MO Midden-Oosten
Bespreek hier de actuele situatie omtrent het Midden-Oosten.
U.S. Military Intervention In Libya? Just Say No
As the conflict in Libya continues to rage, the calls for U.S. military intervention are picking up steam. Today, for example, Senator John McCain expanded on comments he made while in Egypt over the weekend and called for a no-fly zone over Libya:
In some of his harshest comments so far, Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) criticized the Obama administration Tuesday for its handling of tumultuous situations in Libya, Egypt and the Middle East.
McCain also shot down the argument that the U.S. could not afford to impose a no-fly zone over Libya.
Of course we have to have a no-fly zone, McCain said at an event hosted by the Atlantic Council in Washington on Tuesday. We are spending over $500 billion dollars, not counting Iraq and Afghanistan, on our nations defense. Dont tell me we cant do a no-fly zone over Tripoli.
I love the military, I love it, its been my life, but they always seem to find reasons why you cant do something rather than why you can, he added.
McCains comments come on the same morning that the Washington Post reports that some rebel forces in Libya are considering whether to ask for outside military intervention:
Rebel leaders in eastern Libya called Tuesday for international military intervention to help topple Moammar Gaddafi, as the realization dawned that people power alone may not be enough to dislodge their nations autocratic leader from his last remaining strongholds.
The rebels said they do not want ground forces, but they are increasingly coming around to the view that help in the form of a no-fly zone, as well as airstrikes and supplies of weaponry, will be necessary to ensure Gaddafis fall.
U.S. military officials said the rebels have not yet asked them for help, and on Tuesday they played down the likelihood of the United States setting up a no-fly zone.
But in the eastern city of Benghazi, the center of the resistance, some members of the committee formed to run the city said they expected to issue a formal request for military assistance to the international community Wednesday.
And in Misurata, a town about 120 miles east of Tripoli that is besieged by Gaddafis militias, a spokesman for the newly formed committees set up to run that town said residents also want foreign help against Gaddafi.
A no-fly zone would limit his movements, his ability to move mercenaries from south to north and to recruit mercenaries from sub-Saharan Africa, said a member of the media committee, Saadoun, who requested that he be identified only by a nom de guerre because Misurata remains hotly contested.
Providing military equipment and arms to our free army in the east will help the free army march to Tripoli, said Saadoun in a telephone interview. And we want surgical military strikes to target his militia and make this end swiftly and quickly and not to shed any more innocent Libyan blood.
The temptation to intervene is understandable from a humanitarian point of view, especially as we see yet more reports today of the Libyan Air Force being used to strike towns controlled by the rebels, The idea of using American assets, probably assisted by NATO, to prevent the Libyans from using air power to attack civilians seems an easy call, but it becomes a little more complicated once you recognize that doing so means that wed be taking sides in a civil war whose end is far from certain. Moreover, it ought to be recognized that a no-fly zone would be, without question, an act of war and would carry with it risks of any other military operation:
One Western diplomat, leaving a Security Council meeting on Wednesday, said that a no-fly zone over Libya would be extremely difficult to implement you need airports, hundreds of planes. It is an act of war, and you have to bear the consequences.
Such a move could risk the ire of Libyas Muslim and Arab neighbors and inflame already prickly relations with Security Council members Russia and China, experts say. Worse, such a provocative move could be perceived by Gadhafis regime as a declaration of war.
The worst-case scenario may not be horrible, but we have seen that the costs of perceived military unilateralism in the Arab world are high, said Michael OHanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who specializes in national security and defense issues.
While the U.S. response has been diplomatic so far, a no-fly zone could cause things to escalate in a hurry: After the first Gulf War, the United States, with U.N. support, established a no-fly zone over southern Iraq in 1992 after reports that Saddam Hussein had used violence against Iraqis, specifically Kurds and Shiites. In the following years, Husseins air forces openly challenged the zone, resulting in skirmishes and an air of brinkmanship that didnt end, fully, until 2003s Operation Iraqi Freedom.
And without the ground support that coalition forces had in the Gulf War, foreign policy experts are split on how effective a no-fly zone would be.
But one thing they all agree on: A no-fly zone could touch off a wider conflagration.
There would be happiness by some that the U.S. and Europe are standing by them, said Steve Clemons, director of the American Strategy Program of the New America Foundation. But a lot more will be skeptical. There is an institutional skepticism by anything from the West. Some will resent the perception of force robbing the Libyans of their own moment, he said.
As the conflict in Libya continues to rage, the calls for U.S. military intervention are picking up steam. Today, for example, Senator John McCain expanded on comments he made while in Egypt over the weekend and called for a no-fly zone over Libya:
In some of his harshest comments so far, Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) criticized the Obama administration Tuesday for its handling of tumultuous situations in Libya, Egypt and the Middle East.
McCain also shot down the argument that the U.S. could not afford to impose a no-fly zone over Libya.
