Natalee Holloway (in the rebound) #4

[NS: added to the OP, thanks]

[ Bericht 97% gewijzigd door NorthernStar op 09-02-2008 01:14:50 ]

Btw that Aruba Dirty Police web site is quite slenderous, isn't it. Paul van der Sloot is depicted as 'scum of the earth; the man who can't zip his fly (photo included), a rapist and murderer'. That's rich. .

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 10:51 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

I never heard she had a relationship at the time NH dissapeared! They had a relationship last year,but Beth says they are just friends now.

Ah all right, they did have a relationship but not at the time and not anymore.

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 10:49 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

Hi,
I never said it had to do with this case,although it is possible but I have no idea. They asked me more about it,so I told them part of what I know. I think theres a good chance they were both murdered after speaking to her family and hearing and seeing what happened,BTW that lady is dutch! I am assuming you read what I posted yesterday at SM? I don't know what the one hand in the pocket means,I would be guessing since they posted in the front page of the newspaper for everyone to see,Maybe a warning? What did you think about it?

I know the lady is Dutch But what do you mean by "her family"? Natalee's family? Yes I gave read your post on SM yesterday, but I stopped halfway cause it was too late. I haven't made a bookmark from where I stopped reading so that's why I asking you now..

I'm trying to find out what it means, can't find much though and yes I find it very strange, although I really don't think it has much to do with the Holloway- case but more has to do with some drugscartel in ABC islands maybe? I haven't got a clue..

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 10:29 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]

Don't get confused, those statements are wrongly quoted and defenitely not in that order.
Check the PDF here to see what really was said:
http://judicial-inc.biz/arubaTranscript3.pdf

Well, don't worry I'm not confused , I'm just trying to catch up with the case. I haven't did that the last 1 1/2 year due to sickness.... And yes, I would like to base my opinion on legal documents and statements in this case as well.

BTW wat is FOK toch weer retetraag vandaag

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 10:56 schreef Nielsch het volgende:
When reading those police transcripts I get the feeling that especially Deepak (and possibly Satish) knows more about this case than we expect. They also give me the feeling that Joran made up everything we saw on the De Vries tapes.

To understand what they are talking about, you really really have to read http://hollowaycase.com/archive/ all of the police statements.
First time I read the things they said to eichother it sounded all weird, but actualy the brothers are just saying they helped Joran lying because he asked them to do, and they did not meant to frame his father they just brought up that his father told them if there was no body then the case wouldn't really be that strong against them.

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 10:59 schreef Nielsch het volgende:
And who is Freddie?

Freddie is a good friend of Joran.
Freddy was the only one who knew Joran and the brothers did not drop off Natalee at the hotel. neo f the brothers assumes that he even knows more than that because freddy always knows Joran's secrets since they where kids.

By the way, freddy also told Joran's father that Joran lied about the hotel drop off, and since then Paulus also knew it was a lie.
As far as I know he didn't knew that untill that point.

Natalee Holloway topic for our English speaking users

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 10:59 schreef Nielsch het volgende:
And who is Freddie?

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ARAMBATZIS, Freddy Alexander Zedan – age 21, AKA Freddy Arambatzis-Zedan. Best friend of and neighbor of JVDS and reported guest at the VDS house the night of Natalee’s disappearance. Arrested 8-26-06 under suspicion of intentionally distributing and showing sexual images of a minor, intercourse with someone he knows is unconscious, and sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years. (a.k.a. Locoman Pimp,” a.k.a. “badboy_956,” a.k.a. “Freddy Zedan” nickname “Fefi”). Listed as a character witness for Joran in NY civil trial filing by Tacopina. Freddy has worked at Champions Bar at the Marriott Hotel. According to several declarations, Joran told Freddy the truth of the evening and the story told to police on 5-31-05. Joran met Freddy when Freddy was 19 during a tournament at the Racquetball Club, according to Joran’s book.

Bron

Of die bron betrouwbaar is week nie...

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 05:34 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

[..]

I think we are talking on different levels here.

Sure, I believe in rule by law. When its not a rigged game that is..

