Crisis Oekra�ne - Rusland #148 Interbellum

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:17 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Je ontkent nog steeds dat er bewijs is van Russische inmenging?

Deze discussie steekt telkens opnieuw de kop op. Daarom dit ene bewijsstuk. Het is een video waarin de eerdere leiding van de DPR zelf aan het woord is. Dat maakt het voor de Nederlander thuis nog het meest direct. Trek uw eigen conclusies.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:10 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Dat lijkt me de hoofdlijn.

twitter:

andresp95349437 twitterde op woensdag 10-09-2014 om 00:02:07 Is This The Cause of War? Oldest Pyramid On Earth Found Buried In Crimea, Ukraine! http://t.co/vceeQJyTpm via @youtube,#WW3,#Ukraine,#Iraq reageer retweet

Is This The Cause of War? Oldest Pyramid On Earth Found Buried In Crimea, Ukraine!

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:20 schreef agter het volgende:

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En dan dit nog erbij:

Oekraine heeft haar kernwapens ingeruild voor een soevereiniteitsgarantie van Amerika en Rusland! En laat die laatste het nu niet zo nauw nemen met soevereiniteit.
Ze zijn aan zoveel kanten zo hard genaaid door de Russen.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:23 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Hoeft niet maar zo is inmenging voor mij als burger nooit een bewijs. Alle info die ik krijg is uit derde hand. Zo kan iemand een land plat bombarderen zonder dat er een bewijs is wie het gedaan heeft.

Dus wat is het meest direct controleerbaar voor een burger? Dat zijn verklaringen uit de mond van de betrokkenen zelf. Als in dit geval de voormalige leiding duidelijk uitlegt waar zij vandaan komen en wat hun motieven zijn dan is dat veelzeggend.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:23 schreef meth1745 het volgende:
Wegens gebrek aan nieuws, een beetje TRU, of comic relief...

twitter:

andresp95349437 twitterde op woensdag 10-09-2014 om 00:02:07 Is This The Cause of War? Oldest Pyramid On Earth Found Buried In Crimea, Ukraine! http://t.co/vceeQJyTpm via @youtube,#WW3,#Ukraine,#Iraq reageer retweet

Is This The Cause of War? Oldest Pyramid On Earth Found Buried In Crimea, Ukraine!

Is This The Cause of War? Oldest Pyramid On Earth Found Buried In...

THIS IS JUST MIND BLOWING! VERY LITTLE INFO OUT THERE ON THESE PYRAMIDS! BUT WE KNOW 2 THINGS FOR SURE.1, THEY ARE BEING CALLED THE OLDEST,2) THEY ARE THERE!...

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:26 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Dit is een uniek fragment. Ik wil het best anders noemen, maar vanwege de veelzeggendheid van dat fragment hoort het thuis in het OP.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:27 schreef teckna het volgende:
Nu nog ontkennen dat de Russen daar zitten Hoe dik moet die plaat wel niet zijn? Wat is genoeg bewijs dat de Russen er zitten?

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:23 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Dat heeft Rusland slim gespeeld inderdaad.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:29 schreef agter het volgende:

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De Russen zijn al heel lang heel slim, met veel minder middelen dan de VS.
Maar ze zijn niet betrouwbaar.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:29 schreef SadPanda het volgende:

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Gewoon bewijs duh, bewijs dat militairen daar naar toe worden gestuurd door het leger.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:30 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Mensen hebben je al genoeg filmpjes laten zien.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:31 schreef SadPanda het volgende:

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Geen filmpje met bewijs.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:32 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Wel degelijk.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:31 schreef deelnemer het volgende:
NWS / [NWS FeedBack] Elkaar voor verotte vis uitmaken doen jullie maar in PM

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:29 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Daarom Rusland.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:32 schreef SadPanda het volgende:

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Post maar.

Ukraine War • An Entire Russian Army Battalion was seen near Krasnodon, Luhansk

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:32 schreef agter het volgende:

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Haha, jij bent pro Russisch?
Tis wel een heel taai en sterk volk.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:34 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Nee, ik ben niet pro Russisch in dit conflict.

En ja, apart volk.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:35 schreef agter het volgende:

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Nee hoor. Even hard headed als de Oekra�ners, de Polen etc. Gewoon trots op hun eigen land.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:37 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Ja hoor.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:39 schreef agter het volgende:

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Je bent een beetje onduidelijk vanavond. Wat bedoel je?

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:33 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Ukraine War • An Entire Russian Army Battalion was seen near Krasnodon, Luhansk

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:40 schreef SadPanda het volgende:

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Hoeft niet het Russische leger te zijn.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:40 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Ik vind het een apart volk, daar is toch niets onduidelijk aan?

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:41 schreef agter het volgende:

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En waarin wijkt het dan af van de Oekra�ners bijvoorbeeld?

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:40 schreef SadPanda het volgende:

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Hoeft niet het Russische leger te zijn.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:43 schreef Nintex het volgende:

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[ afbeelding ]

"Hoeft niet het Amerikaanse leger te zijn" - SadPanda

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:42 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

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Want ik zeg dat ik de Oekra�ners niet apart vind?

Ik vind zoveel volkeren, mensen apart. Dat is helemaal niet per definitie negatief hoor.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:26 schreef TweeGrolsch het volgende:

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Nou hoef je niet zo raar te doen. Dit bewijs is van hetzelfde niveau dat je normaal post.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:44 schreef agter het volgende:

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Dat vraag ik ook niet.
Ik vraag waarin jij het Russische volk vind afwijken ten opzichte van de Oekra�ense bevolking.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:43 schreef Nintex het volgende:

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[ afbeelding ]

"Hoeft niet het Amerikaanse leger te zijn" - SadPanda

[ afbeelding ]

"Hoeft niet het Duitse leger te zijn" - SadPanda

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:46 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Dat is leuk ingetypt, maar SadPanda wil een direct onmiskenbaar bewijs. Jij kunt wel een stukje plaatsen waarin staat dat de Russen daar zitten, maar dan plaats SadPanda een stukje waarin Poetin stelt dat dat niet zo is. Hwet is dus fijn als er iets is dat zo dicht mogelijk het ideaal van een bewijs nadert. Zelf is een rechtzaal verdwijnt een verklaring die iemand zelf aflegt iet automatisch in de prullenbak, omdat hij gelogen zou kunnen hebben.

Maar ik geeft toe, aan de eisen van SadPanda kan niemand voldoen. Hijzelf overigens ook niet.

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Time to end the bloody Ukraine conflict.... By: Katrina vanden Heuvel

If the United States and Europe were thinking rationally, the NATO summit in Wales last week would have been an opportunity to discuss a lasting resolution to the violent crisis in Ukraine, which has claimed thousands of lives and crippled the country’s economy. Instead, amid a fragile cease-fire agreement between Kiev and pro-Russian rebels in the east, the assembled world leaders used the summit for more belligerent talk and reckless saber-rattling, with their ultimate goal increasingly unclear. The goal seemed more preparing the NATO alliance for a new Cold War with Russia than exploring how to make peace, even as Moscow was helping to bring about the cease-fire agreement.

