Doping #52 KNWU gaat dopinggebruik Nederland onderzoeken

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Op donderdag 6 december 2012 19:09 schreef KilgoreTrout het volgende:
Hier staat een stuk meer:

http://eoswetenschap.eu/artikel/dopingmiddel-epo-werkt-niet

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Adam Cohen weerlegt die kritiek: 'Het klopt dat hemoglobine daalt tijdens inspanning, en dat je meer rode bloedcellen krijgt door EPO. Maar dat je daar harder van gaat fietsen, is te eenvoudige gesteld. Er zijn zoveel meer factoren die een prestatie bepalen: materiaal, techniek, training, tactiek, voeding, talent enzovoort. Op topniveau is het aandeel van EPO enorm beperkt.'

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Op donderdag 6 december 2012 18:41 schreef KilgoreTrout het volgende:

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Wat je nu zegt is totaal geen valide argument. Het ka best zijn dat Ben Johnson gewoon een goede atleet was en bovendien gebruikte toen iedereen dus de winner had altijd aan de estosteron gezeten.

Nu geloof ik wel dat testosteron werkt maar dat is omdat er meerdere studies zijn die dat aantonen, niet omdat er toevallig grote winnaars mee zijn gepakt.

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Twelve matched pairs of subjects, fed a high protein diet, were trained with weights for 6 weeks. In the final 3 weeks twelve subjects received 5 milligrams of methandrostenolone (Dianabol) twice daily. Maximum weight lifting, thickness of skin folds, oxygen uptake, blood chemistry profile, and concentration of blood lipids were determined. Also used were cable tensiometry and anthropometric measurements. The strength of treated subjects increased significantly; their mean weight gain was 2.48 kilograms with no significant change in skin fold thickness. Several anthropometric measurements increased significantly, as did oxygen uptake ability and nitrogen retention by the blood.

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Op donderdag 6 december 2012 16:46 schreef rubbereend het volgende:
Ik geloof nooit dat 90% van het dopingprobleem in het wielrennen zit

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Horner verdedigt Armstrong: "Testte hij ooit positief?"

Chris Horner verdedigt oud-ploegmaat Lance Armstrong. “Heeft hij ooit positief getest?”, reageert de Amerikaan tegenover Cyclingnews op de vraag wat hij van deze zaak vindt. “Ik ben oud en wijs genoeg om de enorme omvang van deze zaak te begrijpen, maar hoe je het ook wendt of keert, Lance wordt veroordeeld zonder ooit positief te zijn geweest.”

“Heel veel mensen zeggen nu dat ze hem van alles hebben zien doen, maar ik denk dan: USADA, WADA en UCI zeggen dus eigenlijk dat alle testen nutteloos zijn geweest. Al die testen die ik heb ondergaan waren dus voor niks?”, aldus Horner, die bij Astana en Radioshack samen met Armstrong reed.

De 41-jarige prof begint over de Tour van 2005. “Lance was daar de beste, hij doorstond alle tests en won de gele trui. Dan is er voor mij geen discussie meer, hij heeft de Tour gewonnen. Het is aan de UCI, de WADA, het USADA om een renner die dope gebruikt te pakken”, vindt Horner. “Die jongens moeten er uitgegooid worden.”

“Misschien heeft de USADA dat nu wel gedaan... Maar ik vind dat als je door de dopingtest komt, je de echte winnaar bent. Lance heeft de Tour dus zeven keer gewonnen. En daar heb ik van genoten”, aldus de renner van Radioshack-Nissan. “Als Lance zou bekennen, wordt het een ander verhaal. Of als er een paar positieve testen opduiken.”

