NWS Nieuws & Achtergronden
Discussieer hier diepgaander over de actualiteiten.
En met een hele domme fout hebben de rebellen dat aan zich zelf te danken.quote:Op zaterdag 19 juli 2014 20:58 schreef meth1745 het volgende:
De AN-26 die maandag werd neergehaald bevond zich op een hoogte van 21,000 feet.
MANPADS kan je dan uitsluiten want die halen hoogstens 15,000 feet.
De oudste BUK raket (uit 1966) gaat tot 36,000 feet of 11 km, de eerste SA-11 uit 1980 haalt 14 km, de tweede uit 1984 haalt 22 km.
Ukraine, verantwoordelijk voor het instellen van restricties in z'n luchtruim, heeft daarna geen nieuwe Notam's uitgebracht, de no-fly limit bleef staan op 32,000 feet.
Ook de Amerikanen, die het neerschieten hadden geobserveerd, wisten dat het vanuit het bezet gebied in Oekraine kwam, wisten dat het een BUK systeem was, hebben geen waarschuwingen uitgegeven. Maar Amerikaanse maatschappijen vlogen al niet meer in het gebied.
De VS en Oekraine hebben alvast gekregen waar ze zo lang op zaten te wachten, een Europa dat nu wel bereid zal zijn Rusland zwaar aan te pakken.
CNN was trouwens behoorlijk balanced vanavond. Veel Oud VS dod dachten dat het bewijs van die telefoongesprekken nep was.
1/10 Van de rappers dankt zijn bestaan in Amerika aan de Nederlanders die zijn voorouders met een cruiseschip uit hun hongerige landen ophaalde om te werken op prachtige plantages.
"Oorlog is de overtreffende trap van concurrentie."
"Oorlog is de overtreffende trap van concurrentie."
quote:Ukraine's Donetsk emergencies ministry says found 196 bodies at crash site
(Reuters) - The local department of Ukraine's Emergencies Ministry in the eastern Donetsk region said on Sunday 196 bodies had been found at the site where the Malaysian airliner crashed.
"As of 7 a.m. on July 20, in the Shakhtarsky region of the crash site of the Boeing 777, 196 bodies were found," it said in a statement, adding that divers were involved in the search because the area included a reservoir.
quote:Rail workers say bodies from Ukraine crash site put in refrigerator trucks
(Reuters) - Railway workers said on Sunday bodies from the site where the Malaysian airliner crashed in eastern Ukraine had been loaded into refrigerator wagons at a station in the town of Torez, 15 km (nine miles) away.
quote:West toughens calls on Russia to cooperate over downed Malaysian plane
European powers seemed to swing behind Washington's belief Russia's separatist allies were to blame. That might speed new trade sanctions on Moscow, without waiting for definitive proof.
"He has one last chance to show he means to help," Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said after a telephone call to Putin.
Britain, which lost 10 citizens, said further sanctions were available for use against Russia. Prime Minister David Cameron, writing in The Sunday Times, said European countries should make their power count. "Yet we sometimes behave as if we need Russia more than Russia needs us."
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the most powerful figure in the EU, spoke to Putin on Saturday, urging his cooperation. Merkel's foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, told Bild am Sonntag newspaper: "Moscow may have a last chance now to show that it really is seriously interested in a solution."
"Now is the moment for everyone to stop and think to themselves what might happen if we don't stop the escalation."
Germany, reliant like other EU states on Russian energy and more engaged in Russian trade than the United States, has been reluctant to escalate a confrontation with Moscow that has revived memories of the Cold War. But with military action not seen as an option, economic leverage is a vital instrument.
quote:Ukrainian positions were fired on twice from Russia overnight: Ukraine
(Reuters) - Ukrainian positions were fired on twice from across border with Russia overnight, the Ukrainian armed forces said on Sunday.
On the Facebook site for what the government calls its "anti-terrorist operations" which details fighting in eastern Ukraine, the army said mortar attacks from the direction of Russia aimed at Ukrainian posts were recorded just after midnight and again at almost 2 a.m. local time.
quote:South Russias border checkpoint evacuated due to shelling in Ukraine again
Gukovo in Russias southern Rostov region were evacuated over the gunfire on adjacent Ukrainian territory on Sunday, chief press officer of the Southern customs service department Rayan Farukshin told Itar-Tass.
