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Meer verhalen over Russische recruten die onder druk worden gezet om in de Oekraine te strijden.

quote:
Russian conscripts tell of fears of being sent to Ukraine
MOSCOW (AP) — When Alexander was due to finish his year of mandatory military service in October, his commander told him he had no choice: He had to sign a contract to extend his stay in the army and head to southern Russia for troop exercises.

The 20-year-old knew that meant he might end up fighting alongside pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine. Other soldiers he talked to had been sent there.

His commanders "didn't talk about it, but other soldiers told us about it, primarily paratroopers who had been there," Alexander said in an interview with The Associated Press, which is not using his surname for his safety.

The former private first class ended his military service earlier this month. He avoided being sent to Ukraine — although not without first being threatened with prison for desertion.

Human rights groups have received dozens of complaints in the past month alone from Russian conscripts like Alexander who say they have been strong-armed or duped into signing contracts with the military to become professional soldiers, after which they were sent to participate in drills in the southern Rostov region.

"We receive messages from all over in which (soldiers) say that they're being sent again to Rostov for military exercises," said Valentina Melnikova, head of the Committee of Soldiers' Mothers, a group with a three-decade history of working to protect soldiers' rights.

"Those who have been there (to the Rostov region) before know that in actual fact it means Ukraine."

Because only contract soldiers can legally be dispatched abroad, worries are spreading among families that inexperienced young conscripts could be sent to fight in eastern Ukraine.

While Russia has denied it is sending arms and troops to support the separatists, since the summer dozens of soldiers have been reported killed by explosions during drills in the Rostov region — deaths that rights groups actually attribute to the conflict over the border in Ukraine. Weapons appear to flow freely across the frontier, and one group of Russian paratroopers was even captured in August, 50 kilometers (30 miles) inside the war zone.

So far, the Russian government has been able to keep a tight lid on information about any soldiers in eastern Ukraine through a shroud of official denials, harassment of independent reporters who cover the deaths, and carrot-and-stick pressure on the families of those killed. But rising concerns among families with young sons could pose a risk for President Vladimir Putin.

Russia's secrecy about the soldiers' deaths has an important precedent: During the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan in the 1980s, the government released little information about those killed in the conflict. When the true numbers of casualties became known, the intervention turned unpopular.

More than 5,600 people have been killed since April in the fighting between Ukrainian troops and the rebels. It is unclear how many Russian soldiers have died in the conflict, as the Defense Ministry has rejected rights groups' requests on the number of soldiers killed on duty in 2014. But the rising casualty count among Russian soldiers specifically could prove decisive in Putin's thinking as he comes under pressure to prevent an expansion of the conflict that might put more Russians in the line of fire.

"This is a conflict that reaches pretty deep into the psyche of the Russian people. It's not a foreign conflict. ... It's something very close to home," said Dmitri Trenin, an analyst at the Carnegie Endowment in Moscow. "This is something that's at the back of a lot of people's minds, and in particular, people with sons of draft age are worried.

"Military conquest, in my view, would not be supported by the Russian people, and I think everyone knows it," he added.

In October, Alexander was preparing to return to his hometown of Inta, a city of 30,000 people that skirts the Arctic Circle, when he and a dozen other recruits were told to report immediately to their base outside of Moscow.

"They told us: You have to go on a trip," he said as he wolfed down a full tray of food at the local McDonald's. "At first there wasn't any talk about a contract, but later they said that in order to go on the trip we would have to sign a contract, because we can't go as conscripts."

Russia requires almost all young men to serve in the army for one year at age 18, although many find ways to defer or avoid it. Those who want to have careers in the army can become professional soldiers by signing contracts for two or three years.

Alexander and his best friend in the unit both have pregnant girlfriends and had no intention of extending their army service. But they were told that they had already agreed to the trip, and that they couldn't back out.

"We wanted to refuse," he said. "But they refused our refusal, and we had to go."

The commander assured them the contract was a formality and they could quit within a month, when the trip was over. But Alexander had different commanders in Rostov, who told him that he was obliged to carry out his three-year contract. He heard tales of fighting from more experienced soldiers who had already been to Ukraine. Alexander would not repeat those stories, noting that he "did not want to go to jail" for revealing state secrets.

The Russian Defense Ministry did not respond to a written request for comment sent Feb. 9 or to follow-up phone calls.

Adelya Kamelatdinova's 19-year-old son was serving as a recruit in the army in July when he sent her a text message saying he was being sent to military exercises in Rostov. Then in August, he disappeared for weeks — only to resurface in September and tell her had been stationed in the Ukrainian region of Luhansk, in a village about 80 kilometers (50 miles) from the Russian border.

When she went to the local recruitment office to complain with another mother whose son had been hospitalized with a concussion, nobody listened: "They told us that our sons were participating in exercises and there aren't any soldiers in Ukraine; that it was a fantasy we thought up."

Kamelatdinova, who asked that her son's name not be used for fear of retribution, said he had not signed a contract but that he had been forced to sign a statement in which he agreed to cross the Ukrainian border. The document did not have a specific date on it listing the span of the assignment.

Melnikova, from the Committee of Soldiers' Mothers, believes the drive to recruit more professional soldiers could be a way to make Russia's involvement in the conflict look retroactively legal, were it ever to become public. Rebel leaders have also said that any Russian soldiers in eastern Ukraine are volunteers fighting during their vacation time — a privilege enjoyed by contract soldiers alone.