Of course we have to have a no-fly zone, McCain said at an event hosted by the Atlantic Council in Washington on Tuesday. We are spending over $500 billion dollars, not counting Iraq and Afghanistan, on our nations defense. Dont tell me we cant do a no-fly zone over Tripoli.
I love the military, I love it, its been my life, but they always seem to find reasons why you cant do something rather than why you can, he added.
McCains comments come on the same morning that the Washington Post reports that some rebel forces in Libya are considering whether to ask for outside military intervention:
Rebel leaders in eastern Libya called Tuesday for international military intervention to help topple Moammar Gaddafi, as the realization dawned that people power alone may not be enough to dislodge their nations autocratic leader from his last remaining strongholds.
The rebels said they do not want ground forces, but they are increasingly coming around to the view that help in the form of a no-fly zone, as well as airstrikes and supplies of weaponry, will be necessary to ensure Gaddafis fall.
U.S. military officials said the rebels have not yet asked them for help, and on Tuesday they played down the likelihood of the United States setting up a no-fly zone.
But in the eastern city of Benghazi, the center of the resistance, some members of the committee formed to run the city said they expected to issue a formal request for military assistance to the international community Wednesday.
And in Misurata, a town about 120 miles east of Tripoli that is besieged by Gaddafis militias, a spokesman for the newly formed committees set up to run that town said residents also want foreign help against Gaddafi.
A no-fly zone would limit his movements, his ability to move mercenaries from south to north and to recruit mercenaries from sub-Saharan Africa, said a member of the media committee, Saadoun, who requested that he be identified only by a nom de guerre because Misurata remains hotly contested.
Providing military equipment and arms to our free army in the east will help the free army march to Tripoli, said Saadoun in a telephone interview. And we want surgical military strikes to target his militia and make this end swiftly and quickly and not to shed any more innocent Libyan blood.
The temptation to intervene is understandable from a humanitarian point of view, especially as we see yet more reports today of the Libyan Air Force being used to strike towns controlled by the rebels, The idea of using American assets, probably assisted by NATO, to prevent the Libyans from using air power to attack civilians seems an easy call, but it becomes a little more complicated once you recognize that doing so means that wed be taking sides in a civil war whose end is far from certain. Moreover, it ought to be recognized that a no-fly zone would be, without question, an act of war and would carry with it risks of any other military operation:
One Western diplomat, leaving a Security Council meeting on Wednesday, said that a no-fly zone over Libya would be extremely difficult to implement you need airports, hundreds of planes. It is an act of war, and you have to bear the consequences.
Such a move could risk the ire of Libyas Muslim and Arab neighbors and inflame already prickly relations with Security Council members Russia and China, experts say. Worse, such a provocative move could be perceived by Gadhafis regime as a declaration of war.
The worst-case scenario may not be horrible, but we have seen that the costs of perceived military unilateralism in the Arab world are high, said Michael OHanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution who specializes in national security and defense issues.
While the U.S. response has been diplomatic so far, a no-fly zone could cause things to escalate in a hurry: After the first Gulf War, the United States, with U.N. support, established a no-fly zone over southern Iraq in 1992 after reports that Saddam Hussein had used violence against Iraqis, specifically Kurds and Shiites. In the following years, Husseins air forces openly challenged the zone, resulting in skirmishes and an air of brinkmanship that didnt end, fully, until 2003s Operation Iraqi Freedom.
And without the ground support that coalition forces had in the Gulf War, foreign policy experts are split on how effective a no-fly zone would be.
But one thing they all agree on: A no-fly zone could touch off a wider conflagration.
There would be happiness by some that the U.S. and Europe are standing by them, said Steve Clemons, director of the American Strategy Program of the New America Foundation. But a lot more will be skeptical. There is an institutional skepticism by anything from the West. Some will resent the perception of force robbing the Libyans of their own moment, he said.
Moreover, the logistics of a no-fly zone over Libya would be difficult even with carrier-based aircraft. The Iraqi no-fly zones required about 200 U.S. and British planes to enforce, over an area far smaller than the land mass of Libya, and that was with bases located relatively close by in Kuwait (for the Southern no-fly) and Turkey (for the Northern no-fly). The logistics involved in a Libyan no-fly zone would be more complicated and, while not impossible, would likely involve more risk of loss in order to enforce. Additionally, as Ive noted several times, a no-fly zone does nothing to stop ground based attacks by Libyan forces against civilians and rebels, which means that the pressure to expand our mission from enforcing a no-fly zone to actively attacking Libyan ground forces.
National Review made the case against intervention of any kind, even a no-fly, quite well earlier this week:
One, Qaddafis regime doesnt appear to be doing much of its murder from the air. If we are serious about limiting his ability to massacre his countrymen, the no-fly zone would have to become a no machine-gun zone, too in other words an honest-to-goodness military intervention to affect events directly on the ground. Deploying our air power while Qaddafi continued to kill with impunity would make us look more ineffectual rather than less. For now (perhaps this will change if Qaddafi begins to consolidate his position on the strength of his air force), the no-fly zone seems a classic case of looking for lost keys under the streetlight; its the handiest way for us to intervene, not the most effective.
