http://www.dha.com.tr/ant(...).V5OlleCNcLd.twittertwitter:csagir2015 twitterde op zaterdag 23-07-2016 om 19:17:21 Shame! Detention warrant was issued for 19 journos in Antalya as part of witch hunt by Erdogan regime. @pressfreedom https://t.co/oaRf2admaK reageer retweet
ach die kan wel zoveel denkenquote:Op zaterdag 23 juli 2016 21:26 schreef Bilge het volgende:
Latif Erdogan was ruim 30 jaar de rechterhand van Fethullah Gülen. Samen hebben zij ervoor gezorgd dat de Gülen-beweging is uitgegroeid tot een organisatie met wereldwijd duizenden scholen en bedrijven. Erdogan (overigens geen familie van de president) werd ook gezien als Gülens gedoodverfde opvolger.
Hij is echter uit de beweging gestapt en uit sinds 2014 veel kritiek op Gülen. Hij denkt ook dat Gülen achter de mislukte staatsgreep zit. Hier lees je waarom.
Evidence piling up against Gülen and his involvement in failed coup attemptquote:Op zaterdag 23 juli 2016 21:48 schreef StaceySinger het volgende:
Latif Erdogan was ruim 30 jaar de rechterhand van Fethullah Gülen. Samen hebben zij ervoor gezorgd dat de Gülen-beweging is uitgegroeid tot een organisatie met wereldwijd duizenden scholen en bedrijven. Erdogan (overigens geen familie van de president) werd ook gezien als Gülens gedoodverfde opvolger.
dit schreef ik : (en niet wat er in die quote staat )quote:Op zaterdag 23 juli 2016 21:48 schreef StaceySinger het volgende:
Latif Erdogan was ruim 30 jaar de rechterhand van Fethullah Gülen. Samen hebben zij ervoor gezorgd dat de Gülen-beweging is uitgegroeid tot een organisatie met wereldwijd duizenden scholen en bedrijven. Erdogan (overigens geen familie van de president) werd ook gezien als Gülens gedoodverfde opvolger.
twitter:fonslambie twitterde op zaterdag 23-07-2016 om 22:13:11 Brief kabinet: zo probeert de overheid spanningen in Turkse gemeenschap aan te pakken... #Turkije https://t.co/Mrd9jCgFcF reageer retweet
Niet heel raar. Voor Europa wakker was, waren er al 3000 man ontslagen. Als Erdogan even had gewacht met zijn bizarre gedrag hadden ze dat waarschijnlijk wel gedaan.quote:
Niet zo'n goeie bron.quote:Op zaterdag 23 juli 2016 21:16 schreef StaceySinger het volgende:
Het 'zuiveren' gaat door.http://www.dha.com.tr/ant(...).V5OlleCNcLd.twittertwitter:csagir2015 twitterde op zaterdag 23-07-2016 om 19:17:21 Shame! Detention warrant was issued for 19 journos in Antalya as part of witch hunt by Erdogan regime. @pressfreedom https://t.co/oaRf2admaK reageer retweet
quote:The US Central Intelligence Agency's (CIA) former Vice Chairman Graham Fuller, a long-standing supporter of Fethüllah Gülen, has defended the leader of the Fethullah Terror Organization (FETÖ) following a failed military coup masterminded by Gülen last week.
In an article published in the Huffington Post, Fuller threatened that Turkey's first democratically elected President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan will fall soon for cracking down on the Gülen-led organization.
As clashes between Erdoğan and Gülenists sparked after 2011, Fuller suggested Erdoğan should abandon politics or at least cut all links with his own established AK Party.
The former CIA chief speaks as a spokesperson of Gülen's organization as he used some of the Gülenists' baseless claims against Erdoğan.
In his column, Fuller openly declared his support to Gülen saying, “I had spoken out in defense of Gülen".
Describes Gülen as a democratic leader, Erdoğan as an 'Islamist' leader
He compared Erdoğan and his AK Party with Gülen and his organization, which Turkish judiciary had declared one of the dangerous terrorist organizations not only in Turkey, but around the world.
Fuller said Erdoğan was an “Islamist" leader and Gülen was a “democratic", apolitical leader.
He stated that Gülen had always embraced the importance and dignity of the state supporting previous coup and coup attempts.
