quote:
Op donderdag 24 juli 2014 01:32 schreef BorusBulldog het volgende:[..]
Je moet soms een afweging maken, jij denkt dat alles zwart wit is en dat een beslissing voor iets meteen 1 specifiek iets betekent.
Als Oekraine zegt nee en de Rebellen zeggen ja maak je een afweging of de kans dat je het antwoord achterhaald opweegt tegen de kosten, jij denkt volgens mij dat satellietfotos elke vraag met 100% zekerheid zouden moeten kunnen beantwoorden.
Je hebt fotos van de basis waar de rebellen claimen de BUK veroverd te hebben, je kijkt of er een BUK op die fotos staat, en klaar.
In vergelijking met het gebied dat men moest bekijken om het aantal Russische troepen aan de grens te schatten lijkt me dat niet al te veel werk. Zeg dan gewoon: we zijn niet geinteresseerd als het geen bewijs tegen de russen oplevert.
Net hetzelfde met het niet afsluiten van het luchtruim: interesseert ons ook niet, want Oekraine iets verwijten is in Ruslands voordeel, dus willen we niet uitzoeken of men het luchtruim misschien openhield terwijl men wist dat het te gevaarlijk was.
Bij beroepspiloten vind je wel een aantal die zulke vragen stellen. Hier enkele quotes uit het topic op Pprune:
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Chronus
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: midlands uk
Posts: 117
If indeed this proves to be a shooting down of a civilian airliner by military or para military forces, then I am afraid the words "What Have We Learned" of the Aviation Crisis Management workshop held in Brussels, 22-23 May 2012 ring hollow. See below for further particulars:
http://www.eurocontrol.in(...)aught-us-sultana.pdfSurely the Balkan Wars had tought us something. Those of us who were around then remember the airspace closures over the area.
To allow civilian flights over a known area of escalating hostilities on the ground and in the air would be tantamount to criminal negligence. I expect soon airspace closures and restrictions will follow, but sadly it will be all too late for all those innocent lives lost in yet in another mans war.
quote:
afootsoldier
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: .
Age: 24
Posts: 12
Re:hindsight
Fireflybob, I think maybe your comment was removed, however -
re: hindsight - this has not come out of the blue. Far from it. Aircraft after aircraft has been shot down in Ukrainian airspace - the airlines decided it was business as usual despite those undisputed facts.
It's not a question of hindsight - there needs to be an inquiry into how commercial airliners have been allowed to continue to operate in an active war zone.
quote:
garp
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: this side of the hill
Posts: 122
Chilling post by TC Ukraine from just over a month ago....
Quote:
14th Jun 2014, 22:06 #6 (permalink) TC_Ukraine
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 41
Ukrainian officials should close whole airspace over eastern part. now is closes up to fl260. Russian terrorists can easily hit passenger a/c.
quote:
angels
FX Guru
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Greenwich
Age: 57
Posts: 850
Here's a clip of the Antonov 26 being shot down on July 14.
Live Leak
Anyone have any observations? Looks too high for the MANPADS we know they had, but I could easily be wrong. Also, again it looks like the plane was quite high (you can't see it initially, but there is flame on the way down).
Just thought I'd throw it into the mix since this is corroborated footage.
quote:
west lakes
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 57
Posts: 995
Re closure of airspace
Who controls that airspace - The Ukraine so they are the only ones that could close it!!
Airlines can be advised by their governments to avoid that airspace but no other body has the power to close it!
quote:
nomorecatering
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 737
Something many in the aviation community are asking is why the hell were airlines flight planning departments routing their aircraft any where near a hot war zone, especially where an aircraft has been shot down in the 72 hrs before. It has been widely reported and shown on video that high powered SAM's were being brought into the area, as well as armed combat jets.
I imagine the relatives of the victims of the aircraft will be asking this question, leading into a lawsuit of biblical proportions.
quote:
peakcrew
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 43
I lurk a great deal and don't often post, but in this case it seems that there has been a serious failure by the intelligence agencies. It seems there has been evidence on social media for several days that the separatists had got hold of BUK missile units. Yes, social media has failings (though it is regarded as important enough to slurp by alphabet agencies), but this needed investigating and the information passing to relevant bodies, such as decision-makers in civilian air transport agencies.
This could have been avoided, but, hey, the real risk is uncharged mobile phones ...
http://www.pprune.org/rum(...)near-donetsk-14.html