Personally, I find a sense of justice in hearing that Joran is in hiding eversince the broadcast.

And ofcourse everything is rigged and so you don't believe in rule by our law?
Deze verklaring geeft precies aan hoe de complotdenker redeneert natuurlijk. Er is een wereld, achter de zichtbare wereld, waarin alles wat onverklaarbaar blijft in de zichtbare wereld een puzzle-stukje is in een groter wereldomvattend plan.

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 11:07 schreef observer777 het volgende:
..

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On May 29th 2005, at approximately 16.00 hours, I went with Joran to the “Free Carribean Stud Tournament” in the Holiday Inn. During the break, at approximately 18.30 hours, I went back home. My youngest son Sebastian, who was playing at a friends house, was due to be dropped off at home around that time. Joran, with my permission, took over my seat because he had been eliminated earlier. We had agreed that he would call me after the tournament, in order for me to come and pick him up. He did indeed call me and at approximately 23.00 hour I picked him up near the McDonalds on Palm Beach with my red Suzuki. We drove home and I went to bed. I presumed he also had gone to bed. Afterwards we found out that he had gone out to Carlos & Charlies without my permission.

On May 30th 2005, in the nightly hours, I did not pick up Joran from anywhere. I slept solidly through the night without waking up.

Source: http://hollowaycase.com/archive/police_documents/pvds618.htm

That's all I can find of Paulus about his statement that night.
Nothing that says he met Natalee.

Eventough I've seen the camera images and i'm positive that he is sitting there at the table, I still have no clue about the other statement where he sayd he did met Natalee.

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 11:10 schreef Surveillance-Fiets het volgende:
Natalee Holloway topic for our English speaking users

Not smart to suddenly move over to a different chain of topics.

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 11:19 schreef Ticker het volgende:

[..]



Not smart to suddenly move over to a different chain of topics.

No, we don't have to move Please continue here!

That case of the suicide of the producer and the camera man is very distrubing. I gather there was a police investigation?

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 11:39 schreef observer777 het volgende:

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You are positive thats him at the table huh? I am not positive but I think its him! You realize he said he went home two hours earlier right? Joran at that time in his statements says he was still in the tourney. He also said Joran took his place in that tournament and said he won money and placed 4th? Well that never happened!! Joran lost his seat and his dads! It's very important in the timeline,because PVDS says he went to the bank twice the next day to deposit Joran's winnings. We have a lot of unnacounted time. Also Joran was 17 and it was illegal to be gambling and it is illegal to takes someones place in a tourney,well at least all the casino's I have been to and heard about.

You have to understand that Jan VDS and Dennis Jacobs were really dirty,statements were changed,destroyed or witnesses never gave statements. PVDS himself was allowed to change his son's statements and they had the case files what others were saying. We heard how mad Rudy Croes was that PVDS was caught in wiretaps,probably with JAN VDS,we know in Joran's book they talked frequently on the phone,no denying they were close friends. Plus that PV I dont think is the full Interrogation but just a part of it. It sure pays to have a best friend as a police commissioner,friends in the ALE,know all the prosecuters and even the judges and Govt officials.

Still these are at the moment just accusations.
These accusations make the story turn into a big cover-up where in the end Paulus did it.
And that's something I really do not see at this point. I mean he sure did help Joran on his way but not dump the body and stuff.
Again, there is no statement made by paulus that he picked up Natalee and Joran, at this point I can say, that clame is bullshit.
I even searched SM for it completely with the words:
Natalee Paulus Car
Natalee PVDS picked- (picked up)
Natalee Paulus picked
etc

The only thing I came up with is this:
http://scaredmonkeys.net/(...)3;topicseen#msg61873

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In that interview where Paulus corrects himself about the phone calls after the official end of the interview, he and the guy for Dutch TV were talking about Joran having called Paulus allegedly at 11 and that is the big deal to have Paulus on record denying having told Beth and the others it was not 11 but 4 when he picked "them" up at McDonald's

Still don't see anything shocking. Except a fucked up timeframe and maybe a 17 year old who won money (bigtime) where he wasn't allowed to? Possibility.