"Here they got some smart-aleck lawyers who said, 'OK, we'll observe at least this (law), we won't send conscripts,'" she said. "It's absurd and nonetheless illegal."

The recruits are sometimes tempted by the promise of relative fortunes — a minimum of 20,000 rubles ($300) per month, compared with the 2,000 rubles ($30) that conscripts usually receive. But often they say they are tricked, told that the contract will only last for one or two months, or threatened.

"My son said they held them all in an auditorium, threatened that they would ruin their reputations, send them crawling through the trenches ... and told them they were traitors of their country," said the mother of one soldier who serves at a military base in Kamenka, about 100 kilometers (60 miles) northwest of St. Petersburg. She asked that neither her name nor that of her son be used for fear of reprisals.

"A lot of them gave in, whoever's nerves didn't hold out," said the woman. She added that her son had managed to turn down the contract, but that many of his fellow conscripts hadn't, and were supposed to leave for Rostov this week.

Many conscripts who then try to break the contracts are threatened by commanders with being considered absent without leave, a charge punishable by up to five years in prison.

Alexander and his friend ultimately fled Rostov on Dec. 31. They said they were threatened with desertion by their commander in Naro-Fominsk, and it was only after reaching out to NGOs for legal help that they were able to return to Naro-Fominsk to legally quit. But most conscripts are 18 or 19 and have little awareness of their rights to do so: Alexander says that the 10 other conscripts from his division sent to Rostov with him in October are still there, and that he has heard from other soldiers that 500 new recruits signed contracts in January, and were also headed there.

"The phrase 'I'll put you in military prison if you don't sign the contract' explains everything," said Alexander, when asked why he and so many other conscripts collapsed under the pressure.

Irina, the mother of a 19-year-old recruit serving in the Nizhny Novgorod region who asked that her last name not be used for fear of reprisal, said her son had recently called to say he had signed a contract and was on his way to Rostov. She didn't know whether he had been coerced or not, but said she had never heard him previously mention plans to sign a contract.

"I deceive myself and tell myself that it's just the army, that everything has to be this way, that everything is OK," she told the AP. "But they've sent them for three months to the border with Ukraine. ... Of course I'm scared."
  User die overal opduikt 2022 zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 14:59:01 #52
186611 Haags
pi_149887907
Wat staat ons allemaal nog te wachten, vraag ik mij oprecht af.. Stront aan de knikker tussen Rusland en Navo geloof ik niet zo in eerlijk gezegd.
Zonder wrijving geen glans
  zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 15:05:51 #53
321876 Cherna
Fuck the System
pi_149888092
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 14:59 schreef haags_kwartiertje het volgende:
Wat staat ons allemaal nog te wachten, vraag ik mij oprecht af.. Stront aan de knikker tussen Rusland en Navo geloof ik niet zo in eerlijk gezegd.
Daar geloof ik totaal niet in. Putler is een idioot, maar zo gek is hij ook weer niet. Al roepen de separatisten wel te willen doorstoten tot Kiev ook dat zie ik niet gebeuren. De steun van de Russen zal wel ophouden als het Novorossiya veilig is gesteld. Wel kan het zo zijn dat men wat blijft stoken om de destabilisatie in stand te houden zodat ook het Westen niets aan de Oekraïne heeft.
krik, krak, sjiemela, sjiemela, sjiemela
krik, krak, sjiemela, sjiemela
pi_149888642
Oekrainers ontduiken massaal de dienstplicht. Bijna honderdduizend dienstplichtigen komen niet opdagen. Critici worden opgepakt.
quote:
The Draft Dodgers of Ukraine

The country’s struggling army is trying to replenish its ranks. But with its forces taking a pounding in the east, Kiev is discovering that new recruits are making themselves scarce.

KIEV, Ukraine — Roman has been dodging the draft for almost a month now.

A longtime political activist and accountant in Lviv, in western Ukraine, he no longer lives where he’s registered at his parents’ house in a small village outside the city, so he wasn’t there when the local draft board tried to serve him notice on Jan. 16. His father refused to sign at first; he relented after the head of the village threatened to call the police. But Roman, 24, who declined to give his last name for fear of being tracked down, never showed up for the required medical examination.

“I am against every war, but especially this war, because it’s meaningless,” said Roman, who has been staying in an apartment in Lviv that belongs to his wife’s relatives. “I think this conflict was created artificially. The Ukrainian mass media helped this along by spreading this patriotic hysteria.”

Desperate for manpower in its standoff with pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine, which has lasted some 10 months and killed at least 5,600, the Ukrainian military early this year reinstituted a general draft, giving itself the power to conscript young men between the ages of 20 and 27. But a huge number of Ukrainians, like Roman, are reportedly avoiding service, either because they’re disturbed by the prospect of fighting their fellow countrymen in the rebel ranks, are against the war in principle, or because they are simply afraid to go. Although no exact figures on the number of those avoiding conscription are available, it could be as many as tens of thousands: The military said in September that during partial mobilizations in 13 regions in 2014, 85,792 of those summoned didn’t report to their draft offices and 9,969 were proven to be illegally avoiding service.

