Oorlog in Oekraïne #928 Moedig voorwaarts

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 09:22 schreef BlaZ het volgende:

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Ik vindt is zonder t overigens.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 14:51 schreef StateOfMind het volgende:

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Hmmmm interessant.
Niet bepaald iemand die je dus binnenkort uit een raam zou kunnen verwachten.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 10:26 schreef sexbierum het volgende:

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Jij hebt de discussie gewonnen hoor. Hulde!

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 09:31 schreef Delenlill het volgende:

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Ik had het over historische conflicten. Maar wanneer over laat maar zeggen 100 jaar de landgrenzen voor een langere periode vast staan. En dit erkend is door een een grote meerderheid van de wereld (Zoals de landgrenzen nu zijn). Dan moet er uiteindelijk inderdaad geschikt worden. Op den duur komt er gewoon vrede. Wij weten nu nog niet in welke hoedanigheid dit in Oekraïne zal zijn. Dat is aan de Oekraïense regering (al zijn daar wel restricties aan verbonden in mijn mening)

En dan worden dit soort conflicten waar wij het nu over hebben interne aangelegenheden. (Al is dit niet helemaal het geval, daar her allerlei instanties zijn zoals de VN die er ook bij betrokken raken, maar in elk geval geen reden om weer een oorlog te starten om dit gebied te bevrijden).

Daarmee speel ik helemaal niet Rusland/Putin in de hand. Want Rusland moet gewoon stoppen met zijn expansiedrift. Het maakt niet uit wat voor een reden zij daar nu ook voor gebruiken.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 15:11 schreef Ulx het volgende:
Starlink ontkent een beetje halfslachtig het gebruik door Russen. Het mag wel even verder worden onderzocht, vooral gezien de voorkeur van de eigenaar voor de Russen.

[ twitter ]

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 09:24 schreef BlaZ het volgende:
Kharkiv is vanacht overigens zeer zwaar getroffen:

https://kyivindependent.c(...)mass-fire-killing-1/

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Op vrijdag 9 februari 2024 17:32 schreef Ulx het volgende:
[ twitter ]

Edit: Kans op een photoshop is groot. Gras is wel erg groen.

edit2: Het toestel schijnt op de basis in Denemarken te staan.

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Op zaterdag 3 februari 2024 11:00 schreef ExTec het volgende:
Dan wordt budanov de volgende CIC. Die komt mij niet onbekwaam over.

Keep in mind dat oekrainse leger nog steeds redelijk gevuld is met sovjet unie opgeleidde officieren. Het is voor te stellen dat zaluzhni met die 'kaste' meer geduld heeft dan budanov, want daar komt hij zelf uit voort. Budanov niet, die is echt van na de SU.

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Zelenskyy’s new top commander has a reputation as a ‘butcher’

By replacing his top general, Ukraine’s president will have to shoulder full responsibility if the war goes badly.

KYIV — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy wanted to give his military a shakeup by appointing General Oleksandr Syrskyi as commander-in-chief: many of his troops reacted with despair.

“Syrskyi will kill us all,” said one soldier, who like others in this story spoke on condition of being granted anonymity.

The 58-year-old Syrskyi, who until Thursday was the commander of Ukraine's ground forces, has a reputation as a hard-driving Soviet-style general who puts his men in danger to reach his military goals, said a person with knowledge of Syrskyi’s operating style.

That was highlighted by Syrskyi overseeing last year's dogged nine-month defense of Bakhmut, where Ukrainian troops suffered high casualties against relentless "meat waves" of Russian attackers before having to abandon the eastern city. That earned him the gruesome nickname of "Butcher."

On hearing of his appointment, a Ukrainian soldier tweeted a message in a group chat of veterans of the Bakhmut fight: "We're all fucked."

Another officer posted on X that Syrskyi's leadership "is bankrupt, his presence or orders coming from his name are demoralizing, and he undermines trust in the command in general. His relentless pursuit of tactical gains constantly depletes our valuable human resources, resulting in tactical advances such as capturing tree lines or small villages, with no operational goals in mind.”

That's not the reaction Zelenskyy was hoping for when he removed the popular General Valery Zaluzhny from the job of running the military.

“When the president asked Zaluzhny who should stay and be promoted, he named Syrskyi as one of the most experienced generals,” said an official in Zelenskyy's office. “He is a good, decent military man, with a lot of experience and a very good strategic vision of war.”