[ Bericht 16% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 20-07-2014 12:02:54 ]
The view from nowhere.
De rebellen
Donetsk People’s Republic guarantees security to experts working at the Boeing crash site
DONETSK, July 20 /ITAR-TASS/.
The government of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic will guarantee security to international experts who will work at the Boeing 777 crash site.
The Kiev authorities are stubborn in their desire to shift the blame for the Malaysian Boeing’s crash to the self-defense forces without having any proof except for cheap fakes, Andrei Purgin, the vice-premier of the Donetsk People’s Republic, wrote on the official website of the Donetsk People’s Republic.
“It has already become absolutely clear that the tragedy that claimed the lives of 300 people is the result of an inhumane plot, which could have been masterminded by various authors: the official authorities in Kiev; Ukraine’s hawkish generals or the leaders of the National Guard or the Right Sector movement which are acting at their own discretion. All of them have stained their hands with blood up to their elbows - the blood of civilians from Mariupol, Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Snezhnyi and Donetsk,” Andrei Purgin stressed.
“The purpose of their plane plot is to convince the global community that the people of Donbas are criminals who do not deserve any indulgences; to get a carte blanche to free use of the ‘scorched earth’ tactics in the Donbas region; make international public turn a blind eye on mass extermination of people who are fighting for their freedom against forces that are personifying Nazism of the 21st century,” the vice-premier of the Donetsk People’s Republic said.
“There can be no other explanation for Kiev’s unwillingness to conclude at least temporary ceasefire to ensure full-fledged investigation into the air crash in which the citizens of third countries died,” Purgin went on to say.
He emphasized that the plane tragedy was the cause for disruption of a regular round of ceasefire consultations in which OSCE representatives were supposed to take part.
Purgin said that the fear of being exposed could be the only explanation for Kiev’s increasing military operation and unwillingness to send international experts to the crash site. The Kiev regime is referring to the danger of military hostilities which it itself is building up.
“The government of the Donetsk People’s Republic has always been ready to conclude ceasefire agreements, which the Ukrainian army has never observed in full measure. Every minute lived without fire preserves civilian lives,” Purgin emphasized.
The government of the Donetsk People’s Republic is stating that it guarantees security to international experts who will work at the crash site and is calling on Kiev to conclude a ceasefire with the Donetsk People’s Republic and create conditions for experts to work at a place where the plane had crashed.
Donetsk People’s Republic guarantees security to experts working at the Boeing crash site
DONETSK, July 20 /ITAR-TASS/.
The government of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic will guarantee security to international experts who will work at the Boeing 777 crash site.
The Kiev authorities are stubborn in their desire to shift the blame for the Malaysian Boeing’s crash to the self-defense forces without having any proof except for cheap fakes, Andrei Purgin, the vice-premier of the Donetsk People’s Republic, wrote on the official website of the Donetsk People’s Republic.
“It has already become absolutely clear that the tragedy that claimed the lives of 300 people is the result of an inhumane plot, which could have been masterminded by various authors: the official authorities in Kiev; Ukraine’s hawkish generals or the leaders of the National Guard or the Right Sector movement which are acting at their own discretion. All of them have stained their hands with blood up to their elbows - the blood of civilians from Mariupol, Slavyansk, Kramatorsk, Snezhnyi and Donetsk,” Andrei Purgin stressed.
“The purpose of their plane plot is to convince the global community that the people of Donbas are criminals who do not deserve any indulgences; to get a carte blanche to free use of the ‘scorched earth’ tactics in the Donbas region; make international public turn a blind eye on mass extermination of people who are fighting for their freedom against forces that are personifying Nazism of the 21st century,” the vice-premier of the Donetsk People’s Republic said.
“There can be no other explanation for Kiev’s unwillingness to conclude at least temporary ceasefire to ensure full-fledged investigation into the air crash in which the citizens of third countries died,” Purgin went on to say.
