Staatsgreep in Turkije #60

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 13:58 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Een scheiding van kerk en staat is een scheiding van kerk en staat. Die hoeft zich niet te manifesteren in de persoonlijke sfeer, totdat jij met je persoonlijke sfeer de straat op gaat. Uiteindelijk ben je hoe dan ook onderdeel van een gemeenschap. Daar kan je geen harde grens in stellen. Maar als je als ouder naar de school van je kind gaat, of je bent politieman, dan heb je daar al mee te maken. Als je een islamitische slager bent, mogen dan alleen moslims klant zijn? Daar ga je al.

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:05 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

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De claims van militante en bloeddorstige propagandisten, die je niet snel zou herhalen dus?

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:04 schreef Slayage het volgende:

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prcs dat is wat ik zeg. het is een wettelijk iets, die scheiding en niet te vertalen naar een persoonlijke scheiding

maar genoeg off topic lijkt me

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:07 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

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Een ieder naar draagkracht natuurlijk, Rutte zal het ook wel meer doen dan Micronesië voor zover zij al een bijdrage levert.

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:08 schreef Triggershot het volgende:
[ afbeelding ]

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:17 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

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Turkije wordt ook een belastingstaat.

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:15 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

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Nou ja, ik heb een Mekka verdrag met KB gesloten en daar blijf ik trouw aan, aan zijn loyaliteit twijfel ik niet minder als individu.

SPOILER

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Op zondag 21 augustus 2016 14:20 schreef Triggershot het volgende:

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Aan de veda hutbesi.

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Need for transparency the main lesson from coup attempt, says ex-president

One of the most pressing lessons Turkey must learn from the failed July 15 coup attempt is the need and importance of transparency for a democracy, former Turkish President Abdullah Gül told the Hürriyet Daily News on Aug. 21.

As the former president of Turkey, who also served as prime minister and foreign minister in Justice and Development Party governments, how would you describe what happened in Turkey on July 15?

It has been now more than a month since July 15, when 240 people, the majority of them civilians, were martyred, more than 2,000 wounded were by a group of army personnel, parliament was bombed and cities across the country were terrorized by low-flying jets. The Turkish people immediately took to the streets, squares and highways and thwarted the coup attempt. In spite of the high polarization and deep political divisions we had witnessed previous to the coup attempt, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the government, the social democrat main opposition party, the nationalist movement and the pro-Kurdish opposition, supported by the trade unions, NGOs, business associations and media are now in full solidarity for democracy. Their multimillion rally on Aug. 7, where I was also present, was not only the grand finale of nightly rallies in 81 provinces, but was also a milestone of Turkish democracy, raising my optimism.

When you served as president of Turkey, did you ever see a risk of a coup d’état in your country?

When I was in office until two years ago, I had been asked several times if there was any possibility for a coup d’état in Turkey. My simple and sincere answer was always the same: “It was out of the question.”

I had never thought that, in today’s world, a group of military personnel out of command and control would dare to stage a coup in Turkey. I would have seen such a possibility as an anomaly. Yet, the coup attempt on July 15 proved me wrong to some extent. However, the immediate and spectacular failure of this assault on our democracy justified my confidence in my people’s wisdom in their protection of democracy. The failure of the plot also justified my trust in the maturity and strength of our democratic institutions: the parliament, political parties, media and civil society, which heroically resisted the coup attempt.

What was the reason for your confidence, or was this over-confidence?

The main reason for my confidence is the resilience of Turkish democracy; our democratic legacy that is more than a century old. This legacy had culminated in the popular success of the comprehensive political and economic reforms implemented since 2002 and during the accession negotiations with the EU with the purpose of upgrading and consolidating our democracy. Those responsible for last month’s assault on democracy failed to see this fact.

How would you portray and analyze those who were behind the coup attempt and their intentions?