Syrskyi on Friday laid out his plans, addressing the concerns about his leadership head-on.

“The life and health of servicemen have always been and are the main value of the Ukrainian army,” he said. “Therefore, maintaining a balance between the performance of combat tasks and the restoration of units and units with the intensification of training and training of personnel remains more relevant than ever.”

Syrskyi and Zaluzhny have appeared to get along.

Zaluzhny was not available for comment, but in a December 2022 interview with the Economist, he said that he trusted Syrskyi.

“If he tells me he needs another brigade, it means that he needs another brigade. I certainly don’t think I am the smartest one here. I must and do listen to those who are in the field. Because the initiative is there,” Zaluzhny said.

Syrskyi is an experienced general who has served in the Ukrainian army since the collapse of the USSR, took part in the war in Donbas against Russia and its local supporters in 2014, and is seen by the president as the man responsible for the successful defense of Kyiv and Ukraine’s rapid counteroffensive in the Kharkiv region in 2022.

Those are also campaigns where Zaluzhny got a lot of praise.

"He’s credited with the military repelling the initial Russian onslaught and then taking back 50 percent of the territory the Russians had captured,” said Edward Arnold with the Royal United Services Institute think tank. “He’s shown the ability to plan operations on a national scale … he’s had an outsized impact on the war.”

However, there have been frictions over Zaluzhny's management style, the way he publicly differed with Zelenskyy over the conduct of the war, and his inability to gain headway against the Russians in last year's disappointing counteroffensive.

"Zelenskyy wanted a plan of war, but all he heard was, 'Give us more troops and millions of artillery shells,'" said an official in the president's office.

That's putting enormous pressure on Syrskyi to change the way the military is managed and to shift the dynamic on the battlefront.
A troubled takeover

"Zaluzhny’s successor is inheriting many challenges," said Dara Massicot, an expert on the war at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

For Zelenskyy, the key is to have a commander-in-chief in sync with the country's political leadership.

“We all have one goal. We must win the war and for that, we must eliminate the current problems of the Ukrainian army: logistics, rotation, and supplies. We, for some reason, have many troops that are very far away from the front. Overstaffed headquarters,” said the official in the presidential office. “Syrskyi will have carte blanche on structural changes, he will have a team of super experienced officers. He will be doing war 24/7.”

One of Syrskyi's first tasks will be to ensure that the change of leadership doesn't damage morale already on the ropes as casualties mount, allies waver and Moscow shows no sign of backing down from its effort to conquer Ukraine.

Zaluzhny has been "the glue that’s kept the Ukrainian military together. It would be a hit to morale and take a little while for the successor to settle in and get the same level of kudos with the troops,” said Arnold.

Syrskyi will also have to improve the way the military functions.

The key challenges are improved organization, improved training and improved logistics — which can then be leveraged by improved equipment and weaponry from allies, said Austrian military analyst Tom Cooper.

"With all due respect, and with or without Zaluzhny, these are also the three major problem zones of the Ukrainian army. Even after two years since the all-out invasion, none of these is working well, and improvements observed so far remain relatively minimal,” Cooper added.

Syrskyi addressed that in his Friday note, saying: "Knowing all the needs of the front without exception and mastering the situation in each of its areas is the task of headquarters at all levels."

He also called for the use of more technology like the drones that have enabled Ukrainian troops to fend off Russian attacks despite their shortage of artillery ammunition.

But in the end, it's the country's top political leadership that will bear the blame for defeat and garner the praise for victory — and Zelenskyy's decision to fire Zaluzhny puts the outcome of the war squarely on his shoulders.

“Of course, if the situation at the war front worsens, Zelenskyy will get the blame. People will say, everything was good when Zaluzhny ruled the army,” said Ukrainian political analyst Volodymyr Fesenko.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 20:55 schreef AchJa het volgende:

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 20:55 schreef AchJa het volgende:

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Op zaterdag 3 februari 2024 15:17 schreef AchJa het volgende:

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Ik schets gewoon een mogelijkheid, niks meer niks minder. Jij doet net alsof het leger een soort overleg organisatie is waar de mening van de eerste de beste soldaat leidend is. Impopulaire beslissingen nemen waarbij mensen kunnen sneuvelen hoort bij het commandant zijn.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 21:31 schreef ExTec het volgende:

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Boeiend, wat die en die vinden.
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Of ga je nou naar gelang het je argument dient beetje switchen tussen de 2?

