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quote:
The inhumane conditions of Bradley Manning's detention
BY GLENN GREENWALD
(updated below)

Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has never been convicted of that crime, nor of any other crime. Despite that, he has been detained at the U.S. Marine brig in Quantico, Virginia for five months -- and for two months before that in a military jail in Kuwait -- under conditions that constitute cruel and inhumane treatment and, by the standards of many nations, even torture. Interviews with several people directly familiar with the conditions of Manning's detention, ultimately including a Quantico brig official (Lt. Brian Villiard) who confirmed much of what they conveyed, establishes that the accused leaker is subjected to detention conditions likely to create long-term psychological injuries.

Since his arrest in May, Manning has been a model detainee, without any episodes of violence or disciplinary problems. He nonetheless was declared from the start to be a "Maximum Custody Detainee," the highest and most repressive level of military detention, which then became the basis for the series of inhumane measures imposed on him.

From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day -- for seven straight months and counting -- he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he's barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he's being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch). For the one hour per day when he is freed from this isolation, he is barred from accessing any news or current events programs. Lt. Villiard protested that the conditions are not "like jail movies where someone gets thrown into the hole," but confirmed that he is in solitary confinement, entirely alone in his cell except for the one hour per day he is taken out.

In sum, Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America's Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado: all without so much as having been convicted of anything. And as is true of many prisoners subjected to warped treatment of this sort, the brig's medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation.

Just by itself, the type of prolonged solitary confinement to which Manning has been subjected for many months is widely viewed around the world as highly injurious, inhumane, punitive, and arguably even a form of torture. In his widely praised March, 2009 New Yorker article -- entitled "Is Long-Term Solitary Confinement Torture?" -- the surgeon and journalist Atul Gawande assembled expert opinion and personal anecdotes to demonstrate that, as he put it, "all human beings experience isolation as torture." By itself, prolonged solitary confinement routinely destroys a person’s mind and drives them into insanity. A March, 2010 article in The Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law explains that "solitary confinement is recognized as difficult to withstand; indeed, psychological stressors such as isolation can be as clinically distressing as physical torture."

For that reason, many Western nations -- and even some non-Western nations notorious for human rights abuses -- refuse to employ prolonged solitary confinement except in the most extreme cases of prisoner violence. "It’s an awful thing, solitary," John McCain wrote of his experience in isolated confinement in Vietnam. “It crushes your spirit." As Gawande documented: "A U.S. military study of almost a hundred and fifty naval aviators returned from imprisonment in Vietnam . . . reported that they found social isolation to be as torturous and agonizing as any physical abuse they suffered." Gawande explained that America’s application of this form of torture to its own citizens is what spawned the torture regime which President Obama vowed to end:

This past year, both the Republican and the Democratic Presidential candidates came out firmly for banning torture and closing the facility in Guantánamo Bay, where hundreds of prisoners have been held in years-long isolation. Neither Barack Obama nor John McCain, however, addressed the question of whether prolonged solitary confinement is torture. . . .

This is the dark side of American exceptionalism. . . . Our willingness to discard these standards for American prisoners made it easy to discard the Geneva Conventions prohibiting similar treatment of foreign prisoners of war, to the detriment of America’s moral stature in the world. In much the same way that a previous generation of Americans countenanced legalized segregation, ours has countenanced legalized torture. And there is no clearer manifestation of this than our routine use of solitary confinement . . . .

It's one thing to impose such punitive, barbaric measures on convicts who have proven to be violent when around other prisoners; at the Supermax in Florence, inmates convicted of the most heinous crimes and who pose a threat to prison order and the safety of others are subjected to worse treatment than what Manning experiences. But it's another thing entirely to impose such conditions on individuals, like Manning, who have been convicted of nothing and have never demonstrated an iota of physical threat or disorder.