Now young men with views like Roman’s are on the run as the government tries to stem a rash of reported draft dodging and is cracking down on anti-war sentiments. Last week, high-profile journalist Ruslan Kotsaba was detained on charges of treason and espionage after he spoke out against mobilization. Days later, President Petro Poroshenko announced that the security service had “detained 19 active critics of mobilization” for their “anti-Ukrainian activity.” New regulations reportedly in the works could soon prevent those eligible from service for going abroad or even leaving their home regions without permission.

The reports of large-scale draft dodging have raised questions about whether Ukraine will, in the face of a cease-fire that appears increasingly shaky, be able to recruit the manpower it needs to defend itself against Russia aggression — and whether it will be able to do so without repressing freedom of speech or civil liberties.

Roman, for his part, is nervous. This month, worried that his arguments against the war would attract the attention of the authorities, Roman deleted all the posts on his Facebook page.

“I deleted everything, cleaned out the page, because I’m afraid,” he said. “I’ve been reading the statements of these parliamentarians that social network pages are full of terrorist propaganda … that what you write on networks can be held against you, that censorship should exist even on the Internet.”

The Ukrainian military, hollowed out by years of corruption, was woefully unprepared for the pro-Russian uprising that began in eastern Ukraine in April.
..
A vast web of volunteer battalions sprang up to fill the manpower gap — some of which, operating only loosely within the scope the military’s chain of command, have been accused of human rights abuses and war crimes.
..
The draft announcements have been met with alarm even in the country’s traditionally more nationalistic west. Ukrainian outlets have published reports of men fleeing the country en masse to avoid being drafted. In one village in the Ternopil region, 45 men out of the 60 who were to be called up left the country five days beforehand, and all the draft-age men in another village disappeared overnight, regional draft office commissar Andriy Masly told journalists. Of the 14,000 men who were supposed to present themselves at the regional draft office for medical examinations, 7,500 didn’t show up, he said.

Roman said that out of the 36 young men in his home village who were called up, he knows several who are avoiding service. More than 1,300 criminal investigations have been opened against citizens suspected of evading military service, according to the Defense Ministry.

Small anti-mobilization rallies have been held in places like Zaporizhia, which borders Donetsk region and is close to rebel-controlled areas.

The Ukrainian government’s response to reports of draft dodging has been to tighten the screws on civic freedoms.

The moves come just as Ukraine faces increasing scrutiny for its handling of the detained journalist, Kotsaba, who faces treason and espionage charges for recording a video statement in which he called on Ukrainians to resist Kiev’s “illegal” mobilization, and argued that the conflict in eastern Ukraine was a “civil war,” not an “anti-terrorist operation,” as Kiev officially calls it.

Human rights watchers roundly condemned Kotsaba’s detainment, and Amnesty International declared him a prisoner of conscience. But that hasn’t stopped the Ukrainian government from pursuing other measures that would clamp down on freedom of speech when it comes to the fighting: After Kotsaba’s arrest, Anton Geraschenko, an aid to interior minister Arsen Avakov, said he was working with Parliament to introduce legislation making it a crime to publicly call on people to avoid mobilization. On Feb. 7, Geraschenko warned activists planning to hold a picket against mobilization the next day that if they spoke out, each of them would be held for several hours to ascertain their identity, Amnesty International reported.

Valeria Lutkovskaya, Kiev’s official human rights czar, said in a statement on Tuesday that the “persecution of journalists and civic activists for their activities is unacceptable.” Lutkovskaya said she was “fairly confident” that Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which guarantees the freedom of expression, had been violated.
http://foreignpolicy.com/(...)kraine-russia-putin/
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149888691
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 15:05 schreef Cherna het volgende:

[..]

Daar geloof ik totaal niet in. Putler is een idioot, maar zo gek is hij ook weer niet. Al roepen de separatisten wel te willen doorstoten tot Kiev ook dat zie ik niet gebeuren. De steun van de Russen zal wel ophouden als het Novorossiya veilig is gesteld. Wel kan het zo zijn dat men wat blijft stoken om de destabilisatie in stand te houden zodat ook het Westen niets aan de Oekraïne heeft.
Putler, is dat familie van Angela Mengele?
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
  zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 15:27:04 #56
321876 Cherna
Fuck the System
pi_149888730
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 14:24 schreef Nintex het volgende:

[..]

Apart hoe de geschiedenis zich herhaalt.

In 39/40 dacht Frankrijk veilig te zijn achter de Maginot linie en vonden de Duitsers de Blitzkrieg uit als antwoord op de slopende loopgraven oorlog uit WW1.

De huidige manier van Russische oorlogsvoering is een antwoord op de zeer geautomatiseerde manier van oorlogvoeren waar wij de NAVO gewend aan is geraakt. Echter zijn kruisraketten, bommenwerpers en drones niet te gebruiken als er geen grote afstand zit tussen jou en de vijand en het vooral gaat om straatgevechten en infiltratie missies.

In Fallujah hadden de Engelsen hetzelfde probleem, een angry mob met molotov cocktails die je tanks bestookt op straat is niet te lokaliseren of uit te schakelen met een vliegtuigbom.
Niet alleen huidig. De Russische tactiek is er altijd een om de vijand in straatgevechten te lokken. Het materieel is nooit zo geavanceerd als van het Westen, maar ik sta er als WTBer van versteld hoe simpel, goedkoop en vooral eenvoudig in onderhoud en vervanging het toch effectief genoeg is om grote schade toe te brengen aan de vijand. Hun tanks kunnen in in een simpele garage weer gevechts- gereed gemaakt worden. En ja dat is een kust op zich. Over engineering is niet altijd de beste keuze. Zeker al niet voor zaken waarvan de levensduur tijdens een oorlog toch al niet lang is.

