quote:'President Assad is de duivel die we kennen'
Uit beduchtheid voor 'the devil you don't know' ontziet de wereld andermaal een Syrische president Assad.
Wie nog dacht dat de Syrische president Bashar al-Assad een minder hardvochtig heerser is dan zijn vader Hafez, die weet nu beter. Zondagochtend liet hij het leger de stad Hama binnentrekken, waarbij de tanks voluit vuurden. Het resultaat: minstens vijftig doden, honderden gewonden.
Er schuilt een tragische symboliek in het feit dat juist in Hama alle geweldsregisters werden opengetrokken. De naam van deze stad is voor altijd verbonden met de massaslachting die Assad senior er in 1982 liet aanrichten om een soennitische opstand de kop in te drukken. Berichten over wat er was gebeurd, drongen destijds pas geleidelijk door tot de buitenwereld, die er nauwelijks consequenties aan verbond: Assad was een belangrijke speler in het Midden-Oosten, hij was 'the devil you know'.
Dankzij de moderne communicatiemiddelen kunnen de gebeurtenissen in Syrië niet meer zo vergaand aan het oog worden onttrokken als vroeger. Maar de geslotenheid van het land maakt het nog steeds moeilijk precies te achterhalen wat er gaande is. En tot op zekere hoogte is Assad jr. net als zijn vader 'the devil you know': er is gebrekkig zicht op wat er allemaal gist onder de etnische en religieuze lappendeken die Syrië is.
Vandaar dat ook nu het internationale protest tegen het gewelddadig optreden van het bewind-Assad aan de behoedzame kant is gebleven. Maar Syrië is nu vier maanden in de greep van het geweld, het dodental ligt al boven de 1.500, niets wijst erop dat de oppositie zich het zwijgen laat opleggen, noch dat het bewind een ander antwoord heeft dan brute repressie. Het wordt steeds onzinniger om Assad nog te ontzien uit angst voor 'the devil you don't know'.
en niet de politieke situatie in Libiequote:Key events in Syria's protest movement:
Nov 12 - The Arab League gives Syria three days to end its violent crackdown on anti-government protesters and implement an Arab peace deal or face suspension from the regional body.
Nov 9 - Syrian protesters pelt four opposition leaders with eggs outside Arab League headquarters in Cairo, preventing them from entering the building for talks. The protesters were apparently against the men agreeing to a dialogue with the government.
The UN says country runs risk of Libyan-style civil war as troops desert to back protesters.
Nov 8 - The UN said "more than 60" people had died in the central city of Homs since the announcement of the Arab League ceasefire plan.
Nov 2 - The Syrian government accepts several measures suggested by the Arab League aimed at halting the violence in the country, including the removal of tanks and armoured vehicles from the streets, the release of prisoners, and allowing the Arab League and media access to report on the situation.
Nov 1 - NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen rules out the possibility of military intervention in Syria.
More at http://www.aljazeera.com/(...)111113440490791.html
Natuurlijk was ik daar niet voor, dictator-fanboy.quote:Op woensdag 25 juli 2012 20:32 schreef Die_Hofstadtgruppe het volgende:
[..]
Vrede en democratie is Syrië hierna!
Jij was natuurlijk ook voor de Irak inval toch? Sadam weg!
Jihadis uit Afghanistan, Somalie, Irak ed zijn wel 'een volksopstand'?quote:Op woensdag 25 juli 2012 22:20 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
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Natuurlijk was ik daar niet voor, dictator-fanboy.![]()
Maar dat heb ik al zo vaak geroepen (Irak was geen volksopstand) en toch blijf je dom schreeuwen.
Daar heb ik al op geantwoord.quote:Op woensdag 25 juli 2012 22:54 schreef Die_Hofstadtgruppe het volgende:
[..]
Jihadis uit Afghanistan, Somalie, Irak ed zijn wel 'een volksopstand'?
Door die bombardementen hadden Jihadi's geen kans om zich er echt mee te bemoeien.quote:En in Libie NAVO bombardementen waren ook 'een volksopstand'?
Neuh.quote:Op woensdag 25 juli 2012 22:56 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
[..]
Daar heb ik al op geantwoord.
De jihadis zijn oa vanuit Libie gekomen!quote:Door die bombardementen hadden Jihadi's geen kans om zich er echt mee te bemoeien.
Jawel, maar je bent te lui om het te onthouden, troll.quote:
Waarom zijn ze daar niet gebleven dan?quote:De jihadis zijn oa vanuit Libie gekomen!
Om je vraag kort te beantwoorden, ze haten baathisten die aan de macht kwamen en die vlag aannamen.quote:Op woensdag 25 juli 2012 21:04 schreef remlof het volgende:
Waarom heeft de vlag van de FSA en SLA drie sterren en die van Syrië van Assad twee?
Ik dacht eigenlijk dat die rood-wit-zwarte vlaggen van Egypte, Libië en Syrië nog stamden uit de periode van de Federatie van Arabische Republieken waarbij elk land een ander aantal sterren in haar vlag had.
Omdat er nu gevochten moet worden in Syrië. Duh.quote:Op woensdag 25 juli 2012 23:03 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
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Jawel, maar je bent te lui om het te onthouden, troll.