Two, the rebels are on the ascendancy. Absent some drastic change in the tide of events, it looks as if they will prevail. Why would we taint what would be the indigenous glory of their ouster of Qaddafi with an almost entirely symbolic Western military action? The reason that the revolts of 2011 have had a dramatic catalyzing effect across the region, when the invasion of Iraq didnt, is that they are the handiwork of Middle Eastern populations themselves, and thus a much more appealing model of change.
There would be no more effective way to bring an end to a Pan-Arab reform movement than to taint it as a tool of American imperialism. That argument is unlikely to work in Libya at this late date, but there are other nations watching and theyll respond to what we do in Libya accordingly The best thing we can do right now is stay on the sidelines, provide humanitarian food and medical aid to refugees, and let the Libyans take control of their own future.
bron
National Review made the case against intervention of any kind, even a no-fly, quite well earlier this week:
One, Qaddafis regime doesnt appear to be doing much of its murder from the air. If we are serious about limiting his ability to massacre his countrymen, the no-fly zone would have to become a no machine-gun zone, too in other words an honest-to-goodness military intervention to affect events directly on the ground. Deploying our air power while Qaddafi continued to kill with impunity would make us look more ineffectual rather than less. For now (perhaps this will change if Qaddafi begins to consolidate his position on the strength of his air force), the no-fly zone seems a classic case of looking for lost keys under the streetlight; its the handiest way for us to intervene, not the most effective.
Two, the rebels are on the ascendancy. Absent some drastic change in the tide of events, it looks as if they will prevail. Why would we taint what would be the indigenous glory of their ouster of Qaddafi with an almost entirely symbolic Western military action? The reason that the revolts of 2011 have had a dramatic catalyzing effect across the region, when the invasion of Iraq didnt, is that they are the handiwork of Middle Eastern populations themselves, and thus a much more appealing model of change.
There would be no more effective way to bring an end to a Pan-Arab reform movement than to taint it as a tool of American imperialism. That argument is unlikely to work in Libya at this late date, but there are other nations watching and theyll respond to what we do in Libya accordingly The best thing we can do right now is stay on the sidelines, provide humanitarian food and medical aid to refugees, and let the Libyans take control of their own future.
bron
Houdoequote:Op donderdag 3 maart 2011 01:07 schreef Dance99Vv het volgende:
Maare..... mijn bier is op .....ik ga naar bed
..........
OPEN UW OGEN!!1!quote:
Wilders is een haatzaaier. Hij wil alle moslims dood. De PVV moet verboden worden.
CourageOfOne Dave (CourageOfOne)
#Gaddafi will be held responsible for all the inhumane actions against #Libya people. #Gaddafi must step down. Freedom will prevail!
_ItsDianaa Dianaa
@justinbieber CAN YOU STOP TALKING ABOUT YOURSELF FIRST AND TWEET TO TELL EVERYONE TO PRAY FOR LIBYA?
LibyaNewsReport Libya
@Libyayalibya Breaking News:[UPFRONT]Protestors get shot at by Mercenaries in Libya! [Exclusive Footage] #Libya #Gaddafi
#Gaddafi will be held responsible for all the inhumane actions against #Libya people. #Gaddafi must step down. Freedom will prevail!
_ItsDianaa Dianaa
@justinbieber CAN YOU STOP TALKING ABOUT YOURSELF FIRST AND TWEET TO TELL EVERYONE TO PRAY FOR LIBYA?
LibyaNewsReport Libya
@Libyayalibya Breaking News:[UPFRONT]Protestors get shot at by Mercenaries in Libya! [Exclusive Footage] #Libya #Gaddafi
![[UPFRONT]Protestors get shot at by Mercenaries in Libya! [Exclusive Footage]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PlUeeAYprzo/default.jpg)
quote:Libya: Gaddafi's nurse has passport confiscated after drunken rant
Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's personal nurse had her passport confiscated on returning to her native Ukraine on Sunday after allegedly verbally abusing fellow passengers and crew in a drunken rant.
Witnesses told the Ukrainian daily newspaper Segodnya that 38-year-old Galyna Kolotnytska was drunk when she got on the plane that took her from Tripoli to Kiev and needed help to stand on her own two feet.
She flew into a drunken rage, they added, when she realised that the plane was a military cargo plane and not a passenger liner.
"She began to shout the odds ... demanding the pilots' names and threatening to fire them. She was very aggressive and said that she was Gaddafi's woman and that he would not permit her to be insulted," one witness claimed.
"At one point they were even ready to tie her up and put her on the floor because she was not responding to reason," the witness added.
On arriving at Kiev's Borispol airport, officials apparently confiscated her passport though it was not clear whether this was a punishment for her behaviour or because of her status as Gaddafi's personal nurse.