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 11:45 schreef observer777 het volgende:

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No there wasnt! When they arrived in Aruba from Holland the cop in charge of her case called in sick everyday! They went home with nothing,except a old poem. When I researched this all,I saw what a reporter in Aruba was saying about her and they were all stinking lies. What can they do about it? I gave them Peter R'S Email,But I think they should wait a while until he is not so busy. Also they need to research more. I wouldn't be as suspicious if the same thing didn't happen to her camera man two weeks later with one hand in his pocket.

yeah I saw that picture of the girl who framed that sex network or something.
People do not hang themself out in the open that way.

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 11:54 schreef observer777 het volgende:

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Yes,No statement from his PV's that I have seen either. Bullshit? How can you argue with the Supreme Court of Aruba? It's right in front of you! They are the ones saying it,It was Nico Jorg and the Prosecuters that had this info..Not me! It was printed in the Newspaper,I am amazed you call that BS! Why do you think PVDS lost his case on appeal? Where do you think that came from? You think I am making this shit up?

If you've read the article then you can give the link here.
The link you gave before was an site from Aruba.. i'm from Holland, and using bablefish spanish-english doesn't translate it.

It's not that I don't believe you but you're not backing it up!

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 12:20 schreef observer777 het volgende:

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Well thats where this all took place was Aruba!! Of course it was in Papi!! You are really missing the point here,PVDS and Joran have been protected since the beginning and the last thing that Aruban Govt wants is the truth to come out. Sure I backed it up and I am done with this subject! I gave you several sources even the courts of Aruba! Natalee's Mother,ALE,NIco Jorg,The Prosecuters and others all said this! Are they lying also? Nico Jorg spoke out about PVDS,but I forget all what he said. PVDS then said the cops were idiots and he said 11PM,but other times he said others heard wrong because he was directing his words to those same cops and not the others that were there that night. But as you read there was also wiretaps and other sources

Papiamento transltor
http://www.donamaro.nl/papiamentu/

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/ (Maybee it's here also)

A source is not a person where you heard it from.
With a source is meant hard-evidence like an article or some real documents.
Don't act like i'm blaming you anything, I just like to see your quotes backed-up instaid of sending me on the internet to look for it myself.
By the way.. you still are doing it cause you are giving me a link and saying maybe it's on there, look for it yourself.

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 04:00 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Forensic Investigators at the VDS home in 2007. Is this a clue what he was measuring? Did Natalee pass away or was injured at the VDS home?
[ afbeelding ]

I don't like the way you are posting this.
Why are you stating (posting) this or asking yourself or asking us? This questions.
My opinion is, that if you are posting this you must at least give some facts that support your questions.

Now it looks like you are trying to push us in a direction.

I think you saw this interview from the paul&witteman show on 11-01-2008. The wine incident was right after the show.
If you do not understand dutch its very difficult to judge the interview, and of course it is different watching this after the 'confession'. But maybe it reveals some 'things' about the case. I am not going to speculate about it here because I am searching for facts.

I am busy reading the 'proces verbaal' of the suspects. 2 questions for you:
- Where is the 'proces verbaal of 'Freddy Zedan'?
- Why is it that there are dutch words in some of the english text on the images with text on S.monkey?

[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door ZoneKill op 08-02-2008 12:55:28 ]

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 12:38 schreef ZoneKill het volgende:

I am busy reading the 'proces verbaal' of the suspects. 2 questions for you:
- Where is the 'proces verbaal of 'Freddy Zedan'?
- Why is it that there are dutch words in some of the english text on the images with text on S.monkey?

I think some of those where off the record or the public did not get their hands on it.

And suddenly it's getting a bit of a twisted again...
Maybe this site does have some nice stuff.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-12-04T13%3A53%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=20

[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Ticker op 08-02-2008 12:57:36 ]

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 11:45 schreef observer777 het volgende:

[..]

