quote:Op woensdag 23 juni 2010 15:24 schreef Hellas2009 het volgende:
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De Koerden worden niet erkend als minderheid: ze bestaan niet voor de grondwet.
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Iran erkent de Koerden wel:
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Irak erkent de Koerden wel en Koerdisch is een officiële taal.
In Syrië zijn er veel Koerden statenloos:
Syria: End Persecution of Kurds
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/11/26/syria-end-persecution-kurds
quote:Op woensdag 23 juni 2010 14:09 schreef zarGon het volgende:
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En wat is jouw afkomst eigenlijk, Hellas? Hm?
Mijn ervaring met veel Turken is dat als het op Koerden aankomt ze zelf geïndoctrineerd zijn en de waarheid niet kennen. De vaderlandse geschiedenis van de Turken, gedicteerd door de staat, is zeer onvolledig.quote:Op woensdag 23 juni 2010 15:21 schreef GenusButeo het volgende:
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Voor deze geïndoctrineerde Koerden is het nooit goed. TRT 6 werd ook onthaald met leuzen als 'Turks propaganda'!
Het is 1000 jaar terug veroverd door de Turken, en daarmee Turks. Net zoals Bulgarije, een land dat ook door een volk met Centraal-Aziatische roots is veroverd. Ik hoor niemand klagen over hen? En vergeet de Australiërs, Amerikanen, Spanjaarden (Basken-kwestie) en alle andere volken die niet meer de baas zijn in hun 'eigen' gebied niet.quote:Op woensdag 23 juni 2010 15:15 schreef Hellas2009 het volgende:
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Nou dan, wat lullen de Turken dan slap dat het zogenaamd niet het land van de Koerden is maar van de Turkse onderdrukkers.
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Het was een religieus-fascistisch Rijk.
Ik geloof je simpelweg niet. Kan je precies citeren waar in de Turkse grondwet dit staat? Dan wil ik het best opzoeken en deze bewering onderuit halen. Al te graag.quote:Op woensdag 23 juni 2010 15:24 schreef Hellas2009 het volgende:
[..]
De Koerden worden niet erkend als minderheid: ze bestaan niet voor de grondwet.
[..]
Iran erkent de Koerden wel:
[..]
Irak erkent de Koerden wel en Koerdisch is een officiële taal.
In Syrië zijn er veel Koerden statenloos:
Syria: End Persecution of Kurds
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/11/26/syria-end-persecution-kurds
Het is een same-same-situatie. Beide partijen worden geïndoctrineerd.quote:Op woensdag 23 juni 2010 15:25 schreef GrotePierFR het volgende:
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Mijn ervaring met veel Turken is dat als het op Koerden aankomt ze zelf geïndoctrineerd zijn en de waarheid niet kennen. De vaderlandse geschiedenis van de Turken, gedicteerd door de staat, is zeer onvolledig.
De waarheid kun je zelf opzoeken als je de moeite doet en gaat graven in goede journalistieke bronnen (Robert Fisk bijvoorbeeld).
Ga dit boek bijvoorbeeld eens lezen, heel informatief. Als je tenminste bereid bent borden voor je hoofd weg te halen.
[ afbeelding ]
Dit is een quote uit dit stuk: Arameeers, Assyriers en de PKKquote:In 2000 maakte de actualiteitsrubriek van de EO RADAR een programma over de dorpen in Hassana waarin Dominee Mete uit Wierden meeging naar het Zuid-Oosten van Turkije om zijn platgebombardeerde dorpen te bezoeken. Hij mocht de dorpen niet in. In het reportage van de EO, onder leiding van de heer A. Lock, werd de Turkse staat flink op de korrel genomen. Er werd met geen woord gerept over de jongeren uit de dorpen van meneer Mete die aan de activiteiten van de PKK deelnamen. Dominee Mete die zich voordeed als man Gods "vergat" om te vertellen dat hij medeschuldig was aan het opblazen van deze dorpen door het Turkse leger. Hij en zijn geloofsgenoten hadden hun kinderen niet moeten laten deelnemen aan de activiteiten van de PKK. De Turken hadden dan geen enkel excuses gehad om de dorpen op te blazen. Maar niet alleen dat, het is een antichristelijke daad waar figuren als Mete (en zijn geloofsgenoten) kennelijk niet stil bijstaan om te begrijpen dat je als Christenen je schoon dient te houden van dergelijke onfrisse zaken. Ze staan echter graag klaar om te janken en anderen in hun gezicht te spugen, maar kijken nooit naar zichzelf en onderwerpen zichzelf aan geen enkel onderzoek om te kijken of hun gedrag wel juist is.