Neem de Abrams van de VS. Kosten circa 8 miljoen per stuk
Neem de T80 van de Russen. Kosten circa 2,5 miljoen per stuk.

En zelfs een T80 is instaat een Abrams uit te schakelen. De bemanning en moraal speelt ook een zeer grote rol.

Zelf ooit tanker geweest tijdens mijn dienstplicht op een Leopard 2 verbeterde versie en die acht ik nog beter dan een Abrams. Dit vanwege de dieselmotoren. Voordeel: stukken zuiniger en manschappen kunnen zich achter een tank verschuilen. Bij gasturbines word je gekookt door de uitlaatgassen. Voordeel gasturbine: zeer wendbaar en bij zeer koude temperaturen meteen starten. Het is een keuze. Zelfs de Russen hadden gasturbines geprobeerd in hun T90 modellen. Maar voor grote afstanden niet zuinig genoeg en de uitlaatgassen bood geen bescherming voor manschappen tijdens straatgevechten. Men stapte weer over op de dieselmotor.

Maar goed zowel de VS, de Russen en Israël hebben de beste legers in mijn ogen. Dit omdat ze zolang ik weet al bij oorlogen betrokken zijn en een enorme ervaring hebben. Ook de Fransen en UK zijn natuurlijk niet te onderschatten.

Maar Israël heeft mijn voorkeur zou ik bescherming moeten krijgen van een leger. Maar daar ga ik niet vanuit dat dat ooit nodig zal zijn.

[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Cherna op 21-02-2015 15:53:55 ]
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quote:
De VS en Groot-Britannië overleggen over nieuwe sancties tegen Rusland vanwege het schenden van het staakt-het-vuren in Oost-Oekraïne.

De Amerikaanse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken John Kerry houdt Moskou verantwoordelijk voor recente gewelduitbarstingen in het oosten van Oekraïne. Hij noemt het gedrag van Rusland 'landjepik'.

Zo wijst hij met name naar de situatie rond Marioepol, waar Oekraïnse soldaten bedreigd worden door een troepenopbouw van de rebellen. Als zij deze stad veroveren, hebben de rebellen een havenstad vlakbij de Krim, eerder geannexeerd door Rusland.

"Wat er gebeurt in Marioepol is onacceptabel, we denken aan extra sancties," aldus Kerry.
  zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 15:38:44 #58
321876 Cherna
Fuck the System
pi_149889149
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 15:32 schreef Breekfast het volgende:

[..]

Tja als we nu eens die Russische postbus firma's opdoeken in NL. Dat zou mogelijk ook al helpen. :)
Nee sancties halen niets uit. Zeker al niet als je de elite in Rusland niet goed aanpakt.
krik, krak, sjiemela, sjiemela, sjiemela
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pi_149889308
Afsluiten van SWIFT. Echt benieuwd wat de Russische reactie zou zijn.
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
  zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 15:52:35 #60
321876 Cherna
Fuck the System
pi_149889566
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 15:44 schreef crystal_meth het volgende:
Afsluiten van SWIFT. Echt benieuwd wat de Russische reactie zou zijn.
Dit.
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pi_149889679
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 15:52 schreef Cherna het volgende:

[..]

Dit.
Jij ook benieuwd wat het moderne Pearl Harbor zou zijn?
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149889901
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 15:55 schreef crystal_meth het volgende:

[..]

Jij ook benieuwd wat het moderne Pearl Harbor zou zijn?
Zou het knap vinden als je in de tijd van Twitter en Facebook een geheime aanval kunt uitvoeren. Tot nu toe is iedere poep en scheet van het Russische leger van hun basis vlak over de grens tot in Oekraine bijgehouden en vastgelegd. Tanks zijn getraceerd met emblemen en markeringen van Rostov tot Debaltseve.
pi_149889965
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 16:02 schreef Nintex het volgende:

[..]

Zou het knap vinden als je in de tijd van Twitter en Facebook een geheime aanval kunt uitvoeren. Tot nu toe is iedere poep en scheet van het Russische leger van hun basis vlak over de grens tot in Oekraine bijgehouden en vastgelegd. Tanks zijn getraceerd met emblemen en markeringen van Rostov tot Debaltseve.
mwa, heb weinig gezien over de bewegingen van hun onderzeeërs.
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149890031
MarQs__ twitterde op zaterdag 21-02-2015 om 15:58:45 In #Donetsk, damaged vehicles and ammo arriving, probably from #Debaltseve @21brklynhttp://t.co/G9pPpqZsm5 reageer retweet


Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149890089
MarQs__ twitterde op zaterdag 21-02-2015 om 15:56:46 #Mariupol: City quiet but battles ongoing east of it. All checkpoints are closed.via @DEmmerich reageer retweet
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149890220
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149890254
Die Novorossiya vlag is echt behoorlijk gelijk aan bepaalde Amerikaanse confederate vlaggen.

Confederate


Novorossiya
pi_149890408
Reuters:
quote:
Pro-Russia rebel build-up near port city alarms Ukraine military
[..]
A Reuters media team in Sakhanka, half-way between Mariupol and Novoazovsk, were told by rebels that one of the local roads had been closed "because of fighting" though no shooting or shelling could be heard.