“He has supported the state against earlier Islamist movements that raised Islam over the state," said Fuller indication the postmodern coup in 1997 against the elected government lead by Necmetting Erbakan, one of the most democratic leaders in Turkish history.
“He [Gülen] even felt compelled to support the military takeover of the state in 1980," Fuller said that showed that Gülen had supported all military coups after increasing his power in Anatolia.
Then Gülen continue to support democratic governments, according to Fuller.
Fethullah Gülen become a cleric learning from an Imam in a small rural mosque after he separated his way from the original movement of the Risale-i Nur started by Said Nursi.
Gülen inspired his followers to infiltrate into the top positions of the influential government institutions such as judiciary, police, and education and information technology.
Though his organization did not have a transparent structure, he tried to shape Turkish politics by blackmailing, threats or plots.
His organization is accused of blackmailing many MPs, mainly from opposition MHP and CHP, by filming and publishing their bedroom videos.
After establishing a network inside Turkish state institutions, Gülen strengthened his power inside military.
Pro-Gülenist judges and prosecutors produced hundreds of thousands of false documents to open trails against their rivals. First, they targeted opposition figures to become more close to the government to gain their trust. Then they launched a comprehensive attack on Erdoğan and his AK Party whenever they were unable to control Erdoğan.
The turning point was 2011, when Turkey's democracy became stronger after a referendum allowing wide spread public rights.
Fuller suggested that Erdoğan should abandoned politics after this time for Turkey's democracy, as Gülenists accused, though he became president with 52 percent of popular vote.
He ruled out Turkey's Supreme Court's ruling on Gülen's organization that called it a terrorist organization. Fuller said that FETÖ “does not engage in terrorist activities, or support of political violence." He argued, “Erdoğan's charge that Hizmet is a terrorist organization is absurd."
Fuller use the word “Hizmet" as only pro-Gülenists use it to refer to Gülen's organization.
“Hizmet has not been a transparent organization — hence it's viewed as 'shadowy'," he admitted.
Though Gülen and his organization have been running hundreds of schools in more than 100 countries, thousands of businesses, numerous associations and federations, Fuller said that Gülen had lacked the capability to organize an army group for a coup.
Without regarding recent confessions from detainees over coup plotters on their link with Gülen and planning for coup Fuller state, “There is no telling what kind of 'confessions' will be generated.
Fuller didn't condemn the coup attempt, suggests Gülen should be future Islamic ruler
In his article, Fuller did not even condemn the non-democratic coup attempt, rather he criticized Erdoğan for “unleashed massive Stalin-style purges and arrests across the country".
He said, “Neither Erdoğan nor Gülen call for any kind of Islamic State, Sharia law or Caliphate. They both operate fairly comfortably within a primarily secular state structure established a century ago by the country's modernizing secularist founder, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk."
But later, he suggested that Gülen's group, which most of the main stream Islamic movements in Turkey and the Arab world rejected, should represent Islam's future.
“It sits squarely in mainstream modernizing Islam," he said.
Fuller indicated that the US should support Gülen against Erdoğan, saying the Turkish President “is planting the seeds for his own destruction".
The Turkish government last week officially requested the US authority to extract Gülen, with legal documents and evidences.
Despite all the incidents in Turkey orchestrated by Gülen, Fuller writes, “I still believe that Hizmet as a movement represents one of the most encouraging faces of contemporary Islam in the world."
He moreover, advised US authority to take his statement in favor of Gülen during the investigation process.
“I wanted the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation to at least be aware of my considered personal opinion as they consider his case."
En terecht. Geen sympathie voor Tayyip Adolfgeit.quote:
quote:Op zondag 24 juli 2016 00:16 schreef Atak het volgende:
Interessant:
Ex-CIA chief Fuller defends Gülen's terror group
[..]
