Crisis in Syrië # 73

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Op zaterdag 5 oktober 2013 22:50 schreef DeToffifee het volgende:

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Ik geloof de VN. Die geloofde jij eerst ook, totdat het je niet uitkwam wat de uitslag was.

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Op zaterdag 5 oktober 2013 23:01 schreef Whiskers2009 het volgende:

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Nee, ik las me in..

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Op zaterdag 5 oktober 2013 20:49 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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2: In mijn ogen ben je pas pro-bevolking als je pro Assad bent.

Kijk hiermee zeg ik niet dat Assad een goede vent is, integendeel. Het is alleen in mijn ogen het beste van het slechtste.

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Op zaterdag 5 oktober 2013 20:49 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

2: In mijn ogen ben je pas pro-bevolking als je pro Assad bent.

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 10:18 schreef Slayage het volgende:

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zo had ik het nooit bekeken, dus ik zou een tiran moeten steunen om de bevolking te steunen?

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 10:18 schreef Slayage het volgende:

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zo had ik het nooit bekeken, dus ik zou een tiran moeten steunen om de bevolking te steunen?

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 10:18 schreef Slayage het volgende:

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zo had ik het nooit bekeken, dus ik zou een tiran moeten steunen om de bevolking te steunen?

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 11:01 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

Zo ziek is de situatie daar inderdaad.

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 12:15 schreef Slayage het volgende:

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wat maakt assad dan het minst kwade, zoals jij het stelt?

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 12:19 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Deze vraagstelling is verkeerd.

Het gaat erom dat dat als Assad zou vallen dat dan islamitische extremisten aan de macht komen. Assad is een tiran, maar wel een tiran die nog relatief goed is voor de minderheden in Syrië.

Als het van de extremistische moslims afhangt gaan die er allemaal aan.

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 12:30 schreef Slayage het volgende:

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je herhaalt assads propaganda die hij sinds het begin van de opstand roept, "jullie (minderheden) hebben mij nodig deze strijd te overleven" zo heeft hij de de sektarische kaart gespeeld en blijft em spelen,w at uiteindelijk heeft geleid tot iets wat het in het begin niet was een sektarisch conflict

maar mijn vraag blijft staan, jij zegt dat assad het minst kwade is, wat maakt hem het mindere kwaad dan?

daarnaast zijn het aannames, die je maakt wanneer de assad valt zullen de extremisten aan de macht komen (dit betwijfel ik) daarnaast zeg je dat deze extremisten de minderheden gaan afmaken, represailles gebeuren nu ook over en weer, daar zal nooit iets aan veranderen, de buit is voor de winnaar en de verliezer gaat door het stof, ik vind dat een merkwaardige argument, tenzij uiteraard je zegt dat een persoon uit een minderheidsgroep (christen/allawie) meer waard is dan een persoon uit de meerderheidsgroep (soennie)

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A high-level security source in Damascus said the Assad regime hopes the rebels will "eventually ask the army for help to fight ISIL".

Havidar said many were "terrified to speak out" against the group.

"But they will eventually," he said.

"The problem is Assad's regime is still standing, and it is fighting everyone but ISIL, because it is doing exactly what it wants.

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Qaeda in Syria bids to control Iraq, Turkey borders

By Serene ASSIR (AFP) – 20 hours ago

Beirut — Al-Qaeda in Syria is fighting to drive rivals out of areas bordering Turkey and Iraq in a bid to control territory stretching from Iraq into northern Syria, various sources say.

Across the north and east, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) has set up checkpoints on roads to border crossings, and opened fronts to crush other rebel groups fighting to oust President Bashar al-Assad.

Residents have told AFP of a strategy that involves ISIL taking over resources and routes using brutal methods aimed at forcing the population into submission.

Analysts and activists on the ground have also noted the tactic.

"ISIL has been acting in such a way as to aggressively assert itself within the complex multi-dimensional insurgent theatres in northern and eastern Syria," said Charles Lister of IHS Jane's Terrorism and Insurgency Centre.