Some rebels had formed a base in a complex of houses in Bezimenne further up the coast and there were dozens of well-armed fighters milling around, some of whom looked like Russian military special forces wearing Russian army patches and insignia on their uniforms.

There were no signs of a new influx of tanks and troops in the region as mentioned by Kiev on Friday. A couple of military trucks could be seen on the road from Novoazovsk to Mariupol and an armored personnel carrier was parked in a forest near Shyrokine also on the coastal road.

In Bezimenne, one rebel fighter who gave his nom de guerre as Boxer denied the Kiev reports of more Russian tanks and fighters being sent to the area.

"It's all a lie. The only people fighting here are miners, tractor drivers and farm workers," he said.

He said rebel fighters were observing the Minsk ceasefire agreement worked out by Ukraine, Russia, Germany and France in the Belarussian capital and had pulled back heavy artillery from the Mariupol area

The United States, which is considering tightening sanctions against Russia and arming Kiev, also says it has sighted Russian reinforcements in the south east. The State Department said Russian support for the rebels was undermining international diplomacy and would bring costs on Moscow.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0LP0HN20150221?irpc=932
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149890501
Grote anti-Maidan en pro-Poetin demonstratie in Moskou

quote:
Mass protest in Moscow against 'coup' in Kiev
Thousands of pro-Kremlin activists have taken to the streets of central Moscow vowing to prevent a Ukraine-style uprising in Russia.

The rally on Saturday by the Anti-Maidan movement marked one year since scores of demonstrators were gunned down in Ukraine's pro-Western uprising that came to be known as the Maidan protests.

"Ukraine's example has taught us a lot, and we won't allow a Maidan in our country!" organisers said ahead of the rally in support of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

"Putinism forever," said a hand-made banner held by an elderly woman, while a column of Cossacks brandished a placard reading "The Maidan is a disease. We will treat it".

After the Kiev uprising ousted Kremlin-backed president Viktor Yanukovych last February, Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine and has since backed a separatist rebellion in the east of the country.

Moscow police said some 35,000 turned up for Saturday's event.

The marchers, some dressed in fatigues, waved Russian flags and many sported the black and orange St George ribbon, a symbol of victory over Nazi Germany that Ukrainian separatists have adopted as their badge of honour.

"Yankee go home and take the Maidan with you," read a massive banner carried by several people.

Established early this year, the umbrella movement includes several groups representing bikers, Cossacks, athletes and Russian veterans of the Afghan and Chechen wars, some of whom have fought alongside rebels in eastern Ukraine.

Warning against coup attempts

One of the movement's leaders, Nikolai Starikov, said the march was their first major rally aimed at discouraging the pro-Western opposition from plotting a coup in Russia.

"Don't even try. Don't make any attempts to rock the boat in Russia," he said in televised remarks.

State-controlled television gave ample coverage to Saturday's event and said similar rallies had been held across the country.

The opposition plans a protest on March 1 against the Ukraine conflict as well as Russia's economic crisis, which has been exacerbated by Western sanctions over Moscow's support for the separatists.

Earlier this week a Moscow court jailed top opposition activist Alexei Navalny for two weeks in a move that will most likely prevent him from leading next weekend's rally.

The protest is set to take place in southeastern Moscow, after authorities denied permission for the activists to march through the city centre.

Putin remains Russia's most popular politician despite hardships brought on by the economic crisis and several rounds of Western sanctions.
pi_149890657
Oekraine bereid zich voor op een full-scale war:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ukraine-preparing-for-full-scale-war-says-former-envoy-to-canada-1.2964887

quote:
"However dangerous it sounds, we have to stop [Putin] somehow. For the sake of the Russian nation as well, not just for the Ukrainians and Europe."
pi_149890816
Er is nog geen sprake van een aanval op Mariupol, maar Westerse en Oekrainse media lijken zo'n aanval reeds te gebruiken om het akkoord van Minsk te begraven.
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149890882
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 16:33 schreef crystal_meth het volgende:
Er is nog geen sprake van een aanval op Mariupol, maar Westerse en Oekrainse media lijken zo'n aanval reeds te gebruiken om het akkoord van Minsk te begraven.
Whut?
  † In Memoriam † zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 16:36:46 #73
230491 Zith
pls tip
pi_149890890
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 16:33 schreef crystal_meth het volgende:
Er is nog geen sprake van een aanval op Mariupol, maar Westerse en Oekrainse media lijken zo'n aanval reeds te gebruiken om het akkoord van Minsk te begraven.
Ja, en de seperatisten deden dat door Debaltseve in te nemen na het wapenstilstand.. Maar nee, het Westen is bezig Minsk II te begraven door over een mogelijke aanval op Mariupul te praten omdat er tanks verzameld bij Rusland worden vlak over de grens. :Y
I am a Chinese college students, I have a loving father, but I can not help him, he needs to do heart bypass surgery, I can not help him, because the cost of 100,000 or so needed, please help me, lifelong You pray Thank you!
pi_149890902
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 16:33 schreef crystal_meth het volgende:
Er is nog geen sprake van een aanval op Mariupol, maar Westerse en Oekrainse media lijken zo'n aanval reeds te gebruiken om het akkoord van Minsk te begraven.
Tja altijd naar een ander wijzen terwijl je zelf ook niet helemaal netjes bent.
pi_149891064
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 16:36 schreef Zith het volgende:

[..]