The meeting was just the most recent disturbing example of how cavalierly and cynically the NATO leaders — including President Obama — have escalated tensions, while dismissing opportunities to bring the conflict to a reasonable conclusion quickly. Absent from the discussion in Wales, among other things, was any recognition of NATO members’ own roles in triggering the crisis. Despite the dominant narrative that Russia is to blame for Ukraine’s uncertain future, history tells a different story — one in which the West’s provocative behavior has had predictable repercussions.

There would have been no civil war if the European Union’s leadership had not insisted on an exclusive association agreement that prejudiced Ukrainian industry in the east and trade with Russia, or if the United States and European nations had used their influence with the demonstrators to abide by the Feb. 21 agreement then-President Viktor Yanukovych signed, which would have handed more power to parliament and called for elections in December, or if the United States and Europe had been willing to work with Russia to restore the Feb. 21 agreement and calm worries in Crimea and the east about the rights of Russian-speaking Ukrainians.
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twitter:

sbobkov twitterde op dinsdag 09-09-2014 om 22:02:43 #Ukrainian territorial defense battalion #Cherkassy refused to go to front lines. Speaks volumes about morale of Ukr combat units. #ATO reageer retweet

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:53 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Klopt.

Maar als je iets beweerd dat niet in het straatje van SadPanda past, dan moet het aan de hoogste eisen voldoen (de exacte wetenschap schiet daarin nog tekort, het moet een absoluut bewijs zijn), en als het wel in het straatje van SadPanda past, is het gewoon waar.

Verder is SadPanda niet te negeren. Hij vult desnoods de helft van alle posten in ieder topic deel om zijn gelijk te halen.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:53 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Klopt.

Maar als je iets beweerd dat niet in het straatje van SadPanda past, dan moet het aan de hoogste eisen voldoen (de exacte wetenschap schiet daarin nog tekort, het moet een absoluut bewijs zijn), en als het wel in het straatje van SadPanda past, is het gewoon waar.

Verder is SadPanda niet te negeren. Hij vult desnoods de helft van alle posten in ieder topic deel om zijn gelijk te halen.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:53 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

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Klopt.

Maar als je iets beweerd dat niet in het straatje van SadPanda past, dan moet het aan de hoogste eisen voldoen (de exacte wetenschap schiet daarin nog tekort, het moet een absoluut bewijs zijn), en als het wel in het straatje van SadPanda past, is het gewoon waar.

Verder is SadPanda niet te negeren. Hij vult desnoods de helft van alle posten in ieder topic deel om zijn gelijk te halen.

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Stay Out of Ukraine, but Deploy Eastward
Andrew Bacevich is professor emeritus at Boston University. His online course, "America’s War for the Greater Middle East," goes live later this month.

NATO’s founding purpose was to defend its members. In fulfilling that purpose throughout the Cold War, it gained well-deserved recognition as history’s most successful alliance. Once the Cold War ended, in a misguided search for relevance, NATO began venturing “out of area,” seldom achieving success while exposing the limits of its capacity and compromising its cohesion.

The imperative of the moment is to restore NATO’s tattered credibility. Furthering enflaming the Ukraine crisis is unlikely to contribute to that end. Unless NATO members are willing to fight on Ukraine’s behalf, the alliance should refrain from meddling, tacitly acknowledging the existence of a Russian sphere of influence, much as it did in 1956 regarding Hungary and in 1968 with Czechoslovakia. Proud moments in freedom’s onward march? No, but in the long run prudent – as the presence of Hungary, the Czech Republic and Slovakia in the ranks of today’s NATO testifies.

So rather than further provoking Russia by suggesting that NATO’s eastward expansion will continue, the alliance should remove any doubts about its willingness to defend the territory it currently claims. Doing so requires more than brave speeches and more than creating a modest “rapid reaction force,” which will inevitably look more impressive on paper than in reality. You show what you’re willing to defend by putting boots on the ground.

This means deploying NATO forces to member states fronting on Russia, preeminently Poland and the Baltic Republics. These formations need not be large but neither should they be trivial – posing no threat to Russia, but sufficiently formidable to resist any incursion from the East.

The United States will inevitably provide the bulk of any troops deployed although the United Kingdom, France and other NATO members might provide small contingents. No Germans, please, though Germany might help defray the costs of establishing these new garrisons.

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Ukraine Needs and Deserves Support from NATO and the West
Celeste Ward Gventer, a former deputy assistant secretary of defense, is a national security fellow at the Clements Center for History, Strategy and Statecraft at the University of Texas at Austin. She is currently based in Naples, Italy.

NATO states can and should do more to help Ukraine fend off the “slow-motion” Russian invasion and aggression of Russian-backed separatists. There is nothing new about NATO conducting operations and providing assistance to nonmembers of the alliance. Indeed, it is routine (Kosovo, Afghanistan, Libya, et al).

Having recently spent four weeks in Ukraine working with its military, I do not believe that Ukrainian soldiers need others to do their fighting. They are tough, skilled and ready to battle ferociously for their nation. But their armed forces were starved for resources during the previous 25 years, particularly during the Yanukovich regime. Equipment was not modernized and Ukraine is now badly overmatched by new Russian weapons and surveillance assets. NATO allies could offer multiple forms of assistance that would plug gaps in Ukrainian capabilities and redress the imbalance.

The United States is providing Ukraine with nonlethal aid (though it is needed urgently and events are outpacing its arrival), but so far, too few others have stepped up. America cannot conduct this effort alone; it must work in common cause with European allies to help Ukraine defend itself. Unfortunately, too many Europeans are more concerned with finding an “off-ramp” to the crisis and are content to pretend away Russian aggression. Too many countries in NATO are in hock to Russia economically, politically or otherwise, and fear “provoking” Moscow. President Vladimir Putin knows this and skillfully employs his leverage.

Meanwhile, ordinary Ukrainians deposed a corrupt regime that looted the country of untold billions, may well have been a Russian proxy, and killed 77 of its own citizens during a peaceful demonstration on Maidan Square earlier this year. They democratically elected a new president, and are seeking membership in Western institutions. Russia, meanwhile, continues to unplug itself from occidental civilization. Ukraine, as a NATO partner, contributed military forces to Kosovo and to Afghanistan, as well as the war in Iraq and multiple peacekeeping operations around the world. Indeed, 18 Ukrainians gave their lives to support operations in Iraq.

Ukraine needs and deserves much greater support from NATO and Europe, and quickly. It is not action that is provocative now, but diffidence and passivity. If the West fails to fully help Ukraine, it will go down in history as an abdication of responsibility, set the example for future aggressors, weaken the confidence of allies on the front lines such as Estonia and Poland, and expose NATO as a talk shop, divided by conflicting loyalties that can easily be exploited.

