Misdaad
Een forum voor onopgeloste misdaden en macabere zaken uit het verleden.
Well why not just call it widespread corruption? That shouldnt be that hard to imagine. It happens all the time, you can read about it every day. People in influential positions abusing their powers. Cover-ups happen.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 15:16 schreef Qwea het volgende:
yeah, well... I don't know.
This whole cover up story goes a little to far for me.
It reminds me on 9/11. " Yeah bush gov did 9/11!!!!!!" Why has there always be a conspiracy theory behind everything.
To dismiss a possible cover-up beforehand, because of a "Why has there always be a conspiracy theory behind everything"-attitude would just be foolish.
It's foolish to believe that behind everything is a cover up.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 15:55 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
[..]
Well why not just call it widespread corruption? That shouldnt be that hard to imagine. It happens all the time, you can read about it every day. People in influential positions abusing their powers. Cover-ups happen.
To dismiss a possible cover-up beforehand, because of a "Why has there always be a conspiracy theory behind everything"-attitude would just be foolish.
Corruption, fine. But I won't believe that this is a cover up. Same as I won' believe that 9/11 was a cover up.
Goddamn, something in the world happens, and the first thing people are saying ; " AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH COVERUP!!!!!!!! The government is lying to us!!!!!!!"
Get a grip. If this is really a coverup, do you have any idea how many people are involved? Do you really think that all of those people will keep there mouth shut? Yeah? Well, I don't.
My partner made a topic this week about conspiracy theorist. I think he's right.
-||||-----||||- Iron and me, we're meant to be -||||-----||||-
That 'Lyson kitchen spray' that was found in the area where the vcb shirt was found.
Can it only be bought in the U.S., canada and puerto rico?
Can it only be bought in the U.S., canada and puerto rico?
wednesday Peter R. de Vries and Beth Twitty on ScaredMonkeysRadio.
i don't know what time, maybe thursday morning dutch time.
http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/
Peter R. de Vries op ScaredMonkeyRadio
[ Bericht 10% gewijzigd door Caesu op 12-02-2008 18:42:50 ]
i don't know what time, maybe thursday morning dutch time.
http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/
Peter R. de Vries op ScaredMonkeyRadio
[ Bericht 10% gewijzigd door Caesu op 12-02-2008 18:42:50 ]
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Als op de foto duidelijk te zien was dat het een arm was, kan die foto dan niet beter worden opgestuurd naar een forensisch instituut?quote:Ook kan Mansur zich nog goed herinneren dat er een arm aanspoelde in Punto Fijo, de Venezolaanse plaats die het dichtst bij de Antillen ligt. ,,Ze stuurden de arm naar het lab in Caracas. Toen we niets meer hoorden, ben ik na gaan bellen. Wat bleek? Hadden ze de arm in Caracas weggegooid, omdat het een pelikanenpoot zou zijn geweest.’’ De zakenman is er tot op de dag van vandaag van overtuigd dat het wél een arm was. ,,Ik heb er een foto van gezien en hoewel de kwaliteit slecht was, was het duidelijk een arm.’’[/b]
Kweet niet, maar er bestaan vast verschillen tussen armen en pelikanenpoten.
Dit verhaal komt me wel een beetje onwaarschijnlijk over, maar ja, je weet het niet he?
Het kan geen kwaad er rekening mee houden dat iedereen verhalen kan gaan rondstrooien.
Opsturen naar een forensisch instituut die foto, zou ik zeggen.
Freddy's June 12, 2005 witness statement implies that the FOUR of them went to the beach and ... THEY left her on the beach.
++++++++++
Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
Joran's Book
June 12, 2005
Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house.
He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together.
After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her.
They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba.
The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves.
After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away.
The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the FOUR OF THEM drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that THEY had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.
Translator: Rammstein
++++++++++
Freddy Arambatzis
Witness Statement
Joran's Book
June 12, 2005
Monday afternoon on the 30th, Joran came to my house.
He told me that the previous day, Sunday, he had befriended a girl in the Holiday Inn casino and that she had invited him to come to Carlos and Charlies that evening. He went and they danced and drank together.
After that he, Deepak Satish and the girl drove off. Her friends saw that. The drove in the direction of the Lighthouse; a white car was behind them and most likely wanted to race Deepak. But that is something Deepak would never do. Joran told me that he fingered and had french kissed the girl while they were driving. He did not say that he had had sex with her.
They drove to the Lighthouse, she wanted to see sharks. But Deepak only drove up to the Lighthouse because his car is very low to the ground and cannot drive up to the North side of Aruba.
The girl had said to Joran that if Deepak and Satish would have lived in her town, they would be slaves.
After that they drove to the hotel. When the girl had pushed open the door of the car, she fell to the ground. Joran wanted to help her but she shoved him away.
The next day, Tuesday May 31st 2005 in the afternoon, I was with Joran at the raquetclub. Joran looked worried. He asked me if I could remember what he had said the previous day about the girl. I told him yes. The girl had gone missing. The FBI had been to his house during the night but he had not been home. His father had called him to find out where he was, Joran said that he was in the Raddison Casino. He told he that after that phone call he was called on the phone by Deepak and that Deepak picked him up a few minutes later. They drove to Joran's house. The FBI and the girls family were at his house. After that Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and himself did not drop off the girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel, but that the FOUR OF THEM drove to the beach at the north side of the Marriot Hotel. The girl had fallen several times on the way to the beach. Joran told me that at some point she "no longer came around/no longer regained consciousness" and that THEY had left her on the beach. He also told me that he had left his gym/sporting shoes on the beach. After Joran had told me this, I asked him why he had left her there. He answered me that at that moment he had not known what to do. Joran told me that after this he was dropped off at home by Deepak and Satish.
Translator: Rammstein
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
More on GVC,This is the same story that was on our America's most wanted.
Prev. posted Feb.5th.
Interview With Cromvoirt Acquaintance
Though currently studying abroad, I was able to establish contact and do a brief phone interview with a young American girl acquainted with current detainee in the Natalee Holloway investigation, Geoffrey van Cromvoirt.
She is still somewhat shaken by news of his arrest, particularly as it was June 9th, 2005, the night Joran Van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers were arrested, when she met GVC at Carlos and Charlies. She was able to provide the day of the week, Thursday, which matches with the night of the three boys arrests. After speaking with her, I've no reason to doubt her veracity.
GVC was alone at Carlos and Charlies that night keeping mostly to himself. She could only remember him saying hello to one other person passing by that night in the club. After some initial eye contact, it was she who approached GVC. He immediately appeared to open up.
One item of possible interest, he told her that he worked during the day taking tourists out on a Catamaran. While I have no way of ascertaining it was the same catamaran, I do recall photos taken by the Mountain Brook students showing that they did take such a trip.
GVC struck her as something of a self promoter, constantly talking about himself, his many connections and his family's supposed wealth. She also recalled seeing images of some famous individuals he had stored in his cell phone, noting that GVC did not appear with those people in said pictures. Still, he insisted they were friends.
On another night, she may have been less receptive to the seemingly brash young man, but she found him attractive, she was on vacation and the two eventually danced. She indicated that there were no drugs involved, though both were drinking. At some point, GVC offered her a ride to her hotel and a male friend of the young woman went along.
GVC did apparently brag about being involved with security, trying to exert some pressure on a hotel guard to acknowledge who he was. The guard apparently failed to acknowledge him in any significant manner. She believes he was driving a jeep at the time, possibly blue and that he also mentioned a recent or pending purchase of a truck, color unknown.
Back at her hotel, it was decided that he would leave behind his ID and possibly some other wallet contents with her friends as security before the two went back out alone together. They spent approximately a half an hour or so together, primarily on the beach. The only potentially unusual thing she noticed during their time on the beach was that he might have been a bit nervous, looking about - at one point claiming he saw a security guard coming. She could not see a guard.
After some time on the beach his cell phone started ringing but he did not answer it. She believes it rang several times in succession, possibly as many as seven times. When she inquired about the calls, he stated that it was his Mother and that he had to get home. He kept reiterating, he had to go. She was puzzled at this as she believed him to be 19 years old at the time.
After a night of being extremely talkative, mostly about himself, she did eventually ask him in a casual way about the Natalee Holloway case. She feels very strongly that it was at that point his demeanor significantly changed. He almost completely stopped talking while the two were walking, swiftly now, back to her hotel.
She asked a few different questions ... if he knew of the case, of those involved, what was it that he thought. But he did not answer any of those questions, or change the topic. He mostly just stopped talking at all. They returned to her hotel, a friend brought down his things and that was the last she saw of him until his recent arrest. She felt he all but took off running, likely related to the phone calls, as he left.
Later after leaving the island, the interaction did leave her with a strange feeling, mostly because of his sudden silence when the topic of Natalee Holloway came up. Unsure if it meant anything, or not, eventually she did call the FBI. She gave them what information she could as regards the encounter, much of which I have now relayed here.
It remains unclear what, if any connection GVC has to the Holloway case. But at least one individual who spent some time with the boy soon after the disappearance was troubled enough about his demeanor simply talking about the case to make a call to the FBI.
I have agreed to keep her identity secret.
Prev. posted Feb.5th.
Interview With Cromvoirt Acquaintance
Though currently studying abroad, I was able to establish contact and do a brief phone interview with a young American girl acquainted with current detainee in the Natalee Holloway investigation, Geoffrey van Cromvoirt.
She is still somewhat shaken by news of his arrest, particularly as it was June 9th, 2005, the night Joran Van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers were arrested, when she met GVC at Carlos and Charlies. She was able to provide the day of the week, Thursday, which matches with the night of the three boys arrests. After speaking with her, I've no reason to doubt her veracity.
GVC was alone at Carlos and Charlies that night keeping mostly to himself. She could only remember him saying hello to one other person passing by that night in the club. After some initial eye contact, it was she who approached GVC. He immediately appeared to open up.
One item of possible interest, he told her that he worked during the day taking tourists out on a Catamaran. While I have no way of ascertaining it was the same catamaran, I do recall photos taken by the Mountain Brook students showing that they did take such a trip.
GVC struck her as something of a self promoter, constantly talking about himself, his many connections and his family's supposed wealth. She also recalled seeing images of some famous individuals he had stored in his cell phone, noting that GVC did not appear with those people in said pictures. Still, he insisted they were friends.
On another night, she may have been less receptive to the seemingly brash young man, but she found him attractive, she was on vacation and the two eventually danced. She indicated that there were no drugs involved, though both were drinking. At some point, GVC offered her a ride to her hotel and a male friend of the young woman went along.
GVC did apparently brag about being involved with security, trying to exert some pressure on a hotel guard to acknowledge who he was. The guard apparently failed to acknowledge him in any significant manner. She believes he was driving a jeep at the time, possibly blue and that he also mentioned a recent or pending purchase of a truck, color unknown.
Back at her hotel, it was decided that he would leave behind his ID and possibly some other wallet contents with her friends as security before the two went back out alone together. They spent approximately a half an hour or so together, primarily on the beach. The only potentially unusual thing she noticed during their time on the beach was that he might have been a bit nervous, looking about - at one point claiming he saw a security guard coming. She could not see a guard.
