Oorlog in Libi� #101: Waar de rebellen langzaam vooruitgang boeken.

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Op zaterdag 2 juli 2011 12:26 schreef rakotto het volgende:

[..]

Dan krijg je de Libiers en Egyptenaren op je kop. Ze zijn massaal tegen interventie dat verder gaat dan nu.

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Op zaterdag 2 juli 2011 12:24 schreef Ulpianus het volgende:
Hij dreigt Europa aan te vallen?

Ik stem voor een kort-durende invasie, gelegitimeerd onder Artikel 51 van het VN handvest, om hem van zijn zetel te verwijderen.

Nu het legaal is kunnen we het maar beter doen ook. Gaat sneller dan wat er nu gebeurd.

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Op zaterdag 2 juli 2011 12:32 schreef Monidique het volgende:

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Lijkt me een geniaal plan. Wat kan er misgaan?

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Op zaterdag 2 juli 2011 12:36 schreef Ulpianus het volgende:

[..]

The world aint gonna change if you sit in your chair all goddamn day fearing for what could happen if you tried.

'tuurlijk kan het misgaan, maar op dit moment is het oorlog in dat land, sterven er mensen van de honger en aan beide kanten van het front. Ik durf met zekerheid te zeggen dat er een militaire operatie te verzinnen is die dit conflict veel sneller kan oplossen.

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Op zaterdag 2 juli 2011 12:39 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Dat dacht Rumsfeld ook.

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Op zaterdag 2 juli 2011 12:46 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Precies, deze keer is het anders, deze keer zal het een Glorieuze Oorlog zijn en deze keer worden we met bloemen ontvangen.

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Op zaterdag 2 juli 2011 16:48 schreef Adam1981 het volgende:

[..]

Ulpianus gelooft het "we-grijpen-in-om-humanitaire-redenen" verhaaltje

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Op zaterdag 2 juli 2011 12:12 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Nou ja, dat is een andere discussie. Maar nu heeft hij niets meer te verliezen en dan vind ik het nogal ziek eigenlijk om Khaddafi aan te sporen Europa aan te vallen. Doet me dus denken aan George W. Bush met z'n bring 'm on:

President George W. Bush Says "Bring 'em on"

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Op zaterdag 2 juli 2011 16:48 schreef Adam1981 het volgende:

[..]

Ulpianus gelooft het "we-grijpen-in-om-humanitaire-redenen" verhaaltje

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Op zaterdag 2 juli 2011 18:03 schreef waht het volgende:

[..]

Onzin, Ulpianus gelooft in het "we-vallen-iedereen-aan-die-ons-aanvalt" verhaaltje.

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'Rebellenleger valt Tripoli aan binnen nu en 48 uur'

Het rebellenleger dat in Libi� tegen het bewind van Muammar Kaddafi strijdt, zegt klaar te zijn om naar de hoofdstad Tripoli op te rukken. Volgens een woordvoerder maken de rebellen zich op om binnen 48 uur een offensief in te zetten vanuit de bergregio Nafusa, ten zuidwesten van Tripoli.

De strijders moesten zich vorige week nog terugtrekken bij Bir al-Ghanam, op zo'n 80 kilometer van Tripoli.

De rebellen krijgen echter sinds enkele dagen extra luchtsteun van NAVO-vliegtuigen. Ook droppen Franse vliegtuigen wapens die de rebellen kunnen gebruiken.

De Zuid-Afrikaanse president Jacob Zuma, een van de weinigen die onlangs direct contact had met Kaddafi, is in Rusland aangekomen voor overleg over de oorlog in Libi�. Zuma spreekt met deelnemers van de internationale contactgroep Libi�, een overlegorgaan over het conflict. Het precieze onderwerp van de besprekingen is onbekend.

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Op zondag 3 juli 2011 14:17 schreef rakotto het volgende:
Of het wordt een grote overwinning, of een harde tegenslag.

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http://www.volkskrant.nl/(...)Libische-grond.dhtml

Kolonel Kaddafi mag na zijn eventuele aftreden op Libisch grondgebied blijven, zij het onder internationaal toezicht. Dat zegt Mustafa Abdel Jalil, een van de rebellenleiders, in een interview met persbureau Reuters.

Jalil, voorheen minister van Justitie onder Kaddafi, zei dat hij het voorstel een maand geleden bij de Verenigde Naties heeft voorgelegd, maar tot dusver nog geen reactie heeft ontvangen. De opstandelingen en de internationale coalitie die het tegen het bewind opneemt, willen dat Kaddafi opstapt voordat er over vrede gepraat kan worden.

Tripoli
Het rebellenleger dat in Libi� tegen het bewind van Moammar Kadhafi strijdt, zegt klaar te zijn om naar de hoofdstad Tripoli op te rukken. Volgens een woordvoerder maken de rebellen zich op om binnen 48 uur een offensief in te zetten vanuit de bergregio Nafusa, ten zuidwesten van Tripoli.

De strijders moesten zich vorige week nog terugtrekken bij Bir al-Ghanam, op zo'n 80 kilometer van Tripoli.

De rebellen krijgen echter sinds enkele dagen extra luchtsteun van NAVO-vliegtuigen. Ook droppen Franse vliegtuigen wapens die de rebellen kunnen gebruiken.

Zuma
De Zuid-Afrikaanse president Jacob Zuma, een van de weinigen die onlangs direct contact had met Kadhafi, is in Rusland aangekomen voor overleg over de oorlog in Libi�. Zuma spreekt met deelnemers van de internationale contactgroep Libi�, een overlegorgaan over het conflict. Het precieze onderwerp van de besprekingen is onbekend.

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Rebellen Libi� verwerpen vredesplan Afrikaanse Unie

De opstandelingen in Libi� hebben een vredesplan van de Afrikaanse Unie voor hun land verworpen. Ze menen dat de Libische leider Muammar Kaddafi door het voorstel aan de macht blijft en dat is voor hen onaanvaardbaar. Dat heeft een functionaris van de rebellen laten weten.

De AU, een samenwerkingsverband van 53 Afrikaanse landen, probeert op te treden als bemiddelaar in het conflict in Libi� en stuurt aan op democratische hervormingen. Maar over de toekomstige rol van Kaddafi heeft de AU, die vrijdag een top hield over de kwestie, weinig laten doorschemeren, waardoor de rebellen vrezen dat hij gewoon aan de macht mag blijven. Kaddafi zou niet mogen deelnemen aan vredesbesprekingen met de rebellen, maar hij wordt niet opgeroepen om af te treden.

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Op zondag 3 juli 2011 23:03 schreef Chooselife het volgende:
en de rebellen zijn sneller door hun manschappen en motivatie heen.

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Op zondag 3 juli 2011 23:03 schreef Chooselife het volgende:
Ik voorzie vrij snel Franse en Britse "boots on the ground". Kan niet anders.

Dit is een impasse. Een patstelling. En het wordt op deze manier te duur, en de rebellen zijn sneller door hun manschappen en motivatie heen.

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Op zondag 3 juli 2011 16:15 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

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Op zondag 3 juli 2011 23:38 schreef Aloulou het volgende:

[..]

Je overdrijft, de rebellen zijn op en top gemotiveerd. En miljoenen Libiers met hen.
Ze kennen "de kolonel" wel na 42 jaar. Bij hem is het doorvechten of de dood, en de rebellen kiezen voor het eerste. Zo nodig tot de dood erop volgt.

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Regering Gaddafi had al diverse gesprekken met rebellen

De Libische regering heeft meerdere ontmoetingen gehad met vertegenwoordigers van de oppositie. In hoofdsteden van diverse landen is gesproken over een vredesakkoord. Dit heeft de woordvoerder van Moammar Gaddafi’s regime Moussa Ibrahim verklaard.

In een per email verstuurde verklaring wordt medegedeeld dat ontmoetingen hebben plaatsgevonden in Itali�, Noorwegen en Egypte. Dit meldt persbureau Reuters.

De besprekingen zouden zijn bijgewoond door vertegenwoordigers van de regeringen van bovengenoemde landen. Ibrahim beweert dat de gesprekken nog steeds gaande zijn.

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Op maandag 4 juli 2011 14:37 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

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Op maandag 4 juli 2011 16:43 schreef sunny16947 het volgende:

[..]

Die is ook niet in zijn 1e leugen gestikt. Alles propaganda om het moraal van de FF te breken.

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Doorvechten mannen! Jullie zijn er bijna!

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Op maandag 4 juli 2011 17:24 schreef rakotto het volgende:
Binnen 24 uur horen zij Tripoli binnen te vallen.

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Op maandag 4 juli 2011 17:31 schreef Frikandelbroodje het volgende:
Nee, binnen 24 uur moet het offensief naar Tripoli starten er liggen nog een paar stadjes tussen. Toch?

