[9/11] NORAD

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Op zaterdag 23 juni 2007 10:00 schreef calvobbes het volgende:
Edit: En uit niks blijkt dat die man gefaald heeft in zijn werk.

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Op zaterdag 23 juni 2007 10:07 schreef UncleScorp het volgende:

Idd, alles is volgens plan verlopen

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“Though most people assume that the chain of command runs from the president to the vice president, the cold war bequeathed a significant constitutional readjustment. In an age when an enemy attack might allow only a few minutes for detection and reaction, control of American military power became vested in the National Command Authority, which consists of the president and the secretary of defense.
Collectively, the NCA is the ultimate source of military orders, uniquely empowered, among other things, to order the use of nuclear weapons. In time of war, therefore, Rumsfeld was effectively the president’s partner, the direct link to the fighting forces, and all orders had to go through him. Such orders were supposed to be transmitted from . . . the National Military Command Center.” Cockburn adds that the NMCC is “the operational center for any and every crisis, from nuclear war to hijacked airliners.

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2026.shtml
”

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ANDREW COCKBURN: He played numerous war games. When he couldn't become president himself, he decided to act the part, so he took part in secret high-level Pentagon war games, where they rehearsed what happens when there's a nuclear attack. And other parties, other players noticed that Rumsfeld, instead of getting on with what he was meant to be doing in this game, which was reconstructing the country, reconstituting the government, he was all for blowing up the world. I mean, he was all for instant massive retaliation to incinerate the eastern hemisphere, is what he really liked doing.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/07/1436239

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Each time, if he were not already doing so, he should have leapt into action and assumed his responsibilities in coordinating a crisis response, and helping to protect the people of America. Yet, instead, his responses were consistent: He did nothing.

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so he took part in secret high-level Pentagon war games, where they rehearsed what happens when there's a nuclear attack.

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he was all for blowing up the world.

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Op zondag 24 juni 2007 23:08 schreef calvobbes het volgende:
Dus wat wil je nu met deze post zeggen? Of heb je weer eens geen eigen mening?

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An interim report from the commission's staff revealed a communication failure between FAA headquarters and the Pentagon's National Military Command Center as the attacks unfolded. Poor communication meant the military mistakenly thought American Airlines Flight 11, which crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center, was headed to Washington, and NMCC was not notified that United Airlines Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania, was hijacked until almost 40 minutes after the FAA confirmed the hijacking, according to a new timeline of the attacks compiled by commission staff.
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0604/062104c1.htm

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"It was my assumption that morning, as it had been for my 30 years of experience with the FAA, that the NMCC was on that net and hearing everything real time," he added. "And I can tell you I've lived through dozens of hijackings in my 30-year FAA career, as a very low entry-level inspector up through to the headquarters, and they were always there."

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Op maandag 25 juni 2007 00:06 schreef gorgg het volgende:

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Het zou heel wat moeite besparen als je voor één keer eens gewoon zegt wat je wil aantonen of een standpunt durft in te nemen. Want ik kan eerlijkgezegd niet veel zinnigs verzinnen.
Je komt nu weer met heel nieuwe 'argumenten' aan en laat blijkbaar de oude (waar op gereageerd is) voor wat ze zijn, zonder enigzins duidelijk te maken waar ze überhaupt voor dienen.

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The FAA and NORAD had developed protocols for working together in the event of a hijacking. As they existed on 9/11, the protocols for the FAA to obtain military assistance from NORAD required multiple levels of notification and approval at the highest levels of government.101

The NMCC would keep the FAA hijack coordinator up to date and help the FAA centers coordinate directly with the military. NORAD would receive tracking information for the hijacked aircraft either from joint use radar or from the relevant FAA air traffic control facility. Every attempt would be made to have the hijacked aircraft squawk 7500 to help NORAD track it.104

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An interim report from the commission's staff revealed a communication failure between FAA headquarters and the Pentagon's National Military Command Center as the attacks unfolded.

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Defense officials, for their part, said they do not know why NMCC missed out on the hijack net.

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Air Force Gen. Ralph Eberhart, commander of the North American Aerospace Defense Command, told the commission that the military has evaluated scenarios since the attacks and determined that it could have intercepted and shot down all four planes if the "FAA told us as soon as they knew" the planes had been hijacked.