Is het ineens schrodingers organisatie, erg democratisch en meeste stemmen gelden, en niks democratie, doen je wat je opgedragen wordt tegelijkertijd?

Verwarrend.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 21:41 schreef Nebelwerfer het volgende:

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Het gaat in dit geval over politiek die zich bemoeit met het leger. Een beetje militair vindt daar wat van, zeker als er veel twijfels zijn.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 21:53 schreef ExTec het volgende:

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Natuurlijk bemoeid de politiek zich met het leger. Zoals ik al eerder opmerkte, oekraine / europa is geen zuid-amerika, waar de mensen met grote petten met veel sterren erop het voor het zeggen hebben.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 22:01 schreef Nebelwerfer het volgende:

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Tja, maar dat is een wezenlijk verschil. Uiteindelijk moeten we het afwachten. Maar vooraf was de beslissing al omstreden. Als dan met de vervanging ook vraagtekens worden opgeroepen, denk je eerder negatief dan positief. Zeker als Zelensky ook nog eens motieven heeft een populaire generaal te vervangen.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 22:08 schreef ExTec het volgende:

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Eens, ik vond syrsky niet de gedoodverfde kandidaat.

Maar verhalen in oorlogen a'la: jullie mogen je en daar kansloos dood gaan vechten, zodat ze daar en daar ademruimte krijgen - zijn veel voorkomend. Zelfs patton stond op een bepaald moment bekend als een slachter. Maar daarna op het schild gehesen, want grote winnaar, enzovoort.

We zullen het gaan merken.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 22:01 schreef Nebelwerfer het volgende:

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Tja, maar dat is een wezenlijk verschil. Uiteindelijk moeten we het afwachten. Maar vooraf was de beslissing al omstreden. Als dan met de vervanging ook vraagtekens worden opgeroepen, denk je eerder negatief dan positief. Zeker als Zelensky ook nog eens motieven heeft een populaire generaal te vervangen.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 22:26 schreef Nebelwerfer het volgende:
Er was ook niet echt zo’n kandidaat.

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En nu met grote tekorten en veel dreiging van Russen lijkt een beheerste leider beter.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 22:41 schreef ExTec het volgende:

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Zoals eerder opgemerkt, je kan niet een NL Leger checklist pakken: die opleiding? check. Zoveel jaar ervaring? check - pakken en dat laten prevaleren en dan precies 1 kandidaat hebben. Die luxe heeft oekraine niet.

En natuurlijk doet ervaring er toe. Iemand die net economie op de uni heeft afgerond wordt in de regel niet meteen ergens CFO.

Maar of je de benodigde bagage hebt? Ja. Komen dat soort talenten wel eens bovendrijven? Ja, bij moderne startups zie je dat wel eens.
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Als slachter syrsky tegen behoorlijke kosten ergens een doorbraak weet te forceren, hangen we de vlag voor hem uit, ook hier. Fortune favors the bold, who dares wins.

De tijd zal het ons leren.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 23:00 schreef Nebelwerfer het volgende:

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Yeah, sowieso eerst maar eens zien dat ze de munitie krijgen om überhaupt 2024 door te komen. Weinig zaken zijn zeker voor dit jaar.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 23:06 schreef ExTec het volgende:

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Ik ben redelijk teleurgesteld, qua dat, in ons.

Die clowns in de VS zijn wmb afgeschreven.

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 20:55 schreef AchJa het volgende:

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Op zaterdag 10 februari 2024 23:12 schreef BlaZ het volgende:

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Ik denk dat er nog wel een oplossing komt door met Europese fondsen Amerikaanse wapens te kopen.

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They were recruited by Russia to fight in Ukraine. Now thousands of them have lost contact with their families
The Russian government is recruiting foreign mercenaries in Nepal by offering them a lucrative package to fight in Ukraine. CNN's Matthew Chance spoke with former foreign fighters about what they witnessed and families who have lost contact with their loved ones.

