Engeland heeft gewoon een klassen maatschappij, veel meer dan in NL.quote:Op woensdag 30 november 2011 22:11 schreef Bajskorv het volgende:
Begrijp me niet verkeerd, ik verbaas me al 8 jaar inmiddels over hoe gepolariseerd de Britse maatschappij is qua rijkdom.
Dat heeft deels met de geschiedenis te maken, maar het wordt enkel erger. Belastingen hier zijn erg sterk in het voordeel van rijke mensen, waardoor je weg kunt komen met een lichte belastingdruk als je genoeg geld hebt. Daarnaast is door privatisering van onderwijs en gezondheidszorg het steeds moeilijker geworden om uit de lagere klasse te ontsnappen, en worden steeds meer basisvoorzieningen voor de lagere klasse uitgekleed.quote:Op woensdag 30 november 2011 22:15 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
[..]
Engeland heeft gewoon een klassen maatschappij, veel meer dan in NL.
Genoeg Occupyers die heel veel weten. Ze weten ook dat globalisatie nagenoeg volledig is en dat we direct de gevolgen merken van gebeurtenissen aan de andere kant van de wereld. Daarom moeten demonstraties ook geglobaliseerd worden. En dat gebeurd nu.quote:Op woensdag 30 november 2011 22:19 schreef Bajskorv het volgende:
Ik denk dat de mensen van Occupy A'dam een keer in Engeland moeten komen kijken hoe een echte "99%" leeft.
Ach, als globalisatie echt zo hard gaat, zou Engeland geen zorg moeten zijn. Dan is India eerder een probleem, als je dat echt gelooft.quote:Op woensdag 30 november 2011 22:23 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
[..]
Genoeg Occupyers die heel veel weten. Ze weten ook dat globalisatie nagenoeg volledig is en dat we direct de gevolgen merken van gebeurtenissen aan de andere kant van de wereld. Daarom moeten demonstraties ook geglobaliseerd worden. En dat gebeurd nu.
Omdat je de keuze niet hebt bijvoorbeeld. Vanwege een crisis bijvoorbeeld.quote:Op woensdag 30 november 2011 22:27 schreef Bajskorv het volgende:
[..]
Ach, als globalisatie echt zo hard gaat, zou Engeland geen zorg moeten zijn. Dan is India eerder een probleem, als je dat echt gelooft.
Daarnaast zou je ook Zweden als voorbeeld kunnen nemen, of Duitsland - volgens mij functioneren die maatschappijen prima. Waarom zouden wij hen niet volgen en wel Engeland?
In NL is het slechter geworden.quote:Ik weet niet of het je is opgevallen, maar Nederland volgt die trend van polarisering niet echt.
quote:Occupy London's anger over police 'terrorism' document
A notice sent out to businesses in the City of London has listed the protest movement among groups such as al-Qaida and Farc
Police have angered Occupy London activists after listing the movement among terrorist groups in an advisory notice sent to the business community in the City.
The document issued by City of London police, headed "Terrorism/extremism update for the City of London business community", included a detailed account of recent and upcoming Occupy London activities and was sent to "trusted partners" in the area.
The document, dated 2 December, which was passed on to Occupy London's Finsbury square encampment over the weekend by a local business owner, gave an update on foreign terrorist activities including that of Farc in Columbia, al-Qaida in Pakistan and the outcome of a trial into the Minsk bombing in Belarus.
Below that, a section headed "Domestic" was dedicated wholly to the activities of the Occupy encampments and singled out anti-capitalists as a cause for concern.
"As the worldwide Occupy movement shows no sign of abating, it is likely that activists aspire to identify other locations to occupy, especially those they identify with capitalism."
The document stated that police had "received a number of hostile reconnaissance reports concerning individuals who would fit the anti-capitalist profile", and asked businesses to be vigilant for further sign of occupation activity.
It also said that the number of protesters present at the camp remained "fairly consistent" but that demonstrations originating from the camp had "decreased and lacked the support and momentum of earlier actions".
