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EuromaidanPR twitterde op maandag 17-03-2014 om 12:50:33 Klytchko: Russian Ambassador was recalled from #Ukraine we urge to recall Ukraine's Ambassador from Russia. presser/live reageer retweet
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 13:28:10 #227
39333 Zelva
Fortunate observer of time
pi_137839803
quote:
1s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 09:30 schreef Igen het volgende:
Aan de andere kant lees ik nergens over grootschalige ongeregeldheden of fraude.
Hoe zou je dat moeten horen dan?

Poetin stopt trouwens (verrassing :o ) niet bij De Krim:

Moskou wil federale staat Oekraïne
pi_137839886
quote:
1s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 13:20 schreef speknek het volgende:

[..]

Van de mensen die gestemd hebben, of totaal van de Krimbewoners?
Uitgebrachte stemmen.
Hoeveel percent van de bevolking het vertegenwoordigd is een andere vraag, maar die vraag geldt evenzeer voor wat er in Kiev is gebeurd.
pi_137840018
quote:
0s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 13:28 schreef Zelva het volgende:

[..]

Hoe zou je dat moeten horen dan?

Gisteren werd de pers weinig in de weg gelegd.

Dacht even dat er toch fraude was opgemerkt: http://nos.nl/artikel/624427-stempas-verzameld-van-bejaarden.html ;)
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 13:38:15 #230
56633 JimmyJames
Unspeakable powers
pi_137840311
ianbremmer twitterde op maandag 17-03-2014 om 13:10:51 EU to impose "limited" sanctions on Russia, hoping Moscow won't mind much. #Ukraine reageer retweet
treffend samengevat.
Please Move The Deer Crossing Sign
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 13:50:39 #231
39333 Zelva
Fortunate observer of time
pi_137840795
quote:
0s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 13:32 schreef meth1745 het volgende:

[..]

Gisteren werd de pers weinig in de weg gelegd.
Waarom zie ik dan nergens interviewtjes met Krim-Tartaren bijvoorbeeld?
pi_137841033
Gisteren was een mooie dag voor de democratie, het volk heeft gesproken.
Doe afstand van je account en kom nooit meer terug.
pi_137841239
quote:
0s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 13:50 schreef Zelva het volgende:

[..]

Waarom zie ik dan nergens interviewtjes met Krim-Tartaren bijvoorbeeld?
In headlines op tv misschien niet, kiezen ze voor beelden met juichende menigte op de achtergrond, maar in de geschreven pers wel:
quote:
In contrast to Sevastopol there were no celebrations, balloons or music in Bakhchisarai, a town with a large Tatar population. Cars circled through the central streets beeping their horns and waving Russian flags. Many of the city's Tatar and Ukrainian population stayed at home watching television. Polling stations were half empty with only ethnic Russians turning out to vote.

"I did not vote because what I want is not an option on the ballot paper," said one Tatar woman speaking anonymously. "I want to be Ukrainian and have rights."

Bakhchisarai's Ukrainians are also anxious. "My parents are Ukrainian and I cannot betray them," said Ana, 53, adding in a hushed voice: "I am afraid to say to people that I am against the Russian occupation. About 80% will vote for Russia today and I hope that this will not hurt us who do not.

"We don't want corruption and bribery, Putin-style. It would be good to have European standards here. People don't understand that when they vote for Russia it is a step backwards not a step forwards."

In the village of Pionerskoe – where 98% of the 3,000 residents are Tatars –the polling station did not open after village leaders met this week and decided the vote should not go ahead.

"The referendum is illegal and that's why we don't want to take part," said Dzhalil Ibrahimov, a member of Mejlis, the Tatar council that represents Crimea's Muslim minority.

"The Crimean Tatar have no future with Russia. We want to live in a free democratic country, Ukraine. Our future is with Europe. If it will be war then we will fight; we will not go to the Russian side," said Ibrahimov. " This is a referendum under the guns of Russians, Cossacks and Chechens."

