MO Midden-Oosten
Bespreek hier de actuele situatie omtrent het Midden-Oosten.
Ik zou daar niet zo veel tijd voor hebben als ik met AA werd bestookt.quote:Op woensdag 23 februari 2011 02:00 schreef -jos- het volgende:
De demonstranten moeten natuurlijk wel een brede visie hebben.
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
Sorry maar in Egypte was het ook Moebarak weg in 1e instantie.quote:
In Egypte werd ook niet alleen het aftreden van Mubarak geeist maar van het hele regime.
Nu er nieuwe stromannen opduiken worden ze misschien wakker.
De situatie in Libie is totaal anders, niemand die precies weet hoe de verhoudingen liggen in dat land.
quote:
statement from #Libya Outreach Group w- recommendations for intl community http://t.co/Av1xQ3G
Hoe komen ze aan die cijfers?quote:The Gaddafi regime has declared war against the people of Libya, stating that it
would fight to the very last bullet. As of February 21, 2011, the International
Coalition Against War Criminals has reported 519 deaths, 3,980 wounded and at least
1,500 missing in Libya since the start of demonstrations a few days ago. The numbers
being reported by Libyans on the ground are much higher, with thousands more
injured.
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
schattingen?en verslagen van ziekenhuizenquote:Op woensdag 23 februari 2011 02:06 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:
[..]
[..]
Hoe komen ze aan die cijfers?
There is only one religion
Uit ziekenhuizen met contacten denk ik.quote:
[..]
[..]
Hoe komen ze aan die cijfers?
In Egypte hadden de 'revolutionisten' ook echt een verhaal, niet Mubarak moest weg maar het regime vanwege de corruptie, geheime martelingen, steekpenningen etc.quote:Op woensdag 23 februari 2011 02:05 schreef Piet_Piraat het volgende:
[..]
Sorry maar in Egypte was het ook Moebarak weg in 1e instantie.
Nu er nieuwe stromannen opduiken worden ze misschien wakker.
De situatie in Libie is totaal anders, niemand die precies weet hoe de verhoudingen liggen in dat land.
Uit Libie heb ik nog geen enkel breed gesteund verhaal met redenen dat Qaddafi of zijn regime moet opstappen gelezen, misschien dat jullie dat hebben?
Niemand weet inderdaad hoe de verhoudingen liggen, de Libiers zouden er goed aan doen hun verhalen te vertellen.
WEB / [HaxBall #64] Jos is God
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
.Live Blog - Libya Feb 22
Live Blog - Libya Feb 22
By Al Jazeera Staff in Africa
on February 22nd, 2011.
Alleged mercenaries deployed by Gaddafi in Tripoli, the Libyan capital.
As the uprising in Libya enters its ninth day, we keep you updated on the developing situation from our headquarters in Doha, Qatar.
Blog: Feb17 - Feb18 - Feb19 - Feb20 - Feb21
AJE Live Stream - Twitter Audio: Voices from Libya - Benghazi Protest Radio (Arabic)
(All times are local in Libya GMT+2)
February 22
11:53pm: Tripoli resident Khaleed urges Nato and others to send peacekeeping troops.
Right after his speech, mercenaries were sent into the street. There were gunshots in every direction you could hear automatic, semi-automatic, high-powered rifles. You cuold hear them, you could hear the different types and the different bursts of fire. It sounded like something out of Chechnya in all honesty.
11:40pm: Reuters reports Libyan troops deployed at Sabratha town, 65km west of Tripoli
11.35pm: Clashes reported in the Sarman district of Tripoli
van lifeblog AJE
Live Blog - Libya Feb 22
By Al Jazeera Staff in Africa
on February 22nd, 2011.
Alleged mercenaries deployed by Gaddafi in Tripoli, the Libyan capital.
As the uprising in Libya enters its ninth day, we keep you updated on the developing situation from our headquarters in Doha, Qatar.
Blog: Feb17 - Feb18 - Feb19 - Feb20 - Feb21
AJE Live Stream - Twitter Audio: Voices from Libya - Benghazi Protest Radio (Arabic)
(All times are local in Libya GMT+2)
February 22
11:53pm: Tripoli resident Khaleed urges Nato and others to send peacekeeping troops.
Right after his speech, mercenaries were sent into the street. There were gunshots in every direction you could hear automatic, semi-automatic, high-powered rifles. You cuold hear them, you could hear the different types and the different bursts of fire. It sounded like something out of Chechnya in all honesty.
11:40pm: Reuters reports Libyan troops deployed at Sabratha town, 65km west of Tripoli
11.35pm: Clashes reported in the Sarman district of Tripoli
van lifeblog AJE
There is only one religion
Goede vraag.quote:
[..]
[..]
