Amerikanen schieten bevrijder van Italiaanse dood.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 20:54 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
Ja hoor. Zij heeft dat gat in haar longen zeker ook zelf verzonnen.

quote:

Àls het idd triggerhappy gung-ho soldaten zijn geweest, ben ik het wel met je eens dat de werkelijke verantwoordelijken in Washington zitten, maar die soldaat een 'slachtoffer' te noemen lijkt me ongeveer hetzelfde als Ali el B. een materlaar noemen. Amerika kent nog geen draft dus die vent zit daar ook nog eens vrijwillig.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 20:58 schreef Strolie75 het volgende:

links

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 21:01 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

Ok zit je op dat niveau. Doe ik niet aan mee.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 21:03 schreef Strolie75 het volgende:
Overigens vind ik dat ze door naiviteit die o.a. blijkt uit uitspraken als "Wij zijn anti-imperialisten, anti-kapitalisten, communisten. De Irakezen ontvoeren alleen maar de hulpjes van de Amerikanen, de vijanden van de Amerikanen hebben niets te vrezen," zichzelf in die positie heeft gebracht. Als je de terroristen maar genoeg naar de mond praat doen ze je vast niks. Tuurlijk Wat dat betreft heeft ze wat mij betreft dus meer schuld aan de dood van die agent dat die Amerikaanse militair.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 21:07 schreef Lonewolf2003 het volgende:
Daar ben ik het dan weer niet mee eens. Je kan iemand die met wat voor foute, naieve, verkeerde gedachte natuurlijk niet de schuld geven van de daden van enkele Irakezen, die haar ontvoeren.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 21:03 schreef Strolie75 het volgende:
Wat dat betreft heeft ze wat mij betreft dus meer schuld aan de dood van die agent dat die Amerikaanse militair.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 21:25 schreef SaintOfKillers het volgende:
Bij negatief nieuws plots de oh zo geprezen verantwoordelijkheid gaan afwentelen is triest.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 21:31 schreef Strolie75 het volgende:

[..]

Ze ontkennen het toch niet? Ik trouwens ook niet. Ik zeg alleen dat het een ongeluk was en geen kapitalistisch complot.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 21:59 schreef SaintOfKillers het volgende:

[..]

Mja... een ongeluk. Dat volgens vele Amerikanen toch vooral te wijten is aan onverantwoord gedrag aan Italiaanse zijde, niet aan Amerikaanse zijde. En waarbij de personen die een onschuldige veiligheidsagent neerschieten bijna een slachtofferrol krijgen toebedeeld. Het lijk was nog niet koud of operatie "bash de slachtoffers" draaide al op volle toeren. En dit is ook niet de eerste keer dat dit gebeurt.

quote:

(..)speaking to reporters at a hospital where she is recovering, Sgrena toned down her comments.

"You could characterize something as an ambush when you are showered with gunfire. If this happened because of a lack of information or deliberately, I don't know. But even if it was due to a lack of information, it is unacceptable," she said. (..)

quote:

Een eenvoudig "Sorry, we fucked up" krijgen ze gewoon nauwelijks uit hun bek.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 21:59 schreef SaintOfKillers het volgende:

[..]

Mja... een ongeluk. Dat volgens vele Amerikanen toch vooral te wijten is aan onverantwoord gedrag aan Italiaanse zijde, niet aan Amerikaanse zijde. En waarbij de personen die een onschuldige veiligheidsagent neerschieten bijna een slachtofferrol krijgen toebedeeld. Het lijk was nog niet koud of operatie "bash de slachtoffers" draaide al op volle toeren. En dit is ook niet de eerste keer dat dit gebeurt.

Een eenvoudig "Sorry, we fucked up" krijgen ze gewoon nauwelijks uit hun bek.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 22:26 schreef ultra_ivo het volgende:
Ik zie dat er grote korting op de oogkleppen was in het prijzencircus

quote:

Italy's Ransom
WSJ - March 9, 2005; Page A20

Americans join Italians in mourning the death of Italian secret service officer Nicola Calipari, whose funeral was held in Rome on Monday. Agent Calipari died a hero last Friday, reportedly using his body to shield freed journalist/hostage Giuliana Sgrena from gunfire as their car approached American troops near Baghdad Airport. So perhaps Ms. Sgrena will also shed a tear for the Americans and Iraqis who will die because of the ransom that was paid for her release.

