Crisis Oekraïne - Rusland #159

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Op zaterdag 29 november 2014 00:18 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Je kwam er met gestrekt been in:
- verweet iedereen onkritisch te zijn,
- niets van de situatie te begrijpen,
- stelde provocerende vragen, die impliciet zo'n sterk vereenvoudigd idee van waarheidsvinding veronderstellen, dat ze niet zinnig te beantwoorden zijn,
- en onderstreepte dat alles met denigrerende ad hominems

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Op zaterdag 29 november 2014 00:33 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Tevens ben ik van mening dat het conflict gepaard gaat met een hinderlijke propaganda. Een van de thema is dit topic is of deze tactiek verenigbaar is met het westerse samenlevingsmodel.

Ook in dit topic is er weerstand tegen posters die deze propaganda uitdragen. Daar hoort ook een discussie stijl bij. Deze is niet gericht op inzicht maar op het winnen van de strijd.

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Op zaterdag 29 november 2014 00:36 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Dan kunnen we op die grond verder.

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Op zaterdag 29 november 2014 00:41 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Welkom

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Op vrijdag 28 november 2014 10:42 schreef 99.999 het volgende:

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Lijkt wel erg BNW'erig.
Dat de Russische centrale bank veel goud koopt is vooral omdat ze de binnenlandse productie opkopen. Ze hebben weinig keuze vanwege de financiële beperkingen wegens de boycot.

Zie eigenlijk nergens serieuze aanwijzingen dat de Russen hun olie en gas alleen nog maar verkopen in ruil voor goud.

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Ukraine Militias Warn of Anti-Kiev Coup

The men behind Ukraine’s nationalist militias are looking to replace the fumbling government in Kiev one way or another.

KIEV, Ukraine—The burly man with the close-cropped silver hair and his two companions ask not to be identified too closely when they talk to me in some dowdy offices near an ancient monastery overlooking the Dnieper River. They want to be described as “patriotic businessmen,” they say, and one of them, whom we’ll call Alexander, is a very, very rich patriotic businessman.

They have been funding Ukrainian self-defense militias formed in response to what they see as the ineffectiveness of the Ukraine Armed Forces in the face of pro-Moscow separatists and Russian troops in the country’s southeast. And they suggest something worse than incompetence is at work there. The word “betrayal” often plays on their lips. They predict the government of President Petro Poroshenko may not last another three months. “That’s optimistic,” says Alexander.

Alexander and his friends point to continued military hardware exports—sometimes transferred via Moscow-ally Belarus—sent from some of Ukraine’s 134 state-owned defense enterprises to Russia, which has long been the Ukraine arms industry’s biggest customer.

The trade flouts a March 2014 prohibition on all exports of weaponry and military equipment to Moscow. Poroshenko reinforced that ban in June with a presidential decree, but Alexander and other businessmen contacted by The Daily Beast say enterprises are still disobeying the order. Some are doing so because there’s money to be made and recession is hitting this key sector; others because executives and workers in the defense plants, mostly located in the east and the south of Ukraine, are sympathetic to Russia.

Earlier this month, nationalist businessmen alerted Ukraine’s Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk to the imminent shipment of key components for military radar systems mounted on Russian Shilka self-propelled anti-aircraft guns. Yatsenyuk blocked the shipment from Kiev’s Arsenal arms factory.

The state-owned Motor Sich engine factory in Zaporizhia, a southeastern city on the Dnieper River 140 miles from the separatist stronghold of Donetsk, has been the most flagrant exporter. Company executives make no bones about Sich’s exports to Russia of military helicopter engines. Victor Chuyko, the president of the Association of Aviation Engine-Builders, claims the sales are legal on the grounds that “Poroshenko’s decree bans only deliveries directly to the Russian defense ministry.”

Last week, Sich executives signed a preliminary agreement that would see the company manufacturing in Belarus gas turbine engines for Russia’s Cruise missiles. “The economic interests of some are at odds with the country’s interest,” says Alexander, smiling cynically.

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Ukraine crisis: West's sanctions target Putin, not policy, Russia insists

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov says the West's sanctions are aimed at promoting regime change, a view that analysts warn will make compromise over Ukraine even more difficult.

Moscow — Russia sees no connection between sanctions imposed against it by the United States and the European Union and the deepening crisis in Ukraine. Instead it views them merely as a "destabilizing" effort to inflict damage, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told journalists Friday.

"Specific facts have been stated that signal that the unilateral sanctions introduced against us are illegitimate and undermine stability of the global economy and have nothing in common with the goal of de-escalating the Ukrainian crisis," the official Tass agency quoted Mr. Lavrov as saying.

Some analysts warn that this view of the sanctions, which is becoming increasingly ingrained, makes Russia less likely to compromise with the West over Ukraine.

In a speech last week, Lavrov argued even more explicitly that sanctions were part of a US-led campaign to oust Russian President Vladimir Putin rather than an effort to find peace in Ukraine.

"Western leaders publicly state that the sanctions must hurt [Russia's] economy and stir up public protests," he said. "The West doesn’t want to change Russia’s policies. They want a regime change. Practically nobody denies that."

Lavrov appears to be confirming a view many Kremlin-connected experts have been expressing for some time: that Washington has had it in for Russia ever since Mr. Putin returned to power in 2012 and began strongly asserting Russia's national interests, including by opposing US policies around the world.

Russia-US relations have sharply deteriorated ever since. Pro-Putin analysts argue that even if the Ukraine crisis had not erupted, something else would have triggered the sanctions war against Russia.

"Many people [in official circles] believe that the sanctions package was prepared well in advance, and Ukraine was the pretext for launching it," says Fyodor Lukyanov, editor of Russia in Global Affairs, a leading Moscow foreign policy journal.

"There is evidence to support the view that the US has decided that Russia under Putin is a revisionist power, bent on challenging US positions, and that it should be firmly dealt with now. People in Moscow have come to believe that US sanctions will not be lifted for a long time, regardless of whether peace breaks out in Ukraine tomorrow, and we should dig in for the long haul. It's about containment," he says, referring to the cold war policy that contributed to the eventual collapse of the USSR.
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Op zaterdag 29 november 2014 02:00 schreef Smack10 het volgende:

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Interessant is wel dat Nederland en andere Europese landen deze week hebben besloten om de gestalde goudvoorraden in het buitenland af te bouwen en deze in eigen land willen hebben.

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Op zaterdag 29 november 2014 03:43 schreef TweeGrolsch het volgende:

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Dat is deze week helemaal niet besloten.

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In January 2013 Germany's central bank, the Bundesbank, said it will ship back home all 374 tonnes it had stored with the Banque de France in Paris, as well as 300 tonnes held in Manhattan by the US Federal Reserve, by 2020.

Fast forward 18 months and Buba, as the Federal Bank of Germany is often called, only managed to bring home a paltry 37 tonnes of gold, a mere 5 tonnes of that came from the US, the rest from Paris.

Then in June the ruling Christian Democratic Party headed by Angela Merkel, seemed to give up on the endeavour altogether, removing a possible irritant in US-German relations.

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Op zaterdag 29 november 2014 08:34 schreef 99.999 het volgende:
Het bestand wordt toch al vanaf het begin voornamelijk door de rebellen geschonden?