[..]
Waarom zijn ze daar niet gebleven dan?
Dan hebben ze toch niks bereikt in Libië, eh?quote:Op woensdag 25 juli 2012 23:34 schreef Die_Hofstadtgruppe het volgende:
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Omdat er nu gevochten moet worden in Syrië. Duh.
Ah thanks, het is me iets meer duidelijk nu.quote:Op woensdag 25 juli 2012 23:16 schreef fusionfake het volgende:
[..]
Om je vraag kort te beantwoorden, ze haten baathisten die aan de macht kwamen en die vlag aannamen.
Lang antwoord:
-knip-
quote:Op woensdag 25 juli 2012 22:54 schreef Die_Hofstadtgruppe het volgende:
[..]
Jihadis uit Afghanistan, Somalie, Irak ed zijn wel 'een volksopstand'?
En in Libie NAVO bombardementen waren ook 'een volksopstand'?
Het begint erop te lijken dat zowel de jihadisten als de islamofoben buiten spel zijn gezet. Hoe lang ga je dit nog volhouden ?quote:"Libyas Defeated Islamists"
TRIPOLI – “We certainly did not expect the results, but...our future is certainly better than our present and our past,” said Sami al-Saadi, the former ideologue of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group and the founder of the political party al-Umma al-Wasat, which finished third in Central Tripoli during Libya’s recent parliamentary election. The man whom Taliban leader Mullah Omar once called the “Sheikh of the Arabs,” and who authored the LIFG’s anti-democracy manifesto The Choice is Theirs, accepted the apparent victory of Libya’s more liberal forces.
Indeed, the results raised eyebrows, even of those analysts who did not expect an Islamist landslide. In the electoral district that includes Derna, commonly viewed as an Islamist stronghold, the liberal-leaning National Forces Coalition (NFC), a grouping of more than 60 parties and hundreds of local civil-society organizations, won 59,769 votes, while the Justice and Construction Party (JCP) of the Muslim Brothers (MB) received only 8,619. The liberal-leaning Central National Trend (CNT) finished third, with 4,962 votes.
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphIn the impoverished western district of Abu Selim, where many Islamists are seen as local heroes due to their sacrifices under Colonel Muammar el-Qaddafi’s regime, the NFC swept the field with 60,052 votes, defeating all six Islamist parties, which received a combined total of less than 15,000 votes. Overall, liberal-leaning parties finished first in 11 of Libya’s 13 electoral districts, with the NFC winning ten and the CNT taking one.
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphTo be sure, the results will affect only 80 of the 200 seats in the constituent assembly, whose mandate is to appoint a prime minister, government, and a committee to draft the constitution. The other 120 seats are assigned to individual candidates, who are likely to be local notables, independents with strong tribal affiliations, and, to a lesser extent, a mix of Islamist and liberal politicians.
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphMoreover, while the Islamists were soundly defeated, they performed quite well in many districts. Across Libya, they took second place in ten districts (the JCP in nine and the Salafi-leaning Originality Coalition in one). In Misrata, the JCP finished second, after the local Union for Homeland Party, but still managed to win almost three times as many votes as the NFC, which came in fourth.
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphNevertheless, the question remains: what happened to the Islamists? They spearheaded the opposition to Qaddafi, were advised by their Tunisian and Egyptian brethren, and larded their rhetoric with religious symbolism in a conservative Muslim country. For many, however, this was not enough.
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphA striking difference between Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood and Tunisia’s Ennahda, on the one hand, and Libya’s Islamists on the other is the level of institutionalization and interaction with the masses. In Qaddafi’s four decades in power, Libya’s Islamists could not build local support networks; develop organizational structures, hierarchies, or institutions; or create a parallel system of clinics and social services, as their counterparts in Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, and Jordan were able to do.
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphAs a result, Libya’s Islamists could not unite in a coalition as large as that of Mahmoud Jibril, the former prime minister under the National Transitional Council, who heads the NFC. Instead, their votes were divided between several parties, six of which are significant.
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphBut another reason for the strong “liberal” turnout is the “blood” factor. “I am not giving my family’s votes to the MB. Two of my cousins died because of them,” Mohamed Abdul Hakim, a voter from Benghazi, told me. He agrees that Islam should be the source for legislation, and his wife wears a niqab. Nonetheless, he voted liberal: his cousins were killed in a confrontation in the 1990’s, most likely between the Martyrs Movement (a small jihadist group operating in his neighborhood at the time) and Qaddafi’s forces.
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphBut many average Libyans, including Hakim, do not distinguish between Islamist organizations and their histories. For them, all Islamists are “Ikhwan” (MB). The “stain” of direct involvement in armed action, coupled with fear of Taliban-like laws or a civil war like Algeria’s in the 1990’s harmed Islamists of all brands.
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphA third reason for the Islamists’ defeat had to do with their campaign rhetoric. “It is offensive to tell me that I have to vote for an Islamic party,” Jamila Marzouki, an Islamic studies graduate, told me. Marzouki voted liberal, despite believing that Islam should be the ultimate reference for Libyan laws. “In Libya, we are Muslims. They can’t take away my identity and claim that it’s only theirs.”