“Maar tot die tijd heeft hij zeven keer de Tour gewonnen”, zo is Horner stellig. “Lance is geslachtofferd. Hij is de belangrijkste renner ter wereld en er was blijkbaar geen interesse in al die renners die verklaringen hebben afgelegd. Ze zijn alleen achter Lance aangegaan”, besluit Horner, die niet van plan is om na volgend seizoen te stoppen.

http://www.wielerflits.nl(...)j-ooit-positief.html

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Armstrong's legacy

But when the subject of Armstrong comes up, Horner continues the supportive line that he has walked for the last two or three years.

It wasn't always this way though. Before Armstrong signed with Astana in 2009, he and Horner appeared at different spectrums. Horner would occasionally dish out veiled comments about the 'preparation' of the Tour contenders during the Armstrong era, and when the two began racing with each other in Astana colours, it looked as though a confrontation would develop.

In fact the opposite happened. The two appeared to warm to each other and Horner has since changed his public declarations.

"Did he test positive?" he replies when asked about Armstrong's case with USADA.

Nowadays such a response leaves most people cringing. Armstrong did test positive for a steroid in 1999 and was given a post-dated exemption form from the UCI. But Horner continues.

"Look, I'm certainly old enough and wise enough to understand the magnitude of the situation, but in the end he's still getting prosecuted with no positive test. A lot of guys say they saw him and a lot say he did this and he did that, but I look at it and say: 'USADA, WADA, UCI, they're saying that the tests are worthless.' So do you take all the tests, 500, 1000, I don't know the number I've done in my own career and you basically say, that you took them for no reason?"

It's a neat side step from the issue, but Marion Jones also never tested positive and those fighting for clean sport would argue that any measure taken by anti-doping authorities – be it legal and fair - was a benefit for sport.

"Certainly in my younger years it was part [of conversations]... and it was so much on your mind what one rider was doing and was winning races. There were a lot of times when you're younger and it used up so much time and energy and so much negative energy. You're going out there training and you're asking yourself why should I train? But in the end at some point in time, you've just got to stop asking yourself how someone else is coming to a bike race and just start worrying about yourself. If a rider's passed the test he's won the race."

"And again I understand and I'm clear on how much information is out there on what Lance is said to have done but I'm also clear on the fact that he's passed all of his tests. Are you supposed to go back and erase those memories? I remember the 2005 Tour de France and Lance was the best guy there and he past all the tests and won the Tour. I'm not going to debate if he won, he was there, he won and passed the tests."

So if a cheat passes all tests, that's good enough? What about retrospective testing, testimony and accountability?

"It's the UCI's job, it's WADA's job, it's USADA's job to come up with a test so riders can't cheat. If they find the guys who cheated then those guys have to go, it's that simple," Horner said.

"Maybe USADA have found the guys who have cheated but.... for me, you won the race (if) you passed the test. Lance won seven Tours de France and that's what I saw and the moments I enjoyed and that the way it's going to stay."

It's clear that Horner doesn't feel cheated by riders in his generation who have broken the rules and not been caught and when asked if Armstrong has been victimized, he puts forward his case.

"There's no doubt about it. He's certainly been victimized because he's the most important cyclist in the world today. Certainly I believe they looked at him and evidently they weren't interested in the other 15 or 20 riders who were interviewed because those guys are retired or kept some of their results so they were going after Lance and victimizing Lance."

Six-month suspensions for riders who cooperated with USADA highlight two points: Firstly, if you cooperate with an investigation, a level of leniency is possible. However, riders were also allowed to continue racing after their suspensions were at the very least discussed. During the Tour de France, news broke that several riders had cooperated and would receive six-month bans. Cue headlines, pandemonium at team buses and the frantic issuing of press releases.

But the riders continued to race and made a series of "no comments" to the press. A number of them were omitted from the Olympic team yet carried on racing and being successful at the Tour of Colorado and the Tour of Utah. USADA and the riders' teams allowed them to jump on podiums, take wins and wave to crowds while the suspensions sat in an office in-tray.

Horner points out the high level of hypocrisy, but is coy on delivering names.