Over "..goede journalistieke bronnen (Robert Fisk bijvoorbeeld)." wil ik volgende opmerken.quote:Op woensdag 23 juni 2010 15:25 schreef GrotePierFR het volgende:
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Mijn ervaring met veel Turken is dat als het op Koerden aankomt ze zelf geïndoctrineerd zijn en de waarheid niet kennen. De vaderlandse geschiedenis van de Turken, gedicteerd door de staat, is zeer onvolledig.
De waarheid kun je zelf opzoeken als je de moeite doet en gaat graven in goede journalistieke bronnen (Robert Fisk bijvoorbeeld).
Ga dit boek bijvoorbeeld eens lezen, heel informatief. Als je tenminste bereid bent borden voor je hoofd weg te halen.
[ afbeelding ]
quote:The term refers to Robert Fisk, a journalist who wrote some rather foolish anti-war stuff, and who in particular wrote a story in which he (1) recounted how he was beaten by some anti-American Afghan refugees, and (2) thought they were morally right for doing so. Hence many pro-war blogs -- most famously, InstaPundit -- often use the term "Fisking" figuratively to mean a thorough and forceful verbal beating of an anti-war, possibly anti-American, commentator who has richly earned this figurative beating through his words. Good Fisking tends to be (or at least aim to be) quite logical, and often quotes the other article in detail, interspersing criticisms with the original article's text.
Haatzaaiers.quote:We are told that there is a difference between extremist Islam and peaceloving normal Islam.
Judging by their behavior, Muslims are anti-West, anti-Democracy, anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-Buddhist, and anti-Hindu. Muslims are involved in 25 of some 30 conflicts going on in the world: in Afghanistan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Congo, Cote d'Ivoire, Cyprus, East Timor, India, Indonesia (2 provinces), Kashmir, Kazakastan, Kosovo, Kurdistan, Macedonia, the Middle East, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Somalia, Sudan, Russia-Chechnya, Tajikistan, Thailand, Uganda and Uzbekistan.
Doesn't this mean that extremist Islam is the norm and normal Islam is extremely rare?
Weet je? Ik zie de gekste bronnen in het blokkade topic rondzwerven. Moest ook gewoon kunnen, dus waarom deze niet? Ik geloof echt niet meteen alles.quote:Op woensdag 23 juni 2010 17:09 schreef Baghdaddy het volgende:
De bronnen die gepost worden hier worden steeds objectiever ja haha.
Bullshit en holle retoriek, geen woorden maar daden etc.quote:Op donderdag 24 juni 2010 16:22 schreef Burakius het volgende:
Koerden en Turken zijn broeders en niemand moet ons uit elkaar halen.
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/06/24/turkeys-deception/quote:Turkey’s Deception
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s self-righteous proclamations in defense of the Palestinian Islamist terrorist group Hamas — (i.e. “Hamas is not a terrorist group,” “Hamas are resistance fighters who are struggling to defend their land, and they have won an election,” etc.) — are glaringly hypocritical and in accord with his Islamist ideological bent. Erdogan has become sufficiently confident in the wake of his July 2007 electoral victory. His Justice and Development party, known as AKP, received 47% of the vote, enabling him to form a single-party government, and he has since sought to forge an Islamic agenda for Turkey. His actions reveal his intent to lead the Arab and Muslim East while gambling that the Obama administration and the European Union will ignore his Islamist rhetoric and his increasingly radical actions. Aside from becoming a champion of Hamas, he is charting a course towards a revival of Ottoman hegemony by restoring the seat and center of the Caliphate.
The United Arab Emirate-based online news source, The National, reported on June 15, 2010, that “Turkey embarked on the road to a ‘Middle East Union’ as an alternative to the European Union.” The National quoted from a front page article that appeared in the Turkish daily Milliyet regarding the signing of a free-trade agreement between Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan.
A speech given by President Obama before the Turkish parliament in April 2009, during which Obama declared, “Let me say this as clearly as I can: the United States is not and will never be at war with Islam,” encouraged Erdogan to ramp up his efforts. Erdogan, no doubt, is also counting on the European lack of moral courage. As such, he was able to provoke a crisis with Israel by funding and indirectly arming the flotilla that sought to break Israel’s blockade of Gaza, and essentially call for jihad against Israel. Neither Obama nor the Europeans have rebuked him for his repeated egregious behavior. Moreover, Erdogan has derived a backwind from the vacuum created by the perception of weakness of the Obama administration, coupled with Obama’s toughness against Israel – the only democratic ally in the region – rather than towards Iran.