The statements of the culprits and the documentation clearly signal that most of these criminals belong to the Fethullah Gülen movement. This group is a byproduct of post-Cold War traumas and vacuums. Although it [prevented] to be a civil society movement for decades, it is now apparent that it was originally devised to be a clandestine political organization and ended up spilling the blood of innocent people. This secretive organization exploited the atmosphere of freedom in Turkey. It abused democratic institutions, seduced and wasted thousands of innocent young people and took advantage of the naivety of some philanthropists, fuelled careerist ambitions and infiltrated state organs from the army to the judiciary and civilian life for Machiavellian purposes. They deliberately disguised all their wrongdoings under their so-called divine, superior, final goals.

What is the main lesson one should learn from this episode?

Out of the many lessons we should draw from this episode, one is the importance of transparency for a democracy. Traditional definitions of democracy need to be complemented and enhanced with an element of “transparency.” The democratic credentials of those who pursue hidden agendas in a non-transparent manner should be questioned. On the other hand, it is a vital duty for democratic forces all over the world to safeguard their credibility and solidarity against sly assaults on democracy. Democratic forces should be keen on not creating any political and ideological vacuums to be filled, or pretexts to be used by non-transparent structures poised for violence, be they religious-ethnic extremists, xenophobic demagogues or terrorists and criminals like the plotters in Turkey.

Any other lessons?

The experience of July 15 should also be a lesson to Kurdish political movements in Turkey to get rid of the yoke of the PKK [outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party], another non-transparent terrorist organization, and establish themselves as fully transparent and democratic forces.

How do you consider EU-Turkey relations after the failed coup attempt?

The coup attempt is yet another signal that Turkey and the EU should have continued the accession process sincerely. Therefore, we should point our fingers at those who blocked the membership negotiations between Turkey and the EU on the basis of trivial matters as well. If only they had ceased their short-sighted approach and let the process go on smoothly, this would have further upgraded Turkey’s social, political and judicial standards, including civilian-military relations.

Do you think that the disappointment expressed by the Turkish leadership at the positions of the United States and the Europeans vis-à-vis the coup attempt was justified or was it somewhat out of proportion?

Indeed, it is regretful that many of our allies and friends in the U.S. and Europe made a strategic mistake by failing to understand the situation properly. Many of them succumbed to subjective or secondary, if not irrelevant, elements rather than taking a long-term-oriented and strategic approach toward Turkey. Like many fellow citizens, I was also expecting our allies and friends to take stronger and more principled positions on the side of democracy and the elected government, in tune with the sentiments of the Turkish people in the streets resisting the plotters. Whether they are in favor or not of certain policies and practices of the current government, they had to reject the coup attempt without any hesitation.

This would have provided Western democracies with the necessary credibility and leverage to make their opinions, concerns or suggestions heard and responded to better in Turkey.

Is there a better understanding now?

I am now relieved to see that that many, except some populists or misguided politicians, are gradually rectifying their rhetoric, positions and actions responding to Turkey’s calls.

Of course, more is expected. U.S. Vice President [Joe] Biden’s visit to Ankara this week will be essential in this regard.

How will Turkey recover from the traumatic effects of the coup attempt?

An unprecedented atmosphere of national unity and reconciliation now reigns in Turkey as a reaction to the coup attempt. This should be followed by a righteous application of the measures required by the extraordinary circumstances in a lawful and proportionate manner. Such a new atmosphere could be an opportunity to conceive a refreshed vision of a more predictable democracy based on our universal common values and ideals. Doing so would place Turkey in the new orbit in the 21st century that it deserves. Once, and hopefully very soon, the measures required by the extraordinary circumstances fulfill their mission and normality is restored, a forward-looking approach should be adopted. A new vision envisaging a further upgrading of our democracy and freedoms, the rule of law, inserting more transparency and streamlining civil-military relations could be reflected in a long-awaited modern constitution with all the check and balances in place. A refocus on serious reforms in the economy and education and environmental, scientific and cultural policies at a national level should accompany a political recovery.