After some time on the beach his cell phone started ringing but he did not answer it. She believes it rang several times in succession, possibly as many as seven times. When she inquired about the calls, he stated that it was his Mother and that he had to get home. He kept reiterating, he had to go. She was puzzled at this as she believed him to be 19 years old at the time.
After a night of being extremely talkative, mostly about himself, she did eventually ask him in a casual way about the Natalee Holloway case. She feels very strongly that it was at that point his demeanor significantly changed. He almost completely stopped talking while the two were walking, swiftly now, back to her hotel.
She asked a few different questions ... if he knew of the case, of those involved, what was it that he thought. But he did not answer any of those questions, or change the topic. He mostly just stopped talking at all. They returned to her hotel, a friend brought down his things and that was the last she saw of him until his recent arrest. She felt he all but took off running, likely related to the phone calls, as he left.
Later after leaving the island, the interaction did leave her with a strange feeling, mostly because of his sudden silence when the topic of Natalee Holloway came up. Unsure if it meant anything, or not, eventually she did call the FBI. She gave them what information she could as regards the encounter, much of which I have now relayed here.
It remains unclear what, if any connection GVC has to the Holloway case. But at least one individual who spent some time with the boy soon after the disappearance was troubled enough about his demeanor simply talking about the case to make a call to the FBI.
I have agreed to keep her identity secret.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
For some reason alot of the youtubes lately have been yanked lately,they worked a month ago. Correct,we were toold the duct tape and hair was not natalee. The resuts of the VCB shirt were never made public. No idea where the shirt is,,quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 13:48 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:
[..]
The youtube video's have been removed. Did you know?
Do you have a link to the artikel of 'Algemeen Dagblad'?
Is there a PV of G. C.?
The hair on the duck-tape was not from natalee, said the FBI. (correct me if I am wrong)
The vcb shirt was with blood and linked to Natalee said Aruban police. The results were never made public.
Where is that shirt? Gone forever?
The circle is becoming bigger and bigger, (for me that is). For me it is clear that there is a cover-up, but to what extent I only can fear about that.
We have to wait untill somone who dumped natalee or was involved, 'breaks'. Oterwise I dont think this case will ever be solved.
I agree with you,Someone has to talk or the walls of the cover up have to come down or this will never be solved.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Amy Bradley dissapeared from a cruise ship as it was arriving in Curacao. As they were docked outside of Aruba a couple of band members were persistent in taking her to Carlos and Charlies,she thought they were creepy so she never went. Later A American sailor was at a brothel when he was approached by a girl that said she was Amy Bradley and she needed his help. He was not supposed to be at this place so he never reported it until much later. When they went back to this Brothel it was burned down. A picture was found 2 years ago that looks very similar to her on a Adult Vaction place in a island off of Venezuela called Margarita Island. It is believed to be her.As far as I know there is no connection with Amy Bradley and Natalee Holloway.quote:
[ Bericht 4% gewijzigd door observer777 op 12-02-2008 19:25:59 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
She is a liar and words cannot describe this person,most everything she has said has proven to be lies. She has zero credibility.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 14:46 schreef I.B het volgende:
I saw some posts about that Julia Renfro, that's supposed to be a liar. But I don't understand because when she said in Netwerk (a link in the previous topic) a plain had arrived and such things there was also someone that worked at the airport that could confirm that. So she couldn't be a complete liar
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Paul van der Sloot said in a phone conversation with Peter de Vries that they had a lot to tell but they will not do that just now because of people involved who could be hurt by this information
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Devries
MARTHA MACCALLUM
FOX NEWS
November 28, 2006
MARTHA: …could this be used against Joran Van Der Sloot at this point? From Aruba, on the phone is Peter De Vries, who is a Dutch crime reporter, who broke this story. Peter, good to have you with us today.
PETER: Hello, Martha, but I am not at Aruba…I am in Holland.
MARTHA: Alright, well good to have you from Holland! Thank you ver much for being with us. Let me ask you this question, and I have gone through some of what you said about this already. But explain to our viewers exactly what you understand Joran’s lawyer told to Karin Janssen, the prosecutor.
PETER: Yeah, what I found out is that the lawyer of Joran, Mr. Carlo, made an appointment with head prosecutor, Karin Janssen. And he said he wanted to talk with her, and then she said, no, I cannot do that…that is highly unusual. We can’t talk during an investigation. But then he said, yeah, well, I have to talk to you…please. And, well, ok, then she admitted; and she said ok, you can come to my office.
And then the two had a talk, and Mr. Carlo said, yeah, I have to clear my conscience. I can tell you that, my client Joran has played a major role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
And I want you to know that, and, of course, it is up to you to deliver the full proof for that. But I can tell you that…that…he is playing a major role in this.
MARTHA: Right. And your reporting says that happened in June, just a month after she disappeared…is that correct?
PETER: Yeah, it was shortly after the arrest of Joran.
MARTHA: Alright, tell me what you think he meant by: “played a major part?” Was there any elaboration on that, because I know you confronted him about this meeting.
PETER: Yeah, what I know, is that at least, Karin Janssen, the head prosecutor…understood this as, that he has guilt on the disappearance of Natalee .… that he has something to do with it.
So there is no misunderstanding about that, because when they didn’t manage to solve this case, Karin Janssen, also, wrote Mr. Carlo a letter…a couple of months later. And she said, can we please have a new talk about this? Can you please give some more details?
But then Mr. Carlo got scared, because he thought…that is what he understood…that it was a secret meeting…that she could talk. But when the head prosecutor was writing it…I mean a letter…it was no longer a secret.
MARTHA: Right…right…that made him nervous to think that about putting this down on paper. Peter De Vries, thank you so much for talking with us today. We want to bring in now, on the phone, from Alabama…is Natalee’s Mom, Beth Holloway Twitty. Beth, welcome to you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The LineUp 12-03-06
Kimberly: Dutch Crime Reporter Peter De Vries conducted the investigation. I asked him about his conversation with Van der Sloots first attorney Antonio Carlo. Listen to this.
Peter: Well we paid Carlo a visit in his office and we recorded that with candid camera and at first he tried to deny that there had been a meeting with head prosecutor but after a while he realized what we knew and then he got very uncomfortable and admitted that there had been a meeting and that was with the head prosecutor and panicked and he was very uncomfortable with this.
Kimberly: Now how did Antonio Carlo describe why he met Karin Janssen?
Peter: Well he didnt want to tell us very much about it but what we found out that there was a secret meeting and thats highly unusually because head prosecutor is not allowed to have talks during an investigation with the lawyer or attorney so thats very strange and also Karin Janssen the head prosecutor wrote us a fax in which she admitted that a meeting took place so its impossible to deny that there was a meeting.
Kimberly: And what was divulged during these meetings.
Peter: Well in the meeting Mr. Carlo said that he had to clear his conscience and that Joran Van der Sloot played a major part in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. No doubt at all that he said that.
Kimberly: Did he go into any other details in terms of what that means played a major part in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway?
Peter: Well he then stated to the head prosecutor that it was up to the police and the justice to get the full proof of this but that he wanted to clear his conscience and that yeah they had to do the work.
Kimberly: And how many letters were exchanged back and forth between them and what information was in those letters?
Peter: Well the head prosecutor wrote him a letter and she asked for more details and then Mr. Carlo got scared because his tip was certainly on paper and he didnt expect that because it was a secret meeting and when Karin Janssen put it on paper he realized it was no longer a secret so then he wrote a letter back and denied he had said something like that.
Kimberly: Now have any of the Aruban or Dutch Officials contacted you about this important information?
Peter: Yeah they contact me I have several sources in this case and there is really no doubt not for one percent that he said that.
Kimberly: And what do the investigators make of this?
Peter: Now they make of this of course that Joran Van der Sloot is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.
Kimberly: Wow. Now you know of course Jorans current attorney Joe Tacopina said that this is making up facts your fabricating facts there was no such meeting.
Peter: No then (Peter started laughing) he doesnt know what happened I think and I have recording with our candid camera which shows the opposite of what he is saying so I dont think hes very well informed.
Kimberly: Alright well Peter thank you so much in joining me tonight and talking about these new developments.
Peter: OK welcome.
Jossy Mansur (Editor of Dario Newspaper in Aruba) by phone:
Kimberly: I got to ask you what did the former police chief say to you about Joran Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers involvement in Natalees disappearance.
Jossy: He definitely confirmed that they admitted to the police that they had molested the girl while she was going in and out of consciousness but among other things that he said.
Kimberly: And how long was this conversation and who specifically did you speak to.
Jossy: I spoke to Gerald Dompig the conversation took place in my office for about an hour and I have it all on video tape.
Kimberly: Any why did you video tape it Jossy?
Jossy: Because as the Diario we usually do that with people we dont trust to begin with. To have a documented proof of whatever we are going to publish in the future.
Kimberly: Alright well there are many people who doubt that you have this tape and want to know in fact is contained in this video tape? Do you have a transcript of this?
Jossy: You know many people doubt many things I say but after I publish the truth everybody becomes quiet. They go into a profound silence. But we have the proof I have the tape the video tape, we have various copies of it made.
Kimberly: OK and you claim to have a transcript in fact that links the boys to Natalees disappearance. Do you have that for us that you can read a portion of that?
Jossy: I can read a portion for you for example when I asked him about the case he said well you know we cannot go because we dont have a body but you have a model crime and on the basis of their own declarations, Im quoting him at the bottom now and then he said look if its not rape they fingered her, they did a lot of things to her according to their own declarations and he we have an article in our penal code that provides an eight year sentence for that. If you do that to a girl who is not conscious they themselves said that she passed out on (inaudible) phases in the car. That means if you do that to a person who cannot defend herself its eight years. He told me this (inaudible) Im quoting from the tape.
Kimberly: And what else did he tell you?
Jossy: He told me many other things. For example you are not talking about Joran alone because while the other guy was driving the car they were making out with the girl in the back.
Kimberly: And when you say they who was he referring to did he specify the Kalpoe brothers?
Jossy: He said the Kalpoe brothers with Joran yes.
Kimberly: Did you ask him why he didnt do anything with this information and why a case wasnt presented by the prosecutor?
Jossy: No because I thought they would proceed on the basis of a model crime because he confirmed that these three suspects admitted this to the police.
Kimberly: Jossy have you presented this tape to the new police chief or the prosecutors office. Who else has the information?
Jossy: The tape I only have the tape, I havent given it to anyone because so many things have happened in this case and so many mistrusts of who you can trust and who you cannot trust so I will present it to the prosecution when this case goes to court.
Kimberly: Jossy Mansur thank you for being on with me tonight.
http://www.katablog.com/day_blogs.cfm?d=4&m=12&y=2006
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door observer777 op 12-02-2008 20:45:08 ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Devries
MARTHA MACCALLUM
FOX NEWS
November 28, 2006
MARTHA: …could this be used against Joran Van Der Sloot at this point? From Aruba, on the phone is Peter De Vries, who is a Dutch crime reporter, who broke this story. Peter, good to have you with us today.
