[centraal] Irak na de oorlog deel 27

quote:

Facing Realities in Iraq
December 30, 2004 1840 GMT

By George Friedman

On May 17, 2004, Stratfor published a piece entitled "Iraq: New Strategies."In a rare moment of advocacy
(http://www.stratfor.biz/Story.neo?storyId=232011 ), we argued that the war in Iraq had evolved to a point where the United States was unlikely to be able to suppress the insurgency.

We argued then that, "The United States must begin by recognizing that it cannot possibly pacify Iraq with the force available or, for that matter, with a larger military force. It can continue to patrol, it can continue to question people, it can continue to take casualties. However, it can never permanently defeat the guerrilla forces in the Sunni triangle using this strategy. It certainly cannot displace the power and authority of the Shiite leadership in the south. Urban warfare and counterinsurgency in the Iraqi environment cannot be successful."

We did not and do not agree with the view that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. It had a clear strategic purpose that it achieved: reshaping the behavior of surrounding regimes, particularly of the Saudis. This helped disrupt the al Qaeda network sufficiently that it has been unable to mount follow-on attacks in the United States and has shifted its attention to the Islamic world, primarily to the Saudis. None of this would have happened without the invasion of Iraq.

As frequently happens in warfare, the primary strategic purpose of the war has been forgotten by the Bush administration. Mission creep, the nightmare of all military planners, has taken place. The United States has shifted its focus from coercing neighboring countries into collaborating with the United States against al Qaeda, to building democracy in Iraq. As we put it in May:

"The United States must recall its original mission, which was to occupy Iraq in order to prosecute the war against al Qaeda. If that mission is remembered, and the mission creep of reshaping Iraq forgotten, some obvious strategic solutions re-emerge. The first, and most important, is that the United States has no national interest in the nature of Iraqi government or society. Except for not supporting al Qaeda, Iraq's government does not matter."

Most comparisons of Iraq to Vietnam are superficial and some are absurd, but one lesson is entirely relevant to Iraq. In Vietnam, the United States attempted to simultaneously re-engineer Vietnamese society and wage a counterinsurgency campaign. That proved impossible. The United States is attempting to do precisely that again in Iraq. It will fail again for the same reason: The goals are inherently contradictory.

Creating democracy in Iraq requires that democratic institutions be created. That is an abstract, bloodless way of putting it. The reality is that Iraqis must be recruited to serve in these institutions, from the army and police to social services. Obviously, these people become targets for the guerrillas and the level of intimidation is massive. These officials -- caught between the power of U.S. forces and the guerrillas -- are hardly in a position to engage in nation building. They are happy to survive, if they choose to remain at their posts.

Even this is not the central problem. In order to build these institutions, Iraqis will have to be recruited. It is impossible to distinguish between Iraqis committed to the American project, Iraqis who are opportunists and Iraqis who are jihadists sent by guerrilla intelligence services to penetrate the new institutions. Corruption aside, every one of the institutions is full of jihadist agents, who are there to spy and disrupt.

This has a direct military consequence. The goal of the Untied States in Vietnam was, and now in Iraq is, to shift the war-fighting burden -- in this case from U.S. forces to the Iraqis. This can never happen. The Iraqi army, like the Army of the Republic of Vietnam, is filled with guerrilla operatives. If the United States mounts joint operations with the Iraqis, the guerrillas will know about it during the planning stages. If the United States fights alone, it will be more effective, but the Iraqi army will never develop. For the United States, it is a question of heads you win, tails I lose.

The United States cannot win the intelligence war on the ground level. Its operations to penetrate the guerrillas depend on Iraqis working with the United States and these operations will be quickly compromised. The guerrillas on the other hand cannot be rooted out of the Iraqi military and intelligence organs because they cannot be distinguished from other Iraqis. Some will be captured. Many might be captured. But all of them cannot be captured and therefore no effective allied force can be created in Iraq. This was the center of gravity of the problem in Vietnam, the problem that destroyed Vietnamization. It is the center of gravity of the problem in Iraq.

Missed Opportunities

There were two points where the problem could have been solved. Had the United States acted vigorously in May and June 2003, there is a chance that the guerrilla force would have been so disrupted it could never have been born. U.S. intelligence, however, failed to recognize the guerrilla threat and Donald Rumsfeld in particular was slow to react. By the summer of 2003, the situation was out of hand.