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Trump says he would encourage Russia to ‘do whatever the hell they want’ to any NATO country that doesn’t pay enough

Former President Donald Trump on Saturday said he would encourage Russia to do “whatever the hell they want” to any NATO member country that doesn’t meet spending guidelines on defense in a stunning admission he would not abide by the collective-defense clause at the heart of the alliance if reelected.

“NATO was busted until I came along,” Trump said at a rally in Conway, South Carolina. “I said, ‘Everybody’s gonna pay.’ They said, ‘Well, if we don’t pay, are you still going to protect us?’ I said, ‘Absolutely not.’ They couldn’t believe the answer.”

Trump said “one of the presidents of a big country” at one point asked him whether the US would still defend the country if they were invaded by Russia even if they “don’t pay.”

“No, I would not protect you,” Trump recalled telling that president. “In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You got to pay. You got to pay your bills.”

The White House later Saturday called Trump’s remarks “appalling and unhinged” and touted President Joe Biden’s efforts to bolster the alliance.

“President Biden has restored our alliances and made us stronger in the world because he knows every commander in chief’s first responsibility is to keep the American people safe and hold true to the values that unite us. … Encouraging invasions of our closest allies by murderous regimes is appalling and unhinged – and it endangers American national security, global stability, and our economy at home,” White House spokesperson Andrew Bates said in a statement.

At the core of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization is the promise of collective defense — that an attack on one member nation is an attack on all the nations in the alliance. Trump has long complained about the amount other countries in NATO spend on defense compared with the United States and has repeatedly threatened to withdraw the US from NATO. But his comments Saturday are his most direct indication he does not intend to defend NATO allies from Russian attack if he is reelected.

Trump has for years inaccurately described how NATO funding works. NATO has a target that each member country spends a minimum of 2% of gross domestic product on defense, and most countries are not meeting that target. But the figure is a guideline and not a binding contract, nor does it create “bills”; member countries haven’t been failing to pay their share of NATO’s common budget to run the organization.

As president, Trump privately threatened multiple times to withdraw the United States from NATO, according to The New York Times. Trump has described NATO as “obsolete” and has aligned himself with Russian President Vladimir Putin, who wants to weaken the alliance. Trump has long praised Putin and went as far as to side with the Russian leader over the US intelligence community over Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election.

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Hungary’s president resigns amid uproar over child sex abuse case pardon

Hungarian President Katalin Novak has announced that she is resigning from office following mounting public criticism over her decision to pardon a man implicated in a child sexual abuse case.

“I decided to grant a pardon last April, believing that the convict did not exploit the vulnerability of the children whom he had overseen,” Novak said in her speech during a national televised address on Saturday.

“I made a mistake, as the pardon and the lack of reasoning were conducive to triggering doubts about the zero tolerance that applies to pedophilia,” she said.

Thousands of protesters took to the streets of the country’s capital Budapest on Friday, calling for Novak to step down.

In April 2023, Novak had pardoned some two dozen people ahead of a visit by Pope Francis – among them the deputy director of a children’s home who had helped the former director hide his crimes. The director was sentenced to eight years in prison for sexually abusing underaged boys between 2004 and 2016, Reuters reported.

The deputy director received a three-year sentence.

Novak was away on an official visit to Doha when protesters arrived at her office, according to Reuters.

Hungarian opposition parties have demanded Novak’s resignation.

Novak is a close ally of Hungary’s hardline nationalist prime minister Viktor Orbán and was the former family minister. In 2022, she became the first woman to hold the largely ceremonial role of Hungarian president.

Saturday’s address was her final one as president, less than two years after she took office.

She apologized to victims and their families in her televised speech on Saturday, saying she had “made a mistake.”

Her apology was “to those whom I may have offended and to all the victims who might have felt that I did not stand up for them,” Novak said, adding that she had always “consistently advocated for the protection of children and families.”

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Russia To Create Blacklist Of YouTube Vloggers Who Refuse To Join Kremlin-Backed Platform
Russia plans to create a blacklist of YouTube vloggers who refuse to join a Kremlin-backed alternative to the U.S. video platform as it seeks to tighten its grip on information.

Aleksandr Malkevich, a member of Russia’s Civic Chamber, told a conference on February 10 dedicated to the topic of blogging that the list would target those individuals focusing on a Russian audience.

He said the list should be used as the basis for taking “measures” against such individuals, but did not disclose what such measures could include.

