dit klopt allemaal nietquote:Op woensdag 14 mei 2014 22:55 schreef deelnemer het volgende:
[..]
Dat staat er ook niet.
[..]
De rol van de NAVO was defensief: het beschermen van W-Europa tov de Sovjiet unie (de koude oorlogsituatie). De rol van de NAVO waar jij het over hebt (een offensieve rol) is daarna pas gekomen. Ook in Nederland in het leger daarop aangepast. Het moet overal inzetbaar zijn (A Rapid deployment force). In de koude oorlog hadden wij nog een volksleger, militaire dienstplicht en zag men de taak van het leger als zuiver defensief.
Het land moet zich kunnen ontwikkelen.. Het kan zijn lot niet vastklinken aan de de RF. Het hoeft ook niet te kiezen tussen de EU en de RF. Toetreding tot de EU sowieso nog lang niet mogelijk.quote:Op woensdag 14 mei 2014 22:39 schreef Skillsy het volgende:
[..]
Deelnemer, wat zou jouw oplossing voor Oekrane zijn?
zou kunne , Poetin kiest voor de langzaam aan tactiek , als Oekraine maar niet lid van de NAVO gaat wordenquote:Op woensdag 14 mei 2014 22:41 schreef Nintex het volgende:
Het is opvallend stil, zouden Kiev en Moskou in achterkamertjes druk aan het overleggen zijn?
haha zie die vent dan met zn mes zwaaien op de maat van de muziek wtfquote:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27403109quote:Talks to end the crisis in Ukraine have begun in Kiev, brokered by international monitors, but pro-Russian rebels are not represented.
Ukraine's interim leaders and other public figures are at the talks, which are part of an OSCE roadmap plan.
The "national unity round table" was meant to be as inclusive as possible.
The interim government has said the annexation of Crimea by Russia this year cost Ukraine at least 1tn hryvnya (49.3bn; $83bn; 60.5bn euros).
A day earlier, Ukraine's military suffered its heaviest losses to the rebels so far in the fighting in the east, where rebels control a number of towns.
Seven soldiers were killed when rebels ambushed an armoured personnel carrier near the town of Kramatorsk in Donetsk region, according to the defence ministry. One rebel is said to have also died.
Donetsk and the neighbouring region of Luhansk have declared themselves separate from Ukraine after referendums deemed illegal by Kiev, the US and EU, but Russia said it "respected" the votes
Oke dit vind ik wel fair. Maar denk je dat het haalbaar is op korte termijn? Ga jij ff het Oekranse volk helpenquote:Op woensdag 14 mei 2014 23:17 schreef deelnemer het volgende:
[..]
Het land moet zich kunnen ontwikkelen.. Het kan zijn lot niet vastklinken aan de de RF. Het hoeft ook niet te kiezen tussen de EU en de RF. Toetreding tot de EU sowieso nog lang niet mogelijk.
Het probleem is dat Oekraine zelf politieke en economisch slecht functioneert. De overgang / aanpassing na het uiteenvallen van de Sovjet unie heeft nog niet geleid tot een goed spoor. De bevolking heeft groot gelijk, dat zij genoeg heeft van die oligarchen en de corruptie. Er moet een beter bestuur / beleid komen. Het land moet gemoderniseerd worden. De pummels in het oosten, met hun hang na de glorie dagen van de Sovjet Unie, laten zich inpakken. Modernisering betekent niet dat men moet streven na een culturele eenvormigheid (een taal, een geloof). Dit soort natievorming roept teveel weerstand op. Kiev moet dat soort natievorming niet nastreven.
Modernisering is een moeizaam proces, waarin onderwijs, rechtstaat, inspraak, decentralisatie, investeringen een rol spelen. Het is jammer dat externe partijen daarin proberen Oekraine een bepaald blok in te duwen (Eurazie of EU) en Oekraine onderdeel wordt een spel tussen machtsblokken. Dat bevordert de corruptie.