Hoe komen ze aan die cijfers?
the International Coalition Against War Criminals
nog nooit van deze organisatie gehoord
vreemde naam is het, against war criminals
dit ziet er uit als een soort Israelische propaganda organisatie?
de cijfers van Human Rights Watch zijn veel lager...
WEB / [HaxBall #64] Jos is God
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
Libiers zijn het gewend om al ruim 40 jaar hun verhaal voor zich te houden.quote:
[..]
In Egypte hadden de 'revolutionisten' ook echt een verhaal, niet Mubarak moest weg maar het regime vanwege de corruptie, geheime martelingen, steekpenningen etc.
Uit Libie heb ik nog geen enkel breed gesteund verhaal met redenen dat Qaddafi of zijn regime moet opstappen gelezen, misschien dat jullie dat hebben?
Niemand weet inderdaad hoe de verhoudingen liggen, de Libiers zouden er goed aan doen hun verhalen te vertellen.
Dat verander je niet in een revolutie van een paar dagen.
Egyptenaren ook. Waarom hebben Libiers geen verhaal, of waarom lezen we geen verhalen van Libiers.quote:Op woensdag 23 februari 2011 02:18 schreef Piet_Piraat het volgende:
[..]
Libiers zijn het gewend om al ruim 40 jaar hun verhaal voor zich te houden.
Dat verander je niet in een revolutie van een paar dagen.
WEB / [HaxBall #64] Jos is God
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
11.27pm: Reports the Irish air corps is heading to Malta to help evacuate Irish citizens from Libya tomorrow.
11.25pm: Is Younis positioning himself to take over? He concludes:
From my knowledge of Gaddafi, he won't leave, he will stay to the end, but he will stay alone. Who will aid him? Everyone has abandoned him. The Eastern & Central Provinces have abandoned him. To Gaddafi I tell him: Please end your life by praying for the martyrs, ask for God's forgiveness and the people's.
To Libyan people, you are a brave people, stand courageously, Libya will become a strong country. What I know is that the Free Officers of Libya have stopped their support of Gaddafi, his Security Battalion remain. Stand courageously, people of Libya, and those in Tripoli and Zawya and all over the country.
11.20pm: Younis adds: "Gaddafi's speech was very clear to any one who has a brain. He is nervous, he is stubborn. He may commit suicide. Gaddafi won't leave. He may commit suicide or will be killed. I didn't wish for him to face such an end."
11.13pm: Former Gaddafi No.2, Abdul Fatah Younis being interviewed on Al Arabiya. Here's a rough translation of some of his comments, provided by @SultanAlQassemi:
The Libyan people have suffered too long. We have so much oil, the people could have lived as in a 5 star hotel.
Al Arabiya asks him: What happened?
There was a crowd of people outside my office, I was with my cousin. A bullet then went next to my right cheek, it hit my cousin who is in a very bad case now.
Gaddafi, that dirty man, wanted to say that I was killed by protesters so that my tribe, the Obeidat, will stand by him.
"You were a Minister of Interior but you only choose to speak now?" Younis: "I spoke to him 2 weeks before the revolution."
I told Gaddafi, we have too many unemployed youth. I want that dirty person who shot my cousin to face justice .
I am not a two-faced man. I worked with Gaddafi for 42 years, I was shocked at his speech today.
I wish Gaddafi had instead said a prayer for the fallen youth in his last days in office.
Our plan now it to support the youth in Tripoli so that it is liberated like Benghazi was.
I offer my condolences to the fallen martyrs (reads a statement of support for the youth revolution).
I begged Gaddafi not to send planes, I called him. Now of course we don't speak, I have joined the revolution.
Citizens collected weapons & brought them to me, we put them in a massive (airplane) hanger for safekeeping.
I gave orders to my men in Benghazi not to shoot at protesters, not one of my men shot at protesters, those who shot belong to the Security Battalions. I guarantee that none of my men shot at protesters.
11.09pm: Libyan state TV says "honourable citizens" continue to apprehend "vandals".
11.06pm: Al Jazeera's Rawya Rageh tweets that Libya's state TV broadcasts names of military officers joining pro-Gaddafi demonstrations, describing them as "free officers".
11.03pm: Libyans tell Al Jazeera the scariest part of Gaddafi's speech was when he spoke of not using force "yet" - given reports over the past few days of mercenaries, airstrikes and photos of burnt corpses and protesters hacked apart.
11.01pm: Al Jazeera's Sherine Tadros tells us eyewitnesses report police going through Tripoli and removing barricades put in place by residents to protect their homes from attack during the past few days. Residents reported to be panicking.