There was a second point where effective action might have been fruitful, which was in the period after the Ramadan offensive of October-November 2003, when Saddam Hussein was captured, and the beginning of the April 2004 offensives in Al Fallujah and the Muqtada al-Sadr rising. Those four months were wasted in diffused action in several areas, rather than in a concerted effort to turn Sunni elders against the guerrillas.

It is interesting to note that the attempt to break the Sunni guerrillas in a systematic way did not begin until November 2004, with the attack against Al Fallujah and an attempt to co-opt the Sunni elders. For a while it looked like it might just work. It didn't. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's jihadists had become too strong and too well organized. Whatever inroads were made among the Sunni elders was blocked by al-Zarqawi's ability to carry out reprisals. The Sunnis were locked into place.

The U.S. military is now carrying out an impossible mission. It is trying to suppress a well-organized guerrilla force using primarily U.S. troops whose intelligence about the enemy is severely limited by language and cultural barriers that cannot be solved by recruiting Iraqis to serve as intelligence aides. The United States either operates blind or compromises its security.

Unless the Iraqi guerrillas are not only throwing all of their strength into this offensive, but also using up their strength in a non-renewable fashion, the Jan. 30 elections will not be the end of the guerrilla war. There will be a lull in guerrilla operations -- guerrillas have to rest, recruit and resupply like anyone else -- but after a few months, another offensive will be launched. There is, therefore, no possibility that the Sunni guerrilla movement will be suppressed unless there is a dramatic change in the political landscape of the Sunni community.

There is one bit of good fortune that arises out of another of Rumsfeld's failures. His failure to listen to Gen. Erik Shinseki's warnings about the size of the force that would be needed in Iraq after the war meant that the U.S. force structure was never expanded appropriately. In most instances, this is a terrible failing. However, in this case, it has an unexpectedly positive consequence. We do not doubt for a moment that Rumsfeld would throw in more forces if he had them. They would not solve the problem in any way and would add additional targets for the guerrillas. But Rumsfeld doesn't have the needed forces, so he can't send them in.

Facing the Facts

The issue facing the Bush administration is simple. It can continue to fight the war as it has, hoping that a miracle will bring successes in 2005 that didn't happen in 2004. Alternatively, it can accept the reality that the guerrilla force is now self-sustaining and sufficiently large not to flicker out and face the fact that a U.S. conventional force of less than 150,000 is not likely to suppress the guerrillas. More to the point, it can recognize these facts:

1. The United States cannot re-engineer Iraq because the guerrillas will infiltrate every institution it creates.

2. That the United States by itself lacks the intelligence capabilities to fight an effective counterinsurgency.

3. That exposing U.S. forces to security responsibilities in this environment generates casualties without bringing the United States closer to the goal.

4. That the strain on the U.S. force is undermining its ability to react to opportunities and threats in the rest of the region.

And that, therefore, this phase of the Iraq campaign must be halted as soon as possible.

This does not mean strategic defeat -- unless the strategic goal is the current inflated one of creating a democratic Iraq. Under the original strategic goal of changing the behavior of other countries in the region, the United States has already obtained strategic success. Indeed, to the extent that the United States is being drained and exhausted in Iraq, the strategic goal is actually being undermined.

We assert two principles:

1. The internal governance -- or non-governance -- of Iraq is neither a fundamental American national interest nor is it something that can be shaped by the United States even if it were a national interest.

2. The United States does require a major presence in Iraq because of that country's strategic position in the region.

It is altogether possible for the United States to accept the first principle yet pursue the second. The geography of Iraq -- the distribution of the population -- is such that the United States can maintain a major presence in Iraq without, for the most part, being based in the populated regions and therefore without being responsible for the security of Iraq -- let alone responsible its form of government.

The withdrawal of U.S. forces west and south of the Euphrates and in an arc north to the Turkish border and into Kurdistan would provide the United States with the same leverage in the region, without the unsustainable cost of the guerrilla war. The Saudis, Syrians and Iranians would still have U.S. forces on their borders, this time not diluted by a hopeless pacification program.

Something like this will have to happen. After the January elections, there will be a Shiite government in Baghdad. There will be, in all likelihood, civil war between Sunnis and Shia. The United States cannot stop it and cannot be trapped in the middle of it. It needs to withdraw.


