Het Iraanse regime, tov andere "bedenkelijke" regimes

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 01:35 schreef Kees22 het volgende:

[..]

Even serieus: Geef morgen als we allebei ontnuchterd zijn maar antwoord:
Maar wat is het nut van deze onterechte en onzinnige aantijgingen?

Denk je dat lezers van deze topics jou geloven? Of denk je mij zo boos te maken dat ik over de schreef ga?

Wacht maar tot morgen, ga eerst maar slapen.

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Op dinsdag 4 mei 2010 01:06 schreef Tarak het volgende:

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Naief!!! Hele groepen willen zich afscheiden!!!

En de Armenen en Turkmenen willen ook aansluiting bij respectievelijk Armenië en Turkmenistan.

Iran wordt door de dictatuur bij elkaar gehouden. Als de dictatuur verdwijnt zal het land ook verder gesplitst worden.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 01:33 schreef DeParo het volgende:

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Maar ze verloren door die slag de oorlog . En nu zal de herhaling van de slag bij Thermopylae niet alleen door de grootste en sterkste gewonnen worden maar de oorlog ook.

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Ik vond het anders best een toffe film.

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Nog altijd beter dan filosofen, films zijn altijd nog gebaseerd op een kern van waarheid, filosofen lullen maar.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 01:41 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:

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Men verliest oorlogen en wint ze. Nee, een herhaling van Thermopylae zal niet meer plaatsvinden.
[..]

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Dat zegt genoeg. Je moest eens weten wat de 'echte' historici van de film vinden.
[..]

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Het zal je wellicht verbazen, maar ik ben net zo thuis in de geschiedenis als in de filosofie.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 01:44 schreef DeParo het volgende:

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Een terugkeer naar Iran zal voor jou ook niet meer plaatsvinden.

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Nou en, ik vond National Treasure 1 en 2 ook toffe films, vindt het al leuk dat er tenminste aandacht voor is.
Valkyrie bijvoorbeeld, behalve dat het in Engels gesproken wordt, is wel een historisch verantwoorde film.
Die vind ik dan minstens net zo tof.

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Dat denken alle filosofen.
Maar dat laten ze nooit blijken .

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 01:47 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:

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Ik ga waarschijnlijk volgend jaar zomer weer naar Iran. Je mag mee als je wilt?
[..]

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Een echte historisch correcte film is Der Untergang. Maar goed, jouw voorkeur wat betreft historische films zegt w.m.b. genoeg.
[..]

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k ben geen filosoof, maar een spectateur engagé. Een ware uomo universale.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 01:52 schreef DeParo het volgende:
Ik zou het niet afslaan hoor.

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Dat is wel een redelijk historisch verantwoorde film, alleen, als je die op 4 mei gaat uitzenden dan heb je er niet veel van begrepen.

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Nee, want die is blank, en jij bent een Iranier.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 01:55 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:

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Je gaat mee dus? Prima.
[..]

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Ik zie het probleem niet.
[..]

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Welgeteld twee fouten:

Iraniers zijn blank.
Avicenna was een Iranier en een uomo universale.

SPOILER

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quote:

Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 01:57 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:
Je blijft me toch telkens verbazen DeParo. Geschiedenis studeren en zoveel historische fouten maken.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 02:05 schreef DeParo het volgende:
Iraniers zijn getint m'n beste

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En toch zie ik hier een blanke man.

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Avicenna was a Muslim polymath of Persian origin and the foremost physician and philosopher of his time.

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Ach AR, je moest eens weten hoe racistisch ze waren in de tijd van de Rennaissance, en oei
toen leefde jouw Avicenna nog niet eens maja

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 02:12 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:

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Nu weet ik dat historici meestal niet thuis zijn in de antropologie, maar blank zijn heeft niets te maken met huidskleur, maar met de schedelstructuur. De Iraniers vallen onder het 'blanke ras'.
[..]

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Ik zie een man, niet voornamelijk blank. Overigens; waar haal je in godsnaam vandaan dat een uomo universale blank moet zijn? Het heeft niets met huidskleur te maken. Overigens was Avicenna wel degelijk een uomo universale, net zoals meer Perzische en Arabische wetenschappers dat waren:
[..]

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Nee, Avicenna was een paar eeuwen voor de renaissance geboren. Moet ik je nu telkens blijven verbeteren?

