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pi_145049125
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:06 schreef UpsideDown het volgende:

[..]

Ik denk niet dat de YPG en ISIS het toestaan dat Turkse militairen hun gebied binnen marcheren.

Assad trouwens ook niet.
Klopt, dat noemen we een conflict. Daarom zijn er dwangmiddelen zoals een krijgsmacht.

Wat IS wel of niet toestaat hoeft niemand te interesseren.
The problem is not the occupation, but how people deal with it.
pi_145049139
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:06 schreef UpsideDown het volgende:

[..]

Ik denk niet dat de YPG en ISIS het toestaan dat Turkse militairen hun gebied binnen marcheren.

Assad trouwens ook niet.
Alsof Assad enige macht heeft in het Noorden van zijn land.

Met YPG kan vast onderhandeld worden. Is ook met de Koerden in Irak gelukt. :P

Nja, ik weet het ook niet allemaal.
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 12:07:58 #28
343860 UpsideDown
Baas Boven Baas
pi_145049149
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:07 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

Klopt, dat noemen we een conflict. Daarom zijn er dwangmiddelen zoals een krijgsmacht.

Wat IS wel of niet toestaat hoeft niemand te interesseren.
Dan zullen de Turken een bloedige oorlog ingezogen worden.
Say what?
pi_145049193
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:07 schreef UpsideDown het volgende:

[..]

Dat zullen de Turken een bloedige oorlog ingezogen worden.
Daarom gaan ze het niet alleen doen lijkt mij. Internationaal verband is toch hun voorwaarde? :P
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 12:09:57 #30
343860 UpsideDown
Baas Boven Baas
pi_145049215
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:07 schreef De_Guidance het volgende:

[..]

Alsof Assad enige macht heeft in het Noorden van zijn land.

Met YPG kan vast onderhandeld worden. Is ook met de Koerden in Irak gelukt. :P

Nja, ik weet het ook niet allemaal.
Juridisch valt Turkije dan Syri binnen zonder VN-mandaat en Rusland en Iran zullen Syri steunen.
Say what?
pi_145049235
quote:
Why Obama underestimated ISIL in Syria and Iraq

President Obama admitted on CBS’s “60 Minutes” on Sunday that the US had underestimated the military potential of ISIL.

Obama understands that a generational struggle is going on in the Middle East, but some of his comments in the interview seemed to me to show insufficient appreciation for the true nature of the generational crisis — something that I have just written a book about:

At one point in the interview, Obama lays out what he thinks the underlying problems are:

“They have now created an environment in which young men are more concerned whether they’re Shiite or Sunni, rather than whether they are getting a good education or whether they are able to, you know, have a good job. Many of them are poor. Many of them are illiterate and are therefore more subject to these kinds of ideological appeals. And, you know, the beginning of the solution for the entire Middle East is going to be a transformation in how these countries teach their youth. What our military operations can do is to just check and roll back these networks as they appear and make sure that the time and space is provided for a new way of doing things to begin to take root.”

This point of view is just old-fashioned modernization theory, and I think it puts the cart before the horse. It depicts Iraqi and Syrian youth as putting sectarian considerations before ones of rational economic well-being. I don’t believe this is an accurate characterization of what has happened. That Obama sees these Arab young men as merely acting irrationally, and that he doesn’t seem to understand the profound crisis of joblessness behind the turmoil, helps explain why ISIL surprised him and his intelligence officials.

The fact is that in Syria, the 2011 revolution was initially precisely about “jobs.” Syrian young men were forced off their farms in droves in the zeroes because of a long-term drought that was likely caused by global warming, i.e. by people burning gas and oil for decades before, throughout the world. The now unemployed young farmers went to cities like Homs, Hama and Deraa, where they settled in slums circling the city. They hoped to get construction work and day labor, but the 2008 global financial crash hurt that prospect. The first demonstrations against the regime were by day laborers in the slums around these cities.

In the old days of the 1970s, the ruling Baath Party in Syria had been very good at irrigation works, and Sunni and Christian farmers in Deraa and its hinterland were the strongest Baathists (Arab nationalists and socialists). Deraa even produced a high-ranking general in the regime. But by the zeroes, international pressure to privatize and introduce market mechanisms had turned the attentions of the high Baath functionaries toward making themselves billionaires, not expending resources for poor rural Sunni farmers. Family members of the ruling al-Assads gained control of the credit card business, telcos, and many other lucrative new businesses, enriching themselves beyond their wildest dreams. It so happened that many of them derived from the Alawite Shiite minority, but it wasn’t their religious ethnicity that angered the protesters.