The City of London police have as yet been unwilling to reveal how many businesses were included on the mailing but their list is thought to include large multinationals and banks.
A City of London police source admitted that the "title of the document was not helpful" and denied that it labelled or intended to label the Occupy movement as equivalent to al-Qaida.
An activist from the camp called the document "vulgar" and said Occupy London had met Church of England representatives many times in the past and were meeting the Financial Services Authority, which regulates banking activity in the UK, on Monday.
A statement from the Occupy London camp said: "The reference to 'suspected activists' seems to demonstrate a disturbing loss of perspective.
"Activism is not a crime and the desire to participate in democratic decision-making should not be a cause for concern for the police in any free society.
"An institution that confuses active citizens with criminals and equates al-Qaida with efforts to re-imagine the City is an institution in grave danger of losing its way."
Asked about the document, the City of London police said their community policing methods had been praised.
A spokesman added: "City of London police works with the community to deter and detect terrorist activity and crime in the City in a way that has been identified nationally as good practice.
"We've seen crime linked to protests in recent weeks, notably around groups entering office buildings, and with that in mind we continue to brief key trusted partners on activity linked to protests."
quote:Birmingham University protest ban attacked as 'aggressive and censorious'
Human rights groups say injunction flies in face of British tradition of academic dissent and right to protest peacefully
UK human rights groups have condemned one of Britain's biggest universities for "criminalising" sit-in protests, describing the move as worrying, aggressive and censorious.
On Thursday it was reported that Birmingham University had obtained a high court injunction banning all occupation-style protests on its 250-acre campus for one year. The injunction prevents "persons unknown" from staging any "occupational-style protest" for 12 months unless they obtain prior written permission from university management.
Facing fines, seizure of assets and imprisonment for contempt of court if they break the order, the National Campaign Against Fees and Cuts say they are organising students from around the country to protest against the injunction on Brimingham's campus after the Christmas holiday.
The controversial move follows similar action from Sheffield University, which subsequently went back to court to have the order quashed after it faced outrage from its own students earlier this week.
A trend for higher education institutions to obtain court injunctions against protest appears to be forming after a third, Royal Holloway College in Surrey, also considered a similar order against protests, the Guardian has learned.
The college, which is part of London University, dropped its legal manoeuvre after occupying students quit the vice-chancellor's building on Thursday.
Amnesty International's UK campaigns director, Tim Hancock, said: "It is worrying that universities are attempting to curb the rights of their own students to make their views known with a blanket ban on protesting on campus without prior permission. The right to peacefully express views is one that we hold very dear in the UK and is one of the basic pillars of our society." Hancock said that limitations to protest should be proportionate, adding: "It would be wrong for those very people in power to be able to forbid protests because they find them a nuisance."
Sabina Frediani, campaigns co-ordinator for Liberty, said the move was aggressive. "The right to protest is a cornerstone of our democracy and this aggressive move hardly sits well with our best British traditions of academic dissent," she said.
"Universities should be places where ideas and opinions can be explored and they should be engaging with the students in their care – not criminalising them. How exactly will taking out court orders against protest encourage future applications from aspiring undergraduates?"
Index on Censorship also condemned Birmingham's move. Editor Jo Glanville said: "This move by the University of Birmingham shows a flagrant disregard for the principles of free expression and free assembly. Protests, including sit-ins, are legitimate parts of the political debate in this country. For any institution to attempt to pre-emptively ban protest severely impedes that debate. She added that it was an "unwarranted and censorious move".
A spokesman for Birmingham University said: "The high court injunction does not prevent any peaceful protest on campus, but specifically refers to the occupation of buildings on campus and in fact peaceful protests have continued to be held on campus since the injunction was taken out. The University of Birmingham believes that universities are places of free speech and continues to respect the rights of students and staff to protest peacefully and within the law. The high court injunction prohibiting occupation on campus was sought after a student occupation in November 2011 which raised significant safety issues."