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"The most frustrating after-the-fact scenario for me to understand and to explain is the communication link on that morning between the FAA operations center and the NMCC," said Monte Belger, who was the acting FAA deputy administrator when the attacks occurred. "I know how it's supposed to work, but I have to tell you it's still a little frustrating for me to understand how it actually did work on that day."
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0604/062104c1.htm

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If a hijack was confirmed, procedures called for the hijack coordinator on duty to contact the Pentagon's National Military Command Center (NMCC) and to ask for a military escort aircraft to follow the flight, report anything unusual, and aid search and rescue in the event of an emergency. The NMCC would then seek approval from the Office of the Secretary of Defense to provide military assistance. If approval was given, the orders would be transmitted down NORAD's chain of command.103

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Inside her office in the Pentagon, Torie Clarke saw the second plane hitting the World Trade Center live on television. It was now obvious that the U.S. was under attack. As she later described: “[I]mmediately, the crisis management process started up.” Along with Larry Di Rita, she headed to Rumsfeld’s office. When they arrived there, Di Rita told the defense secretary: “Sir, I think your entire schedule is going to be different today.” By this time, the Pentagon’s Executive Support Center (ESC) was going into operation. Located down the hallway from Rumsfeld’s office, the ESC comprises several conference rooms that are secure against electronic eavesdropping. It is, according to Clarke, “the place where the building’s top leadership goes to coordinate military operations during national emergencies.”One would therefore have expected Rumsfeld to have gone straight there, or to the National Military Command Center (NMCC), located next door to it. Yet, as before, he continued as if this were an ordinary day. He told Clarke and Di Rita to go to the ESC and wait for him. “In the meantime, he would get his daily intelligence briefing, which was already scheduled for nine thirty.” Rumsfeld “wanted to make a few phone calls,” so he “stayed in his office.”
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2026.shtml

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As we now know, Rumsfeld’s actions hindered the emergency response to the ongoing attacks. For the 20 minutes or so that he was gone from his office, other officials were desperately trying to contact him, but were unable to do so. Aubrey Davis was receiving frantic calls over his radio saying: “Where’s the secretary? Where’s the secretary?” Yet he was unable to answer these. As he recalls: “I kept saying, ‘We’ve got him,’ but the system was overloaded, everyone on the frequency was talking, everything jumbled, so I couldn’t get through and they went on asking.”

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Op maandag 25 juni 2007 01:01 schreef Resonancer het volgende:


Je openingspost rept met 'n enkel woord over het NMCC, ik dacht, ik wijs je er nog maar 's op wat hun rol is , echt dankbaar lijk je niet trouwens.

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Op zondag 24 juni 2007 23:50 schreef Resonancer het volgende:

Wat zei het commision repport over de NMCC?

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Op maandag 25 juni 2007 01:25 schreef TeenWolf het volgende:

zowiezo is het met de 911 aanhangers zo dat alles wat in hun nadeel zou kunnen werken weggefilterd wordt, zodat er een "aannemelijk homogeen" 911-verhaaltje van kan worden gebreid...

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Op maandag 23 april 2007 22:42 schreef calvobbes het volgende:

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Ik heb meer vertrouwen in de FBI dan in jouw beweringen.

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Op maandag 25 juni 2007 08:15 schreef calvobbes het volgende:

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Geen idee. Open een topic over het NMCC als je dat zo graag wilt bespreken. Dit topic gaat over NORAD.

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Op maandag 25 juni 2007 10:24 schreef Resonancer het volgende:

Je kan echt niet lezen ?

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Op maandag 25 juni 2007 09:50 schreef Aasgier het volgende:

CIA hangt vuile was buiten. .

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En na de bekende leugens voor de oorlog naar Irak die in hun ogen gerechtvaardigt was na 9-11 met de zin: Iraq got weapons of mass destruction. Jij was toen zeker ook gelijk overtuigd van hun gelijk en vond het zeker ook noodzakelijk?

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Het is gewoon een feit dat de huidige amerikaanse (&vorige regeringen) niet is te vertrouwen

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Beetje off-topic maar waarom geloof jij wat de amerikaanse regering of de FBI zegt?