No there wasnt! When they arrived in Aruba from Holland the cop in charge of her case called in sick everyday! They went home with nothing,except a old poem. When I researched this all,I saw what a reporter in Aruba was saying about her and they were all stinking lies. What can they do about it? I gave them Peter R'S Email,But I think they should wait a while until he is not so busy. Also they need to research more. I wouldn't be as suspicious if the same thing didn't happen to her camera man two weeks later with one hand in his pocket.

What I can find on the internet is a curiuos conversation on an Aruban bullitin board. A user called Lako wants to know who her landlord is, on 12/30/06 18:46. Vew days after the suicide.
http://aruba.prikpagina.nl/read.php?f=2308&i=10671&t=10671
User Jiskefet finds that 'raar', which can be translated in: 'odd'.
And later in the same thread the daughter of Brigit Katelaan, called Kimberley, wants to know whether someone knew her mother.

Furthermore I learn that she made some documentaries about a ring of prostitution in some villages of Aruba.
And she made some reports about illegal drag races, on Curacao.

Nothing that's directly linked to the Holloway case.

[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Ryan3 op 08-02-2008 13:26:47 ]

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 14:14 schreef observer777 het volgende:
Very well made video from a person from Holland

Natalee Holloway - Have You Seen Her
http://youtube.com/watch?v=z5T9oUoQBbk

Jeeez, you're not asleep
Sleep is also important you know...

Look at this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YA3NKpGHnqc

It shows Natalee and Joran both entering the casino, alone.

The funny thing is, the casino camera above the table says it's about 20:25.

The camera aimed at the door, shows Joran entering at 19:51.
This same camera shows on 20:58 that Natalee enters the casino.

What's up with the time differents.

08 Februari 2008
OM wil debat na uitzending De Vries
Voorzitter Brouwer van het college van procureurs-generaal wil een debat over de rol van burgers bij opsporing van strafbare feiten. Brouwer vindt de kritiek op Peter R. de Vries hypocriet. Hij zegt dat in een gesprek met Trouw.

De hoogste baas van het Openbaar Ministerie wil bijvoorbeeld weten hoe ver burgers daarbij mogen gaan. Hij zegt dit naar aanleiding van de uitzending van De Vries over de zaak-Holloway.

Brouwer vindt dat De Vries vakwerk heeft geleverd, maar vraagt zich af waar de grenzen liggen. Het OM gaat onderzoek doen naar de betrokkenheid van burgers bij het opsporen van verdachten.

bron NOS

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Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 15:07 schreef Ticker het volgende:
Look at this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YA3NKpGHnqc

It shows Natalee and Joran both entering the casino, alone.

The funny thing is, the casino camera above the table says it's about 20:25.

The camera aimed at the door, shows Joran entering at 19:51.
This same camera shows on 20:58 that Natalee enters the casino.

What's up with the time differents.

Natalee went in and out the casino maybe? Also strange, according to one of Natalee's friends, Ruth McVey:

quote from http://scrux.com/natalee/mbinterview.htm

quote:

Greta Van Susteren: Do you remember about what time on Sunday May 29th that you went to the casino?

Ruth McVey: It was around ten, nine-thirty, ten..

Video says not so...

So it should be clear that PvdS was leaving earlier, cause it on tape (anyone every see this tape)?

Another American Girl Missing with Aruba Connection just seven years ago

While Aruba does damage control over fears that their tourism industry may suffer, reports have surfaced that Natalee Holloway is not the only young American girl to disappear there.
Another family said they know exactly what the parents of Natalee Holloway, the Alabama teenager who has been missing in Aruba since last week, are going through.

They've been dealing with the same nightmare for seven years.

The Bradleys, of Virginia, went on a cruise in 1998 and Aruba was one of the stops. That's where their daughter disappeared.

Iva Bradley said her 23-year-old daughter, Amy, befriended three men who worked on the cruise ship and they wanted to take her to a bar in Aruba.
"They said they wanted to take her to a bar on Aruba that was called Carlos and Charlie's," said Bradley.
this is amy
Natalee Holloway spent her last night ALSO eating and dancing at Carlos 'n Charlie's bar

Moeder Van der Sloot: geen halfbroer Joran
ORANJESTAD — De moeder van Joran van der Sloot, Anita, wil de geruchten uit de wereld helpen dat er een halfbroer van Joran bestaat. Dat heeft ze gisteren aan de Amigoemeegedeeld.