So these Syrian youth were demanding jobs, jobs that had been taken from them by carbon-spewing Americans and Chinese, and by a corrupt Neoliberalism. Only when the regime dealt with the 2011 protests by drawing up tanks and firing on peaceful protesters, and by stationing snipers on rooftops, did the protesters gradually take up arms. As the conflict turned into civil war, paramilitary and political forces often began appealing to sectarian identity as a way of mobilizing people, getting them to fight or to be afraid of the Other. Over time people began outbidding one another in sectarian brutality as guerrilla groups competed for popularity among urban populations being barrel-bombed by the regime (increasingly coded as an Alawite “Shiite” regime).

This growing religious extremism was fueled by the Wahhabi states of Qatar and Saudi Arabia — US allies going back to the Cold War when all were afraid of workers and the Left– which sent in money to the most puritanical of the guerrilla groups, while the secular and leftist moderates languished without much monetary support. Saudi Arabia’s ideal model is fanatical puritanical religion that is unthinkingly loyal to the Saudi monarchy and the Arab Establishment. Riyadh keeps being surprised when the extremists it promotes tend to turn populist and revolutionary instead of quietist. It is the same surprise the US keeps getting when it spreads “market forces” that create ever greater extremes of wealth and then the ungrateful immiserated workers and unemployed rise up against the Neoliberal Establishment. Ideologies that are tame at the Center are often radical when adopted on the peripheries.

The origins of the conflict weren’t in sectarianism as Obama alleged. Those identity politics came later. The origins of the conflict in many ways were just sketched by Naomi Klein in her book, This Changes Everything, about how Neoliberal forms of capitalism aren’t good at dealing with climate change.

Nor are Syrian youth particularly poorly educated, certainly compared to their parents’ and grandparents’ generations. The French had been studiedly uninterested in making sure all the Syrians they colonized (1920-1940s) got an education. But one thing nationalist governments are good at is spreading education. The internets say that “Literacy rate; youth total (% of people ages 15-24) in Syria was last measured at 94.43 in 2009, according to the World Bank.” Of course, being literate is not the same thing as having an analytical education. Syria was isolated and under US economic sanctions, which harmed education as it harmed other sectors. Obama must know this, but does not mention it.

Likewise, Obama seems unaware that long before Nouri al-Maliki became prime minister in Iraq in 2006, the United States had cooperated with hard line Shiites in imposing severe unemployment on the Sunni Arabs of Iraq. Right from 2003, “debaathification,” the dissolution of the Iraqi Army, and the deliberate destruction of state factories, all policies of the US government, threw over half of Sunni Arabs out of work. The discontents of Sunni Arabs in the first instance were this US-imposed unemployment and downward mobility. Al-Maliki merely continued the punitive policies of Paul Bremer in this regard.

Unlike in Syria, in Iraq the educational achievements of nationalist governments were reversed in the 1990s by very severe US and international sanctions, causing literacy rates actually to fall. These same sanctions destroyed the Iraq middle classes and denied the country chlorine for water purification, leading to the deaths of some 500,000 Iraqi children in the 1990s. As with Syria, Iraqis did not begin by fighting over sectarian identity, but were mobilized by politicians and paramilitaries into those identities over time once the US invasion caused a political vacuum and groups sought to step into it.

Obama gets it right that ISIL is a political problem, not primarily a military one. But he gets it wrong that it is rooted in primordial identity politics. It was the US that destroyed the Arab Left during the Cold War and after, and which created the conditions under which the religious Right provided peoples’ politics.

Nor can Obama’s air and drone strikes in Syria actually hold at bay the forces unleashed by Neoliberalism and fossil fuel-driven climate change, as he asserts. Rather, they will likely further polarize these populations and make ISIL popular. Imperialism, having created many of the problems of the modern Middle East, isn’t usually the answer to them.
Incelfrikandel
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 12:10:49 #32
343860 UpsideDown
Baas Boven Baas
pi_145049238
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:09 schreef De_Guidance het volgende:

[..]

Daarom gaan ze het niet alleen doen lijkt mij. Internationaal verband is toch hun voorwaarde? :P
Ik zou er niet te ligt over denken iig, er zitten nogal wat haken en ogen aan zo'n actie. :7
Say what?
pi_145049283
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:09 schreef UpsideDown het volgende:

[..]