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Op maandag 25 juni 2007 20:18 schreef calvobbes het volgende:

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Jawel hoor. Maar er is vanalles dat een centrale rol speelt bij Norad. Maar wat jij aandraagt over NMCC kan beter in een apart topic. Zoals jij het nu brengt is het weer een berg desinfo. Zeker omdat het weer jouw irritante manier van copy pasten van kleine contextloze stukjes is.

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Op dinsdag 26 juni 2007 16:26 schreef gorgg het volgende:

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De OP gaat over de 2 in mijn ogen vaakst voorkomende argumenten en die gaan beiden vooral over NORAD. Het NMCC heeft daar op 9/11 maar een kleine rol gespeeld, mede omdat er vanalles mis ging bij de communicatie tussen FAA en NMCC. Daarom dat er vrij weinig over in staat.

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The NMCC would keep the FAA hijack coordinator up to date and help the FAA centers coordinate directly with the military.

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Op maandag 25 juni 2007 20:23 schreef calvobbes het volgende:

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FBI is niet gelijk aan CIA he.

En de FBI heeft ook vast wel eens wat gelogen en fout gedaan. Maar dan nog heb ik meer vertrouwen in de FBI dan in MMXMMX zijn beweringen.
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De noodzaak van de inval in Irak is volgens mij onderbouwd met leugens en aangedikt bewijs. Neemt niet weg dat er wel een goede reden was om Irak binnen te vallen.
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Het is net zo goed een feit dat de meeste complotgelovers niet te vertrouwen zijn.
Leugens verspreiden, bewijs vervalsen, uitspraken verkeerd uitleggen of uit de context rukken, weigeren de discussie fatsoenlijk aan te gaan, desinfo verspreiden. Ga zo maar door.
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Ik geloof niet alles wat ze zeggen. Ik wantrouw de complotgelovers MEER dan ik de Amerikaanse overheid wantrouw.

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Op vrijdag 10 augustus 2007 18:59 schreef gorgg het volgende:
Ik wil best wel de discussie aangaan, maar wel liefst nadat je eens duidelijk uiteenzet wat je stelling ivm het NMCC nu juist is.

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Op vrijdag 10 augustus 2007 21:24 schreef Resonancer het volgende:

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Ik zal mijn best doen,zal daarvoor wel in herhalingen moeten vallen:
Ik zal binnekort puntsgewijs op je OP en andere post ingaan, maar ik weet nu al dat ik daarbij 'n hoop van wat ik hierboven postte zal moeten herhalen.

Korte samenvatting. IMO onderschat jij de rol van het NMCC, als jij mijn bovenstaande reacties teruggleest dan lijkt me dat je wel kunt zien waarom ik dat vindt. Je zegt zelf dat het NMCC de schakel tussen de FAA en NORAD is. Je vraagt je echter niet af waarom deze schakel niet functioneerde, ik vindt dat opm. helemaal als ik post dat iemand met 30jr ervaring er blindelings vanuitging dat het NMCC meeluisterde.

Maar nogmaals ik zal mijn best doen om mijn stellingen duidelijk te onderbouwen. wordt vervolgd dus...

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the NMCC is essentially the control center for the entire military - a central clearinghouse. The NMCC now provides continuous monitoring and coordination of worldwide military operations. It directly supports commanders, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the Secretary of Defense and the President in the command and control of U.S. armed forces in peacetime, contingencies and war.
http://www.clancyfaq.com/NMCC.htm

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In May of 2001 Dick Cheney was placed directly in charge of managing the "seamless integration" of all training exercises throughout the federal government and military agencies by presidential mandate.
http://www.fromthewildern(...)_simplify_case.shtml

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Op vrijdag 31 augustus 2007 19:59 schreef gorgg het volgende:

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Waarschijnlijk hielden ze wel oefeningen met NMCC. Maar niet op die dag. Op 9/11 (+ dag ervoor) ging het om gesimuleerde oefeningen enkel binnen NEADS. Er zouden bv. ook geen echte vliegtuigen aan deelnemen. Ook dat zou gesimileerd worden.
Wat de Secret Service er bij te maken zou moeten hebben, is me trouwens een raadsel.
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* Secret Service has the legal authority to take supreme command over all agencies in the United States in time of a national emergency on U.S. soil. Even the Air Force recognizes Secret Service supremacy.
* Secret Service has the highest technological communication systems of any agency in the U.S. - as it should.
* On 9/11 Secret Service had the technology to see FAA radar screens in real time.
* Secret Service was in the decision-making loop as early as 8:15am on 9/11, no later than 8:45am.
* Everything was in place on 9/11 for the Commander in Chief to have full supreme control of the Air Force via the Secret Service communication systems and legal mandate to take supreme command.
* However, Bush was reading about goats in Booker Elementary School. Secret Service was within arms' reach, and they chose to keep him there as the 9/11 plot unfolded. Bush's Secret Service detail was in full communication with Cheney's Secret Service agents in the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) as the 9/11 plot unfolded.
* Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11 and Secret Service was the supreme command.
http://www.fromthewildern(...)case.shtml#bullmeans

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Onzin.
Je komt gewoonweg met hezelfde argument af, waarop ik al had gereageerd hier. Het zou voor de discussie imo beter zijn als je daar eens op reageert ipv je claim gewoonweg te herhalen (of beter gezegd iemand anders zijn claim).

Gisteren zijn trouwens 120 uur aan 'NORAD tapes' op het net verschenen:
http://z10.invisionfree.c(...).php?showtopic=14767

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* In May of 2001 Dick Cheney was placed directly in charge of managing the "seamless integration" of all training exercises throughout the federal government and military agencies by presidential mandate.
* The morning of 9/11 began with multiple training exercises of war games and terror drills which Cheney, as mandated by the president, was placed in charge of managing.
* War games & terror drills included live-fly exercises with military aircraft posing as hijacked aircraft over the United States, as well as simulated exercises that placed "false blips" (radar injects indicating virtual planes) on FAA radar screens. One exercise titled NORTHERN VIGILANCE pulled Air Force fighters up into Canada simulating a Russian air attack, so there were very few fighters remaining on the east coast to respond. All of this paralyzed Air Force response ensuring that fighter jocks couldn't stop 9/11.
* An unknown individual or command center referred to by Major Don Arias of NORAD as the "maestro" coordinated the war games. It is possible there was more than one maestro, but no one will name names. FTW has asked this question of everyone in relevant government and military positions, to no avail. Our investigation has found the maestro was either Dick Cheney, General Ralph "Ed" Eberhart, or both.
* Whoever was coordinating the Air Force war games was under the management and direction of Dick Cheney, who was also in charge of managing a terror drill being set up on the West Side of downtown New York on 9/11 titled Tripod 2. This exercise set up a command and control center on 9/11 that was configured exactly like the one lost that morning in WTC 7. It was the perfect command center to respond to the crisis, and it was under Dick Cheney's management before the hijackings occurred. How convenient.
* Dick Cheney was one of the main government officials deciding that such extensive war games would take place on 9/11. This was when American intelligence had collected dozens of warnings from governments and intelligence agencies indicating that terrorists were planning to hijack civilian aircraft and crash them into American targets on the ground during the week of September 9th, 2001.
http://www.fromthewildern(...)case.shtml#bullmeans

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Richard Clarke writes in Against All Enemies: "I was amazed at the speed of the decisions coming from Cheney and, through him, from Bush."

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Pursuant to reference c, the NMCC is the focal
point within Department of Defense for providing assistance. In the
event of a hijacking, the NMCC will be notified by the most expeditious
means by the FAA. The NMCC will, with the exception of immediate
responses as authorized by reference d, forward requests for DOD
assistance to the Secretary of Defense for approval. DOD assistance to
the FAA will be provided in accordance with reference d. Additional
guidance is provided in Enclosure A.


http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf

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Op vrijdag 31 augustus 2007 21:38 schreef gorgg het volgende:

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Ik heb de middelen om 40 personen vermoord te hebben. Dat betekent niet dat ik dat gedaan heb.
Er is geen national emergency verklaard op 9/11. Er was ook geen National Special Security Event.
Verder denk ik dat een hoop zaken niet kloppen in dat stukje.

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. the reason Pier 92 was selected as a command center was because on the next day, on September 12, Pier 92 was going to have a drill, it had hundreds of people here, from FEMA, from the Federal Government, from the State, from the State Emergency Management Office, and they were getting ready for a drill for biochemical attack.