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en oei
toen leefde jouw Avicenna nog niet eens maja

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 02:17 schreef DeParo het volgende:
Dat vonden de mensen in de Rennaissance anders niet AR.

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Voor degene die de term bedacht hebben maakte het wel degelijk uit waar je vandaan kwam.

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Leonardo Da Vinci heeft een blanke man met blonde lokken getekend, niet echt een Iranier, dunkt me.
Dat is volgens hem het prototype voor zo iemand.

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Maar goed, verheerlijk jij je niet-blanke landgenoten maar, ze schamen zich nog steeds voor je hoor.

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The terms Renaissance Man and, less commonly, homo universalis (Latin for "universal man" or "man of the world") are related and used to describe a person who is well educated or who excels in a wide variety of subjects or fields.

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List

The following people represent prime examples of "Renaissance Men" and "universal geniuses", that is "polymaths" in the strictest interpretation of the secondary meaning of the word. The list is organized by date of birth.

* Imhotep, 2650–2600 BC, was an Egyptian polymath,[2] who served under the Third Dynasty king, Djoser, as Vizir (or Chancellor ) to the pharaoh and high priest of the sun god Ra at Heliopolis. He is considered to be the first engineer, architect and physician in history known by name. The full list of his titles is:

Chancellor of the King of Egypt, Doctor, First in line after the King of Upper Egypt, Administrator of the Great Palace, Hereditary nobleman, High Priest of Heliopolis, Builder, Chief Carpenter, Chief Sculptor and Maker of Vases in Chief.

Imhotep was one of very few mortals to be depicted as part of a pharaoh's statue. He was one of only a few commoners ever to be accorded divine status after death.

* Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106 BC–43 BC, Roman statesman, lawyer, humanist, republican, letterist, constitutionalist, politician, philosopher, translator, political theorist, orator, linguist and prose stylist.[3]

* Abbas Ibn Firnas (Armen Firman) (810–887), an Andalusian Berber aviator, inventor, engineer, technologist, chemist, humanitarian, musician, physician and poet; "Ibn Firnas was a polymath: a physician, the first to make glass from stones (quartz?), a student of music, and inventor of some sort of metronome";[4] "had he lived in the Florence of the Medici, [Abbas ibn Firnas] would have been a “Renaissance man”."[5]

* Trotula of Salerno 11th to 12th century Salerno, south Italy. Chair of Medicine, Salerno Medical School responsible for alleviating women’s suffering in illness and the specific medical needs of women. Physician, obstetrician, gynaecologist, medical teacher, writer, health planner and experimenter, responsible for major advances in female medicine, public health, pharmacology and medical teaching methods, as well as generally in science. Trotula became famous for establishing the distinct field of women’s health, and teaching men about women’s health. She wrote books used for many centuries about this area, most significant was Passionibus Curandorum, sometimes called The Book of the Diseases of Women or Trotula Major and also De Ornatu Mulierum known as Trotula Minor. These works discuss menses, conception, pregnancy, childbirth, and general issues of illness and treatments. In Trotula’s view men also suffered fertility problems. She promoted and experimented with opiates to numb pain during childbirth.[6]

* Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen) (965–1039), an Iraqi scientist, physicist, anatomist, physician, psychologist, astronomer, engineer inventor, mathematician, ophthalmologist, philosopher, and Ash'ari theologian; "a devout, brilliant polymath";[7] "a great man and a universal genius, long neglected even by his own people";[8] "Ibn al-Haytham provides us with the historical personage of a versatile universal genius."[9]

* Abū Bakr Muhammad ibn Zakarīya al-Rāzi (Rhazes) (865–925), Persian[10][11] alchemist, chemist, physician, philosopher and scholar. He is often referred as "probably the greatest and most original of all the Muslim physicians, and one of the most prolific as an author".[12] He made fundamental and enduring contributions to the fields of medicine, alchemy, music, and philosophy, recorded in over 184 books and articles in various fields of science. He was well-versed in Persian, Greek and Indian medical knowledge and made numerous advances in medicine through own observations and discoveries.[13]

* Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī (973–1048), a Persian scientist, physicist, anthropologist, astronomer, astrologer, encyclopedist, geodesist, geographer, geologist, historian, mathematician, natural historian, pharmacist, physician, philosopher, scholar, teacher, Ash'ari theologian, and traveller; "al-Biruni was a polymath and traveler (to India) who introduced Indian scientific knowledge & thought to the Middle East & the West, making contributions in mathematics, geography and geology, natural history, calendars and astronomy";[14] "al-Biruni, a scholar in many disciplines — from linguistics to mineralogy — and perhaps medieval Uzbekistan's most universal genius."[15]

* Abū Alī ibn Sīnā (Avicenna) (980–1037), a Persian physician, pharmacologist, philosopher, metaphysician, aromatherapist, astronomer, chemist, Hanafi jurist and theologian, physicist, scientist, and universalist; "The Persian polymath-physician Avicenna";[16] "Avicenna (973–1037) was a sort of universal genius, known first as a physician. To his works on medicine he afterward added religious tracts, poems, works on philosophy, on logic, as physics, on mathematics, and on astronomy. He was also a statesman and a soldier."[17]

* Ibn Rushd (Averroes) (1126–1198), an Andalusian Arab philosopher, doctor, physician, jurist, lawyer, astronomer, mathematician, and theologian; "Ibn-Rushd, a polymath also known as Averroes";[18] "Doctor, Philosopher, Renaissance Man."[19]

* Ibn Khaldun (1332–1406), an Arab social scientist, sociologist, historian, historiographer, philosopher of history, demographer, economist, linguist, philosopher, political theorist, military theorist, Islamic scholar, Ash'ari theologian, diplomat and statesman; "a still-influential polymath";[20] "in any epoch ibn Khaldun (1332–1406) would deserve the accolade Renaissance man, a person of many talents and diverse interests."[21]

* Leone Battista Alberti (1404–1472), painter, poet, medallist, philosopher, hydraulic engineer, cryptographer, including machine assisted encryption, musician, and architect, and writer-novellist.[22][23]

* Leonardo da Vinci (1452–1519)[24][25] "In Leonardo Da Vinci, of course, he had as his subject not just an ordinary Italian painter, but the prototype of the universal genius, the 'Renaissance man,' …"; "prodigious polymath… Painter, sculptor, engineer, astronomer, anatomist, biologist, geologist, physicist, architect, philosopher, humanist."[26]. Leonardo's scientific accomplishments are often reduced to inventions (of which he made very many) or to speculation, and an adventurous spirit. Recent writing shows that he was in fact a serious and brilliant scientist, concerned with what today is called 'systems theory', or complex systems; but he devised scientific reasoning models for experimentation, and conducted experiments with validation procedures, all of which qualify him as a scientist in the true sense as well.[27] For the extraordinary and unprecedented range of his work, of which only a minority survives, he is justly considered by many the most diversely talented person, or, as Helen Gardner says "The scope and depth of his interests were without precedent… His mind and personality seem to us superhuman".[28]

* Michelangelo Buonarroti (1475–1564), architect, sculptor, painter, poet, writer.[22][23]

* Baha' ad-Din al-`Amili; a polymath[29] equally at ease in philosophy, mathematics, astronomy, architecture and poetry.

* Galileo Galilei (1564–1642), "Italian scientist, mathematician, astronomer, physicist, and philosopher. He made fundamental contributions to many sciences such as motion, materials, astronomy; he adapted telescope devices to astronomical purposes. As a natural philosopher committed to accounts of the world in mathematical terms moved away from descriptive accounts of the material world to mathematical ones tested empirically by experiments devised according to scientific method and reasoning. He formulated laws on circular inertia, on falling bodies, and parabolic trajectories. Several of these launched the change in how motion was understood and studied and this was decisive in understanding the physical universe. Galileo was a true Renaissance man, excelling at many different endeavors, including lute playing and painting."[30] Galileo is considered by some to have been the true revolutionary (along with Descartes) of the so-called revolution in thought often called the Copernican revolution.[31]

* Blaise Pascal (1623–1662) was a French mathematician, physicist, the first constructor of mechanical calculators, philosopher, theologian, and one of the greatest masters of French prose. Not frequently described as polymath, as the word doesn't exist in French, he was, for instance, praised by Chateaubriand, who said "There was a man who, aged 12, had rediscovered mathematics using rounds and bars; aged 16, written the deepest book on conics seen since Antiquity; aged 19, reduced to mechanical means a science which exists only in the mind; aged 23, found the weight of air, (…), then turned his thoughts towards God (…) giving its definitive shape to the language used later by Bossuet and Racine (…) This frightening genius was named Blaise Pascal" [32]