In de editie van gisteren werd melding van gemaakt van het feit dat dat de Nederlandse actualiteitenrubriek Netwerk en de lokale radiozender Cool FM vermoedden dat ene Lorenzo van R. degene was die moordverdachte Joran had geholpen het lichaam van Natalee Holloway met een boot weg te werken. Eerder werd Daury Rodriguez als de ‘bootman’ genoemd, maar die heeft ontkend. In de spraakmakende reportage van Peter R. de Vries zei Joran van der Sloot dat hij geholpen werd door ‘Daury’.

De familie Van der Sloot heeft het gerucht ook in de beginfase van het onderzoek ontzenuwd. Anita van der Sloot: “Dat is toen helemaal uitgezocht door justitie die heeft kunnen constateren dat er niets van klopt. Maar nu wordt het weer opgegraven door de media. Hoe moeten de broers van Joran dit nu begrijpen? Ze vroegen mij of het klopte wat er in de Amigoe stond, dat ze dus een halfbroer hebben. Dit komt nog bovenop wat er al allemaal gebeurd is.”

Ook de familie van Lorenzo van R. zou in het verleden al aan een krant hebben verteld dat er niets van het verhaal waar is. De twee families gingen slechts korte tijd met elkaar om, vlak nadat de familie Van der Sloot in 1990 op Aruba kwam wonen. “Omdat zij een garage hadden gingen we toen een paar keer naar hun toe voor de auto. Lorenzo was toen vijf of zes jaar en Joran tweeënhalf.”

tvp and can someone fix the OP?

Friends of Natalee statements

According FBI documents, see: http://scrux.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?p=6838

Nancy Laraine Watson:

quote:

Watson's last conversation with HOLLOWAY took place earlier on Sunday evening sometime between 9:00 and 10:00 pm. WATSON saw HOLLOWAY coming out of the bathroom in de Holiday Inn lobby area. WATSON talked to her and complemented her on the shirt she was wearing. She appeared to be getting prepared to leave the hotel. She did not mention to WATSON what she was doing or of she met anyone. Although WATSON knew that HOLLOWAY had been drinking that day, HOLLOWAY did not seem to be intoxicated.

Elisabeth Lewis Cain:

quote:

On Sunday 5/29/2005, HOLLOWAY had been drinking and appeared to be a little intoxicated but still had her xxxxx about her. CAIN saw HOLLOWAY during the day and night, on 5/29/2005 at the follwing times and locations:

4.30 pm - Pool at Holiday Inn
5.00 pm - Hot tub at the Holiday Inn
5.15 pm - HOLLOWAY showered in her room
9.00 p.m. Pavilion at Holiday Inn, HOLLOWAY stated that she was going to the casino in hotel.
11.00 pm - CARLOS 'N CHARLIES night club and bar
12.15 a.m. (5/30/2005) - Sitting at the bar inside of CARLOS 'N CHARLIES with VIVIAN YIELDING and CALLIE PERKINS.

Also strange, is this ever looked into?

Katharine Madison Whatley:

quote:

WHATLEY advised the security guard at the hotel were suspicious during their stau n Aruba. While WHATLEY, LEE ASHFORD, MCVEIGH, and HOLLOWAY were taking a nap one afternoon, someone tried to open the sliding glass door to the hotel room. The curtain was half drawn on the door when they saw an arm pulling on the door, she told he others ahe saw a "dark uniform go around a corner". WHATLEY advised the security guards at the hotel wore dark uniforms.

WHATLEY advised their was a weird message on the phone of their horel room. A woman voice left a message and called twice for "ROSEMARY", one of the girls on the trip. The message said ROSEMARY was scheduled for a massage of the hotel property.

Was Natalee Holloway Set Up?