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Een heel simpele vraag:
Vallen de oefeningen van NORAD hieronder?
Indien ja, kun je even aangeven in welk stukje hiervan dit duidelijk gemaakt wordt?

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Specifically it will coordinate all Federal programs dealing with weapons of mass destruction consequence management within the Departments of Defense, Health and Human Services, Justice, and Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, and other federal agencies.

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Global Guardian is a global readiness exercise involving all Stratcom forces and aims to test Stratcom’s ability to fight a nuclear war. It is one of many “practice Armageddons” that the US military routinely stages.
http://www.cooperativeres(...)n#a830globalguardian

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Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

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Nee. De vervangers van de secretary of defense zijn:

Deputy Secretary of Defense

Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence

Under Secretary of Defense for Policy

Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology, and Logistics

Secretary of the Army

Secretary of the Air Force

Secretary of the Navy

Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness and the Under Secretary of Defense

Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Technology

Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Policy,

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The Pentagon, acting under instructions from Vice President Dick Cheney’s office
http://www.amconmag.com/2005_08_01/article3.html

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As horrified Americans watched the terror attacks of September 11, 2001, unfold on their television sets, Vice President Dick Cheney directed the U.S. government's response from an emergency bunker.
http://archives.cnn.com/2(...)ng.cheney/index.html

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Op zondag 2 september 2007 13:43 schreef gorgg het volgende:

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....zucht....

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De oefeningen in NEADS die gepland waren op 9/11 hadden niets te maken met weapons of mass destrtuction.

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Global Guardian is a global readiness exercise involving all Stratcom forces and aims to test Stratcom’s ability to fight a nuclear war. It is one of many “practice Armageddons” that the US military routinely stages.
http://www.cooperativeres(...)n#a830globalguardian

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Op zondag 2 september 2007 14:23 schreef gorgg het volgende:

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Een National Special Security Event is geen oefening.
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Inderdaad. Global Guardian was niet in NEADS. En het heeft niets met hulpverlenging tengevolge van een aanslag/aanval met WMD's te maken.

Blijf je volhouden dat dat zinnetje Cheney aan het hoofd van de oefeningen bij NORAD plaatste?
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Ik heb geen zin om 10 verschillende discussies tegelijkertijd te voeren.

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NORAD’s Major Don Arias confirmed for FTW that there was certainly a “maestro” coordinating the war games on 9/11. In May of 2001, just four months before the attacks, Dick Cheney was placed in charge of implementing the “seamless coordination” of all military exercises and war games pertaining to weapons of mass destruction. He was placed in charge of managing and overseeing these operations as declared by executive order from George Bush.

why did General Ralph “Ed” Eberhart (who commanded NORAD that morning) respond only by saying, “No comment,” when I asked him who was in charge of coordinating the multiple war games running on 9/11? Eberhart had just finished telling the 9/11 Commission that the war game(s)1 had helped NORAD respond quicker that morning because of their “focus”, but then he refused to tell me who was at the center of that focus.

http://www.fromthewildern(...)_wargame.shtml#_edn1

might it have been the case that Cheney was using Ptech to surveil the function of the people who wanted to do their jobs on the day of 9/11 in FAA & NORAD, and then intervene to turn off the legitimate response?

Indira Singh: Is it possible from a software standpoint? Absolutely it's possible.
http://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/021405_faa_knew.shtml

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COG planning was eventually integrated into planning by a number of groups corresponding to different departments, dealing with different functions. One group, the Continuity of Government Interagency Group, dealt with devolution and relocation of government leaders, to prevent decapitation of the government in a crisis. Another group dealt with “command and control” problems, to ensure security for communications and computers so that decisions could be made and implemented. Another group, focused on the Department of Defense, planned for retaliation against the nation’s attackers.
http://www.gnn.tv/article(...)he_Future_of_America

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Op zondag 2 september 2007 14:23 schreef gorgg het volgende:

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Een National Special Security Event is geen oefening.

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March 11th, 2005

CMK: Mr. Chairman, begging your indulgence, was September Eleventh declared a National Security Special Event day?

RM: I have to look back; I do not know. Do you mean after the fact, or

CMK: No. Because of the activities going on that had been scheduled at the United Nations that day.

RM: I'd have to go back and check. I don't know.
http://www.fromthewildern(...)ney_transcript.shtml

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Who was responsible for managing those war games?