In 2006, a bipartisan National Commission on America's Prisons was created and it called for the elimination of prolonged solitary confinement. Its Report documented that conditions whereby "prisoners end up locked in their cells 23 hours a day, every day. . . is so severe that people end up completely isolated, living in what can only be described as torturous conditions." The Report documented numerous psychiatric studies of individuals held in prolonged isolation which demonstrate "a constellation of symptoms that includes overwhelming anxiety, confusion and hallucination, and sudden violent and self-destructive outbursts." The above-referenced article from the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law states: "Psychological effects can include anxiety, depression, anger, cognitive disturbances, perceptual distortions, obsessive thoughts, paranoia, and psychosis."

When one exacerbates the harms of prolonged isolation with the other deprivations to which Manning is being subjected, long-term psychiatric and even physical impairment is likely. Gawande documents that "EEG studies going back to the nineteen-sixties have shown diffuse slowing of brain waves in prisoners after a week or more of solitary confinement." Medical tests conducted in 1992 on Yugoslavian prisoners subjected to an average of six months of isolation -- roughly the amount to which Manning has now been subjected -- "revealed brain abnormalities months afterward; the most severe were found in prisoners who had endured either head trauma sufficient to render them unconscious or, yes, solitary confinement. Without sustained social interaction, the human brain may become as impaired as one that has incurred a traumatic injury." Gawande's article is filled with horrifying stories of individuals subjected to isolation similar to or even less enduring than Manning's who have succumbed to extreme long-term psychological breakdown.

Manning is barred from communicating with any reporters, even indirectly, so nothing he has said can be quoted here. But David House, a 23-year-old MIT researcher who befriended Manning after his detention (and then had his laptops, camera and cellphone seized by Homeland Security when entering the U.S.) is one of the few people to have visited Manning several times at Quantico. He describes palpable changes in Manning's physical appearance and behavior just over the course of the several months that he's been visiting him. Like most individuals held in severe isolation, Manning sleeps much of the day, is particularly frustrated by the petty, vindictive denial of a pillow or sheets, and suffers from less and less outdoor time as part of his one-hour daily removal from his cage.

This is why the conditions under which Manning is being detained were once recognized in the U.S. -- and are still recognized in many Western nations -- as not only cruel and inhumane, but torture. More than a century ago, U.S. courts understood that solitary confinement was a barbaric punishment that severely harmed the mental and physical health of those subjected to it. The Supreme Court's 1890 decision in In re Medley noted that as a result of solitary confinement as practiced in the early days of the United States, many "prisoners fell, after even a short confinement, into a semi-fatuous condition . . . and others became violently insane; others still, committed suicide; while those who stood the ordeal better . . . [often] did not recover sufficient mental activity to be of any subsequent service to the community." And in its 1940 decision in Chambers v. Florida, the Court characterized prolonged solitary confinement as "torture" and compared it to "[t]he rack, the thumbscrew, [and] the wheel."

The inhumane treatment of Manning may have international implications as well. There are multiple proceedings now pending in the European Union Human Rights Court, brought by "War on Terror" detainees contesting their extradition to the U.S. on the ground that the conditions under which they likely will be held -- particularly prolonged solitary confinement -- violate the European Convention on Human Rights, which (along with the Convention Against Torture) bars EU states from extraditing anyone to any nation where there is a real risk of inhumane and degrading treatment. The European Court of Human Rights has in the past found detention conditions violative of those rights (in Bulgaria) where "the [detainee] spent 23 hours a day alone in his cell; had limited interaction with other prisoners; and was only allowed two visits per month." From the Journal article referenced above:

International treaty bodies and human rights experts, including the Human Rights Committee, the Committee against Torture, and the U.N. Special Rapporteur on Torture, have concluded that solitary confinement may amount to cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment in violation of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Convention against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman, and Degrading Treatment or Punishment. They have specifically criticized supermax confinement in the United States because of the mental suffering it inflicts.