One thing that investigators do when they reach an impasse in a case is they go back to the beginning and retrace the facts as they know them. In the case of missing Natalee Holloway let's do that one more time from the FACTS we know to be true.

Fact: Joran Van der Sloot was a frequent gambler in the casinos in Aruba. He was a playboy and well-connected to several of the people in those casinos. We know this because he was underage and was allowed to drink and gamble.

Fact: Joran Van der Sloot was hanging around the students from Mountain Brook all week long.

Fact: Joran Van der Sloot intially approached Natalee at a black jack table, not the other way around.

Fact: He was polite and when told she had lost a good deal of money gambling during the week, he played for her and won some of it back, earning her approval.

Fact: Natalee left him at the casino and went to Carlos and Charlie's for the final part of the evening showing little interest in him romantically.

Fact: Joran Van der Sloot showed up at Carlos and Charlie's and reconnected with Natalee there. They were seen dancing and leaving the club together.

Fact: Natalee got into a car driven by one of the Kalpoe brothers just a few feet away from her friends who were finding their way back to the hotel.

Fact: Natalee was never seen again.

These are all facts that have been documented by interviews with the friends of both Joran Van der Sloot and Natalee Holloway. Beyond these facts, we know nothing else to be true. It is conjecture. But, these facts, if taken logically, could lead to a very strong conjecture....

Was Natalee Holloway set up from the beginning to be taken off the island against her will?

Here is the conjecture part based on some reasonable assumptions of the facts.


Joran Van der Sloot likes to gamble. If you know anything about gambling, you know that most gamblers lose. If a gambler borrows a significant amount of money that he or she cannot pay back legally then they have to come up with a way to resolve it illegally. Owing someone money makes us do things we would not normally do. Owing someone who is dangerous a great deal of money would make us seriously consider doing something we would NEVER do. If Joran Van der Sloot owed a debt to someone and could not pay them back with his own money, he could have been told to pay with something or someone else. If this was the case, he would have to find a marker. Someone who fit the requirements of repayment. He would have to figure out a way to get that marker into the hands of the people he owed. Go back over the facts we know to be true. Remember, this is conjecture based on the facts. But, this scenario is one of the few that fits all the details including the amazing way that Natalee Holloway is nowhere to be found...

Joran spends time with the Mountain Brook kids and sizes up Natalee Holloway as the perfect mark. He waits until the last night and finds her playing cards. He makes friends with her by helping her out, thus winning her trust. He then calls the Kalpoe brothers and arranges for them to be his transportation for the rest of the evening. He finds her again at Carlos and Charlie's. He knows she will be there because she told him at the black jack table she would be. He dances with her and puts something in her drink shortly before she leaves the bar. We are not certain WHY she got into the car with him. She is either not in control of her faculties or is inebriated enough to be responding to him at this point. He tells her that he wants to, "show her the island" and she is either out of it or is thinking, "This guy is fun! I am having a good time. No harm in that!" She walks out with him and instead of telling her friends anything, she allows him to guide her into the car which has just pulled up. She jumps into the back seat and off they go. They wheel around the lighthouse and head to a deserted part of the island away from all the lights and people.. At that point, Joran Van der Sloot gets Natalee out of the car (or they carry her unconsciously) and takes her to the shoreline where several individuals are waiting. They force her into a boat and the debt is paid. Joran has done his part. He gets back into the car, tells the Kalpoe brothers to take him home or to the Marriott Hotel beach area. At some point, he either tells his dad or calls him from the beach. He tells his dad about Natalee "overdosing" on drugs or alcohol and that he asked some friends of his to get rid of her. He doesn't tell him about the debt. But, he is really scared that he might get into trouble. His father assures him, "No body, no CASE! and is upset that Natalee has died but it was not the fault of his son." (He may not know anymore than that since it is also documented that Joran lies to his parents constantly) The Kalpoe brothers are not going to talk because they are afraid for their own lives and five weeks later...No Natalee. Why not? She is not on the island. Who knows what the others did to her after she was dropped off. The debt was paid in full.