Certainly, it would have been nice for the United States if it had been able to dominate Iraq thoroughly. Somewhere between "the U.S. blew it" and "there was never a chance" that possibility is gone. It would have been nice if the United States had never tried to control the situation, because now the U.S. is going to have to accept a defeat, which will destabilize the region psychologically for a while. But what is is, and the facts speak for themselves.

We are not Walter Cronkite, and we are not saying that the war is lost. The war is with the jihadists around the world; Iraq was just one campaign, and the occupation of the Sunnis was just one phase of that campaign. That phase has been lost. The administration has allowed that phase to become the war as a whole in the public mind. That was a very bad move, but the administration is just going to have to bite the bullet and do the hard, painful and embarrassing work of cutting losses and getting on with the war.

If Bush has trouble doing this, he should conjure up Lyndon Johnson's ghost, wandering restlessly in the White House, and imagine how Johnson would have been remembered if he had told Robert McNamara to get lost in 1966.

quote:

suicide car bomb has exploded near the party offices of Iraqi interim PM Iyad Allawi, killing two policemen and a civilian, officials said. At least 20 other Iraqis were injured in Monday morning's blast in Baghdad. US Secretary of State Colin Powell warned on Sunday of more violence ahead of elections set for 30 January. The attack comes a week after top Shia politician Abdel Aziz al-Hakim was unhurt in a blast that killed 13 people at his party's offices in the capital.

Monday's explosion occurred when the car bomber tried to ram through a police checkpoint on the road leading to the offices of Mr Allawi's party, the Iraqi National Accord. The vehicle exploded, shaking most of Baghdad and sending a column of smoke over the area.

Several police vehicles were wrecked in the blast. The National Accord's offices, located inside the heavily fortified Green Zone several hundred metres away, were not damaged. Mr Allawi is not believed to have been in the building at the time.

Insurgents have intensified attacks against Iraqi and US forces, as part of their efforts to disrupt the elections to a constitutional assembly. On Sunday, at least 23 people were killed in a suicide bomb attack on a bus carrying Iraqi soldiers north of Baghdad. Three Iraqi insurgent groups have told Iraqis not to vote in the election. And Iraq's main Sunni political grouping, the Iraqi Islamic Party, has already called for a boycott of the elections because it argues that the violence in central and northern Iraq makes a free and fair vote impossible.

quote:

Gouverneur van Bagdad doodgeschoten
Uitgegeven op 04 januari 2005 om 08:55 uur

De gouverneur van Bagdad, Ali al-Haidari, is dinsdag doodgeschoten in zijn auto in de noordelijke wijk Hurriyah. Dat heeft de politie bekendgemaakt. Verdere bijzonderheden ontbreken nog.

Al-Haidari, die als gouverneur aan het hoofd stond van de provincie waar de Iraakse hoofdstad deel van uitmaakt, was vorig jaar al eens het doelwit van een poging tot moordaanslag.

quote:

The head of the Iraqi intelligence service has estimated that there are more than 200,000 active fighters and sympathisers in the war-torn country.

Service director General Muhammad Abd Allah Shahwani told journalists on Monday that his assessment included 40,000 fulltime fighters and about 200,000 Iraqis involved part-time.

He added that part-timers were also likely to be providing everything from intelligence to logistics and shelter.

"I think the resistance is bigger than the US military in Iraq. I think the resistance is more than 200,000 people," he added.

quote:

On a day when insurgents killed at least 16 people in an effort to disrupt Iraq's elections, a prominent cabinet minister suggested the Jan. 30 vote be postponed.

Defence Minister Hazem Shaalan suggested that if Iraq's Sunni Muslim minority agreed to take part in the elections, the vote could be delayed to allow them time to prepare.

quote:

737 tt-TV1 737 di 04 jan 13:01:19

NIEUWS
­­­­­­­­­­­­

HOOFDDOEK RUKT OP IN IRAK

Meer en meer Iraakse vrouwen nemen hun
toevlucht tot het dragen van een hoofd-
doek. Zodoende hopen ze te ontkomen aan
aanvallen van moslimfundamentalisten.

De hoofddoek-golf heeft ook te maken
met een subjectief onveiligheidsgevoel.
Sinds de Amerikaanse invasie voelen
vrouwen, zowel christenen als moslims,
zich veel onveiliger.