A spokesman for Sheffield University said that it had withdrawn its own interim injunction, which placed a campus-wide ban on protests without prior permission on Tuesday. "The university took on board the concerns of representatives from the students' union regarding the wording in the injunction application which was interpreted as preventing protests across the whole of campus unless permission was granted by the university. The University of Sheffield fully supports freedom of speech and the right of students to express their views peacefully and within the law."
quote:Britse werkloosheid op hoogste niveau in 17 jaar
De werkloosheid in Groot-Brittannië is aan het einde van het derde kwartaal uitgekomen op het hoogste niveau in zeventien jaar. Met name vrouwen en jongeren hebben last van de banencrisis in het land. Dat blijkt uit cijfers van het Britse centraal bureau voor statistiek.
Eind oktober hadden 2,64 miljoen Britten geen baan. Dat is een stijging van 128 duizend ten opzichte van het tweede kwartaal. Sinds 1994 is de werkloosheid niet zo hoog geweest.
De Britse regering wordt stevig bekritiseerd over het stopzetten van stimuleringsprogramma's om jongeren aan een baan te helpen. Labour-leider Ed Milliband sprak van een 'verloren generatie' van mensen die geen baan kunnen vinden.
Minister van werkgelegenheid Chris Gayling reageerde ook op het rapport. Volgens hem zijn er ondanks de slechte cijfers tekens dat de arbeidsmarkt aan het stabiliseren is.
quote:OH COME TO XMAS RAVE AT ST PAUL'S!
PROTESTERS at St Paul’s Cathedral are planning to hold a two-week rave over Christmas.
They have vowed to party 24/7 as a legal bid to evict them gets under way.
Campers will offer live music and free food in their makeshift digs – including turkey on Christmas Day. Homeless people are being urged to join in as activists “throw open” their tents for a “big family bash”. It is seen as a parting shot of defiance as legal moves to evict the Occupy London group gather pace. Demonstrator Richard Trevan, 55, said: “We are going to have a party and throw it open to the homeless, to everyone. “At Christmas it’ll be inspirational – one big family celebrating.” The plan has been devised in the wake of claims that drug abuse, violence and binge-drinking have spiralled out of control at the camp.
City of London Corporation officials yesterday took their fight to remove the tent city to the High Court. As the likelihood of the protesters being forced to move grows, camp leaders are said to have accepted that their presence at the historic monument will have to be scaled down.
Around 150 people are still living at the anti-capitalist digs. Some want to end the main demo and simply leave a few scattered tents as a symbolic gesture. But spokesman Ronan McNern said they would not leave altogether, adding: “A symbolic tent would not be enough and I don’t think there’s any question of leaving completely.”
As the four-day hearing kicked off at the High Court, City counsel David Forsdick said the camp needed to go to “protect the rights of others”. He said: “The City is not bringing these claims to protect the banks, nor is it to prevent peaceable protest against the financial sector. “Nor is it bringing these claims to stifle freedom of speech. “It is bringing these claims solely to remove the semi-permanent protest camp because, after very careful consideration, it has concluded it is necessary to do so. “It is a pressing social need in order to protect the rights and freedoms of others.”
quote:The British public want business to put "people before profits" and to see politicians close the gap between rich and poor, according to a new survey.
The findings suggest growingsupport for "responsible capitalism" in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis and bankers' excessive bonuses – and public sympathy with the anti-globalisation protests such as the Occupy London camp outside St Paul'sCathedral.
quote:Britse overheid wil toegang tot e-mailverkeer van burger
De Britse overheid krijgt toegang tot informatie over het bel-, mail- en surfgedrag van haar burgers. Ook communicatie op sociale netwerksites als Facebook en Twitter komt ter beschikking te staan van de autoriteiten, voor zover ze al niet op gewone wijze kunnen meelezen.
