9/11 The deception continues

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Op maandag 27 maart 2006 23:27 schreef Hallulama het volgende:
Heeft iemand zich ooit afgevraagd dat ALS de VS het zaakje in scene heeft gezet, hoe dit dan precies in z'n werk is gegaan?

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The story...

Some criticise 9/11 conspiracy theories because they say must have involved "thousands of people", but that's missing the point. Governments work on a "need to know" basis, people may have some local knowledge of their own involvement, but only a few need to have the full picture.

Our take...

We've seen this argument used several times, and consider it misleading in the extreme. Why? Let's consider one example.

The "Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon" argument has to explain the debris that appeared, and damage like the broken street lights. Some suggest the answer is simple: the debris was planted, the street light damage faked. Now, if that happened, it's certainly most unlikely that those involved would also have in-depth knowledge of explosives in the WTC, but so what? That doesn't matter. If one person came forward to say "I was in a secret army team that planted fake debris at the Pentagon on 9/11", then don't you think that's going to be enough to create some considerable headlines?

And it's the same in many other areas. Planting explosives at the WTC, say. Being a member of Bush's secret service detail on 9/11 and saying you had advance knowledge of the attack, therefore knew he was in no danger. Being on the NIST or FEMA teams and explaining how you were leaned on to produce a conclusion that you don't believe makes sense. None of these people need know everything about 9/11, but they would all have enough information to completely change what we think about the event.

What's more, the "small conspiracy" argument also ignores what's supposed to be a huge coverup. Have you ever looked at the list of people involved in the FEMA and NIST WTC reports, for instance? What's the explanation for these academics, engineers and scientists producing something that others would have us believe is an incompetent tissue of lies? Why they've been "leaned on", of course, or they're scared of speaking out. In which case they're now also a part of the conspiracy, if only after the fact, and have to be included in the total.

What is the total? It's hard to say, not least because some people could have more than one conspiracy or coverup-related task. Still, here are some of the people who have very useful knowledge about 9/11 events (assuming you accept all the 9/11 conspiracy theories; cross off names here for the ones you don’t)