He emphasized that the plane tragedy was the cause for disruption of a regular round of ceasefire consultations in which OSCE representatives were supposed to take part.
Purgin said that the fear of being exposed could be the only explanation for Kiev’s increasing military operation and unwillingness to send international experts to the crash site. The Kiev regime is referring to the danger of military hostilities which it itself is building up.
“The government of the Donetsk People’s Republic has always been ready to conclude ceasefire agreements, which the Ukrainian army has never observed in full measure. Every minute lived without fire preserves civilian lives,” Purgin emphasized.
The government of the Donetsk People’s Republic is stating that it guarantees security to international experts who will work at the crash site and is calling on Kiev to conclude a ceasefire with the Donetsk People’s Republic and create conditions for experts to work at a place where the plane had crashed.
The view from nowhere.
Pushilin Resigns from 'Speaker' Position in 'Donetsk People's Republic'
He speculated that because Pushilin had become mixed up in the contacts with Ukrainian oligarch Rinat Akhmetov as a "party of defeatists," along with Vostok Battalion leader Aleksarn Khodakovsky and others), he had to be removed. He said sources told him to expect the resignation of yet another highly-placed political figure in the DPR due to these contacts with Akhmetov.
"Pushilin's resignation means that Moscow is continuing work on improving the management of processes inside the military and political leadership of the DPR," he said laconically.
In a post dated 17 July "On the Political Prospects of Novorossiya," posted before the downing of the Malaysian plane, Boris Rozhin, editor of Golos Sevastopolya, who blogs under the name of "Colonel Cassad" predicted Pushilin's resignation, mentioning rumors that it was imminent.twitter:ChristopherJM twitterde op vrijdag 18-07-2014 om 19:18:26 No surprise. DNR chairman Denis Pushilin tenders resignation via letter from Moscow. He's been powerless for weeks. http://t.co/tduhN1v5z8 reageer retweet
No surprise. DNR chairman Denis Pushilin tenders resignation via letter from Moscow. He's been powerless for weeks. He speculated that because Pushilin had become mixed up in the contacts with Ukrainian oligarch Rinat Akhmetov as a "party of defeatists," along with Vostok Battalion leader Aleksarn Khodakovsky and others), he had to be removed. He said sources told him to expect the resignation of yet another highly-placed political figure in the DPR due to these contacts with Akhmetov.
"Pushilin's resignation means that Moscow is continuing work on improving the management of processes inside the military and political leadership of the DPR," he said laconically.
The view from nowhere.
twitter:shaunwalker7 twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 11:26:05 The train with MH17 bodies. Surreally deserted. Suspect there will be 600 journalists here in about ten minutes... http://t.co/wOmjgmJcuf reageer retweet
The train with MH17 bodies. Surreally deserted. Suspect there will be 600 journalists here in about ten minutes... 
twitter:PaulSonne twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 11:01:30 Bodies being loaded into these refrigerated rail cars in city of Torez. #MH17 http://t.co/nr97W4AfOo reageer retweet
Bodies being loaded into these refrigerated rail cars in city of Torez. 
twitter:myroslavapetsa twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 12:08:57 Train with #MH17 victims left #Torez station. Ukr journo Volodymyr Runets says they are going to #Ilovaysk near #Khartsyzk, #Donetsk region reageer retweet
Train with twitter:myroslavapetsa twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 12:12:00 #Ilovaysk is situated less than 50 kilometers to the West from #Torez. It usually takes a Ukr train an hour to make such a distance. #MH17 reageer retweet
The view from nowhere.
quote:
Weer afgetapt telefoongesprek, oordeel zelf.
quote:Separatists Recorded Trying To Get The Black Boxes To Moscow
[...]
Earlier today we posted a statement from Igor Bezler, a GRU (Russian foreign military intelligence) officer and separatist commander in Gorlovka. He actually admits that the audio from a previous SBU leak where he talks about shooting down the plane was in fact real, but claims it was doctored and he was talking about shooting down a different plane.
