Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) #2

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:35 schreef Klummie het volgende:

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Do u have any evidence for this? Innocent until proven ( without any reasonable doubt) quilty.

Yes,Innocent until proven guilty..I can show you why there is more than strong suspicion that is exactly what happened. But I am on the internet like you are and not a Aruban Police Detective.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:

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Yes,Innocent until proven guilty..I can show you why there is more than strong suspicion that is exactly what happened. But I am on the internet like you are and not a Aruban Police Detective.

Please show us, we r very curious

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:43 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

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If he had bulletproof evidence, would he be talking to us or the authorities right now?

Besides, this is not a court of law but an internet forum. We are posting personal opinions and sharing information, we are not in the role of prosecutors. Its irrelevant.

A good advice, don't give this guy too much credits. He's provocate all the time in discussions with his 'evidence' argument.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:35 schreef Klummie het volgende:

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Please show us, we r very curious

Hi Klummie..You have to believe what I am telling you and trust that I will provide everything why I make these claims. It is just very time consuming for me looking everything up,copying and pasting. Just last week the editor of Diario newspaper stated that he has a witness a bartender that watched two of the suspects escort Natalee out of the bar because she was weak on her feet. I have also spoken to Dan Riehl from Riehl World View Blog who had talked to two other witnesses that saw Deepak escort Natalee out of the bar holding her 10 minutes after everyone else. I have never thought that Natalee was drunk,wild and decided to go for a ride with three strangers. Also Joran told the students he was from holland and staying at the hotel that she stayed at. It was all a setup and all lies. Joran also had drugged and sexually assaulted 3 others in Aruba before Natalee even went there to vacation. They did go to the police and nothing was ever done. They were also coming forward and hired lawyers but we feel they were threatened or discouraged from doing so. I am telling you,these people have top live in Aruba and there is fear about testifying in this case.

All of the early PV'S or transcripts the suspects all talk about Natalee going in and out of conscioussness..Joran specificly states he was fingering her while she struggled to remain awake. Freddy states she collapsed on the beach..This is all proven and listed in the interrogations listed on the internet. Joran bragged about dropping drugs into girls drinks and this is commen knowledge. I can back everything up and no doubt in my mind she was drugged. Lots more info out there why most everyone believes she was drugged and most likely with GHB.
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Aug. 1, 2005 Jossy on OReilly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWePBCccJiE

Known to have problems with anger and anger management..Flies off the bat most often..At school he had problems,Problems where he goes to drink..He goes to conquer these tourist girls..etc..Jossy confirms rumors about Joran dropping drugs into girls drinks or having someone else do it..Kids from Joran's school at the ISA have informed him that Joran has bragged about it..

Paul VDS was very permissive with him..Let him get away with everything..Father was been seen with him gambling in the Casino and letting him drink.
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Two Observations Thursday, June 23, 2005

Snip from RWV Archive
The second observation will sound like gossip, which basically, it is - please take that into account. If it didn't come through an extremely reliable source on the island, I would not mention it at all.

In talking with an adult professional from Aruba who knew Joran, the individual stated that Joran often bragged to him of his many "sexual conquests" resulting from the use of an illicit substance slipped into a woman's drink and the Aruban individual suggested Joran was a "psychopath."

I doubt that the source of these statements is a certified psychologist, but if he is repeating these types of statements to individuals in and around the investigation, it will likely come out and be proven or disproven in any potential trial. And noone should be considered guilty of anything without one.

http://www.riehlworldview(...)two_observation.html

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:02 schreef observer777 het volgende:

This is a small tidbit but very peculiar..You have a show called Opsporing Verzocht which is like our Americas Most Wanted..Normally they get actors they look very similar to the criminals they portray..So people will recognize them and come forward. But when this show was done in Aruba they had a black islander playing the role of Joran..Not only did he not look anything like him but he was older a different race. We were told the higher powers in Aruba restricted what the dutch program could do and made them pick from people just in the police academy. This is absurd..How could they pick this guy to portray the main suspect a dutch white guy in the biggest murder case ever in Aruba..Why would they do this? Does this look anything like Joran Van Der Sloot? This was just one of the many things that made everyone sick who watched this story broadcasted in the Netherlands.
Opsporing Verzocht is een opsporingsmiddel van politie en justitie. Deze twee diensten bepalen de inhoud van het programma tot in elk detail.

Opsporing verzocht is a tool to solve crimes for the police and DA's office. They decide the content of the show into the smallest detail
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Actor who played Joran Van Der Sloot in Opsporing Verzocht Reenactment of the Natalee Holloway case in Aruba
[ afbeelding ]

i remember that actor. it caused a bit of stir here as well.
peter r. de vries mentioned this also in his earlier programs about the natalee-case.
the opsporing verzocht program was heavily criticized because of that.

the cover up is backfiring big time now.
but it backfired already a long time ago i think. right from the beginning.
they played that cover up very very badly.

to bring some dutch politics into this.
not to start a political discussion with other dutch users, just for background information.

we have a party over here called PVV. it is a anti-islam party.
not that many seats in parliament. but the leader makes often very controversial statement so he gets a lot of media attention.
a couple of weeks ago one MP of this party said he wanted to sell the dutch antilles and aruba on ebay because it are such a deeply corrupt bunch if islands (mainly drugs of course).
this caused a huge stir because a parlemantairy commitee was just visiting the islands and there are major changes underway regarding the status of the islands in the dutch kingdom.

the other political parties can't just agree with PVV because this party is portrait (and i agree for the most part) as a radical non-tolerant party. the leader is bringing a anti-islam documentairy out soon (huge story before peter r. announced his breakthrough!)
so if the PVV says: aruba and the antilles are extremely corrupt. automatically the other parties and especially the government-coalition parties are disagreeing.

this could be why the dutch government is hesitating to step in and clean up the mess. because that would be siding with the PVV party.

it think it would technically be possible for the queen the step in, dismiss the aruban cabinet en parliament and impose direct rule by a governor who answers back the to dutch governement in the hague.

but of course this is not going to happen.

the queen can't do anything without approval of the dutch cabinet with support of the dutch parlaiment.
today the PVV asked for spoeddebat (emergency debate?) in parliament. but it was not supported.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:

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Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.