Door het dragen van de hoofddoek willen
de vrouwen zich symbolisch terugtrekken
in hun eigen beschermende cocon.

quote:

160 tt-TV1 160 di 04 jan 14:15:55
buitenland ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­

GOUVERNEUR VAN BAGDAD IS VERMOORD
­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­
In Bagdad is de gouverneur doodgescho-
ten. De aanslag is intussen opgeëist
door de extremistische groep rond
rebellenleider Al Zarkawi.

Dinsdagochtend werd Al Haidari aange-
vallen toen hij in zijn auto zat. Er
ontstond een vuurgevecht tussen zijn
lijfwachten en de belagers.

Gouverneur Al Haidari was het hoofd van
het bestuur in de regio van Bagdad.

In Irak zijn mensen die collaboreren
met de VS al maanden een doelwit voor
rebellen. Vorige maand werd er al een
aanslag gepleegd op de gouverneur. Al
Haidari had maandag de veigheidssitua-
tie in Bagdad nog "perfect" genoemd.

quote:

Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi, whom the US occupation authorities declared to be the "target number one" in Iraq, has been arrested in the city of Baakuba, the Emirate newspaper al-Bayane reported on Tuesday referring to Kurdish sources.

Al-Zarqawi, leader of the terrorist group Al-Tawhid Wa'al-Jihad, was recently appointed the director of the Al-Qaeda organisation in Iraq.

The newspaper's correspondent in Baghdad points out that a report on the seizure of the terrorist, on whom the US put a bounty of US$10 million, was also reported by Iraqi Kurdistan radio, which at one time had been the first to announce the arrest of Saddam Hussein.

quote:

127 Teletekst di 04 jan
***************************************
Meer adviseurs VS in Iraaks leger

***************************************
WASHINGTON De Amerikaanse regering
overweegt nog eens honderden militaire
adviseurs aan te stellen in het Iraakse
leger.Bevelhebber Casey in Irak heeft
dat volgens de New York Times aan het
ministerie van Defensie voorgesteld.

De prestaties van het Iraakse leger
blijven nog steeds onder de Amerikaanse
verwachtingen.De leiding functioneert
slecht en steeds meer Iraakse soldaten
deserteren.

Zeker honderd Amerikaanse officieren
zijn al opgenomen in het Iraakse leger.
Casey wil dat aantal verhogen met het
oog op de verkiezingen die voor eind
januari gepland staan.
***************************************

quote:

Gunmen Kill Official of Iraq's Main Sunni Party
Wed Jan 5, 4:05 AM ET World - Reuters

BAGHDAD - Gunmen have killed a senior official of Iraq's main Sunni Muslim party, which last month withdrew from the Jan. 30 election race it wants postponed, the Iraqi Islamic Party said Wednesday. Omar Mahmoud Abdallah, a cleric who has written a number of books on Islam, was snatched from his pharmacy in the northern city of Mosul and killed Tuesday. "The Iraqi Islamic Party condemns this crime," it said in a statement.

An Iraqi Islamic Party official said Abdullah was shot in the head after he was kidnapped Tuesday.
Insurgents have targeted mostly election officials and politicians in a bid to undermine the polls. The violence has prompted calls for a delay in the election. The Iraqi Islamic Party pulled out of the January poll fearing persistent bloodshed would deter Iraqis in the Sunni north and west from casting their ballots, skewing the outcome and undermining its credibility. Iraq's 60-percent Shi'ite majority, oppressed under Saddam Hussein, is keen that elections expected to cement their increased political power, take place on time.

Election preparations in Mosul are behind schedule and there are no signs of campaigning on the streets. The city, Iraq's third largest, has been sliding into chaos over the past year. Insurgents have overrun police stations and chased away police who have yet to return. Many residents of Mosul say they are too scared to vote in a city where militants have pasted posters in mosques warning people against taking part. While the Iraqi Islamic Party has withdrawn from the January poll, it remains a firm supporter of the transition to democracy in Iraq.