While we know that the separatists have shot down plenty of planes, this incident proves something very significant. The separatist leadership is so panicked over this incident that in Bezler's attempt to distance the separatists from the shooting down of MH17 he accidentally admitted that the separatists are actively coordinating with Russian military intelligence (GRU) and that the audio being leaked by the SBU contains genuine intercepted phone conversations.
United States Assessment of the Downing of Flight MH17 and its Aftermathtwitter:ZotPod twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 16:58:05 @MiddleEast_BRK DPR commander Bes admits that SBU's recordings are not fake... http://t.co/D3mCgHIpsC reageer retweet
@MiddleEast_BRK DPR commander Bes admits that SBU's recordings are not fake... [ Bericht 19% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 20-07-2014 19:08:31 ]
The view from nowhere.
http://online.wsj.com/art(...)officials-1405781508quote:Ukraine Knew of Separatists' Air-Defense Capabilities, Say Officials
Claims Raise Questions of Why Ukraine Failed to Close Airspace
Ukraine intelligence officials said they knew three days before the downing of Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -11.11% Flight 17 that rebels in the east of the country possessed sophisticated air-defense systems capable of felling a jetliner at altitudes in excess of where the Boeing BA +1.40% 777 was flying.
The disclosure deepens the mystery of why Ukrainian aviation officials failed to entirely close off the airspace in the Donetsk region, where the jet was flying went it was shot down, killing all 298 people on board.
Three Buk-M1 medium-range antiaircraft systems, also known as the SA-11 Gadfly under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization designation, were known to be in rebel hands as early as July 14, said Vitaly Nayda, the head of the counterintelligence division of Ukraine's security service. (Follow the latest updates on the Malaysia Airlines crash in Ukraine.)
Ukraine imposed a partial flight ban in the region on flights below 26,000 feet on July 1, and raised the ceiling of the exclusion area to 32,000 feet on July 14. The Malaysia Airlines plane was flying at 33,000 feet.
The altitude restrictions on commercial flights were raised after rebel separatists backed by Moscow on July 14 shot down a Ukrainian military Antonov An-26 transport plane with eight people on board over the skies of the Luhansk region. The aircraft was flying at 21,000 feet.
"I can't think of any reason why you would increase a restriction to 32,000 feet when the bad boys have just demonstrated a capability to go all the way," said a European aviation safety veteran. The airspace should have been closed, he said.
http://www.independent.co(...)arzones-9615967.htmlquote:There is mounting anger among the aviation community about the alleged failure of Western intelligence to identify the military hardware in the separatists’ hands, and to warn of the potential threat to civilians.
On the PPRuNe pilots’ forum, one contributor wrote: “If there is any incompetence it was in the failure of the intelligence world to adequately anticipate a rogue shoot down, and follow who had access to what, and to communicate this to the aviation authorities.”
Sinds drie dagen. Betekent dit dat deze systemen uit Rusland komen en ze dat hebben vastgesteld?quote:
Ukraine intelligence officials said they knew three days before the downing of Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -11.11% Flight 17 that rebels in the east of the country possessed sophisticated air-defense systems capable of felling a jetliner at altitudes in excess of where the Boeing BA +1.40% 777 was flying.
Ja, we kijken al lang schijnheilig de verkeerde kant op ivm economische belangen.quote:There is mounting anger among the aviation community about the alleged failure of Western intelligence to identify the military hardware in the separatists’ hands, and to warn of the potential threat to civilians.
[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 20-07-2014 14:02:48 ]
The view from nowhere.