Leaked diplomatic cables have shown that US diplomats believe she may have been the Libyan dictator's lover as well as his nurse though Miss Kolotnytska's family has denied that and also denied she was drunk and disorderly on the flight home.
Since returning to the small town outside Kiev where she lives, she has avoided any contact with the press, arguing she is upset and tired.
bron
Geen mis ding, die doktert Galyna Kolotnytskaquote:
Als een belasting op tabak het roken zou moeten terugbrengen, en een belasting op benzine het verbruik op brandstof zou moeten terugbrengen.
Wat denk je dan dat een belasting op inkomen zou moeten doen?
Wat denk je dan dat een belasting op inkomen zou moeten doen?
Nederlandse mariniers gevangen in Libiëquote:rie Nederlandse militairen zijn na een mislukte evacuatie in handen gevallen van het Libische regime van Muammar Gadaffi. Het ministerie van Defensie bevestigde donderdag een bericht hierover van De Telegraaf.
Een helikopter vloog vanaf marine-fregat Hr. Ms. Tromp richting de Libische stad Sirte om daar twee evacués op te pikken. Na geland te zijn, werd de bemanning overvallen door een gewapende groep regeringsgezinde Libiërs. De evacuatie vond afgelopen zondag plaats, maar werd om veiligheidsredenen tot nu toe stilgehouden.
De twee evacués, volgens De Telegraaf een Nederlander en een niet nader genoemde Europeaan, zijn door de Libiërs overgedragen aan de Nederlandse ambassade en hebben inmiddels het land verlaten. Over de vrijlating van de drie mariniers vindt nog steeds intensief diplomatiek overleg plaats, aldus het Ministerie van Defensie.
Beatus vir qui suffert tentationem.
PSN Rinzewind en Cadsuana Melaidhrin
Stellar Blade *O* Sea of Stars *O* Trails Daybreak *O*
PSN Rinzewind en Cadsuana Melaidhrin
Stellar Blade *O* Sea of Stars *O* Trails Daybreak *O*
sinnetolsma Goede morgen. De dag dat de verkiezingen geweest zijn en bekend werd dat het kabinet een paar dagen zwijgde over 3 militairen in #Libya
Twitter -
2104
35 minuten geleden
Goeiemorgen
Twitter -
2104
35 minuten geleden
Goeiemorgen
2019: The Great Awakening
3 Nederlandse militairen gevangen genomen nadat ze 2 evacues hadden proberen te redden.
Zoon van Tolmai.
Bij WakkerNederland denken ze dat ze die Nederlanders vast houden omdat ze weten dat we bij de NAVO zitten en omdat ze weten dat de NAVO en de VS Libië willen binnenvallen. Zodat ze een soort van troef hebben en een beetje macht dus. Zodat ze kunnen voorkomen dat de VS of de NAVO er zich mee gaat bemoeien.
Zoon van Tolmai.
Goedemorgen allemaal.
Aangezien iedereen nog slaapt en er weinig nieuws uit Libie binnenkomt, wil ik van de gelegenheid gebruik maken om wat meer te vertellen hoe de -met name hoger opgeleide- bevolking in Oost-Afrika de gebeurtenissen bekijkt. (edit) zie nu de berichten over de nederlandse mariniers...
Met name omdat er nu met name wordt gesproken over het Westen, de Arabische Liga en de standpunten van Rusland en China.
Er wordt weinig gesproken over de rest van Afrika, tenzij de artikelen over mercenaries gaan.
Oost- Afrika (Kenia, Uganda, Tanzania, Burundi, Rwanda en binnenkort Zuid Sudan) kent een behoorlijke mate van media vrijheid, dus met name in de steden kan de bevolking zonder problemen de situatie in Libie volgen. En dat doen ze dan ook massaal. Stap een bar binnen en mensen zitten voor de tv naar AJE te kijken en te discussieren.
Veel van deze landen hebben veel geweld gezien de afgelopen decennia en heeft regimes die er langer zitten dan wat we gewend zijn in het westen, dus de burger kan zich identificeren met wat er zich nu afspeelt in het Midden-Oosten.
Velen zien dit niet zozeer als wat opstanden in een aantal landen in het Midden-Oosten, maar eerder als een Afrikaanse revolutie en vergelijkbaar met "de verlichting" dat ooit in Europa plaatsvond. Oppositie leiders in een aantal landen hebben openlijk in de pers verklaard dat wat er gebeurd in Noord-Afrika, ook kan plaatsvinden in het Oosten en Westen van dit continent.
Hoewel ik weinig indicaties zie dat dit inderdaad snel zal gebeuren, valt het wel op dat mensen hoop hebben dat er positieve veranderingen aankomen.
Maar waar de gewone burger met hoop naar de gebeurtenissen kijkt, bekijken veel Afrikaanse leiders het met argusogen. Dat is niet zo heel vreemd, aangezien veel van hen bang zijn dat zij de volgende kunnen zijn. Niet voor niets weigeren veel landen Bashir uit te leveren aan het tribunaal in Den Haag...