Malkevich said the blacklist would be the first of many steps taken to force Russian vloggers onto a Kremlin-controlled platform.

Russia has already launched an alternative to YouTube called Rutube and many say the Kremlin could eventually ban the U.S.-based platform once it gets enough of its own citizens onto the domestic alternative.

YouTube and other U.S. social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram have been a thorn in Russian President Vladimir Putin’s side.

Since coming to power nearly a quarter century ago, the 71-year-old Putin has increasingly sought to control what Russians read, see, and hear.

The nation’s television stations, news portals, and major newspapers are owned either by the state or Kremlin-friendly tycoons who censor material unfavorable to Putin.

However, the Russian leader has no control over material on Western platforms and they have become lifelines for the voice of the battered Russian opposition.

YouTube has arguably been the most powerful of the Western platforms in combating Kremlin propaganda.

Jailed opposition leader Aleksei Navalny used the platform to post his team’s investigations into corruption at the highest levels of government, including into Putin and his former prime minister, Dmitry Medvedev.

The investigative videos on Navalny's have racked up hundreds of millions of views over the years.

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Air Force: Ukraine downs 40 drones overnight
Ukrainian air defense destroyed 40 of the 45 Shahed-type drones Russia launched from the occupied Crimea, the Air Force reported on Feb. 11.

From the onset of the full-scale invasion, the Russian military has utilized Crimea and other occupied territories in Ukraine as launch sites for missiles and other weapons targeting Ukraine.

Anti-aircraft missile units, mobile firing groups, and electronic warfare equipment were involved in repelling the air attack.

The drones were destroyed over Kyiv, Vinnytsia, Zhytomyr, Kirovohrad, Mykolaiv, Cherkasy, Odesa, Dnipro and Kherson oblasts.

Serhii Popko, head of the Kyiv City Military Administration, said via his official Telegram page that the air alert in the capital lasted for almost two hours. All attack drones enemy heading for Kyiv have been destroyed by air defense forces on the outskirts of the city, according to Popko.

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VOA: F-16s are ‘exceeding expectations’ of Ukraine's pilots
Ukrainian pilots are "very impressed" with American-made F-16 fighter jets, the Ukrainian service of the Voice of America reported.

A pilot, identified by the call sign "Phantom," mentioned in an interview with the outlet that Ukrainian pilots undergoing training on multirole fighters in the U.S. and Europe had praised the aircraft.

Several Western allies pledged to transfer F-16 jets to Ukraine. The exact number of the jets to be delivered has not yet been announced, but The Telegraph estimated in January that the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway are offering as many as 60 F-16s to Ukraine. All of the jets are around 40 years old.

On Feb. 5, the Netherlands announced that the country is preparing to send Ukraine an additional six U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine. This brings the total number of jets pledged to Ukraine by the Netherlands to 24.

"Our pilots are very impressed," Ukrainian pilot interviewed by the Voice of America said. "This aircraft has simply exceeded their expectations. Even with the amount of information they have received during their training, they already see great prospects for how this aircraft will help our Air Force increase the capabilities of our combat aviation."

"Phantom" noted, however, that the process of retraining pilots on the sophisticated aircraft posed certain challenges, as many of them were accustomed to operating older Soviet-built Su-27s and MiG-29s.

Pentagon Press Secretary Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder announced in August that the U.S. would begin training Ukrainian pilots on the F-16 jets "in support of the international effort to develop and strengthen Ukraine's long-term defenses."

A coalition of 11 countries was established a month earlier, aimed at coordinating the delivery of fighter jets and facilitating the training of Ukraine and its pilots in their operation. Subsequently, this coalition expanded to encompass 14 countries.

The U.S. began training Ukrainian pilots in October, while the Royal Air Force of the U.K. initiated its training program in August. Pilots underwent flying and English language courses before the first group commenced specialized F-16 training in Denmark in December.

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Nato chief urges Europe to ramp up arms production to avoid ‘decades’ of conflict with Russia
Stoltenberg says that defeat for Ukraine could mean more Putin-inspired aggression

Europe must shift to wartime weapons production to deter Russian aggression and help Ukraine, the secretary general of Nato has said.

Jens Stoltenberg warned that “we need to reconstitute and expand our industrial base faster, to increase deliveries to Ukraine and refill our own stocks”.

