of us strength

charles croes
arubafastphones.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161233,00.html
VAN SUSTEREN: Did he describe whether or not she seemed to have had too much to drink or anything that night?

C. CROES: Yes, he did. He told me that she had been doing drugs and possibly been drinking, too.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please read entire transcript at:
http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/03/ng.01.html
October 3, 2005

J. TWITTY: Oh, yeah. And they talk four different languages down there. So first of all, there is one gentleman who, if somebody would go back and get Charles Cruse (ph), who was with us that night and who spoke to them away from us for about 10 minutes with the uniformed officers, before he came over and translated what Joran said to us -- and Joran speaks all the languages too. But Charles Cruse (ph), in my mind, holds a lot of keys to what happened that night, or what Joran said

[ Bericht 10% gewijzigd door observer777 op 19-02-2008 01:37:45 ]

From www.nu.nl:

OM Aruba wil Van der Eem verhoren OM Aruba wants to interrogate Patrick van der Eem.
Uitgegeven: 19 februari 2008 06:54
Laatst gewijzigd: 19 februari 2008 07:06

ORANJESTAD - Justitie op Aruba is van plan om Patrick van der Eem (34) als getuige te verhoren in de zaak-Natalee Holloway. Dat hoeft niet op vrijwillige basis te gebeuren, meent hoofdofficier van justitie Hans Mos. The justice department on Aruba plans to interrogate Patrick van der Eem (34) as a witness in the Natalee Holloway-case. According to Hans Mos, this doesnt have to happen on a voluntary basis.
Van der Eem, die verklaringen bij Joran van der Sloot wist te ontlokken in de verdwijningszaak, loopt het risico er tijdelijk voor te worden vastgezet. "Hij heeft al aan vele media zijn verhaal verteld en moet het nu maar eens aan ons uitleggen", aldus Mos dinsdag. Van der Eem, who got some declarations from joran van der sloot about the case, runs the risk of being put in jail for a short time. "He told his story to all kinds of media, now its time he tells us". according to Mos.
De opstelling van justitie verbaast Van der Eem, die op Aruba is om zijn belevenissen als infiltrant door de Amerikaanse schrijfster E.E. Byars (pseud. Elizabeth Byars) voor een boek te laten optekenen. The way OM ARuba is willing to handle this, surprised Van der Eem, who is on Aruba to write a book about his adventures as an infiltrant together with American writer EE Byars (pseud. Elizabeth byars).
"Ik heb niks te verbergen hierin, maar ik kan ook mijn mond houden. Dat zal dan niet de eerste keer zijn dat ik mijn mond hou. Als ze mij vast willen zetten, moeten ze dat maar doen. Je mag het negen dagen proberen. Maar ik sta aan de kant van het OM, ze hoeven alleen maar te bellen om me te vragen en ik zal er zijn." Ive got nothing to hide, but I could also keep my mouth shut. It wouldnt be the first time I say nothing. If they want to incarcerate me, they should do that. You can try for 9 days. But Im on the same side as the OM; all they have to do is call me, ask me to be there and I will be there.
Voor Van der Eem is het boek niet de enige reden om op Aruba te zijn. "Het is ook een geweldig vakantieland. En ik ben hier een groot gedeelte van mijn jeugd opgegroeid, van ongeveer mijn vierde tot twaalfde jaar." According to Van der Eem the book isnt the only reason to be on Aruba. Its great to be here on a holiday. And I grew up here for a big part of my childhood: from when i was 4 till I was 12.
Schrijfster Byars (33) kwam in contact met Van der Eem via de redactie van misdaadverslaggever Peter R. de Vries, voor wie ze vertaalsuggesties deed voor de 'Holloway-uitzending'. Writer Buars (33) came in contact with Van der Eem through crimefighter Peter R de Vries, who she gave some translative suggestions.
Tot nu toe maakte ze slechts fictieverhalen, maar toen het eerste hoofdstuk over Van der Eem af was, wekte dat volgens haar genoeg vertrouwen op. Byars verwacht dat het boek met de titel Disposed in september in de Amerikaanse boekhandels ligt. Until now she only wrote fiction, but finishing the first chapter of Van der Eems book, gave her the confidence to do more.Byars expects the book (with the title "disposed') to be in stores in september.