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Op maandag 4 juli 2011 18:14 schreef svann het volgende:
Ik zie ze de laatste tijd langzaam maar gestaag voortgang maken.
Ze moesten zich vorige week zelfs even terug trekken.
Wat is er veranderd dat men denkt die grote sprong te kunnen maken en dan nog aangekondigd ook?

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Op maandag 4 juli 2011 20:28 schreef HiZ het volgende:
Ik heb nu in Istanbul trouwens iemand in huis die aan het begin van dit alles in Tripoli woonde en daar Engelse les gaf. Hij moest echt op stel en sprong vertrekken en heeft bijna al zijn spullen achtergelaten daar. Volgens hem was het een raar land om te wonen; aan de ene kant leek het alsof het best wel goed ging, maar voor hetzelfde geld verdween je achter in een auto om nooit meer teruggezien te worden. Praten over politiek was eigenlijk not done, omdat het te gevaarlijk werd geacht.

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Libya: Why is it taking so long?

Rebels holding military positions some 90km (60 miles) from the Libyan capital, Tripoli, have expressed frustration that Nato commanders are holding them back from attacking the approaches to the capital.

"For Nato, the right position is to expedite our move to Tripoli and freedom for us," said Ashour Abu Deir, a young rebel fighter.

"I think Nato is a little way behind because, when we reach Misrata, they say stop, when we reach Bir Ghanem, they say stop, when we reach Brega, they say stop.

"They can do more than this, instead of holding us back," said Mr Abu Deir.

The rebels holding a strategic pocket of territory in the western Nafusa Mountains, or Jebel Nafusa, are in a loose alliance with the opposition Transitional National Council (NTC) with headquarters in Benghazi, eastern Libya.

I reached their easternmost front-lines in the Jebel Nafusa by driving through high, winding roads that thread through rocky terrain.

Their front-line positions are typically mounds of earth, or simple trenches to protect them from incoming fire.

Local commanders say they liaise with Nato through a command centre in Benghazi.

Because Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's forces control most of the heavy weapons, the rebels count on Nato to destroy these before they can move forward more easily on the ground.

Col Gaddafi's heavy artillery - mainly Soviet-era Grad missiles with a range of 30-40km - can pin down a force armed mainly with small machine-guns, typically AK-47 Kalashnikovs.

"Nato doesn't want us to move forward," said a former computer engineer who gave his name only as Muhammad, for fear that his family in Tripoli could be targeted if his full name were known.

"They are afraid of a huge massacre that might happen in Tripoli, by Gaddafi forces because he's using civilians as a shield," he claimed.

Caution

Part of this frustration may be born of bluster. Some rebels, highly motivated to advance on Tripoli, do not like to admit the weaknesses of their position.

But others are more circumspect.
Libyan rebel commander Ali al-Hajj Cdr Ali al-Hajj and his men have fought fiercely against a better-armed force of Col Gaddafi's troops

"Sometimes Nato is right to be cautious," said Commander Ali al-Hajj, a wiry, energetic man in charge of the rebel front in Yefren, near the easternmost points of rebel control in the Jebel Nafusa.

Cdr Ali al-Hajj could not be accused of any reticence to fight.

I saw him return day after day to a highly dangerous, tenuously-held front line on the edge of the village of Kikla.

He and his men fought fiercely against a better-armed force of Col Gaddafi's troops. His enemies were dug in just a few kilometres away, across a bone-dry, dusty plateau in the crossroads settlement of al-Gwaleesh.

If al-Gwaleesh were controlled by the rebels, it would help open the way to the major town of Gharayan - and the main road from the south to Tripoli.

In just three days of battle for al-Gwaleesh, nine of Cdr Ali's men - who in another life were farmers, engineers and students - were killed, and dozens wounded.

Nato is sometimes cautious "when we are fighting on open ground", Cdr Ali said, because on the flat desert plains "we can be vulnerable".

"In the mountains, it is different", he continued. "We are at home here and can use our shorter-range machine-guns to full advantage."

Gaddafi stockpiles

But behind these rebel theories is an overwhelming reality.

The main reason they cannot advance is, obviously, because Col Gaddafi's forces are stopping them.

The anti-Gaddafi propaganda says he has emasculated Libya's national army.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote

The colonel has been building up his stocks for year - he has secret supplies all over the country”

Libyan man

"It's not a real army any more," said the computer-engineer-turned-rebel Muhammad. "It's just a glorified, bloated bodyguard force for Muammar Gaddafi and his family."

That may be true. But if so, it is a bodyguard force, nevertheless, that has been building up huge stockpiles of weapons and ammunition.

Last week, I visited an arms dump south of the mountain town of Zintan.

I reached it by driving for an hour along the route of an underground oil pipeline laid by the Italian company Agip.

The dump was a large complex of low warehouses squatting in the desert as far as the eye could see.

Nato had destroyed some of them; the rebels were picking over the rest to take away the best of the remaining ammunition.

"This is just huge," I said out loud to myself as I sat in a car overlooking the smouldering remains of the dump. "I've never seen anything like this."

My Libyan companion in the car, a man well-informed about military matters, smiled indulgently.

"Oh, there are plenty more dumps like this," he turned to me to explain. "The colonel has been building up his stocks for years. He has secret supplies all over the country."

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Op zondag 3 juli 2011 23:38 schreef Aloulou het volgende:

[..]

Je overdrijft, de rebellen zijn op en top gemotiveerd. En miljoenen Libiers met hen.
Ze kennen "de kolonel" wel na 42 jaar. Bij hem is het doorvechten of de dood, en de rebellen kiezen voor het eerste. Zo nodig tot de dood erop volgt.

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Op dinsdag 5 juli 2011 21:56 schreef Chooselife het volgende:

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Dat is niet mijn observatie. Dit is een uitputtingsslag aan het worden met de rebellen in de moeilijkste positie. Ongetraind, brak wapenarsenaal, tactisch dom, opportunistisch.

En spreek alsjeblieft voor jezelf zeg. Je doet alsof je ��n van hen bent.

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Op dinsdag 5 juli 2011 22:31 schreef rakotto het volgende:

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Als zij geen tactiek hadden, dan hadden zij niet zoveel vooruitgang geboekt.

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Op dinsdag 5 juli 2011 22:32 schreef Chooselife het volgende:

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We weten allemaal hoeveel terrein Napoleon en Generaal Paulus in Rusland hadden geboekt.

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Op dinsdag 5 juli 2011 22:33 schreef rakotto het volgende:

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En Hitler o.a.

Maar alsnog, het gaat om de eindstrijd. Dat kan iedereen zijn.

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Troepen Gaddafi doden elf rebellen bij Tripoli, Rode kruis bezorgd

De troepenmacht van Moammar Gaddafi heeft vandaag elf opstandelingen gedood. Dit gebeurde bij aanvallen in het westen van Libi�. Het Internationale Rode Kruis maakt zich grote zorgen over die strijd nabij Tripoli die steeds meer gezinnen uit hun huizen verjaagt.

Gaddafi probeert de druk op de rebellen op te voeren. De Libische leider probeert te voorkomen dat de antiregimestrijers, die zich ophouden in het Nafusa-gebergte ten zuidwesten van Tripoli, optrekken naar de Libische hoofdstad.

Volgens de opstandelingen begon de aanval gisteravond en hield deze aan tot vanmiddag. In Dafniya, dat in de buurt van Misrata ligt, werd zwaar gevochten. In de stad verloren zeven rebellen het leven en raakten 46 mensen gewond. Raketten en mortieren van Gaddafi op Kikla, ten zuidwesten van Tripoli, en op Zintan en Nalut kostten aan vier mensen het leven.

Het Rode Kruis meldt dat de voedsel- en medicijnenvoorziening in Libi� verslechtert. De regering van Gaddafi betaalt echter nog wel lonen en voedselsubsidie in de gebieden die het onder controle heeft. De dynamische frontlinie van de gevechten nabij Tripoli maakt het voor de hulporganisatie echter moeilijk hulp te verlenen aan mensen die hun huizen ontvluchten.

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Op dinsdag 5 juli 2011 21:56 schreef Chooselife het volgende:

[..]

Dat is niet mijn observatie. Dit is een uitputtingsslag aan het worden met de rebellen in de moeilijkste positie. Ongetraind, brak wapenarsenaal, tactisch dom, opportunistisch.

En spreek alsjeblieft voor jezelf zeg. Je doet alsof je ��n van hen bent.

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Libyan4life Jeel Ghathub
Anyone NOT in awe, inspired or humbled by the bravery, will, and determination of the Libyan people is not human. #Libya #Feb17

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Libische rebellen zijn van twee kanten offensieven begonnen

Libische rebellen zijn vannacht en vanochtend zowel ten westen als ten oosten van Tripoli offensieve acties begonnen in een poging om dichterbij de hoofdstad te komen.