Conjecture is all we have. It may be all that we ever have. Joran is the only person being interrogated so all he has to do is keep quiet. There is no one else that really knows any of the other details except for him. The Kalpoe brothers may know that Natalee was put into a boat, but they could never prove it and if they talk they could die. The father doesn't want to know anything because he wants to be a judge and protect his son. The mother is clueless.

It is one of the few ways that Natalee Holloway could have disappeared so effectively. Like Caren Janssen, the Attorney General says, "There is NO evidence that a murder or even a crime has been committed." Of course not.

The actions of Joran Van der Sloot stalking Natalee in advance make me lean towards this grisly ending. This appears to have been planned earlier in the week. If he was desperate for money or feared for his own life, he would do just about anything to settle it in his favor. He may not be a murderer. He may be an accomplice to a kidnapping, instead. Either way, he is a sleaze bag who is clamming up because he doesn't want his own future compromised. That is why he will never talk. Never.

A lot of things fit with this scenario:

---no real evidence of cell phone activity, email or text messaging went on which would have indicated a panic once the murder was committed. Instead, Joran kept everything to himself. The advance plan kept any communication after the fact to a minimum

---the father is nervous about what happened to Natalee but really doesn't know much more beyond that.

---it explains why a responsible girl like Natalee did not respond initially to Joran and may have only left with him out of gratitude and a chance for some harmless fun or she was drugged.

---it explains why the Kalpoe brothers didn't break down under interrogation and why now they may leave the country out of fear. Otherwise, why leave?

---it fits Joran hanging around the group and not really engaging any of the girls all week until deciding on Natalee the last night she was there.

---it fits Joran's gambling habit.

---it explains why the body was never found and how the strategy to dispose of her was not done in a few hours but well-planned over several days.

---it explains why a calculating, intelligent girl like Natalee did not make an impulsive and irresponsible decision to get into a car with three virtual strangers while her friends were standing all around her.

---it explains the comment, "Don't worry boys, no body, no CASE!"

---it allows for the possibility that Joran Van der Sloot is not a psychopathic killer, but a coward who uses other people when it suits him. The greater the problem, the more desperate his solution.

The prevailing thinking is that he killed her alone on the beach and called his dad to help him dispose of her body. I understand that view. Either way, since the FBI was not allowed to have any control here, the absence of a lie detector, no crime scene and no physical evidence or apparent motive...Joran Van der Sloot is looking pretty safe from a legal standpoint right now.

By Pat Hurley
July 5, 2005

[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door johan555 op 08-02-2008 19:20:10 ]

She supposedly ate in restaurant next to the Holiday Inn with 3/4 other MB students. Also she is with MB students when travelling to CnC's, so I can not imagine that PVDS has something to do it with it before 3 suspects go on a ride with Natalee.

There is however a difference in the PV's regarding stopping at Joran's house before going to the beach. What proof is there actually that they indeed have been dropped off at the beach.

quote:

4:00 pm: Joran and his father Paul attend a free poker tournament at the HI's Excelsior casino. Halfway through Paul leaves to look after Joran's youngest brother, and Joran takes his place (J 6/9).

Joran plays poker with Jug Twitty's nephew, Thomas (VF).

4:30 pm: Liz sees Natalee at the HI pool (Cain 302)

5:00 pm: Liz sees Natalee at the hot tub in the HI (Cain 302)

6:46 pm: Sunset. Natalee and her roommates are photographed together on the beach. .

7:00 pm: Natalee, Lee, Madison and others go to dinner at a restaurant next to the HI (Broughton 302, Whatley 302)

7:00 or 8:30 pm: Keycard that Dave Holloway later believes Natalee was using, is used for the last time ("Aruba" p. 72, MSNBC 4/5/06)


During dinner Natalee has a couple drinks, and talks with other girls about who she will "hook up" with. Madison thinks that Natalee will hook up with Kevin Broday because she had been flirting with him Natalee had also shown an interest in Jack Noble, the roommate of Madison's boyfriend, but he already has a girlfriend (Whatley 302, DZNH)


7:51 pm: Joran on tape entering HI casino (PTL)