Binnen de overheid leeft er zekere angst voor terreuraanslagen, zeker nu de Olympische Spelen voor de deur staan.
Een soortgelijke spionagewet was al in 2009 opgesteld door de toen regerende Labour Partij, maar die stuitte indertijd op teveel maatschappelijk verzet.
Opvallend is dat ook de huidige regeringspartijen - de Conservatieven en Liberaal-democraten - destijds felle kritiek uitten op dit voornemen en op andere privacygevoelige maatregelen van de Sociaal-democraten.
Een verschil is dat Labour de gegevens centraal wilde opslaan en dat de huidige regering de informatie laat beheren door de bedrijven zelf.
quote:
quote:More than 30,000 officers from all over the country march through the capital in the biggest demonstration by police ever held in England and Wales. They demanded that the government halt its cuts and 'privatisation' of the service in the only action they are legally entitled to take
quote:Britse politie verwacht opnieuw rellen in London
De Britse politie verwacht dat er deze zomer net als vorig jaar rellen uitbreken, en dat de politie door bezuinigingen dergelijke rellen niet adequaat zal kunnen aanpakken. Dat blijkt uit onderzoek onder Britse agenten.
In het noorden van Londen braken vorig jaar op 8 augustus rellen uit. De vier daaropvolgende nachten bleef het zeer onrustig in Londen en andere Engelse steden. De relschoppers roofden winkels leeg en vernielden auto's.
Voor het onderzoek, dat werd uitgevoerd door de London School of Economics en de krant The Guardian, vulden agenten een vragenlijst in. Daarin gaven ze aan dat een herhaling van vorig jaar waarschijnlijk is vanwege verslechterde economische en sociale omstandigheden.
In totaal werden 130 agenten van acht verschillende politiekorpsen geïnterviewd. Bijna alle agenten zeiden dat de rellen van vorig jaar de grootste fysieke en mentale uitdaging van hun carrière was.
Vooral groot succes voor de machthebbers, die via de verkiezingen de massa steeds verder op de hand weten te krijgen.quote:Op zondag 27 maart 2011 22:51 schreef betyar het volgende:
Wegens groot succes van het Midden-Oosten subforum, wordt het misschien tijd voor demonstraties in Europa.
quote:Glastonbury festival: how police spied on political campaigners
Stallholders' details logged in database, documents reveal as criticism mounts over surveillance operations against activists
Police carried out surveillance on political campaigners while they were at the Glastonbury Festival, newly released documents show.
Details of their activities were recorded in a clandestine database run by the secretive police operation which has infiltrated a network of spies into political groups for 40 years.
Police logged how the campaigners had set up a stall at the festival and were selling what police termed "political publications and merchandise of an XLW anti-capitalist nature". The letters XLW are understood to mean "extreme left-wing".
They were mainly selling T-shirts and badges, along with DVDs and books. The police officers also recorded the home address and mobile phone number of the campaigner who had booked the stall.
The campaigners had been in the Green Fields, a special area – described as "the soul" of the festival – which hosts stalls and speakers on political ideas.
Disclosure of the documents comes as police have faced criticism over the intrusiveness and scale of their surveillance operations against political campaigners following revelations about the activities of nine undercover officers.
Simon Wellings, one of the undercover officers who has been unmasked, infiltrated the anti-capitalist group which was spied on at Glastonbury.
Evidence of the surveillance has been obtained by Guy Taylor, a 45-year-old activist working for the group, Globalise Resistance, following a request under the data protection act.
He obtained his file from the database which shows that police identified his presence at 27 demonstrations for causes such as anti-racism, opposition to the Iraq War and climate change between 2006 and 2011. One entry records how "Globalise Resistance had a campaigns stall at the Glastonbury Festival" in 2009 and that "this stall was selling political publications and merchandise of a XLW anti-capitalist nature".
Police had established that it was Taylor who gained approval from the festival organisers to set up the stall.
Taylor said: "I can't understand what use information about what I did at Glastonbury has for the Metropolitan police.