As a former foreign minister, do you think the post-July 15 circumstances will have any effects on Turkish diplomacy?

I am very pleased to see that Turkey is already benefiting from the new atmosphere to retake and energize her traditional problem-solving role in the region. This was actually the characteristics of AK Party governments with regard to regional issues, which are now more burning and urgent.

http://www.hurriyetdailyn(...)103080&NewsCatID=341
August/22/2016

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Turkey could become either more democratic or more authoritarian: CHP's Tezcan

While there is an opportunity for Turkey to evolve into a consolidated democracy, it is also at risk of sliding into authoritarianism, according to a spokesperson of the main opposition. ‘The climate of dialogue could lead us to more democracy, but we aren’t underestimating the risks,’ says Bülent Tezcan, a deputy chair of the CHP

The climate of dialogue that has emerged following the July 15 coup attempt could lead Turkey toward a consolidated democracy, said Bülent Tezcan, deputy chair of the opposition Republican People’s party (CHP).

But the risk of a slide into authoritarianism is there as well, according to Tezcan, who said the CHP was not underestimating the risks.

Tell us how the CHP is approaching the post-coup climate of dialogue.

We are approaching it in terms of a healthy democracy in which different views can be debated and where you do not have polarization.

The most important characteristic of democracy is to reach consensus within debates.

Turkey had entered a heavy climate of polarization before July 15. The polarization in politics prevented effective work; we were having difficulty at meeting on common points.

Politics turned into a platform creating problems instead of a platform to solve problems.

July 15 has proved to be an important turning point. The coup plotters hoped to make use of the polarization. Looking at Turkey, they saw half of the nation burning the bridges with the government while that government had declared the other half which did not vote for it as an enemy. The plotters thought there was an unbridgeable contradiction between the two and said, “If we were to resort to undemocratic methods, that other half will support us.”

They saw this polarized environment as a guarantee to their success. But both the government and the opposition stood against the coup, which disrupted the game plan of the coup plotters. The coup failed because of the culture of compromise.

Where is this climate is headed?

We said there are three phases after the coup, finding those responsible, normalization and democratization. We are hoping this climate will take us on a path where we can build a strong democracy.

If we cannot succeed in this endeavor, it will prove very easy to slide toward polarization again. In order to avoid that, we need to turn this climate of compromise into an opportunity in a very fast way by moving toward more democracy.

Can you tell us how the work is proceeding at the commission that was established in parliament?

We started work on a mini-constitution package. The main target is to reach a consensus on the judiciary. We have seen something during the work of the two commissions that was previously established on the constitution: when we try to go on prioritizing the points we disagree on, that takes us nowhere. Then we have to look where we can agree. What is the priority area? We saw that the problem of the judiciary is a burning priority.

I have to say that there is one party [pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Democratic Party – HDP] missing. All parties in parliament should be in this commission. But the opportunity is still not missed.

At any rate, we have the impression that we can reach an outcome. We have decided on certain principles. We want the parliament to be much more effective in the [composition] of judicial organs. We agreed on the need, for example, to have a system that will prevent the institutions in the judiciary from being divided into camps, a system that will secure the independence of the judiciary. Following the agreement on the principles, we will start working on the details and in the end, we will come up with a new HSYK [High Council of Judges and Prosecutors] and court system. We have started from an optimistic point and we hope to continue this optimism. But this optimism does not mean we are underestimating the risks.

Do you think the government seems to have taken lessons from the past? What is the reason for your optimism?

Looking at signs and dialogue, we see a sense of having learned from the past. But what will be the outcome of these lessons? Will we end up setting up a democratic institution open to checks or will that make the government more introverted? In other words, will they end up saying, “We shared the power with this group, who then turned against us, so now let’s not share power and just accumulate it in one hand.”
This process could lead to both points.

As of now, you can’t tell which way this process will go?

From the point of the mini-constitution commission, we have attained a common working language. But we would be making a mistake if we were to make our conclusions looking to just the workings of the commission. Look at the implementations of the state of emergency, for instance. From day one, we said there was no need for a state of emergency.