Within days of confessing to doping, Michael Barry was afforded a column in a US publication where he laid out how the sport could change for the better. Barry, it must not be forgotten, forged a career as a doper for a number of years and even helped cultivate an image for himself as an ethically clean rider.

"I certainly feel that they've targeted one rider and they've never tested positive and other riders that they know about are getting off lighter. They've looked at just Lance. They targeted one guy and that's all they care about and that's crazy because the sport should have been looked at as a whole," he says.

"I don't see what USADA has done as a positive thing, and the sport has been damaged by USADA. And I believe it could have been handled sooner and years ago."

But what if Armstrong announced tomorrow morning that he'd doped, that it was all true and he was banged to rights?

Horner sighs and looks into the distance.

"That's what it would take to change my mind," he says.

"Either that or a bunch of positive tests. That's what it would take, Lance saying I did it. Clearly Lance won seven Tours. I just want to keep it as simple as I can, otherwise you end up looking up at the stars and you question everything out there. The guy won the race, and I liked watching those wins, the dominance, the seriousness of Lance's training, and his better recovery."

Surely it can't be that simple, that black and white?

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Op zaterdag 15 december 2012 13:45 schreef Ericr het volgende:

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Het desbetreffende gedeelte uit het interview op Cyclingnews.

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12. Maud vd Meer (zwemmen) 4x
15. Erik Cadée (atletiek) 3x
16. Grim Vuijsters (judo) 3x

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Op zaterdag 15 december 2012 14:26 schreef TargaFlorio het volgende:
Het Brabants Dagblad heeft een onderzoekje gedaan onder een aantal Brabantse sporters. Van de aangeschreven sporters hebber er 72 gereageerd.

Hoe vaak controle in afgelopen 12 maanden:
1. Marianne Vos (wielrennen) 40x*
2. Koen de Kort (wielrennen) 12x
3. Ronan van Zandbeek (wielrennen) 8x
4. Boy van Poppel (wielrennen) 8x
5. Michiel vd Heijden (veldrijden/MTB) 8x
6. Gerben de Knegt (veldrijden) 5x
7. Nadine Boersen (atletiek) 5x
8. Raymon vd Biezen (BMX) 5x
9. Daan Spijkers (beachvolleybal) 5x
10. Kieran Govers (hockey) 5x
11. Laura de Vaan (paralympisch) 4x
12. Maud vd Meer (zwemmen) 4x
13. Rick vd Oever (handboogschieten) 4x
14. Robert Bouten (kano) 4x
15. Erik Cadée (atletiek) 3x
16. Grim Vuijsters (judo) 3x
17. Kees Akerboom (basketbal) 3x
18. "Hockyster Den Bosch" 3x
19. Austin Smith (hockey) 3x
20. Micki van Empel (veldrijden) 3x

(*) ongeveer, ze heeft het niet precies bijgehouden. 32x na wedstrijd, 4x ervoor en 4x buiten competitie.

Houd je je where-abouts bij?
- ja 12x
- alleen bij belangrijke wedstrijden 9x
- nee 51x

Heb je een biologisch paspoort?
- ja 7x
- nee 65x

Zijn er voldoende controles?
- ja 47x
- nee 12x
- mag vaker 9x
- overig 4x

Doping aangeboden/aanbevolen?
- nee 72x

Betrokken geweest bij doping?
- nee 72x

Opvallend, in negatieve zin, vind ik hoe weinig onderstaande 3 sporters gecontroleerd zijn. Zijn toch alle 3 op internationaal niveau actief en dan maar 3 of 4 controles.

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Op zaterdag 15 december 2012 15:27 schreef THEFXR het volgende:

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Judo staat echt wel bekend om hun dopinggebruik.

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Op zaterdag 15 december 2012 15:27 schreef THEFXR het volgende:

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klopt wel, Judo staat echt wel bekend om hun dopinggebruik. en 40x voor wielrennen geeft een hetze aan.