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The West Is Wrong to See Putin as the Enemy
Boris Kagarlitsky is the director of the Institute of Globalization and Social Movements in Moscow at the Transnational Institute.

The debate about the role of NATO in Ukraine is starting too late: Western leaders already made a fatal decision to back the new Kiev government no matter what it is doing and no matter what the real situation is on the ground. That means that they will bear responsibility for the inevitable failures and disasters that will follow.

We can debate whether what happened in Kiev in February 2014 was an uprising or a coup d'etat, but one thing is clear: Ousted President Viktor Yanukovich was elected legally and democratically in a competitive election. He was corrupt, no doubt about it, but there are plenty of corrupt leaders in the West.

Of course, Western press blames Russia for what is happening in Ukraine -- it is easier to do that than to analyze a complex situation or to recognize Western leaders' own errors. And blaming President Vladimir Putin is also easy because it is true that Russia is in no way a model of democracy. The country has a well known record of electoral fraud and plenty of political prisoners. A year ago, Ukraine represented a merging democratic model for the post-Soviet region. But now, since the November 2013 coup, the country has it's share of political prisoners, death squads and electoral fraud. As for the scale of corruption, the current Kiev government seems worse than the Yanukovich administration.

For two months, the Ukrainian army bombed Donetsk and Luhansk without even offering them any humanitarian corridor or letting aide workers and journalists in. While the international community is rightly unhappy with Israel's operations in Gaza, much worse is happening in eastern Ukraine with little protest.

The West is wrong to see President Putin and his entourage as the enemies. These people in power in Moscow are as liberal and pro-Western as they can be given the current mood in Russia. Their only goal is to be friends of the West, and to send their children and their money to London and Zurich. They even supply the Ukrainian army with spare parts for tanks and helicopters that are being used to fight against pro-Russian Donetsk forces and Russian volunteers. If there is to be a change of government and a free election in Russia, a leadership will emerge that will be far more hostile to the West and less liberal than Putin.

Of course, there is a logic to what NATO is doing. It is based on the inertia of the Cold War, fueled by an economic crisis. This means that instead of transforming economic and social structures, European leadership is throwing more resources into a system that doesn't work. And this means expansion and conflict.

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NATO Should Not Be Defending a Nonmember Country
Jeffrey Sommers is an associate professor at the University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee and a senior fellow at its Institute of World Affairs. He is visiting faculty at the Stockholm School of Economics in Riga, Latvia, and the co-editor of "The Contradictions of Austerity: The Socio-Economic Costs of the Neoliberal Baltic Model."

NATO should not be defending a nonmember nation like Ukraine, but it can help the country (and everyone) by saying no to NATO expansion. Conflict in Ukraine resulted from Russia’s concern that another former Soviet republic would fall into the orbit of Western Europe. For Russia, Ukraine's admission to NATO would represent an existential threat as NATO encroached into the former Soviet bloc and then the former U.S.S.R. itself, despite promises by Secretary of State James Baker in 1990 that it would not. Europe sees this as defense. Russia, reflecting on World War II, sees it as encirclement. NATO sees itself as a benign alliance of democracies.

Vladimir Putin is no democrat, but rather a pragmatist committed to advancing Russian economic and geopolitical power. He has been a partner in the war on terror and previously hinted at wanting to join NATO. Rebuffed, that rebuke proved costly as it set him on a course of independent action from the West.

For most Europeans, Russia’s concerns are anchored in a past that no longer exists. Eastern and Central Europe had its own unpleasant experience with a neighbor: the U.S.S.R. But if Europe can resist the temptation to admit new entrants to NATO, it might find an accommodation with Russia that benefits all.

Europe can best help Ukraine by halting NATO expansion and working with Russia to develop it. The smart answer for Ukraine is "Finlandization" not NATO. Caught between East and West -- and once part of the Russian Empire and war with the U.S.S.R., after World War II -- Finland opted to develop its economy and security by engaging both Western Europe and the Soviet Union. The result was peace and prosperity in one of the great success stories of the 20th century.

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There Are Other Ways to Help Ukraine
Ian Bond is the director of foreign policy at the Centre for European Reform in London and a former British Ambassador to Latvia. He is on Twitter.

Whether Ukraine is a member of NATO matters less than whether defending it is in NATO’s security interest. Ukraine is not some distant microstate whose fate can be safely ignored; it is a country of 42 million people bordering on four NATO allies. The country attacking it borders on four more. In 2008 NATO promised Ukraine membership, once Kiev met the conditions and if it chose to apply.

At the time of the Gulf War, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher of Britain said: “Iraq's invasion of Kuwait defies every principle for which the United Nations stands. If we let it succeed, no small country can ever feel safe again.”

Change that to read “Russia’s invasion of Ukraine," and that is the reason NATO should support Ukraine. Inaction might encourage President Vladimir Putin to destabilize the Baltic States next, and other revisionist powers might follow his example elsewhere.

No one wants war with a nuclear-armed Russia, but the West is not powerless. First, NATO allies can supply Ukraine with weapons, intelligence and training. The performance of Ukrainian armed forces was improving until recently, but they cannot withstand the Russian forces now in Ukraine.

Second, the United States and especially the European Union can do much more to hit the Russian regime economically. Violating international law should have a cost. Sanctions may hurt fragile European economies, but they will hurt Russia more. For all the brave words of Russian leaders, replacing Europe as a market for Russian hydrocarbons and a source of goods and services would be tough and expensive.

Third, the E.U. can help Ukraine to reform economically and politically. Putin wants to show that real democracy in the former Soviet Union always fails. A prosperous, modern Ukrainian state would be the best retort.

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NATO Should Act in Europe’s Defense, Not Ukraine’s
Alexandra de Hoop Scheffer is a senior trans-Atlantic fellow and the director of the Paris office of the German Marshall Fund of the United States.

Most Europeans support Ukraine but are reluctant to provide it arms or training to defend itself, a recent poll found. This reflects the ambiguous responses of European and NATO leadership. The Ukrainian crisis has revealed the political limits of the alliance, as leaders have been unable to promote the case for intervention.

Article 5 of the NATO treaty, which says that an attack on one NATO member is an attack on all, establishes the credibility of the alliance but its strict constraints have also prevented a clear strategy for defending nonmember nations. There needs to be a middle-way between Article 5 and a complete absence of reaction, especially when the security of NATO partners is affected.

In the case of Ukraine, the legitimacy of NATO’s reaction is based on the need to protect international rules and values, not on Article 5. As such, NATO should not defend Ukraine as a nonmember nation, and therefore create a precedent, but should defend the international order that has been threatened by the violations of Ukrainian territory.

NATO’s deterrence policy clearly failed to prevent the conflict in Ukraine, despite the strategic partnership with Ukraine and the geographical proximity. Indeed, Russian leadership did not believe NATO would engage its forces as long as Article 5 was not at stake. The rigidity of Article 5 and Putin’s clever use of Ukrainian internal division have enabled the invasion of a European country, which was unimaginable a few years ago.