Jihadists have even sought to justify the strategy on Internet forums by accusing Western-backed groups, including Ahfad al-Rasul and the Northern Storm brigade, of acting like the US-funded "Sahwa" who fought Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

But Lister said ISIL had adopted a "perceivable strategy of acquiring and consolidating control of areas on Syria's borders with both Iraq and Turkey", ever since it came on the scene in the late spring.

"This allows the group easy access to new recruits, sources of funding and supplies," he told AFP.

"It's by no means impossible that it intends to put a stranglehold on the ability of moderates (rebels) to secure sustainable levels of supplies from across the borders," Lister added.

Havidar, a Kurdish-Syrian activist and citizen journalist who has covered fighting between ISIL and Kurds, said ISIL's endgame was to establish an Islamic state.

"ISIL doesn't have an ideological problem with the Kurds or with anyone else. It just wants no other group to have any arms or self-sufficiency, to create a state that extends from northern Syria into Iraq," he told AFP.

Another activist in Raqa, near the Turkish border, said it was now virtually impossible to leave Syria without crossing through one of their checkpoints.

ISIL has a grip on Raqa, the only provincial capital in Syria that is completely out of Assad's control.

Simmering tension boils over

Though tensions between it and other rebel groups -- even Islamists -- have simmered for months, the opposition has sought to keep that antagonism buried.

But ISIL's takeover of the border town of Azaz in mid-September, at the expense of the area's Northern Storm brigade, brought tensions to a head.

This week, six Islamist groups with a nationwide presence, including Liwa al-Tawhid, Jaysh al-Islam and Ahrar al-Sham, urged ISIL to withdraw from Azaz.

A fighter with one of these groups said: "ISIL has succeeded... in making enemies with all the factions, including the Islamist groups."

Speaking on condition of anonymity, he said ISIL aimed to "take control, but that is not going to happen, because the factions... are aware of what that means, especially after the Iraqi experience".

Some Sunnis who opposed the US-led invasion of Iraq were supportive of insurgents including those linked to Al-Qaeda, but tribesmen, some militants and civilians later turned against the group over killings and other abuses it carried out.

A humanitarian aid worker based on the Turkish border with Syria warned that ISIL's strategy threatens the entire population.

The ongoing closure of the Bab al-Salameh border area near Azaz by the Turks after ISIL-rebel clashes there "has and will affect the movement of people and goods", she said on condition of anonymity.

"This ISIL takeover of checkpoints near the border will severely effect not just Azaz and the neighbouring towns, but the governorate of Aleppo as a whole."

But so far, despite antagonism from an array of rebel and Kurdish groups against ISIL, it is unclear how and when they will act to stop it.

A high-level security source in Damascus said the Assad regime hopes the rebels will "eventually ask the army for help to fight ISIL".

Havidar said many were "terrified to speak out" against the group.

"But they will eventually," he said.

"The problem is Assad's regime is still standing, and it is fighting everyone but ISIL, because it is doing exactly what it wants."

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 12:38 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Kijk, het is slechts een subjectieve observatie he.

Vanuit mijn observatie is het beter als Assad aan de macht blijft. Aangezien er anders islamitische extremisten aan de macht komen. Want een democratie is in Syrië gewoon onmogelijk.

Het feit is gewoon dat minderheden het relatief goed hebben onder Asad zijn bewind. Als het van islamitische groeperingen afhangt gaan niet alleen die maar iedereen die anders denkt dan hen eraan.

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 13:01 schreef Slayage het volgende:

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waarom is een democratie onmogelijk? ik vind dat neerbuigend naar de syriers toe, democratie is een manier van bestuur en elk land zal vroeg of laat die stap maken, maar het is iets wat decennia of eeuwen nodig heeft om echt volwassen/goed functionerend te zijn

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 13:06 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Ooit zal Syrië inderdaad een democratie kunnen worden. Maar de komende weet ik hoeveel jaar nog niet.

Allemaal leuk en aardig dat Syrië over 100 jaar een democratie kan worden maar daar hebben ze nu weinig aan .