twitter:RutheniaRus twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 12:55:57 19/07 #ATO: 25 attacks of UA troops by terrorists, 8 art strikes of Ukraine from Russia, 8 UA killed, 50 UA wounded.- NDSC #Ukraine reageer retweet
19/07 De plek waar de brokstukken van het vliegtuig liggen is ook gemarkeerd.twitter:RutheniaRus twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 12:43:24 20/07 ATO map http://t.co/mzTfejztInRT @rnbo_gov_ua reageer retweet
twitter:RutheniaRus twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 11:35:42 11.30 - #Ukraine territory and army in Donetsk region attacked with GRAD from territory of #RUSSIA. RT @rnbo_gov_ua reageer retweet
twitter:RutheniaRus twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 12:07:25 During the conflict in the East Ukraine, bandits abducted totally 842 hostages, 446 released. RT @rnbo_gov_ua reageer retweet
twitter:RutheniaRus twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 12:13:36 Terrorists in the East Ukraine still hold 396 captives: 3 journalists, 6 politicians, lawyer and judge, 321 civilians. RT@rnbo_gov_ua reageer retweet
twitter:RutheniaRus twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 12:38:59 4 tanks, 3 IFVs, 3 GRADs, 4 APCs, Ural tracks entered Ukraine fr Russia via vil Bilenke Lugansk reg. - NSDC Ukraine http://t.co/39wOQL4Mlr reageer retweet
twitter:MiddleEast_BRK twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 14:57:01 Entered from #Russia last night: 4 tanks, 3 IFV , 3 "Grad", 4 armored personnel carriers and several "Ural" trucks with ammunition - NSDC reageer retweet
Entered from twitter:MiddleEast_BRK twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 14:57:45 Seen and counted by local people in #Krasnodon last night reageer retweet
[ Bericht 52% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 20-07-2014 17:55:58 ]
The view from nowhere.
I am a Chinese college students, I have a loving father, but I can not help him, he needs to do heart bypass surgery, I can not help him, because the cost of 100,000 or so needed, please help me, lifelong You pray Thank you!
twitter:NoahSneider twitterde op zaterdag 19-07-2014 om 21:26:30 South of #mh17, battle for Saur-Mogila continues. Rebels control hillside. Shelling & air strikes. June 19, ~noon. http://t.co/QckjdLC3bf reageer retweet
South of 
twitter:MiddleEast_BRK twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 13:19:39 #BreakingNews 58 Ukrainian soldiers were killed and wounded over the last 24 hours, 8 of them KIA.#russiainvadesukraine reageer retweet
twitter:RutheniaRus twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 14:05:14 #Lugansk in #MH17 shadow: 300 buildings destroyed, 125K without power, 90K without water, civilians killed at streets http://t.co/LtuCJDJMR1 reageer retweet
twitter:Liveuamap twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 16:03:02 Ukrainian army entering Luhansk http://t.co/hxibgINFKl via @tombreadley #ukraine http://t.co/ErzrmaqxJn reageer retweet
Ukrainian army entering Luhansk 
twitter:lennutrajektoor twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 17:24:35 #ATO 51st motorized brigade liberated today #Rubizhne. No casualties, only 2 lightly wounded. #Ukraine reageer retweet
twitter:lennutrajektoor twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 17:32:18 Video: July 20, #ATO column that retook #Rubizhne is heading to #Severodonetsk, #Ukraine. https://t.co/cAHg18jvRw reageer retweet
The view from nowhere.
quote:'Moskou blijft wapens naar separatisten sturen'
Rusland blijft zware en andere wapens naar de pro-Russische separatisten in Oost-Oekrane sturen.
Dat zegt een woordvoerder van de Oekraense Veiligheidsraad, Andrij Lisenko, zondag tijdens een persconferentie naar aanleiding van de vliegramp van donderdag.
Volgens de woordvoerder doen de rebellen er alles aan om bewijs dat Russische raketten het toestel van Malaysia Airlines hebben neergeschoten, te verbergen.
Oekrane is ervan overtuigd dat het toestel door de rebellen uit de lucht is geschoten. Nederland houdt het vooralsnog op ''hoogstwaarschijnlijk neergeschoten'', zonder daar een dader bij te noemen.
Say what?
Al Jazeera verslag MH17
[ Bericht 24% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 20-07-2014 23:37:30 ]
[ Bericht 24% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 20-07-2014 23:37:30 ]
The view from nowhere.
The games Putin playstwitter:michaeldweiss twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 19:38:14 Why are we asking the man responsible for this atrocity to protect the integrity of finding out who was responsible? https://t.co/XrwtMalGZQ reageer retweet
Why are we asking the man responsible for this atrocity to protect the integrity of finding out who was responsible? [...]