The Iraqi Islamic Party was represented on the defunct Governing Council appointed by Washington immediately after the war and has members in the National Council set up in August.
But the party later withdrew a minister from Iraq's interim government to protest against U.S.-led attacks on Sunni cities aimed at crushing an insurgency that has raged there for months.

quote:

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military announced Wednesday that more than 35,000 American troops will be deployed on the streets of Baghdad on January 30, the date of Iraq's first democratic elections. "We will be out in force," said Maj. Gen. Peter Chiarelli of the U.S. Army's Task Force Baghdad.

As daily insurgent attacks continue in the region, U.S. troops will be coordinating with Iraqi security forces to protect the 7 million residents of Baghdad as they go to the polls, Chiarelli said. "The Iraqis will provide security, operate polling stations, count ballots and announce results," Chiarelli. "The [multinational forces are] not involved in the election process. With additional security forces in place in Baghdad, we stand ready to assist with security matters as determined by the Iraqi government." Chiarelli also had a message for insurgents who would attempt to disrupt elections."We will find you, we will watch where you move, we will listen to you speaking to each other, we will fight and we will defeat you," he warned. "You cannot sleep, eat, move or meet without the clear understanding that you may be killed or captured at any moment. Cease your operations now and you will be choosing to live." The major general predicted the security situation in Baghdad will improve by the time elections are held, although he said attacks probably will increase leading up to January 30.

quote:

Op vrijdag 7 januari 2005 07:01 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
Made in Taiwan.

US seeks to buy ammunition from Taiwan as stocks run low after Iraq

TAIPEI - The United States is planning to buy hundreds of millions of bullets from Taiwan in the first such deal as its supplies are running low after wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, a report said Thursday.


Citing Taiwanese military sources, the United Evening News said Washington had made the request to acquire some 300 million 5.56-millimeter bullets for rifles for an estimated two billion Taiwan dollars (62.5 million US).

The deal was yet to be finalized pending price negotiations, it said.

bron

-------------------------

Eén "cakewalk" oorlog en Amerika is running low on ammo?

Als ik Bush was zou ik nog meer outsourcen. Moeten de soldaten binnenkort hun uitrusting zelf eerst in elkaar papier-mache'en.

_{Taiwan kan die ammo beter even bewaren, maar dat terzijde}

quote:

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - The bodies of 18 young Iraqi Shiites taken off a bus and executed last month while seeking work at a U.S. base have been found in a field near the volatile city of Mosul, police said Thursday. Police said the insurgents shot the men, who ranged in age from 14 to 20, on Dec. 8 after stopping their two mini-buses about 30 miles west of Mosul. Their hands were tied behind their back and each was shot in the head, police said. All of the men were Shiite Muslims from Baghdad's northern neighborhood of Kadhimiya who had been hired by an Iraqi contractor to work at a U.S. base in Mosul.

The bodies were discovered Wednesday, the same day a suicide attacker blew up an explosives-laden car outside a police academy south of Baghdad in Hillah during a graduation ceremony, killing 20 people. A second car bomber killed five Iraqi policemen in Baqouba - bringing the death toll to at least 90 so far this week in surging violence aimed at derailing this month's elections. In a separate execution-style incident, the bodies of three Jordanian truck drivers shot in the head were discovered on the outskirts of Ramadi, 70 miles west of Baghdad, an AP photographer at the scene said Thursday. "This is the fate of anyone who cooperates with the Americans," said a note placed on one of the bodies.

quote:

Seven US soldiers have been killed in a bomb attack by insurgents in Baghdad.
The US military said their Bradley armoured vehicle hit a roadside bomb in the north-west of the Iraqi capital on Thursday evening. In a separate incident, the military reported that a marine had been killed in Anbar province, west of Baghdad.

The attacks come as Iraq's authorities say the state of emergency which gives them special powers to fight rebels is being extended for another month. The seven US soldiers were on a routine security patrol in their vehicle when the explosion occurred at 1800 local time (1500 GMT), said US military spokeswoman Captain Patricia Brewer. "All of the occupants were killed," she said.

quote:

Op vrijdag 7 januari 2005 07:01 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
Made in Taiwan.

US seeks to buy ammunition from Taiwan as stocks run low after Iraq

TAIPEI - The United States is planning to buy hundreds of millions of bullets from Taiwan in the first such deal as its supplies are running low after wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, a report said Thursday.


Citing Taiwanese military sources, the United Evening News said Washington had made the request to acquire some 300 million 5.56-millimeter bullets for rifles for an estimated two billion Taiwan dollars (62.5 million US).

