Oorlog in Libië #94: Met een immens dappere Eman al-Obeidi

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http://www.guardian.co.uk(...)-syria-bahrain-yemen

1.54pm: Martin Chulov, who was in Benghazi early on, has more on the Egyptian angle. He says Egypt is not supplying weapons to the rebels despite an earlier report in the Wall Street Journal. Here is Martin's take, with some fascinating background.

There has been much speculation about whether the Egyptians might send arms to Libya – whether to the regime or the rebels.

On the eve of the creation of the no-fly zone, a Libyan jet touched down in Cairo. It contained Gaddafi's chief of military supplies, Major General Abdul Rahman al-Zawi. He brought with him a blank cheque and a pledge that all past tensions would be quickly forgotten if Egypt's military rulers would sell weapons to the regime.

Gaddafi's man was politely sent packing. So too, according to Egyptian and western officials, were Libya's rebels who have made similar overtures. The rebels have beaten a regular path to Cairo, where they have met US and British diplomats and members of Egypt's high military command.

They have told all parties that the weapons they procured from Gaddafi's bases were not enough to sustain them for longer than several months. US officials recently suggested to an American newspaper that the rebels have established a weapons supply line through Egypt were denied this week by Egyptian officials and western diplomats.

"The Egyptians have been explicit about this," said one. "If they are doing it, they are doing it very quietly and we quite frankly don't think they are."

Egyptian officials contacted by the Guardian this week said the reasons to refuse both sides were rooted in the country's fragile new order. "We need to focus on our own borders and what is happening within them," said one senior official, linked to the military command. "The people would likely not respond well to us backing the violent overthrow of a neighbouring state, no matter the lack of regard people have for Gaddafi. Egypt is in a very delicate position and as transitional military rulers, we cannot be seen to be acting beyond our domestic obligations."

Western officials said Egypt was content to fall in behind consensual Arab support for the campaign in Libya, but play no active, or indirect role.

"If the rebels want weapons, they need to get them from elsewhere for now," said one diplomat.

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 17:59 schreef naatje_1 het volgende:
Als ik een tweep mag geloven zijn de rebellen nu heel veel terrein aan het verliezen...

http://twitter.com/#!/gpdMiddleEast

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:02 schreef Bartholomaeus het volgende:
Lange tijd dat ik hier heb gepost. Weinig tijd gehad.

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:03 schreef rakotto het volgende:

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GDP is juist een en al bullshit man.

Naja, wb!

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:10 schreef naatje_1 het volgende:
Luchtaanval op troepen Kaddafi bij Ajdabiyah: http://bit.ly/eYeqnY

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:09 schreef rakotto het volgende:
Deze heeft met yemen te maken En er is geen Yemen topic Zou kazafi ook zo handelen?

State controlled newspaper in #Yemen using photoshop to double # of supporters of #AliSaleh! http://on.fb.me/gmhriah #Insanity
29 Mar Favorite Retweet Reply

Anyway, GDP was wel goed in Egypte maar in Libie is ie echt hard achteruit gegaan vind ik. En veel nieuws dat onwaar was.

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:11 schreef Bartholomaeus het volgende:

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Je maakt me blij met deze post.

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:14 schreef naatje_1 het volgende:

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Brief Rosenthal & Hillen aan Kamer: "NL-se F-16's bestoken geen gronddoelen in Libië. In uiterste geval alleen vliegtuigen neerhalen" (ANP)

En met deze post ?

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:14 schreef Bartholomaeus het volgende:

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Heb ik niet echt een mening over. Moeilijke vraag.

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:15 schreef remlof het volgende:

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Nederlandse bijdrage bij aanvalsmissies is helemaal niet nodig, daar zijn al meer dan genoeg vliegtuigen voor voorhanden.

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:27 schreef svann het volgende:
BBC vermeldt:

ChangeInLibya (Halwasa Guy)
#NTC Military Council confirms that Gaddafi is using his Chad connections to get weapons, elite soldiers and mercenaries. #libya #feb17

^{Twitter 35 minutes ago via web}

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:09 schreef rakotto het volgende:
Deze heeft met yemen te maken En er is geen Yemen topic Zou kazafi ook zo handelen?

State controlled newspaper in #Yemen using photoshop to double # of supporters of #AliSaleh! http://on.fb.me/gmhriah #Insanity
29 Mar Favorite Retweet Reply

Anyway, GDP was wel goed in Egypte maar in Libie is ie echt hard achteruit gegaan vind ik. En veel nieuws dat onwaar was.

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:16 schreef naatje_1 het volgende:
zelfde bericht nu.nl: Nederlandse F-16's bestoken geen gronddoelen in Libië: http://bit.ly/hmwQxN

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:13 schreef Bartholomaeus het volgende:

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In Egypte goed?
Hij tweette dat er een paar soldaten op straat waren, een paar kinderen aan het voetballen waren op de oprit van het paleis van Mubarak en dat er maar een paar betogers stonden. AJE zond live beelden uit vanaf voor dat paleis. Stond helemaal vol.

Of het bericht dat Mubarak dood zou zijn dat hij tweette.

Wie vult mij aan?

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:35 schreef aerdt het volgende:

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Interessant. Chad krijgt namelijk wapens van Frankrijk om tegen de rebellen in eigen land te vechten...

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:48 schreef doeterniettoezegiktoch het volgende:

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dat meen je niet ?

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 18:44 schreef doeterniettoezegiktoch het volgende:

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wel Duizenden in Jemen eisen vertrek president

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Op woensdag 30 maart 2011 19:01 schreef rakotto het volgende:

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Jemen? Ik zocht op Yemen.