While Hamas has been pitied and cuddled by Obama, the Europeans, the UN, and human rights organizations, there has been no condemnation of the Turkish regime (nor, for that matter, against the Islamic Republic of Iran) by the US and the West for the continued war on the Kurdish people in Turkey, Iran, and Iraqi Kurdistan. According to a CNN-TV December 19, 2007 report, “the US helped in attack on PKK.” The ostensible reason for the war against the Kurdish people is the Kurdistan Workers Party’s (PKK) terrorism. Neither the Western powers nor the UN ever took Turkey to task over the lives of thousands of innocent Kurds killed in the process. And while the PKK might have used guerilla warfare against the Turkish authorities, unlike Hamas, it rarely employed suicide bombers or attacked civilians. The double-standard is apparent, Saudi petro-dollars helped to smooth the Arab-Palestinian image while overlooking its jihadist nature. At the same time, the friendless Kurds have no petro-dollar patrons to count on.
Western hypocrisy is quite apparent. While Hamas (1.2 million Palestinians) openly opposes Israel’s existence and has been dedicated, since its inception and as stated in its Charter, to the destruction of the Jewish State through war and terrorism, the PKK has been fighting Turkey since 1984. Initially they demanded a separate state for Turkey’s approximately 15-20 million Kurds, and later, were will to compromise and moderate their demands to cultural and political rights for Kurds. Hamas has received funds from EU countries and material support from EU based Non-Governmental Organizations. The British daily newspaper, The Independent, reported back on February 19, 2009 that “Europe began covert talks with Hamas.” No such privileges were accorded to the PKK or the persecuted Kurds of Iran, Syria, and Turkey. According to the Sabah-English edition of June 12, 2010, “Europe began staging war on PKK.” New provisions of EU anti-terrorism laws state that PKK terrorists residing in European nations will be extradited, and that Turkish police officers will receive special training on the extradition of terrorists. In addition, the EU Border Protection Agency (Frontex) is stepping in to curtail the PKK’s financial resources. Will the EU use the same parameters to deal with Hamas?
In using Erdogan’s logic that Hamas deserves recognition because it won the 2006 elections, the pro-Kurdish Democratic Society Party (DTP) deserves equal recognition following its successful showing in the 2009 local Turkish elections. The DTP gained overwhelming support in the Kurdish areas of Turkey, and came a close second behind the ruling AKP. And while Israel did not interfere or prevent Hamas from taking part in the 2006 elections and select their own representatives, despite Hamas’s unwillingness to renounce terrorism and recognize Israel, Erdogan proceeded to ban the DTP, charging that it constituted “a focal point of terrorism.” In addition to banning the DTP, Erdogan’s government imprisoned dozens of DTP members, and banned its leaders from political activities for five years. The Kurds in Turkey then reorganized their party under a new name, the “Peace and Democracy Party” (BDP), and once again, the Erdogan government harassed and imprisoned the BDP members while trying to ban the new party from running in upcoming elections.
Erdogan’s Turkey has refused to accept legitimate pro-Kurdish parties or accept the PKK as a key player in solving the Kurdish question, despite a number of unilateral ceasefires declared by the PKK since the 1990s, which Turkey ignored. Erdogan is demanding that PKK fighters surrender or die. Both Erdogan and Hamas have rejected compromise.
It is time to challenge Erdogan’s hypocritical stand, and it must come from the West, which has for too long colluded with this Turkish Islamist regime and the Islamic terrorist group Hamas. The West is employing a dangerous double-standard when it comes to Israel and the PKK.
Ik voorspel snel een slotje met Hellas.quote:
19 uit 21 mensen = 90% militaire doden en die twee zaten in een militaire bus, niet slecht voor een "terreur"organisatie.quote:Op vrijdag 25 juni 2010 10:14 schreef Haradrim het volgende:
Members of an outlawed terrorist organization killed two Turkish soldiers and a civilian and wounded six other people, including three civilians, in an attack late Thursday on a military outpost in eastern Turkey, Turkish media reported.
The terrorists attacked a patrol and the outpost not far away in a rural area in the province of Elazığ, the Anatolia news agency and broadcaster NTV said.
The Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, has dramatically stepped up violence this month, threatening to spread its attacks outside of the country's Southeast, its main area of operation.
PKK attacks have claimed the lives of 19 soldiers and two civilians since last weekend.
quote:Op vrijdag 25 juni 2010 11:50 schreef Hellas2009 het volgende:
De PKK strijdt voor de rechten van de onderdrukte Koerden in Turkije. Wat willen jullie nou, dat ze hun strijd gaan staken omdat jullie de toerist willen uithangen in Turkije?