The polling station in the neighbouring Tatar village, Tekhteoljam, also did not open. The women there say they are scared about the security situation in coming days. "Now we are in isolation, we are worried that there will be violence or war," said Rimma Morozova, holding up a Ukrainian flag. "We don't see any value in this referendum, they have already decided for us. So why should we vote?"

Not all Tatars are opposed to Russia, and of those who are, many say they may leave or stay quiet rather than fight. But some are belligerent. "We will fight to the last drop of blood. We have only one motherland and nowhere to step back to. There is a cemetery and if we need to we will join our fathers there," said Emir Bakirov, 41. "Glory to Ukraine. Glory to God."
http://www.theguardian.co(...)union-russia-ukraine
Dat de tegenstanders thuisbleven is geen geheim. Maar de opkomst komt overeen met wat door hen verwacht werd.
En de 96.8%: zowel WSJ als de globe melden dat hun journalisten in de "dozens of transparent ballot boxes" niet één stem zagen zitten voor optie 2.

WSJ over de niet-stemmers:
quote:
Many Crimeans who disagreed with the referendum appeared to have stayed home. They included thousands of Crimean Tatars, an ethnic minority that accounts for about 12% of the peninsula's population and remains skeptical of Kremlin rule after facing deportation to Central Asia under Joseph Stalin. The community's leader has called the referendum unlawful.

Many ethnic Russians and Ukrainians who don't want Crimea to leave Ukraine have stayed silent. They cite pressure from friends and relatives as well as the tense atmosphere on the streets, where militias have been patrolling with Russian flags.

"I didn't go. I boycotted," said Denis Matsola, a 26-year-old left-wing activist from Simferopol, who says he considers himself Russian but would rather Crimea remain part of Ukraine.

Though Ukraine's economy is worse, it is still freer than Russia, said Mr. Matsola, who worries that as an activist, he will end up getting beaten up or jailed once Crimea is part of Russia. "I understand that it will be hard for me to live in a Russian reality," he says, noting that many of his activist friends have left for mainland Ukraine.

Mr. Matsola said among those he knows who also want Crimea to stay within Ukraine, he knows only one person who actually went to vote. Most have remained quiet. "People are afraid to talk," he said. "Even just within families there's this national pressure on people."
http://online.wsj.com/new(...)04579441563920333966

[ Bericht 18% gewijzigd door meth1745 op 17-03-2014 14:08:42 ]
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 14:06:22 #234
56633 JimmyJames
Unspeakable powers
pi_137841381
En daar hebben we de nietszeggende sancties: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26613567

Het is nog zwakker dan ik had verwacht :')
Please Move The Deer Crossing Sign
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 14:12:23 #235
121310 venomsnake
El Saltador
pi_137841633
Die sancties.. Daar zullen ze wakker van liggen in Moskou. :')
"Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve" Napoleon Hill
pi_137841777
Wat is dat toch altijd met die sancties, wat een zielig gedoe. Alsof die sancties ook maar iets zullen veranderen... :') :')
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 14:19:28 #237
361691 DeJori
Zorgt hier voor de veiligheid
pi_137841925
21 mensen :')
Ik ben DeJori en ik wil aangesproken worden als DeJori. Ik heb handboeien en ik heb pepperspray. Ik los dat hier op op mijn manier. Aight?
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 14:32:12 #238
271497 Aloulou
aka Alulu
pi_137842470
quote:
"We don't want corruption and bribery, Putin-style. It would be good to have European standards here. People don't understand that when they vote for Russia it is a step backwards not a step forwards."
Een vrouw die het snapt...maar als die Russen in de Krim bij Poetinstan willen gun ik ze dat zeker. Wens ze veel geluk en voorspoed toe in de Russische Federatie onder leiding van de Poetin-clan.
Oorlog is de verderzetting van de politiek maar met andere middelen - Clausewitz
pi_137842719
De mening van de Amerikaanse jeugd: interessante visie...
quote:
U.S. can't ignore what's happening in Ukraine

Ukraine has always been a divided country, filled with those who embrace democracy and Western values and those who lean more toward the values of Russia.