Het moderniseren van de landbouw lijkt mij in Oekraine een goed begin. Meer sociale wetgeving om de overgang te verzachten en niet teveel crony kapitalisme lijkt me ook verstandig. Als iedereen merkt dat je samen het land gaat opbouwen, men het beter krijgt, hun kinderen kansen hebben op een betere toekomst en men de verliezers niet aan hun lot overlaat, kan er een goede sfeer ontstaan.
twitter:ChristopherJM twitterde op woensdag 14-05-2014 om 23:06:38Deep in the Ukrainian woods with Donbass Battalion, an armed militia unit fighting for a united #Ukraine. http://t.co/Yv1CozT8KR reageer retweet
twitter:paulrbrennan twitterde op woensdag 14-05-2014 om 23:35:05@ChristopherJM I reported from funeral of a #Ukraine soldier today, and think perhaps the militia 'arms-race' is becoming a major problem. reageer retweet
twitter:ChristopherJM twitterde op woensdag 14-05-2014 om 23:48:28@paulrbrennan Absolutely it is. And it may get worse yet. reageer retweet
De ontwikkelingen verklaren is altijd lastig, zo niet onmogelijk. Als jij zegt dat Joegoslavie niet de reden is van deze nieuwe rol, maar de eerste casus, verklaar dan maar eens waarom het zolang duurde voordat men militair ingreep. Want achteraf raakte mensen ervan overtuigt dat het conflict in de kiem gemoord had kunnen worden, als men direct Belgrado gebombardeerd had toen Servie Zagreb (Kroatie) bombardeerde. Maar men gaf Slobodan Miloević vrij spel.quote:Op woensdag 14 mei 2014 23:00 schreef sp3c het volgende:
[..]
dit klopt allemaal niet
ik weet niet zo goed wat ik hier nog meer van moet zeggen, Bosnie (niet Kosovo, dat kwam later) was niet de reden om dingen anders te doen maar de plek waar dit voor het eerst echt goed tot uiting is gekomen
Somalia was nog eerder, dat was niet onder de NATO vlag maar qua doctrine komt het wel overeen
twitter:gbazov twitterde op woensdag 14-05-2014 om 23:41:41#UKRAINE #ODESSA Pro-Kiev column of armoured vehicles spotted heading toward Odessa. via http://t.co/EH17jDLM4M reageer retweet
twitter:IndependentKrym twitterde op woensdag 14-05-2014 om 23:52:17@GrahamWP_UK there's reported ongoing clashes in Starovarvarovka (forest area) 30 kilometers from Kramatorsk. reageer retweet
twitter:Truth_Seeker_11 twitterde op woensdag 14-05-2014 om 23:55:41@IndependentKrym @GrahamWP_UK apparently national guard is doing house to house searches looking for militia in Starovarvarovka reageer retweet
twitter:GrahamWP_UK twitterde op woensdag 14-05-2014 om 23:48:37Coming back to #Slavyansk this eve, some signs of Ukrainian military moving in the area, this back towards #Kharkiv. http://t.co/thccDG1vM0 reageer retweet
het duurde zolang omdat de keten te lang wasquote:Op woensdag 14 mei 2014 23:58 schreef deelnemer het volgende:
[..]
De ontwikkelingen verklaren is altijd lastig, zo niet onmogelijk. Als jij zegt dat Joegoslavie niet de reden is van deze nieuwe rol, maar de eerste casus, verklaar dan maar eens waarom het zolang duurde voordat men militair ingreep. Want achteraf raakte mensen ervan overtuigt dat het conflict in de kiem gemoord had kunnen worden, als men direct Belgrado gebombardeerd had toen Servie Zagreb (Kroatie) bombardeerde. Maar men gaf Slobodan Miloević vrij spel.