PETER: Hello, Martha, but I am not at Aruba…I am in Holland.
MARTHA: Alright, well good to have you from Holland! Thank you ver much for being with us. Let me ask you this question, and I have gone through some of what you said about this already. But explain to our viewers exactly what you understand Joran’s lawyer told to Karin Janssen, the prosecutor.
PETER: Yeah, what I found out is that the lawyer of Joran, Mr. Carlo, made an appointment with head prosecutor, Karin Janssen. And he said he wanted to talk with her, and then she said, no, I cannot do that…that is highly unusual. We can’t talk during an investigation. But then he said, yeah, well, I have to talk to you…please. And, well, ok, then she admitted; and she said ok, you can come to my office.
And then the two had a talk, and Mr. Carlo said, yeah, I have to clear my conscience. I can tell you that, my client Joran has played a major role in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.
And I want you to know that, and, of course, it is up to you to deliver the full proof for that. But I can tell you that…that…he is playing a major role in this.
MARTHA: Right. And your reporting says that happened in June, just a month after she disappeared…is that correct?
PETER: Yeah, it was shortly after the arrest of Joran.
MARTHA: Alright, tell me what you think he meant by: “played a major part?” Was there any elaboration on that, because I know you confronted him about this meeting.
PETER: Yeah, what I know, is that at least, Karin Janssen, the head prosecutor…understood this as, that he has guilt on the disappearance of Natalee .… that he has something to do with it.
So there is no misunderstanding about that, because when they didn’t manage to solve this case, Karin Janssen, also, wrote Mr. Carlo a letter…a couple of months later. And she said, can we please have a new talk about this? Can you please give some more details?
But then Mr. Carlo got scared, because he thought…that is what he understood…that it was a secret meeting…that she could talk. But when the head prosecutor was writing it…I mean a letter…it was no longer a secret.
MARTHA: Right…right…that made him nervous to think that about putting this down on paper. Peter De Vries, thank you so much for talking with us today. We want to bring in now, on the phone, from Alabama…is Natalee’s Mom, Beth Holloway Twitty. Beth, welcome to you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The LineUp 12-03-06
Kimberly: Dutch Crime Reporter Peter De Vries conducted the investigation. I asked him about his conversation with Van der Sloots first attorney Antonio Carlo. Listen to this.
Peter: Well we paid Carlo a visit in his office and we recorded that with candid camera and at first he tried to deny that there had been a meeting with head prosecutor but after a while he realized what we knew and then he got very uncomfortable and admitted that there had been a meeting and that was with the head prosecutor and panicked and he was very uncomfortable with this.
Kimberly: Now how did Antonio Carlo describe why he met Karin Janssen?
Peter: Well he didnt want to tell us very much about it but what we found out that there was a secret meeting and thats highly unusually because head prosecutor is not allowed to have talks during an investigation with the lawyer or attorney so thats very strange and also Karin Janssen the head prosecutor wrote us a fax in which she admitted that a meeting took place so its impossible to deny that there was a meeting.
Kimberly: And what was divulged during these meetings.
Peter: Well in the meeting Mr. Carlo said that he had to clear his conscience and that Joran Van der Sloot played a major part in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. No doubt at all that he said that.
Kimberly: Did he go into any other details in terms of what that means played a major part in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway?
Peter: Well he then stated to the head prosecutor that it was up to the police and the justice to get the full proof of this but that he wanted to clear his conscience and that yeah they had to do the work.
Kimberly: And how many letters were exchanged back and forth between them and what information was in those letters?
Peter: Well the head prosecutor wrote him a letter and she asked for more details and then Mr. Carlo got scared because his tip was certainly on paper and he didnt expect that because it was a secret meeting and when Karin Janssen put it on paper he realized it was no longer a secret so then he wrote a letter back and denied he had said something like that.
Kimberly: Now have any of the Aruban or Dutch Officials contacted you about this important information?
Peter: Yeah they contact me I have several sources in this case and there is really no doubt not for one percent that he said that.
Kimberly: And what do the investigators make of this?
Peter: Now they make of this of course that Joran Van der Sloot is responsible for the disappearance of Natalee.
Kimberly: Wow. Now you know of course Jorans current attorney Joe Tacopina said that this is making up facts your fabricating facts there was no such meeting.
Peter: No then (Peter started laughing) he doesnt know what happened I think and I have recording with our candid camera which shows the opposite of what he is saying so I dont think hes very well informed.
Kimberly: Alright well Peter thank you so much in joining me tonight and talking about these new developments.
Peter: OK welcome.
Jossy Mansur (Editor of Dario Newspaper in Aruba) by phone:
Kimberly: I got to ask you what did the former police chief say to you about Joran Van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers involvement in Natalees disappearance.
Jossy: He definitely confirmed that they admitted to the police that they had molested the girl while she was going in and out of consciousness but among other things that he said.
Kimberly: And how long was this conversation and who specifically did you speak to.
Jossy: I spoke to Gerald Dompig the conversation took place in my office for about an hour and I have it all on video tape.
Kimberly: Any why did you video tape it Jossy?
Jossy: Because as the Diario we usually do that with people we dont trust to begin with. To have a documented proof of whatever we are going to publish in the future.
Kimberly: Alright well there are many people who doubt that you have this tape and want to know in fact is contained in this video tape? Do you have a transcript of this?
Jossy: You know many people doubt many things I say but after I publish the truth everybody becomes quiet. They go into a profound silence. But we have the proof I have the tape the video tape, we have various copies of it made.
Kimberly: OK and you claim to have a transcript in fact that links the boys to Natalees disappearance. Do you have that for us that you can read a portion of that?
Jossy: I can read a portion for you for example when I asked him about the case he said well you know we cannot go because we dont have a body but you have a model crime and on the basis of their own declarations, Im quoting him at the bottom now and then he said look if its not rape they fingered her, they did a lot of things to her according to their own declarations and he we have an article in our penal code that provides an eight year sentence for that. If you do that to a girl who is not conscious they themselves said that she passed out on (inaudible) phases in the car. That means if you do that to a person who cannot defend herself its eight years. He told me this (inaudible) Im quoting from the tape.
Kimberly: And what else did he tell you?
Jossy: He told me many other things. For example you are not talking about Joran alone because while the other guy was driving the car they were making out with the girl in the back.
Kimberly: And when you say they who was he referring to did he specify the Kalpoe brothers?
Jossy: He said the Kalpoe brothers with Joran yes.
Kimberly: Did you ask him why he didnt do anything with this information and why a case wasnt presented by the prosecutor?
Jossy: No because I thought they would proceed on the basis of a model crime because he confirmed that these three suspects admitted this to the police.
Kimberly: Jossy have you presented this tape to the new police chief or the prosecutors office. Who else has the information?
Jossy: The tape I only have the tape, I havent given it to anyone because so many things have happened in this case and so many mistrusts of who you can trust and who you cannot trust so I will present it to the prosecution when this case goes to court.
Kimberly: Jossy Mansur thank you for being on with me tonight.
http://www.katablog.com/day_blogs.cfm?d=4&m=12&y=2006
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door observer777 op 12-02-2008 20:45:08 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Het is toch idioot als dit soort tapes en zo bestaan dat er niet al lang een rechtszaak is geweest? Ongelooflijk.
GVC has nothing to do with the case.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 18:54 schreef observer777 het volgende:
More on GVC,This is the same story that was on our America's most wanted.
Prev. posted Feb.5th.
Interview With Cromvoirt Acquaintance
Though currently studying abroad, I was able to establish contact and do a brief phone interview with a young American girl acquainted with current detainee in the Natalee Holloway investigation, Geoffrey van Cromvoirt.
She is still somewhat shaken by news of his arrest, particularly as it was June 9th, 2005, the night Joran Van der Sloot and the two Kalpoe brothers were arrested, when she met GVC at Carlos and Charlies. She was able to provide the day of the week, Thursday, which matches with the night of the three boys arrests. After speaking with her, I've no reason to doubt her veracity.
GVC was alone at Carlos and Charlies that night keeping mostly to himself. She could only remember him saying hello to one other person passing by that night in the club. After some initial eye contact, it was she who approached GVC. He immediately appeared to open up.
One item of possible interest, he told her that he worked during the day taking tourists out on a Catamaran. While I have no way of ascertaining it was the same catamaran, I do recall photos taken by the Mountain Brook students showing that they did take such a trip.
GVC struck her as something of a self promoter, constantly talking about himself, his many connections and his family's supposed wealth. She also recalled seeing images of some famous individuals he had stored in his cell phone, noting that GVC did not appear with those people in said pictures. Still, he insisted they were friends.
On another night, she may have been less receptive to the seemingly brash young man, but she found him attractive, she was on vacation and the two eventually danced. She indicated that there were no drugs involved, though both were drinking. At some point, GVC offered her a ride to her hotel and a male friend of the young woman went along.
GVC did apparently brag about being involved with security, trying to exert some pressure on a hotel guard to acknowledge who he was. The guard apparently failed to acknowledge him in any significant manner. She believes he was driving a jeep at the time, possibly blue and that he also mentioned a recent or pending purchase of a truck, color unknown.
Back at her hotel, it was decided that he would leave behind his ID and possibly some other wallet contents with her friends as security before the two went back out alone together. They spent approximately a half an hour or so together, primarily on the beach. The only potentially unusual thing she noticed during their time on the beach was that he might have been a bit nervous, looking about - at one point claiming he saw a security guard coming. She could not see a guard.
After some time on the beach his cell phone started ringing but he did not answer it. She believes it rang several times in succession, possibly as many as seven times. When she inquired about the calls, he stated that it was his Mother and that he had to get home. He kept reiterating, he had to go. She was puzzled at this as she believed him to be 19 years old at the time.
After a night of being extremely talkative, mostly about himself, she did eventually ask him in a casual way about the Natalee Holloway case. She feels very strongly that it was at that point his demeanor significantly changed. He almost completely stopped talking while the two were walking, swiftly now, back to her hotel.
She asked a few different questions ... if he knew of the case, of those involved, what was it that he thought. But he did not answer any of those questions, or change the topic. He mostly just stopped talking at all. They returned to her hotel, a friend brought down his things and that was the last she saw of him until his recent arrest. She felt he all but took off running, likely related to the phone calls, as he left.
Later after leaving the island, the interaction did leave her with a strange feeling, mostly because of his sudden silence when the topic of Natalee Holloway came up. Unsure if it meant anything, or not, eventually she did call the FBI. She gave them what information she could as regards the encounter, much of which I have now relayed here.
It remains unclear what, if any connection GVC has to the Holloway case. But at least one individual who spent some time with the boy soon after the disappearance was troubled enough about his demeanor simply talking about the case to make a call to the FBI.
I have agreed to keep her identity secret.
A little attempt to unmystify him......
On the web there is a recent "interview" with him (and his family) about his impressions after the Peter de Vries show.
But it's not realy interesting what they have to say.
Voormalig verdachte Geoffrey Cromvoirt reageert op uitzending De Vries
Huidige trend atmosf. CO2 Mauna Loa: 411 ppm ,10 jaar geleden: 387 ppm , 25 jaar geleden: 358 ppm
Thanks for the vidquote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 20:44 schreef barthol het volgende:
[..]