Goh ja tsja verrassend hoe zou dat toch komen, misschien omdat Erdogan zich als een dictator heeft gedragen en bezig is zijn eigen democratie om zeep te helpen.quote:
Ja, ja ik snap dat verantwoording vervelend is. Dan denk je dat je de vrije pers en alle critici monddood gemaakt hebt, en dan moet je nog steeds met die bullshit van doen hebben, zoals waarom je een schuldige aanwijst voordat er bewijs is. Ja nouja dan moet je na afloop wat bewijs gaan verzinnen heh, en hopen dat niemand snapt dat A en dan B en niet andersom. Gelukkig is er geen vrije pers om dit duidelijk te maken. Hey laten we het over die verschrikkelijke CIA en de Joden hebben, die zitten er vast weer achter. Kijk vooral niet achterom nee nee vooruit de CIA is de werkelijke vijand. Bewijs? Dat komt later wel weer eens. Of niet. Maalt toch niemand om. Turkiye Turkiye Turkiye.quote:Op zaterdag 23 juli 2016 22:11 schreef Bilge het volgende:
Terwijl er zoveel prangende vragen zijn en Turken eensgezind zijn over de dader, vind ik het zonde dat het hier steeds over de bewijsvraag gaat.
Echt een rare etiket ja. Vroeger waren ze nog bloedbroeders.quote:Op zondag 24 juli 2016 00:20 schreef WammesWaggel het volgende:
[..]
the Fethullah Terror Organization (FETÖ)
Nou nou...
Over 1500 jaar hebben hun volgelingen nog ruzie, zo is de schifting wbt Soennieten en Sjieten ook begonnenquote:Op zondag 24 juli 2016 00:28 schreef Atak het volgende:
[..]
Echt een rare etiket ja. Vroeger waren ze nog bloedbroeders.
Er komen wel steeds meer details naar boven over waarom de staatsgreep poging zo knullig verliep.quote:Op zondag 24 juli 2016 00:25 schreef speknek het volgende:
Ja, ja ik snap dat verantwoording vervelend is. Dan denk je dat je de vrije pers en alle critici monddood gemaakt hebt, en dan moet je nog steeds met die bullshit van doen hebben, zoals waarom je een schuldige aanwijst voordat er bewijs is. Ja nouja dan moet je na afloop wat bewijs gaan verzinnen heh, en hopen dat niemand snapt dat A en dan B en niet andersom. Gelukkig is er geen vrije pers om dit duidelijk te maken. Hey laten we het over die verschrikkelijke CIA en de Joden hebben, die zitten er vast weer achter. Kijk vooral niet achterom nee nee vooruit de CIA is de werkelijke vijand. Bewijs? Dat komt later wel weer eens. Of niet. Maalt toch niemand om. Turkiye Turkiye Turkiye.
De Turkse geheime dienst zou opnames hebben waarbij de coupplegers en 'Gulenisten' nauw aan het communiceren en aan het samenwerken waren.quote:Perhaps the hasty coup attempt in Turkey last week was doomed to fail. The leaders setting up a WhatsApp group to coordinate a major takeover was a sure indication of their unpreparedness.
The attempt began the night of July 15 and ended soon after. In the current tally, as of the morning of July 19, plotters had killed 60 police, three soldiers and 145 civilians. Some 100 also died among the coup forces. More than 6,000 soldiers were detained, including about 4,000 conscripts and about 2,000 ranked personnel, 15% with the rank of major or above. Among the detainees were 118 generals — one-third of the all generals in the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK).
Of the detainees, about 2,400 soldiers were taken into custody in Ankara and 1,500 in Istanbul. As of July 19, about 60 of the detained generals had been questioned and arrested, and three were released. Mass detentions were not limited to the TSK: Some 8,000 police were suspended from their posts, and 4,000 more were detained from the Ministry of Interior, which includes the Gendarmerie Command and other government offices.
The basic reason the coup failed was its premature birth. How? First, the coup was planned for a later date but was moved up. Then the rescheduled coup, which was to have started at 3 a.m. July 16, was moved up yet again by five hours, to around 10 p.m. July 15, after the coup attempt was discovered.
Well-placed sources in Ankara who spoke to Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity said coup forces were an assortment of members of the so-called Fethullah Gulen Terror Organization (FETO) — secularists who oppose the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) government and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan; pragmatists who joined the plotters for career advancement and personal interests; soldiers who had to join under pressure or blackmail; and lower-ranking soldiers who couldn’t defy orders because of the TSK's absolute-obedience culture. The plan failed because they took action before the planned time. Why did they act so hastily?
The primary reason was because they knew the forthcoming Supreme Military Council, which decides on promotions and appointments of TSK generals and admirals, was set to convene the first week of August. Last year, in an Aug. 3 article for Al-Monitor titled "Shakeup expected for Turkish military leadership," I had written that one of the most important missions of newly appointed Chief of General Staff Gen. Hulusi Akar would be to combat the Gulenists in the TSK, and that there were several lists circulating with names of such officers. The AKP government was favoring a purge of these officers, while the military command was advocating a phased, deliberate process based on solid evidence.