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 13:09 schreef Slayage het volgende:

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dus nog eens 50 jaar een assad steunen, die helemaal niets zal doen om een modern/politiek systeem op te bouwen is een goede optie voor jou, tot dusver je idealen dan

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Inside Syria's model town: Peace, until al-Qaeda arrived
The residents of Yabroud have established an independent government that manages everything from schools, the court and emergency services to humanitarian aid and defence. It is remarkably efficient – as long as they can keep al-Qaeda out.

When the men of al-Qaeda came to the mountain town of Yabroud they wasted no time in making their ambitions clear.
Two foreign jihadists, their explosive belts clearly visible over their black uniforms, entered the mosque where Muslim residents were observing Friday prayers. The congregation watched, horrified, as the men stormed to the palpate and ordered the imam to leave.
They would be giving the sermons now, the al-Qaeda operatives explained; as has happened in many other towns and villages in Syria, the worshippers were to live under their "black flag". Yabroud, they said, should be part of a wider Islamic caliphate.
As the words sunk in, the frightened hush that had fallen on the crowd in the mosque gave way to anger. Dissenting voices shouted at the suicide bombers. They were quickly joined by others, until, in a crescendo of furious yells, the worshippers faced down their occupiers. The al-Qaeda men, wild eyed and angry, were forced to retreat, the implied threat of the suicide vests never acted upon.
Though the incident happened in September, it remained the main the talk of the town when last week The Telegraph visited Yabroud, north of Damascus.

"Al-Qaeda came here to control us," said Dia'a, 32, a male resident who had been in mosque that day. "We told them that we have our own people to preach to us. We told them we didn't need them; we know what Islam is."
In the two years since it fell out of the grip of President Bashar al-Assad, Yabroud has avoided the fate that has crippled so many other parts of rebel held Syria. Its residents have kept out foreign jihadists and avoided succumbing to warlords and mafia gangs. They have refused to allow the community to be torn apart by sectarianism or by a primordial scramble for money and power.
This moderate Sunni and Christian town, with its neat rows of houses and tidy tree-lined streets, has remained exemplary of the ideals of the peace activists who began the civil uprising against a dictatorship in 2011. It is a place where civilians, not armed fighters, have taken control of the town's future, and brought a working alternative to Assad's government. Yabroud is the model town of what the Syrian revolution could be.
The town had even escaped the attentions of the Assad regime, most likely because one third of its population are Christian – one of the minorities in Syria, which the government says it wants to defend.
But that in the last month that has changed. For the first time Yabroud finds itself fighting a war on two fronts. At night it has started to suffer night-time barrages of rocket attacks by the Syrian army, by day it's residents battle to avoid the threat of occupation by al-Qaeda.
From the beginning of the Syrian uprising, as anti-government protesters took to the streets, Yabroud's businessmen and educated elite began putting together an independent council to manage the city.
"The idea was to start a new government that leaves us free of needing the regime," explained Majid Jumaa, the head of the town's civilian council.
Using funds supplied by expatriate businessmen, local and foreign charities, the residents have established an independent government that manages everything from schools, the court and emergency services to humanitarian aid and defence.
It's leaders were elected in a democratic ballot. They even answer to the Syrian National Coalition, the Western-backed opposition in exile that has been shunned and deemed impotent by much of rebel-held Syria.
It was late at night when The Telegraph visited, but the council building was in a flurry of activity. Several council members sat in a side room, the door closed, deep in discussion. A large flow chart pinned to the wall detailed the hierarchy of the more than a dozen departments. The head of the finance department sat at a central table, gravely reviewing figures.
He was interrupted by men who required his signature on a steady stream of receipts. "We even have our own stamp," councillors showed The Telegraph proudly.
The effects of this efficient bureaucracy are easily seen. Traffic police and rubbish collection men are visible on the streets. The field hospital has become the main medical point for all opposition held villages in the province.
Yabroud bustles with community spirit. In the main shopping thoroughfare mothers stood in the vegetable market gossiping to each other as their children chased cats on the streets. Three elderly men sat outside a barber's shop purveying the scene. Guns are not welcome here, with rebel fighters ordered to leave their weapons at home or at a rebel military base, all of them located outside the town.
Residents have also established a charity, al-Khayer, which is feeding and providing shelter for at least 27,000 refugees, many of who have fled to Yabroud from other war-torn areas.
The Telegraph watched as volunteer employees distributed boxes of food aid – pasta, cans of tomato and tuna, rice – to refugees from the neighbouring town of Qusair that was destroyed in fighting.
Elsewhere, two female volunteers sorted through clothes that had been newly donated for refugees. The basement of the building has been converted into a warehouse where locals have been gathering hundreds of shoes, jackets and jumpers to provide refugees with protection for the ensuing winter.
Perhaps most extraordinarily, local armed and civilian opposition groups are to ensure that the war does not destroy the close relationships enjoyed by the town's Christian and Muslim residents.
The war in Syria has played on sectarian tensions, often causing minority groups, including Christians to flee rebel held areas. In Hasake, in northern Syria, a historic centre for Syria's Christians, almost one third of the Christian population has escaped after being exposed to kidnappings and persecution by Islamic extremists.

