Demonstraties in Oekra�ne #3

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 19:06 schreef capuchon_jongen het volgende:
Zou wel eens een derde wereldoorlog kunnen worden.

Tussen Europa en Rusland met Oekra�ne als speelbal...

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 19:29 schreef Tocadisco het volgende:

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Je bent communist en tegelijkertijd verdedig je een land waar 85% van het bnp wordt gecontroleerd door een groepje van 50 oligarchen?

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 20:03 schreef Tocadisco het volgende:

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Want iedereen die het niet met jou eens is is een fascist?

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 20:28 schreef arjan1112 het volgende:
Dat maak ik er zelf van

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 20:34 schreef DeParo het volgende:

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Het gaat om de reactie van de EU, niet om die van de Verenigde Staten, het is wachten op de Russische bemoeienis (openlijk althans).

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 20:39 schreef sonnyspek het volgende:

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THE ONLY GOOD COMMUNIST IS A DEAD COMMUNIST---Homefront intro

March of Soviet Tankists

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 21:13 schreef DeParo het volgende:

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Inderdaad maar laten we niet doen alsof Poetin daar nog veel mee te maken heeft laat staan de rest van het regime daar.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 21:35 schreef SuicideErrorist het volgende:

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Puur oppertunisme van de kant van de Sovjet-Unie. Als de Nazi's zich aan het Ribbentrop-pact hadden gehouden hadden ze niets gedaan.

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Naturally, the U.S.S.R. could not ignore these ominous events. There is no doubt that any war, however small, started by the aggressors in any remote corner of the world constitutes a danger to the peacable countries. All the more serious then is the danger arising from the new imperialist war, which has already drawn into its orbit over five hundred million people in Asia, Africa and Europe. In view of this, while our country is unswervingly pursuing a policy of preserving peace, it is at the same tim
e doing a great deal to increase the preparedness of our Red Army and our Red Navy.

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Nazy Germany and Soviet Union never were friends, due to diametrically opposite idiologies. If Soviet idiology claimed that all the nationalities are equil (Soviet Union was a multinational country with Stalin as a leader, who was Georgian), Nazi ideology was nationalistic and divided nations into different sorts.

To understand why Stalin made and agreement with Hitler, we need to loock into the past: Stalin tried to create antyHitler coalition already some years before 1939. But Britain and France didn't responce. After dividing Czechoslovakia by authority of Britain and France Soviet Union realised that the main goal of Western contries was to let Germany attack the USSR. In this case to their enemies would destroy each other.

Stalin understood that there was no chance to avoid the war with Hitler. That's why he made knight's move by making agreement with Hitler:The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

For justice, note, that agreement with Hitler wasn't an exception at that times: on 26.01.1934 Piłsudski-Hitler pact (pact between Poland and Germany); The Munich Agreement between Germany, after wich Germany takes Czechoslovakia, as well as Poland takes some parts of that country).

So The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact helped the USSR to delay the beginning of war. But why Soviet union captured part of Poland? Eastern Poland was called also as West Ucraine and West Belarus, due to it's ethnical features: mostly on that lands lived Ucranians and Byelorussians. Poles were in the minority there. Because of that fact it was dangerous for Soviet Union to let those lands been occupied by Germany. if Germany occupied whole Poland together with West Ucraine, then they could create national government in West Ucraine. Then thouse government could officially ask Hitler to help them in "breaking free the rest of Ucraine from the USSR" - a good reason to start the war with the USSR...

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact had been signed shortly before the German and Soviet invasion of Poland in 1939. Many claim that The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was the reason of WW2.

But let's recollect some facts:

Already in May 1939 Hitler had plans to attack Poland. The USSR till August tried to create anyHitler coalition with Britain and France, but there was no responce...And only on 23.08.1939 Soviet Union made an agreemant with Germany...

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The Soviet Government, however, did not want to miss a single opportunity to reach agreement with other powers for joint counteraction to Hitler aggression. Without the least delay it presented to the British Government its counter-proposal, which was: first, that the Soviet Union, Britain and France should mutually undertake to render one another every immediate assistance, including military, in the event of aggression against any one of them; secondly, that the Soviet Union, Britain and France should undertake to render every assistance, including military, to the states of Eastern Europe situated between the Baltic and the Black Sea and bordering on the Soviet Union in the event of aggression against these states; thirdly, that the Soviet Union, Britain and France should undertake to determine without delay the extent and forms of military assistance to be rendered to each of these states in both the above-mentioned cases.