Vanuit de bergen ten zuidwesten van Tripoli zijn honderden opstandelingen in Toyota pick-ups en zwaar geschut voor zover bekend met succes opgerukt in de richting van het dorp Al-Qawalish dat onder de controle is van troepen van de Libische leider Moammar Gaddafi. Het doel van het offensief is om uiteindelijk de strategisch gelegen stad Garyan op 80 kilometer ten zuiden van Tripoli te veroveren, meldt persbureau Reuters. In het luchtruim boven Tripoli zijn NAVO-gevechtsvliegtuigen gehoord, maar of deze hun acties afstemmen op de vorderingen van de rebellen is onbekend.

In Misrata, 200 kilometer ten oosten van Tripoli, zijn rebellen opgerukt tot aan 20 kilometer buiten de stad. Volgens een rebellenleider in gesprek met persbureau Reuters stuiten de opstandelingen inmiddels op hevige weerstand van Gaddafi’s troepen. Het zou gaan om de grootste terreinwinst in weken van patstelling bij de stad die sinds enkele weken in handen is van de opstandelingen. Hun vorderingen gaan echter gepaard met blootstelling aan vijandelijk vuur, aangezien er geen tijd is voor de strijders om zich in te graven, schrijft Reuters. Meerdere gewonden werden vanochtend aangevoerd in een veldhospitaal bij het plaatsje Dafniya.

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Op woensdag 6 juli 2011 10:42 schreef houda het volgende:
Nu.nl:

Libische rebellen vallen weg naar Tripoli aan

ZINTAN - Libische rebellen hebben woensdag een aanval geopend op een belangrijke weg naar de hoofdstad Tripoli.

Ze vielen posities aan van het regeringsleger in de regio Gualich, op slechts 50 kilometer van Tripoli, een bolwerk van de Libische leider Muammar Kaddafi.

De rebellen hadden hun actie zaterdag al aangekondigd. De aanval werd begeleid door vliegtuigen van de NAVO.

Kom op jongens!!!!

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Op woensdag 6 juli 2011 12:54 schreef remlof het volgende:

[..]

Laten we hopen dat dit het eindoffensief is

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1.35pm: Libyan rebels have taken control of the village of Al-Qawalish, south-east of Tripoli, after a six-hour battle, according to a Reuters reporter in the village.

Scores of rebel fighters poured into the village through an abandoned government checkpoint, firing their rifles into the air in celebration and shouting "Allahu Akbar!", or "God is greatest!".

There was evidence of a hurried withdrawal by forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi. Near the checkpoint there were collapsed tents, half-eaten bread as well as a van and an electricity transformer station which were both on fire, the reporter said

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Tripoli wil 72 opstandelingen aanklagen

Libische aanklagers willen 72 opstandelingen, die lid zijn van de Nationale Overgangsraad, in een speciale rechtbank aanklagen voor hoogverraad.

Dat liet de rechter die de aanklacht momenteel samenstelt, Khalifa Isa Khalifa, vandaag weten tegenover persbureau AP. De opstandelingen zullen bij verstek berecht worden.

De Nationale Overgangsraad was niet bereikbaar voor commentaar. Onder de aangeklaagde opstandelingen bevindt zich ook leider Mustafa Abdul-Jalil. De 72 Libi�rs worden onder andere aangeklaagd voor het onthullen van staatsgeheimen aan buitenlandse mogendheden, het met geweld proberen het regime omver te werpen en hulp bieden aan de interventie van de NAVO in Libi�.

Volgens rechter Khalifa zal de zaak tegen de opstandelingen overzien worden door drie rechters en zullen verschillende getuigen gehoord worden. Khalifa ging niet in op de strafeis, maar in Libi� staat op hoogverraad de doodstraf. Bij een veroordeling zal Libi� de hulp inroepen van Interpol om de opstandelingen op te sporen en uit te leveren.

Libische opstandelingen rukken op richting Tripoli

De Libische opstandelingen rukken momenteel op richting hoofdstad Tripoli. Vanmiddag namen zij het stadje Al-Qawalish in. Dit maakt deel uit van een offensief om de strategisch gelegen stad Garyan op 80 kilometer ten zuiden van Tripoli te veroveren.

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Tripoli: a stronghold by day, a battleground at night


The Libyan capital may seem peaceful in daylight, but when the sun sets rebels and Gaddafi's forces clash, locals say

In daylight there is the pretence of normality: people chatting in cafes, shops open for business, motorists on the move – if they're lucky enough to still have petrol. But at night, Tripoli takes on a more menacing aspect.

"There are drive-by shootings at night here," said one man in the Souk al-Juma district, an opposition stronghold. "People are shooting at the police every night."

Numerous witnesses tell the same story: that when night falls, out come the police checkpoints aimed at locking down restive districts, but so too do rebel militas opposed to Muammar Gaddafi. Under cover of darkness, it is said, they emerge from hiding to ambush his security forces. In some neighbourhoods the gun battles rage every night, but the bodies of those killed and all other traces are swiftly removed.

With security tight and little sign of a major uprising in Tripoli, these audacious guerrilla tactics appear to be the rebels' best hope of chipping away at the Libyan leader's defences.

In Souk al-Juma there have been reports of explosions, a raid on a police station and at least one public protest violently crushed. A rebel sympathiser, pointing to a street off the district's main road, said: "On one night a couple of weeks ago, four people were killed here."

Libyan government officials denied such attacks have taken place, and the movements of foreign journalists are strictly controlled, making it impossible to verify these claims.

However, anecdotal evidence suggests that there are now regular night-time clashes in the Libyan capital .

The raids have turned parts of Tripoli, a city with no shortage of privately owned firearms, into a no-go area after dark. The man, who said he has stocked up on diesel in readiness for "zero hour", added: "Normally wedding parties go on until 2am, but now they finish at 8pm. No one goes out after sunset. They all stay at home."

Some in his working-class suburb felt it was too dangerous to talk to journalists, employing euphemisms such as "I think you know what I mean." But one young man, sitting in a T-shirt beside a blaring stereo, made an obscene gesture and shouted openly: "Fuck Gaddafi!"

The size and strength of the armed insurgency is unknown. It seems highly unlikely they could raise enough men to topple Gaddafi without external support. Their main strategy appears to be a methodical sapping of the police state's morale.

A man using the name Niz, who claims to represent a Tripoli rebel network known as the Free Generation Movement, said via Skype: "There are armed operations pretty much every night, normally at checkpoints. There is regular gunfire every night. It's not an attempt to go all out. It's an attempt to intimidate the security apparatus and show the presence of an armed group."

Nato hopes that Tripoli would succumb to the Arab spring were swiftly thwarted, with dissidents killed, arrested or driven underground. Apart from occasional public demonstrations, opposition to Gaddafi in the capital remains covert and fragmented, especially since access to the internet and mobile text was blocked. Informants and secret police ensure that fear, suspicion and paranoia are thick in the air.

Niz, speaking English, said he was unwilling to meet in person for fear of arrest. It was therefore impossible to verify his identity, but his account resonates with other media reports.

He said the Free Generation Movement, which posts regularly on Facebook and YouTube, has few members but is in close contact with several similar groups. He insisted that "activity is increasing, fear is decreasing and security is becoming fragmented" in Tripoli, making the ultimate overthrow of Gaddafi inevitable.

"I believe there can be an uprising in the city," he said. "We are moving towards that. I don't believe a single action will bring down the regime, but the coming closer of rebels and the continued Nato campaign shows the noose is tightening. It's going to be a combination of things. The regime will fall."

The resilience of Gaddafi's stronghold over more than four months has already confounded many. Asked to predict when the end will come, Niz replied: "Six million Libyans are asking the same question every day. What I can tell you is that every day there is more and more activity in Tripoli. The pressure on Gaddafi increases as the circle closes. We're all doing our bit to play our part."

But the risks remain high. Plain-clothes police reportedly go from house to house looking for real or perceived rebels. Niz, whose group performs acts of civil disobedience, alleged that people had been kidnapped and tortured by electrocution in increasingly overcrowded prisons.

"I feel uncomfortable using the word 'arrested'; these guys are being kidnapped," he said. "People I know have been blindfolded in the back of trucks and have heard on the radio prison officials saying, 'Don't bring them here, we're full.' There are thousands of people unaccounted for. I've heard people have been tortured, mainly through electrocution and beatings. You also hear about the pulling of fingernails."

A pro-Gaddafi rally on Friday brought tens of thousands of people to Green Square in a formidable show of strength, but Niz estimates that three-quarters of Tripoli's 2 million residents are against the regime.