She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.

Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.

You're saying: Holloway suffered a massive head injury at Joran's den. So I suppose there's forensic (DNA proof) evidence to back this up? And if so, why is this fact unknown to the public? Why didn't police and state attorney's do anything with this information, but instead seem to believe Joran's version in which Natalee dies at the beach.
And what happened to Joran's younger brother (who allegedly was also at the main building of the Van der Sloot estate and sleeping) while their father disposed the body and instructed Joran, Deepak and Satish? Did he sleep through it all? Or is he an accomplish?

[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Ryan3 op 06-02-2008 01:59:48 ]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:03 schreef observer777 het volgende:
I really believe these may be important clues into what happened to Natalee. I know Joran's American Lawyer has said that the VCB shirt found had forensic material on it and has been linked to Natalee's case. Why they waited a year to arrest GVC I have no idea..
On June 5th 2005 a Bloody Mattress was found on the southern tip of the island called grapefield beach,it was saturated with Blood with a dead dog found near it. Within 3 hours the Arubans said it was dogs blood and not linked to the case. Also found were a pair of sandals. This was the same day the 2 innocent security guards were arrested.

On June 6th 2005 in the colony area also the southern part of the island A VCB Security shirt(Rumored to have blood on it)was found with styraphone with teeth marks,a pair of sunglasses and suspicious materials inside of a lysol bottle. There was also a phone call on this day alerting people to search another area called weg fontein. Aruban officials have never stated that the findings are not related to Natalees dissapearance.

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On June 7th Awemainta newspaper said Natalee was dead..The next day they said they made a mistake and that it was a 17 yr old male who died and not Natalee.

[ afbeelding ]

Have you ever been to Aruba yourself?
Everywhere along the coastline is rubbish, how many shoes and shirts do you want?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:43 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

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If he had bulletproof evidence, would he be talking to us or the authorities right now?

Besides, this is not a court of law but an internet forum. We are posting personal opinions and sharing information, we are not in the role of prosecutors. Its irrelevant. (the Innocent until proven part)

Your exactly right..I do not have a smoking gun and I am a internet blogger just like all of you..I wish to god I could end this case right now as I would do it in a heartbeat. I am not even the type to get involved in a missing persons case,it just happened and like so many others I cant move on until it is solved. What they did to this girl and her family is the most unbelievable series of events I have ever seen in my life by far.

I am someone who has read and followed everything about this case since day one and spent thousands of hours researching it. I believe I am as knowledgeable as anyone regarding this case. I just want to share with you what happened in this case since May 29th 2005. I try not to post my personal opinion very often but I want to show you events,transcripts,statements,news reports,articles,video footage,pictures and interrogations in hopes that someone else or together we can put together the pieces and solve this nightmare.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:54 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:

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You're saying: Holloway suffered a massive head injury at Joran's den. So I suppose there's forensic (DNA proof) evidence to back this up? And if so, why is this fact unknown to the public? Why didn't police and state attorney's do anything with this information, but instead seem to believe Joran's version in which Natalee dies at the beach.
And what happened to Joran's younger brother (who allegedly was also at the main building of the Van der Sloot estate and sleeping) while their father disposed the body and instructed Joran, Deepak and Satish? Did he sleep through it all? Or is he an accomplish?

Well there probably would have been forensic evidence if they would have searched the house. Remember that house was never searched until like april 2007..Two years too late.Did you see Peter De Vries first program? Well there is alot more to why they restricted the search of that house the day of the search. They only searched Joran's little Apt and the two cars and that was 17 days after Natalee vanished!! There was a article in Papamiento from that Judge last month stating why he restricted the search. He blamed the Prosecuters office and commissioner Dompig and they blame him. They are caught red handed in this lie! Can anyone translate Papi here? He said the Prosecuters office never asked to search anything more,while Dompig says they were denied searching that house. The Judge says Dompig obstructed justice and asked for Van Der Sloots privacy and not to search the house So many times PJK2 stated that Natalee hit her head when getting out of the carit is all in the documents. Why would they say that? Why would PVDS tell two different people including Joran's headmaster that Natalee may have hit her head and drowned? Why would they report blood in Deeepaks car..It wasnt just one person,But The Prime Minsiter,Minister of Justice,FBI and a couple of Aruban police officers.

I wasnt in the sloot house and I dont know what Val was doing but look at the computer records..Val was on the x-plane site after 2am on a school night!! This kid also had on his internet site talking about a dead girl in his bathtub. He could have been the alibi on the computer or it could have been one of Jorans friends. I dont even think he was questioned until the year 2007. I think Val is a good kid and was not involved but may know something.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:56 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

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Have you ever been to Aruba yourself?
Everywhere along the coastline is rubbish, how many shoes and shirts do you want?