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Op zondag 2 september 2007 17:04 schreef gorgg het volgende:

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De VN hielden rond die tijd de United Nations General Assembly fifty-sixth session. De NSSE (enkel van kracht voor de beveiliging die direct met deze zaak te maken heben) ging in op 13 september 2001. Is het zo vreemd dat hij dat even niet 100% zeker weet?
Wat is je punt überhaupt? Zelfs als die NSSE al liep die dag (wat niet zo was dus), dan nog zou dat enkel invloed hebben ter bescherming van de onmiddelijke omgeving van de VN.

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Waarom zou hij aan een of andere man uit het publiek een antwoord geven?
Van 22 februari 2000 tot 5 november 2004 was de aanvoerder van NORAD de Amerikaanse generaal Ralph Eberhart. Op 9/11 was in NEADS de mission-crew commander majoor Kevin Nasypany en de battle commander kolonel Bob Marr.

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CMK = Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney

CMK: Let me ask you this, then: who was in charge of managing those wargames?
http://www.fromthewildern(...)ney_transcript.shtml

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Op woensdag 19 september 2007 03:59 schreef Tiesemans het volgende:
Ik weet niet meer precies waar ik het opving maar ik heb vernomen dat er máár twee F-16's ? beschikbaar waren voor het gehele US luchtruim ...
Iemand die dit ook opving ?!
En ja ik heb (behoorlijk) moeite met het eerste gedeelte van de flim (alsof een paar kernzaak overeenkomsten een dik heilig boek onschadelijk maakt laat staan Jezus Christus) maar de rest kan mijn goedkeuring zeker wegdragen omdat het beter dan loose chance 2nd edition de puntjes op de I zet kijk zelf ook eens :
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

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http://www.lawoftime.org/nl/maan/waarom.html
En bedenk dan, dat volgend jaar 24 januari niet op een maandag valt. Maandag is het begin van de werkweek en daarom de meest depressieve. Dus zal de meest depressieve dag volgend jaar 23 januari zijn? Dit brengt ons bij een ander punt: De onlogische onregelmatigheid en gebrek aan coherente orde in de Gregoriaanse kalender. Het programmeert je niet alleen voor depressiviteit, angst voor schulden en spirituele mislukking, het programmeert je ook voor black-outs als je aan tijd denkt. De dagen van de week en de maanden komen nooit overeen. Het is moeilijk om op deze manier wijzer te worden in het ordenen van je dagen. Het heeft effect op je geest en het enige dat je weet is dat januari een knokkel is en dus 31 dagen en de tussen liggende maanden zijn dus 30 dagen met uitzondering van februari. Zal dit voor altijd de hopeloze handelswijze van de dominerende beschaving van Planeet Aarde zijn, of is er een betere manier?

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Op woensdag 18 april 2007 11:33 schreef gorgg het volgende:


Graag enkel over NORAD, FAA en wargames!

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Op woensdag 19 september 2007 17:11 schreef Lambiekje het volgende:

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Het zit anders wel aan Zeitgeist verbonden wat weer verbonden is met 911.

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Op woensdag 19 september 2007 09:36 schreef Lambiekje het volgende:

"Beschavingen blaat"

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Mensen die Christen (of wat voor geloof dan ook) zijn geindroctineerd enof geestesziek.
Geloof is daarom ook een afwijking.

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Op woensdag 19 september 2007 schreef Tiesemans het volgende:
Hehehe Lambiekje ga eens op onderzoek uit want als de door jou genoemde volkeren beschavingen waren zoals jij dat beweerd, is de rest van je posting een enorme Brain fart waar een klasse 5 tornado nog een puntje aan kan blazen.
Adhd is een afwijking, geloof is een roeping ..
En naar mijn mening kun jij een gesloten dagbehandeling goed gebruiken want jij bent, geloof ik, de weg kwijt .. ]

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Op donderdag 20 september 2007 01:22 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:
Enkele post verwijderd.(Tiesemans reactie hierboven

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Op vrijdag 23 november 2007 12:00 schreef Terecht het volgende:
Misschien wat overbodig maar toch:

9/11 Debunked: Dick Cheney Not In Charge of NORAD on 9/11

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CMK: Let me ask you this, then: who was in charge of managing those wargames?