The deal was yet to be finalized pending price negotiations, it said.

bron

-------------------------

Eén "cakewalk" oorlog en Amerika is running low on ammo?

Als ik Bush was zou ik nog meer outsourcen. Moeten de soldaten binnenkort hun uitrusting zelf eerst in elkaar papier-mache'en.

_{Taiwan kan die ammo beter even bewaren, maar dat terzijde}

quote:

‘The Salvador Option’
The Pentagon may put Special-Forces-led assassination or kidnapping teams in Iraq

.....

quote:

Op zondag 9 januari 2005 06:01 schreef HarigeKerel het volgende:

[..]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek/

Het is wel erg veel tekst dus vandaar alleen een linkje.

quote:

Het blad Newsweek meldt dat er binnen het Amerikaanse ministerie van Defensie wordt nagedacht over de inzet van zogenaamde doodseskaders in Irak. Speciale eenheden zouden Iraakse eskaders moeten opleiden die vervolgens de leiders van opstandelingen moeten uitschakelen. De eskaders zullen voornamelijk bestaan uit Koerdische peshmerga-strijders en Sjiitische militieleden.

De Amerikanen in Irak ondervinden momenteel veel weerstand van opstandelingen die alles in het werk stellen om de verkiezingen op 30 januari te verhinderen door dood en verderf te zaaien. De opstandelingen bestaan voornamelijk uit de soennitische aanhangers van het voormalige bewind van Saddam Hussein en extremistische buitenlandse strijders.

De inzet van doodseskaders is voor het Amerikaanse leger niet nieuw. Twintig jaar geleden werd deze tactiek al toegepast in Latijns-Amerika om linkse guerrilla's te doden. Newsweek baseert zich op anonieme bronnen in het Pentagon.

quote:

'VS inzake Guantanamo Bay net nazi's'
Volgens emeritus-hoogleraar strafrecht Frits Rüter van de Universiteit van Amsterdam lijkt de manier waarop de Verenigde Staten gevangenen op Guantanamo Bay behandelt op de wijze waarop het nazi-regime van Adolf Hitler met gedetineerden omsprong. De strafrechtdeskundige noemt het plan van de VS om op Guantanamo Bay 200 permanente cellen te bouwen voor van terrorisme verdachte mensen een flagrante schending van de mensenrechten en een complete uitholling van de rechtsstaat.

Volgens Rüter doet de VS nu precies hetzelfde als de nazi's deden: ''mensen vasthouden zonder recht of titel, er komt geen rechter aan te pas en de politie beslist wanneer je wordt opgesloten en vastgehouden.'' Eerder liet een Amerikaanse overheidsfunctionaris weten dat de meerderheid van de gevangenen die op Guantanamo Bay vast zitten, niet eens meer verhoord worden. Ze blijven echter wel vastzitten, omdat de VS bang is dat ze na hun vrijlating een terroristische bedreiging kunnen gaan vormen.

De regering van de VS heeft meerdere malen aangegeven dat ze de gedetineerden op Guantanamo Bay beschouwen als "vijandige strijders" waarop de conventies van Genève over behandeling van krijgsgevangenen niet - of niet volledig - van toepassing zijn. De meesten zitten dan ook vast zonder aanklacht en de toegang tot advocaten is zeer beperkt.

'Stop uitwijzen naar VS'
Rüter vindt dat minister Piet-Hein Donner van Justitie namens Nederland moet weigeren nog langer verdachten uit te wijzen naar Amerika, ''wegens gebrek aan vertrouwen'' in het Amerikaanse rechtssysteem. Een dergelijk signaal zou volgens hem ''inslaan als een bom". "Je staat te buitengewoon te kijk als iemand roept dat je bent aangeland op het niveau van een criminele dictatuur.''