GVC has nothing to do with the case.
A little attempt to unmystify him......
On the web there is a recent "interview" with him (and his family) about his impressions after the Peter de Vries show.
But it's not realy interesting what they have to say.
Voormalig verdachte Geoffrey Cromvoirt reageert op uitzending De Vries
What do they say? You should know that Joran's American Lawyer Joe Tacopina continues to throw Jeffrey under the bus,says he was seen with Natalee after Joran and that the VCB shirt does have forensic evidence on it and it is linked to this case and that is why GVC was arrested.
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
staat ook meer op het spel dan wij allemaal in kunnen zien.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 20:39 schreef Rosite het volgende:
Het is toch idioot als dit soort tapes en zo bestaan dat er niet al lang een rechtszaak is geweest? Ongelooflijk.
bijvoorbeeld:
als naar buiten komt hoe smerig dit hele zaakje is zal het kabinet Balkenende niet meer geloofwaardig zijn.
komen er verkiezingen, en wie wint er dan: Wilders.
de enige partij die de Antillen / Aruba corrupt durft te noemen en op e-bay wou zetten en zich uitsprak over Natalee.
http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=103
http://www.telegraaf.nl/b(...)llen_afgelast__.html
verder is er een redelijke kans dat Aruba de onafhankelijkheid uitspreekt.
in 1986 was afgesproken dat dat binnen 10 jaar zou gebeuren.
Croes is niet trots op z'n Nederlandse paspoort en hij en Oduber nemen af en toe het woord onafhankelijkheid weer in de mond.
stel dat het nu gebeurt zal Joran nooit berecht worden op Aruba en stopt de subside van Nederland en zinkt het eiland nog verder in de modder.
goeie kans dat Chávez dan eindelijk z'n droom waar maakt en een eiland erbij pikt.
dat vindt Amerika weer niet leuk want Venezuela schuift dan iets dichter op naar Amerika.
kortom er zijn een hoop redenen om de doofpot in stand te houden te verzinnen.
de gevestigde media hebben ook niet zoveel zin in Wilders.
daarom wordt er niet over bericht.
het is onbegrijpelijk dat het belangrijke bezoek van Balkenende naar de Antillen en Aruba amper in het nieuws is.
http://www.minaz.nl/Actue(...)se_Antillen_en_Aruba
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 21:31 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
staat ook meer op het spel dan wij allemaal in kunnen zien.
bijvoorbeeld:
als naar buiten komt hoe smerig dit hele zaakje is zal het kabinet Balkenende niet meer geloofwaardig zijn.
komen er verkiezingen, en wie wint er dan: Wilders.
de enige partij die de Antillen / Aruba corrupt durft te noemen en op e-bay wou zetten en zich uitsprak over Natalee.
http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=103
http://www.telegraaf.nl/b(...)llen_afgelast__.html
verder is er een redelijke kans dat Aruba de onafhankelijkheid uitspreekt.
in 1986 was afgesproken dat dat binnen 10 jaar zou gebeuren.
Croes is niet trots op z'n Nederlandse paspoort en hij en Oduber nemen af en toe het woord onafhankelijkheid weer in de mond.
stel dat het nu gebeurt zal Joran nooit berecht worden op Aruba en stopt de subside van Nederland en zinkt het eiland nog verder in de modder.
goeie kans dat Chávez dan eindelijk z'n droom waar maakt en een eiland erbij pikt.
dat vindt Amerika weer niet leuk want Venezuela schuift dan iets dichter op naar Amerika.
kortom er zijn een hoop redenen om de doofpot in stand te houden te verzinnen.
de gevestigde media hebben ook niet zoveel zin in Wilders.
daarom wordt er niet over bericht.
het is onbegrijpelijk dat het belangrijke bezoek van Balkenende naar de Antillen en Aruba amper in het nieuws is.
http://www.minaz.nl/Actue(...)se_Antillen_en_Aruba
Keep the faith!!
voorspelbaarquote:
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Zomaar een vraagje hoor, ben jij wel eens op schizofrenie getest?quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 21:31 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
staat ook meer op het spel dan wij allemaal in kunnen zien.
bijvoorbeeld:
als naar buiten komt hoe smerig dit hele zaakje is zal het kabinet Balkenende niet meer geloofwaardig zijn.
komen er verkiezingen, en wie wint er dan: Wilders.
de enige partij die de Antillen / Aruba corrupt durft te noemen en op e-bay wou zetten en zich uitsprak over Natalee.
http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=103
http://www.telegraaf.nl/b(...)llen_afgelast__.html
verder is er een redelijke kans dat Aruba de onafhankelijkheid uitspreekt.
in 1986 was afgesproken dat dat binnen 10 jaar zou gebeuren.
Croes is niet trots op z'n Nederlandse paspoort en hij en Oduber nemen af en toe het woord onafhankelijkheid weer in de mond.
stel dat het nu gebeurt zal Joran nooit berecht worden op Aruba en stopt de subside van Nederland en zinkt het eiland nog verder in de modder.
goeie kans dat Chávez dan eindelijk z'n droom waar maakt en een eiland erbij pikt.
dat vindt Amerika weer niet leuk want Venezuela schuift dan iets dichter op naar Amerika.
kortom er zijn een hoop redenen om de doofpot in stand te houden te verzinnen.
de gevestigde media hebben ook niet zoveel zin in Wilders.
daarom wordt er niet over bericht.
het is onbegrijpelijk dat het belangrijke bezoek van Balkenende naar de Antillen en Aruba amper in het nieuws is.
http://www.minaz.nl/Actue(...)se_Antillen_en_Aruba
denk je nou werkelijk dat joran zo'n belangrijk persoontje in z'n eentje is.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 22:00 schreef Klummie het volgende:
[..]
Zomaar een vraagje hoor, ben jij wel eens op schizofrenie getest?
dat hij advocatenbureau's in Aruba, Nederland en Amerika achter zich heeft?
waar betaalt hij dat allemaal van? van z'n zakgeld zeker.
of is die Paul van der Sloot zo'n rijk man.
http://www.tacopinalaw.com/
die knakker doet het echt niet pro bono hoor.
je zou eens naar die Tacopina moeten luisteren in wat voor bochten die zich wringt.
hij kwam met het verhaal dat er vanaf die telefooncel niet gebeld was door Joran.
dat had ie van de kustwacht zei hij.
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Nee man, maar je draaft zo verschrikkelijk door.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 23:02 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
denk je nou werkelijk dat joran zo'n belangrijk persoontje in z'n eentje is.
dat hij advocatenbureau's in Aruba, Nederland en Amerika achter zich heeft?
waar betaalt hij dat allemaal van? van z'n zakgeld zeker.
of is die Paul van der Sloot zo'n rijk man.
http://www.tacopinalaw.com/
die knakker doet het echt niet pro bono hoor.
je zou eens naar die Tacopina moeten luisteren in wat voor bochten die zich wringt.
hij kwam met het verhaal dat er vanaf die telefooncel niet gebeld was door Joran.
dat had ie van de kustwacht zei hij.
Aftreden van de regering en dus Wilders aan de macht
Je ziet overal een samenzwering in. Nogmaals, je brengt je speculaties naar voren als vaststaande feiten, dat is catgeorisch onjuist.
Ik weet het! Het waren de moslims want als Wilders aan de macht zou komen zouden zij een gerechtigde aanleiding hebben om om een coupe te plegen in ons land! De nederlandse overheid scheit natuurlijk al 7 kleuren stront bij deze gedachte en dekt de arubanen in, de amerikanen kijken met lede ogen toe maar zijn in deze tijd van depressie ook niet gebaat bij een burgeroorlog in europa. Zij verzinnen bewijsstukken en laten deze ook weer verdwijnen, schuiven de schuld op zuid amerikaanse landen zodat ze verzekerd zijn van steun uit het westen in hun war on drugs. Aruba wordt aangemerkt als drugseiland zodat de focus daar ligt en andere drugsexporterende landen zich ongewaand denken terwijl Osama een aanslag op Colombia pleegt zodat hij de 9/11 aanslagen goed maakt en de VS een aanleiding geeft zuid amerika te annexeren en zodoende de drugshandel in handen te krijgen. Nederland mag XTC blijven exporteren zolang dit maar via Aruba gebeurt. De moslims blijven aanvallen omdat hun opium en heroine handel stagneert door het royale aanbod van goede coke en XTC.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 23:02 schreef Caesu het volgende:
-knip-
Ik ben niet schizo, het waren de moslims! Je weet toch?
Capa del satén blanco, Cuerpo del acero, Corazón del oro.
ik kan natuurlijk ook niet in de toekomst kijken.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 23:19 schreef Klummie het volgende:
[..]
Nee man, maar je draaft zo verschrikkelijk door.
Aftreden van de regering en dus Wilders aan de macht
Nogmaals, je brengt je speculaties naar voren als vaststaande feiten, dat is catgeorisch onjuist.
maar ik probeer wel een groter plaatje te zien.
en probeer vervolgens een beetje vooruit te denken.
daar draaf ik misschien wat in door, maar kan dat kwaad?
als je bijvoorbeeld in een kantoorgebouw een bijzonder gedetailleerd evacuatieplan opstelt.
dan ga je toch ook niet zeggen: "onheilsprofeet, denk je werkelijk dat de boel in de fik zal gaan?".
nogmaals een vraag aan jou:
denk je werkelijk dat het hier alleen maar om Joran van der Sloot gaat, een kereltje wat de halve dag stoned is en een beetje online zit te pokeren?
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Nogmaals, ik denk helemaal niets, ik wacht liever de feiten af.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 23:27 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
ik kan natuurlijk ook niet in de toekomst kijken.
maar ik probeer wel een groter plaatje te zien.
en probeer vervolgens een beetje vooruit te denken.
daar draaf ik misschien wat in door, maar kan dat kwaad?
als je bijvoorbeeld in een kantoorgebouw een bijzonder gedetailleerd evacuatieplan opstelt.
dan ga je toch ook niet zeggen: "onheilsprofeet, denk je werkelijk dat de boel in de fik zal gaan?".
nogmaals een vraag aan jou:
denk je werkelijk dat het hier alleen maar om Joran van der Sloot gaat, een kereltje wat de halve dag stoned is en een beetje online zit te pokeren?
Ik lees de gekste verhalen op internet hierover, overal zit er wel een vorm van logica in, ze spreken elkaar echter ook op tal van punten tegen. Du swie of wat moet je geloven, ik geloof de feiten, als die er ooit komen.
Er is geen enkele feitelijke reden om aan te nemen dat dit om iets meer gaat dan Joran.
Er is nog steeds geen lijk, geen getuige, geen enkel spoor en dat na tweeënhalf jaar. Alleen een hele hoop gebakken lucht. Maar omdat nu allemaal af te schuiven op een grote complottheorie?
You know, what they say is hardly interesting. It's not much of an interview. Basicly the reporter askedquote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 21:12 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
Thanks for the vid
if they were also shocked by what the had seen, and they confirm the were also shocked by the shown
disrespect. At the end Geoffrey tells about the unconvenience of having to explain his innocence every
time when he meets new friends.