“This means shifting from slow peacetime to high-tempo conflict production,” he told the German Sunday daily Welt am Sonntag.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine proved that “peace in Europe cannot be taken for granted”, he said ahead of this month’s second anniversary of Putin’s illegal invasion.

“If Putin wins in Ukraine, there is no guarantee that Russian aggression will not spread further,” he said.

“Supporting Ukraine now and investing in Nato’s own capabilities is our best defence.

“Nato does not seek war with Russia, but we need to brace ourselves for potentially decades of confrontation.”

Mr Stoltenberg’s comments came amidst growing pleas for shells, ammunition and other military aide from Ukraine as it battles Russian forces into a third year.

Moscow has shifted to a wartime economy and invested huge sums in its military. Russia is spending 40 per cent of its GDP on the war, which the West is struggling to match.

On Friday, Germany’s Chancellor Olaf Scholz and US President Joe Biden urged American lawmakers to approve a long-delayed military aid package for Ukraine.

“The failure of the United States’ Congress in not supporting Ukraine is close to criminal neglect,” Mr Biden said as he hosted Mr Scholz in the Oval Office.

EU leaders backed a ¤50 billion (£42.6 billion) aid package for Kyiv after Hungary’s Viktor Orban, Putin’s closest EU ally, dropped his veto on the funds on February 1.

In November, Boris Pistorius, the German defence minister, admitted that an EU pledge to provide Ukraine with a million shells by March this year would not be met.

Mr Stoltenberg said: “As long as we invest in our security and we stay united, we will continue to deter any aggression.

“We monitor closely what Russia does and we have increased our presence in the eastern part of the alliance.”

Nato defence ministers will meet in Brussels on February 15, one week ahead of the second anniversary of Russia’s offensive in Ukraine.

A meeting of the Ukraine Defence Contact Group will be a key feature of the talks.

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Op zondag 11 februari 2024 09:05 schreef StateOfMind het volgende:
Mooi dat ze bevallen
Hopelijk zien we ze snel vliegen boven Oekraïne.

Al zal het wel wennen zijn als ik ze straks nooit meer zie hier in de lucht

Al sinds jongs af aan horen overvliegende F16's er hier gewoon bij, een vreemd idee dat dat straks tot het verleden behoort.

Gelukkig hebben we de foto's, en F35's nog.

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Op zondag 11 februari 2024 14:12 schreef byah het volgende:
Putin heeft ons gewoon bij de ballen. Of Trump nou wint of niet, de helft van de VS zal achter steun aan Europa in een conflict met Rusland staan

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Op zondag 11 februari 2024 14:41 schreef Cilantro het volgende:

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Mwa het is niet alsof het Russische leger nou zoveel voorstelt.

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Op zondag 11 februari 2024 15:26 schreef byah het volgende:

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Het gaat helemaal niet om het Russische leger, Putin weet ook wel dat de NAVO veel sterker is in een conventioneel conflict. Het gaat om de eenheid in Europa en de NAVO. Putin zal proberen de artikel 5 bluf te callen. Wat als een klein stuk Litouwen wordt ingenomen door de Russen, gaan wij dan als eenheid de oorlog verklaren, of komt er onenigheid? De volgende dominosteen zijn de Amerikaanse verkiezingen, als Trump wint garandeer ik dat Putin de NAVO gaat testen.

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Op zondag 11 februari 2024 15:26 schreef byah het volgende:

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Het gaat helemaal niet om het Russische leger, Putin weet ook wel dat de NAVO veel sterker is in een conventioneel conflict. Het gaat om de eenheid in Europa en de NAVO. Putin zal proberen de artikel 5 bluf te callen. Wat als een klein stuk Litouwen wordt ingenomen door de Russen, gaan wij dan als eenheid de oorlog verklaren, of komt er onenigheid? De volgende dominosteen zijn de Amerikaanse verkiezingen, als Trump wint garandeer ik dat Putin de NAVO gaat testen.

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Op zondag 11 februari 2024 16:34 schreef sturmpie het volgende:

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val je 1 navo-lidstaat aan dan is dat 'n aanval op de hele navo
denk nou niet dat putin zo dom is dat hij iets gaat proberen

dat hij oekraine is binnengevallen is 'n heel ander verhaal, oekraine is niet lid van eu/navo dus die staat er alleen voor .