Concert Kramatorsk waarbij Legendary Babaya.Krasavchikquote:
geruchten over "massacre" in Starovarvarovka, 2 uur geleden "heavy clashes",twitter:EuromaidanPR twitterde op donderdag 15-05-2014 om 00:06:48Battle near #Kramatorsk is going on right now, Ministry of Defense reports http://t.co/BGRoDnM8Gy | EMPR News #Ukraine reageer retweet
Lugansk:twitter:IndependentKrym twitterde op donderdag 15-05-2014 om 00:34:05#Starovarvarovka after skirmish,Kievforces encircled town,RS searched houses for"separatists",killed&looted. might try blame it on DNRforces reageer retweet
twitter:Syricide twitterde op donderdag 15-05-2014 om 00:28:42#Ukraine's Interior Ministry deny knowledge of #Krasnoarmeysk gunmen identities http://t.co/9v56GE6wGX @OnlineMagazin @bibodude @olfashdeb reageer retweet
rest v artikel: Putin, gelijkaardige situatie in Tsjetseense oorlog, Simon Ostrovsky van Vice...quote:In Ukrainian media, an uncivil war of words
KIEV—It’s too early to call the Ukrainian conflict a civil war, but fierce verbal fighting has already started between newsrooms all over the country. Amid newfound post-revolutionary freedoms, local journalists are struggling to find a balance between being “patriotic” and unbiased.
Should the Ukrainian government revoke visas of all foreign journalists refusing to use the word ‘terrorist’ in their Eastern Ukraine coverage? That’s the view of a group of 10 local journalists, including a couple of high-profile names, like Natalka Zubar, editor in chief of the “Maidan” website and a well-known civil rights campaigner, who made the request of officials in a recent public letter, published on Facebook and Maidanua.org. It generally reflects a larger and contentious debate journalists and their audience are now having on a daily basis now in Ukraine.
The use of the word “terrorist” is the hottest of the hot buttons. Amid a so-called “anti-terrorism operation” in Eastern Ukraine, local officials have used the word a lot to describe pro-Russia rebels and their supporters. “I call on the security bodies to resume and carry out successful anti-terrorist measures aimed at defending Ukrainian citizens living in the east of Ukraine against terrorists,” Ukrainian interim president Turchynov said in a recent statement. “The Russian Federation has a new product for export. Besides of oil and gas exports, Russia has begun to export terrorism to Ukraine,” the Prime Minister of Ukraine said of the Government secession in describing the unfolding conflict in Eastern Ukraine back in April. These statements ignore the reality that the Eastern Ukrainian rebellion also has some support from the general, unarmed population.
Mainstream media got on board with government authorities very quickly and early and began to describe Eastern Ukraine rebels as “terrorists.” All popular media outlets in Ukraine, from websites to evening news shows, now commonly use the “t-word” in their headlines and scripts.
Predictably, the hot-button word has generated pushback, particularly among audiences in rebellious Eastern Ukraine. The other day I witnessed a feisty debate on Ukraine’s most popular news-radio show about what to call rebels and their supporters. Its anchorwoman, Marta Molfar, made a live on-air confession: “Sometimes our listeners would write to me saying, ‘Why are you calling those people separatists or terrorists?’ So I’ve switched to other, more neutral words, but then got a lot of different messages with demands to put ‘separatist/terrorist’ words back,” she said. She added: “I’m confused now.”
One of the show’s guests, Ukrainian journalist Dmytriy Lytvyn, fired back: “Peaceful people sit at home. If those unarmed people joined terrorists in helping them out they are no longer ‘peaceful,’ they become a part of those terrorist groups.”
And in a public video appeal to Ukrainian journalists, Tetyana Kotyuzhynska, a top lawyer from the Ukrainian National Union of Journalists, insisted that colleagues must use “terrorist” when describing rebels in Eastern Ukraine. “Let’s be honest, what is happening in Donbass is terrorism. That’s not our assumption; those actions fit the description of terrorism given by Ukrainian law.” She goes so far as to warn that local reporters could themselves be prosecuted by Ukrainian authorities for giving “terrorists” an opportunity to speak. “When you let terrorists publicly voice their position, you become a terrorist too, and there is a punishment for that in Ukrainian law,” she said, adding that local journalists must be aware and comprehend the fact that in times of war and national-security and public-safety threats, freedom of speech and press freedoms can lawfully be limited. And this from the lawyer whose job is to protect freedoms of Ukrainian journalists.
[..]