NATO’s future as a collective defense alliance is said to have found a new raison-d’�tre in the Ukrainian crisis. I would argue, however, that Putin’s bluff has also highlighted the divisions within the organization, and that this crisis could eventually widen the perception gap between eastern European and western European member-states.

NATO needs to seize this opportunity to strongly reaffirm its determination to protect Europe’s territorial integrity and rethink its deterrence policy beyond Article 5.

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NATO Must Stop Russian Aggression in Ukraine
Artis Pabriks, Latvia's former minister of defense and foreign minister, is a member of the European Parliament.

The question of NATO military support for a nonmember country depends on the case. But Ukraine has been openly invaded. I strongly believe that along with diplomatic efforts and economic sanctions against Russia, NATO should provide Ukraine with resources -- such as modern communication equipment, intelligence sharing and cyber assistance -- to resist the Russian invasion.

If we fail to change Russia's aggressive behavior toward Ukraine, it will endanger the future security of other NATO members because the current Russian government view that “might is right” will be reinforced. If Ukraine falls, it is likely that Russian leadership will be unwilling, and even unable, to stop their revisionist policy. This will endanger neighboring members of the alliance, requiring greater political and economic resources to bring Russia to its senses and avoid future escalation elsewhere.

NATO and the European Union are both based on moral values that demand us to support weaker nations suffering foreign invasion who have chosen to become democratic countries. What is going on is a a crime against humanity and we can't silently walk away. This especially applies to our elected European and American leaders.

Unfortunately, we have already been delaying such support and time is ticking away. We have to act now to avoid a greater disaster and to uphold our common beliefs in liberal democracy, freedom, justice and human rights.

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About the severed heads - a third force in the conflict in Ukraine is constantly improving the degree of hatred through the fakes of atrocities on both sides, 18 +.

The third force in the civil war in Ukraine is constantly pits the two sides, publishing fake about atrocities on both sides. Another fake of this force - pictures about allegedly severed head of fighters Donetsk Republic, that received their mothers. This is the second photo in this publication.

In the text of the fake report was mentioned that a military committee of Donetsk republic launched inspection and identification of the remains. In common all fake was concocted perfectly, fascists atrocities are known to all. Very many sites and bloggers believe this bogus and spread it. None of them didn't guess to check the official sites of the Donetsk People's Republic, in which not a single word about this atrocity and the investigation. Because it was a fake, masterfully invented story.
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Authors of fakes reached the target - level of hatred against the fasciss grew and people were prepared to see real cut-off heads. Also the people from the other side of the front, from the side of fascists ready for more violent crimes. This is not the first, nor the last, such fakes for mutual hatred.
It is obvious that some third force eager to destroy all the inhabitants of the former Ukraine by their own hands.

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Losing Credibility: The IMF’s New Cold War Loan to Ukraine

In April 2014, fresh from riots in Maidan Square and the February 22 coup, and less than a month before the May 2 massacre in Odessa, the IMF approved a $17 billion loan program to Ukraine’s junta. Normal IMF practice is to lend only up to twice a country’s quote in one year. This was eight times as high.

Four months later, on August 29, just as Kiev began losing its attempt at ethnic cleansing against the eastern Donbas region, the IMF signed off on the first loan ever to a side engaged in a civil war, not to mention rife with insider capital flight and a collapsing balance of payments. Based on fictitiously trouble-free projections of the ability to pay, the loan supported Ukraine’s hernia currency long enough to enable the oligarchs’ banks to move their money quickly into Western hard-currency accounts before the hernia plunged further and was worth even fewer euros and dollars.

This loan demonstrates the degree to which the IMF is an arm of U.S. Cold War politics. Kiev used the loan for military expenses to attack the Eastern provinces, and the loan terms imposed the usual budget austerity, as if this would stabilize the country’s finances. Almost nothing will be received from the war-torn East, where basic infrastructure has been destroyed for power generation, water, hospitals and the civilian housing areas that bore the brunt of the attack. Nearly a million civilians are reported to have fled to Russia. Yet the IMF release announced: “The IMF praised the government’s commitment to economic reforms despite the ongoing conflict.”[1] A quarter of Ukraine’s exports normally are from eastern provinces, and are sold mainly to Russia. But Kiev has been bombing Donbas industry and left its coal mines without electricity.

This loan is bound to create even more dissension among IMF staff economists than broke out openly over the disastrous $47 billion loan to Greece – at that time the largest loan in IMF history – prompted a 50-page internal document leaked to the Wall Street Journal acknowledging that the IMF had “badly underestimated the damage that its prescriptions of austerity would do to Greece’s economy.” Staff economists blamed pressure from eurozone countries protecting their own “banks [that] held too much Greek government debt. … The IMF had originally projected Greece would lose 5.5% of its economic output between 2009 and 2012. The country has lost 17% in real gross domestic output instead. The plan predicted a 15% unemployment rate in 2012. It was 25%.[2]

The IMF’s Articles of Agreement forbid it to make loans to countries that clearly cannot pay, prompting its economists to complain at last year’s October 2013 annual meeting in Washington that their institution was violating its rules by making bad loans “to states unable to repay their debts.” In practice, the IMF simply advances however much a government needs to bail out its bankers and bondholders, pretending that more austerity enhances the ability to pay, not worsen it. Ukraine looks like a replay of the Greek situation with an exclamation mark! One official last year called its Debt Sustainability Analysis, “‘a joke,’ a [European] commission official described it ‘a fairy tale to put children to sleep’ and a Greek finance ministry official said it was ‘scientifically ridiculous.’”[3]

John Helmer’s Dances with Bears calculates that “of the $3.2 billion disbursed to the Ukrainian treasury by the IMF at the start of May, $3.1 billion had disappeared offshore by the middle of August.”[4]
This raises the question of whether the IMF’s loan is legally an “odious debt,” being made to a military junta and stolen by government insiders. The IMF acknowledged that the central bank was simply turning money over to the kleptocrats who run the country’s banks as part of their conglomerates (as well as funding the government’s military attack on the East, largely on behalf of the leading kleptocrats behind the Maidan coup). “The proportion of government securities and loans to banks increased from 28 percent of NBU total assets at end-2010 to 56 percent at end-April 2014.” The financial situation is getting so much worse that to stave off insolvency, Ukraine’s leading banks are reported to need another $5 billion over and above the IMF’s $17 billion commitment.

In preparation for October’s scheduled elections, the eastern provinces are in no condition to vote, and the junta has banned the Communist party as well as TV and media reporting that it does not like (mainly in the Russian language). The leading pro-war parties are polling very low even in the West (as of early September), prompting warnings of a coup by the Right Sector and allied neo-Nazi Ukrainian nationalists, headed by the oligarch Igor Kolomoyskyy, who fields his own private army.