* Robert Hooke (1635–1703) was an English natural philosopher, architect and the foremost experimental scientist of the English Restoration. He was at one point simultaneously Gresham Professor of Geometry, curator of experiments to the Royal Society and surveyor to the City of London after the great fire of 1666. In addition to the law of elasticity for which he is primarily known he is regarded as the founder of the science of microscopy, has a justifiable claim to have invented the pocket watch balance spring (also attributed to Christiaan Huygens), developed the world's first set of building controls, designed The Monument, the Royal College of Surgeons, Bethlehem Hospital and many of the City churches rebuilt by the Wren partnership, helped Robert Boyle to develop his gas law and deduced that fossils were petrified organic matter and that gravity follows an inverse square law.

* Isaac Newton (1643–1727) was an English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, theologian, natural philosopher and alchemist. His treatise Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica, published in 1687, described universal gravitation and the three laws of motion, laying the groundwork for classical mechanics, which dominated the scientific view of the physical universe for the next three centuries and is the basis for modern engineering. In a 2005 poll of the Royal Society of who had the greatest effect on the history of science, Newton was deemed more influential than Albert Einstein.[33] "When we see Newton as a late Renaissance man, his particular addiction to classical geometry as ancient wisdom and the most reliable way of unveiling the secrets of nature, seems natural."[34]

* Gottfried Leibniz (1646–1716); "Leibniz was a polymath who made significant contributions in many areas of physics, logic, mathematics, history, librarianship, and of course philosophy and theology, while also working on ideal languages, mechanical clocks, mining machinery…"[35] "A universal genius if ever there was one, and an inexhaustible source of original and fertile ideas, Leibniz was all the more interested in logic because it …"[36] "Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz was maybe the last Universal Genius incessantly active in the fields of theology, philosophy, mathematics, physics, …"[36] "Leibniz was perhaps the last great Renaissance man who in Bacon's words took all knowledge to be his province."[37]

* Benjamin Franklin (1706–1790); "The ultimate creole intellectual… A true polymath of the Enlightenment style, he distinguished himself on both sides of the Atlantic by researches in natural sciences as well as politics and literature." He was a leading author, political theorist, politician, printer, scientist, inventor, civic activist, publisher and diplomat.

* Mikhail Vasilyevich Lomonosov (1711–1765) was a Russian polymath, scientist and writer, who made important contributions to literature, education, and science. His spheres of interest were natural science, chemistry, physics, mineralogy, history, art, philology, optical devices and others. He discovered the atmosphere of Venus during its transit[38] and proposed the idea of conservation of matter.[39] Lomonosov was also a poet, who created the basis of the modern Russian literary language.

* Maria Gaetana Agnesi (1718–1799) a great female polymath. Born in Milan, Italy, she was only the second ever female university professor, a brilliant linguist, geometer, theology, logician, algebraist, mathematician and philosopher.[40]. She wrote a book discussing differential and integral calculus. A child prodigy she spoke French as well as her native Italian from five years of age and in childhood also acquired Greek, Hebrew, Spanish, German and Latin. From age nine, she was delivering educated talks and later lectures, including a famous logical claim for the right of women to a full and equal education with men. Appointed by Pope Benedict XIV to Bologna University chair of mathematics.[41][42]

* Thomas Jefferson (1743–1826). Jefferson, the third President of the United States, was "the walking, talking embodiment of the Enlightenment, a polymath whose list of achievements is as long as it is incredibly varied."[43]. He was a philosopher, author, lawyer, architect, musician, naturalist, botanist, inventor, engineer, statesman, diplomat, and political theorist. At a dinner honoring Nobel laureates, John F. Kennedy famously said "I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together in the White House—with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."[44]

* Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749–1832) was a German poet, novelist, playwright, natural philosopher, diplomat, civil servant. His works span the fields of poetry, drama, literature, theology, philosophy, humanism and science. Goethe's magnum opus, lauded as one of the peaks of world literature, is the two-part drama Faust.[45] "Germany's greatest man of letters—poet, critic, playwright, and novelist—and the last true polymath to walk the earth"[46] "Goethe comes as close to deserving the title of a universal genius as any man who has ever lived".[47] "He was essentially the last great European Renaissance man."[48] His gifts included incalculable contributions to the areas of German literature and the natural sciences. He is credited with discovery of a bone in the human jaw, and proposed a theory of colors. He has a mineral named in his honor, goethite. He molded the aesthetic properties of the Alps to poetry, thus, changing the local belief from "perfectly hideous" and an "unavoidable misery," to grandeur of the finest most brilliant creation.