Maar Paris-Match blijkbaar wel:twitter:Syricide twitterde op donderdag 15-05-2014 om 00:28:42#Ukraine's Interior Ministry deny knowledge of #Krasnoarmeysk gunmen identities http://t.co/9v56GE6wGX @OnlineMagazin @bibodude @olfashdeb reageer retweet
http://www.parismatch.com(...)ransnoarmeisk-564090quote:KIEV, March 22, /ITAR-TASS/. Members of Ukraine’s far-right group Right Sector set up a political party on Saturday, March 22, giving it the same name.
The party was created on the basis of the Ukrainian National Assembly (UNA). “The political party Right Sector has been created on the basis of the Ukrainian National Assembly, which changed its name to Right Sector. The party has also incorporated other nationalist groups which support the Right Sector movement. Dmitry Yarosh has been elected its leader,” UNA representative Andrei Denisenko said.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/724907
https://t.co/lR9hGS4ZKYquote:Very important! From small Igor Ivanovich. On the situation in the settlements Starovarvarovka.
May 15, 2014 00 h 30 min.
"According to reports, in the settlement of Starovarvarovka natsgvardeytsy" right sector "massacred the local population and looting. Our troops are not there - especially specify. But ukrSMI report that there is" surrounded and annihilated squad separatists. "Perhaps under the case will be announced tomorrow about the "atrocities of terrorists." "
Repost! Tonight was kidnapped Irina Poltoratskaya - Coordinator Torez militia. Call us at tel. 095-642-8659twitter:dnrpress twitterde op donderdag 15-05-2014 om 01:52:14РЕПОСТ!!!Сегодня ночью была похищена Полторацкая Ирина - координатор ополчения г.Торез. Звоните по тел. 095-642-8659 http://t.co/xaQ5fSWm4l reageer retweet
Ook grappig, yats' hoofd:quote:
Why Is “F’k The EU” ‘Jewish’ Victoria Nuland Pictured With #Ukraine’s Nazi Party Leader, SMILING?
Why Is “F’k The EU” ‘Jewish’ Victoria Nuland Pictured With #Ukraine’s Nazi Party Leader SMILING? We, here on this blog take up the cause of white Americans but we certainly HATE NAZI-ism.
According to Victoria Nuland’s Wiki page: Religion Judaism Click.
There are 2 things I absolutely hate in this life: Communism & Nazi-ism. And, often, we find they are strange bedfellows, right next to Jihadi-Islam. What is incomprehensible to me is to see a ‘Jewish’ person so slap happy, standing next to Neo Nazi Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok in this picture: (He is on the left)
For someone who says “F’k the EU”, she seems to embrace the same humans who f’d our people. She should resign, as should John McCain. For the life of me, I can never understand these types of “Jews” who always make buddies with people that would LOVE to murder them. Like Max Blumenthal, who is endorsed by David Duke. Nuland’s excuse will be that she ‘didn’t know’, we say garbage: Victoria most certainly DID know.
quote:Russian Train Bearing Soviet Symbols Halted in Lithuania
May 14, 2014 • From theTrumpet.com
Border guards at Lithuania’s Kybartai railway checkpoint stopped a train from Kaliningrad, Russia, from entering their nation on Monday because it was adorned with Soviet symbols.
Windows in the chartered train were plastered with posters of Soviet symbols, which are illegal in Lithuania. They’re illegal because Lithuania—like the nation of Ukraine—was part of the Soviet Union for decades, and suffered under ussr oppression.
“It was a terrible 50 years for us in Lithuania,” Sara Linkevičiūtė, a resident of Vilnius, told theTrumpet.com on May 14. “Citizens were deported to Siberia for genocide,” she said, explaining that she and her compatriots would do whatever is necessary to prevent Lithuania from returning to its dark Soviet chapter.
Ukraine is currently being destabilized primarily by a Russian desire to rebuild its old Soviet Empire. And some are worried that Lithuania and other former-Soviet nations of Eastern Europe could be next. This is why the Lithuanian border guards viewed the Soviet symbols on the Russian train warily. After officials removed the posters, the train and over 200 Russian passengers were permitted to leave the Kybartai checkpoint.