"If they need to know the plans and schemes of anti-capitalists, the worst place to look is Glastonbury as we were rarely in a fit state to plan the downfall of a parish council let alone the world financial system as we know it."
The Green Fields, described by Glastonbury organisers as encapsulating the "spirits and ideals" of the original festival, is home each year to an eclectic mix of activities including environmental initiatives, tipis, massages and solar-powered marquees. Taylor, has a conviction dating from 1991 for spray-painting anti-war slogans, is one of thousands of campaigners whose political activities have been recorded covertly on the database since 1999 and shared with police forces across the country.
The database, currently run by the Metropolitan police, contains information from undercover officers, informants in protest groups, covert intercepts and reports of demonstrations from uniformed officers.
Another activist on the database is John Catt, an 87-year-old campaigner with no criminal record. Police recorded how he attended more than 55 demonstrations over a four-year period, detailing how he brought along his sketchpad and made drawings of protests.
The Metropolitan police said it was not prepared to "discuss individual cases nor the provenance of information held on police databases".
A spokesman added: "The Management of Police Information (MOPI) statutory code of practice provides a clear framework for the collation and retention of information for policing purposes. The National Domestic Extremism Unit (NDEU) database is maintained according to this code of practice.
"The retention and collation of intelligence reports – carried out in accordance with the appropriate statutory codes of practice – is vital enabling us to fulfil our obligations of protecting life and property, preserving order, preventing the commission of offences, and bringing offenders to justice".
He said this "important principle" was upheld when the high court recently dismissed an application by Catt to have his file deleted from the database.
Last year, Newsnight reported that Wellings's real role was revealed following a blunder. He inadvertently phoned a campaigner from the Global Resistance group on his mobile phone while analysing photographs of protesters with a police officer at a police station.
quote:Riot murder trial judge ordered BBC not to broadcast documentaries
Judge in trial of eight men over Birmingham riot deaths said films raised issues that 'echoed' arguments put before jury
A judge prevented the BBC from broadcasting two documentaries about last summer's riots without having watched the films – and later prevented the media from reporting his injunction.
Mr Justice Flaux, who was presiding over the murder trial of eight men who were acquitted at Birmingham crown court on Thursday, made the injunction on the grounds that the film raised issues which "echoed" arguments put before his jury.
He used an unusual power under section 45 of the Senior Courts Act 1981, which in some circumstances grants crown court judges the same powers as those used by the high court, to prevent the film from being broadcast.
On Wednesday, the BBC and Guardian and sought to challenge the ruling, on the grounds that the films made no reference to the case being considered by the jury and did not even mention rioting in Birmingham.
They also argued that under section 5 of the Contempt Court Act a publication made as or as part of a discussion in good faith of public affairs or other matters of general public interest "is not to be treated as a contempt of court … if the risk of impediment or prejudice to particular legal proceedings is merely incidental to the discussion".
However, the judge rejected the appeal, saying the films touched on issues related to his case, and if he were to allow the films to be broadcast, jurors could potentially have "social contact" with others who watched the programmes.
He also issued a second order, under section 4 (2) of the Contempt of Court Act 1981, which barred media organisations from reporting the injunction.
However, the end of the trial rendered both orders redundant.
The first documentary in the series The Riots: In their own Words, which had been scheduled for broadcast on Monday at 9pm, was a verbatim drama, based on extracts from anonymous interviews with rioters conducted by the Guardian and London School of Economics study, Reading the Riots.
The script for the film was produced by the award-winning playwright Alecky Blythe and the rioters are played by actors.
The second film, which had been due for broadcast on Wednesday, was a more conventional documentary format, with police officers talking about their experiences policing the riots.
The ruling caused a major headache for BBC executives, who had carefully timed the broadcast of the films to coincide with next month's anniversary of the riots, while trying to avoid a clash Olympics coverage. It is not clear when the films will be shown, although the corporation has said they will be aired "at a later date".