CIA agent Larry Mitchell for meeting with bin Laden in the months before 9/11, and everyone else in the CIA who knows they're not actually trying to capture him after all
GW Bush and various family members (if you're to believe the relevance of Bush family members being involved with the WTC security company Stratesec)
Condoleezza Rice (if you believe she had enough knowledge to warn Willie Brown that he might be in danger)
John Ashcroft (if you believe he had enough knowledge to decide not to fly commercial flights)
Larry Silverstein (if you believe he knew 9/11 was coming and that there were explosives in WTC7)
The 19 people who played the part of the hijackers, if you believe they were just their to play a role and were never on the planes
Enough senior people at the FBI to block progress in the Moussaoui case, ensure the Phoenix memo was ignored, and more
Ahmad Umar Sheikh for funding the hijackers, General Mahmoud Ahmad for ordering him to do so, and enough of the ISI to get the money and cover up that they were doing this for the US
Everyone who found out about the attacks in advance, and chose not to go into work rather than warn anyone else, and didn't mention this after the fact (thousands of Israelis in the towers, and so on), and everyone who warned them
Everyone responsible for the insider trading before the attacks, the CIA for supposedly monitoring these transactions but doing nothing about them, and enough of the SEC and FBI to ensure that the report was a whitewash
The members of Bush’s secret service team on 9/11 (who presumably either knew in advance that he was safe, or haven’t spoken out about their surprise about what happened subsequently)
The five "dancing Israelis" who filmed the attack "as it happened", and presumably many others in Israeli Intelligence, and enough people in the police or FBI to cover up the details of the case and get them shipped out
Everyone responsible for planting evidence in the hijackers cars, bags and so on
Everyone responsible for planting evidence in the WTC wreckage (passports etc), or removing it (WTC black boxes)
Air Traffic Control and flight schedulers at the takeoff airports (to cope with the double flights), and to make sure they didn't follow procedure in reporting the hijackings promptly
Whoever prepared the "special" planes swapped for the real flights, complete with "missile pod" for firing into the towers just before impact, and the ATC and Norad staff who didn't mention the swap
Norad and senior officers working at the day (so they could lie about the war games and their lack of response)
Fighter pilots who deliberately flew too slowly so they wouldn't reach the aircraft in time
Whoever shot down Flight 93, and the senior officers who helped cover it up
Everyone who researched the passengers, then all the actors who used that research to make fake mobile calls to their relatives, and either the phone company or the FBI for covering up the phone records
Everyone involved in killing hundreds of passengers, assuming they didn't die in the crashes and were killed later
Everyone involved in transporting their bodies to the various scenes if they did, or faking the DNA evidence if they didn't
The people who researched the WTC to find out the best place to place explosives
The people who planted the explosives through the WTC towers and WTC7
Whoever detonated the WTC explosives at various different times of the day
Enough of the New York Fire and Police Departments to shut up everyone else and make sure they didn't try to investigate why all their friends and colleagues died
Everyone who prepared the remote control plane that really flew into the Pentagon, and whoever remote-controlled it, and the Washington Air Traffic Controllers who aren't allowed to talk about the extra radar blip they saw over the Pentagon (if Flight 77 really flew over it)
The Sheraton hotel staff who reportedly saw the video of the plane as it flew past to the Pentagon, but have never said that it wasn't the "official" flight
The people who ensured the Pentagon missile defence systems were disabled to the plane could hit
The people who planted the fake Pentagon evidence, from body parts to black boxes, and those who prepared it
The people who faked additional evidence around the Pentagon, bringing down lampposts etc in an effort to make it look like a large winged plane carried out the attack
Rudolph Giuliani for having advance knowledge that the WTC was going to collapse, and for helping to ensure that the steel was disposed of quickly
Enough people at American and United Airlines to keep quiet about the absence of the hijackers names from the passenger manifests
Enough people at CNN not to question the absence of the hijackers names from the flight manifests, if you believe that's what their victims lists really are
Enough people at FEMA and NIST to ensure any reports and analyses produced were whitewashes
Enough senior officials at the many WTC insurance companies to ensure the doubts were ignored and claims were paid
Everyone involved in producing the fake bin Laden "confession" video(s)
Khalid Al-Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Bin Al-Sheeba for discussing how they planned 9/11 on audio tape even though this didn’t happen, and perhaps al Jazeera reporter Yosri Fouda for getting the interview (if we assume he knows it isn't true)
All the other Al Qaeda members who've either implicitly or explicitly accepted responsibility for 9/11, even when they know it was carried out by someone else
The staff of the 9/11 Commission for deliberately obscuring the truth
Sounds reasonable, I think, but this is only the start. If you discuss 9/11 conspiracies online anywhere, try keeping your own list, and add to it everyone someone implies that another person or group was “in on it”. Then produce the list after a month or two and see just how realistic it looks...

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Op maandag 27 maart 2006 23:28 schreef klez het volgende:

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Alleen is het verhaal iets anders. Er was een FBI agent die door sommige van de kapers te bespioneren, een vermoeden had dat er "iets" met kapingen en gebouwen ging gebeuren. Alleen wilden zijn superieuren hem niet geloven.
Iets wat niet zo vreemd was gezien het Amerikaanse "onschendbaarheidsgevoel" wat gemeengoed was voor 911.

Voor onderbouwing verwijs ik ff naar de vele topics in truth; ik heb geen zin alles overnieuw te doen.

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Op maandag 27 maart 2006 23:32 schreef klez het volgende:

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Dat is onmogelijk. Er vanuit gaande dat de meeste Amerikanen ook maar mensen zijn, hadden er veel meer mensen gewetenswroeging moeten krijgen en uit de school moeten klappen aangezien dit complot medewerking van duizenden mensen vereist.
Geeneen die gewetenswroeging krijgt? Er is nog niemand uit de school geklapt.

Ik denk dat Charlie Sheen het intelligentieniveau van de rollen die hij over het algemeen speelt niet echt overstijgt...

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Op maandag 27 maart 2006 23:37 schreef LXIV het volgende:

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Aangezien de aanslagen volgens de officiele lezing ook met een handjevol mannen heeft plaatsgevonden, zou dit ook mogelijk moeten zijn in het geval van een samenzwering.