A defeat in war frequently leads to regime change. The spectre of a coup is once again roaming the streets and squares of Kyiv. Surviving National Guard fighters are threatening to turn their weapons on Poroshenko. A third Maydan [Independence Square protest movement] is taking shape, which is to sweep aside the present regime. The instigators of this Maydan are militants from the punitive battalions created with Kolomoyskyy’s money. It is obvious that the oligarch is playing his game against Poroshenko. Subordinate to him Kolomoyskyy has quite a strong private army capable of carrying out a coup.[5]

IMF- and US-backed privatization plans for Ukraine

Ukraine’s main problem is that its debt is denominated in dollars and euros. There seems only one way for Ukraine to raise the foreign exchange to repay the IMF: by selling its natural resources, headed by gas rights and agricultural land. Here the shadowy figure of Kolomoyskyy resurfaces, with support from the United States. Recent Senate Bill 2277 “directs the U.S. Agency for International Development to guarantee loans for every phase of the development of oil and gas” in Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia.

Vice President Joe Biden’s son, R. Hunter Biden, recently was appointed to the board of Burisma, a Ukrainian oil and gas company registered in Cyprus, long a favorite for post-Soviet operators. The firm has enough influence over Kiev politics to make prospective gas-fracking lands a military objective. “Ukrainian troopers help installing shale gas production equipment near the east Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, which they bombed and shelled for the three preceding months, the Novorossiya news agency reports on its website citing local residents. Civilians protected by Ukrainian army are getting ready to install drilling rigs. More equipment is being brought in, they said, adding that the military are encircling the future extraction area.”[6]

One report notes the extent to which “pro-Russian” means opposing a gas grab:

The people of Slavyansk, which is located in the heart of the Yzovka shale gas field, staged numerous protest actions in the past against its development. They even wanted to call in a referendum on that subject. … Countries like the Czech Republic, the Netherlands and France have given up plans to develop shale gas deposits in their territories. Not only them but also all-important Germany, which two weeks ago announced it would halt shale-gas drilling for the next seven years over groundwater pollution concerns.[7]

U.S. and IMF backing seems intended to help reduce European dependence on Russian gas so as to squeeze its balance of payments. The idea is that lower gas revenues will squeeze Russia’s ability to maneuver in today’s New Cold War. But this strategy involves a potentially embarrassing U.S. alliance with Kolomoyskyy, reportedly the major owner of Burisma via his Privat Bank. He “was appointed by the coup regime to be governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, a south-central province of Ukraine. Kolomoysky also has been associated with the financing of brutal paramilitary forces killing ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine.”[8] The term “ethnic Russian” is a kakaism for local protest against fracking by kleptocrats privatizing the economy’s natural resource wealth.

It will be expensive to restore power and water facilities that have been destroyed by the Kiev forces in Donetsk, which faces a cold dark winter. Kiev has stopped paying pensions and other revenue to the Eastern Ukraine, all but guaranteeing its separatism. Even before the Maidan events the local population sought to prevent gas fracking, just as Germany and other European countries have opposed it.

Also opposed is the appropriation of land and other properties by Ukrainian kleptocrats and especially foreigners such as Monsanto, which has invested in genetically engineered grain projects in Ukraine, seeing the country as Europe’s Achilles Heel when it comes to resisting GMOs. A recent report by the Oakland Institute, Walking on the West Side: the World Bank and the IMF in the Ukraine Conflict, describes IMF-World Bank pressure to deregulate Ukrainian agricultural land use and promote its sale to U.S. and other foreign investors. The World Bank’s Investment Finance Corporation (IFC) has “advised the country to ‘delete provisions regarding mandatory certification of food in the listed laws of Ukraine and Government Decree,’” and “to avoid ‘unnecessary cost for businesses’” by regulations on pesticides, additives and so forth.[9]

Yet neither Russia nor many European countries accept genetically engineered foods. It would seem that the only way Ukraine can export GMO crops is if U.S. diplomats pressure Europe to drop its GMO labeling. This would drive yet another wedge between the United States and European NATO members, much as U.S. pressure to impose sanctions on Russia (“Let’s you and him fight”) has done.

U.S. stratagems to save Ukraine from having to pay its debts to Russia

The “inner contradiction” in the IMF loan is that Ukraine owes the entire amount to Russia for gas arrears and current needs as winter nears, and also for the euro loan by Russia’s sovereign wealth fund on strictly commercial terms with cross-defaults if Ukrainian debt rises above 60 percent of GDP. The U.S. Cold War response is to try to craft a legal argument to minimize payments to Russia out of IMF and NATO “reconstruction” lending. The Peterson Institute for International Economics has floated a proposal by former Treasury official Anna Gelpern to deprive Russia of legal means to enforce its claims on Ukraine. “A single measure can free up $3 billion for Ukraine,” she proposed. Britain’s Parliament might pass a law declaring the $3 billion bond negotiated by Russia’s sovereign wealth fund to be “foreign aid,” not a real commercial loan contract worthy of legal enforcement. “The United Kingdom can refuse to enforce English-law contracts for the money Russia lent,” thereby taking “away creditor remedies for default on this debt.”[10]

The problem with this ploy is that Russia’s sovereign wealth fund lent Ukraine euros with strict financial protection aimed at limiting the country’s overall debt to just 60 percent of its GDP. If debt rises above this level, Russia has the right to demand full immediate payment, triggering cross-default clauses in Ukraine’s foreign debt.

As recently as yearend 2013, Ukraine’s public debt amounted to just over 40 percent – a seemingly manageable $73 billion. But in view of the fact that Ukraine had only a B+ rating – below Russian sovereign fund normal limits of requiring at least an AA rating for bond investments – Russia acted in a prudent financial way by inserting protection clauses precisely to distinguish its investment from general purpose aid. Unlike foreign aid, Russia’s loan gives it “power to trigger a cascade of defaults under Ukraine’s other bonds and a large block of votes in any future bond restructuring. This is because all of the government’s bonds are linked among themselves. When one bond defaults, the rest can do the same.”

What the U.S. Government classifies as foreign aid also typically takes the form of loans to be repaid, and insists on matching funds in local currency, e.g. for Public Law 480 food exports. Congress insisted already during the Kennedy Administration that the U.S. balance of payments, and specifically its farm exports, must benefit from any such “aid.”[11]

Waging civil war is expensive, and Ukraine’s currency is rupturing. The black market exchange rate already is reported to have plunged by one-third. If recognized officially (once the kleptocrats have moved their money out at IMF-supported hernia rates), this would raise the country’s debt/GDP ratio to the 60 percent threshold making the debt to Russia payable immediately.