Haha..Yes I am sure the tide brings in a lot of shoes,shirts and debris the tourists and natives leave behind. How often do they have Mattresses saturated with blood and a dog slaughtered next to it?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 00:33 schreef observer777 het volgende:

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Hello Harajuku! I only have theories about what happened to Natalee and can only speculate. When I have time if you are interested I will tell you them all. I have 3 scenarios that might have happened with many possibilities. I will tell you the main theory amongst people that have followed this case since day one. Many different scenarious but these few details I feel strongly about.

She was administered GHB at Carlos and Charlies and was most likely filmed or raped. At some point she woke up and fought back and suffered a massive head injury. At some point she was definetly at the Van Der Sloot house and left forensic evidence. Joran called his Father who instructed the boys what to do and the cover up started. PVDS either dropped them off or picked them up around 3-4AM.

Satish was probably dropped off at home and Deepak,Joran,Guido and probably Freddy were together. Lorenzo plays a role in this some how,just not sure exactly how at this time. Also a possibility that Koen Gottenbos(Or Sander) plays a role,possibly by using his boat for disposal.

i don't believe this, if so many people were involved, somebody, had already talked/confess a long time ago.
i know someone who has been convicted of murder, there were 5 people involved, he was betrayed, thats why he got caught!

This is good reading and put together very well..Well worth the read!!!!
Corruption and Collusion within the Aruban government
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=615.0

You may have seen this site..I have not read much of it because it is in dutch.
Dutch website exposing some of the corruption in Aruba.

http://www.koninginnlwatismensenrechten.com

http://www.koninginnlwati(...)standen/page0002.htm

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:21 schreef THEFXR het volgende:

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i don't believe this, if so many people were involved, somebody, had already talked/confess a long time ago.
i know someone who has been convicted of murder, there were 5 people involved, he was betrayed, thats why he got caught!

Hallo,Did it happen in Aruba? I am telling you he did confess in his second day under arrest!! This case was solved in June 2005,I am sure of it! They do not want the truth to come out and they have protected this kid and his father since day one. It is mind boggling though,because I do feel that many people know what happened.

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:20 schreef observer777 het volgende:

Haha..Yes I am sure the tide brings in a lot of shoes,shirts and debris the tourists and natives leave behind. How often do they have Mattresses saturated with blood and a dog slaughtered next to it?

Not much, but I am on Aruba right know and if I will do a search today I'm sure I will find at least one of these 2 items...

BTW. Can you tell me why Americans are so rude to Aruba?
Before this case many Americans came to the island and now they keep away. Only 5 US cruise ships out of 10 before still entering the harbour of Oranjestad.
Are those people all so hypocrital as I think/know they are? Never heared about the murdered people in their own country which cases are also never solved?

Are you admin at SM? iI so, can you add me to the forum? I'm waiting for approval...

At 3AM in the Netherlands there will be a radio show with the below guests. You can listen to the Podcast when you wake up at the below link. You can also listen to previous shows with this link. Jossy Mansur,Beth Holloway,Jug Twitty and others have been on this show and provide some good interviews.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/category/scared-monkeys-radio/

* Robin Sax, author, speaker, media analyst and Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney
* Christopher Darden, Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Prosecutor
* George “Jug” Twitty, Natalee Holloway’s stepfather
* Dr. Andrew Hodges, author of Into The Deep: The Hidden Confession of Natalee’s Killer
* Jossy Mansur, Managing Editor of Diario, discussing recent developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation
* Art Wood, former Secret Service agent discussing the Natalee Holloway case.

[ Bericht 15% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 03:18:52 ]

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:32 schreef observer777 het volgende:

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Hallo,Did it happen in Aruba? I am telling you he did confess in his second day under arrest!! This case was solved in June 2005,I am sure of it! They do not want the truth to come out and they have protected this kid and his father since day one. It is mind boggling though,because I do feel that many people know what happened.

it happened in the netherlands

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 02:32 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

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Not much, but I am on Aruba right know and if I will do a search today I'm sure I will find at least one of these 2 items...

BTW. Can you tell me why Americans are so rude to Aruba?
Before this case many Americans came to the island and now they keep away. Only 5 US cruise ships out of 10 before still entering the harbour of Oranjestad.
Are those people all so hypocrital as I think/know they are? Never heared about the murdered people in their own country which cases are also never solved?

Are you admin at SM? iI so, can you add me to the forum? I'm waiting for approval...

Hi!! Well those two items will be in your newspapers from those days..I researched every newspaper and saved what was still available..I have never seen the pic of the bloody mattress..They said it wasnt related and was never talked about again.

It is a difficult discussion,I know Arubans have met them and they are nice good people..I know all to well about the MEP in your Govt and I dont blame the good people of Aruba..Is tourism down in Aruba? You really have to understand what we have seen come out of Aruba since June 2005..Just a few weeks ago..Minister Briesen and Rudy Croes invited these two fake psychics to Aruba and they were in every newspaper,tele-aruba and Top 95 lying about the most evil things about Natalee and her Family..They offered no proof then left the island..Did you see that? It's just one small example of what some Americans have seen. Julia Renfo of Aruba Today and others have truly done the most despicable acts and lies I have ever seen in my life to Natalee and her family

I truly am sorry that it is affecting the innocent Aruban people,I wish to god they could oust that Govt and finally give this girl a honest investigation. As far as the tourist from America that go to Aruba..I find it amazing they would come to your country and be rude!! I am a Moderater at SM and if you give me your name I will get you approved..Please try to understand there are ignorant americans as there are Arubans..If you ever have a problem please let me know. There isnt many Arubans posting there as most dissapeared way back in june 2005..I miss seeing them!!