En dit frustreert met name de hoger opgeleiden. Zij willen juist dat de Afrikaanse Unie met een duidelijk standpunt komt en zich actief inzet om het huidige geweld in Libie een halt toe te roepen.
Interventie door het westen wordt door weinigen hier als een positief iets gezien. Ze vinden het een Afrikaans probleem en zijn bang dat zo'n interventie alle veranderingen teniet zal doen. In plaats van een "Afrikaanse revolutie" wordt het plotseling een internationaal conflict dat zelfs kan eindigen in een "West vs Arabische landen" situatie.
Zoals gezegd, veel van deze landen hebben hun eigen bloedbaden gehad en de bevolking is dus minder onder de indruk van het aantal doden dat valt dan in het Westen. Ze zien het eerder als een prijs dat betaald moet worden voor veranderingen.
Aangezien iedereen nog slaapt en er weinig nieuws uit Libie binnenkomt, wil ik van de gelegenheid gebruik maken om wat meer te vertellen hoe de -met name hoger opgeleide- bevolking in Oost-Afrika de gebeurtenissen bekijkt. (edit) zie nu de berichten over de nederlandse mariniers...
Met name omdat er nu met name wordt gesproken over het Westen, de Arabische Liga en de standpunten van Rusland en China.
Er wordt weinig gesproken over de rest van Afrika, tenzij de artikelen over mercenaries gaan.
Oost- Afrika (Kenia, Uganda, Tanzania, Burundi, Rwanda en binnenkort Zuid Sudan) kent een behoorlijke mate van media vrijheid, dus met name in de steden kan de bevolking zonder problemen de situatie in Libie volgen. En dat doen ze dan ook massaal. Stap een bar binnen en mensen zitten voor de tv naar AJE te kijken en te discussieren.
Veel van deze landen hebben veel geweld gezien de afgelopen decennia en heeft regimes die er langer zitten dan wat we gewend zijn in het westen, dus de burger kan zich identificeren met wat er zich nu afspeelt in het Midden-Oosten.
Velen zien dit niet zozeer als wat opstanden in een aantal landen in het Midden-Oosten, maar eerder als een Afrikaanse revolutie en vergelijkbaar met "de verlichting" dat ooit in Europa plaatsvond. Oppositie leiders in een aantal landen hebben openlijk in de pers verklaard dat wat er gebeurd in Noord-Afrika, ook kan plaatsvinden in het Oosten en Westen van dit continent.
Hoewel ik weinig indicaties zie dat dit inderdaad snel zal gebeuren, valt het wel op dat mensen hoop hebben dat er positieve veranderingen aankomen.
Maar waar de gewone burger met hoop naar de gebeurtenissen kijkt, bekijken veel Afrikaanse leiders het met argusogen. Dat is niet zo heel vreemd, aangezien veel van hen bang zijn dat zij de volgende kunnen zijn. Niet voor niets weigeren veel landen Bashir uit te leveren aan het tribunaal in Den Haag...
En dit frustreert met name de hoger opgeleiden. Zij willen juist dat de Afrikaanse Unie met een duidelijk standpunt komt en zich actief inzet om het huidige geweld in Libie een halt toe te roepen.
Interventie door het westen wordt door weinigen hier als een positief iets gezien. Ze vinden het een Afrikaans probleem en zijn bang dat zo'n interventie alle veranderingen teniet zal doen. In plaats van een "Afrikaanse revolutie" wordt het plotseling een internationaal conflict dat zelfs kan eindigen in een "West vs Arabische landen" situatie.
Zoals gezegd, veel van deze landen hebben hun eigen bloedbaden gehad en de bevolking is dus minder onder de indruk van het aantal doden dat valt dan in het Westen. Ze zien het eerder als een prijs dat betaald moet worden voor veranderingen.
Nederlandse militairen waren 'ongewenste vreemdelingen' in Libië (NOS)
Defensiewoordvoerder over aanhouding Nederlandse militairen in Libië
Radiointerview
Defensiewoordvoerder over aanhouding Nederlandse militairen in Libië
Radiointerview
2019: The Great Awakening
Hadden wij geen toestemming van Ghadaffi om onze mensen te evacueren?
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door DustPuppy op 03-03-2011 08:05:17 ]
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door DustPuppy op 03-03-2011 08:05:17 ]
"The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer’s farce is almost done.”
Chavez gaat "mediaten?"
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
Dit betekent dat nederland voorlopig op eieren loopt totdat onze jongens terug zijn.quote:
Wat betekent dit? Komt hier trammelant van?
Gadaffi weet dat als hij ze ombrengt de navo hoogstwaarschijnlijk 'wraak' zal nemen met bombardementen, hij zal dus zolang mogelijk willen rekkken.