Ja, en de seperatisten deden dat door Debaltseve in te nemen na het wapenstilstand.. Maar nee, het Westen is bezig Minsk II te begraven door over een mogelijke aanval op Mariupul te praten omdat er tanks verzameld bij Rusland worden vlak over de grens. :Y
Haha, ja het blijft een bijzondere manier van redeneren :P
pi_149891134
Als Reuters onder de titel "Pro-Russia rebel build-up near port city alarms Ukraine military" verklaart:

"There were no signs of a new influx of tanks and troops in the region as mentioned by Kiev on Friday. "
Tja...
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149891202
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 16:46 schreef crystal_meth het volgende:
Als Reuters onder de titel "Pro-Russia rebel build-up near port city alarms Ukraine military" verklaart:

"There were no signs of a new influx of tanks and troops in the region as mentioned by Kiev on Friday. "
Tja...
Hoe het er staat en ik het lees voel ik me blond want ik snap dr geen hol van.
pi_149891248
rConflictNews twitterde op zaterdag 21-02-2015 om 15:37:02 Kremlin commissioned/paid for these graffiti in Amsterdam, London, Paris, Berlin, Madrid - @christogrozev http://t.co/a0nX4XsOLP reageer retweet
SPOILER
Om spoilers te kunnen lezen moet je zijn ingelogd. Je moet je daarvoor eerst gratis Registreren. Ook kun je spoilers niet lezen als je een ban hebt.
pi_149891603
quote:
7s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 16:49 schreef Infection het volgende:
rConflictNews twitterde op zaterdag 21-02-2015 om 15:37:02 Kremlin commissioned/paid for these graffiti in Amsterdam, London, Paris, Berlin, Madrid - @christogrozev http://t.co/a0nX4XsOLP reageer retweet
SPOILER
Om spoilers te kunnen lezen moet je zijn ingelogd. Je moet je daarvoor eerst gratis Registreren. Ook kun je spoilers niet lezen als je een ban hebt.
Oooh dus die vage zwarte vlek op die jassen van eerder moest Vald Voorstellen.
pi_149891802
Waar in Amsterdam?
  zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 17:10:59 #81
192592 SureD1
------------------------------
pi_149891844
Volgens @loogunda een hoop beschietingen bij Shyrokyne (bij Marioepol).

@conflictukraine heeft een youtube link van Russische tanks bij Yenakijeve (allegedly) (oblast Donetsk)
  zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 17:16:01 #82
192592 SureD1
------------------------------
pi_149891974
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 16:46 schreef crystal_meth het volgende:
Als Reuters onder de titel "Pro-Russia rebel build-up near port city alarms Ukraine military" verklaart:

"There were no signs of a new influx of tanks and troops in the region as mentioned by Kiev on Friday. "
Tja...
Het helpt ook niet als die rebellen 'op naar Marioepol' op hun tanks en vrachtwagens schilderen zoals in dat filmpje vanochtend..
pi_149892281
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 17:10 schreef SureD1 het volgende:
Volgens @loogunda een hoop beschietingen bij Shyrokyne (bij Marioepol).

@conflictukraine heeft een youtube link van Russische tanks bij Yenakijeve (allegedly) (oblast Donetsk)
loogunda twitterde op zaterdag 21-02-2015 om 16:29:32 #Mariupol area:07:20 #Shyrokyne: mortar shelling08:20 #Shyrokyne: grenade laucher fire reageer retweet
loogunda twitterde op zaterdag 21-02-2015 om 16:31:13 10:00 #Shyrokyne: tank shelling, as of 12:00 'the shelling is still in progress'1 dead, 1 wounded reageer retweet
quote:
1s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 17:16 schreef SureD1 het volgende:

[..]

Het helpt ook niet als die rebellen 'op naar Marioepol' op hun tanks en vrachtwagens schilderen zoals in dat filmpje vanochtend..
Typische oorlogshumor. ;)
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149892347
Ach, we zullen zien, misschien willen ze inderdaad revanche nemen tegen Azov.
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
  † In Memoriam † zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 17:34:55 #85
230491 Zith
pls tip
pi_149892424
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 17:31 schreef crystal_meth het volgende:
Ach, we zullen zien, misschien willen ze inderdaad revanche nemen tegen Azov.
En neem je dan je woorden terug dat het Westen Minsk II aan het begraven is?
I am a Chinese college students, I have a loving father, but I can not help him, he needs to do heart bypass surgery, I can not help him, because the cost of 100,000 or so needed, please help me, lifelong You pray Thank you!
pi_149892484
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 17:34 schreef Zith het volgende:

[..]

En neem je dan je woorden terug dat het Westen Minsk II aan het begraven is?
Nee, waarom zou ik? Beide partijen kunnen fout zijn.
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149892617
quote:
Russia’s new Armata tank on Army 2015 shopping list

Russian troops are receiving beta versions of a future armored tracked platform that could usher in the 5th generation conventional land tank, heavy APC, artillery and missile launcher and possibly fully robotic assault armored vehicle.

After five years of development, the Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation has finalized manufacture of the first batch of Armata tanks and heavy personnel carriers. They have been included in Russia’s 2015 defense order, TASS said.