De uitspraken van Rüter komen uit het Radio 1-programma 'De Andere Wereld', dat vanochtend door de IKON werd uitgezonden.

quote:

Op zondag 9 januari 2005 19:52 schreef HarryP het volgende:
De Amerikanen zijn er toch om Irak te bevrijden van een bewind dat terreur gebruikt tegen zijn eigen volk..??.. (tenminste nadat ze de massavernietigingswapens en terroristische connectie niet hebben kunnen vinden).

quote:

Op zondag 9 januari 2005 19:52 schreef HarryP het volgende:
De Amerikanen zijn er toch om Irak te bevrijden van een bewind dat terreur gebruikt tegen zijn eigen volk..??.. (tenminste nadat ze de massavernietigingswapens en terroristische connectie niet hebben kunnen vinden).

quote:

Op zondag 9 januari 2005 23:21 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

Reden 1. Massavernietigingswapens. (waren er niet)
Reden 2. Saddams banden met Al Queda (waren er niet)
Reden 3. Iraakse volk bevrijden (Saddams regime is vervangen door een militaire bezetting)

quote:

Op zondag 9 januari 2005 23:38 schreef Umm-Qasr het volgende:

[..]

Vraag eens een Irakees om z'n mening en vorm dan je mening ...

quote:

Op zondag 9 januari 2005 23:42 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Volgens een Irakees waren er wel massavernietigingswapens en terroristen? Ik geloof er niets van. Wel geloof ik dat de Irakezen blij waren dat Hoessein weg is. En met name de sji'ieten, terwijl soennieten op het moment een onderdrukking op zich af zien komen.

Wat ben jij eigenlijk, of je familie?

quote:

Op maandag 10 januari 2005 00:21 schreef Umm-Qasr het volgende:
Ik bedoelde daarmee niet eens de WMD of al-Qaida, maar de insinuatie die er vanaf droop. En de sonnieten zien geen onderdrukking op zich afkomen, maar degenen die maar niet willen dat er een representatieve regering komt.

quote:

En ik ben een Irakees ...

quote:

Op maandag 10 januari 2005 00:21 schreef Umm-Qasr het volgende:

[..]

Ik bedoelde daarmee niet eens de WMD of al-Qaida, maar de insinuatie die er vanaf droop. En de sonnieten zien geen onderdrukking op zich afkomen, maar degenen die maar niet willen dat er een representatieve regering komt. En ik ben een Irakees ...

quote:

Op maandag 10 januari 2005 00:26 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Ik denk niet alleen zij, ook vele normale burgers vrezen wel een Taliban-regime, een sji'ietische dictatuur, of deportaties door Koerden.

quote:

Ja, maar in Irak zelf worden de scheidslijnen echter steeds duidelijker.

quote:

Op maandag 10 januari 2005 00:43 schreef Umm-Qasr het volgende:
Bronnen? Al-Sistani, shi'itische leider, heeft nota bene zelf gezegd dat hij geen Iran-model wil.

quote:

Op maandag 10 januari 2005 00:33 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

Welke insinuatie dan? Er is feitelijk toch sprake van een militaire bezetting? Er worden toch permanente bases aangelegt (waarmee de VS aangeeft ook op langere termijn controle over Irak te willen houden).

Ik weet niet aan welke Irakees ik iets zou moeten vragen maar wat ik wel zie is dat het land in puin ligt en er 100.000+ doden zijn gevallen. Het is één grote ellende.

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Je ziet niemand zeggen "Zie je wel" tegen al die vooraf beweerden dat het allemaal pais en vree zou worden en de VS niets dan goeds zou brengen. Maar om nu nog verontwaardigd te reageren op mijn zeer lichte onderstreping van de kritiek op deze hele oorlog maakt het wel verleidelijk om eens voluit te gaan en eens de kant te belichten die we nog steeds nauwelijks zien op onze gefilterde tv schermen.

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Irak is een fiasco en een schandaal voor ons zogenaamde 'beschaafde' westen. Met onze mooie praatjes hebben we ze niks anders dan dood, verderf en destructie gebracht en nog zijn er mensen die durven beweren dat we met een goede zaak bezig zijn. Ongelooflijk.

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Op maandag 10 januari 2005 00:51 schreef Umm-Qasr het volgende:

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Jij ziet dat! Dat is verdomde knap voor iemand die daar nooit is geweest en alleen van ontploffingen, aanslagen en onthoofdingen wordt bericht door de media ...

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Maar had dat dan ook verwacht, van totale dictatuur naar ultieme vrijheid en democratie?!