Navalny, who led the enormous but ultimately defeated 2011 protest movement against the Kremlin, became a threat to Putin when ordinary Russians began identifying with his main complaint. It wasn't about Russia's aggressive foreign policy, its human rights abuses, or even its accelerating erosion of civil and political freedoms. It was that Navalny focused on the money. He even coined a now-universal epithet to describe Putin's ruling party United Russia: the "party of crooks and thieves." The U.S. State Department went further than this in one of its WikiLeaked cables. Relaying the comments of a Spanish counterterrorism magistrate, it described Russia as a "virtual mafia state." That makes Putin a virtual godfather with nukes.
[...]
So instead of issuing pro forma statements expressing "concern" or blaming Putin without expressly blaming Putin, why doesn't President Obama call up his Russian counterpart and, in the fashion to which all godfathers are accustomed, give him an ultimatum?
"You have 48-hours to withdraw your GRU-controlled militants in east Ukraine, the weaponry you gave them and your 12,000 troops from the Ukrainian border. Otherwise, the next press conference I give will include a list of bank accounts, holding companies and properties that you and your friends never wanted anyone inside or outside your country to know about."
Maybe that will change Putin's mind about what he can and can't get away with in Ukraine.
[ Bericht 55% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 21-07-2014 00:11:38 ]
The view from nowhere.
VICE News Dispatch 59 (deze is nog niet vertoont in dit topic)
Rond de grens tussen Donetsk en Rusland
1. Rebellen vernietigde een Oekrainse tank colonne (graphic)
2. Neergeschoten Oekrains transportvliegtuig (maandag 14 juli)
3. luchtaanval op Snizhne (een vergissing?)
Rond de grens tussen Donetsk en Rusland
1. Rebellen vernietigde een Oekrainse tank colonne (graphic)
2. Neergeschoten Oekrains transportvliegtuig (maandag 14 juli)
3. luchtaanval op Snizhne (een vergissing?)
SPOILEROm spoilers te kunnen lezen moet je zijn ingelogd. Je moet je daarvoor eerst gratis Registreren. Ook kun je spoilers niet lezen als je een ban hebt.The view from nowhere.
quote:Loud explosions heard in rebel stronghold Donetsk in east Ukraine- witness
Reuters) - Loud explosions were heard in the centre of the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk on Monday, a Reuters witness said.
twitter:Independent_ie twitterde op maandag 21-07-2014 om 09:09:36 #Breaking Pro-Russian rebel leader says Ukranian forces try to break into Donetsk city, fighting inside city limits, near railway station reageer retweet
[ Bericht 55% gewijzigd door Perrin op 21-07-2014 09:11:09 ]
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
opmerking van de dag: Laat Rusland door een hond leiden, dan krijg je meer liefde terug.
Als je de wereld wilt begrijpen, moet je denken zoals ik.
(Onnoman)
si vi pacem para bellum
himmelhoch jauchzend
(Onnoman)
si vi pacem para bellum
himmelhoch jauchzend
quote:'Oekraens leger valt Donetsk aan'
DONETSK (ANP) - Een rebellencommandant in het Oost-Oekraense Donetsk heeft maandag gezegd dat de stad wordt aangevallen door Oekraense regeringstroepen. Hij zei dat ook dichtbij het station wordt gevochten. Ooggetuigen hoorden luide explosies in het centrum van de stad.
Het Oekraense leger heeft maandag enkel laten weten dat ,,de militaire operaties in het oosten van het land in een actieve fase zijn''. Een legerwoordvoerder wilde niet reageren op de vraag of de regeringstroepen het rebellenbolwerk Donetsk proberen in te nemen, zoals rebellen zeiden.
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
twitter:obk twitterde op maandag 21-07-2014 om 09:31:17 'In het spoor van de dood doen de details pijn'. Alles wat ik heb gezien in 1100 woorden. https://t.co/gAx9dW6zG4 http://t.co/S6w6IJq0Zb reageer retweet
'In het spoor van de dood doen de details pijn'. Alles wat ik heb gezien in 1100 woorden.