CommentsView/Create comment on this paragraphOthers factors had to do more with the liberal side. Jibril’s international legitimacy, his tribal affiliation (the Warfalla tribe includes about one million of Libya’s 6.4 million people), and leadership style, coupled with a broad coalition, served the country’s liberal forces well. So did a clever electoral campaign, which focused on incentives and hope (while also exaggerating the repercussions of an Islamist takeover).
The result was yet another paradox of the Arab Spring: a country that seemed to meet all of the conditions for an Islamist victory produced the sort of election results that liberals in Egypt and Tunisia could only dream about.
http://www.project-syndic(...)s-defeated-islamists
Euh.... hebben wij het over Syrië?quote:Op donderdag 26 juli 2012 18:36 schreef Die_Hofstadtgruppe het volgende:
Je weet dat de overgrote meerderheid der zetels nog gekozen moet worden hè?
En ik hoop dat ik het fout heb, maar ik betwijfel het. Maar goed we zullen zien.
Ligt eraan of het buitenland ze van wapens blijft voorzien.quote:Op donderdag 26 juli 2012 20:19 schreef Monidique het volgende:
"Men" verwacht dat in de loop van de komende twee dagen het tegenoffensief van de regering zal beginnen in Aleppo. In principe moeten ze de FSA kunnen verdrijven, maar dan hebben ze wéér schade opgelopen en moeten ze nóg meer gebied permanent bezetten. Een tank in Aleppo of Damascus is een tank minder in Homs of Daraa. Uiteindelijk bloedt het regime simpelweg dood.
Aan wie? De opstandelingen blijven materiële steun krijgen uit het buitenland, de overheid volgens mij niet zoveel, die maken gebruik van wat er al was.quote:Op donderdag 26 juli 2012 20:20 schreef Die_Hofstadtgruppe het volgende:
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Ligt eraan of het buitenland ze van wapens blijft voorzien.
Ik bedoelde dan ook de opstandelingen.quote:Op donderdag 26 juli 2012 20:22 schreef Monidique het volgende:
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Aan wie? De opstandelingen blijven materiële steun krijgen uit het buitenland, de overheid volgens mij niet zoveel, die maken gebruik van wat er al was.
Rusland en China blokkeren VN resoluties die dat mogelijk zouden kunnen maken.quote:Op vrijdag 27 juli 2012 14:19 schreef keepoww het volgende:
Ik snap niet waarom er niet internationaal wordt ingegrepen?
quote:http://www.guardian.co.uk(...)aleppo-massacre-live
4.40pm: Following the release of two journalists who were kidnapped in northern Syria (see 1.32pm), Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director of Human Rights Watch, has interviewed one of them – Dutch freelance photographer Jeroen Oerlemans.
Q You crossed from Turkey into Syria, where did things go wrong?
A We used a guide who we thought knew what he was doing, but halfway down the route he changed direction. There was a communication problem, he didn't speak any English. But he walked us straight into a jihadi training camp.
Q A jihadi training camp? Were the fighters from outside Syria, you think?
A Absolutely. There wasn't a Syrian present. They were all youngsters from other countries, African countries, Chechnya ...
Q And what did they want with you?
A At first, they said they just wanted to find out if we were indeed who we said we were, they said they thought we were CIA agents [inaudible]. But then it quickly became apparent they wanted to trade us for ransom.
Q And you tried to escape?
A Very unsuccesfully ... [laughs] We went towards ... we thought we had figured out a good escape route and thought we had found a quiet moment when almost nobody in the camp was paying attention to us. But they saw us almost right away running, and immediately the bullets were flying, and the big chase had begun. And 10 minutes later we were lying in our blood.
Q And then back to the camp? How did you finally manage to get out of there?
A There was a moment that we thought we would be disappeared, disappear from the radar screen, that they would take us to a place where no one would ever find us again. Like a place outside Syria, maybe Iraq, or to be handed over to another armed group. Just at that moment, a group of armed men came into the camp. We were blindfolded and bound, trying to wash our clothes at the time.
They stormed into our tent and started dressing down everyone. Why the hell we were being kept there, how long we had been kept there, why we were being treated this way.
Q And who was this?
A From what I know now, they were FSA, FSA soldiers. I don't know which faction. They managed to get intimidate the youth in the camp enough that they could take us out of the camp. Five minutes later they took us out of the camp while shooting [in the air I think]. And we were free.
Q The impression is created that the FSA is now in competition with foreign jihadis in this area, in its fight against Assad?
A Yes. Maybe in the short term they have the same aim, namely of overthrowing Assad and freeing Syria from a dictatorial regime. But where the FSA seems to be fighting for democracy, these foreign fighters don't want anything more than imposing Sharia on Syria. Syrians are pretty moderate Muslims in general, but they want to put them under the heavy boot of Sharia.
And that they [Syrians] wouldn't have much say in their own land, really.
Q You've just escaped, what are your plans for the coming days?
A I'm first going to let all of this settle in a bit, then I'm going home to see my family. And then I'll start thinking about the future.
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