DH: General, why don't you give the best answer that you can here in a short a period of time and we'll - the gentlelady wants to get a written answer anyway, and then we can move on to other folks.

RM: The important thing to realize is that North American Aerospace Defense Command was responsible. These are command post exercises; what that means is that all the battle positions that are normally not filled are indeed filled; so it was an easy transition from an exercise into a real world situation. It actually enhanced the response; otherwise, it would take somewhere between 30 minutes and a couple of hours to fill those positions, those battle stations, with the right staff officers.
http://www.fromthewildern(...)ney_transcript.shtml

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Mineta: “During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President…the plane is 50 miles out…the plane is 30 miles out….and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president “do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said “Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??”
http://www.prisonplanet.c(...)estimonycensored.htm

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Op vrijdag 23 november 2007 14:31 schreef Resonancer het volgende:

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Ohh, en wie had dan de leiding over de Wargames, als mijn reactie's hierboven leest zou je weten, dat niemand dat weet. Cheney, zou prima de controle gehad kunnen hebben.
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NORAD was verantwoordelijk en zegt Rumsfeld, maar wie de leiding had ? Dat beantwoord hij niet !.

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IMO was de NMCC de coordinator, zekere toen bleek dat het niet om 'n oefening ging. De rol van het NMCC en wat en waarom er vanm alles mis ging ( Rumsfeld awol) blijft 'n mysterie (staatgeheim hoor ik je denken).
Maar dat staat allemaal al uitvoerig in mijn andere reactie's.

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IMO 1 van de cruciale vragen:
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Wat waren zijn orders?

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MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --

MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --

MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.

MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

MR. MINETA: And so I was not aware that that discussion had already taken place. But in listening to the conversation between the young man and the vice president, then at the time I didn't really recognize the significance of that.

And then later I heard of the fact that the airplanes had been scrambled from Langley to come up to DC, but those planes were still about 10 minutes away. And so then, at the time we heard about the airplane that went into Pennsylvania, then I thought, "Oh, my God, did we shoot it down?" And then we had to, with the vice president, go through the Pentagon to check that out.

MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk, the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.

MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down.

MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.

MR. HAMILTON: With respect to Flight 93, what type of information were you and the vice president receiving about that flight?

MR. MINETA: The only information we had at that point was when it crashed.

MR. HAMILTON: I see. You didn't know beforehand about that airplane.

MR. MINETA: I did not.

MR. HAMILTON: And so there was no specific order there to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: No, sir.

MR. HAMILTON: But there were military planes in the air in position to shoot down commercial aircraft.

MR. MINETA: That's right. The planes had been scrambled, I believe, from Otis at that point.

MR. HAMILTON: Could you help me understand a little the division of responsibility between the FAA and NORAD on that morning?

MR. MINETA: Well, FAA is in touch with NORAD. And when the first flight from Boston had gone out of communications with the air traffic controllers, the air traffic controller then notified, I believe, Otis Air Force Base about the air traffic controller not being able to raise that American Airlines flight.

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Op donderdag 13 december 2007 13:56 schreef Terecht het volgende:

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General Ralph Eberhart lig het meest voor de hand he? Cheney iig niet.

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Gebaseerd op de schattingen van één man, plus die seniele gek van een Mike Ruppert. Bovendien is geenszins aangetoond of aannemelijk gemaakt dat er sprake was van kwade opzet.

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Als je wat meer van de ondervraging van Mineta leest, dan wordt het al een stukje duidelijker:

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MR. HAMILTON: And so there was no specific order there to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: No, sir.

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Op donderdag 13 december 2007 14:28 schreef Resonancer het volgende:

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En daarboven bestaan geen rangen meer?
En nogmaals, wie coordineerde toen bleek dat het niet meer om 'n oefening ging?

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Wat, dat Rumsfeld AOL was ? Daar heb ik wel meer bronnen van. Hij deed i.i.g niet wat het meest voor de hand lag. Hij ging eerst ff bellen en daarna buiten helpen. Intereseert me weinig of er sprake was van kwade opzet.

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Allemaal al 's gelezen, ik weet daarna nog steeds niet niet wat zijn orders waren. Ik weet wel wat zijn orders niet waren.
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Stand Down. Zou ik zo gokken.

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MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk, the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.

MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down.

MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.