In recent years, the conflict has escalated, especially with the resignation of the previous democratic leader, Viktor Yushchenko, and subsequent election of Viktor Yanukovych. Yanukovych has proved himself to be of distinctly Russian sympathies.

The tension between Yanukovych and the people of Ukraine increased until a bloody revolution began. Despite what some may say, Ukraine is no longer teetering on the brink of civil war, but instead has fallen straight into the abyss of rebellion.

Protesters brandished Molotov cocktails and clubs, while police retaliated with guns and bombs. Fear and anger swirled in the country, and the mass hysteria led to even more riots. Viktor Yanukovych was deposed, and Oleksandr Turchynov was installed as the temporary president.

Yanukovych fled to Russia, fearing for his life, but has vowed to return and retake control of the country. Russia has invaded Ukraine in order to quell the revolution.

In order to stop the war, the Crimean parliament has decided to vote on whether or not they will be annexed by Russia. All contact with Ukraine and Russia is careful, walking-on-eggshells diplomacy.

The care with which Ukraine is being treated has not prevented offers of aid, though. The U.S. has offered Ukraine an aid package of $1 billion, while the European Union has offered $11 billion, to be spaced out over the course of a few years.

However, the packages are stacked with a strict set of restrictions. Ukraine must conform to these restrictions or be cheated out of the monetary assistance. These restrictions include a more democratic government and a step back from all affiliations with Russia.

These offers would make a difference in Ukraine, but the country desperately needs more. Before the financial crisis, foreign countries greedily snapped up its highly profitable grain and steel exports, but demand dropped off sharply. Its most popular export is currently cereal.

Ukraine is highly dependent on gas imports from Russia, which power about 40 percent of the nation.

Debts to Russia and other nations stand at 40 percent of the country’s GDP, which is sustainable for some nations, but not one as small as Ukraine. About $20 billion of these debts must be paid off in the next two years, so the aid packages offered by foreign nations will make only a small dent, especially if Ukraine can’t manage the added burden of the restrictions.

If President Barack Obama had been decisive and strong in addressing Russian President Vladimir Putin about his intentions to invade Ukraine, Putin may have thought twice about what kind of country he would be engaging with this move. Instead, he laughed and moved his pawn without a care in the world.

Since the crisis has happened, we must focus on what needs to be done in Ukraine. Proposed sanctions against Russia can wait while corruption and communism are eradicated in Ukraine.

Instead of offering the country limited aid when they sort out their rebellion, we should be helping them instate the government that we wanted for them in the first place. The parliament and supporters of democracy need resources to do this, and we can offer them. Once they have created a free government, hopefully with the freewill help of the U.S., then aid packages can realistically be offered.

First, the U.S. should engage in peaceful negotiations with Ukrainians supporting Russia as well as occupying Russian troops after the conclusion of the vote on the Russian annex. We should fully explain our stance on the aid package and the ideal of democracy that we would like to help the country achieve.

If this does not work, then the presence of American troops in Ukraine may be required as a last resort.

Either way, Ukraine should be assisted by the U.S. We may not have the funds to give as much as the EU can, but we can certainly help them turn their country around. Ukrainians, as well as all other people, deserve the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Quincy Balius is an eighth-grader at Lady of Lourdes and is a member of the Tribune's Teen Panel.
http://www.greatfallstrib(...)raine?nclick_check=1
pi_137842898
quote:
0s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 14:19 schreef DeJori het volgende:
21 mensen :')
Voorlopige beslissing, dit was een vergadering van de ministers van buitenlandse zaken(?), de staatsleiders zouden donderdag en vrijdag samenkomen.
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 14:47:39 #241
414990 Immerdebestebob
Frikandellenfetisjist
pi_137843186
quote:
0s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 13:26 schreef Igen het volgende:

[..]