Please try to see what I see..But in July 2005 the Aruban's didn't protest vs the awful investigation instead they protested vs Natalee's Mom..One person even came on camera told the family to shut up,get over it and go home.I know it was Govt organized so I dont blame you at all..Just showing you what we have seen from your country since 2005..Very few have stepped up and demanded answers and a honest investigation.

Natalee Holloway Update 41: Andrew Hodges on Dutch TV, Deepak and Satish still involved. Lorenzo van R. believed to be 'Daury' by Native Arubans

Andrew Hodges, the forensic psychologist who has been involved in the case since the beginning, has just espoused the theory that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe were responsible for raping Natalee together with Joran van der Sloot. "He is lying on that tape. I suspect the kalpoes are involved. They were cleaning their car obsessively after the disappearance, for one thing."

Meanwhile Dutch TV program Netwerk reported that the Arubans know who Joran's accomplice with the boat was, a certain Lorenzo R., his half-brother. Lorenzo R. is a known underworld figure on Aruba. He was arrested in November of last year in connection to an illegal marijuana plantation. Apparently they've kept quiet about this because Lorenzo's superiors in the Aruban underworld were not prepared to do without him. He is already being held for questioning by the police.

http://equivocationnation.blogspot.com/

Video asking them to question Lorenzo Van Rijn (In Dutch)Half Brother of Joran

http://player.omroep.nl/?serid=23&start=00:00:00&end=00:00:00

[ Bericht 3% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 05:30:01 ]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:11 schreef observer777 het volgende:

Hi!! Well those two items will be in your newspapers from those days..I researched every newspaper and saved what was still available..I have never seen the pic of the bloody mattress..They said it wasnt related and was never talked about again.

Never heared about it before, but that's not the point here.

quote:

It is a difficult discussion,I know Arubans have met them and they are nice good people..I know all to well about the MEP in your Govt and I dont blame the good people of Aruba..Is tourism down in Aruba? You really have to understand what we have seen come out of Aruba since June 2005..Just a few weeks ago..Minister Briesen and Rudy Croes invited these two fake psychics to Aruba and they were in every newspaper,tele-aruba and Top 95 lying about the most evil things about Natalee and her Family..They offered no proof then left the island..Did you see that? It's just one small example of what some Americans have seen. Julia Renfo of Aruba Today and others have truly done the most despicable acts and lies I have ever seen in my life to Natalee and her family

I've seen those 2 shrinks, but I didn't knew they were invited by the Aruban gouvernment...
I'm not from Aruba myself, I'm from Amsterdam, Holland. I'm on Aruba right now, visiting friends who work in the tourism section of the island and they really feel the dropdown of American tourists every day.
Ofcourse, there are good and bad people all around the world, but why are the US people keep bashing whole Aruba and it's economical position for this case? Are they all guilty, did they all helped Joran van der Sloot or...?
I visit Aruba very often and although I don't want to say that there is no corruption or anything like that at all, I think corruption is everywhere (also in the US) and that's what i call the hypocritical part of the story...

quote:

I truly am sorry that it is affecting the innocent Aruban people,I wish to god they could oust that Govt and finally give this girl a honest investigation. As far as the tourist from America that go to Aruba..I find it amazing they would come to your country and be rude!! I am a Moderater at SM and if you give me your name I will get you approved..Please try to understand there are ignorant americans as there are Arubans..If you ever have a problem please let me know. There isnt many Arubans posting there as most dissapeared way back in june 2005..I miss seeing them!!

The US people that vist Aruba aren't that rude, I mean some people at the SM forum (you don't need quotes I think), the governeur of Alabama, other politicians and those TV-people like Oprah and Dr. Phil. They all had their words about Aruba and it's very easy to bring a small island/country in disgrace. But do they know what they are doing? I guess not...

I registered under the nick 'MadMaster' @ SM.
Please let me in...

quote:

Please try to see what I see..But in July 2005 the Aruban's didn't protest vs the awful investigation instead they protested vs Natalee's Mom..One person even came on camera told the family to shut up,get over it and go home.I know it was Govt organized so I dont blame you at all..Just showing you what we have seen from your country since 2005..Very few have stepped up and demanded answers and a honest investigation.
[ afbeelding ]
[ afbeelding ]

For me personal, I want a good investigation too.
To be honoust, imo Beth Twitty made a fool of herself after Natalee was lost. I understand, nobody wants to see her daughter disappear, but the way she acted at that time (against Aruba once more...) was foollish and understandable that some locals were protesting against her.

I'm not sure if the Aruban gouverment is really involved the way you say.
Maybe they did work not very well, maybe Joran is just smart enough. The whole is watching them again right now with all problems that comes with it. I know Aruba is not happy with case and it doesn't do them any good. So why would they cover the case while they know their economical position will dropp again after it was climbing up a little last year?

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:33 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

Never heared about it before, but that's not the point here.
[..]

I've seen those 2 shrinks, but I didn't knew they were invited by the Aruban gouvernment...
I'm not from Aruba myself, I'm from Amsterdam, Holland. I'm on Aruba right now, visiting friends who work in the tourism section of the island and they really feel the dropdown of American tourists every day.
Ofcourse, there are good and bad people all around the world, but why are the US people keep bashing whole Aruba and it's economical position for this case? Are they all guilty, did they all helped Joran van der Sloot or...?
I visit Aruba very often and although I don't want to say that there is no corruption or anything like that at all, I think corruption is everywhere (also in the US) and that's what i call the hypocritical part of the story...
[..]