Allereerst, lelijke topictitel.quote:Op vrijdag 25 juni 2010 14:04 schreef paddy het volgende:
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Wat is dat voor onzin? Ik vind elke aanslag bewust gericht op onschuldige burgers belachelijk. Dus jij vindt het normaal dat ik een aanslag op jou en je gezin pleeg omdat ik het niet eens ben met de Nederlandse regering? (of de regring waar jij woont)
Mijn zoon gaat met zijn vriendin dus naar één van die oorden. Hij is jong en vond het al belachelijk dat ik mij zorgen maakte omdat zijn naam Geert is, en dus bang was voor een doorgedraaide die in elke Geert Geert Wilders zag.
Nu komt dit gedoe er nog bij. Zal mijn overbezorgdheid wel zijn, maar ik zal blij zijn wanneer hij en zijn vriendin weer thuis zijn. en ze zijn nog niet eens vertrokken
http://www.vancouversun.c(...)s/3198975/story.htmlquote:Turkish PM sides with Hamas, but kills so-called Kurdish terrorists
Erdogan committed to moving country away from well-established links to the West as he promotes increasingly puritanical view of Islam.
By Jonathan Manthorpe, Vancouver Sun
It is often a symptom of the affliction that hypocrites are blind to their own hypocrisy.
So there was no hint of self-critical irony on Thursday when Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan issued a blistering attack on European countries for failing to support his war against separatist Kurdish rebels.
"Despite bloody attacks against civilians and security forces [in Turkey], there are countries which have failed to cut the financial channels of the terrorist organization, turning a blind eye to its activities and propaganda, and failed to extradite criminals," Erdogan said. He was referring, of course, to the Kurdish Workers' Party known as the PKK, which represents many Kurds living in southeastern Turkey, northern Iraq and northwestern Iran and which has been fighting for a homeland since 1984.
Erdogan's outburst followed a bomb attack on a bus in Istanbul on Tuesday that killed four soldiers and a teenage girl.
This followed a series of attacks in the last two months by the Turkish air force and army commandos on PKK camps in northern Iraq. The Turkish military says it killed more than 120 rebels and lost 42 of its own troops.
These attacks marked the end of a much-trumpeted, but feebly implemented, effort by the Erdogan government to find a lasting settlement with Kurds.
What is so striking about Erdogan's words and actions is that they are being played out at the same time as he is railing against Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip, aimed at stopping arms getting to the territory's ruling clique, Hamas, to use against Israeli civilians.
And his bluster against Europe for failing to support him against the PKK, which the European Union recognizes as a terrorist organization, sits uncomfortably beside Erdogan's clear support and perhaps prior approval of the dispatch last month of a so-called relief flotilla from Turkey to Gaza.
The Turkish organizers of the flotilla, the Humanitarian Relief Fund known as IHH, has documented links to terrorist groups, and Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by most western counties.
Erdogan's antics have led to a sharp fissure in Turkey's relations with Israel, which were both diplomatically and militarily close; to calls from conservatives in the United States for Turkey, the only predominantly Muslim member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, to be expelled from the alliance; and to the lessening of Turkey's already shrinking chances of joining the European Union.
But Erdogan seems committed to moving Turkey away from its well-established links with the West as he promotes increasingly puritanical views of Islam within Turkey and appears bent on trying to make his country an overtly influential player in the Middle East.
Erdogan's melodramatic outrage when nine Turkish IHH members were killed after they attacked Israeli commandos who stopped the main Gaza convoy ship, the Mavi Marmara, initially won him much support at home and in Arab countries.
But that appears to have quickly eroded in some significant areas.
Media and commentators in the Middle East, where there are still unhappy memories of Turkey's Ottoman Empire, are beginning to question whether the Ankara government is a suitable alternative voice on a stage increasingly dominated by Iran.
For many Arabs, the main ethnic group of the Middle East, having the Persians of Iran and the Turks squabbling to be their champions presents an unappetizing choice.
And at home two recent polls show a sharp rise to over 30 per cent of Turks supporting the opposition Republican People's Party, a centre-left alliance known by its Turkish initials CHP that appeals to the urban middle class and white-collar workers and which holds strongly to Turkey's traditional secularism under military guardianship.
This still puts Erdogan's Justice and Democracy Party, in power since 2003, ahead with nearly 39 per cent support. Elections are due next year.
So far the up-tick in support for the CHP is a result of its realignment under the new leadership of Kemal Kilicdaroglu, who took over last month after previous leader Deniz Baykal resigned over a sex scandal.
But the CHP is one of Turkey's oldest and most experienced political parties. Erdogan will have to fight for political survival with a good deal more sophistication than he has shown recently.
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