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Tuurlijk zijn er vele fouten gemaakt maar om t nu een fiasco te noemen is een groot woord. Blijkbaar kunnen westerlingen het gewoon niet bevatten hoe verschrikkelijk t was om onder saddam te leven. Max van der Stoel noemde dat regime hetzelfde als die van Hitler. De onthoofdingen, aanslagen, afrekeningen en ontvoeringen die nu daar voorkomen, waren vroeger aan de orde van de dag, beleid van saddam ...

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Op maandag 10 januari 2005 01:05 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

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Ik probeer me idd zo goed als het kan te informeren over de situatie daar. En daarvan ben ik afhankelijk van de media. Wèl zoveel mogelijk alle media en bronnen en probeer daarbij kritisch te blijven over de betrouwbaarheid. Veel meer kan ik niet doen. Maar jij vindt dat niemand zich een redelijk juist beeld kan vormen zonder ter plekke aanwezig te zijn?

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Ik niet iig. Mijn verwachting vooraf komt redelijk overeen met hoe het nu is. Vandaar dat ik tegen de oorlog was.

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In jouw visie zijn "de terroristen" de voornaamste oorzaak van het dood en de destructie?

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Ja Saddam was een brute dictator (vergelijking met Hitler is onzinnig) en een van de pro-argumenten was dan ook 'bevrijding' van de bevolking van Irak. Nou dat is nu dus een militaire bezetting geworden. Een behoorlijk bloedige bezetting.

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Op maandag 10 januari 2005 01:22 schreef Umm-Qasr het volgende:


Ik wist dat zulke dingen zouden gebeuren maar op een veel kleinere schaal. Maar dan alsnog vind ik het hypocriet om dan om die reden tegen de oorlog te zijn. dat bedoelde ik eigenlijk met mijn opmerking dat je t eens aan een Irakees moet vragen. Want vanuit je luie stoel, met alle respect, kunnen oordelen over zulke belangrijke en indringende zaken voor miljoenen, noem ik echt arrogant.

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Jazeker. Diegenen die toen aan de macht waren kunnen het simpelweg niet hebben dat een sjie'iet en een koerd mee mag beslissen over Irak. En de rest vd Arabische wereld juicht dit helaas toe ...

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Max van der Stoel, VN-rapporteur voor de naleving van de mensenrechten in Irak, zegt dit. En dat zegt veel!!

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En de 'bezetting' zie jij als oorzaak vd onrust ipv de 'verzetstrijders'??

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Official: U.S. calls off search for Iraqi WMDs

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. inspectors have ended their search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in recent weeks, a U.S. intelligence official told CNN.

The United States is taking steps to determine how it received erroneous intelligence that deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein was developing and stockpiling nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Wednesday.

CNN

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Op woensdag 12 januari 2005 18:43 schreef Dagblad_De_Limburger het volgende:
ja dat bedoelde ik eigenlijk sp3c

Een vraag: Ik dacht dat de buitenlandse mujahedin voornamelijk sji'ieten waren? Ik las hier ergens dat de mujahedin aanslagen plegen op de sji'ieten? Dat doen de soennieten (ba'ath aanhangers) toch?

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Op woensdag 12 januari 2005 19:53 schreef Basp1 het volgende:
Nu er in irak binnen 3 weken verkiezingen aankomen vind ik het toch wel vreemd dat de reguliere media hier niet iets meer aandacht aan besteden, er zitten daar toch zoveel journalisten, of willen ze toch alleen maar de hele dag op jacht naar de volgende bomaanslag?

http://www.electionworld.org/iraq.htm

Hierop zijn de betrokken partijen zichtbaar, er wordt helaas verder niet echt wat meer achtergrondinformatie gegeven. En wat betreft de links die hun geven, helaas kan ik geen arabisch lezen dus bij de meeste partijen blijven de standpunten waarvoor hun staan mij onthouden.

Umm-Qasr zou jij hierover wat meer infromatie kunen verstrekken?

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Op donderdag 13 januari 2005 00:29 schreef Dagblad_De_Limburger het volgende:
Ach wat maakt het uit, het gaat er om dat er ten minste 1 bruut weg is. Of hij nou die abc-wapens had of niet, de wereld is een dictator armer. Maar dit is mijn mening

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Op vrijdag 14 januari 2005 13:38 schreef Dagblad_De_Limburger het volgende:
Ja zonder de VS waren die doden er ook wel gevallen, het enige verschil is dat er nu over een tijdje een democratie is.