Flaux's ruling initially meant media were unable to report details such as his name, his court, or the case he was presiding over, although it considered possible to report that an order had been made preventing the BBC films from being broadcast.
Later, the media was effectively barred from reporting the issue altogether. The move led to widespread rumour on Twitter, amid concern that a film could be pulled from the BBC's schedule by an unnamed judge without explanation.
Kirsty Hughes, the chief executive of Index on Censorship, described the ruling as "disturbing". "Censoring television programmes is not in any way helpful to our understanding of the important issues and factors underlying the disturbances," she said.
Justice Flaux initially released his injunction on Monday, without having seen either of the films of having any detailed knowledge of their content.
A defence barrister alerted the judge to the films, suggesting that although they may not contain any references to Birmingham, the judge may want to take action out of "an abundance of caution".
The BBC was told about the injunction just hours before the broadcast, and tried unsuccessfully to appeal via telephone conference.
On Wednesday, the BBC made a formal challenge to the ruling, which was supported by counsel from the Guardian.
Rejecting the arguments brought by the media organisations, the judge said that although he had not watched the films, he had read part of the transcripts and seen a two-minute clip on the BBC website.
He added that in the first film, the testimony from rioters in the first programme was similar to allegations raised by prosecution in the trial of the eight men.
He gave the examples of actors talking about the "adrenaline rush" experienced during the riots, taking revenge against police and bricks being thrown at cars – all issues raised during the trial. He said there were also issues in the second film, such as police officers talking about how rioters used BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) to communicate.
The two-part film was "literally littered" with potentially prejudicial commentary that could derail the 12-week trial, Flaux claimed.
In a pointed exchange, counsel for the eight defendants said they would have made an application to discharge the jury if the BBC films had been broadcast as planned on Monday and Wednesday.
"These programmes were potentially extremely prejudicial," Flaux said. "In my very clear judgment the continuation of the order – which, it has rightly been pointed out, is an injunction – that I made on Monday is the only necessary and proportionate remedy.
"If the BBC were to broadcast now, when the jury has already gone out, there would be a serious risk that this trial and the course of justice would be prejudiced."
He repeatedly described the BBC as "irresponsible" for attempting to overturn the order, and described as "complete and utter nonsense" any suggestion he had issued a "worldwide gagging order".
Heather Rogers QC, for the BBC, questioned whether a unilateral ban on the films was necessary and proportionate. She suggested a more reasonable measure would be to warn jurors not to watch the films, but allow them to be broadcast as planned.
However, Flaux dismissed this as "completely unreal", adding that jurors could be alerted to the content of the films through social contact with friends. He said it was "absolutely staggering" that the BBC sought further clarification on the reasons for the ban.
The judge's reasoning behind the ban appeared to suggest that any general reporting of the unrest in England, including references to the mood of rioters, their experiences or their use of social network technologies, was likely to be seen as potentially prejudicial to the trial.
Flaux described the trial as the most high-profile since the disorder last August. He said the interests in ensuring justice "outweigh" the interests in not broadcasting the programme.
A spokesperson for the broadcaster said, "The BBC was of the firm view that as the programmes did not contain any reference to the incident which was the subject of the trial their broadcast could not have affected the trial's outcome."
"As makers of current affairs programmes we felt this was a critical point regarding the freedom of the media to discuss matters that are of general public interest. We were disappointed by the Judge's ruling which prevented the programmes from being broadcast until the jury returned its verdicts. Now that has happened, we are pleased to be able to show the programmes. "
quote:Mass arrests at monthly cycling event in London on Olympic ceremony night (VIDEO, PHOTOS)
London police used pepper spray and kettling tactics against “Critical Mass” cycle ride participants as the British capital held the opening ceremony of the 2012 Summer Games. At least 50 people have reportedly been detained.