Reportedly, 20 units have already been manufactured and issued to troops for hands-on training.

The exact characteristics and appearance of the platform remain classified, though this might soon change as the new vehicles are on the verge of taking part in the Victory Day Parade on Red Square, May 9 this year.

A better chance to see these innovative battle vehicles of the future might be given to experts and public alike during Russia Arms Expo 2015 (September 9-12, Nizhniy Tagil).


The new Armata armored tracked platform has reportedly combined and assimilated all the last decade’s major developments and innovations in battle vehicle design and construction.

The platform’s chief tank (T-14) sports an unmanned remotely controlled turret armed with a brand new 125 mm 2A82-1M smoothbore cannon. Its muzzle energy is greater than one of the world’s previously considered best cannons: the German Leopard-2 Rheinmetall 120 mm gun.

The 125 mm gun has 15-20 percent improved accuracy and its rolling fire angular dispersion has improved 1.7 times.

According to Russian media, the Armata tank might also come with a specially developed 152 mm gun, the most powerful ever cannon to be mounted on a main battle tank.

The tank’s turret will also carry a 30 mm sub-caliber ranging gun to deal with various targets, including low-flying aerial targets, such as attack planes and helicopters.

A 12.5 mm turret-mounted heavy machine gun is reportedly capable of taking out incoming projectiles, such as anti-tank missiles. It’s capable of neutralizing shells approaching at speeds of up to 3,000 meters per second.

The tank’s crew is securely enclosed in a multi-layer armored capsule separated from the ammunition container. The vehicle is fully computerized and only needs two servicemen to operate it. Each can also deploy the tank’s weapon systems.

The tank’s targeting is reportedly done with an active-phased array antenna and a large variety of other sensors.

The Armata platform allegedly has a fully mechanized electric transmission, powered by a 1,200 HP diesel engine. For greater efficiency, maintenance and repair schedules have been extended.

Within its blueprint, the Armata armored vehicle has the potential to evolve into a fully robotic battle vehicle.

According to preliminary estimates, 2,300 units are required for the Russian army.


bron
  zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 18:48:42 #88
192592 SureD1
------------------------------
pi_149894319
De wat uitgesprokener pro-Oekraïne accounts @Marqs bijvoorbeeld maken zich pissig over het feit dat het Donbass bataljon bij Shyrokyne artillerie ondersteuning wil van het leger maar die niet krijgt omdat er een wapenstilstand is.

Weer bewijs van een split tussen de regeringstroepen en de volunteer battalions?
pi_149894642
Tsja hoe wil je Poetin tegenhouden ? als iemand hem doodschiet wordt ie toch weer zo vervangen
"You can call me Susan if it makes you happy"
  zaterdag 21 februari 2015 @ 19:13:12 #90
361691 DeJori
Zorgt hier voor de veiligheid
pi_149895031
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 19:00 schreef TLC het volgende:
Tsja hoe wil je Poetin tegenhouden ? als iemand hem doodschiet wordt ie toch weer zo vervangen
*opnieuw in elkaar gesleuteld.
Ik ben DeJori en ik wil aangesproken worden als DeJori. Ik heb handboeien en ik heb pepperspray. Ik los dat hier op op mijn manier. Aight?
pi_149895080
In welke vorm is de NAVO verplicht een ander NAVO-land te helpen? Hypothetische situatie: de Russische bevolking in de Baltische staten komen in opstand. Is de NAVO-verplicht te helpen bij een burgeropstand? Want als dat niet goed is vastgelegd krijg je daar ongetwijfeld ook discussies over: moeten we ze helpen of niet.
pi_149895082
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 19:13 schreef DeJori het volgende:

[..]

*opnieuw in elkaar gesleuteld.
Ik dacht dat de cyborgs aan Kiev's zijde stonden?
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149895232
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 19:14 schreef Romanus het volgende:
In welke vorm is de NAVO verplicht een ander NAVO-land te helpen? Hypothetische situatie: de Russische bevolking in de Baltische staten komen in opstand. Is de NAVO-verplicht te helpen bij een burgeropstand? Want als dat niet goed is vastgelegd krijg je daar ongetwijfeld ook discussies over: moeten we ze helpen of niet.
Aangezien men meteen Rusland de schuld zal geven in zo'n geval is er niet echt een probleem.
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149895248
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 19:14 schreef Romanus het volgende:
In welke vorm is de NAVO verplicht een ander NAVO-land te helpen? Hypothetische situatie: de Russische bevolking in de Baltische staten komen in opstand. Is de NAVO-verplicht te helpen bij een burgeropstand? Want als dat niet goed is vastgelegd krijg je daar ongetwijfeld ook discussies over: moeten we ze helpen of niet.
In principe is de NAVO daar volgens mij niet voor bedoeld. Noord-Ierland en Baskenland zijn toch ook nooit NAVO-kwesties geweest?

Maar als Russische militairen met tanks "op vakantie" de grens oversteken, dan wordt het wel een Navo-kwestie, lijkt me. ;)
pi_149895486
'Stop the war, probe Maidan shootings' – Ukrainian ex-leader Yanukovich year after coup
quote:
The current Ukrainian authorities have no other way to resolve the crisis in the eastern regions but to negotiate with the rebels, former President Viktor Yanukovich says one year after the climax of the Maidan protests in Kiev saw him leave the country.