Subjecting a detainee like Manning to this level of prolonged cruel and inhumane detention can thus jeopardize the ability of the U.S. to secure extradition for other prisoners, as these conditions are viewed in much of the civilized world as barbaric. Moreover, because Manning holds dual American and U.K. citizenship (his mother is British), it is possible for British agencies and human rights organizations to assert his consular rights against these oppressive conditions. At least some preliminary efforts are underway in Britain to explore that mechanism as a means of securing more humane treatment for Manning. Whatever else is true, all of this illustrates what a profound departure from international norms is the treatment to which the U.S. Government is subjecting him.

* * * * *

The plight of Manning has largely been overshadowed by the intense media fixation on WikiLeaks, so it's worth underscoring what it is that he's accused of doing and what he said in his own reputed words about these acts. If one believes the authenticity of the highly edited chat logs of Manning's online conversations with Adrian Lamo that have been released by Wired (that magazine inexcusably continues to conceal large portions of those logs), Manning clearly believed that he was a whistle-blower acting with the noblest of motives, and probably was exactly that. If, for instance, he really is the leaker of the Apache helicopter attack video -- a video which sparked very rare and much-needed realization about the visceral truth of what American wars actually entail -- as well as the war and diplomatic cables revealing substantial government deceit, brutality, illegality and corruption, then he's quite similar to Daniel Ellsberg. Indeed, Ellsberg himself said the very same thing about Manning in June on Democracy Now in explaining why he considers the Army Private to be a "hero":

The fact is that what Lamo reports Manning is saying has a very familiar and persuasive ring to me. He reports Manning as having said that what he had read and what he was passing on were horrible -- evidence of horrible machinations by the US backdoor dealings throughout the Middle East and, in many cases, as he put it, almost crimes. And let me guess that -- he’s not a lawyer, but I'll guess that what looked to him like crimes are crimes, that he was putting out. We know that he put out, or at least it's very plausible that he put out, the videos that he claimed to Lamo. And that's enough to go on to get them interested in pursuing both him and the other.

And so, what it comes down, to me, is -- and I say throwing caution to the winds here -- is that what I've heard so far of Assange and Manning -- and I haven't met either of them -- is that they are two new heroes of mine.

To see why that's so, just recall some of what Manning purportedly said about why he chose to leak, at least as reflected in the edited chat logs published by Wired:

Lamo: what's your endgame plan, then?. . .

Manning: well, it was forwarded to [WikiLeaks] - and god knows what happens now - hopefully worldwide discussion, debates, and reforms - if not, than [sic] we're doomed - as a species - i will officially give up on the society we have if nothing happens - the reaction to the video gave me immense hope; CNN's iReport was overwhelmed; Twitter exploded - people who saw, knew there was something wrong . . . Washington Post sat on the video… David Finkel acquired a copy while embedded out here. . . . - i want people to see the truth… regardless of who they are… because without information, you cannot make informed decisions as a public.

if i knew then, what i knew now - kind of thing, or maybe im just young, naive, and stupid . . . im hoping for the former - it cant be the latter - because if it is… were [censored] screwed (as a society) - and i dont want to believe that we’re screwed.

Manning described the incident which first made him seriously question the U.S. Government: when he was instructed to work on the case of Iraqi "insurgents" who had been detained for distributing so-called "insurgent" literature which, when Manning had it translated, turned out to be nothing more than "a scholarly critique against PM Maliki":

i had an interpreter read it for me… and when i found out that it was a benign political critique titled "Where did the money go?" and following the corruption trail within the PM’s cabinet… i immediately took that information and *ran* to the officer to explain what was going on… he didn’t want to hear any of it… he told me to shut up and explain how we could assist the FPs in finding *MORE* detainees…

i had always questioned the things worked, and investigated to find the truth… but that was a point where i was a *part* of something… i was actively involved in something that i was completely against…

And Manning explained why he never considered the thought of selling this classified information to a foreign nation for substantial profit or even just secretly transmitting it to foreign powers, as he easily could have done:

Manning: i mean what if i were someone more malicious- i could've sold to russia or china, and made bank?

Lamo: why didn’t you?