Moussa Ibrahim, spokesman for the Libyan government, dismissed reports of underground networks in Tripoli. "Dream on," he said. "David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy are so embarrassed that they have to make up lies."

quote:

The Guardian has another reporter expelled from Tripoli


Libyan regime has also recently expelled reporters from the Daily Telegraph, CNN and Reuters

The Guardian has been expelled from Tripoli for the second time in three weeks as the Libyan regime seeks tighter control over how the conflict is reported to the world.

On Wednesday, I was ordered to pack my bags and leave the country because officials objected to an article in which I interviewed critics of Muammar Gaddafi.

The government demanded that the Guardian publish an apology "to the Libyan people", which it had itself prepared. The paper refused.

Guardian journalist Xan Rice's spell in Tripoli ended similarly abruptly last month. Reporters from the Daily Telegraph, CNN and Reuters have also been expelled in recent days.

Foreign journalists in government-controlled Libya are obliged to stay at one hotel, the Rixos in Tripoli, and are not allowed to leave the grounds without a government "minder", causing frustration and strained relations. Their output is closely monitored by Libyan officials.

On Tuesday I walked out of the front gate unaccompanied, caught a taxi to a neighbourhood known for anti-Gaddafi dissent, interviewed some of its residents and reported my findings.

Within hours of the article appearing online, I was summoned to the media centre where an official held up a print-out of my article, the offending passages highlighted in yellow, and ripped it in half. He said: "Tomorrow you must leave Libya for ever! You can never come back, even when there is peace."

It was explained that there was no record of me having left the hotel on Tuesday morning, therefore I must have sat in my room and made up all the quotations. But I was given one last chance: I could remain in Tripoli if I handed over my interviewees or if the Guardian published a retraction that denied their existence. This is the absurd apology they demanded:

"Declaration of apology

To the Libyan people:

Regarding our article on the 6/7/2011 describing the situation in the Soug-Al-Jouma area of Tripoli, narrating stories of some residents opposing the Libyan system, and using obscene words against the person of (Muammar Gaddafi) who is the leader and symbol for all Libyans.

And where this report is contrary to truth and that these cases referred to do not exist.

Therefore please accept our apology,

The Guardian."

I took the car out of Libya instead. I was joined by a Daily Telegraph journalist who had committed the same offence. This means that, at least for now, no British or American newspaper reporters remain in Tripoli, although the BBC, ITV, Sky and other international media are still present.

quote:

Frankrijk wil onderhandelingen tussen Gaddafi en opstandelingen

Frankrijk vindt dat het tijd is dat de Libische opstandelingen gaan onderhandelen met het regime van Moammar Gaddafi. De zoon van Gaddafi zegt vandaag in een interview dat het regime daarover al gesprekken voert met de Fransen.

De Franse defensieminister Gerard Longuet zei gisteravond in een interview met tv-zender BFM dat zijn land beide partijen in het Libische conflict gevraagd heeft met elkaar het gesprek aan te gaan. Volgens Longuet heeft het voor de opstandelingen geen zin om op het vertrek van Gaddafi te wachten, hoewel hij benadrukte dat Frankrijk nog altijd wil dat de Libische dictator de macht afstaat.

Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, de zoon van de Libische leider, zegt vanochtend in een interview met de Algerijnse krant El Khabar dat het Libische regime al onderhandelingen voert met Frankrijk over een eventuele politieke oplossing voor de al maanden slepende strijd. Volgens Gaddafi heeft Frankrijk het regime beloofd bij een onderling akkoord de opstandelingen tot een staakt-het-vuren te zullen dwingen.

De Verenigde Staten lieten vannacht weten dat de druk op Gaddafi onverminderd hoog moet blijven. Het ministerie van Buitenlandse Zaken verklaarde dat alleen de Libische bevolking kan bepalen hoe de machtsoverdracht in Libi� eruit moet zien. De inhoudelijk verschillende verklaringen van Frankrijk en de VS laten zien dat het geduld van het NAVO-bondgenootschap met de missie in Libi� kleiner wordt. De coalitielanden proberen Gaddafi al maanden tevergeefs tot aftreden te dwingen.

quote:

Libyan Rebels Plan Attack Near Tripoli

Anti-Gaddafi rebels have told Sky News an assault is being planned on the strategic town of Gharyan in the western Nefusa mountains as a precursor to an all-out attack on Libya's capital.

The rebels say they want to close off supply routes from the south and hope to link up with rebel elements in the town of Zawiyha, scene of some of the worst attacks on civilians by pro-Gaddafi forces in the February uprising.

But in a rare organised trip to Libya's Nefusa mountain range, about 50 miles south of Tripoli, it is clear that the government and its militia are preparing to defend Gharyan.

Women's militia groups are being trained to use weapons and the whole area is being flooded with government-supplied guns.

In the court yard of a medical institute, a group of women practised gun drills in front of foreign media bussed in from Tripoli.

They told me they had volunteered to form the militia to defend their homes and their children.

"We will die for our country," a gun-totting woman hidden by dark glasses, a traditional scarf and gloves told me.

"We are not scared of the rebels. We will fight if we have to but we will also negotiate a solution to all this - but our leader (Gaddafi) must stay," she added.

The Nefusa mountain range has been home to the only consistent anti-Gaddafi uprising in the west of the country since February.

In recent weeks, rebels have slowly pushed out pro-Gaddafi forces from the mountains and they say they can launch an attack on Tripoli if they can take Gharyan.


^{- Women in Gharyan say they will fight off any rebel attack -}

But on our drive further west towards the rebel lines, it is clear the government has been stocking up local people with a huge array of weapons.

Our bus was lead towards the town of Asabiha by a convoy of police and trucks filled with men in military clothing.

For about two miles, men lined the road firing thousands of rounds into the sky to greet us. On rooftops, women and children waved and shouted pro-Gaddafi slogans as we passed by.

In a press conference, the local governor said everyone was now armed and ready to fight.

"We are prepared to die and we are not scared of the rebels," Hamooda Mokhtar al Salem said, admitting they did expect to be attacked at some point.


^{- Rebels have already moved into the city of Kikla, southwest of Tripoli -}

The governor claimed Nato planes regularly hit his town and that civilians were killed in raids over the past two days.

When asked if he could show the media what had happened he refused the request. A government minder said it was too dangerous for us to see.

Despite their claims, it is difficult to see how the rebels can advance further along the mountain range from their current position further west without major assistance from Nato.

Even then it is uncertain if the Gaddafi regime's support will simply fade away, which the rebels predict, or stand and fight.

What is certain right now is that Colonel Muammar Gaddafi has armed huge numbers of civilians in strategic towns overlooking Tripoli and he remains in charge.

quote:

In rebel-held Libya, men find new identities as warriors

The war against Moammar Kadafi has taken over a long-sleepy mountain region, turning shepherds into fierce fighters, pastures into battlegrounds. Many wonder whether they'll ever return to their old lives.



Reporting from Kikla, Libya— He is a soft-spoken 22-year-old with a massive Belgian machine gun.

"Allahu akbar!" Radwan Othman cries out as he opens fire in response to a barrage of rockets fired by Moammar Kadafi's troops less than two miles across the valley.

Afterward he goes silent, staring into space with glazed eyes. He doesn't talk much, and his friends at this front-line position at the far eastern edge of rebel-controlled territory in the Nafusa Mountains worry about him.

Until the uprising against Kadafi's 42-year rule began in February, Othman sold women's clothes at a shop in Tripoli and had never handled a gun in his life.

"The war changes you," said Mesbah Sassi, a 28-year-old fighter who was unemployed before the war began and is among the volunteer fighters here in Kikla. "It turns you from a nice person into an aggressive person. I was a civilian. Now I have a gun and shoot to kill, and for us it's getting too easy."

The drive to oust the longtime ruler has subsumed nearly every aspect of life in these long-sleepy mountains, a 100-mile-long rebel-controlled region of pasturelands, tiny farming villages and close-knit towns that has become the focal point of the NATO-backed effort to weaken and oust Kadafi.

War has turned shepherds into hardened volunteer fighters, bent the economy to fit battle needs, replaced long-planned weddings with somber funerals for young men.

And it has raised the question of how, or even whether, those taking part in a conflict that has lasted nearly five months and shows little sign of a quick resolution will be able to simply turn in their weapons and go back to civilian life.

Already there are signs of an emerging warrior caste, young men who have forged identities in war, and found self-respect in toting weapons and pushing people twice their age around.

The creation of such a generation can change not only the individuals but the trajectory of the country. In the most chaotic Third World examples, nations have been beset by roving groups of heavily armed men long after the conflict ends, while in other countries, such as Iran after its 1980s war with Iraq, the fighters have become today's leaders, now pursuing an assertive and some would say belligerent security policy.