After dinner, Natalee Holloway, Lee Broughton, Madison Whatley, and others go to the Holiday Inn casino, where Joran van der Sloot is already present (Whatley 302).
8:15 pm: Joran and group of MB girls including Natalee are captured on security video together at the same blackjack table in the HI casino. The girl sitting next to Joran on his left is Ruth, Natalee is to Ruth's left. Natalee does not interact with Joran on the video, and at one point is talking on a cell phone (PTL)

Natalee watches her classmates gamble but does not gamble herself. Joran helps Ruth win back money she'd lost. Ruth and Madison tell Joran they are going to CnCs, Joran tells them CnCs sucks on a Sunday night. They tell Joran it is the MB students' last night in Aruba (Whatley 302, J 6/9).

Note: In the days after Natalee's disappearance, Joran allegedly makes the false statement to at least two witnesses, that the girl whose money he helped win back was Natalee (OTR 5/30/05, Sander Gottenbos 6/16, Deepak e-mail)

Natalee briefly introduces herself to Joran and then walks off (OTR 6/21/05)

8:58 pm: Natalee captured on video re-entering casino (PTL)

9:00 pm: Liz Cain sees Natalee at HI Pavilion, Natalee says she is going to the casino in the hotel (Cain 302)

9:00-10:00 pm: Nancy Watson sees Natalee coming out of the bathroom in HI lobby area. Nancy compliments Natalee on her shirt and has a conversation with her. Natalee appears to be getting ready to leave the hotel, she does not appear intoxicated (Watson 302)

After blackjack, Ruth and Natalee eat nachos, before going to the Soul Beach Music Festival on Surfside Beach (DZNH)

9:45 pm: MB girls and Joran go to hotel bar by the pool (Broughton 302)

At the sports bar Joran meets his friends Luis and Joshua (DZNH).

9:50 pm: As Joran is leaving, Natalee askes if Joran is going meet them later at CnCs, Joran says no one really goes out on Sunday nights (Broughton 302).

After MB girls suggest it again, Joran decides he will go to CnCs, hoping to meet up with Ruth, whose name he later recalls as 'Kathleen" (J 6/9, OTR)

Ruth tells Joran she will take a shower and meet him later at CnCs (J 6/9)

Joran asks his friend Andre, who is at the casino, if he will accompany him to CnCs. Andre says he cannot because he has an exam the next day (Dos Santos 6/20)

Joran walks outside, calls his father and asks for a ride home. Paul says he will pick him up at McDonalds. Joran then calls his friend Jaimie and asks if he will accompany him to CnCs, but Jaime says he cannot because he has to work the next day. On the way to McDonalds Joran calls Deepak (OTR, J 6/9)

9:50 pm: Joran tells Deepak he met girls in the casino who would be going to CnCs, and asks Deepak if he wants to accompany him. Deepak says yes, he will go home for a short while and then pick Joran up at his place (D 6/11)

10:00-10:30 pm: Natalee, Ruth, Tracy Lazarus, and John Henderson take a taxi to CnCs (Broughton 302, DZNH)

www.hollowaycase.com (timeline)

quote:

Fact: Joran Van der Sloot intially approached Natalee at a black jack table, not the other way around.

Fact: He was polite and when told she had lost a good deal of money gambling during the week, he played for her and won some of it back, earning her approval.

If i remember correctly from reading the reports/documents, he was chatting to Ruth at the blackjack table about the fact that she lost some money and joran would help her to win it back.

quote:

Op vrijdag 8 februari 2008 18:43 schreef Mistify het volgende:

[..]

If i remember correctly from reading the reports/documents, he was chatting to Ruth at the blackjack table about the fact that she lost some money and joran would help her to win it back.

, see my post above, the FBI statement of Katharine Madison Whatley, 3rd subparagraph from above:

"According to WHATLEY, Van der Sloot was helping RUTH MCVEIGH trying to win $100 at the card table."

ja maar de vriendinnen hebben later een verklaring afgelegd dat Joran nooit iet s voor wie dan ook gewonnen zou hebben op die avond