Dat kan natuurlijk best, als mensen bijv. voor hun werk naar de stad moeten en dan gelijk daar stemmen. In Nederland komt het bijna niet voor omdat je normaal gesproken in je eigen gemeente moet stemmen, maar in gemeentes met veel vakantievierders is het bij ons ook wel eens meer dan 100%.
Schiermonnikoog zit vaak boven de 100% :D
pi_137843295
quote:
The break-up of the former Yugoslavia in the nineties brought numerous referendums. A precedent hopefully not followed in Crimea was the 1992 Bosnian independence referendum. The numbers record 99.7 per cent in favour of independence, the result was recognised by the USA and EEC and within two months Bosnia-Hercegovina was a member of the UN. But we know the tragedy that followed. The referendum had been boycotted by the Bosnian-Serbs, turnout was 63.4 per cent, the missing third approximating to the size of the Bosnian-Serb population. Was this a genuine popular reaction by Bosnian-Serb citizens, or were they intimidated by their leaders? We remember the Bosnian-Serbs as the aggressors and the perpetrators of war crimes. The referendum boycott cannot have helped their case, there is no record of how many genuinely opposed independence.
pi_137843989

Alles wat je moet weten als je tegen Rusland bent :) Hopelijk verander ik je mening hier mee
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 15:14:05 #244
306743 Opa2012
© 2010..2017
pi_137844375
quote:
3s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 12:29 schreef Re het volgende:
een volk wat zijn onafhankelijkheid wil opgeven... dat zie je niet vaak
Ik snap het wel; die mensen leven na 22 jaar vrijheid nog steeds in armoede en geloven nu beter af te zijn als onderdaan van de Sovjet-Unie.
Hans Spekman (PvdA): 'Nivelleren is een feest!' [38 11 9 zetels]
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 15:15:06 #245
306743 Opa2012
© 2010..2017
pi_137844416
quote:
10s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 12:40 schreef Godshand het volgende:

[..]

96,8% stemmen voor klinkt verdacht natuurlijk...
Dat niet, maar die 82,7% uiteraard wel.
Hans Spekman (PvdA): 'Nivelleren is een feest!' [38 11 9 zetels]
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 15:19:46 #246
56749 BlaZ
Torpitudo peius est quam mors.
pi_137844603
quote:
0s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 13:28 schreef Zelva het volgende:

[..]

Hoe zou je dat moeten horen dan?

Poetin stopt trouwens (verrassing :o ) niet bij De Krim:

Moskou wil federale staat Oekraïne
Het federaliseren van de Oerkaïne zou een hoop problemen oplossen.
Ceterum censeo Turciam delendam esse.
  maandag 17 maart 2014 @ 15:21:31 #247
104871 remlof
Europees federalist
pi_137844673
BNONews twitterde op maandag 17-03-2014 om 15:19:41 U.S. President Barack Obama to deliver statement on Ukraine at 10:45 a.m. ET, White House says reageer retweet
pi_137844716
quote:
2s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 15:21 schreef remlof het volgende:
BNONews twitterde op maandag 17-03-2014 om 15:19:41 U.S. President Barack Obama to deliver statement on Ukraine at 10:45 a.m. ET, White House says reageer retweet
De VS verspreid alleen maar leugens, kijk dit voor de echte waarheid.

pi_137844718
quote:
2s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 15:21 schreef remlof het volgende:
BNONews twitterde op maandag 17-03-2014 om 15:19:41 U.S. President Barack Obama to deliver statement on Ukraine at 10:45 a.m. ET, White House says reageer retweet
Hoe laat is dat onze tijd?
A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him, even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents and pictures. ...he will refuse to believe it.
pi_137844747
quote:
0s.gif Op maandag 17 maart 2014 15:22 schreef Ali_boo het volgende:

[..]

Hoe laat is dat onze tijd?
+6 uur dus 16:45
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