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Poetin slaat terug:
quote:Poetin haalt uit naar regeringsleiders over beschuldigingen
De Russische president Vladimir Poetin heeft maandag fel uitgehaald naar de landen de Rusland ervan beschuldigen de rebellen in Oost-Oekrane te steunen en te bewapenen.
Hij zei dat niemand het recht heeft om deze tragedie te gebruiken om egostische, politieke doelstellingen te behalen. Volgens hem moet de vliegramp mensen verenigen en niet uit elkaar drijven.
Bij de tragedie met de MH17 uit Amsterdam, die naar alle waarschijnlijkheid werd neergehaald in het oosten van het land, vielen 298 doden, onder wie 193 Nederlanders.
Poetin wil dat iedereen zijn verantwoordelijk neemt en er alles aan doet om de veiligheid van internationale deskundigen op de rampplek te garanderen.
Hij drong andermaal aan op een internationaal onderzoek onder leiding van VN-luchtvaartorganisatie ICAO en zei dat Rusland 'alles doet wat het kan' om het conflict in Oekrane uit de militaire sfeer te halen. Hij wil aan de onderhandelingstafel plaatsnemen en het conflict op diplomatieke wijze oplossen.
Sancties
Zondag eisten Groot-Brittanni, Frankrijk en Duitsland eisen dat Poetin onmiddellijk zijn invloed zou aanwenden om reddingswerkers en onderzoekers toe te laten tot de locatie.
Doet Rusland dat niet, dan volgen dinsdag verdere sancties van de zijde van de Europese Unie. De drie grote EU-landen hadden daar zondag telefonisch contact over.
Dinsdag komen de ministers van Buitenlandse Zaken van de 28 lidstaten van de Europese Unie bijeen.
Vooral de Britse premier David Cameron haalde hard uit naar Poetin. In een artikel in de Britse krant The Sunday Times zei hij dat Europa te weinig tegen Rusland doet. ''Als president Poetin zijn omgang met Oekrane niet verandert, moeten Europa en het Westen onze omgang met Rusland veranderen'', aldus Cameron.
Toegang
Poetin heeft er maandag ook bij de separatisten in Oost-Oekrane op aangedrongen experts toegang te verlenen tot de rampplek waar vlucht MH17 neerkwam.
''Alles moet gedaan worden om de veiligheid van internationale experts te garanderen op de plaats van de tragedie'', verklaarde hij voor de Russische tv.
Het Russische staatshoofd herhaalde vervolgens zijn lezing dat het incident nooit had plaatsgevonden als de Oekraense regering geen grote operatie was begonnen tegen de rebellen in het oosten van Oekrane.
''Maar niemand mag en niemand heeft het recht om deze tragedie te gebruiken om zijn eigen egostische politieke doelen te bereiken. Dergelijke gebeurtenissen zouden mensen niet moeten verdelen maar juist verenigen.''
Say what?
twitter:rudybouma twitterde op maandag 21-07-2014 om 10:53:01 Am in Donetsk station, passengers being evacuated. Lots of separatist present, heavily armed http://t.co/4w0MszjYP6 reageer retweet
Am in Donetsk station, passengers being evacuated. Lots of separatist present, heavily armed 
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Het valt mij op dat Poetin zich hier nauwelijks tegen verdedigt noch excuseert of op een andere manier de moeite neemt hier aandacht aan te besteden. Daarbij valt het mij ook op dat een aantal regeringsleiders de schuldvraag overduidelijk geparkeerd hebben (Rutte, Merkel).
Wellicht dat de uiteindelijke feiten (onderzoek ter plaatse, zwarte dozen, onderzoek luchtverkeersleiding/radar) toch in Poetin's voordeel gaan spreken en dat de cirkel Merkel en Rutte daar al geruime tijd van op de hoogte is. Angela Merkel is immers vrij nauw betrokken bij Poetin en ze spreken dezelfde taal.
We wachten het af.
Wellicht dat de uiteindelijke feiten (onderzoek ter plaatse, zwarte dozen, onderzoek luchtverkeersleiding/radar) toch in Poetin's voordeel gaan spreken en dat de cirkel Merkel en Rutte daar al geruime tijd van op de hoogte is. Angela Merkel is immers vrij nauw betrokken bij Poetin en ze spreken dezelfde taal.