FETO partisans in the TSK had gotten away relatively unscathed from the 2015 council meeting, but there were sure signs that this year would be different.
Developments prior to the Supreme Military Council meeting this year seem to indicate that the divergence of views between the government and the military had been somewhat reconciled. Last week, during the military espionage hearings in Izmir, six serving officers were detained, including an admiral and two generals. Four of the detained officers were consequently arrested. In an earlier "military espionage case," also in Izmir, 359 defendants, including serving officers, were all acquitted of charges of keeping secret documents.
With the indictments in last week's Izmir espionage case, the Turkish judiciary was gearing up to target about 1,000 Gulenists in the TSK prior to the supreme council meeting. With so many detentions just before the meeting, the government was intending to compel the TSK command to carry out mass purges.
When the coup planners learned of that intention, they moved up the date to precede the council meeting. This turned out to be a suicidal move.
Why the night of July 15? Former four-star air force Commander Gen. Akin Ozturk, now accused of leading the coup, knew that the current head of the air force, Gen. Abidin Unal, and other key air force generals would all be at a wedding, which would give the air force freedom to act against the government.
Reports said the coup leaders had informed all participating units that they would launch operations at 5 a.m., and that as of 6 a.m. there would be a nationwide curfew.
Al-Monitor’s sources said coup leaders had planned to move at 3 a.m. to take over by 5 a.m., when people would be asleep and streets would be empty. But this didn’t work. Around 4 p.m. July 15, 11 hours before the coup was to start, the national intelligence service MIT learned from radio and telephone intercepts of TSK personnel known to be Gulenists that some units were gearing up. MIT informed the chief of general staff at 5 p.m. At a meeting at the chief of general staff headquarters, officials decided to close Turkish air space to all flights as of 6 p.m. and bar military units from leaving their barracks. While that order was being written, Land Forces Commander Gen. Salih Zeki Colak was called to the general staff headquarters.
By 7 p.m., coup plotters realized that their plan was exposed and were able to take Akar hostage. When Akar refused for two hours to sign an order commanding all units to join the coup action and to go on TV to tell the nation that the army with its entire chain of command had taken over, they were further delayed. At the end, the plotters couldn’t get Akar's signature, so they sent out an order signed by a brigadier general and launched their coup around 9:30 p.m. — that is, 5½ hours before the planned time. The first indication of the rash, reckless actions by the Istanbul wing of the coup was sending out small units commanded by junior ranks to streets on the pretense of exercising or fighting terror.
These officers who were trying to coordinate their action through WhatsApp made a monumental mistake of closing the two bridges over the Bosporus River when everybody was out enjoying Friday night and traffic was heavy. That is when all of Turkey realized a coup attempt was in the offing.
Meanwhile, the commander of the first army in Istanbul, Gen. Umit Dundar, and the commander of special forces, Maj. Gen. Zekai Aksakalli — who could not be persuaded to join the coup — publicly declared the coup was not a decision of the TSK chain of command, was illegal and had nothing to do with the army. Their statements were severe blows to the plotters. At 10 p.m., the coup leaders sent 12 F-16s to make low-altitude flights over Ankara and Istanbul, trying to intimidate people to remain at home. The planes' insane bombing of symbolic places such as the parliament building and presidential compound came when the plotters realized they had lost control.
Coup plotters had no set plans to control the airwaves. Unexpectedly at 11 p.m., Prime Minister Binali Yildirim appeared on TV to inform the public of the attempt, and then at 11:30 p.m., President Recep Tayyip Erdogan called in, urging the public to take to the streets against the coup. He repeated that call at 3 a.m. at Istanbul Ataturk Airport, bringing coup units face to face with an angry public marching into sensitive areas.
By then, the coup had disintegrated and its planners were looking for ways to save themselves.
Turkey has successfully driven through a critical curve. The question is, did democracy win with the collapse of the coup? We'll have to wait a bit to find out.
Meanwhile, in a communique issued July 19, the high command said the TSK had fought bravely against bloody assassins who did not deserve to be in honored uniforms of the country. It said, “TSK, from its youngest conscript to its highest-ranking generals and admirals, are all at their posts, under orders of the state and nation.”