Eigenlijk heb je maar één man nodig, die de afgezant van Bin Laden speelt, de potentiele terroristen misleidt en van geld voorziet. Dan kan alles precies zo verlopen als nu.

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Op maandag 27 maart 2006 23:37 schreef LXIV het volgende:

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Aangezien de aanslagen volgens de officiele lezing ook met een handjevol mannen heeft plaatsgevonden, zou dit ook mogelijk moeten zijn in het geval van een samenzwering.

Eigenlijk heb je maar één man nodig, die de afgezant van Bin Laden speelt, de potentiele terroristen misleidt en van geld voorziet. Dan kan alles precies zo verlopen als nu.

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Op maandag 27 maart 2006 23:27 schreef Hallulama het volgende:

Ik bedoel, ook al zit de VS er achter, dan is het nog steeds heel goed mogelijk dat er een stel Arabieren een aantal vliegtuigen kaapten.

Denk aan een poppetjesketting, waarbij het laatste poppetje niet weet dat een bepaalde opdracht van het eerste poppetje afkomstig is, er zitten immers heel wat poppetjes tussen, en wellicht lopen er meerdere kettingen van het eerste poppetje naar het laatste poppetje, zodat de kettingen van poppetjes tussen het eerste poppetje en het laatste poppetje allen slechts zeer specifieke informatie doorspelen, zonder dat de poppetjes die onderdeel van de diverse kettingen uitmaken een beeld kunnen krijgen van het grote plaatje.

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Op dinsdag 28 maart 2006 00:06 schreef NaZa het volgende:

En denk ff heel snel na: Door dit de doen, krijg je mensen op je hand voor de oorlog in irak c.q het terrorisme. Vervolgens kan je elk land aanvallen die maar enigzins terroristische aanslagen aankondigd. Oorlogen zijn goed voor de economie...

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Op maandag 27 maart 2006 23:32 schreef klez het volgende:

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Dat is onmogelijk. Er vanuit gaande dat de meeste Amerikanen ook maar mensen zijn, hadden er veel meer mensen gewetenswroeging moeten krijgen en uit de school moeten klappen aangezien dit complot medewerking van duizenden mensen vereist.
Geeneen die gewetenswroeging krijgt? Er is nog niemand uit de school geklapt.

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Former Vietnam Combat and Commericial Pilot Firm Believer 9/11 Was Inside Government Job

There was no fooling former Air Force and commercial pilot Russ Wittenberg the morning of 9/11. He knew it was an inside job from the get-go, knowing the ‘big boys’ were up to the same dirty tricks they played in the Kennedy assassination and Pearl Harbor.

The government may have fooled millions of Americans with its cockamamie official story, but the former fighter pilot who flew over 100 combat missions in Vietnam and who sat for 35 years in the cockpit for Pan Am and United, wasn’t one of them.

Now, almost four years later, Wittenberg is still shaking his head in disbelief more than ever, saying the country he loved and fought so bravely 40 years ago has fallen in the deep, dark and sinister hands of fascist leaders who are quickly turning America into a military state.

Although back in the beginning he seemed like a lone wolf in the hen house, he’s noticed, especially in the last six months, more Americans waking up to the cold reality that the U.S. government staged 9/1l, started an illegal war in Iraq and basically is criminally responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent lives here and abroad.

Even though it’s a hard pill for some to swallow, Wittenberg says Americans need to “wake up and wake up fast,” holding those in government responsible even though it may mean a total makeover of the American political system.

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Op dinsdag 28 maart 2006 00:13 schreef Sebastral het volgende:

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Dat is erg opvallend idd. Deze mevrouw is wel uit de school geklapt en ze zorgen gewoon dat er alleen gemakkelijk chanteerbare personen in hoge posities komen en gebruiken vervolgens speciale gestapo technieken om iedereen binnen boord te houden .

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Op dinsdag 28 maart 2006 01:42 schreef Johan_de_With het volgende:

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Welke speciale Gestapo-technieken zijn gebruikt om de bekentenis van vandaag af te persen?