Yabroudis however have set up a 'crises committee' designed to prevent this social decay: "The propaganda of state media, and news of what is happening in other parts of the country scared many of the Christians here," said a wealthy Christian businessmen, going by the pseudonym George.
"In this council we worked to explain that the threat is in our minds, not in reality."
In the early days of the revolt tension had grown between the two religious groups, he said. The Church leaders had pressured the Christians in Yabroud not to join in protests against the government, which had angered the Sunni opposition in the town. During the holy Muslim month of Ramadan then, the crises cell arranged for Christian residents to invite Sunni protesters to take the last meal of Ramadan in the historic Christian cathedral of Constantine and Helena.
Mr Jumaa said: "We have lived here together for more than 1,000 years. Most of my friends are Christian. On Sunday they go to church, on Friday I got to mosque. This is the only difference."
Western governments have been hesitant to provide support to the armed opposition in Syria for the Islamist hue displayed by many of the fighting battalions. With local rebels fighting alongside the Nusra Front, a branch of al-Qaeda proscribed by the US as a terrorist organisation, there is, western diplomats say, too great a risk that the weapons will fall to "the wrong hands".
In Yabroud the four main fighting groups are with the western aligned rebel Free Syrian Army. Most of the fighters – who probably number around 3,000 in all – are moderately Islamic, or even liberal.
For a long time the people of Yabroud then had hoped that Western countries would provide support to their fighters. But after the United States called off it's military strikes against President Assad after the chemical attacks, resident said, they realised they were alone.
Dia'a said: "After two years of disappointments we don't rely on foreign countries anymore: not Geneva, not the US. We have to do this by ourselves. We have the idea that nobody wants to help us; not really".
Until recently Yabroud was left almost untouched by outside influences.
But now its ability to survive by itself, and stay true to it's revolutionary hopes, is being tested. It is coming under increasing pressure from both the Syrian regime, and jihadists intent on "hijacking" the revolt to build an Islamic state.
Every afternoon, as dusk starts to fall, shops are shuttered, residents go home, Doctors and volunteers make their way to the field hospital in expectation of what is to come.
The Government tanks are so close to Yabroud that the outgoing tank bursts are heard first, followed, seconds later by the screeching, sickening impact. In this small town of just four main streets, the ground shook with every explosion. The rounds come in steadily, slicing open homes and shops and spraying shrapnel up the walls.
The Telegraph was in the field clinic – a home that had been converted to a medical centre after government jets destroyed the town's municipal hospital, as the rounds came in last week. Doctors dispatched an ambulance to search for wounded, and made calls to check on friends and loved ones.
The government has not yet tried to re-enter the town, for it knows that rebel groups from surrounding villages would soon come to their rescue and cut off access to the nearby highway that provides the regime with crucial access to the north of the country.
Yabroud however is dangerous for the regime as it goes against the government's narrative that it is fighting only terrorists from al-Qaeda.
To that end then, the shelling is designed to destroy the fabric of the society: last week tanks shelled the Christian neighbourhood for the first time, puncturing the town's historic cathedral with artillery. "They are trying to scare us, to make us leave," said Suzanne, 24, a Christian student.
The same, sectarian motivated, pressure is also being put on Yabroud by the al-Qaeda linked groups the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant and Jabhat al-Nusra.
"Recently some men from ISIL passed through our Christian quarter," said Abu Nour, who heads the Yabroud police department. "He was furious to see a woman wearing jeans and no hijab; he shouted 'this is a Kaffir'. The ISIS men came to me and asked me permission for them to lecture in the mosques. I refused."
The jihadists sought to take over anyway, breaking into the church one night and desecrating some icons, and seeking to force a sermon in the mosque.
Dia'a said: "Al Qaeda is exactly the same as the regime. But with a beard."
The rebel FSA has been fighting to keep them out. One fighter said: "All the FSA united behind this idea and we have sent soldiers to guard the mosques and churches. They come with traditions that go against our beliefs. They wait until the FSA liberate a place and then they move in to destroy it."
For now the town's churches and the mosques stand in unison; the social structures built over the last two years proving resilient.
Residents of Yabroud believe that other parts of Syria, had they been offered the same space, free from attacks, prepare as they have, or western support, could one day follow their lead. The extremist Islamists that increasingly control Syria's north are the result of a vacuum of leadership and western aid, they said, and do not represent the hopes and dreams of most Syrians.
"In Yabroud, we are not a special case," said George. "We are like all other Syrians. The only difference is that we had the financial and political chance, and the time, to carry out the revolution. If the West helped, others would too".