* Thomas Young (13 June 1773 – 10 May 1829) was an English polymath who made notable contributions to the fields of vision, light, solid mechanics, energy, physiology, language, musical harmony and Egyptology.[49]

* Jose Rizal (1861–1896), a Filipino patriot, an ophthalmologist, poet, journalist, novelist, volcanologist, biologist, political scientist, painter and polyglot.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 02:24 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:

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Je hebt ze gesproken? Avicenna staat sinds zijn bijdrage aan de wetenschap waar dan ook in de wereld bekend als een uomo universale, ook ten tijde van de renaissance. Niet in de allerlaatste plaats vanwege de intrede van het aristotelisch-scholastieke denken in Europa.
[..]

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Bron?

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Heel leuk en aardig, maar Da Vinci heeft de term uomo universale niet bedacht.
[..]

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In de wetenschap worden de Iraniers beschouwd als blanken. Een antropoloog zal je dan ook niet serieus nemen met zo'n uitspraak.

SPOILER

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Uomo universale:
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Niets met huidskleur te maken.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 02:31 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:
Lijst van uomo universales.
[..]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Renaissance_men

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 14:39 schreef DeParo het volgende:
Heb jij ze gesproken.

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Een hoestende man, verscholen onder een donkere hoed, in een stoffe parkeergarage.

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Dat klopt, maar wel het voorbeeld gegeven van de homo universales, tsja.
Waarom zeg je eigenlijk geen homo, voel je je daar te goed voor, en kom niet aanzetten met dat uomo universale ook een term is want dat is niet jouw reden. Ik zag je wel reageren in homo's en adoptiekinderen.

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Dan moet ik je bij deze toch gelijk geven.

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Vraag het Da Vinci.
Niet Wikipedia.
Dat is toch geen bron uit de Rennaissance ik dacht dat jij dat wel zou weten.

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Ik dacht even een bron uit de geschriften van Leonarde Da Vinci.
Maar neen.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 14:49 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:

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Nee, maar de renaissance is mijn tijd.
[..]

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Niet serieus te nemen dus, geen bronnen of wat dan ook. Je weet dat ik gelijk heb.
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De Nederlandse term is 'uomo universale'. Van mij part is het 'homo universale'. Ik heb daar geen problemen mee. Nu niet spijkers op laag water zoeken DeParo.
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Een prachtig moment! Ik weet dat je het wel kan!
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Wikipedia heeft hierin gelijk. En jij begon erover dat een uomo universale enkel blank kan zijn. Wat dus echt dikke onzin dus. Ik wil best een topic openen in C&H, maar ik bespaar je het leed.
[..]

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Da Vinci heeft hier helemaal niets mee te maken. Hij is enkel één van de vele uomo universales.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 14:54 schreef DeParo het volgende:
Ik plaats het in de context, ik denk niet dat ze in de Rennaissance, deze titel ook aan iemand uit het huidige Iran gegeven zouden hebben tsja, je weet hoeveel slaven ze sowieso hebben gehaald uit dat gebied, en dan ook nog daartussen iemand met dergelijke capaciteiten dat lijkt me sterk.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 15:00 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:

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Wat jij 'denkt' is volkomen irrelevant. Het gaat erom dat die criteria (een blanke huidskleur) in geen enkele bron naar voren komt. Sterker nog; Avicenna was in de tijd van de renaissance een gerespecteerde man, ongeacht zijn afkomst. De Iraniers hebben - gezien hun rijke geschiedenis - nooit in een kwaad daglicht gestaan bij de Europeanen destijds. In tegendeel juist. De Iraniers werden overigens niet als slaven gehaald, nooit.

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Op donderdag 6 mei 2010 15:03 schreef DeParo het volgende:

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Nooit zegt hij, of ben jij zo in Europa terecht gekomt AR, als slaaf.
Maakt mij niet uit verder hoor.