10.55pm: Libya's state TV urges "those who like to film with their cell phones" to email in footage of pro-Gaddafi demos
10.53pm: More on that shoe throwing... Al Jazeera brings you the reaction as provided by state TV, with enthusiastic crowds greeting Gaddafi's lengthy, rambling speech. Meanwhile, the crowds in the eastern city of Benghazi - site of the beginning of the uprising - give a somewhat different reaction, as evidenced by a webcam stream:
11.25pm: Is Younis positioning himself to take over? He concludes:
From my knowledge of Gaddafi, he won't leave, he will stay to the end, but he will stay alone. Who will aid him? Everyone has abandoned him. The Eastern & Central Provinces have abandoned him. To Gaddafi I tell him: Please end your life by praying for the martyrs, ask for God's forgiveness and the people's.
To Libyan people, you are a brave people, stand courageously, Libya will become a strong country. What I know is that the Free Officers of Libya have stopped their support of Gaddafi, his Security Battalion remain. Stand courageously, people of Libya, and those in Tripoli and Zawya and all over the country.
11.20pm: Younis adds: "Gaddafi's speech was very clear to any one who has a brain. He is nervous, he is stubborn. He may commit suicide. Gaddafi won't leave. He may commit suicide or will be killed. I didn't wish for him to face such an end."
11.13pm: Former Gaddafi No.2, Abdul Fatah Younis being interviewed on Al Arabiya. Here's a rough translation of some of his comments, provided by @SultanAlQassemi:
The Libyan people have suffered too long. We have so much oil, the people could have lived as in a 5 star hotel.
Al Arabiya asks him: What happened?
There was a crowd of people outside my office, I was with my cousin. A bullet then went next to my right cheek, it hit my cousin who is in a very bad case now.
Gaddafi, that dirty man, wanted to say that I was killed by protesters so that my tribe, the Obeidat, will stand by him.
"You were a Minister of Interior but you only choose to speak now?" Younis: "I spoke to him 2 weeks before the revolution."
I told Gaddafi, we have too many unemployed youth. I want that dirty person who shot my cousin to face justice .
I am not a two-faced man. I worked with Gaddafi for 42 years, I was shocked at his speech today.
I wish Gaddafi had instead said a prayer for the fallen youth in his last days in office.
Our plan now it to support the youth in Tripoli so that it is liberated like Benghazi was.
I offer my condolences to the fallen martyrs (reads a statement of support for the youth revolution).
I begged Gaddafi not to send planes, I called him. Now of course we don't speak, I have joined the revolution.
Citizens collected weapons & brought them to me, we put them in a massive (airplane) hanger for safekeeping.
I gave orders to my men in Benghazi not to shoot at protesters, not one of my men shot at protesters, those who shot belong to the Security Battalions. I guarantee that none of my men shot at protesters.
11.09pm: Libyan state TV says "honourable citizens" continue to apprehend "vandals".
11.06pm: Al Jazeera's Rawya Rageh tweets that Libya's state TV broadcasts names of military officers joining pro-Gaddafi demonstrations, describing them as "free officers".
11.03pm: Libyans tell Al Jazeera the scariest part of Gaddafi's speech was when he spoke of not using force "yet" - given reports over the past few days of mercenaries, airstrikes and photos of burnt corpses and protesters hacked apart.
11.01pm: Al Jazeera's Sherine Tadros tells us eyewitnesses report police going through Tripoli and removing barricades put in place by residents to protect their homes from attack during the past few days. Residents reported to be panicking.
10.55pm: Libya's state TV urges "those who like to film with their cell phones" to email in footage of pro-Gaddafi demos
10.53pm: More on that shoe throwing... Al Jazeera brings you the reaction as provided by state TV, with enthusiastic crowds greeting Gaddafi's lengthy, rambling speech. Meanwhile, the crowds in the eastern city of Benghazi - site of the beginning of the uprising - give a somewhat different reaction, as evidenced by a webcam stream:
There is only one religion
Het regime van Moebarak is niet te vergelijken met dat van Gadaffi, dat blijkt wel uit het verloop van deze opstand.quote:
[..]
Egyptenaren ook. Waarom hebben Libiers geen verhaal, of waarom lezen we geen verhalen van Libiers.
Klopt. Ik wil de regimes ook niet vergelijken. Ik probeer nu de gebeurtenissen te vergelijken en te verklaren waarom het in Libie anders lijkt te gaan dan in Egypte.quote:
[..]
Het regime van Moebarak is niet te vergelijken met dat van Gadaffi, dat blijkt wel uit het verloop van deze opstand.
WEB / [HaxBall #64] Jos is God
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
Heb je die hoogleraar anex rondleider bij Paauw en Witteman gehoord?quote:
In Egypte hadden de 'revolutionisten' ook echt een verhaal, niet Mubarak moest weg maar het regime vanwege de corruptie, geheime martelingen, steekpenningen etc.