The US people that vist Aruba aren't that rude, I mean some people at the SM forum (you don't need quotes I think), the governeur of Alabama, other politicians and those TV-people like Oprah and Dr. Phil. They all had their words about Aruba and it's very easy to bring a small island/country in disgrace. But do they know what they are doing? I guess not...

I registered under the nick 'MadMaster' @ SM.
Please let me in...
[..]

For me personal, I want a good investigation too.
To be honoust, imo Beth Twitty made a fool of herself after Natalee was lost. I understand, nobody wants to see her daughter disappear, but the way she acted at that time (against Aruba once more...) was foollish and understandable that some locals were protesting against her.

I'm not sure if the Aruban gouverment is really involved the way you say.
Maybe they did work not very well, maybe Joran is just smart enough. The whole is watching them again right now with all problems that comes with it. I know Aruba is not happy with case and it doesn't do them any good. So why would they cover the case while they know their economical position will dropp again after it was climbing up a little last year?

We should maybe chat on a PM..We have a lot to talk about..It's simple the Defense,Prosecution,Police and Judges all worked together to protect these pimps and cover up a murder of a young girl. Then the Aruban Govt has spent much money on a campaign to slander,lie and spread wrong information about this poor family and her daughter who was murdered..At the same time they depend on Americans for 70% percent of the total revenue for that island..Natalee did not run away to brazil,her father did not impregnate her,she was not a drug addict,she did not run away!!!!!!!!etc etc etc..

Like I stated the good people of Aruba should not suffer and I feel bad for them but something has to give here. No one has tried to help this poor girl and her family except Jossy Mansur. It has been relentlis from the ATA,AHATA and fake Aruban reporters spreading horrendous info about this murdered victim and her family. ATA has no business being involved in a murder investigation!! They have never stopped!! I disagree totally about Beth acting foolish..Do you have any idea what she has been through? Why was Paul Van Der Sloots best friend allowed to lead a murder investigation for his best friend and his son? I could go on and on..The conflict of interest was enormous and Beth suffered big..Her daughter will never be coming home.

I am sorry about rude posters!! I have seen many Arubans and Americans in Aruba doing the same thing! Lets be civil and talk this out..

You have been approved at SM!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 03:59 schreef observer777 het volgende:

We should maybe chat on a PM..We have a lot to talk about..It's simple the Defense,Prosecution,Police and Judges all worked together to protect these pimps and cover up a murder of a young girl. Then the Aruban Govt has spent much money on a campaign to slander,lie and spread wrong information about this poor family and her daughter who was murdered..At the same time they depend on Americans for 70% percent of the total revenue for that island..Natalee did not run away to brazil,her father did not impregnate her,she was not a drug addict,she did not run away!!!!!!!!etc etc etc..

Like I stated the good people of Aruba should not suffer and I feel bad for them but something has to give here. No one has tried to help this poor girl and her family except Jossy Mansur. It has been relentlis from the ATA,AHATA and fake Aruban reporters spreading horrendous info about this murdered victim and her family. ATA has no business being involved in a murder investigation!! They have never stopped!! I disagree totally about Beth acting foolish..Do you have any idea what she has been through? Why was Paul Van Der Sloots best friend allowed to lead a murder investigation for his best friend and his son? I could go on and on..The conflict of interest was enormous and Beth suffered big..Her daughter will never be coming home.

I am sorry about rude posters!! I have seen many Arubans and Americans in Aruba doing the same thing! Lets be civil and talk this out..

You have been approved at SM!

Let me say this as a short anwer, I simply don't have enough time to get into this case too deep:
Like I said before, errors have been made on both sides but I don't believe that the economical situation of Aruba, which wasn't that good already before this case happened, have to suffer even more because the Aruban/Dutch (??) gouvernment is covering Paul v/d Sloot and his son & friends.
I simply can't see the point of that, imo there's not even a reason for that.

And maybe I call Beth foolish because I think she's a little bit over the top with her (re)actions. Meanwhile I know that she has lost her daughter, but simply kickin' and bashing everybody around didn't solved any case...

Thanks for letting me in at SM, I will show up sooner or later...

See you at SM..I hope you can see our point of view..Many of the posters there have followed this case since 2005 and are extremely knowledgeable about most everything that has happened. I hope it is a good learning experience for everyone.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 04:36 schreef observer777 het volgende:
See you at SM..I hope you can see our point of view..Many of the posters there have followed this case since 2005 and are extremely knowledgeable about most everything that has happened. I hope it is a good learning experience for everyone.

I'm sorry for being 'different', but I'm not gonna tell a different story overthere then I do overhere...

Hi observer777,

You seem to have a lot of information about this case. I would like to ask you the following questions. Maybe you have the answers.

1. Why was this initial poster put up if Beth immediately knew (so she said on TV) that her daughter was harmed or kidnapped? Did she think Natalee was still alive then?



which is later replaced by this poster:



2. Why were the friends of Natalee not questioned by the Aruban police and immediately flew home the day after Natalee went missing?

3. What happened to the Mr. Joe Mammana who helped Beth in her search for Natalee?


4. It took 6 months for Natalees name te be on the FBI's missing persons list? Do you maybe know why?

5. What does Scared Monkeys think about the boycot of Aruba in November 2005 of Gov. Riley (see: Boycot Aruba and the Twitty's, while Aruba probably did everything possible to help the Twitty - Holloway family in their search for Natalee?
That while Jug Twitty has send this letter To Gov Riley in august 2005?