"Stop the war, stop insulting the inhabitants of the southeast, remove these labels from people. Give guarantees that self-administration would be sufficient for these regions to protect their rights. And this process should by all means involve European countries and Russia," he said in an interview with the Russia-1 TV channel.

According to Yanukovich, there's a lot of "accumulated resentment, mistrust and hatred today among those people whose families have suffered."

READ MORE: Europe, not Russia pressed Kiev over EU association – ex-Ukrainian PM

"Many people have died, a lot of people have been humiliated. It takes time to reach a level of trust that will allow us to live together. Therefore, a transition is needed. And we need to go step by step along the way of building trust," Yanukovich wrapped up.

Yanukovich believes Western countries, which a year ago acted as guarantors of the agreement between the current government and opposition, must take responsibility for what happened in Ukraine afterwards.

"Obligations have been taken by two sides - the power and the opposition, while the guarantors were the three foreign ministers of the three major European countries. I agreed to early presidential elections, constitutional reform and to hold elections to the parliament and presidential elections on a new basis. What else was needed? [They] had to carry out everything and then wait for the decision of the Ukrainian people," he also said, in a TV interview on Saturday.

Yanukovich, who has been living in Russia since last February, said he made all these concessions to avoid bloodshed. He is on Interpol’s wanted list, accused by the new Ukrainian government of embezzlement and financial wrongdoing.

"The very arrival of the three ministers in Kiev was a milestone. Representatives of the three largest European countries had arrived [the foreign ministers of Poland, Germany and France] and, together with the president, the current government and opposition, they prepared an agreement. What is this? Involvement? Complicity? In what capacity did they come? After all, they have initiated the process, so they should bear the responsibility," Viktor Yanukovich said.

Subsequent events, according to the ex-president of Ukraine, occurred due to the fact that the new authorities "were afraid that people would react very negatively to their actions, and they wouldn't be elected."

"So the war was unleashed to exclude people from this political process. And partly they've succeeded in doing so. After all, southeastern Ukraine did not actually take part in the elections. And if it did participate, then only a small part of the population," Yanukovich added.

Last February, central Kiev saw several days of bloody clashes between rioters and the police at the ‘EuroMaidan’ rallies, where approximately 100 people were killed on a single day – February 20, 2014.

READ MORE: Batons vs Molotovs: Former Berkut riot police recall Ukrainian coup

Yanukovich remarked on Saturday that the Ukrainian authorities condemned those allegedly responsible for the deaths of people on Independence Square in February last year "without charge or trial."

"They announced [guilty] law enforcement and the president. In my opinion, this is a classic scenario of the color revolution," he said, adding that at the time when he was in power, law enforcement agencies "practically had proof that these murders had not occurred in those places and that corpses had been planted."

Events on Maidan compelled Yanukovich to flee the country while the opposition formed a new government.

In April, the new Kiev authorities started an anti-terrorist operation against breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine, who didn’t recognize the coup-imposed authorities in Ukraine. According to the latest UN estimates, the resulting civil war has claimed the lives of at least 5,600 people.
De enige legitieme leider van Oekraïne.
pi_149895684
Volgende stap van het Russische schaakspel, Yanukovich naar voren schuiven als integere leider die het land er weer bovenop kan helpen en hem opnieuw installeren in Kiev, zodat Oekraine een straatarme Russische sattelietsstaat blijft die leeg gejat kan blijven worden door Putin's kliek.
pi_149895737
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 19:31 schreef Nintex het volgende:
Volgende stap van het Russische schaakspel, Yanukovich naar voren schuiven als integere leider die het land er weer bovenop kan helpen en hem opnieuw installeren in Kiev, zodat Oekraine een straatarme Russische sattelietsstaat blijft die leeg gejat kan blijven worden door Putin's kliek.
Tuurlijk, het Kremlin denkt dat ze Yanukovich terug aan de macht kunnen helpen. :')
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
pi_149895786
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 19:31 schreef Nintex het volgende:
Volgende stap van het Russische schaakspel, Yanukovich naar voren schuiven als integere leider die het land er weer bovenop kan helpen en hem opnieuw installeren in Kiev, zodat Oekraine een straatarme Russische sattelietsstaat blijft die leeg gejat kan blijven worden door Putin's kliek.
Dit.

Vergelijk Polen en de Oekraine. Duidelijk dat de EU een betere partner is dan Rusland.

pi_149895915
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 19:34 schreef Pharmacist het volgende:

[..]

Dit.

Vergelijk Polen en de Oekraine. Duidelijk dat de EU een betere partner is dan Rusland.

[ afbeelding ]
Vergelijk Oekraïne en Wit-Rusland eens, Wit-Rusland doet het veel beter dan Oekraïne terwijl Wit-Rusland altijd pro-Rusland was en Oekraïne neutraal.
pi_149895920
quote:
0s.gif Op zaterdag 21 februari 2015 19:34 schreef Pharmacist het volgende:

[..]

Dit.

Vergelijk Polen en de Oekraine. Duidelijk dat de EU een betere partner is dan Rusland.

[ afbeelding ]
Vergelijk Oekraine onder Yanukovich met Oekraine nu... :O
Hell, vraag de Grieken hoe leuk het is in de EU.
Ich glaube, dass es manchmal nicht genügend Steine gibt und
Ich bin mir sicher, dass auch schöne Augen weinen
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