How is the CHP planning to continue from now on?

We want this climate of dialogue to continue. But that does not mean there is no room for debate. We said no to the state of emergency. But it passed through parliament. Now we are following the implementation. There are five decrees by the power of law [KHK]. Some of them stipulate permanent changes in terms of the structuring of the state, like the one on the army. These permanent changes need to be done by law, not by the KHK. We told the government that we were ready to provide support in parliament to talk about them. The restrictions on fundamental freedoms, long detention periods are not practices that are in conformity with the climate that averted the coup.

The KHKs need to be debated in the parliament. The government needs to cease seeking to make the changes it wants via the KHK.

Some might think that the government is using the CHP; it cooperates when it suits its interests and abstains from doing so when it does not.

Consensus building does not mean surrender. It’s not like we accept everything the government says for the sake of not spoiling the climate. In the past, there was a rhetoric of contention which made it difficult to meet on a framework. Today, the doors of dialogue are open. But we are not delusional. We are not underestimating the risks. There is a window of opportunity for this process to evolve into a consolidation of democracy. But there is also the risk of this process evolving into authoritarianism. We see mixed signals coming from the government. In the past, some governments have seen such crises as an opportunity for authoritarianism. The way to stop that is to keep the lines of communication open.

There is fear that the purges that have started against the Fetullahist Terror Organization (FETÖ) will also target other dissidents.

That’s why we underline the importance of the law. Another issue we underline is the state’s encouragement of snitching. Some of the practices could lead to a witch hunt. Sending your children to a specific school should not be sufficient reason to be the subject of investigation.

Do you think there is a currently witch hunt?

We feel that this is getting out of control. When you look at the numbers, you can’t say all of them are member of the terror organization. It might be too soon to say there is a witch hunt, but we are on a dangerous course; we see detentions just because of some social media postings. We relate our concerns to the government, and they do accept that there are deviations from some to time.

Do you think your criticism is having an impact, or is it falling on deaf ears?

We need to wait a little bit more to see the results.

Is your constituency happy with your compromise stance with the government?

It’s not just the CHP; the AKP constituency is also happy about this climate.

But CHP voters were absent from the so-called democracy demonstrations that have taken place throughout the month.

Everybody was on the street the first night, including CHP voters. But afterwards these demonstrations turned into rallies of a political party, so our voters preferred not to go.

There are rumors that some within the party are unhappy with the CHP standing next to the AKP.

Some might be wanting us to display a combative rhetoric. Some might want us to accuse the government over and over again saying, “It was you who joined hands with the [Gülenist] brotherhood; it was you who placed [Gülenists] in important places. Hearing that might please some of our constituency. But the issue is not saying what pleases [some people] but saying something that can bring about results.

What is your view about the Western reaction to the coup?

We expected a clearer stance. They should have first stood in a clear way against the coup and then voiced their concerns. Unfortunately, they first voiced their concerns and then voiced their stance against coups.

Why so?

They all have certain expectations as far as this region is concerned. Perhaps they waited to get a certain position.

What will your approach be? Are you planning to reach out to the world to explain your case?

Turkey’s orientation has been toward the West. This is not a geographical orientation; it is about modernization. Turkey’s Westernization will continue. We will be talking with our interlocutors and this is what we will say: Turkey is a democratic country, a country that wants its democracy consolidated. Turkey’s position within the West is not something that can be easily disrupted. We want to consolidate Turkish democracy and we want the support of the West.

Do you have some resentment or anger toward the West?

There is no sense in having emotional stances in international relations.

http://www.hurriyetdailyn(...)103083&NewsCatID=338

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Op maandag 22 augustus 2016 14:12 schreef Slayage het volgende:
hoe stop je een colonne pantservoertuigen? nieuwe beelden avond van de coup

https://www.facebook.com/trthaber/videos/1279897528695262/