Tsjonge.quote:
3 Nederlandse militairen gevangen genomen nadat ze 2 evacues hadden proberen te redden.
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
quote:Met Video.
Libyan rebels fend off air assault
Brega, a port under the control of Libyan opposition fighters, comes under attack from government forces.
Some of the fiercest fighting since the uprising in Libya began last month has taken place in Brega, one of many towns controlled by the opposition in the east of the country.
About 300 men loyal to Muammar Gaddafi attacked Brega early on Wednesday morning.
Residents said 10 civilians were killed in the fighting.
Later, an air force bomber circled the town, and Al Jazeera's Tony Birtley was about 70 metres from where a missile hit without causing any casualties.
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
Ik denk dat we nu weten waarom er nog geen NL boycot is en waarom er geen tegoeden bevroren zijn.quote:
Bij WakkerNederland denken ze dat ze die Nederlanders vast houden omdat ze weten dat we bij de NAVO zitten en omdat ze weten dat de NAVO en de VS Libië willen binnenvallen. Zodat ze een soort van troef hebben en een beetje macht dus. Zodat ze kunnen voorkomen dat de VS of de NAVO er zich mee gaat bemoeien.
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
Wat een enorme flutvragen, maar mooie aanvulling v.d woordvoerder.quote:
Nederlandse militairen waren 'ongewenste vreemdelingen' in Libië (NOS)
Defensiewoordvoerder over aanhouding Nederlandse militairen in Libië
Radiointerview
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
8:53am
Al Jazeera has learned that Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has offered to mediate a solution to the crisis in Libya, and in the last few hours, Colonel Gaddafi accepted the offer.
Gaddafi spoke to Chavez and agreed in principle to a mediation plan. We've also learned that the Arab League has welcomed the offer.
Al Jazeera has learned that Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has offered to mediate a solution to the crisis in Libya, and in the last few hours, Colonel Gaddafi accepted the offer.
Gaddafi spoke to Chavez and agreed in principle to a mediation plan. We've also learned that the Arab League has welcomed the offer.
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
Evan Hill (@evanchill), Al Jazeera's online producer, was on a road near the port town of Brega earlier today when a fighter jet fired a missile that impacted metres away. The town saw intense fighting throughout Wednesday between pro- and anti-government forces. The jet was piloted by forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi. The video below was taken moments after the missile impact.
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
Ze gaan de oppositie dood praten.quote:
8:53am
Al Jazeera has learned that Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has offered to mediate a solution to the crisis in Libya, and in the last few hours, Colonel Gaddafi accepted the offer.
Gaddafi spoke to Chavez and agreed in principle to a mediation plan. We've also learned that the Arab League has welcomed the offer.
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
Wat zegt de buitenlandse media erover? Dit kan zomaar eens een aanleiding worden voor 'verdere actie'
quote:Gaddafi rebels look to Tripoli, peace plan mooted
BREGA, Libya | Thu Mar 3, 2011 1:55am EST
BREGA, Libya (Reuters) - Muammar Gaddafi's Libyan army faced an increasingly organized and confident rebel force on Thursday which is appealing for international support and looking to take its military successes west toward Tripoli.
As the struggle between Gaddafi loyalists and rebels who have taken swathes of Libya intensified, one report said Gaddafi and the president of the Arab League had agreed to a peace plan from Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez.
News network Al Jazeera said the plan would involve a commission from Latin America, Europe and the Middle East trying to reach a negotiated outcome between the Libyan leader and rebel forces for this North African oil-producing country.
A senior official told Reuters in Caracas he did not know what Gaddafi had said about Chavez's idea. Libyan and Arab League officials were not immediately available for comment.
On the military front, Libyan rebels repulsed a land and air offensive by Gaddafi's forces on the eastern oil terminal of Brega as the defiant leader warned foreign powers of "another Vietnam" if they intervened in the popular uprising against his 41-year rule.
Rebels in their eastern bastion of Benghazi called for U.N.-backed air strikes to halt attacks by African mercenaries they said Gaddafi was using against his own people.
Analysts cautioned against drawing firm conclusions from fast moving events in a situation of erratic communications.
"We should keep in mind that both the government and the rebels are trying to spin an image of momentum," said Shashank Joshi, an analyst at Britain's Royal United Services Institute.
The uprising, the bloodiest yet against long-serving rulers in the Middle East and North Africa, is causing a humanitarian crisis, especially on the Tunisian border where tens of thousands of foreign workers are trying to flee to safety.
Oil prices held near 2- year highs on Thursday due to fears the unrest could spread to other OPEC producers.
Government troops, backed by air power, launched an attack on Wednesday and briefly captured Brega, an oil export terminal 800 km (500 miles) east of Tripoli.
Opposition forces took back the town they have held for about a week, rebel officers said. They were ready to move west toward the capital, they said, if Gaddafi refused to quit.
Basking in the adulation of loyalists in Tripoli, Gaddafi launched into a tirade against the "armed gangsters" he said were behind the unrest, part of a conspiracy to colonize Libya and seize its oil.