“Governments do not normally sue one another to collect their debts in national courts,” Prof. Gelpern points out. But if this should occur, the pari passu rule would prevent some debts from being annulled selectively. She therefore raises another possibility for how to prevent IMF and NATO credit from being paid to Russia for its bondholdings and gas arrears. Ukraine may claim that its debt to Russia is “odious.” This applies to situations where “an evil ruler signs contracts that burden future generations long after the ruler is deposed.” She adds that “Repudiating all debts incurred under Yanukovich would discourage lending to corrupt leaders.”

The double standard here is that instead of labeling Ukraine’s entire series of post-1991 kleptocratic governments odious, she singles out only Yanukovich, as if his predecessors and successors are not equally venal. But an even greater danger in trying to declare Ukraine’s debt “odious”: It may backfire on the United States, given its own support for military dictatorships and kleptocracies.

In contrast to IMF loans to support the kleptocrats’ banks and new Cold War asset grabs from the Eastern border provinces with Russia, Ukraine’s sale of bonds to Russia’s sovereign debt fund and its contracts signed for gas purchases were negotiated by a democratically elected government, at prices that subsidized domestic industry and also household consumption. Unlike the case with Greece, there was no removal of a national leader to prevent a public referendum from taking place over whether to approve the loan or not. If the Ukrainian debt is deemed odious, what of Eurozone loans to Ireland and Greece or U.S. loans to Argentina’s generals installed under Operation Condor? Gelpern acknowledges that Ukrainian refusal to pay the bonds by invoking the odious debt principle “is fraught with legal, political and market risks, all of which would play into Russia’s hands.” Indeed!

This leaves the most promising solution to hurt Russia to be the above-mentioned ploy for Britain’s Parliament to pass a sanctions law invalidating “the Yanukovich bonds.” Such a sanctions law would reduce Russia’s “ability to profit from selling the debt on the market” simply by denying Russia legal rights to grab Ukrainian assets. It also would destroy London as a leading global financial center.

Gelpern concludes her paper by suggesting a universal principle: that contracts “used to advance military and political objectives … should lose their claim to court enforcement.”

I love this suggestion!

It certainly would open a can of worms in view of the fact that “[t]he United Kingdom and the United States have both used military force in the past to collect debts and influence weaker countries. Is it legitimate for them to punish Russia for doing the same?” Are not the vast majority of inter-governmental debts either military or political in character?
On this logic, shouldn’t most inter-governmental debts be wiped out? Do not Gelpern’s arguments cited for not paying Russia serve even more to provide a legal basis for nullifying Ukraine’s debt to the IMF and subsequent NATO loans on terms that force it to forfeit its natural resource rights for gas and land to foreign investors?

Prof. Gelpern’s legal review is ostensibly seeking reasons to isolate Russia economically. It thus has the seemingly ironic effect of showing the legal and political difficulties in trying to achieve this. If Ukraine borrows from the IMF and/or EU, and then breaks up – with the East becoming independent – who will be obliged to pay? Certainly not the East, attacked by the military coup leaders.

So we are brought back to this month’s financial news in preparation for next month’s IMF annual meeting: Where then does the Ukrainian loan leave the IMF’s credibility?

quote:

Lavrov said today that the UK's a building up a huge amount of forces, especially heavy artillery, near Donetsk, that the Russians believe will be used to attack the city.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:40 schreef SadPanda het volgende:

[..]

Hoeft niet het Russische leger te zijn.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 05:51 schreef meth1745 het volgende:

[..]

http://michael-hudson.com(...)war-loan-to-ukraine/

kan de reacties al raden:
"Ukraine’s junta "

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 03:54 schreef Linkse_Boomknuffelaar het volgende:
Ondertussen in het land van vrijheid en democratie:

Нищета по-американски / American poverty

quote:

Iran’s Talks With Russia May Strike at Sanctions

Iran sent new signals on Tuesday that it was seeking to subvert the Western sanctions on its contentious nuclear energy program, adding uncertainties in advance of another round of negotiations next week in New York before the United Nations General Assembly.

The Iranians said they had been engaged in talks with Russia, a member of the group of big powers negotiating with Tehran, about economic cooperation in energy, which could undercut the sanctions. South Africa, a former Iranian oil customer that has honored the sanctions in deference to Western pressure, said that, after talks with an Iranian delegation, it hoped to resume imports in three months.

On Monday, Iran’s negotiator at the nuclear talks, Abbas Araghchi, the deputy foreign minister, said his country would not countenance any new economic penalties imposed by the United States, after an announcement by the Obama administration last month that it was adding more than 25 Iranian individuals and companies to a sanctions blacklist.

The atmosphere contrasts starkly with President Hassan Rouhani’s first visit to the United Nations last September for the General Assembly’s annual convergence of world leaders. The Iranian president spoke optimistically of a new era and prospects for a nuclear deal — capped by a groundbreaking telephone conversation with President Obama.

Since then, a temporary agreement reached in November eased some of the sanctions against Iran in exchange for a freeze on most of its nuclear activities. Negotiators extended the talks, creating a new deadline for a permanent agreement by this November, but there has been little sign of substantive progress.

Iran and the so-called P5-plus-1 group — permanent Security Council members Britain, China, France, Russia and the United States, plus Germany — are scheduled to reconvene in New York on Sept. 18, a few days before the General Assembly.

Both Mr. Rouhani and Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran’s supreme leader, have been asserting with increased frequency that should there be no nuclear agreement, the sanctions would fracture.

The Iranians may just be posturing as part of a negotiation strategy to exert pressure on the Obama administration, which has made a nuclear agreement an important foreign policy objective.

But some experts who have followed the negotiations say Mr. Khamenei, who deeply mistrusts the United States and has the final word on any deal, now believes Iran can withstand the economic consequences of any new sanctions should diplomacy fail.

Some analysts have speculated that Iran’s conservative hard-liners, who oppose any rapprochement with the United States, have convinced Mr. Khamenei that improved economic ties with Russia — which also faces sanctions by the West over the Ukraine crisis — have given Iran new leverage.

Last month, Russia and Iran signed a memorandum in which Russia would buy Iranian crude oil and Iran would purchase energy equipment, machinery and food, a deal that American officials have warned would be a sanctions violation.

On Tuesday, Ali Majedi, Iran’s deputy oil minister, was quoted by state news media as reiterating that Iran and Russia would “develop cooperation” in energy and petrochemicals industries.

“What Russia did was give Iranian hard-liners an argument to Khamenei, that in a no-deal scenario, Iran has an economic lifeline from Russia, which is why we don’t need to have this deal stuffed down our throats,” Cliff Kupchan, the Middle East director at the Eurasia Group, a political risk consultancy in Washington, said in a telephone interview.

In an emailed report to clients on Thursday, Mr. Kupchan and Greg Priddy, the group’s global oil director, downgraded the possibility of a nuclear accord to 40 percent from 60 percent.

quote:

Rosneft struggles to grow as sanctions hit Russia's oil champion

(Reuters) - The Kremlin's prized oil firm Rosneft is cutting staff and production and selling stakes in Siberian fields in the strongest evidence to date that Western sanctions are hurting what was the world's fastest growing oil firm in recent years.