In his former interview Geoffrey had stated he never met Natalee, and that is most likely the truth.
It was very convincing in that interview.
Huidige trend atmosf. CO2 Mauna Loa: 411 ppm ,10 jaar geleden: 387 ppm , 25 jaar geleden: 358 ppm
dubbel 
[ Bericht 44% gewijzigd door barthol op 13-02-2008 00:06:20 ]
[ Bericht 44% gewijzigd door barthol op 13-02-2008 00:06:20 ]
Huidige trend atmosf. CO2 Mauna Loa: 411 ppm ,10 jaar geleden: 387 ppm , 25 jaar geleden: 358 ppm
prima geen probleem.quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 23:33 schreef Klummie het volgende:
[..]
Nogmaals, ik denk helemaal niets, ik wacht liever de feiten af.
Ik lees de gekste verhalen op internet hierover, overal zit er wel een vorm van logica in, ze spreken elkaar echter ook op tal van punten tegen. Du swie of wat moet je geloven, ik geloof de feiten, als die er ooit komen.
Er is geen enkele feitelijke reden om aan te nemen dat dit om iets meer gaat dan Joran.
Er is nog steeds geen lijk, geen getuige, geen enkel spoor en dat na tweeënhalf jaar. Alleen een hele hoop gebakken lucht. Maar omdat nu allemaal af te schuiven op een grote complottheorie?
ik wacht natuurlijk ook af, we kunnen niet anders.
maar ondertussen denk ik wel een beetje na hoe dit rommeltje zou kunnen aflopen.
reken maar dat de hotline tussen Aruba en Den Haag roodgloeiend staat, we zouden allemaal graag willen meeluisteren denk ik.
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
Die advocaten zijn gewoon uit op publiciteit, Maar goed ik ben het met je eens dat hier veeeeel meer achter zit dan men ons wil doen geloven... Daar ben ik van overtuigtquote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 23:02 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
denk je nou werkelijk dat joran zo'n belangrijk persoontje in z'n eentje is.
dat hij advocatenbureau's in Aruba, Nederland en Amerika achter zich heeft?
waar betaalt hij dat allemaal van? van z'n zakgeld zeker.
of is die Paul van der Sloot zo'n rijk man.
http://www.tacopinalaw.com/
die knakker doet het echt niet pro bono hoor.
je zou eens naar die Tacopina moeten luisteren in wat voor bochten die zich wringt.
hij kwam met het verhaal dat er vanaf die telefooncel niet gebeld was door Joran.
dat had ie van de kustwacht zei hij.
Expertus dico
LOL Tacopina...$ 750 an hour, 1-800-save-my-ass, 'gotta find booty'.
On which show did he yell at Joran talking on the PRDV tapes:'Joran SHUT UP!!' ?
On which show did he yell at Joran talking on the PRDV tapes:'Joran SHUT UP!!' ?
She wasnt missing from aruba....please keep the facts strait. She was last seen on the ship enroute to Curacaoquote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 14:44 schreef Super_Girl het volgende:
Yesss she was missing on Aruba....
Natalee Holloway isn't the first young American woman to disappear in the Caribbean. Seven years ago, then-23-year-old Amy Bradley went missing while on a Caribbean cruise with her family. On March 24, 1998, Bradley was seen by her father at about 5:30 a.m. on her cabin balcony. At 6 a.m., her father awoke and Amy Bradley was gone.
Two women on the cruise reported seeing the woman riding the elevator to the top deck just before it docked at the island of Curacao. At 6 a.m., Amy Bradley was with a musician from the ship's band, they said. A Curacao cab driver told Bradley's father that Amy approached his cab the morning she went missing and said she urgently needed a phone. In addition, two strangers say they saw Amy on Curacao, one in August in 1998, the other in January of 1999.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8143921/
Welcome Mr. President, How can we serve you,
Er is gewoon veel fout gegaan in het onderzoek, verdachten niet gelijk vastgezet maar eerst tijd gegeven om iets te doen? Verder heel veel nieuws de wereld in gegooid allemaal via officiele bronnen, en dan toch weer ontkend. Zoals dat Joran had opgebiecht en de politie wilde lijden naar het lichaam.. Dat werd een dag erna ook weer terug getrokken. Dan het gelieg van Joran Deepak en Satish.. Al die dingen laten mij wel zien dat er iets niet klopt en dat er mensen zijn die zeker meer weten.. Van wie kreeg Joran hulp? De naam die die mee zou nemen in zn graf.. wie bel je als je 17 bent en je bent in paniek? Je vader zeer waarschijnlijk.. Alleen paniek komt weer niet overeen met wat Joran zelf tegen Patrick zegt. En of hij nou lult of niet, hij is op internet gegaan, heeft gesmst, heeft zn schoenen weggegooid.. Kortom genoeg om AAN te kunnen nemen dat er iets niet echt klopt.
Die site van Rene van Nie (die de vader is van Nada van Nie overigens), die Observer in een vorig topic heeft gegeven, is toch wel grappig om te lezen. Vanaf 2005 beschrijft hij als local zo'n beetje wat er allemaal gaande is in de Holloway zaak.
http://www.renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html
Van beneden naar boven lezen dus.
een greep uit zijn berichten van het begin van de verdwijning
- IK WEET DAT DE ARUBAANSE BEVOLKING NIET RACISTISCH IS MAAR DE ACTIE VAN EEN STELLETJE DEBIELE IDIOTEN 'AAN DE TOP' ZOU ONS WEL EENS DE DAS OM KUNNEN DOEN
-Dat dit soort zeer negatieve zaken aan de orde komen via CNN is de schuld van de Nederlandse mevrouw Janssen, u weet wel, dat blonde vrouwtje met dat goedkope permanentje. Weinig representatief voor het hoofd van openbare aanklager/JUSTITIE.
- Kortom, het lijkt me beter dat mevrouwtje Janssen zich nergens meer mee bemoeit en het vliegtuig richting Nederland pakt. Misschien is ze meer op haar plaats naast het man-vrouwtje Verdonk. Heb ik het fout mevrouw Janssen, leg me het dan uit, maar ga in elk geval eerst even naar de kapper en laat die ordi-bos op uw hoofdje fatsoeneren.
- EN IK VRAAG ME AF OF ONZE P.G. EN DE FBI IETS WETEN. WEL OF GEEN BLOED GEVONDEN IN DE AUTO VAN DE DRIE JONGENS?! MOEDER VAN HET MEISJE DIE BLOED HEEFT AFGESTAAN. BLOED DAT NAAR AMERIKA IS GESTUURD IN VERBAND MET DNA. WEL OF GEEN SPEURHOND UIT AMERIKA?!
EN ZO ZITTEN WE HIER MET 80 PERSMENSEN VAN HEEL DE WERELD OP ONS EILAND DIE IN WEZEN NIETS TE MELDEN HEBBEN THUIS. DE REPORTER VAN CNN IS DAAROM NAAR SAN NICOLAS GETOGEN
OM HOERTJES TE FILMEN. BEN BANG DAT DIT VOOR DE 'GELOVIGE' AMERIKAANSE TOERIST EEN REDEN KAN ZIJN VAN ARUBA WEG TE BLIJVEN.
- 1 VAN DE SURINAAMSE JONGENS ZOU TEGEN 1 VAN DE ZWARTE BOYS HEBBEN GEZEGD - ZATEN ZE SAMEN IN EEN CEL OF NAAST ELKAAR?- DAT ZE HET MEISJE SAMEN MET DE HOLLANDSE JONGEN BIJ EEN HEEL ANDER HOTEL HADDEN AFGEZET DAN ZE EERDER HADDEN VERKLAARD.
- Langzaam maar zeker begint de narigheid de overhand te nemen. Ik heb zelf heel veel negatieve info gekregen over o.a. Joran v.d.Sloot en familie maar dat is tot nu toe allemaal onderdeel van het 'fluister' nieuws dus schrijf ik daar niet over. In elk geval nu nog niet tot ik het zeker weet.
- Intussen is via e-mail een lastercampagne begonnen tegen Aruba. Daarin wordt de familie Van der Sloot afgeschilderd als een “volledig disfunctionele, moreel bankroete groep beesten.” Joran wordt daarin in verband gebracht met de productie van pornovideo’s, de groepsverkrachting van een veertienjarig meisje en gewelddadig gedrag tegen zijn klasgenoten. Volgens de afzender, ene Dan Ferrill, is de 17 jarige jongen tot in de grond verwend, rijdt met toestemming van zijn ouders auto en is een veelgeziene bezoeker van casino's en nachtclubs, ondanks zijn leeftijd. Ferrill meent ook nog het gerucht te moeten verspreiden dat Van der Sloot senior zijn uiterste best doet het politie onderzoek te verstoren door bewijsstukken te laten verdwijnen. Ferrill geeft bij al zijn beweringen aan dat hij zijn informatie heeft van horen zeggen en dat het geruchten zijn, maar sluit zijn e-mail wel af met een oproep om Aruba te boycotten.
- Hoorde ook dat het meisje Natalee twee dagen voor haar verdwijning 10.000 dollar van haar creditcard heeft opgenomen. Een deel van het geld -hoeveel weet ik niet - is terug gevonden in haar paspoort op haar hotelkamer. Maar......er zijn ook berichten dat het meisje zich ergens verborgen houdt want de relatie met haar moeder Beth blijkt niet optimaal! Ben benieuwd wat de komende week voor nieuws zal brengen.
- Paul van der Sloot blijft in elk geval 48 uur vast zitten, dan wordt beslist of dat met 8 dagen wordt verlengd. Zijn zoon Joran geeft nu toe dat hij die nacht alleen is achter gebleven met het meisje op het strand van Marriot. En dat hij Natalee daar heeft achter gelaten. Als dat waar is hoe is hij toen thuis gekomen zonder auto? Overigens zijn vader, een man die de regels van het recht moet volgen en toepassen vindt het geen enkel probleem dat zijn zoon op 17jarige leeftijd auto rijdt -dus niet verzekerd is want hij heeft geen rijbewijs en nachtenlang mag zitten gokken in casino's waar je ook 18 jaar voor moet zijn. Vader gaat er dus heel arrogant van uit dat als daar problemen van komen hij dat 'wel even regelt'. Ik vind dat die man - ook al heeft hij niets gedaan - van het eiland moet worden gezet.
- Volgens een CNN reporter werkt VADER VAN DER SLOOT niet mee tijdens zijn verhoor.
Moeder van der Sloot, -ik heb veel medelijden met haar als ze hier niets vanaf weet - was NIET op het eiland de nacht dat Natalee verdween. Dus hoeft ze ook niets af te weten van wat haar zoon en man die nacht mogelijk hebben gedaan. Ze is alleen veel met zichzelf bezig als slachtoffer als ze voor de televisie praat en klaagt en klaagt dat haar zoon 'zo hard wordt aangepakt' in de gevangenis.
Maar ze vergeet al te makkelijk waar het om gaat: de verdwijning van een meisje!