Uit Libie heb ik nog geen enkel breed gesteund verhaal met redenen dat Qaddafi of zijn regime moet opstappen gelezen, misschien dat jullie dat hebben?
Niemand weet inderdaad hoe de verhoudingen liggen, de Libiers zouden er goed aan doen hun verhalen te vertellen.
Wat hij beschreef klonk toch wel als een politie-staat.
Veel controles op straat (van iedereen) en een sfeer waarbij je zelfs bij vrienden beter geen anti-regime commentaar kon hebben.
Brede steun voor oppositie is onder zulke omstandigheden natuurlijk niet mogelijk.
En dan nog die stammenstructuur he.
Moebarak bestond door de steun van "het westen"quote:
[..]
Klopt. Ik wil de regimes ook niet vergelijken. Ik probeer nu de gebeurtenissen te vergelijken en te verklaren waarom het in Libie anders lijkt te gaan dan in Egypte.
Gadaffi heeft totaal andere invalshoek en ligt niet wakker van wat gesputter uit die hoek.
Alles of niets speelt die.
Zo anders is het niet. De reacties van het regime, de Thugs (deze keer voornamelijk buitenlanders) de speeches. Alleen het geweld is veel extremer.quote:
[..]
Klopt. Ik wil de regimes ook niet vergelijken. Ik probeer nu de gebeurtenissen te vergelijken en te verklaren waarom het in Libie anders lijkt te gaan dan in Egypte.
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
trusten, ik ben ook zo wegquote:
ik houd het voor gezien vandaag , welterusten
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
Truste
Raafatology Raafat-
New blog post: http://tinyurl.com/49swd4a - Understanding #Gaddafis Historical Speech! #libya #feb17
Raafatology Raafat-
New blog post: http://tinyurl.com/49swd4a - Understanding #Gaddafis Historical Speech! #libya #feb17
~Cheer up, the worst is yet to come.~
Ik heb 2 verhalen gevonden met google:quote:
[..]
Heb je die hoogleraar anex rondleider bij Paauw en Witteman gehoord?
Wat hij beschreef klonk toch wel als een politie-staat.
Veel controles op straat (van iedereen) en een sfeer waarbij je zelfs bij vrienden beter geen anti-regime commentaar kon hebben.
Brede steun voor oppositie is onder zulke omstandigheden natuurlijk niet mogelijk.
En dan nog die stammenstructuur he.
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/libya-protests-2011-5274021
slecht verhaal, slechte redenen
http://www.euronews.net/2(...)ion-gaddafi-must-go/
Hoofdreden is dus dat het regime geld heeft gestolen, verder geen erg overtuigende onderbouwing.quote:The protests in Libya are particularly striking. Not only is dissent almost unheard of as in many other Arab nations but the countrys identity is firmly intertwined with its charismatic and unpredictable leader Muammar Gaddafi.
He claims Libya is run by the people via a network of committees. But many observers see a police state, with the colonel firmly in charge.
How widespread is opposition to Gaddafis rule? What do the protesters want?
Euronews spoke to a leading opposition figure in exile. Dr Hadi Shelluf is also a lawyer with the International Court of Justice.
Sami Fradi, euronews:
What is happening at the moment in Libya?
Dr Hadi Shelluf, in Paris:
There is a popular uprising spreading throughout Libya, especially in the east, west and south, its a big popular uprising. And in all the countrys regions there is a general rejection of Gaddafis regime and a popular demand for Gaddafi to step down.
euronews:
Are the demonstrations organised by anyone either within the country or from outside?
Dr Hadi Shelluf:
There is certainly no internal or external group driving this uprising. Its a popular uprising whose source is among Libyan youth and the people, whove discovered after 42 years that this regime is not only a dictatorship but also a regime which has squandered the countrys wealth. Some are demanding that those in charge of the regime be brought to justice for the crimes they have committed, and that money thats been stolen be returned.
euronews:
Is there a tribal conflict between those for and against (the regime) or is this a civilian rebellion?
Dr Hadi Shelluf:
There is no conflict between either tribes or clans. There is a popular uprising and a revolution, and not a rebellion in order to create a legal state and democratic institutions. We demand that a government of transition be formed as soon as the administration falls, and then for a commission to draw up a constitution, so that we move from a chaotic situation to a state with a rule of law and democratic institutions.
euronews:
How do you see the protests developing?
Dr Hadi Shelluf:
These protests are going to continue until the regime is toppled in Libya and all the accomplices of the Libyan regime are arrested. We will demand that they be judged according to the law. We ask the European Union and the United States to urge Gaddafi to go. We want a constitution and elections which will be supervised by the international community.
WEB / [HaxBall #64] Jos is God
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