"We will enter a bloody war and thousands and thousands of Libyans will die if the United States enters or NATO enters," Gaddafi told Tripoli supporters at a gathering televised live.
"We are ready to hand out weapons to a million, or 2 million or 3 million, and another Vietnam will begin."
A Tripoli resident and Gaddafi opponent, who did not want to be identified, told Reuters: "Gaddafi will hang on for a while. It's not going to be easy for an unarmed crowd to face highly armed forces eager to shoot their own people."
The assault on Brega appeared to be the most significant military operation by Gaddafi since the uprising erupted in mid-February and set off a confrontation that Washington says could descend into a long civil war unless Gaddafi steps down.
Witnesses said the attack was backed by heavy weapons and air strikes. One said Gaddafi's forces were 2-3 km from the city center and had 300-350 rebels pinned down at an oil industry airport on the city outskirts.
DUTCH SOLDIERS HELD
The Dutch Defense Ministry said on Thursday Libyan authorities had arrested three Dutch soldiers on Sunday when they tried to evacuate a Dutch citizen from the city of Sirte, east of Tripoli.
"A helicopter from a ship off Libya's coast was used. It was a consular evacuation. During the operation the helicopter was grounded by an armed unit," Defense Ministry spokesman Otte Beeksma said, adding the Netherlands was in talks with Libyan authorities about the release of the soldiers.
In Benghazi, the rebel National Libyan Council called for air strikes. Spokesman Hafiz Ghoga said: "We call for specific attacks on strongholds of these mercenaries. The presence of any foreign forces on Libyan soil is strongly opposed. There is a big difference between this and strategic air strikes."
In a possible response to Western hints that the opposition needs to unify to facilitate rebel links with outside powers, Ghoga said a former justice minister, Mustafa Abdel Jalil, would be chairman of the council which will have 30 members and be based in Benghazi before moving later to Tripoli.
Libya's deputy ambassador to the United Nations, one of the first Libyan diplomats to denounce Gaddafi and defect, said the United Nations may back a resolution for a no-fly zone if the National Libyan Council requested it officially.
The U.S. government is cautious about imposing a no-fly zone over Libya, stressing the diplomatic and military risks involved, but has moved warships into the Mediterranean.
Any sort of foreign military involvement in Arab countries is a sensitive topic for Western nations uncomfortably aware that Iraq suffered years of bloodletting and al Qaeda violence after a 2003 U.S.-led invasion toppled Saddam Hussein.
The Arab League said it was against direct outside military intervention, but could enforce a no-fly zone in cooperation with the African Union. Realistically though, only the United States could carry out such an operation.
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said U.S. military assets could be used to support the movement of supplies to areas in need but a no-fly zone was not an immediate priority.
Spain became the latest European country to offer help to refugees, saying it would send a plane loaded with humanitarian aid to the Tunisian-Libyan border on Thursday. The plane will be used to ferry Egyptian migrants from Djerba to Cairo.
(Additional reporting by Yvonne Bell and Chris Helgren in Tripoli, Tom Pfeiffer, Alexander Dziadosz in Benghazi, Yannis Behrakis and Douglas Hamilton; Christian Lowe and Hamid Ould Ahmed in Algiers, Souhail Karam and Marie-Louise Gumuchian in Rabat; Sarah Mikhail in Cairo: Writing by Peter Millership and Janet Lawrence)
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
Die hebben allemaal het nieuws uit de Telegraafquote:
Wat zegt de buitenlandse media erover? Dit kan zomaar eens een aanleiding worden voor 'verdere actie'
2019: The Great Awakening
Zou jij gerust zijn als je als gijzelaar afhankelijk was van Rosenthal? Ik niet.quote:
Ik hoop dat Rosenthal dit keer wat beter z'n best doet.
Maar hopen dat zijn diplomaten meer ervaring hebben.
Coincidence
Makes sense
Only with you
Makes sense
Only with you
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
Die man is indd een grote grap, jammer dat hij op zo'n belangrijke positie zit.quote:
[..]
Zou jij gerust zijn als je als gijzelaar afhankelijk was van Rosenthal? Ik niet.
Maar hopen dat zijn diplomaten meer ervaring hebben.
Maargoed, het is wel heel vervelend allemaal.
Gadaffi kan de militairen (gijzelaars) gaan gebruiken als pressiemiddel zodat de NAVO zich er niet mee gaat bemoeien en er minder druk komt vanuit andere landen.
[ Bericht 16% gewijzigd door t-8one op 03-03-2011 10:17:58 ]
Chavez gaat kijken of er tussen G en de oppositie te onderhandelen valt.quote:
Goeiemorgen allennog nieuws onder de horizon?
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
http://www.facebook.com/a(...)0537530969414&page=2
Misschien staan hier nog mooie foto's tussen voor de liefhebbers.
Misschien staan hier nog mooie foto's tussen voor de liefhebbers.