- Nederland stuurt 3 F-16 straaljagers naar Aruba om naar Natalee te zoeken.Geen idee wat straaljagers kunnen toevoegen aan de zoektocht. Verschillende banken hebben 20.000 dollar gegeven aan het Amerikaanse zoekgezelschap. Maar ze hebben nog nooit een stuiver gegeven voor een Arubaan die zoek was/is.
- Het blijkt dat nu ook een familielid van Natalee is verhoord maar die brak dat verhoor af omdat de vragen 'onfatsoenlijk' waren. Maar het lijkt me normaal dat je iedereen verhoort die dicht bij het meisje staan. Alleen begrijp ik niet dat dit in het huidige stadium van het onderzoek gebeurt en niet eerder. Zijn de bewijzen tegen Joran dat toch niet zo sterk? Ik begrijp er nog steeds geen zak van allemaal.
- Maar de familie van Natalee doet toch al een beetje vreemd vind ik. Ze wonen overigens geheel gratis -door Aruba betaald - in het hotel en voor de rest hebben ze ook alles vrij. Bij elkaar een man of tien inmiddels. En nu willen ze opeens ook 200.000 dollar hebben voor de speurders die uit Amerika zijn gekomen. Terwijl dat nooit de afspraak was. Ik ben bang dat Aruba iets te 'aardig' is op financieel gebied richting familie en dat kon wel eens nog meer ellende gaan opleveren als Aruba straks -heel terecht overigens- ophoudt met betalen. En vergeef me als ik het zeg, ik mag de stiefvader niet en de moeder begint ook een beetje op mijn zenuwen te werken. Notabene is de zoon van die stiefvader een paar jaar geleden ook op Aruba geweest met een schoolklas om wat te vieren en die heeft bij thuiskomst gezegd dat de meisjes 'behoorlijk uit hun dak gingen' in Carlos en Charlies door teveel drank etc. Dat zou toch voldoende moeten zijn om Natalee extra voor te lichten toen ze naar Aruba ging en zeker NOOIT in een auto met drie vreemde mannen moest stappen ook al had ze Joran die avond daarvoor even in een casino ontmoet.
- Helaas gaan Mamma Holloway en de Stiefvader van Natalee door zich niet geliefd te maken. Zo gaat ze met haar man smiddags naar een restaurant en vraagt daar of ze willen participeren in de kosten van hun aanwezigheid door hen savonds een gratis maaltijd aan te bieden. Ze komen met z'n twee-en vragen en natuurlijk zegt de restauranteigenaar dat het goed is. Maar wat een onaangename verrassing voor het restaurant als ze savonds met......ruim dertig mensen komen. Veel eten, veel drinken, veel plezier. Zo leven ze totaal gratis op ons eiland en zijn niet van plan binnen kort te vertrekken. Onbevestigde berichten spreken inmiddels over een levensverzekering van 8 miljoen voor Natalee. En de familie is s'avonds veel in het casino te vinden.
De heer Van Nie schrijft iig wel met zijn hart op de tong.
[ Bericht 15% gewijzigd door BwennieBren op 13-02-2008 01:11:17 ]
http://www.renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch2005.html
Van beneden naar boven lezen dus.
een greep uit zijn berichten van het begin van de verdwijning
- IK WEET DAT DE ARUBAANSE BEVOLKING NIET RACISTISCH IS MAAR DE ACTIE VAN EEN STELLETJE DEBIELE IDIOTEN 'AAN DE TOP' ZOU ONS WEL EENS DE DAS OM KUNNEN DOEN
-Dat dit soort zeer negatieve zaken aan de orde komen via CNN is de schuld van de Nederlandse mevrouw Janssen, u weet wel, dat blonde vrouwtje met dat goedkope permanentje. Weinig representatief voor het hoofd van openbare aanklager/JUSTITIE.
- Kortom, het lijkt me beter dat mevrouwtje Janssen zich nergens meer mee bemoeit en het vliegtuig richting Nederland pakt. Misschien is ze meer op haar plaats naast het man-vrouwtje Verdonk. Heb ik het fout mevrouw Janssen, leg me het dan uit, maar ga in elk geval eerst even naar de kapper en laat die ordi-bos op uw hoofdje fatsoeneren.
- EN IK VRAAG ME AF OF ONZE P.G. EN DE FBI IETS WETEN. WEL OF GEEN BLOED GEVONDEN IN DE AUTO VAN DE DRIE JONGENS?! MOEDER VAN HET MEISJE DIE BLOED HEEFT AFGESTAAN. BLOED DAT NAAR AMERIKA IS GESTUURD IN VERBAND MET DNA. WEL OF GEEN SPEURHOND UIT AMERIKA?!
EN ZO ZITTEN WE HIER MET 80 PERSMENSEN VAN HEEL DE WERELD OP ONS EILAND DIE IN WEZEN NIETS TE MELDEN HEBBEN THUIS. DE REPORTER VAN CNN IS DAAROM NAAR SAN NICOLAS GETOGEN
OM HOERTJES TE FILMEN. BEN BANG DAT DIT VOOR DE 'GELOVIGE' AMERIKAANSE TOERIST EEN REDEN KAN ZIJN VAN ARUBA WEG TE BLIJVEN.
- 1 VAN DE SURINAAMSE JONGENS ZOU TEGEN 1 VAN DE ZWARTE BOYS HEBBEN GEZEGD - ZATEN ZE SAMEN IN EEN CEL OF NAAST ELKAAR?- DAT ZE HET MEISJE SAMEN MET DE HOLLANDSE JONGEN BIJ EEN HEEL ANDER HOTEL HADDEN AFGEZET DAN ZE EERDER HADDEN VERKLAARD.
- Langzaam maar zeker begint de narigheid de overhand te nemen. Ik heb zelf heel veel negatieve info gekregen over o.a. Joran v.d.Sloot en familie maar dat is tot nu toe allemaal onderdeel van het 'fluister' nieuws dus schrijf ik daar niet over. In elk geval nu nog niet tot ik het zeker weet.
- Intussen is via e-mail een lastercampagne begonnen tegen Aruba. Daarin wordt de familie Van der Sloot afgeschilderd als een “volledig disfunctionele, moreel bankroete groep beesten.” Joran wordt daarin in verband gebracht met de productie van pornovideo’s, de groepsverkrachting van een veertienjarig meisje en gewelddadig gedrag tegen zijn klasgenoten. Volgens de afzender, ene Dan Ferrill, is de 17 jarige jongen tot in de grond verwend, rijdt met toestemming van zijn ouders auto en is een veelgeziene bezoeker van casino's en nachtclubs, ondanks zijn leeftijd. Ferrill meent ook nog het gerucht te moeten verspreiden dat Van der Sloot senior zijn uiterste best doet het politie onderzoek te verstoren door bewijsstukken te laten verdwijnen. Ferrill geeft bij al zijn beweringen aan dat hij zijn informatie heeft van horen zeggen en dat het geruchten zijn, maar sluit zijn e-mail wel af met een oproep om Aruba te boycotten.
- Hoorde ook dat het meisje Natalee twee dagen voor haar verdwijning 10.000 dollar van haar creditcard heeft opgenomen. Een deel van het geld -hoeveel weet ik niet - is terug gevonden in haar paspoort op haar hotelkamer. Maar......er zijn ook berichten dat het meisje zich ergens verborgen houdt want de relatie met haar moeder Beth blijkt niet optimaal! Ben benieuwd wat de komende week voor nieuws zal brengen.
- Paul van der Sloot blijft in elk geval 48 uur vast zitten, dan wordt beslist of dat met 8 dagen wordt verlengd. Zijn zoon Joran geeft nu toe dat hij die nacht alleen is achter gebleven met het meisje op het strand van Marriot. En dat hij Natalee daar heeft achter gelaten. Als dat waar is hoe is hij toen thuis gekomen zonder auto? Overigens zijn vader, een man die de regels van het recht moet volgen en toepassen vindt het geen enkel probleem dat zijn zoon op 17jarige leeftijd auto rijdt -dus niet verzekerd is want hij heeft geen rijbewijs en nachtenlang mag zitten gokken in casino's waar je ook 18 jaar voor moet zijn. Vader gaat er dus heel arrogant van uit dat als daar problemen van komen hij dat 'wel even regelt'. Ik vind dat die man - ook al heeft hij niets gedaan - van het eiland moet worden gezet.
- Volgens een CNN reporter werkt VADER VAN DER SLOOT niet mee tijdens zijn verhoor.
Moeder van der Sloot, -ik heb veel medelijden met haar als ze hier niets vanaf weet - was NIET op het eiland de nacht dat Natalee verdween. Dus hoeft ze ook niets af te weten van wat haar zoon en man die nacht mogelijk hebben gedaan. Ze is alleen veel met zichzelf bezig als slachtoffer als ze voor de televisie praat en klaagt en klaagt dat haar zoon 'zo hard wordt aangepakt' in de gevangenis.
Maar ze vergeet al te makkelijk waar het om gaat: de verdwijning van een meisje!
- Nederland stuurt 3 F-16 straaljagers naar Aruba om naar Natalee te zoeken.Geen idee wat straaljagers kunnen toevoegen aan de zoektocht. Verschillende banken hebben 20.000 dollar gegeven aan het Amerikaanse zoekgezelschap. Maar ze hebben nog nooit een stuiver gegeven voor een Arubaan die zoek was/is.
- Het blijkt dat nu ook een familielid van Natalee is verhoord maar die brak dat verhoor af omdat de vragen 'onfatsoenlijk' waren. Maar het lijkt me normaal dat je iedereen verhoort die dicht bij het meisje staan. Alleen begrijp ik niet dat dit in het huidige stadium van het onderzoek gebeurt en niet eerder. Zijn de bewijzen tegen Joran dat toch niet zo sterk? Ik begrijp er nog steeds geen zak van allemaal.
- Maar de familie van Natalee doet toch al een beetje vreemd vind ik. Ze wonen overigens geheel gratis -door Aruba betaald - in het hotel en voor de rest hebben ze ook alles vrij. Bij elkaar een man of tien inmiddels. En nu willen ze opeens ook 200.000 dollar hebben voor de speurders die uit Amerika zijn gekomen. Terwijl dat nooit de afspraak was. Ik ben bang dat Aruba iets te 'aardig' is op financieel gebied richting familie en dat kon wel eens nog meer ellende gaan opleveren als Aruba straks -heel terecht overigens- ophoudt met betalen. En vergeef me als ik het zeg, ik mag de stiefvader niet en de moeder begint ook een beetje op mijn zenuwen te werken. Notabene is de zoon van die stiefvader een paar jaar geleden ook op Aruba geweest met een schoolklas om wat te vieren en die heeft bij thuiskomst gezegd dat de meisjes 'behoorlijk uit hun dak gingen' in Carlos en Charlies door teveel drank etc. Dat zou toch voldoende moeten zijn om Natalee extra voor te lichten toen ze naar Aruba ging en zeker NOOIT in een auto met drie vreemde mannen moest stappen ook al had ze Joran die avond daarvoor even in een casino ontmoet.