So far, all the world's moral anger has focused on the claim that U.S. soldiers were reckless, or even tried to "assassinate" her, as Ms. Sgrena's newspaper, the communist Il Manifesto, put it. But her claims in some interviews that her car was moving slowly and cautiously are contradicted by, well, Ms. Sgrena.

Her own account of the fateful journey, published Sunday, has them traveling so fast they were "losing control" and laughing about what an irony it would be if they had an accident after all that had happened. In other words, they probably looked like a suicide car bomber to a scared American solider who had to make a split-second decision at night. (The military declines to give figures on car bombs specifically for operational security reasons. But "explosive devices" of various kinds are by far the leading killers in Iraq, accounting for close to half of all deaths from hostile fire, and nearly twice as many as gunshot wounds.)

Arguably far more reckless was Italy's decision to pay ransom -- reportedly of $6 million or more -- to secure her release. Italy is also believed to have paid ransom for the release of two aid workers taken captive last year. The Italians know the U.S. opposes the policy, which may be why Ms. Sgrena's transfer to the airport was not sufficiently coordinated with U.S. forces.

Not only does paying ransom encourage more kidnapping -- of Italians especially -- it also puts money in the hands of the enemy in a country where $40 buys an automatic rifle and $200 an attack on U.S. forces. The shooting of a speeding car at a military checkpoint in a war zone is an unintentional tragedy, but the paying of ransom amounts to a policy of deliberately aiding terrorists.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 22:30 schreef zoalshetis het volgende:

[..]

ik krijg elke terechte sorry uit mijn bek. maar dit zaakje stinkt en ik zou als voorstander van dit zeer discutabele voorval (lees anti-amerikaans) niet meteen al je kolen in het vuur doen. wacht nou maar rustig af, dan valt er zo nog genoeg te bashen.

quote:

Italy disputes US hostage account

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has said the car carrying an Italian agent killed by US fire had stopped as soon as it was signalled.
His statement contradicts US accounts of the incident in Iraq in which Nicola Calipari was shot taking freed hostage Giuliana Sgrena to Baghdad airport.

Mr Berlusconi said the US must accept responsibility to restore relations.

He said his government had demanded "maximum co-operation" from the US, and a joint inquiry had been promised.

The US military in Iraq has begun an investigation led by Brig Gen Peter Vangjel into Friday's shooting. It is expected to take up to four weeks to complete.

Relations between the US and Italy have been strained by the incident.

Speaking to the Italian Senate, Mr Berlusconi said: "Only a frank and reciprocal recognition of eventual responsibility is the condition for closure of the incident, which was so irrational and caused so much sorrow."

The prime minister said the US military had authorised the Italian journey to the airport.

An agent travelling in the car with Mr Calipari had given an account of events which conflicted with the version given by the US military, he added.

"A light was flashed at the vehicle from 10m away," Mr Berlusconi said. "The driver at this point stopped the car immediately and at the same time there was gunfire for about 10 or 15 seconds.

"A few shots reached the vehicle and another one reached and killed Mr Calipari," he said.

'Painful' truth

"This reconstruction of events has been made according to what has been witnessed by another agent who was with Mr Calipari and does not coincide totally with what has been communicated so far by the US authorities."

The US says the vehicle carrying Ms Sgrena to the airport was "travelling at high speeds" and "refused to stop at a checkpoint". Soldiers fired at the engine when the driver failed to stop after several warnings, military officials said.

Mr Berlusconi said he had spoken to US President George W Bush, who had promised to co-operate in finding out who was responsible.

He said the idea that Mr Calipari had been killed by friendly fire was "painful" but added he was certain the US "has no intention of evading the truth".

"I'm sure that in a very short time every aspect of this will be clarified," he said.

"Our friendship with the US is strong and loyal, and we have the duty to demand from them the utmost truth."

Mr Calipari has become a national hero and Italy's leaders joined hundreds of fellow citizens at his funeral.

quote:

Iraq shooting: Differing accounts

Italian secret agent Nicola Calipari was killed when US troops opened fire as he escorted freed journalist Giuliana Sgrena to Baghdad airport. He had just helped to secure her release after more than a month held hostage in Iraq. The US, the Italian government and Ms Sgrena have differing accounts of what happened.