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Op maandag 27 maart 2006 23:32 schreef klez het volgende:

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Dat is onmogelijk. Er vanuit gaande dat de meeste Amerikanen ook maar mensen zijn, hadden er veel meer mensen gewetenswroeging moeten krijgen en uit de school moeten klappen aangezien dit complot medewerking van duizenden mensen vereist.
Geeneen die gewetenswroeging krijgt? Er is nog niemand uit de school geklapt.

Ik denk dat Charlie Sheen het intelligentieniveau van de rollen die hij over het algemeen speelt niet echt overstijgt...

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Op maandag 27 maart 2006 23:16 schreef Sebastral het volgende:
Frank A. DeMartini, Manager, WTC Construction and Project Management;
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En de brandweer;
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Geen vuurtjes die staal deden doen smelten. Zal ook blijken uit andere opnames van de brandweer die om een of andere rede niet vrijgegeven zijn.

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Getuigen;

like a bomb went off [...] and another explosion


The explosion blew and knocked everybody over.

... and when we got to the lobby there was a big explosion.

It looked like the plane hit the lobby.

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Witnesses said they heard something like a bomb

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Eyewitnesses said they had heard a loud explosion.

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Experts said there was no danger that the building would collapse like the World Trade Center in New York as the main concrete supports were untouched.

The plane, which Swiss air traffic control officials said was a Rockwell Commander private aircraft, made a hole in the east side on the 25th floor.

It had been flying from the town of Locarno just over the border in Switzerland, and the pilot sent an SOS message complaining of problems with landing gear before it crashed.

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Witnesses initially said the C-130 hit the top of the building. But officials, including Police Chief Mortaza Talaei, said one wing of the transport plane hit the second floor as the fuselage crashed to ground, gouging out a huge crater and causing a fire that spread through the structure.

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Rescue teams search through debris at the scene of an Iranian military plane crash in a heavily built-up Tehran suburb on Tuesday. A huge explosion was reported as the plane, carrying 94 people, crashed into the 10-story apartment block, killing all on board.

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Hoe is het mogelijk dat er ontploffingen zijn aan de onderkant van de gebouwen?

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One of the engines and part of the landing gear hurtled across the 79th floor, through wall partitions and two fire walls, and out the south wall's windows to fall onto a twelve-story building across 33rd Street. The other engine flew into an elevator shaft and landed on an elevator car. The car began to plummet, slowed somewhat by emergency safety devices. Miraculously, when help arrived at the remains of the elevator car in the basement, the two women inside the car were still alive.

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Op dinsdag 28 maart 2006 08:48 schreef BaajGuardian het volgende:

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waarom meteen belangrijkste politici,
ik heb contacten in de politiek.

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Bin Laden wilde aanslag Witte Huis
De terreurverdachte Moussaoui heeft gezegd dat hij met een vliegtuig een aanslag moest plegen op het Witte Huis. Dat moest op 11 september 2001 de vijfde aanslag zijn.

Moussaoui staat in de VS terecht voor zijn aandeel in de aanslagen van 11 september. Hij zei dat Osama bin Laden hem persoonlijk opdracht heeft gegeven voor een zelfmoordaanslag op het Witte Huis. Moussaoui werd een maand voor de aanslagen van 11 september opgepakt.

Hij zegt dat hij van de aanslagen op het World Trade Center en het Pentagon op de hoogte was. Daarvoor kan hij de doodstraf krijgen.

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Op dinsdag 28 maart 2006 09:07 schreef BaajGuardian het volgende:
ik geloof er geen zak van eerlijk gezegd.

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Op dinsdag 28 maart 2006 09:17 schreef BaajGuardian het volgende:
nou weet je wat het is, je kunt mensen alles laten zeggen met wat druk, en geloof me die druk is er, en ik hecht geen waarde aan een leugenaar zn statement, hij staat er bekend om.

vandaar.
ik zeg niet dat niemand de man moet geloven
maar ik doe het iig niet.

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Op dinsdag 28 maart 2006 09:19 schreef natte-flamoes het volgende:

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Maar je gelooft wel mensen uit de politiek, uit first hand zoals je net aangaf. Je bent dan te selectief bezig naar mijn smaak hoor. Vooral als je op voorhand al een nieuwsbericht als niet geloofwaardig opvat.