One can only hope that the TSK will somehow regain its prestige, which is essential to the security and well-being of the country.
Buitenstaanders maken heel slim gebruik van die scheur tussen verschillende sekten. Meeste moslims zijn gewoon te dom om dat te realiseren. Ik denk dat het ook nooit gaat veranderen. Vroeger was er ruzie tussen Katholieke en Protestantse christenen. Die ruzie is gelukkig over. Ik denk dat de ruzie in het middenoosten niet oplosbaar is. De IQ is sowieso lager en er zijn ook te veel buitenlandse invloeden, en te weinig landen die profijt hebben bij vrede. Het beste is wat Ataturk deed. Niks onderhandelen met moslims. De loop van je pistool in de mond stoppen en laten doen wat het beste is voor de samenleving of een kogel laten opvangen.quote:Op zondag 24 juli 2016 00:31 schreef WammesWaggel het volgende:
[..]
Over 1500 jaar hebben hun volgelingen nog ruzie, zo is de schifting wbt Soennieten en Sjieten ook begonnen
Amen.quote:Op zondag 24 juli 2016 00:41 schreef Atak het volgende:
[..]
Buitenstaanders maken heel slim gebruik van die scheur tussen verschillende sekten. Meeste moslims zijn gewoon te dom om dat te realiseren. Ik denk dat het ook nooit gaat veranderen. Vroeger was er ruzie tussen Katholieke en Protestantse christenen. Die ruzie is gelukkig over. Ik denk dat de ruzie in het middenoosten niet oplosbaar is. De IQ is sowieso lager en er zijn ook te veel buitenlandse invloeden, en te weinig landen die profijt hebben bij vrede. Het beste is wat Ataturk deed. Niks onderhandelen met moslims. De loop van je pistool in de mond stoppen en laten doen wat het beste is voor de samenleving of een kogel laten opvangen.
good luck with that!quote:Op zaterdag 23 juli 2016 20:42 schreef Triggershot het volgende:
[..]
Ik wil van dat topic juist een unieke, objectieve en onderbouwde topic maken aangaande Turkije.
een paar turken hebben ruzie en tata's doen alsof de hel is losgebarstenquote:Op zaterdag 23 juli 2016 22:18 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:[ afbeelding ]twitter:fonslambie twitterde op zaterdag 23-07-2016 om 22:13:11 Brief kabinet: zo probeert de overheid spanningen in Turkse gemeenschap aan te pakken... #Turkije https://t.co/Mrd9jCgFcF reageer retweet
Maar waarom kunnen wij in Europa niet zeggen: islam wordt voortaan net zo onzichtbaar als de katholieken en protestanten?quote:Op zondag 24 juli 2016 00:41 schreef Atak het volgende:
[..]
Buitenstaanders maken heel slim gebruik van die scheur tussen verschillende sekten. Meeste moslims zijn gewoon te dom om dat te realiseren. Ik denk dat het ook nooit gaat veranderen. Vroeger was er ruzie tussen Katholieke en Protestantse christenen. Die ruzie is gelukkig over. Ik denk dat de ruzie in het middenoosten niet oplosbaar is. De IQ is sowieso lager en er zijn ook te veel buitenlandse invloeden, en te weinig landen die profijt hebben bij vrede. Het beste is wat Ataturk deed. Niks onderhandelen met moslims. De loop van je pistool in de mond stoppen en laten doen wat het beste is voor de samenleving of een kogel laten opvangen.
wat moet ik me daarbij voorstellen allemaal verboden?quote:Op zondag 24 juli 2016 01:16 schreef Ryan3 het volgende:
[..]
Maar waarom kunnen wij in Europa niet zeggen: islam wordt voortaan net zo onzichtbaar als de katholieken en protestanten?
Ik doe ook een voorspelling hoor: islam moet net zo onzichtbaar worden als de katholieken en protestanten, anders gaat het niet werken in Europa.
Ga er nog wel een topic aan wijden in POL.
Nou, ik hoop dat moslims het zelf door krijgen, anders krijg je wel een backlash hoor.quote:Op zondag 24 juli 2016 01:20 schreef Slayage het volgende:
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wat moet ik me daarbij voorstellen allemaal verboden?
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