US MILITARY
The US military says the car carrying Mr Calipari was speeding as it approached a coalition checkpoint in western Baghdad at 2055 (1755 GMT) on Friday.

Soldiers used "hand and arm signals, flashing white lights and firing warning shots" to get the driver to stop.

When the car did not stop, soldiers shot into its engine block.

US Lt Col Clifford Kent of the 3rd Infantry Division in Baghdad said the checkpoint where the shooting happened was a temporary set-up.

According to the Associated Press news agency, when asked how easy it would be to see US troops at the checkpoint at night, he said: "Depending on where it is, that could be difficult."

He added: "But if you're seeing soldiers in military uniform with military equipment, if you know it's a dangerous area, then... you need to maintain your awareness.

"The event was very tragic, and my condolences go out to those killed and injured."

Senior White House official Dan Bartlett called it "a horrific accident" and pledged a full investigation.

"As you know, in a situation where there is a live combat zone, particularly this road to the airport has been a notorious area for car bombs," he told CNN's Late Edition on Sunday.

"People are making split-second decisions and it's critically important that we get the facts before we make judgements."


ITALIAN GOVERNMENT
Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi says an Italian agent who was in the car with Mr Calipari has given his version of events.

"A light was flashed at the vehicle from 10m away," Mr Berlusconi said. "The driver at this point stopped the car immediately and at the same time there was gunfire for about 10 or 15 seconds.

"A few shots reached the vehicle - one killed Mr Calipari and another bullet injured Ms Sgrena in the shoulder."

The prime minister went on: "This reconstruction of events has been made according to what has been witnessed by another agent who was with Mr Calipari and does not coincide totally with what has been communicated so far by the US authorities."

Italy had made all necessary contacts for safe passage, advising the US military at the airport as Sgrena was en route, Mr Berlusconi said.

His statement contradicted preliminary accounts from the US military that it had no knowledge of the rescue mission.

Mr Berlusconi said Italy, as an ally of the US, had "the duty to demand from them the utmost truth" about what happened. A joint inquiry will be held.


GIULIANA SGRENA
She wrote in her newspaper, Il Manifesto:

"The driver twice called the embassy and Italy to say that we were heading towards the airport that I knew was heavily patrolled by US troops.

They told me that we were less than a kilometre away... when... I only remember fire.

At that point, a rain of fire and bullets hit us, silencing forever the cheerful voices of a few minutes earlier.

The driver started yelling that we were Italians. "We are Italians, we are Italians."

Nicola Calipari threw himself on me to protect me and immediately, I repeat, immediately I heard his last breath as he was dying on me.

I must have felt physical pain. I didn't know why.

But then it came to me in a flash, and my mind went immediately to the things the captors had told me.

They declared that they felt fully committed to freeing me but I had to be careful, 'Out there are the Americans, who don't want you to go back'.

Then, I had considered those words superfluous and ideological. But at that moment, they risked acquiring the flavour of the bitterest of truths. At this time I cannot tell you the rest."

"There was no bright light, no signal," she told Italian La 7 TV in response to a US military account.

"We were driving slowly, about 40-50 km/h (25-30mph)," the driver, an unidentified Italian agent, said according to Italy's Corriere della Sera.

Ms Sgrena's editor, Gabriele Polo, said he was told by Italian officials that 300 to 400 rounds were fired at the car.

quote:

U.S. 'knew agent going to airport'
Wednesday, March 9, 2005 Posted: 1657 GMT (0057 HKT)

ROME, Italy (CNN) -- Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi says the intelligence agent shot dead by the U.S. military told them he would be escorting a newly released hostage to the airport -- contrary to U.S. claims.

Another Italian attache, who was at the Baghdad airport, also told U.S. military personnel the car carrying agent Nicola Calipari and journalist Giuliana Sgrena was on its way to the airport March 4 before the shooting occurred, Berlusconi told the Italian senate on Wednesday.

Differing accounts have emerged about Friday's shooting at a checkpoint on the road to the Baghdad airport, in which Calipari was shot and killed and Sgrena was wounded in the shoulder.

The U.S. military has said the car the two were in rapidly approached a checkpoint and ignored repeated warnings to stop.