Juridisch valt Turkije dan Syri binnen zonder VN-mandaat en Rusland en Iran zullen Syri steunen.
Sowieso gaan ze het nooit alleen doen.

Tenminste, als ze slim zijn.

En zo gauw je er een paar NAVO landen bij betrekt, heb je het als Turkije slim gespeeld denk ik.


Maar goed, tenzij die NAVO landen weggaan en de Turken daarna met de gebakken peren zitten.
pi_145049292
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:07 schreef UpsideDown het volgende:

[..]

Dat zullen de Turken een bloedige oorlog ingezogen worden.
Onwaarschijnlijk. Ze zijn nu al drie jaar aan het vechten in dat gebied. De Turken hebben voldoende overwicht in en rondom eigen land. Helemaal samen met de NAVO.

Het leger van Assad is zwaar verzwakt, de FSA is nooit echt van de grond gekomen en IS blijft een los verband van jihadisten.
The problem is not the occupation, but how people deal with it.
pi_145049326
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:09 schreef UpsideDown het volgende:

[..]

Juridisch valt Turkije dan Syri binnen zonder VN-mandaat en Rusland en Iran zullen Syri steunen.
Tenzij de belangen van Rusland en Iran gewaarborgd blijven. Het is niet alsof nu opeens Assad wordt vervangen door een Westers-gezinde dictator.
The problem is not the occupation, but how people deal with it.
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 12:15:56 #36
343860 UpsideDown
Baas Boven Baas
pi_145049412
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:13 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

Tenzij de belangen van Rusland en Iran gewaarborgd blijven. Het is niet alsof nu opeens Assad wordt vervangen door een Westers-gezinde dictator.
Dat is wel waar Turkije op zinspeelt, het vertrek van Assad.
Say what?
pi_145049458
Gevechten in Kirkoek tussen IS en Peshmerga.
pi_145049495
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 12:04 schreef WorldPeaceLeader het volgende:

[..]

Hoe weet je trouwens dat die vrouwen hoeren zijn, was je erbij?
ja ik heb ze goed te grazen genomen
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 15:24:32 #39
421524 SadPanda
#FreePalestine #FreeBahrain
pi_145055522
joshua_landis twitterde op maandag 29-09-2014 om 23:10:25 US bombs Liwaa al-Haqq, powerful Islamic Front militia in Homs area, causing outrage http://t.co/qNGTyqq7Dp http://t.co/jDDwiknXfM reageer retweet
Anti-Turkije
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 15:29:46 #40
421524 SadPanda
#FreePalestine #FreeBahrain
pi_145055705
Doctors die de Gezi demonstranten hielpen worden vervolgd in Turkije, maar Erdogan steunt ISIS niet hoor!11
https://www.todayszaman.c(...)rotester_359833.html

WashingtonPoint twitterde op maandag 29-09-2014 om 23:08:50 There reason ISIS hasn't stopped attacking Kobane acc 2 @ABC, 'perhaps bc ISIS may be getting some help from Turkey.http://t.co/uCRUy2xiF5 reageer retweet
Anti-Turkije
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 15:36:51 #41
421524 SadPanda
#FreePalestine #FreeBahrain
pi_145055950
Syrian Opposition In The Dark Over US Airstrikes
The head of the Free Syrian Army has told Sky News there has been no co-operation between his fighters and the US-led coalition launching airstrikes against Islamic State (IS) targets.

FSA chief of staff General Abdul-ilah Al Bashir said the first he heard of military intervention was from his own fighters on the ground and international media reports.

"They didn't let us know and didn't co-ordinate with us, even until now. As an armed force we haven't been briefed," he said.
http://news.sky.com/story(...)k-over-us-airstrikes

_O-
Anti-Turkije
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 16:00:10 #42
343860 UpsideDown
Baas Boven Baas
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 16:11:11 #43
421524 SadPanda
#FreePalestine #FreeBahrain
pi_145057190
RUSSIA SHIPS ANTI-AIRCRAFT MISSILES TO SYRIA
Russia last week sent a shipment of anti-aircraft missiles to the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, according to informed Middle Eastern security officials speaking to WND.

Another shipment of Russian weaponry is currently on the way to Syria, the officials said.