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Op dinsdag 29 maart 2011 00:09 schreef rakotto het volgende:
Trouwens die explosie lijkt meer op iets dat door Saleh zelf is gedaan om te laten zien dat men hem nodig heeft en het westen hem ook.

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Libya: Britain backs Clinton view that UN has sanctioned arming rebels

UK expels five Libyan diplomats, William Hague tells Commons,
as senior British official meets rebel leaders in Benghazi

Britain agrees with the United States that the UN has provided a legal basis to supply arms to rebel forces in Libya in limited circumstances, David Cameron and William Hague have told the House of Commons.

But the prime minister and the foreign secretary indicated Britain was in no rush to ship arms to the rebels as they cautioned that ministers would act with "extreme care" before making any decision.

The government set out its thinking on arming the rebels as Britain announced two important developments in Libya. Hague said five diplomats from the Libyan embassy in London, including the military attache, had been expelled on the grounds that they could pose a threat to Britain's security; and a British diplomatic mission, headed by the senior diplomat Christopher Prentice, visited the rebel stronghold of Benghazi on Monday and Tuesday, where they met the interim transitional national council and its military council.

Hague and Cameron indicated that Britain believed there could be a legal basis for providing arms to the opposition in Libya as they were questioned separately about the declaration by Hillary Clinton on Tuesday that UN security council resolution 1973 which authorised military action to protect civilians had relaxed the arms embargo.

Cameron said the embargo applied to the whole of Libya. But he added: "UNSCR 1973 allows 'all necessary measures' to protect civilians and civilian populated areas. Our view is that this would not necessarily rule out the provision of assistance to those protecting civilians in certain circumstances. We do not rule it out, but we have not taken the decision to do so."

But the prime minister said Britain would act with "extreme care" in deciding whether to arm the rebels. Cameron said that Sir Menzies Campbell was right to be "cautious and sceptical" after the former Liberal Democrat leader raised concerns about the reports.

Campbell said: "Can I ask [the prime minister] to display extreme caution in the matter of the supply of arms to the so-called rebels in Libya? The legal position is by no means clear, as his previous answer made eloquently obvious. In addition to that, the political consequences of doing so, particularly among those nearly 40 countries that were represented at the successful London conference yesterday, is very difficult to predict."

The prime minister replied: "[You] are absolutely right to be cautious and sceptical. This is a decision we should consider with huge care. While the legal position is clearer, I think there are some very strong arguments, like his [Campbell's], we'd have to listen to."

But Cameron praised the leaders of the anti-Gaddafi opposition. "What I would say to him, though, is [that] yesterday I met Mr Jabril of the interim transitional council. I was reassured to see that those people who are forming an alternative government in Benghazi do want it to be transitional. They are democrats; they are not tribal, and they want to see a future for the whole of Libya where the people have a choice over how they are governed."

The prime minister's declaration that the recent UN security council resolution could provide a legal basis for arming the rebels contradicts his initial thinking. On 18 March, the day after resolution 1973 was passed, he told MPs: "The resolution helps to enforce the arms embargo, and our legal understanding is that arms embargo applies to the whole of Libya."

Hague echoed the prime minister's new comments on the legality of arming the rebels, but went further in cautioning that Britain is unlikely at the moment to arm the rebels.

His comments came as politicians across the house, including the shadow foreign secretary, Douglas Alexander, cautioned against arming the rebels on the grounds that many were al-Qaida sympathisers.

The foreign secretary said: "Questions of advisability are different from the questions of legality. We will always be very conscious of that. If we changed our policy on this, we would certainly want to inform the House of Commons about it. But we are not currently engaged in any arming of the opposition or rebel forces."

Sir Malcolm Rifkind, the former foreign secretary, who has called for arming the rebels in recent weeks, welcomed the Anglo-US statements that supplying the insurgents could be lawful.

Hague gave a cautious reply. "I do underline that questions of advisability and policy would have to be examined, not just questions of legality," the foreign secretary said. "One could make the argument [that Sir Malcolm] made. But one can also make the argument that introducing new weapons into a conflict can have unforeseeable and unknown consequences, both in the immediate future and the longer term. Such considerations would have to be very carefully weighed before the government changed its policy on this matter."

Jack Straw, the former Labour foreign secretary, warned that arming the rebels could break up the international coalition supporting the action against Muammar Gaddafi's regime. Straw asked Hague: "Will he accept that if it is lawful, then, as he says, it is an issue of advisability? What is critical in all this is that, in making any decisions, the international coalition and especially the support of the Muslim and Arab world is paramount."

Hague said: "I think I can happily agree with all of that question. Maintaining that breadth of international coalition is very, very important. All along, we have said that the support of the Arab League, the participation of Arab nations and there, of course, yesterday we had the Organisation of the Islamic Conference strongly represented at our conference that is of huge importance. It will be continue to be of huge importance and we must not take actions that jeopardise that support."

Dennis Skinner, the veteran Labour MP, warned that arming the rebels could lead to a repeat of Afghanistan in the 1980s. "As an historian, he knows that in the 1980s another ally, America, decided to arm Osama bin Laden to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan. And now British troops are dying on the mountains of Afghanistan because of that error. Don't repeat it."

Hague said: "He [Skinner] mustn't get too excited about things we haven't done ... He is quite right that in history there is more than the one example of weapons being given to people in good faith and then those weapons being used for other purposes, that their original owners had not desired, at a later stage. That is one of the considerations that has to be borne in mind."

Edward Leigh, the Conservative chairman of the commons Public Accounts Committee, highlighted unease about the military action on the Tory benches. "I urge extreme caution on [the foreign secretary]. Would it not be a double win for al-Qaida, and would we not start losing support in the Arab world, if we were seen to impose a solution on Libya and at the same time to give arms to what could prove to be Islamist insurgents in the future?"