Here in the mountains of Libya, young men alternate between giddiness and horror at their new selves.

"When they ran out of ammunition, we warned them to give up. But they didn't give up," Hadi Mohammad, a 22-year-old fighter, said with dismay, describing a recent battle against Kadafi's forces. "We killed so many of them."

One of the fighters confided to his friend Madgis Abouzakher that he was becoming too enamored with the daily rhythm of war, that he was feeling too much violence inside him, that he felt he was becoming a "monster" to others.

"Everybody is worried about the front and thinking about the front," said Abouzakher, the co-director of a cultural association in the town of Yafran. "They can't communicate with their wives or their children. It's an important issue. What happens after the war?"

Already, just as in eastern Libya, the fighters' unruliness and lack of discipline have contributed to a number of battlefield debacles. But unlike eastern Libya, the Nafusa Mountains are hemmed in by Kadafi's forces to the north, south and east. The risks are even higher for these poorly trained volunteers, who sometimes appear heedless of the danger.

"They want to do anything anytime," said Jumaa Ibrahim, spokesman for the Zintan-based rebel command. "It's difficult to stop."

Mohammad, the 22-year-old at the front lines of Kikla, said all aspects of his life had been taken over by war, and even during the three or four hours of fitful sleep he has each night, he's often startled awake by gunfire, rushing to grab his gun and hurry half-awake toward the front line.

"In this town, there's no celebratory gunfire," he said. "It's not allowed. Every bullet is to be used for Kadafi's men."

In areas where there is relative security, such as the towns of Jadu and Qala, the rebel administration has reestablished police forces in an attempt to bring some sense of normality. "The point of getting guns is to get rid of Kadafi," said Mohammad Abul Qassem, a 26-year-old former engineer and fighter. "After that we don't need guns. Hopefully, the law will prevail then."

For now, men with guns rule these rustic mountains. In Zintan and Nalut, pickups mounted with antiaircraft guns stream up and down roads largely devoid of people. Children who should be in school serve tea and water to young men at military positions.

But many of the women and children have been sent to Tunisia or to safer cities, to clear the men's minds of worry for their families as they head into battle.

"Because of this fighting and killing and shelling, a lot of the women go," said Mokhtar Fakhal, a quiet former schoolteacher who is considered one of the elders of Zintan. "They go out of town and live in caves. They go underground."

His son, Hisham, 25, was shot in the neck during a battle, a clean wound that didn't hit any major arteries or nerves. He's recovering at a clinic in neighboring Tunisia, once a medical tourism destination for Libyan plastic surgery and cancer patients and now serving as vast triage for the war-wounded flooding across the border.

"We chose this way and we will never go back," Fakhal said. "That is life."

A grim aesthetic has taken hold of the region. Pickups once used to haul produce to market are smeared with mud to make them blend in with the high desert landscape. Bulldozers and backhoes that once contributed to a small boom in new housing form dirt mounds at checkpoints. Unemployed cooks prepare aluminum trays, each with rice and beans and a clump of fatty mutton for fighters on the front.

Rebel commanders here predict that the war could be finished in three weeks. But the incremental nature of the rebels' battlefield advances suggests that such a timeframe could be wishful thinking; and the rebel administration itself appears to be preparing for one that could last months. They have built training bases for young recruits in Nalut, Jadu and Zintan and are preparing another in Kikla.

Recruits stream in from across Libya, including some from the rebel stronghold, Benghazi, bored by the lack of action on the front to the east.

Bundoq Assem Bundoq, 26, came from the northwestern coastal city of Zuwara. He arrived in the mountains after a perilous journey by boat to Tunisia, spending weeks settling his family abroad before heading back to Libya. He wore a red beret as he underwent three weeks of basic training in Jadu.

He speaks near-perfect American-tinged English, picked up from countless television shows, action movies and pop music recordings. He used to play guitar, an aspiring musician who loves Pink Floyd, My Dying Bride and traditional Arab folk music.

"That part of my life," he said, "is over for now."

quote:

Libya: Paris denies claims it is in direct talks with Muammar Gaddafi

The country's foreign ministry insists claims by Gaddafi's son are unfounded and that Libyan leader must go

France has denied claims that it has changed its policy towards the Libyan conflict and is negotiating directly with the regime of Muammar Gaddafi, but has called for political flexibility over the terms and timing of his departure.

The country's foreign ministry said on Monday that the Libyan leader must go and insisted there were no direct negotiations with him, as claimed by his son.

The comments followed an interview in which the French defence minister, G�rard Longuet, urged the rebels to talk to the government in Tripoli. "We have … asked them to speak to each other," he said on BFM TV on Sunday.

"The position of the TNC [rebel Transitional National Council] is very far from other positions. Now, there will be a need to sit around a table."

Asked if it was possible to hold talks if Gaddafi had not left office, Longuet replied: "He will be in another room in his palace with another title."

Representatives of the TNC said there had been no change and dismissed a claim by the leader's son, Saif al-Islam, that Libya was negotiating with France.

"The truth is that we are negotiating with France and not with the rebels," Saif al-Islam said in an interview with the Algerian newspaper al-Khabar. "Our envoy to [Nicolas] Sarkozy said that the French president was very clear and told him: 'We created the [rebel] council, and without our support, and money, and our weapons, the council would have never existed.' France said: 'When we reach an agreement with you [Tripoli], we will force the council to cease fire.'"

Gaddafi's chief of staff, Bashir Saleh, reportedly met French officials in Paris recently. But foreign ministry spokesman Bernard Valero said on Monday: "France supports a political solution, as it has always said. There are no direct negotiations between France and the Gaddafi regime, though we pass on messages together in consultation with the TNC."

Guma el-Gamaty, a London-based spokesman for the TNC, also dismissed the Libyan claims. "It's just rumours and speculation," he said. "These are recycled ideas. Saif is a loose cannon at the moment. He is desperate. No one should take his statements seriously."

Any shift by France would be significant since it and Britain are bearing the brunt of Nato's bombing campaign.

British officials said there was now a new emphasis on finding a political exit from the crisis, an issue that is being quietly explored by the UN special envoy for Libya, the Jordanian Abdel-Ilah al-Khatib, who held talks in Tripoli over the weekend about "managing a transition". The sequence of a ceasefire and Gaddafi's departure has yet to be worked out and has been complicated by the arrest warrant for crimes against humanity issued by the international criminal court.

"It's not a change of tack but it is about exploring what a political solution would look like," said one diplomat.

Nato's unity and determination over the Libyan crisis has been called into question by a recent Italian call for a suspension of attacks after civilian deaths caused by alliance errors.

In the background there is mounting concern and impatience in London and Paris that nearly four months of air strikes that have cost billions of dollars have failed to see a rebel victory or the removal of Gaddafi.

The US was quick to signal that it was not prepared to leave Gaddafi in place. "The Libyan people will be the ones to decide how this transition takes place, but we stand firm in our belief that Gaddafi cannot remain in power," the state department insisted in a statement.

International action on Libya intensifies this week with a meeting between the TNC and Nato and EU officials in Brussels and a new session of the international contact group in Istanbul on Friday.

quote:

Op maandag 11 juli 2011 20:55 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
Is het vreemd dat ik aan G en aanverwanten denk toen ik las over de explosie bij een Italiaanse marinebasis?

Misschien een beetje doorgeslagen gedachte, maar kon het niet laten een linkje te leggen tussen zijn bedreiging en deze explosie. Al kan het net zo goed een ongeluk zijn.

quote:

Op maandag 11 juli 2011 20:55 schreef Hans_van_Baalen het volgende:
Is het vreemd dat ik aan G en aanverwanten denk toen ik las over de explosie bij een Italiaanse marinebasis?

Misschien een beetje doorgeslagen gedachte, maar kon het niet laten een linkje te leggen tussen zijn bedreiging en deze explosie. Al kan het net zo goed een ongeluk zijn.

quote:

Gaddafi-gezanten tegen Frankrijk: Libische leider wil aftreden

De Franse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Alain Jupp� is verteld dat Moammar Gaddafi “bereid is om te vertrekken”. Parijs heeft contact gehad met gezanten van de Libische leider die dat beweren.

Jupp� zegt dat van onderhandelingen met het regime van Gaddfi geen sprake is. Hij zet de woorden van de gezanten tevens in perspectief:

“Iedereen heeft contact met iedereen in dit conflict. Het Libische regime stuurt haar boodschappers overal heen; naar Turkije, New York, Parijs. Wij ontvangen afgezanten die zeggen: ‘Gaddafi is bereid om af te treden, laten we dit bespreken’”.