Those were the most important points of the Soviet proposal. It will be easily seen that there was a fundamental difference between the Soviet and the British proposals, inasmuch as the Soviet proposal provided for really effective measures for joint counteraction to aggression.

For three weeks no reply to that proposal came from the British Government. This caused growing anxiety in Britain, owing to which the British Government felt constrained in the end to resort to a manoeuvre in order to deceive public opinion.

On May 8, the British reply, or, to be more exact, the British counter-proposals, were received in Moscow. It was again proposed that the Soviet Government should make a unilateral declaration in which it "would undertake that in the event of Great Britain and France being involved in hostilities in fulfilment of these obligations" (to Belgium, Poland, Rumania, Greece and Turkey) "the assistance of the Soviet Government would be immediately available if desired and be afforded in such manner and on such terms as might be agreed."

Once again the Soviet Union was expected to assume unilateral obligations. It was to commit itself to render assistance to Britain and France, while they assumed no obligations whatever toward the Soviet Union with regard to the Baltic Republics. Britain was thus proposing to put the U.S.S.R. in a position of inequality -- a position unacceptable to and incompatible with the dignity of any independent state.

It was easy to see that the British proposal was really addressed not so much to Moscow as to Berlin. The Germans were being invited to attack the Soviet Union, and were given to understand that Britain and France would remain neutral if only the Germans attacked through the Baltic States.

On May 11, the negotiations between the Soviet Union, Britain and France were still further complicated by a statement made by the Polish Ambassador in Moscow, Grzybowski, to the effect that "Poland does not regard it possible to conclude a pact of mutual assistance with the U.S.S.R...."

It goes without saying that a statement of this kind could only have been made by the Polish representative with the knowledge and approval of the ruling circles of Britain and France.

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In answer to the British inquiry, the Soviet Government suggested that a conference be called of representatives of the most interested states -- namely, Great Britain, France, Rumania, Poland, Turkey and the Soviet Union. In the opinion of the Soviet Government such a conference would offer the best opportunity to ascertain the real state of affairs and determine the position of each of the participants. The British Government, however, replied that it considered the Soviet proposal premature.

Instead of a conference, which would have made it possible to come to agreement on concrete measures to combat aggression, the British Government, on March 21, 1939, proposed that it and the Soviet Government, as well as France and Poland, should sign a declaration in which the signatory government would obligate themselves to "consult together as to what steps should be taken to offer joint resistance" in case of a threat to "the independence of any European state." In arguing that this proposal was acceptable, the British Ambassador laid particular emphasis on the point that the declaration was couched in very non-committal terms.

It was quite obvious that such a declaration could not serve as an effective means of averting the impending threat of aggression. Believing, however, that even so unpromising a declaration might constitute at least some step toward curbing the aggressor, the Soviet Government accepted the British proposal. But already on April 1, 1939, the British Ambassador in Moscow intimated that Britain considered the question of a joint declaration as having lapsed.

After two more weeks of procrastination of the British Foreign Secretary, Halifax, through the Ambassador in Moscow, made another proposal to the Soviet Government: namely, that it should issue a statement declaring that "in the event of an act of aggression against any European neighbour of the Soviet Union, who would offer resistance, the assistance of the Soviet Government could be counted upon if desired."

The underlying meaning of this proposal was that in the event of an act of aggression on the part of Germany against Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, or Finland, the Soviet Union would be obliged to render them assistance, without any commitment on the part of Britain to come to their aid. In other words, the Soviet Union was to go to war with Germany singlehanded. As to Poland and Rumania, whom Britain had given guarantees, the Soviet Union was to render assistance to them too against an aggressor. But even in their case Britain refused to assume any joint obligation with the Soviet Union, leaving herself a free hand and a field for any manoeuvre, not to mention the fact that, according to this proposal, Poland and Rumania, as well as the Baltic States, were to assume no obligations whatever toward the U.S.S.R.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 21:35 schreef SuicideErrorist het volgende:

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De communisten waren echt geen haar beter dan de Nazi's wat imperialisme betreft. Trouwens ook nog drie-werf hoera voor de door Stalin ge�niteerde hongersnood waar zo'n 7 miljoen Oekra�ners door omgekomen zijn. Fantastisch volkje hoor, die communisten, en dankbaar dat we moeten zijn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

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Op maandag 9 december 2013 20:38 schreef WitteMuur het volgende:

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Er waren inderdaad veel doden in Oekra�ne rond 1933. De oorzaken zijn sabotage, de koelakken slachten hun dieren liever dan dat ze worden gecollectiviseerd (bijvoorbeeld het aantal van paarden daalde van 30 miljoen tot 15 miljoen tussen 1928 en 1933). De tweede oorzaak is de droogte die bepaalde gebieden in Oekra�ne raakte in 1930, 1931 en 1932. De derde oorzaak was een tyfus-epidemie . (Dr. Hans Blumenfeld, internationally respected city planner and recipient of the Order of Canada, worked as an architect in Makayevka, Ukraine during the famine. He wrote: `There is no doubt that the famine claimed many victims. I have no basis on which to estimate their number .... Probably most deaths in 1933 were due to epidemics of typhus, typhoid fever, and dysentery. Waterborne diseases were frequent in Makeyevka; I narrowly survived an attack of typhus fever.' )

The fourth cause of the famine was the inevitable disorder provoked by the reorganization
of agriculture and the equally profound upheaval in economic and social relations: lack of experience,
improvization and confusion in orders, lack of preparation and leftist radicalism among some of the
poorer peasants and some of the civil servants.

The famine did not last beyond the period prior to the 1933 harvest. Extraordinary measures were taken by the Soviet government to guarantee the success of the harvest that year. In the spring, thirty-five million poods of seeds, food and fodder were sent to Ukraine. The organization and management of kolkhozy was improved and several thousand supplementary tractors, combines and trucks were delivered.

http://rumera.ru/wp-conte(...)r-view-of-Stalin.pdf

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 21:43 schreef hottentot het volgende:

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Ja 7000 arrestanten in 114 steden en dus niet alleen in New York.
En nee dat waren bij lange niet allemaal vreedzame protesten.

Get your facts straight.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 21:47 schreef hottentot het volgende:

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De demonstranten in de Oekra�ne vechten nog voor iets en hebben mijn inziens ook redelijke eisen, occupiers waren in mijn ogen toch al het vuil en het domste van de maatschappij wat lekker doelloos in een tentje bleef hangen.

Niet te vergelijken om mij.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 21:56 schreef hottentot het volgende:

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Goedkoper onderwijs, ja en daar mogen de rijken voor betalen door hun aandeel in het onderhoud van anderen nog verder te vergroten.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 21:59 schreef hottentot het volgende:

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SPOILER

Om spoilers te kunnen lezen moet je zijn ingelogd. Je moet je daarvoor eerst gratis Registreren. Ook kun je spoilers niet lezen als je een ban hebt.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:00 schreef sonnyspek het volgende:

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Ik heb altijd het gevoel dat vooral mislukte, arme mensen ageren op gelukte, rijkere mensen.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:02 schreef hottentot het volgende:

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En wie heeft bepaald dat Ego�sme ten alle tijde slecht is.

Ik werk toch verdomme niet om het allemaal maar weer weg te geven aan anderen. Nederland hetzelfde, In de stad schooien om voedsel terwijl ze het 25 kilometer gratis kunnen verbouwen. Stelletje luilakken.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:03 schreef hottentot het volgende:

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Met het woordje allemaal dek je je aardig in.

Doen we een andere: De meerderheid van de Nederlandse mensen in de schuldsanering heeft het ook aan zichzelf te danken.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:10 schreef sonnyspek het volgende:

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Veel werklozen zijn werkloos door de mentaliteit ja.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:09 schreef hottentot het volgende:

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Een gedeelte van een groep gebruiken om de groep als geheel als onschuldig neer te zetten.

Links trekje wat alleen werkt tegenover dom volk.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:15 schreef sonnyspek het volgende:

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Dat je niet zo veel medelijden moet hebben met de werklozen in Amerika.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:15 schreef arjan1112 het volgende:
Hoe kom je eigenlijk bij 22 miljoen werklozen? Volgens shadowstats is de werkloosheid 25% dat is dan 50 miljoen o.i.d

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:16 schreef arjan1112 het volgende:
De verborgen werkloosheid van 80% in de sowjetunie was pas geweldig he..

Gehheheeh

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:18 schreef sonnyspek het volgende:

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2de.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:18 schreef sonnyspek het volgende:

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Toch wel leuk dat jij gewoon een totalitaire ideologie steunt die verantwoordelijk is voor miljoenen doden.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:21 schreef hottentot het volgende:

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Tijd om pilletjes te halen voor je waanidee�n.

Jij spoort echt niet.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:31 schreef Tocadisco het volgende:
Die expert wat nu bij Nieuwsuur zit suggereert al dat Poetin overweegt om militair in te grijpen in Oekra�ne.

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Op woensdag 19 februari 2014 22:41 schreef Sylv3se het volgende:

Последствия атаки "Беркута" и ВВ в Мариинском парке 18.02. (Осторожно!)