The sanctions imposed on Russia by the United States and Europe in response to its military action in Ukraine have cut Rosneft's (ROSN.MM) access to Western financing and technology, complicating the servicing of its $55 billion debt and closing the way to cutting-edge industrial science it needs to keep developing its energy resources.

Few doubt that Rosneft will be able to withstand the pressure medium-term - its earnings amount to $30 billion a year and billions more are still available via Chinese credit lines and Russian state coffers in case of emergency.

But the world's biggest listed oil producer - which produces more oil than OPEC members Iraq or Iran - faces unprecedented challenges to its long-term expansion and modernization plans.

Last week Rosneft said it would cut staff to reduce costs: Kommersant business daily said Rosneft's Moscow headquarters would see cuts of up to 25 percent from the current 4,000.

These would be the first significant job losses at a company that swelled via the acquisition of rivals such as YUKOS, pushed into bankruptcy some ten years ago by the government of President Vladimir Putin.

Since then Rosneft's output has risen 10-fold to exceed 4 million barrels per day or four percent of global supply. But last week it reported a 1.3 percent production drop in August, as production in West Siberia regions declines.

The firm, which alongside gas monopoly Gazprom (GAZP.MM) is a top contributor to the Russian budget, needs to invest heavily to bring new east Siberian fields online - a costly endeavour now made more difficult by the sanctions squeeze.

In a sign of the challenge such a project now presents, Putin said last week Rosneft would welcome China buying a stake in the prized Siberian Vankor field. It was a major about-turn given the Kremlin's long resistance to allowing its powerful neighbour access to such deposits.

"Rosneft's decision to offer China a stake in the mega Vankor oil field in East Siberia signals that Moscow's bargaining position has been further weakened by sanctions and that it needs the capital infusion," said Emily Stromquist, analyst at Eurasia.
[..]
Though the Russian state and Chinese allies may keep money flowing to Rosneft, they cannot supply vital technology.

Rosneft said last week it planned to replace all equipment and technology imports from the West as the U.S. and EU sanctions halted all trade with the firms upon which it usually relies for such essentials.

In the meantime however it will struggle to find what it needs to develop shale and deep water Arctic oil because Russia has made little progress in building its own services sector.

Just last May, Energy Minister Alexander Novak asked Putin to boost funding of domestic equipment producers because a quarter of all equipment used in oil output enhancement was imported.

Russia is particularly dependent on the West for catalysts, refining equipment and gas turbine parts, meaning complicated refinery modernisation works are seen almost impossible to achieve without the access to Western know-how.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 08:05 schreef Happel het volgende:

[..]

Hoe komen de separatisten aan al dat wapentuig. Door wie worden ze gefinancierd?

quote:

Lavrov: Shanghai Cooperation Organization May Begin to Expand Later This Year

MOSCOW, September 10 (RIA Novosti) - Pakistan, India and Iran may be able to join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) in the near future, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.

"At the summit in Dushanbe, we will make decisions that will complete the formation of the legal, administrative and financial conditions for the admission of new members to the SCO. This will provide an opportunity to begin the expansion process during the Russian presidency," Lavrov said in an article published on Wednesday in Rossiyskaya Gazeta.

Lavrov recalled that Pakistan, India and Iran have already expressed their wish to become full members of the organization.

The minister noted that Russia intends to give priority to further enhancement of the SCO’s efficiency, the consolidation of efforts in order to ensure an adequate response to the events in the region and the whole world.

SCO’s true priority is still the regional security, in particular – the increase in opportunities for joint fight against terrorism, extremism, drug trafficking, especially against in the light of the situation in Afghanistan, the minister said.

On September 11-12, an SCO summit will be held in Dushanbe. It will be attended by the leaders of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, China, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, heads and representatives of observers and guests of the summit, as well as international organizations. Immediately after the meeting, Russia will become the chairman of the organization for one year, till the next summit.

quote:

No vaccine stocks in crisis-hit Ukraine: WHO

Geneva (AFP) - Conflict-torn Ukraine is facing a health emergency, with no stocks of any vaccines and dire shortages of many medicines, the World Health Organization warned Tuesday.

"Ukraine has no vaccines... They don't have any vaccines in their storage," said Dorit Nitzan, who heads WHO's country office in Ukraine.

"Even before the crisis they had low (immunisation) coverage," she told reporters in Geneva, stressing that there was a dearth of "every kind of vaccine."

The shortage raises deep concerns that polio could break out in Ukraine, Nitzan said, pointing out that the crippling disease that mainly hits young children "usually comes in countries in turmoil."

The conflict in eastern Ukraine has killed more than 2,700 people and forced more than half a million people to flee their homes, according to UN figures.

The fighting on top of Ukraine's already weak health system and dwindling supplies of medicines has created "a looming health emergency," WHO warned.

The UN agency pointed out that some 7,000 people had been injured in the fighting.

At the same time, 32 hospitals are no longer fully functioning -- 17 of them have been shelled and damaged -- while up to 70 percent of health staff have fled the conflict-hit eastern areas of Donetsk and Lugansk.

The health needs in Ukraine are "immense", Nitzan said.

WHO said it and its partners aim to step up their health services in the country, and plan to provide medicine and medical supplies to some 340,000 people.

In mid-August, WHO had appealed for $14 million (11 million euros) to scale up its Ukraine operations, but has so far received just $40,000, Nitzan said.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 08:15 schreef firefly3 het volgende:

[..]

Hij leeft in zijn eigen fantasiewereldje. Valt niet mee logisch te beredeneren helaas.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 04:01 schreef SuicideErrorist het volgende:
Ondertussen in Dnepropetrovsk:

[ afbeelding ]

"GVD NOVJIA RUS'JA OEKRAEUIENI�� MOORDENA�AAT"

Google "3 guys, 1 sickle" en je ziet waartoe dit tuig in staat is!!

Maar goed, waar ging het ook alweer over?

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 03:54 schreef Linkse_Boomknuffelaar het volgende:
Ondertussen in het land van vrijheid en democratie:

Нищета по-американски / American poverty

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 10:11 schreef Solstice1 het volgende:

[..]

Waarom d'r dan steeds op ingaan. Heb je het gevoel dat je d'r ook maar iets mee bereikt?

quote:

Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO)

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:05 schreef theunderdog het volgende:
Toch wel erg als je je beseft dat de alternatieven voor Putin nog veel erger zijn...

Dat land heeft snel een reconstructie nodig..

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:05 schreef theunderdog het volgende:
Toch wel erg als je je beseft dat de alternatieven voor Putin nog veel erger zijn...

Dat land heeft snel een reconstructie nodig..

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:13 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

Gaat niet gebeuren, zo'n groot land blijft enkel bijeen met een keiharde dictatuur.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:15 schreef Tukker87 het volgende:

[..]

Tijd voor een westerse interventie!

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:15 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

[..]