The officials said last week’s shipment arrived at the port city of Tartus on the Mediterranean coast of Syria, where Russia maintains a naval base.
http://www.wnd.com/2014/0(...)#uS9A3hTZ5kpsiehX.99

FiratGunay twitterde op dinsdag 30-09-2014 om 01:44:55 @FiratGunay My analyse: Nato WANTS Kobani to fall in order to try to implement their bufferzone for z sake of NeoOttoman Sultan Erdogan reageer retweet
FiratGunay twitterde op dinsdag 30-09-2014 om 01:46:11 @FiratGunay If they manage to implement this buffer-zone they will bomb ISIS into pieces & declare themselve "saviors" reageer retweet
Anti-Turkije
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 16:20:10 #44
343860 UpsideDown
Baas Boven Baas
pi_145057512
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 16:11 schreef SadPanda het volgende:

FiratGunay twitterde op dinsdag 30-09-2014 om 01:44:55 @FiratGunay My analyse: Nato WANTS Kobani to fall in order to try to implement their bufferzone for z sake of NeoOttoman Sultan Erdogan reageer retweet
FiratGunay twitterde op dinsdag 30-09-2014 om 01:46:11 @FiratGunay If they manage to implement this buffer-zone they will bomb ISIS into pieces & declare themselve "saviors" reageer retweet
Lol, lijkt me niet wenselijk voor de NAVO zo'n grondinterventie.
Say what?
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 16:32:34 #45
343860 UpsideDown
Baas Boven Baas
pi_145057942

Vertaling ondertitel:
quote:
Summary of events in Syria for 27 28 September, 2014

-Provintsiya Damascus. In Dzhobare WHO continues to liberate the region from the militants An Nusra Front and Igishev. CAA confident displaces bandits freeing drma.

-As The Al Kalamun group of militants tried to attack the city Esalen Al Ward and village Juba.

- In the area of East Guta completely liberated city of Adra and its working town, as well as Tel Al Sawan. During the inspection areas were obnaruzhiny: a huge network of underground tunnels, a field hospital militants, a large quantity of ammunition and explosives. Demining.
Robbed and almost destroyed an ancient mosque.
Say what?
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 16:42:45 #46
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#FreePalestine #FreeBahrain
pi_145058382
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 16:20 schreef UpsideDown het volgende:

[..]

Lol, lijkt me niet wenselijk voor de NAVO zo'n grondinterventie.
Want? Hoe minder land de YPG/Syrische regering heeft hoe beter.
Anti-Turkije
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 16:48:05 #47
421524 SadPanda
#FreePalestine #FreeBahrain
pi_145058610
Embracing Assad Is a Better Strategy for the U.S. Than Supporting the Least Bad Jihadis
"The time has now come to bite the bullet, admit failure, and to permit -- if not assist -- Assad in quickly winding down the civil war in Syria and expelling the jihadis."

"We cannot both hate Assad and hate those jihadis (like ISIS) who also hate Assad. We fight, crudely put, with al-Qaeda in Syria and against al-Qaeda in Iraq."
http://www.huffingtonpost(...)2.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

INTERVIEW: US Should Hit All Militants in Syria
Syria's foreign minister said Monday that the U.S.-led bombing campaign should be expanded to target other militant groups besides the Islamic State group, noting that the fight against terrorism has aligned the Syrian regime with its Western and Arab opponents in a fight against a common enemy.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/(...)2098?singlePage=true
Anti-Turkije
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 16:54:49 #48
343860 UpsideDown
Baas Boven Baas
pi_145058883
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 16:42 schreef SadPanda het volgende:

[..]

Want? Hoe minder land de YPG/Syrische regering heeft hoe beter.
Zo denkt Turkije misschien, overige NAVO-leden hebben daar weinig belang bij.
Say what?
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 16:57:48 #49
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#FreePalestine #FreeBahrain
pi_145058985
quote:
0s.gif Op dinsdag 30 september 2014 16:54 schreef UpsideDown het volgende:

[..]

Zo denkt Turkije misschien, overige NAVO-leden hebben daar weinig belang bij.
De NAVO-leden zijn allemaal slaafs aan de VS.
Overige NAVO-leden hadden ook geen belang bij de interventie in Libi behalve Frankrijk misschien.
Anti-Turkije
  dinsdag 30 september 2014 @ 16:58:04 #50
421524 SadPanda
#FreePalestine #FreeBahrain
pi_145058994
Isham_AlAssad twitterde op dinsdag 30-09-2014 om 07:49:36 Batch of militants who surrendered to the #SAA to resolve the situation.. #Qudsayya suburb, Riff #Damascus, #Syria. http://t.co/vzcF6dL6rp reageer retweet
Anti-Turkije
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