Russia’s aggression in Ukraine has Europeans on edge in Lithuania and beyond. The Crimean crisis truly is a global game changer. To understand more about this geopolitical sea change, and what it means for the Lithuanians and other Europeans, check out our exclusive interview from last week with Lithuania’s vice foreign minister.
Het beperken van de vrijheden van het internet voor inwoners en burgers is een slechte zaak, zowel Turkije , Iran Of Rusland. Het zijn landen die haar inwoners geen vrije ruimte geeft, om via internet vrij te discussieren of bewijsmateriaal te verbergenquote:Op woensdag 14 mei 2014 15:24 schreef meth1745 het volgende:
of vergelijken met de zuiveringen onder Stalin is niet meer dan propaganda, en die propaganda is mede de reden waarom Rusland met nieuwe wetten komt die de vrijheden verder beperken.
De OIekraiense overheid is nu geneigd onofficiele milities in te zetten. Met het reguliere leger is moeilijk te opereren. De nationale garde handelt nog steeds in naam van de overheid. Milities kunnen veel gemakkelijker optreden tegen de milities van de tegenpartij. Daardoor ontstaat een soort proxy oorlog, waarin de Oekrainese & Rusische overheid buitenschot blijven.quote:Ukraine civil war fears mount as volunteer units take up arms
The men, dressed in irregular fatigues and with balaclavas pulled over their heads, fingered their Kalashnikovs nervously and jumped at every unusual sound. Eager to aid their country's military struggle, the so-called Donbas Volunteer Battalion was ready to fight, but appeared to be short on training.
The battalion commander, Semyon Semenchenko, a 40-year-old from Donetsk with a degree in film-making, insisted that he and all his men had combat experience, from the Ukrainian or Soviet armies. They are all volunteers, receiving zero salary from either the state or oligarchs, he said, claiming they live off their own savings and donations from patriotic Ukrainians, who transfer them money after reading about them on social media.
"Our state needs defending, and we decided that if the army could not do it, we should do it ourselves," said Semenchenko, during a meeting with the Guardian outside the town of Mariupol, where his men were based and offering support to regular units of the Ukrainian army in their fight against armed separatists in the region.
quote:Russia ‘open’ to gas price negotiations with Ukraine, if they start to repay debt
Russia will continue gas price negotiations with Ukraine on the condition that the country begins to pay off its massive $3.5 billion debt to Gazprom, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev told journalists on Wednesday.
Gazprom, Russia’s largest natural gas producer, has currently priced Ukrainian gas at $485 per 1,000 cubic meters, after canceling two discounts. Kiev is complaining that the new price doesn’t reflect market conditions and is politically motivated.
"Of course it is possible. It's a question for negotiations,” the Prime Minister said in a question and answer session with reporters.
“We hope our European friends will force Ukraine to begin to pay ‘Gazprom’ using a portion of the money it has received,” Medvedev said, in reference to the $3.2 billion tranche of aid it received from the International Monetary Fund on May 7.
quote:Reuters: Ukraine says ready to pay Russia $4 billion by end of May for gas
Ukraine is ready to pay Russia $4 billion for gas supplies by the end of May, Deputy Energy Minister Ihor Didenko said on May 15, adding that Kyiv used $268.5 per 1,000 cubic metres as the base price to calculate the sum.
Mwah, Kiev zal echt wel worden aangesproken op wandaden van de pro-Kiev milities, hoor.quote:Op donderdag 15 mei 2014 13:26 schreef deelnemer het volgende:
[..]
De OIekraiense overheid is nu geneigd onofficiele milities in te zetten. Met het Reguliere leger is moeilijk te opereren. De nationale gaarde handeld nog steed in naam van de overheid. Milities kunnen veel gemakkelijker optreden tegen de milities van de tegenpartij. Daardoor ontstaat een soort proxy oorlog, waarin de Oekrainese & Rusische overheid buitenschot blijven.
Forum Opties | |
---|---|
Forumhop: | |
Hop naar: |