6. Is it true that Gerald Dompig couldn't do a research on the background of the Holloway-Twitty's and was threatened by the FBI because of that?

7. What do you think about this Dutch documentary of Netwerk (aired on July 5th 2007) about the case?

Netwerk (5 juli 2007) - Part 1
Netwerk (5 juli 2007) - Part 2

or without English voice-over KLIK

I'm just curious. I hope you or SM have some answers on my questions. Thanks in advance

Now I go to sleep I hopefully will read you answer later

[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door BwennieBren op 06-02-2008 05:52:03 ]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 05:37 schreef MadMaster het volgende:

[..]

I'm sorry for being 'different', but I'm not gonna tell a different story overthere then I do overhere...

I want people from Aruba and Holland to post over at SM..Trust me many Americans don't know very much about the case and only see what the American media has shown and it has been awful coverage with people that know nothing about the case. You are doing good and I appreciate you talking to so many with so many questions..But I think you don't know everything about this case and what we all have been through..I hope you take a interest because over and over again I see scared people in Aruba that truly don't even know what took place in there own country. Some do,but most don't!!

Like that poster was trying to tell you,the OM kept asking Natalee's Family if she had seizures just a few days after she dissapeared..She never ever had any history of that and the Family thought it was strange the Aruban Authorities kept asking them that!! We all saw in Joran's Confession with De Vries he said the same thing and he acted out her shaking violently before she died..I am telling you Joran confessed back in June 2005 and this was all covered up!!

[ Bericht 6% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 06:53:02 ]

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Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 01:47 schreef Yavido het volgende:

[..]

A good advice, don't give this guy too much credits. He's provocate all the time in discussions with his 'evidence' argument.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 06:07 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

I want people from Aruba and Holland to post over at SM..Trust me many Americans don't know very much about the case and only see what the American media has shown and it has been awful coverage with people that know nothing about the case. You are doing good and I appreciate you talking to so many with so many questions..But I think you don't know everything about this case and what we all have been through..I hope you take a interest because over and over again I see scared people in Aruba that truly don't even know what took place in there own country. Some do,but most don't!!

Like that poster was trying to tell you,the OM kept asking Natalee's Family if she had seizures just a few days after she dissapeared..She never ever had any history of that and the Family thought it was strange the Aruban Authorities kept asking them that!! We all saw in Joran's Confession with De Vries he said the same thing and he acted out her shaking violently before she died..I am telling you Joran confessed back in June 2005 and this was all covered up!!

Did Joran also had something to do with 9-11?

I like ur paranoia, u r telling stories that r interesting to read but they don't contain any evidence, just another conspiracy theory. Pity it seems like u start to beleive it.
I did not ead the enitre topic but have u also looked at the stories about natalee being abused by her stepfather and maybe was even pregnant from him?
And far as i'm concerned also that story is just a theory without any proof. Just like every other story about this case.

I don't like joran, he's scum just like a lot of american and dutch teenage boys and me bush, but without evidence, he is already convicted by 'the people' . Totally disgusting.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 05:46 schreef BwennieBren het volgende:
Hi observer777,

You seem to have a lot of information about this case. I would like to ask you the following questions. Maybe you have the answers.
------------------------------------------
Hi,I hope you are sincere and not coming from one of the anti-beths site or are you just misinformed?
Where have you been reading about this case? You really need to go to another blog!! You can't believe a word from the Mouth of Julia Renfro!! She is a proven liar and she is sinister! I am tired so I will do this quickly off the top of my head.
-------------------------------------------
1. Why was this initial poster put up if Beth immediately knew (so she said on TV) that her daughter was harmed or kidnapped? Did she think Natalee was still alive then?
-----------------------------------------
That poster was made by Julia Renfro and Angela M..That is there cell numbers on the posters which they lied about in the video you posted! She probably thought she was alive,she had no reason to lose all hope that first few days.Natalee was a goody two shoes and I would have thought the same thing if Natalee was my daughter. Natalee did not do drugs,never run away before and was a str8 A student. What was she supposed to put on the fliers? Why has Julia Renfro deliberately lied about this murdered victim and her Family? For money or because she is friends of the sloots?Why did she tell the Family Natalee was confirmed dead and to show up at the courthouse for a press conference just a few days after NH dissapeared?Only when they showed up no one was there. Why was she spreading rumors almost daily that Natalee ran away to other countries,ran away with a blue eyed dutch boy? I could write a full page of her lies,she is one sick person!

which is later replaced by this poster:


2. Why were the friends of Natalee not questioned by the Aruban police and immediately flew home the day after Natalee went missing?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Look the kids had scheduled flights home were they supposed to miss all there flights? They didn't even realize Natalee was missing until they were all getting ready to go the airport. They were all questioned extensively by the FBI and later the ALE I beleive,the answers do not lie in Mountain Brook and if someone thinks so they are sadly mistaken. What are they supposed to know about what Joran and the Kalpoes brothers did to her? They were the last ones seen with her and were caught lying immediately.
The Aruban police didn't even take Jug Twitty's statement for like 30 days and others that were there that first night there statements were never taken. The lead investigator Dennis Jacobs was caught changing Beths statement..Can you believe that? When she went back at a much later date they promised her she could make a new statement but instead grilled her on insurance money and dealings with Colombians..Unreal huh? Did you know what lead investigator dennis jacobs asked Natalee's dad when they first met? How much money do you have? Told him to go to Carlos and Charlies and not worry about searching,she will show up,go have a beer,but watch your dink because people put drugs into them!!
3. What happened to the Mr. Joe Mammana who helped Beth in her search for Natalee?
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Not sure..Do you know? I think he took interest because he helps missing and exploited people..Why do you ask? This guy just wanted to help and has nothing to do with anything.
4. It took 6 months for Natalees name te be on the FBI's missing persons list? Do you maybe know why?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm..Good question..You should ask them..
5. What does Scared Monkeys think about the boycot of Aruba in November 2005 of Gov. Riley[/url] (see: and the Twitty's, while Aruba probably did ]everything possible[/url] to help the Twitty - Holloway family in their search for Natalee?
That while Jug Twitty has send ]this letter[/url] To Gov Riley in august 2005?
------------------------------------------------------------------
SM mostly in in full support of a boycott and ask's all americans to stop traveling until Natalee finally gets a honest Investigation and the Aruban Authorities expose the cover up and stop protecting those that murdered Natalee.. But I can't speak for everyone..You should ask them! What was the Family supposed to do?They were already threatened by the lead prosecuter and the mnister of justice that they would stop the case if the family didnt stop complaining. Every hope they had of ever seeing there daughter again rested in the hands of the Arubans..They were helpless and it was absolutely shocking what the Aruban Authorities did to this poor family and natalee.The conflict of interest is unbelievable and so was the cover up. Why was Jan Van Der Straaten allowed to lead the Investigation when his best friend and son were arrested on suspicion of rape,murder and kidnapping? Is it coincidence that they were allowed to roam free for 10 days while they tried to frame to innocent men? You know on June 1st everyone knew they were lying about where they dropped of the girl but still they were allowed to destroy evidence and cover up?
6. Is it true that Gerald Dompig couldn't do a research on the background of the Holloway-Twitty's and was threatened by the FBI because of that?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I don't work for the FBI but this guy Dompig lost all credibility..He has zero. He was trying to dig up dirt and the FBI wanted no part of his dirtball tactics and disinformation campaign..Reminds me of the chief prosecuter who wrote the justice dept in usa asking about beths relation to hitler and if they traveled to austria. What did that have to do with anything? Didnt Jorans Lawyer a few weeks into the Investigation confess to her that Joran played a major role in Natalee's dissapearance but it was up to her to prove it? Isnt that illegal? Did KJ do anything about hearing that info?Dompig? The same guy who said JK2 were guilty as hell?Same guy who on 4 consecutive interviews told completely different things? Same guy who's brother in law help set up two innocent men and distract attention away from the real killers? Same brother in law who said he saw Natalee with cocaine?Dompig,Same guy who asked to block the search of the Van Der Sloot home and was accused by Judge Wit of obstructing justice? Isnt he related to the Kalpoes also?
---------------------------------------------------------------
7. What do you think about this Dutch documentary of Netwerk (aired on July 5th 2007) about the case?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Thats not a dutch documenatry..Arent those people from Aruba lying about the case and friends of the Van Der Sloots? Isn't that Julia Renfro,AngelaM and Rene'e Guilen?Everything in here is a complete lie!! These people really should be in prison for lying,slandering and obstructing a murder investigation..What they are doing to a victim and her family is criminal..I guess people will do anything for money Some people may just be plain evil.

I'm just curious. I hope you or SM have some answers on my questions. Thanks in advance
-------------------------------------------------------
Your welcome..I hope I dont come off rough and believe me I have a ton more to say..I am tired and it's late and this awful campaign and lies have been going on for 32 months now..I hope this answered your questions. I was honest and I hope you are the same.
Now I go to sleep I hopefully will read you answer later

[ Bericht 2% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 08:15:28 ]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 06:07 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Like that poster was trying to tell you,the OM kept asking Natalee's Family if she had seizures just a few days after she dissapeared..She never ever had any history of that and the Family thought it was strange the Aruban Authorities kept asking them that!! We all saw in Joran's Confession with De Vries he said the same thing and he acted out her shaking violently before she died..I am telling you Joran confessed back in June 2005 and this was all covered up!!

this is really unbelievable!!!
joran MUST have told them.

i suspect the were trying to make it into a 'kind of' natural death.
but somehow that didn't work. because of course more happened to natalee, that's why she needed to be disposed of.
but that's already established.

but this is proof that the knew what happened right from the beginning.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:43 schreef Klummie het volgende:

[..]

Did Joran also had something to do with 9-11?

I like ur paranoia, u r telling stories that r interesting to read but they don't contain any evidence, just another conspiracy theory. Pity it seems like u start to beleive it.
I did not ead the enitre topic but have u also looked at the stories about natalee being abused by her stepfather and maybe was even pregnant from him?
And far as i'm concerned also that story is just a theory without any proof. Just like every other story about this case.

I don't like joran, he's scum just like a lot of american and dutch teenage boys and me bush, but without evidence, he is already convicted by 'the people' . Totally disgusting.

Hi Klummie!! Everything I say I can back up!! I wouldn't be here if I couldn't and I will provide as much evidence as I can that is real and can be proven to a degree here on the internet..For some reason I get the feeling that I may never be able to prove anything to you? Please let me know now before I waste my time with you. I don't like conspiracy theories at all trust me..You have got to be kidding me? Natalee pregnant by her stepdad? Cover Up by Natalee's Family??LOL!!! You are way off my friend..Like I said everything I post is the truth and I back everything up..Where are those two freaks that were allowed to come on TV by the Aruban Govt and not prove one thing? Bring them here I will rip them to shreds!!