Manning: because it's public data

Lamo: i mean, the cables

Manning: it belongs in the public domain -information should be free - it belongs in the public domain - because another state would just take advantage of the information… try and get some edge - if its out in the open… it should be a public good.

That's a whistleblower in the purest and most noble form: discovering government secrets of criminal and corrupt acts and then publicizing them to the world not for profit, not to give other nations an edge, but to trigger "worldwide discussion, debates, and reforms." Given how much Manning has been demonized -- at the same time that he's been rendered silent by the ban on his communication with any media -- it's worthwhile to keep all of that in mind.

But ultimately, what one thinks of Manning's alleged acts is irrelevant to the issue here. The U.S. ought at least to abide by minimal standards of humane treatment in how it detains him. That's true for every prisoner, at all times. But departures from such standards are particularly egregious where, as here, the detainee has merely been accused, but never convicted, of wrongdoing. These inhumane conditions make a mockery of Barack Obama's repeated pledge to end detainee abuse and torture, as prolonged isolation -- exacerbated by these other deprivations -- is at least as damaging, as violative of international legal standards, and almost as reviled around the world, as the waterboard, hypothermia and other Bush-era tactics that caused so much controversy.

What all of this achieves is clear. Having it known that the U.S. could and would disappear people at will to "black sites," assassinate them with unseen drones, imprison them for years without a shred of due process even while knowing they were innocent, torture them mercilessly, and in general acts as a lawless and rogue imperial power created a climate of severe intimidation and fear. Who would want to challenge the U.S. Government in any way -- even in legitimate ways -- knowing that it could and would engage in such lawless, violent conduct without any restraints or repercussions?

That is plainly what is going on here. Anyone remotely affiliated with WikiLeaks, including American citizens (and plenty of other government critics), has their property seized and communications stored at the border without so much as a warrant. Julian Assange -- despite never having been charged with, let alone convicted of, any crime -- has now spent more than a week in solitary confinement with severe restrictions under what his lawyer calls "Dickensian conditions." But Bradley Manning has suffered much worse, and not for a week, but for seven months, with no end in sight. If you became aware of secret information revealing serious wrongdoing, deceit and/or criminality on the part of the U.S. Government, would you -- knowing that you could and likely would be imprisoned under these kinds of repressive, torturous conditions for months on end without so much as a trial: just locked away by yourself 23 hours a day without recourse -- be willing to expose it? That's the climate of fear and intimidation which these inhumane detention conditions are intended to create.

* * * * *

UPDATE: I was contacted by Lt. Villiard, who claims there is one factual inaccuracy in what I wrote: specifically, he claims that Manning is not restricted from accessing news or current events during the proscribed time he is permitted to watch television. That is squarely inconsistent with reports from those with first-hand knowledge of Manning's detention, but it's a fairly minor dispute in the scheme of things.
De presidents-kandidaten hadden hun mond vol over hoe verschrikkelijk martelen wel niet is en dat het per direct verboden zou moeten worden, maar blijkbaar is het wel okay als het om staatverraders gaat. Staat, omdat hij z'n land trouw blijft door de misdaden van de staat te openbaren.

Hopelijk gaat de EU snel druk zetten op de VS om deze praktijken te stoppen. Desnoods moet er een VN afgezant zicht houden op zijn situatie.