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
Dus die 3 nl soldaten zijn dus al gevangen afgelopen zondag en daar wordt nu pas melding van gemaakt?
There is only one religion
Mijn oom, die bij BuZa werkt, kraakte Rosenthal gister nog even goed af - een onbenul volgens hem. Aan de andere kant wel prima dat het Nederlandse leger mensen evacueert, maar hoe kan het nou dat de Britten in het geheim honderdvijftig man daar weghalen, en dat wij gepakt worden als we drie mensen willen evacueren?quote:
[..]
Zou jij gerust zijn als je als gijzelaar afhankelijk was van Rosenthal? Ik niet.
Maar hopen dat zijn diplomaten meer ervaring hebben.
A man said to the universe: 'Sir, I exist.'
'However', replied the universe. 'This fact has not created in me a sense of obligation.'
'However', replied the universe. 'This fact has not created in me a sense of obligation.'
die engelse heli had verdomd veel geluk er werd op geschoten en raak ookquote:
[..]
Mijn oom, die bij BuZa werkt, kraakte Rosenthal gister nog even goed af - een onbenul volgens hem. Aan de andere kant wel prima dat het Nederlandse leger mensen evacueert, maar hoe kan het nou dat de Britten in het geheim honderdvijftig man daar weghalen, en dat wij gepakt worden als we drie mensen willen evacueren?
There is only one religion
De grote leider vooropquote:
[..]
Chavez gaat kijken of er tussen G en de oppositie te onderhandelen valt.
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23474quote:How was Libya doing under the rule of Gadaffi? How bad did the people have it? Were they oppressed as we now commonly accept as fact? Let us look at the facts for a moment.
Before the chaos erupted, Libya had a lower incarceration rate than the Czech republic. It ranked 61st. Libya had the lowest infant mortality rate of all of Africa. Libya had the highest life expectancy of all of Africa. Less than 5% of the population was undernourished. In response to the rising food prices around the world, the government of Libya abolished ALL taxes on food.
People in Libya were rich. Libya had the highest gross domestic product (GDP) at purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita of all of Africa. The government took care to ensure that everyone in the country shared in the wealth. Libya had the highest Human Development Index of any country on the continent. The wealth was distributed equally. In Libya, a lower percentage of people lived below the poverty line than in the Netherlands.
“Man is free at the moment he wishes to be.”
Voltaire.
"There is no left and right, only right and wrong." Tinyint, DI forums.
"Doubt is the seed of misdirection." Ikzelf.
Voltaire.
"There is no left and right, only right and wrong." Tinyint, DI forums.
"Doubt is the seed of misdirection." Ikzelf.
Leuk maar is dat uberhoupt een vruchtbaar idee, denk dat velen libiers niet zitten te wachten op een andere gek.quote:
[..]
Chavez gaat kijken of er tussen G en de oppositie te onderhandelen valt.
There is only one religion
(CNN) -- Three Dutch Navy personnel were captured by armed men loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi during an evacuation operation on Sunday, the Netherlands Ministry of Defence said Thursday.
"Intensive diplomatic negotiations" are going on between Dutch and Libyan authorities and relatives of the crew are being kept informed, said Otte Beeksma, a spokesman for the Dutch Ministry of Defense.
The crew members were trying to evacuate a Dutch citizen from the Sirte area when they were taken prisoner, he said.
They deployed in a Lynx helicopter from the HMS Tromp, anchored off the Libyan coast, he said.
Gadhafi warns against intervention Libyan army reclaims crossing
The ship's communications officer and Dutch consular authorities immediately tried to negotiate their release, he said.
The Dutch citizen they were trying to rescue and another European Union national have been transferred to the Dutch Embassy in Tripoli, Beeksma said, without explaining whether the Dutch Navy had ever made contact with them.
News of their capture has not been made public until now to prevent further endangering the Navy personnel involved, the spokesman said.
It is not clear if the captors are Libyan military personnel, militias or tribesmen. Libya has not commented publicly on the incident.
"Intensive diplomatic negotiations" are going on between Dutch and Libyan authorities and relatives of the crew are being kept informed, said Otte Beeksma, a spokesman for the Dutch Ministry of Defense.
The crew members were trying to evacuate a Dutch citizen from the Sirte area when they were taken prisoner, he said.
They deployed in a Lynx helicopter from the HMS Tromp, anchored off the Libyan coast, he said.
Gadhafi warns against intervention Libyan army reclaims crossing
The ship's communications officer and Dutch consular authorities immediately tried to negotiate their release, he said.
The Dutch citizen they were trying to rescue and another European Union national have been transferred to the Dutch Embassy in Tripoli, Beeksma said, without explaining whether the Dutch Navy had ever made contact with them.
News of their capture has not been made public until now to prevent further endangering the Navy personnel involved, the spokesman said.
It is not clear if the captors are Libyan military personnel, militias or tribesmen. Libya has not commented publicly on the incident.