Gisteren ontkende het Franse ministerie van Buitenlandse Zaken al dat Frankrijk onderhandelt met Gaddafi. Jupp� onderschrijft dat dus. Als lid van de NAVO-operatie vindt het land dat Gaddfi moet aftreden. De Libische premier Baghdadi al-Mahmoudi zegt vanochtend in een interview met de Franse ochtendkrant Le Figaro dat een dialoog, met de oppositie of NAVO-landen, zonder betrokkenheid van Gaddafi kunnen worden gevoerd.

“Hij is slechts de gids, niet de overheid. Met betrekking tot de onderhandelingen, zei hij dat hij klaar was om de beslissing van het Libische volk te respecteren. De bevolking kan kiezen voor de vorm van een regering, een republiek, een monarchie of het huidige systeem. Hij zou zich conformeren aan deze beslissing.” – Premier Al-Mahmoudi in Le Figaro.

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 juli 2011 10:48 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

quote:

‘Noord-Afrikaanse tak Al-Qaeda smokkelt wapens uit Libi�’

Islamitische militanten van de Noord-Afrikaanse tak van Al-Qaeda profiteren van de aanhoudende strijd in Libi�. Volgens de Italiaanse minister van Buitenlandse Zaken slagen zij er door de chaos in het land in wapens uit het land te smokkelen.

Minister Franco Frattini zei vanmiddag op een persconferentie in Algerije, een buurland van Libi�, dat militanten van Al-Qaeda in de Islamitische Maghreb profiteren van het voortgaande geweld tussen troepen van Moammar Gaddafi en de opstandelingen en de NAVO-landen. Hoewel er eerder berichten waren over wapensmokkel door Al-Qaeda in Libi�, is Frattini de eerste westerse minister die deze geruchten bevestigt.

Frattini’s Franse collega Alain Jupp� zei vanochtend dat hij via gezanten van Gaddafi heeft begrepen dat de Libische leider bereid is om af te treden. De Libische premier Baghdadi al-Mahmoudi beweerde vanochtend in de Franse krant Le Figaro dat Gaddafi klaar is om “de beslissing van het Libische volk te respecteren”.

Dit bericht wordt momenteel aangevuld.

quote:

Libyan rebels make gains against Gaddafi forces in western mountains

Weeks of fierce fighting sees troops consolidate positions less than 100 miles from the capital, Tripoli

A flattened lamp-post, two neat rows of bullets and a no-left-turn sign lying on the tarmac road mark the frontline in Libya's western mountains.

Nearby are seven young men, leaning against a battle-scarred building they say was once a guardhouse for Italian soldiers during the second world war. Another sits on a rock, gazing into the desert of no man's land in search of Muammar Gaddafi's forces, said to be little more than a mile away.

The advance in the Nafusa mountains has raised hopes of a significant breakthrough for rebels striving to reach Tripoli and topple Gaddafi. Whereas the battlefields in eastern Libya have reached a virtual stalemate, rebel soldiers have seized 25 miles of this arid, hot, rocky terrain in recent weeks, putting government troops on the defensive.

But it is a hard campaign, an attritional struggle unlikely to meet Nato's timetable for an end to the war, especially with a further slowdown expected for Ramadan next month. The rebels are forced to consolidate their incrementalgains before they can think about moving forward.

The young men guarding the frontline post at Qawalish said Gaddafi's troops tried to retake it two days ago and subject them to a nightly bombardment of Grad rockets, peaking from 11.30pm to 4am.

"We are not scared," said a 21-year-old, who gave his name as Ahmed, half-an-hour after another rocket had thudded into the earth nearby. "We are OK, we just take these things, we get used to it. It's the Gaddafi army who's afraid."

Sitting on a wooden crate of ammunition and wearing a Valencia football shirt, army trousers and trainers, Ahmed said he was risking his life for two reasons: "Democracy. Freedom."

Qawalish fell to the rebels a week ago as, mile by mile, they gradually push from west to east along the mountain ridge. On the road to the frontline the Guardian saw a series of ghost towns which were home to thousands of residents during peacetime. There were wrecked shop fronts and petrol stations, abandoned mosques, concrete buildings blackened by fire, cars blown upside down and tanks and rocket launchers apparently destroyed by Nato air strikes.

Government soldiers who were not killed or captured during these battles appeared to have fled, leaving a trail of abandoned uniforms, boots and weapons still visible in the shade of trees where they once camped. Along roads the rebels used to move in on Qawalish, government forces planted 240 anti-personnel mines and 72 anti-tank mines, say Human Rights Watch.

The road passes through checkpoints that consist of mounds of earth and improvised road blocks: a plastic bin, car seat, tyre, gas canister and a dining chair. At one a yellow fluorescent jacket was hoisted on a pole, arms outstretched like a scarecrow. At another, a painted sign said: "Welcome to Freedoom," which may or may not have been a misspelling. Revolutionary graffiti and the red, black and green colours of the rebels are everywhere.

The next major prize, about 30 miles away, is Gharyan, a heavily fortified city 60 miles south of Tripoli along a government-controlled road. A previous uprising in Gharyan was brutally crushed but it is believed that rebel sympathisers remain. Capturing it would sever a crucial supply route to the capital and could potentially break the will of Gaddafi's army.

Colonel Juma Ibrahim, of the military council in western Libya, said: "Gharyan is the capital of the western mountains. When we finish Gharyan, all the western mountains are under our control. There is no other way to Tripoli."

Asked if his men were capable of taking Tripoli, Ibrahim insisted: "It will be so easy, more than Gharyan. We would have a clear road to Tripoli. I have contact with people around Tripoli, in Zawiya, Zuwarah and Al 'Aziziyah, and they are waiting for us. When we get to Gharyan, we can open many frontlines."

He added: "There will be an uprising in Tripoli. When we are near, they will think they can move."

Speaking in Zintan, a town that spent two months under siege but where the streets now bustle with rebel ordnance, Ibrahim gave an upbeat assessment of when the capital would fall. "Less than one month, inshallah."

But just as in Benghazi and Misrata, this is an ersatz army of former doctors, engineers, students, taxi drivers and teachers, in need of training and weapons. They are highly dependent on hardware captured from Gaddafi's forces, some of which they repair or upgrade with the help of technical manuals they find on the internet.

Al-Fitouri Muftah, a member of the local military council in Kikla, one of the closest towns to the frontline, warned: "We don't have enough weapons and bullets to capture Gharyan. We don't have anything except what we capture from the Gaddafi forces."

He estimated that one in 10 of the rebels' rifles had been passed down by grandparents who fought Italians in the Nafusa mountains. "The old weapons work OK," he said. "They're better than nothing."The 60-year-old, previously a government soldier, called on Nato to do more. "Nato's performance is weak. Nato is necessary for us to take Gharyan. If we don't get that support, it will be very difficult."

As Muftah spoke, the rumble of Nato planes overhead indicated that Gaddafi's troops would leave their positions and run for cover, affording Kikla a respite from enemy fire. But shortly afterwards, when it appeared that Nato had left, the boom of another ordnance explosion could be heard from a nearby hill.

Muftah, treading on a dusty doormat that bore Gaddafi's face, said rockets still land on Kikla every day, including around 30 on Monday alone. "Gaddafi just wants to destroy the town," he said. "He wants to kill as many rebels as he can."

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 juli 2011 21:56 schreef Monidique het volgende:
http://atwar.blogs.nytime(...)-western-libya-pt-i/

Libische rebellen plunderen zogenaamd bevrijde stad.

quote:

HRW: rebellen Libi� plunderden ingenomen steden


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(Novum/AP) - TRIPOLI - De rebellen die strijden tegen het regime van de Libische leider Moammar Gadhafi hebben zich in sommige steden die zij op Gadhafi's troepen veroverd hebben schuldig gemaakt aan plundering. Dit heeft de mensenrechtenorganisatie Human Rights Watch (HRW) woensdag gezegd.

Zo werden huizen, winkels en ziekenhuizen geplunderd en werden in sommige plaatsen de huizen van mensen die als Gadhafi-aanhangers werden beschouwd in brand gestoken, aldus HRW.

De opstand tegen Gadhafi's regime brak in februari uit. De opstandelingen wisten al vrij snel het oosten van het land in handen te krijgen. Ze hebben in Benghazi een overgangsregering gevormd. Inmiddels zijn ook de kuststad Misrata en het Nafusa-gebergte en omgeving, ten zuidwesten van Tripoli, in handen van de oppositie.

quote:

Op dinsdag 12 juli 2011 21:56 schreef Monidique het volgende:
http://atwar.blogs.nytime(...)-western-libya-pt-i/

Libische rebellen plunderen zogenaamd bevrijde stad.

quote:

Al-Qaeda and the Libyan Rebellion
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Posted GMT 6-23-2011 17:9:26

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A new report from two French think tanks concludes that jihadists have played a predominant role in the eastern-Libyan rebellion against the rule of Moammar Qaddafi, and that “true democrats” represent only a minority in the rebellion. The report, furthermore, calls into question the justifications given for Western military intervention in Libya, arguing that they are largely based on media exaggerations and “outright disinformation.”