Scuffles occurred near the Olympic Stadium on the outskirts of the Olympic Park, with participants saying they were being “kettled” or corralled. Some witnesses said police pushed the cyclists aside to get David Beckham through traffic.
A witness video uploaded to YouTube allegedly showed police assaulting and pepper-spraying a disabled man on a tricycle.
The frantaag user who uploaded a similar video has written this account: “In the early stages of the Monthly Critical mass Bike ride a British Transport Police Officer PepperSprayed a Disabled Man in a shoprider who had been apparently hit by a car along with several others [sic].”
The user added that a female police medic attempted to stop the action, but was struck back and the officer sprayed the disabled man and most the crowd. He then whipped out his telescopic truncheon and tried to apply a neck lock on the disabled man using the truncheon.
The disabled man has been arrested. The British Transport Cop was finally led away by some other officers.
"A number of people in breach of regulations imposed on a monthly cycling event have been arrested,"a spokesman for Scotland Yard said.
However there are conflicting reports on the numbers of those arrested. According to some, at least 50 people have been detained and their bicycles loaded on to special buses parked nearby. Others say more than 100 people have been arrested.
The cyclists were members of a monthly cycling event called "Critical Mass", held on the last Friday of every month all around the world. The ride participants usually meet at a set location and time, and travel as a group through city or town streets on bikes.
But a police order had prohibited the London group from traveling into the Olympic Park area in the east of the capital during Friday night's opening ceremony.
The police released a statement in which they said the conditions imposed on the ride had been put in place "to prevent serious disruption to the community and the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games."
Earlier there were reportedly calls on the internet to stage the London ride on July 27 as an anti-Olympics protest.
The Metropolitan Police said they had made arrests for Public Order offences.
Live op The Guardianquote:Trade unions march against cuts
Trade unionists march against government cuts in London, Glasgow and Belfast
De modale Brit zou een moord doen voor de rijkdom die de model Nederlander geniet. Niet vreemd dat ze dus klagen, ze hebben het behoorlijk wat slechter.quote:Op zondag 21 oktober 2012 14:13 schreef sunny16947 het volgende:
En wij Nederlanders laten ons alles door de strot duwen. Iedereen klaagt vanaf zijn toetsenbord maar doet niks. En als mensen dan initiatief nemen om de burgers te mobiliseren wordt het in de kiem gesmoord door de MSM en zelfs op Fok. Zelfs strijden voor meer democratie is not done. Dan sluit je het topic gewoon als zijnde spam. pffff Stop met klagen en sluit je aan!!
Dus moeten we wachten tot ze hier ons alles ontnemen en we het net zo slecht hebben als in andere landen?quote:Op zondag 21 oktober 2012 14:17 schreef Bajskorv het volgende:
[..]
De modale Brit zou een moord doen voor de rijkdom die de model Nederlander geniet. Niet vreemd dat ze dus klagen, ze hebben het behoorlijk wat slechter.
Wat ontnemen ze ons? De Nederland heeft gewoon jaren op te grote voet geleefd, en nu moeten we het even wat terugdraaien. Lijkt me niet zo'n ramp, we hebben het goed genoeg.quote:Op zondag 21 oktober 2012 14:51 schreef sunny16947 het volgende:
[..]
Dus moeten we wachten tot ze hier ons alles ontnemen en we het net zo slecht hebben als in andere landen?
Hé, deja-vu! Dat zeiden ze ook tegen de Grieken.quote:Op zondag 21 oktober 2012 17:23 schreef Bajskorv het volgende:
[..]
Wat ontnemen ze ons? De Nederland heeft gewoon jaren op te grote voet geleefd,
Oh ja, we moeten nu al een revolutie starten omdat we het zo slecht gaan krijgen. Mogelijk. Over behoorlijk wat jaar.quote:Op zondag 21 oktober 2012 22:20 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
[..]
Hé, deja-vu! Dat zeiden ze ook tegen de Grieken.
|
Forum Opties | |
---|---|
Forumhop: | |
Hop naar: |