- Helaas gaan Mamma Holloway en de Stiefvader van Natalee door zich niet geliefd te maken. Zo gaat ze met haar man smiddags naar een restaurant en vraagt daar of ze willen participeren in de kosten van hun aanwezigheid door hen savonds een gratis maaltijd aan te bieden. Ze komen met z'n twee-en vragen en natuurlijk zegt de restauranteigenaar dat het goed is. Maar wat een onaangename verrassing voor het restaurant als ze savonds met......ruim dertig mensen komen. Veel eten, veel drinken, veel plezier. Zo leven ze totaal gratis op ons eiland en zijn niet van plan binnen kort te vertrekken. Onbevestigde berichten spreken inmiddels over een levensverzekering van 8 miljoen voor Natalee. En de familie is s'avonds veel in het casino te vinden.
De heer Van Nie schrijft iig wel met zijn hart op de tong.
[ Bericht 15% gewijzigd door BwennieBren op 13-02-2008 01:11:17 ]
Ik ben niet labiel. Ik ben emotioneel flexibel.
So you actually think that if this cover-up involving the gangrape of Miss Holloway by a couple of teenagers and leading to her death, which is entangeld with the widespread corruption on the Dutch Antilles, will surfice then Balkenende IV'll crash, Wilders'll win the elections, resulting in an Dutch govt lead by Wilders? And then the Dutch Antilles'll be sold on marktplaats and bought by Chavez, on which the US'll intervene?quote:Op dinsdag 12 februari 2008 21:31 schreef Caesu het volgende:
[..]
staat ook meer op het spel dan wij allemaal in kunnen zien.
bijvoorbeeld:
als naar buiten komt hoe smerig dit hele zaakje is zal het kabinet Balkenende niet meer geloofwaardig zijn.
komen er verkiezingen, en wie wint er dan: Wilders.
de enige partij die de Antillen / Aruba corrupt durft te noemen en op e-bay wou zetten en zich uitsprak over Natalee.
http://www.geertwilders.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=103
http://www.telegraaf.nl/b(...)llen_afgelast__.html
verder is er een redelijke kans dat Aruba de onafhankelijkheid uitspreekt.
in 1986 was afgesproken dat dat binnen 10 jaar zou gebeuren.
Croes is niet trots op z'n Nederlandse paspoort en hij en Oduber nemen af en toe het woord onafhankelijkheid weer in de mond.
stel dat het nu gebeurt zal Joran nooit berecht worden op Aruba en stopt de subside van Nederland en zinkt het eiland nog verder in de modder.
goeie kans dat Chávez dan eindelijk z'n droom waar maakt en een eiland erbij pikt.
dat vindt Amerika weer niet leuk want Venezuela schuift dan iets dichter op naar Amerika.
kortom er zijn een hoop redenen om de doofpot in stand te houden te verzinnen.
de gevestigde media hebben ook niet zoveel zin in Wilders.
daarom wordt er niet over bericht.
het is onbegrijpelijk dat het belangrijke bezoek van Balkenende naar de Antillen en Aruba amper in het nieuws is.
http://www.minaz.nl/Actue(...)se_Antillen_en_Aruba
.I personally think that neither our govt nor the US govt is interested in this case.
I´m back.
Is ther a website that has 50cm to 20 cm satalite Imagry of aruba?
Google looks to be 1 meter, and maps.live.com doesnt even have the entire island,
Date isnt really a big isue, anything after 2002 would do.
Google looks to be 1 meter, and maps.live.com doesnt even have the entire island,
Date isnt really a big isue, anything after 2002 would do.
Welcome Mr. President, How can we serve you,
If you'll kill a girl after gangraping her with you're buddies, you'll phone your dad?quote:Op woensdag 13 februari 2008 00:30 schreef Donnie29 het volgende:
Er is gewoon veel fout gegaan in het onderzoek, verdachten niet gelijk vastgezet maar eerst tijd gegeven om iets te doen? Verder heel veel nieuws de wereld in gegooid allemaal via officiele bronnen, en dan toch weer ontkend. Zoals dat Joran had opgebiecht en de politie wilde lijden naar het lichaam.. Dat werd een dag erna ook weer terug getrokken. Dan het gelieg van Joran Deepak en Satish.. Al die dingen laten mij wel zien dat er iets niet klopt en dat er mensen zijn die zeker meer weten.. Van wie kreeg Joran hulp? De naam die die mee zou nemen in zn graf.. wie bel je als je 17 bent en je bent in paniek? Je vader zeer waarschijnlijk.. Alleen paniek komt weer niet overeen met wat Joran zelf tegen Patrick zegt. En of hij nou lult of niet, hij is op internet gegaan, heeft gesmst, heeft zn schoenen weggegooid.. Kortom genoeg om AAN te kunnen nemen dat er iets niet echt klopt.
'Hey dad, listen we've just raped this girl, my buddies and me, and we gave her a blow on the head, and now she's dead, can you help us out please?' And Paul answered: 'Oh, sure kiddo, I waste her in the ocean, that's what oceans are for, aren't they?'
Anyway according to observer's theory he didn't had to phone his father, did he hey? The gangraping took place either in the car of Deepak or at joran's den, in the garden of the Van der Sloot estate.
[ Bericht 4% gewijzigd door Ryan3 op 13-02-2008 01:09:59 ]
I´m back.
i don't necessarily think that is going to happen.quote:Op woensdag 13 februari 2008 00:40 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
So you actually think that if this cover-up involving the gangrape of Miss Holloway by a couple of teenagers and leading to her death, which is entangeld with the widespread corruption on the Dutch Antilles, will surfice then Balkenende IV'll crash, Wilders'll win the elections, resulting in an Dutch govt lead by Wilders? And then the Dutch Antilles'll be sold on marktplaats and bought by Chavez, on which the US'll intervene?
I personally think that neither our govt nor the US govt is interested in this case.
i am just saying in that region there are a lot more interests than just joran van der sloot.
it is not the quietest part of the world.
if aruba was lying just of the coast of antarctica it would have been an whole different story.
just yesterday chávez was threatening to cut the oil supply to the usa for example.
i am sure chávez has never heard about joran. but IF all of a sudden a corruption scandal comes to light on aruba, i am sure he will take notice.
maybe i am writing in a way that i think that this is really going to happen.
well, i doubt that is going to happen - because it is in a lot of parties interest that it is NOT going to happen.
governments have always a lot of plans ready in case something is going happen.
like contingency plans in case this happens, and that party does that - and then this etc.
for example, the usa had since 1930 'war plan red' ready to attack canada!
http://www.washingtonpost(...)005122901412_pf.html
top-secret: declassified in the seventies.
i am sure countries, especially in volatile regions have a lot of contingency plans ready for all kind of scenario's.
remember venezuela is part of the 'beyond the axis of evil' group.
the usa is waging a so called 'war on drugs' in colombia.
to quote joran: "Joran Forc@ Barc@!! Schaak Master, altijd 1 stap voor"
i am just trying to think how this could turn out.
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Caesu op 13-02-2008 01:38:40 ]
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
I haven't given you my full theory yetquote:Op woensdag 13 februari 2008 00:49 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
If you'll kill a girl after gangraping her with you're buddies, you'll phone your dad?
'Hey dad, listen we've just raped this girl, my buddies and me, and we gave her a blow on the head, and now she's dead, can you help us out please?' And Paul answered: 'Oh, sure kiddo, I waste her in the ocean, that's what oceans are for, aren't they?'
Anyway according to observer's theory he didn't had to phone his father, did he hey? The gangraping took place either in the car of Deepak or at joran's den, in the garden of the Van der Sloot estate.
It is backed up from reading most everything ever put out on this case in the last 32 months. How long have you followed this case by the way? You seem like a smart guy ryan,I wish you knew what I know. Even the Dr.Hodges guy is a smart guy but he's basing his assumptions off of just a few video tapes,a few pv's and a couple of emails. He has missed a lot about this case.[ Bericht 1% gewijzigd door observer777 op 13-02-2008 01:43:27 ]
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
Maybe it's for the best that he won't get convicted. Imagine Joran getting convicted by Dutch law after going trough all this. He would proberbly only get a few years, considering that it's proberbly second degree murder at best, all the negative attention that he got and his age at that time.
Imagine him getting three years minus 1/3th of the punishment (the obligatory conditional part) minus the time he already spend in detention. Natalee's mother would die on the inside if he'll go to jail for murder for only one year. Especially if they are expecting punishment to American standards such as a life sentence or death row.
It would also make Aruba look even more retarded.
Imagine him getting three years minus 1/3th of the punishment (the obligatory conditional part) minus the time he already spend in detention. Natalee's mother would die on the inside if he'll go to jail for murder for only one year.
Especially if they are expecting punishment to American standards such as a life sentence or death row.It would also make Aruba look even more retarded.
Dan hoopt gij vurige kolen op zijn hoofd.
I think the parents just want the truth and to lay there daughter to rest back home. They would love to see justice after the hell they have been through but I believe they think they will not get it. I can't imagine those people who were responsible ever getting what they truly deserve.quote:Op woensdag 13 februari 2008 01:31 schreef Gabry het volgende:
Maybe it's for the best that he won't get convicted. Imagine Joran getting convicted by Dutch law after going trough all this. He would proberbly only get a few years, considering that it's proberbly second degree murder at best, all the negative attention that he got and his age at that time.
Imagine him getting three years minus 1/3th of the punishment (the obligatory conditional part) minus the time he already spend in detention. Natalee's mother would die on the inside if he'll go to jail for murder for only one year.
It would also make Aruba look even more retarded.
Natalee Holloway~"I Will Remember You"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inn0A0m8hfM&watch_response
Natalee Holloway - Have You Seen Her
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z5T9oUoQBbk
"I lied and that's the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot--
I haven't found anything yet. I was looking for satellite images of Aruba from 2005, since Google Earth has them from 2008 already. The only thing i found sofar are the low-res versions at Digital Globe, but you'd have to order the high-res ones and they won't be cheap, i reckon... I also paged through hundreds of photo's found via Google, and visited various web-sites, but nothing usable has come up so far. Post a message if you can do better...quote:Op woensdag 13 februari 2008 00:46 schreef WallOfStars het volgende:
Is ther a website that has 50cm to 20 cm satalite Imagry of aruba?
Google looks to be 1 meter, and maps.live.com doesnt even have the entire island,
Date isnt really a big isue, anything after 2002 would do.
[snip]quote:Op woensdag 13 februari 2008 00:31 schreef BwennieBren het volgende:
Die site van Rene van Nie (die de vader is van Nada van Nie overigens), die Observer in een vorig topic heeft gegeven, is toch wel grappig om te lezen. Vanaf 2005 beschrijft hij als local zo'n beetje wat er allemaal gaande is in de Holloway zaak.
Is inderdaad heel gaaf! Had de vorige keer niet goed gekeken...
Dank hiervoor!
Article in the dutch newspaper AD and translated on another board by IC:
Drugexperts weighing Jorans words.
Aruba - Drugexpersts are investigating the reliability of the statements of Joran van der Sloot on Aruba.