The sponsors of the report are the Paris-based International Center for Research and Study on Terrorism and Aide to Victims of Terrorism (CIRET-AVT) and the French Center for Research on Intelligence (CF2R). The organizations sent a six-member expert mission to Libya to evaluate the situation and consult with representatives on both sides of the conflict. From March 31 to April 6, the mission visited the Libyan capital of Tripoli and the region of Tripolitania; from April 19 to April 25, it visited the rebel capital of Benghazi and the surrounding Cyrenaica region in eastern Libya.

The report identifies four factions among the members of the eastern Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC). Apart from a minority of “true democrats,” the other three factions comprise partisans of a restoration of the monarchy that was overthrown by Qaddafi in 1969, Islamic extremists seeking the establishment of an Islamic state, and former fixtures of the Qaddafi regime who defected to the rebels for opportunistic or other reasons.

There is a clear overlap between the Islamists and the monarchists, inasmuch as the deposed King Idris I was himself the head of the Senussi brotherhood, which the authors describe as “an anti-Western Muslim sect that practices an austere and conservative form of Islam.” The monarchists are thus, more precisely, “monarchists-fundamentalists.”

The most prominent of the defectors, the president of the NTC, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, is likewise described by the authors as a “traditionalist” who is “supported by the Islamists.” The authors point out that Jalil played an important role in the “Bulgarian nurses affair,” so called for five Bulgarian nurses who, along with a Palestinian doctor, were charged with deliberately infecting hundreds of children with AIDS in a hospital in Benghazi. As chair of the Appeals Court in Tripoli, Jalil twice upheld the death penalty for the nurses. In 2007, the nurses and the Palestinian doctor were released by the Libyan government following negotiations in which French president Nicolas Sarkozy's then wife, Cecilia, played a highly publicized role.

The report describes members of the al-Qaeda-affiliated Libyan Islamic Fighting Group as the “main pillar of the armed insurrection.” “Thus the military coalition under NATO leadership is supporting a rebellion that includes Islamic terrorists,” the authors write. Alluding to the major role played by the Cyrenaica region in supplying recruits for al-Qaeda in Iraq, they add, “No one can deny that the Libyan rebels who are today supported by Washington were only yesterday jihadists killing American GIs in Iraq.”

The full composition of the NTC has not been made public. But, according to the authors, one avowed al-Qaeda recruiter, Abdul-Hakim al-Hasadi, is himself a member of the NTC. (On al-Hasadi, see my March 25 report here.) Al-Hasadi is described by the authors as the “leader of the Libyan rebels.” Although Western media reports commonly say that he is in charge of the defense of his home town of Darnah in eastern Libya, the CIRET-CF2R report suggests that in mid-April, al-Hasadi left Cyrenaica by boat in order to participate in the battle of Misrata. He is supposed to have taken arms and 25 “well-trained fighters” with him. Misrata is in western Libya, a mere 135 miles from Tripoli.

Regarding the effects of western military intervention in support of the rebels, the authors conclude:

Western intervention is in the process of creating more problems than it resolves. It is one thing to force Qaddafi to leave. It is another thing to spread chaos and destruction in Libya to this end and to prepare the ground for fundamentalist Islam. The current moves risk destabilizing all of North Africa, the Sahel, and the Middle East and favoring the emergence of a new regional base for radical Islam and terrorism.

What follows are some further translated highlights from the CIRET-CF2R report. The full report is available in French here.

On the Battle of Misrata:

Little by little, the city is starting to appear like a Libyan version of Sarajevo in the eyes of the “free” world. The rebels from Benghazi hope that a humanitarian crisis in Misrata will convince the Western coalition to deploy ground troops in order to save the population.

. . . During the course of April, the NGO Human Rights Watch published casualty figures concerning Misrata that reveal that, contrary to the claims made in the international media, Qaddafi loyalist forces have not massacred the residents of the town. During two months of hostilities, only 257 persons — including combatants — were killed. Among the 949 wounded, only 22 — or fewer than 3 percent — were women. If regime forces had deliberately targeted civilians, women would have represented around half of the victims.

It is thus now obvious that Western leaders — first and foremost, President Obama — have grossly exaggerated the humanitarian risk in order to justify their military action in Libya.

The real interest of Misrata lies elsewhere. . . . The control of this port, at only 220 kilometers from Tripoli, would make it an ideal base for launching a land offensive against Qaddafi.

On Benghazi and the Cyrenaica Region:

Benghazi is well-known as a hot-bed of religious extremism. The Cyrenaica region has a long Islamist tradition going back to the Senussi brotherhood. Religious fundamentalism is much more evident here than in the western part of the country. Women are completely veiled from head to foot. They cannot drive and their social life is reduced to a minimum. Bearded men predominate. They often have the black mark of piety on their foreheads [the “zebibah,” which is formed by repeated prostration during Muslim prayers].

It is a little-known fact that Benghazi has become over the last 15 years the epicenter of African migration to Europe. This traffic in human beings has been transformed into a veritable industry, generating billions of dollars. Parallel mafia structures have developed in the city, where the traffic is firmly implanted and employs thousands of people, while corrupting police and civil servants. It was only a year ago that the Libyan government, with the help of Italy, managed to bring this cancer under control.

Following the disappearance of its main source of revenue and the arrest of a number of its bosses, the local mafia took the lead in financing and supporting the Libyan rebellion. Numerous gangs and members of the city's criminal underworld are known to have conducted punitive expeditions against African migrant workers in Benghazi and the surrounding area. Since the start of the rebellion, several hundred migrant workers — Sudanese, Somalis, Ethiopians, and Eritreans — have been robbed and murdered by rebel militias. This fact is carefully hidden by the international media.

On African “Mercenaries” and Tuaregs:

One of the greatest successes [of Qaddafi's African policy] is his “alliance” with the Tuaregs [a traditionally nomadic population spread over the region of the Sahara], whom he actively financed and supported when their movement was repressed in Mali in the 1990s.

. . . In 2005, Qaddafi accorded an unlimited residency permit to all Nigerian and Malian Tuaregs on Libyan territory. Then, in 2006, he called on all the tribes of the Sahara region, including Tuareg tribes, to form a common entity to oppose terrorism and drug trafficking . . .

This is why hundreds of combatants came from Niger and Mali to help Qaddafi [after the outbreak of the rebellion]. In their view, they were indebted to Gaddafi and had an obligation to do so. . . .

Many things have been written about the “mercenaries” serving in the Libyan security forces, but few of them are accurate. . . .

In recent years, foreigners have . . . been recruited [into the Libyan army]. The phenomenon is entirely comparable to the phenomenon that one observes on all levels of Libyan economic life. There is a very large population of foreign workers in search of employment in the country. The majority of the recruits originally come from Mali, Chad, Niger, Congo, and Sudan. . . .

The information from rebel sources on supposed foreign intrusions [i.e. mercenaries] is vague and should be treated with caution. . . .

On the other hand, it is a proven fact — and the mission was able to confirm this itself — that Tuaregs from Niger came to Tripoli to offer their support to Qaddafi. They did so spontaneously and out of a sense of debt.

. . . It seems that Libyans of foreign origin and genuine volunteers coming from foreign countries are being deliberately confused [in the reports on “mercenaries”]. Whatever the actual number [of foreign fighters], they form only a small part of the Libyan forces.

On the role of the international media:

Up until the end of February, the situation in western Libyan cities was extremely tense and there were clashes — more so than in the east. But the situation was the subject of exaggeration and outright disinformation in the media. For example, a report that Libyan aircraft bombed Tripoli is completely inaccurate: No Libyan bomb fell on the capital, even though bloody clashes seem to have taken place in certain neighborhoods. . . .

The consequences of this disinformation are clear. The U.N. resolution [mandating intervention] was approved on the basis of such media reports. No investigative commission was sent to the country. It is no exaggeration to say that sensationalist reporting by al-Jazeera influenced the U.N.

On the insurrection in Benghazi:

As soon as the protests started, Islamists and criminals immediately took advantage of the situation in order to attack high-security prisons outside Benghazi where their comrades were being held. Following the liberation of their leaders, the rebellion attacked police stations and public buildings. The residents of the city woke up to see the corpses of policemen hanging from bridges.

Numerous atrocities were likewise committed against African workers, who have all been treated as “mercenaries.” African workers were expelled, murdered, imprisoned, and tortured.