Misschien moeten we ook concluderen dat "zelfbeschikkingsrecht" niet overal kan gelden.

Denk dat het beter is als een buitenlandse macht in landen als Rusland heersen. Er moet daar een serieuze culturele omslag plaatsvinden.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:18 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

Dat zijn de kosten totaal niet waard. Landen bezetten is zelden een duurzame oplossing.

Bovendien is Rusland al lang op z'n teruggang. De economische opleving verandert daar weinig aan.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:18 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

Dat zijn de kosten totaal niet waard. Landen bezetten is zelden een duurzame oplossing.

Bovendien is Rusland al lang op z'n teruggang. De economische opleving verandert daar weinig aan.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 08:05 schreef Happel het volgende:

[..]

Hoe komen de separatisten aan al dat wapentuig. Door wie worden ze gefinancierd?

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:22 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

[..]

De economie is niets waard als de kerk een erg belangrijke rol speelt, er ontzettend veel mensen op jonge leeftijd doodgaan door overmatig alcohol,drugs gebruik, de corruptie erg hoog is (bijna op zijn Afrikaans) enz.

Economie is dan echt een bijzaak.

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:28 schreef homme7 het volgende:

[..]

Ik denk ook dat Rusland op de weg terug al is.

De energieprijs daalt en het gebruik loopt terug, door allerlei factoren , en verder heeft Rusland geen industrie behalve geweren en LADA

Dat is ook de reden dat Poetin zo aggressief gaat worden alleen het ophitsen van het eigen volk kan hem redden

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:46 schreef meth1745 het volgende:

[..]

levensverwachting is tussen 2006 en 2012 met 3.82 jaar gestegen, de birth rate overschreed die van Duitsland in 2007, die van de VS in 2013. Alcoholgebruik werd verboden bij sportevenementen. Bier is sinds 2012 als alcohol ipv voedsel gereglementeerd...

[..]

[ afbeelding ]

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:49 schreef homme7 het volgende:
http://www.telegraaf.nl/b(...)aar_Oekraine___.html

goede zaak meer materieeel er naar toe

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:52 schreef homme7 het volgende:

[..]

[ afbeelding ]

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:22 schreef theunderdog het volgende:

[..]

De economie is niets waard als de kerk een erg belangrijke rol speelt, er ontzettend veel mensen op jonge leeftijd doodgaan door overmatig alcohol,drugs gebruik, de corruptie erg hoog is (bijna op zijn Afrikaans) enz.

Economie is dan echt een bijzaak.

quote:

wo 10 sep 2014, 09:52


Britse premier op de knie�n voor Schotten

LONDEN - De Britse premier David Cameron smeekt de Schotten zich komende week in een referendum niet af te scheiden van Groot-Brittanni�.
Met een brede opsomming van historische argumenten in een ingezonden brief onder de kop 'Onze unie is kostbaar, verscheur haar niet', vraagt hij de bevolking nee te stemmen in de volksraadpleging.

„Als individuen en als naties hebben we uitzonderlijke dingen gedaan. Dit is de speciale chemie van het Verenigd Koninkrijk. Als je Schotland, Engeland, Wales en Noord-Ierland samenvoegt dan verpletteren we samen de verwachtingen”, bepleit hij de instandhouding van de unie. Schotland gaat volgende week donderdag naar de stembussen voor het historische referendum. De brief van Cameron werd woensdag afgedrukt in de tabloid Daily Mail.

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 00:29 schreef SadPanda het volgende:

[..]

Gewoon bewijs duh, bewijs dat militairen daar naar toe worden gestuurd door het leger.

twitter:

Richardgalpin twitterde op woensdag 10-09-2014 om 12:11:32 Rebels in east #ukraine cancel planned prisoner exchange in #Donetsk cos they allege Ukrainian side failed 2 fulfil its side of deal reageer retweet

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 12:13 schreef meth1745 het volgende:

twitter:

Richardgalpin twitterde op woensdag 10-09-2014 om 12:11:32 Rebels in east #ukraine cancel planned prisoner exchange in #Donetsk cos they allege Ukrainian side failed 2 fulfil its side of deal reageer retweet

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 11:15 schreef Tukker87 het volgende:

[..]

Tijd voor een westerse interventie!

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 12:07 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

Een disfunctionerende economie leidt tot allerlei andere malaise en daarop bloeit het geloof in een verlossingsleer.

Een functionerende economie berust op samenwerking. In een autoritaire samenleving ontaard dat vaak in een afgedwongen samenwerking, waarin de ene mens de andere misbruikt.

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 12:09 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

Voor wat betreft de macht van een land is economie een van de belangrijkste zaken. Alles is verbonden met hoe rijk een land en zijn gemiddelde burger is. Het heeft invloed op alles.

Religie, sociale problemen en dergelijke spelen uiteraard een rol, maar zonder economische middelen kun je weinig bewerkstelligen als verenigd land.

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 12:09 schreef homme7 het volgende:
POoetin zou allang naar binnen gegaan zijn met een stel strelkovs

[..]

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 12:17 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

Dat ook, Poetin is van nature een misleidend figuur. Dat zien we werkelijk bij alles wat hij doet. Hij probeert altijd te misleiden want het werkt, hij kan ermee wegkomen en het Russische volk accepteert het op cynische/apathische wijze. Probleem is alleen dat als de leider zo sluw is, iedereen onder hem het ook wordt. Iedereen probeert degene boven hem en onder hem te misleiden om eigen voordelen te behouden.

Het gevolg is corruptie, een onbetrouwbare bureaucratie, oftewel een samenleving als Rusland.

twitter:

BradCabana twitterde op woensdag 10-09-2014 om 12:22:02 Poroshenko signs law allowing sanctions against #Russia, which could include ban on gas transit http://t.co/smBxmLftxX #cdnpoli #Ukraine reageer retweet

twitter:

BradCabana twitterde op woensdag 10-09-2014 om 12:31:18 REPORTS: #Poroshenko to introduce "Special Status" law in the #Ukraine Rada for #Donetsk and #Luhansk oblasts #cdnpoli #ceaseifre reageer retweet

twitter:

BradCabana twitterde op woensdag 10-09-2014 om 12:33:32 REPORTS: NAF troops have abandoned positions W of #Mariupol lifting siege of the city #Azov #Yalta #Yurevka #ChervonePole #cdnpoli #Ukraine reageer retweet

quote:

Op woensdag 10 september 2014 12:38 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

[..]

Was dat een serieus streven?

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Op woensdag 10 september 2014 12:38 schreef deelnemer het volgende:

[..]

Was dat een serieus streven?

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The Russia–NATO council was created in 2002, for handling security issues and joint projects. Cooperation between Russia and NATO now develops in several main sectors: fighting terrorism, military cooperation, cooperation on Afghanistan (including transportation by Russia of non-military ISAF freight, and fighting the local drug production), industrial cooperation, non-proliferation, and others.