The experts have been asked to do so by the DA.
Joran stated last friday during a hearing that his "confessions" concerning the disapearance of Natalee Holloway in the tv program of Peter R. de Vries were made up under the influence of marihuana.
According to Dop Kruimel, pressofficer on Aruba, first findings of the experts and users don't indicate someone makes stories up when he has used drugs. "With that the story of Joran is important supportive evidence in our further investigation. We are also waiting for reports of experts about the way Natalee Holloway died according to Joran".
The DA on Aruba has put 25 investigators on the Holloway case after the Peter R. de Vries broadcast. Before the broadcast there were only four.
According to Kruimel the DA has received many tips through mail and email. Kruimel: "We surely think it's possible to solve the case".
The past week the investigators started to work with the indications Joran himself gave and with the many tips that have come in.
Kruimel doesn't want to say what's been worked at.
Kruimel denies the vision of attorney Spong that the undercover footage is illegal and thus can't be used in a courtcase.
http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2047709.ece
Drugexperts weighing Jorans words.
Aruba - Drugexpersts are investigating the reliability of the statements of Joran van der Sloot on Aruba.
The experts have been asked to do so by the DA.
Joran stated last friday during a hearing that his "confessions" concerning the disapearance of Natalee Holloway in the tv program of Peter R. de Vries were made up under the influence of marihuana.
According to Dop Kruimel, pressofficer on Aruba, first findings of the experts and users don't indicate someone makes stories up when he has used drugs. "With that the story of Joran is important supportive evidence in our further investigation. We are also waiting for reports of experts about the way Natalee Holloway died according to Joran".
The DA on Aruba has put 25 investigators on the Holloway case after the Peter R. de Vries broadcast. Before the broadcast there were only four.
According to Kruimel the DA has received many tips through mail and email. Kruimel: "We surely think it's possible to solve the case".
The past week the investigators started to work with the indications Joran himself gave and with the many tips that have come in.
Kruimel doesn't want to say what's been worked at.
Kruimel denies the vision of attorney Spong that the undercover footage is illegal and thus can't be used in a courtcase.
http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2047709.ece
@Observer
Body in tarp
http://www.topix.net/forum/world/aruba/TGRFIO1T4LBUJRFU2
Bone
I don't know how big that paper is but it surely looks like a peilican bone.
Body in tarp
I found this regarding the tarpquote:Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 07:53 schreef observer777 het volgende:
<snap>
Tarp seen in picture on NE part of the island..Is this insignificant or something to do with the case?This was the area by the Natural Bridge. PVDS was spotted near here by searchers early in the morning after they found the belt.
http://www.topix.net/forum/world/aruba/TGRFIO1T4LBUJRFU2
quote:Concerned wrote:
I was in Aruba this passed Easter, I never saw the image until I returned home and down loaded my camera.I was standing on a clif taking a picture of a hugh crab,looking at the crab only so I wouldn't fall over the egde. When I down loaded the picture about 25 feet away seems to be a body wrapped in a blue blanket, at one end seems to be duct tape. At the opened end what appears to be a head nestled in the rocks, with the top of the head stright down, chin up with hyperextended neck. This image is so upsetting not only to me but to family and friends who have also seen it. We have tried to reach any authority that will at least look at the image, but only get the run around. It seems that either they think I'm some kind of nut, or really don't want to bother.I am not saying that this is Natalee, nor have I ever said it is , or could be her, just view the image and go find out who or what it it. Well nobody wants to listen so I imagine that's the way this whole case goes also.Any leads that they may get, never get investigated. Thanks for listening as I suppose that by now whatever, or whoever is in the image has been taken back out to sea. Whatever, but so very sad. I can send the image to whoever wants to see it Thanks again for listening
So what was it?quote:Concerned wrote:
Will send to all, there is a lot of moving the image left and right to center. So zoom in to the left it looks like duct tape that is comming apart, appears that the body? is down slope with head almost up side down top of head resting in rock, chin up hyper extented neck. Remember that the body?? is wrapped in the blue thing! I have to leave for work,but will get the image out as soon as I return. Also Americas Most Wanted asked for the image that went out last night, I'll let you know what happens
Bone
I compared the bone with a pelican bone:quote:Op zondag 10 februari 2008 07:53 schreef observer777 het volgende:
One of the bones found in 2005 that we never heard anything about. We were told this was a monkey bone or a prop. This was found in the closest part of the Venezuelan coast to Aruba.
I don't know how big that paper is but it surely looks like a peilican bone.
Ik ben niet labiel. Ik ben emotioneel flexibel.
YWquote:Op woensdag 13 februari 2008 01:57 schreef kabouterjong het volgende:
[..]
[snip]
Is inderdaad heel gaaf! Had de vorige keer niet goed gekeken...
Echt, die man schrijft best grappig en ook gewoon wat hij denkt
en daarbij ontziet hij geen van de partijen 
Iedereen wordt aangepakt
Ik ben niet labiel. Ik ben emotioneel flexibel.
this is from 2005, overflights
http://community.webshots.com/album/263351571mCGylP
But not the entire island en some angels need to be changed.
http://community.webshots.com/album/263351571mCGylP
But not the entire island en some angels need to be changed.
Welcome Mr. President, How can we serve you,
Older US article but nevertheless important info on the AD article:
"A lot of people on tv are afraid to say it, but I'm not: I think there's more to it, " says Dave Holloway.
He suspects van der Sloot slipped Natalee drugs - a common practice in Aruba's night clubs. Holloway says a detective warned him about it the first day he arrived in Aruba.
"He repeatedly told us, and I'll never forget: He says watch your drink around here because drugs are prevalent and somebody may slip something into it," says Holloway.
One of the more common drugs in Aruba: GHB, also known as the Date Rape Drug in America, but in Aruba it's commonly used as a party drug, one you can even order at some bars.
"You can buy a drink and pay a bartender $25, and he'll put it in it, " says Holloway.
In his confession, van der Sloot described Natalee's condition on the beach that night: trembling, that turned into shaking and then nothing...an unconscious state van der Sloot says he couldn't wake Natalee from... symptoms Samford University's Dr. Pam Sims says could describe someone who's been given GHB.
"Generally when they pass out, it looks like a coma. They are not arousable. That is generally caused because they're blood pressure drops so low, " says Dr. Pam Sims, Pharmacy Chair at Samford University.
In his confession, van der Sloot says he checked to see if Natalee was dead before deciding to drop her in the ocean, but Dr. Sims warns that's a call van der Sloot wasn't qualified to make.
"Lay people may not be able to detect pulses that are very faint or breathing that's very shallow or irregular," says Dr. Sims.
If van der Sloot's confession is true - Natalee may have been alive when she was thrown into the ocean.
"He claims he shook her and she didn't arouse- that doesn't mean she's dead, " says Dr. Sims.
http://www.nbc13.com/gulf(...)2008-02-07-0007.html
"A lot of people on tv are afraid to say it, but I'm not: I think there's more to it, " says Dave Holloway.
He suspects van der Sloot slipped Natalee drugs - a common practice in Aruba's night clubs. Holloway says a detective warned him about it the first day he arrived in Aruba.
"He repeatedly told us, and I'll never forget: He says watch your drink around here because drugs are prevalent and somebody may slip something into it," says Holloway.
One of the more common drugs in Aruba: GHB, also known as the Date Rape Drug in America, but in Aruba it's commonly used as a party drug, one you can even order at some bars.
"You can buy a drink and pay a bartender $25, and he'll put it in it, " says Holloway.
In his confession, van der Sloot described Natalee's condition on the beach that night: trembling, that turned into shaking and then nothing...an unconscious state van der Sloot says he couldn't wake Natalee from... symptoms Samford University's Dr. Pam Sims says could describe someone who's been given GHB.
"Generally when they pass out, it looks like a coma. They are not arousable. That is generally caused because they're blood pressure drops so low, " says Dr. Pam Sims, Pharmacy Chair at Samford University.
In his confession, van der Sloot says he checked to see if Natalee was dead before deciding to drop her in the ocean, but Dr. Sims warns that's a call van der Sloot wasn't qualified to make.
"Lay people may not be able to detect pulses that are very faint or breathing that's very shallow or irregular," says Dr. Sims.
If van der Sloot's confession is true - Natalee may have been alive when she was thrown into the ocean.
"He claims he shook her and she didn't arouse- that doesn't mean she's dead, " says Dr. Sims.
http://www.nbc13.com/gulf(...)2008-02-07-0007.html
Enhanced the picture and rotated it for better angel of the bag.
http://rapidshare.com/files/91346786/arubasbody.jpg.html
http://rapidshare.com/files/91346786/arubasbody.jpg.html
Welcome Mr. President, How can we serve you,
I do believe that they are mainly interested in the truth so they can finally let all this rest. But Joran actually getting convicted and getting a low punishment would be another setback for them. They would be denied justice even after finding out the truth. But then again, it would atleast give the parents some more certainty.quote:Op woensdag 13 februari 2008 01:41 schreef observer777 het volgende:
[..]
I think the parents just want the truth and to lay there daughter to rest back home. They would love to see justice after the hell they have been through but I believe they think they will not get it. I can't imagine those people who were responsible ever getting what they truly deserve.
But Joran's confession might've helped them a bit with getting the general idea of what happened that night. His confession sounded quite genuine to me. He wouldn't have told Patrick that if he wouldn't have anything to do with it. So it is pretty certain that he was with her when she died and that she got disposed of in the ocean. Otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned himself being involved in that.
But even when talking to your closest friends people tend to hide important details that might make them look bad. The story was pretty one sided so it would be unlikely that he didn't lie or exaggerated about what happened beforehand, her actual condition and about who actually disposed of the her body. Joran isn't an idiot and he knows that he can't be convicted if they can't even fully determine which crime he would have comitted. So I wouldn't be suprised if the ending of his confession was meant to spread more doubts and raise some more questions.
Dan hoopt gij vurige kolen op zijn hoofd.
if they give him TBS he won't ever get out.quote:Op woensdag 13 februari 2008 01:31 schreef Gabry het volgende:
Maybe it's for the best that he won't get convicted. Imagine Joran getting convicted by Dutch law after going trough all this. He would proberbly only get a few years, considering that it's proberbly second degree murder at best, all the negative attention that he got and his age at that time.
Imagine him getting three years minus 1/3th of the punishment (the obligatory conditional part) minus the time he already spend in detention. Natalee's mother would die on the inside if he'll go to jail for murder for only one year.
It would also make Aruba look even more retarded.
psychiatrist will examine him each year, the media will play those tapes and be outraged again and they won't set him free to roam around and cause havoc.
joran his learned a lot from the last few years. he knows wich errors he made.
so if the 'new and improved joran' gets out he will know how to murder and rape perfectly.
i think TBS is the key. let international psychiatrists spend some time with him and observe him.
fyi: watch bram bakker's opinion about joran:
http://www.hetgesprek.nl/archief/673/ (in dutch)
interesting thing is that such personality disorders are often genetic. who would have thought...
Dostojewski: "Je kunt je niet van je eigen gezond verstand overtuigen door je buurman op te sluiten."