We wachten het af.
De dood van de passagiers in het vliegtuig en het leed van de nabestaande tekent een grote tragedie. Maar de schuldvraag is hier alleen belangrijk als iemand moedwillig het vliegtuig heeft neergeschoten. Dat lijkt niet het geval.quote:
Het valt mij op dat Poetin zich hier nauwelijks tegen verdedigt noch excuseert of op een andere manier de moeite neemt hier aandacht aan te besteden. Daarbij valt het mij ook op dat een aantal regeringsleiders de schuldvraag overduidelijk geparkeerd hebben (Rutte, Merkel).
Wellicht dat de uiteindelijke feiten (onderzoek ter plaatse, zwarte dozen, onderzoek luchtverkeersleiding/radar) toch in Poetin's voordeel gaan spreken en dat de cirkel Merkel en Rutte daar al geruime tijd van op de hoogte is. Angela Merkel is immers vrij nauw betrokken bij Poetin en ze spreken dezelfde taal.
We wachten het af.
Als het vliegtuig per ongeluk is neergeschoten, zijn de omstandigheden waarin dit soort ongelukken plaatsvinden van belang. En die vraag hangt samen met een aantal serieuze kwesties rond dit gewapende conflict. Hoe is het ontstaan en wie speelt daarin welke rol?
De kans is groot dat de rebellen per ongeluk dat vliegtuig hebben neergeschoten, vanuit het idee dat het een Oekrains militair vliegtuig is. Deze inschatting ligt in lijn met de feitelijke ontwikkeling van het conflict. Ik verwacht niet dat de zwarte doos daarin een nieuw feit aan het licht brengt.
De belangen van de betrokken spelers (Het Westen, Rusland, Oekrainie, bevolkingsgroepen, rebellen) is in dit conflict echter zo groot, dat ik veel politiek spin verwacht, zodat zelfs de simpelste dingen onduidelijk worden.
Neem het bovenstaande citaat. Is Rusland een geloofwaardige bemiddelaar, die bemiddelt in een intern Oekrains conflict tussen de rebellen en de Oekrainse regering? Of zijn de rebellen een proxy van Rusland (die ook Krim al geannexeerd heeft). Volgens mij is Rusland de partij dit het conflict aanstuurt en dus de hoofdschuldige. Niet alleen voor het passagiersvliegtuig, maar alle ellende daar.quote:
Hij drong andermaal aan op een internationaal onderzoek onder leiding van VN-luchtvaartorganisatie ICAO en zei dat Rusland 'alles doet wat het kan' om het conflict in Oekrane uit de militaire sfeer te halen. Hij wil aan de onderhandelingstafel plaatsnemen en het conflict op diplomatieke wijze oplossen.
[ Bericht 10% gewijzigd door deelnemer op 21-07-2014 12:04:51 ]
The view from nowhere.
twitter:nazaninemoshiri twitterde op maandag 21-07-2014 om 11:51:13 We are on roof top a few km from fighting plumes of smoke from airport behind rail station and road to airport. http://t.co/lzxA9T3oc3 reageer retweet
We are on roof top a few km from fighting plumes of smoke from airport behind rail station and road to airport. 
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
27 Russen gevangen genomen.quote:twitter:lennutrajektoor twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 17:32:18 Video: July 20, #ATO column that retook #Rubizhne is heading to #Severodonetsk, #Ukraine. https://t.co/cAHg18jvRw reageer retweet
twitter:MiddleEast_BRK twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 22:19:28 #BREAKINGNEWS UKRAINIAN TROOPS LIBERATED THE CITY OF #RUBEZHNOYE FROM RUSSIAN INVADERS TONIGHT.23 Russian fighters captured. ALL Russians! reageer retweet
twitter:StateOfUkraine twitterde op zondag 20-07-2014 om 23:26:37 #Ukraine's govt: we've captured 23 foreign Russian/Chechen fighters in Lysychansk #Luhansk & are retaking the city http://t.co/swb0gmd3Vn reageer retweet
The view from nowhere.
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