On the insurrection in Zawiya (a town in western Libya):

During the three weeks [that the town was controlled by the rebels], all public buildings were pillaged and set on fire. . . . Everywhere, there was destruction and pillaging (of arms, money, archives). There was no trace of combat, which confirms the testimony of the police [who claim to have received orders not to intervene]. . . .

There were also atrocities committed (women who were raped, and some police officers who were killed), as well as civilian victims during these three weeks. . . . The victims were killed in the manner of the Algerian GIA [Armed Islamic Group]: throats cut, eyes gauged out, arms and legs cut off, sometimes the bodies were burned . . .

By John Rosenthal
National Review Online

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 11:33 schreef Zaibatsu01 het volgende:

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Zogenaamd? Sinds dag 1 doen ze dat al.

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 11:43 schreef houda het volgende:

En over de huizen van pro ghadaffi mensen in brand steken is natuurlijk onzinnig maar wel symbolisch voor al de burgers en freedomfighters die familie, kinderen en vrienden hebben verloren op een brute wijze door deze mensen..

Pro khadaffi's kunnen natuurlijk geen prinsessenbehandeling verwachten van de freedomfighters!!

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En ja dat ze dan eten pakken enz wat ze nodig hebben om de strijd naar Tripoli toe te kunnen volhouden daarin hebben ze mijn zegen!

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 12:11 schreef houda het volgende:
En inderdaad, mijn mening zal niks doen voor of tegen deze oorlog! Gelukkig die van jou ook niet!

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 12:10 schreef houda het volgende:

[..]

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 11:43 schreef houda het volgende:
Is toch logisch dat ze alle panden in bevrijde steden gaan onderzoeken??? Ze moeten toch kijken of daar gewonde mensen zijn of pro ghadaffi's die zich schuil houden??

En ja dat ze dan eten pakken enz wat ze nodig hebben om de strijd naar Tripoli toe te kunnen volhouden daarin hebben ze mijn zegen!

En over de huizen van pro ghadaffi mensen in brand steken is natuurlijk onzinnig maar wel symbolisch voor al de burgers en freedomfighters die familie, kinderen en vrienden hebben verloren op een brute wijze door deze mensen..

Pro khadaffi's kunnen natuurlijk geen prinsessenbehandeling verwachten van de freedomfighters!!

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 12:30 schreef Chooselife het volgende:

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Ik heb me wel vaker over jouw reacties verbaasd en beklaagd, maar dat je dit weet goed te praten is een nieuw dieptepunt.
En dan durf je dit uitschot ook nog eens FREEDOMfighters te noemen. Freedom moet iets als vrijheid betekenen! Ze doen hier niets anders dan mensen alle vrijheid ontnemen!

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 12:44 schreef houda het volgende:

plunderd al jaren hun bezittingen, plunderd al jaren het geld wat voor de bevolking is bedoeld...

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 12:57 schreef Machmoed het volgende:

Wat je ook van gadaffie vindt hij heeft het armste land ter wereld in een voorbeeld van heel afrika gemaakt.

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Benelux-landen erkennen gezag Libische rebellen

De Benelux-landen erkennen de Nationale Overgangsraad van de Libische rebellen als de voorlopige 'legitieme vertegenwoordiger van het Libische volk'. Dat heeft de Belgische minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Vanackere verklaard, zo meldt persbureau AFP.

Minister Rosenthal was vorige week nog in Afghanistan.


Minister Rosenthal is vandaag in Brussel om samen met zijn Benelux-collega's te praten met vertegenwoordigers van de Transtional Councel (Overgangsraad) van Libi�.

Ook de minister van Buitenlandse Zaken van Luxemburg bevestigde het nieuws. 'Dit is een gemeenschappelijk standpunt van de drie landen.'

Tegen erkenning
Den Haag was tot nog toe tegen erkenning van de raad. De erkenning geldt voor de duur van de 'transitie', de periode tot dictator Kadhafi van het toneel is verdwenen en er een 'vrij een democratisch Libi� tot stand is gekomen'.

Op het hoofdkwartier van de NAVO praten vertegenwoordigers van de Libische Overgangsraad, die gevestigd is in Benghazi, met de 28 NAVO-leden. Later vandaag staat ook nog een ontmoeting gepland met de voorzitter van de Europese Commissie, Barosso.

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 12:57 schreef Machmoed het volgende:

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Weet u ook dat er in Libya gratis gezondheidszorg was?
Wist U ook dat Gadaffia Libya van het armste land ter wereld naar het meest rijke land in Afrika heeft getransformeerd?
Weet U ook dat Gadaffi alle Al-Qaida UIT libya heeft geschopt?
Weet U ook dat Libya de meest moderne infrastructuur heeft van heel afrika aangelegd met de olie inkomsten.
Weet U ook dat gadaffi in een tent woont.
Weet U ook dat nagenoeg alle inkomsten uit de olie inkomsten direct doorstroomt naar de bevolking in tegenstelling tot alle andere olie producerende landen.

Wat je ook van gadaffie vindt hij heeft het armste land ter wereld in een voorbeeld van heel afrika gemaakt.

[ afbeelding ]

[ afbeelding ]

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Nederland erkent rebellenraad als vertegenwoordiger Libische volk

Nederland, Belgi� en Luxemburg erkennen de regeringsraad van de Libische opstandelingen in Benghazi als de legitieme vertegenwoordiger van de Libische bevolking. Dat maakte de Belgische minister van Buitenlandse Zaken vanochtend bekend in Brussel.

Een woordvoerder van het Nederlandse ministerie van Buitenlandse Zaken bevestigde tegenover NRC Handelsblad het besluit om de raad te erkennen “tot een vrij en democratisch Libi� tot standkomt”. De bekendmaking van de erkenning kwam vlak voordat de ministers van de Beneluxlanden vanmiddag een ontmoeting hadden met vertegenwoordigers van de Libische opstandelingen in Brussel.

De erkenning door Nederland is opmerkelijk omdat minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Rosenthal eerder nog kritisch was op andere EU-landen die de raad al wel hadden erkend. Rosenthal zei vorige maand nog dat de rebellenraad niet voldoende “representatief” is buiten het door de opstandelingen gecontroleerde gebied in Oost-Libi�, omdat de raad “geen banden” zou hebben met andere delen van het land.

Frankrijk was in maart het eerste EU-land dat de rebellenraad als legitieme vertegenwoordiger van de Libi�rs erkende. In de maanden daarna volgden onder meer Duitsland, Spanje, Itali�, Turkije en Polen de Fransen. De Verenigde Staten hebben de raad nog niet erkend, maar zien de rebellen wel als gesprekspartner.

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 13:07 schreef houda het volgende:

Nagenoeg alle inkomsten vanuit de olie gaan naar de bevolking?? En hoe komt Khadaffi dan aan al die biljarden overal? Kan je nagaan hoe mooi en rijk Libya echt kan zijn. En mooi is Libya echt niet hoor, ben je er weleens geweest? Die foto's die jij laat zien zijn ook echt bijna de enige mooie plaatjes die je kan schieten. En anders dan in Tripoli vind je er ook maar heel wienig. Overal ligt zand, viezigheid, geen infrastructuur, niks wordt bijgehouden, dus dat is echt onzin wat je schrijft.

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 13:17 schreef Machmoed het volgende:

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Libya heeft de hoogste levensstandaard van Afrika dat zegt toch wat.
http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/africa/ly.htm

De helft van de bevolking leeft dan ook in Tripoli.
De snelweg in Libya is ook een super snelweg voor afrika state of the art infrastructuur door het hele land.
Het is niet voor niets dat deze super snelweg niet gebuldozed is door gadafi aanhangers. it is 1 van de parade paardjes van het regime en een teken voor de eenheid van het land. Terwijl de zeer geweldadige en plunderende rebellen het land in 2 willen splitsen.

Gadaffi heeft geen biljarden dit is een fabeltje van de media.
Hoogstens een paar miljard dat allan is gestolen door de internationale gemeenschap. Dus nu moet je bij hun gaan zeuren voor je geld.
Een paar miljard is trouwens maar een fractie van de biljoenen die onze koningin heeft gestolen vergeet dat niet he. Onze koningin is 10000x zo erg als gadaffi.

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Op woensdag 13 juli 2011 13:21 schreef houda het volgende:

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De freedomfighters willen het land helemaal niet in tweeen splitsen, hoe kom je daarbij?
En alles wat jij niet gelooft is opeens een fabeltje van de media? Maar als de freedomfighters iets doen volgens de media is dat helemaal waar?!

Onze koningin vermoord toch geen mensen? En in Nederland hebben de mensen het goed hoor vergeleken met andere landen dus hoezo is de koningin slechter dan Khadaffi??

Als dat echt zo was zat jij nu in de gevangenis alleen al om het feit dat je dat typt op een forum!