Hmm..You are way off!! Whats disgusting was the Aruban Govt,they chose to cover up a murder and launch a campaign that lied,slandered and attacked a helpless victim and her family..Believe me Natalee's family wasn't the first they did this to. If they didnt get on that island so quickly and the media attention this would have been like all the other people that vanished or killed themselves..They would know absolutely nothing!!

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 07:58 schreef Caesu het volgende:

[..]

this is really unbelievable!!!
joran MUST have told them.

i suspect the were trying to make it into a 'kind of' natural death.
but somehow that didn't work. because of course more happened to natalee, that's why she needed to be disposed of.
but that's already established.

but this is proof that the knew what happened right from the beginning.

From Jug Twitty on SM Radio 2-6-08
JUG: This thing has been a coverup since day one. They knew Natalee wasn't alive since the second day. They keep asking if Natalee was an epileptic.

Good Morning,They knew this and a whole lot more! Yes,they came out last year to the world saying Natalee died of a cocaine overdose and killed herself. It was all over the American TV here..They did something terrible to the girl thats for sure..If it was a natural death or overdose why the need to get rid of her body forever?

[ Bericht 9% gewijzigd door observer777 op 06-02-2008 08:23:01 ]

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

I agree. These investigations that people do are mostly based on blurs of stories, mixed together with some vague statements from people that are acclaimed to be in on the conspiracy.
I find that hard to believe, and like to remain critical against these stories, except that if you do ever critize these people, you are immediately accused of being 'anti-Holloway' or some other stereotype of person. That really gives the whole discussion an personal twist that is unnessecary imo.

In time If you are being honest I will prove everything to you. These are hardly stories I posted and I consider much of it fact..You should give me a chance.. All the evidence matches up that I speak of..Believe me,Natalee's parents have zero reason to lie about anything. The statements of Aruban officilas and suspects are important because it proves they are lying..You can't dispute that. You can't argue with what came out of there mouth in the newspapers and on TV and then told something totally different or the facts prove otherwise. I am not here to BS anyone at all,I have better things to do with my time..

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:50 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

As they would say in the Matrix; 'You believe want you want to believe'.
Interesting, if you are talking about psychical evidence, in what form are we talking about? Do you have tapes/recordings of the claims that are made? Have you been in Aruba yourself? Or did you collect evidence from other sites/sources?

Like I already stated I do not work for the Aruban Police Dept or KLPD..I don't have access to the dossier that they have refused to show the Family of Natalee. I have done everything possible on my end to solve this case and doing research..It's up to you if you want to believe the pain staking research done by many. I can't prove to you anything if you aren't willing to listen. I didn't come here to argue,I simply came here to share information in hopes of helping put together the final pieces of this puzzle.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/(...)hodges-and-art-wood/

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/podpress_trac/web/459/0/020508.mp3

here is a audio mp3 to listen to a radio show of last night.

* Robin Sax, author, speaker, media analyst and Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney
* Christopher Darden, Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Prosecutor
* George “Jug” Twitty, Natalee Holloway’s stepfather
* Dr. Andrew Hodges, author of Into The Deep: The Hidden Confession of Natalee’s Killer
* Jossy Mansur, Managing Editor of Diario, discussing recent developments in the Natalee Holloway investigation
* Art Wood, former Secret Service agent discussing the Natalee Holloway case.

really good insights

mentioned earlier bij Observer777:

in dutch because this is crucial:

de stiefvader zegt hier in dit radioprogramma dat een paar dagen na natalee's verdwijning de politie hem vele keren vroeg of natalee weleens epileptische aanvallen had gehad. jug twitty onkende dit en begreep maar niet waarom ze dat vroegen. wat had dit met de zaak te maken?
nu in de tapes van peter r. de vries vertelden en laat joran zien hoe natalee zat te shaken en te trillen.
dit moet joran dus al vanaf het begin aan de politie hebben verteld!!!
anders vragen ze het niet herhaaldelijk aan jug twitty toch terwijl hij zegt dat natalee dit nooit gehad heeft?
hoe komen ze daar anders bij?

joran heeft dus al meteen begin juni 2005 bekend.
waarschijnlijk probeerde de politie er zo een natuurlijke dood van te maken zodat het geen ernstige zaak was die toerisme kon schaden.
maar dit lukte allemaal niet want het was geen natuurlijke dood - duidelijk aan het lichaam te zien, daarom moest het gedumpt worden.

luister maar naar het radioprogramma, we hebben ook naar joran geluisterd afgelopen zondag.
dit is cruciaal imo.

quote:

Op woensdag 6 februari 2008 08:36 schreef Scorpie het volgende:

[..]

I agree. These investigations that people do are mostly based on blurs of stories, mixed together with some vague statements from people that are acclaimed to be in on the conspiracy.
I find that hard to believe, and like to remain critical against these stories, except that if you do ever critize these people, you are immediately accused of being 'anti-Holloway' or some other stereotype of person. That really gives the whole discussion an personal twist that is unnessecary imo.

if beth didn't organise such a campaign to find what happened to her daughter but instead just waited in Alabma for Aruba to solve this.
if there was no boycott.
if there was such a big news 'hype' about it.

i doubt Peter R. de Vries would have picked this case up.
and i doubt Patrick would have come forward.

but i am sure Joran would have been roaming around causing trouble and getting away with it.