On Tuesday, the top U.S. general in Iraq, Army Gen. George Casey, said he had no indication that Italian officials gave advance notice of the route the car was traveling.

Troops used arm signals and flashing white lights, fired warning shots in front of the car, and shot into the engine block when the driver did not stop, a U.S. military news release said.

Berlusconi said that according to information from the person driving the car, the vehicle was traveling at a low speed and braked very swiftly when a light shone on it.

In an article published Sunday in her communist newspaper, Il Manifesto, Sgrena wrote, "Our car was driving slowly," and "the Americans fired without motive."

In a letter received by Italian President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi Wednesday, U.S. President George Bush promised a "fast and exhaustive" investigation into the shooting.

Berlusconi, who has taken heat in his country for his staunch support of Bush and the war in Iraq, said Italian officials would take part in the probe.

"The death of Calipari is so difficult for us to accept because it comes from an ally," he told the senate.

But the investigation and the letter from Bush "demonstrates that our allies want to find out the truth," he added.

On Tuesday, U.S. forces in Iraq announced the establishment of a team to investigate the incident.

Brig. Gen. Peter Vangjel was named to head the follow-up probe, expected to take three to four weeks. The investigators plan to "work closely with the U.S. Embassy and Italian officials have been invited to participate."

'Rain of fire'
Sgrena, an anti-war journalist, had just been freed by kidnappers after a month in captivity and was being escorted by Italian security agents to safety.

Calipari threw his body across Sgrena when U.S. troops opened fire, she said.

In her article published Sunday Sgrena described a "rain of fire and bullets" in the incident. (Ex-hostage disputes U.S. account)

CNN's Rome Bureau Chief Alessio Vinci said Sgrena was not ruling out the possibility that the Americans may have targeted her on purpose because the U.S. opposed negotiating with kidnappers.

The White House on Monday rejected the suggestion, as did Italy's foreign minister.

"I think it's absurd to make any such suggestion that our men and women in uniform deliberately targeted innocent civilians. That's just absurd," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Monday. (Full story)

Italian media suggest a ransom was paid for her release, but government officials are not commenting on the reports. The Italian government has paid ransoms to free other hostages in the past.

An autopsy found Calipari was killed by a single shot to the head and died instantly. A state funeral was held for him on Monday. (Profile)

Berlusconi reminded members of the senate the shooting never would have happened if there had been no kidnapping, and said there had been more than 195 kidnappings in Iraq of people from several countries.

"The logic of the kidnappers is to sow fear amongst the people with the illusion that these feelings will ensure that the international community will abandon Iraq to the hands of the kidnappers," the prime minister said.

Berlusconi said Italy has rejected the political blackmail of the kidnappers, who have demanded that all Italian troops leave the country, and warned Italians not with the military to leave Iraq because of the dangers.

There are close to 3,000 Italian troops in Iraq.

Several other Italians have been abducted in Iraq, including two women who worked for a humanitarian organization in Baghdad -- an abduction that gripped the nation until their safe release in late September.

In addition, an Iraqi man who had lived in Italy since 1980, but had returned to Iraq to work, was killed in early October by his captives.

CNN's Alessio Vinci and Elise Labott contributed to this report.

quote:

Op zaterdag 5 maart 2005 00:19 schreef Murray het volgende:

[..]

Bij bevrijder denk ik aan Rambo,, niet aan iemand die haar naar het vliegveld rijdt.

quote:

Op woensdag 9 maart 2005 20:58 schreef Strolie75 het volgende:

[..]

Het was toch haar schouder? Heeft heeft die kogel zijn om geheimzinnige manier verplaatst zodat dat sekreet nog zieliger lijkt?

quote:

Op donderdag 10 maart 2005 10:17 schreef Chadi het volgende:
Wat zit er achter je schouderblad? je blaas?

quote:

Op donderdag 10 maart 2005 10:20 schreef Strolie75 het volgende:
Ik ben geen chirurg, maar volgens mij zitten je longen niet achter je schouderbladen.

quote:

Op donderdag 10 maart 2005 10:20 schreef Strolie75 het volgende:

[..]

Ik ben geen chirurg, maar volgens mij zitten je longen niet achter je schouderbladen.

quote:

Op donderdag 10 maart 2005 11:05 schreef sp3c het volgende:


met een gat in de longen ga je 9 van de 10 keer dood