The Telegraph.co.uk

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Vernietiging chemische wapens Syrië van start


Er is een begin gemaakt met de vernietiging van het arsenaal chemische wapens van het Syrische regime. Dat heeft een bron bij de Verenigde Naties zondag gezegd.

Het gaat om wapens en enkele machines die gebruikt werden voor de productie ervan.

Eerder deze week arriveerden wapeninspecteurs van de Organisatie voor het Verbod op Chemische Wapens (OPCW) in Syrië.

De inspecteurs hebben opdracht gekregen om voor medio 2014 het Syrische gifgasarsenaal te ontmantelen. Een van de eerste taken is het onklaar maken van de fabrieken, machines en laboratoria waar de chemische wapens worden vervaardigd. Dat karwei moet op 1 november voltooid zijn.

Vredesbesprekingen

Lakhdar Brahimi, gezant voor de Verenigde Naties (VN) in Syrië, zegt dat het niet zeker is dat er in november al vredesbesprekingen in Genève zullen plaatsvinden. Dat meldt Reuters.

Bron: nu.nl

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 13:06 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Ooit zal Syrië inderdaad een democratie kunnen worden. Maar de komende weet ik hoeveel jaar nog niet.

Allemaal leuk en aardig dat Syrië over 100 jaar een democratie kan worden maar daar hebben ze nu weinig aan .

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 21:21 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Maar waarom hebben ze in de afgelopen 50 jaar geen democratie ontwikkeld dan?

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 21:23 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Omdat het daar een grote bende is.

Ze hebben een tiran als leider (Assad) en het land zit vol met extremistische islamieten.

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 21:28 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Ah, dus de dictator (en zijn voorganger) hebben democratie tegen gehouden.

Dan is het dus onzin om te zeggen dat Assad moet blijven omdat Syrië niet klaar is voor democratie omdat Assad er zelf voor zorgt dat Syrië niet klaar is voor democratie.

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 21:29 schreef theunderdog het volgende:



2: Nee, Assad moet blijven omdat het alternatief nog erger is in mijn ogen.

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Op zondag 6 oktober 2013 21:31 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

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Het alternatief was de oppositie steunen voor er extremistische elementen het land binnen stroomden. Maar daar zijn we nu te laat voor. We hebben er zelf voor gezorgd dat er geen redelijk alternatief is voor Assad.