bron: http://www.salon.com/news(...)d/2010/12/14/manning

[ Bericht 0% gewijzigd door Hamilcar op 16-12-2010 03:09:44 (bron toegevoegd) ]
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Ietwat tendentieuze titel, maar toch goed om het te weten. Leve Glenn Greenwald.
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aardig stukje tekst :{
Ja, met zo'n instelling blijf je natuurlijk zwakbegaafd
pi_89987618
Ach, in menig ander land was ie allang opgeruimd voor zijn verraad, maar daar hoor je ook niemand over.
Radical islam is the snake in the grass.
Moderate islam is the grass that hides the snake.
  donderdag 16 december 2010 @ 08:14:04 #5
81187 ethiraseth
Fuck you, got mine
pi_89988162
quote:
1s.gif Op donderdag 16 december 2010 05:18 schreef Hathor het volgende:
Ach, in menig ander land was ie allang opgeruimd voor zijn verraad, maar daar hoor je ook niemand over.
ach ja, omdat iets nog erger kan is dit helemaal niet erg. :')
Winnaar Agnes Kant knuffel 2010.
Indeed, what are the roots of western geometry? Nothing else but the Egyptian techniques of surveying property.
pi_89988172
quote:
1s.gif Op donderdag 16 december 2010 05:18 schreef Hathor het volgende:
Ach, in menig ander land was ie allang opgeruimd voor zijn verraad, maar daar hoor je ook niemand over.
Nee, hier hoor je veel over... Maar goed, hij zit niet in "menig ander land", hij zit in Amerika.
pi_89988192
quote:
1s.gif Op donderdag 16 december 2010 05:18 schreef Hathor het volgende:
Ach, in menig ander land was ie allang opgeruimd voor zijn verraad, maar daar hoor je ook niemand over.
Die landen die je anders zo veroordeelt vanwege hun barbaarse beleid?
Tijd om de regering van Amerika om te werpen?

:|W
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quote:
10s.gif Op donderdag 16 december 2010 08:16 schreef ShaoliN het volgende:

[..]

Die landen die je anders zo veroordeelt vanwege hun barbaarse beleid?
Tijd om de regering van Amerika om te werpen?

:|W
LOL ga je gang zou ik zeggen.
Radical islam is the snake in the grass.
Moderate islam is the grass that hides the snake.
pi_90121293
Wat het zo'n beetje inhoudt, hieronder. Het is walgelijk en om woedend van te worden. Dit zijn Sovjet-praktijken en dit is onmenselijk. Pure marteling en terreur.

quote:
PFC Manning is currently being held in maximum custody. Since arriving at the Quantico Confinement Facility in July of 2010, he has been held under Prevention of Injury (POI) watch.

His cell is approximately six feet wide and twelve feet in length.

The cell has a bed, a drinking fountain, and a toilet.

The guards at the confinement facility are professional. At no time have they tried to bully, harass, or embarrass PFC Manning. Given the nature of their job, however, they do not engage in conversation with PFC Manning.

At 5:00 a.m. he is woken up (on weekends, he is allowed to sleep until 7:00 a.m.). Under the rules for the confinement facility, he is not allowed to sleep at anytime between 5:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. If he attempts to sleep during those hours, he will be made to sit up or stand by the guards.

He is allowed to watch television during the day. The television stations are limited to the basic local stations. His access to the television ranges from 1 to 3 hours on weekdays to 3 to 6 hours on weekends.

He cannot see other inmates from his cell. He can occasionally hear other inmates talk. Due to being a pretrial confinement facility, inmates rarely stay at the facility for any length of time. Currently, there are no other inmates near his cell.

From 7:00 p.m. to 9:20 p.m., he is given correspondence time. He is given access to a pen and paper. He is allowed to write letters to family, friends, and his attorneys.

Each night, during his correspondence time, he is allowed to take a 15 to 20 minute shower.

On weekends and holidays, he is allowed to have approved visitors see him from 12:00 to 3:00 p.m.

He is allowed to receive letters from those on his approved list and from his legal counsel. If he receives a letter from someone not on his approved list, he must sign a rejection form. The letter is then either returned to the sender or destroyed.

He is allowed to have any combination of up to 15 books or magazines. He must request the book or magazine by name. Once the book or magazine has been reviewed by the literary board at the confinement facility, and approved, he is allowed to have someone on his approved list send it to him. The person sending the book or magazine to him must do so through a publisher or an approved distributor such as Amazon. They are not allowed to mail the book or magazine directly to PFC Manning.

Due to being held on Prevention of Injury (POI) watch:

PFC Manning is held in his cell for approximately 23 hours a day.

The guards are required to check on PFC Manning every five minutes by asking him if he is okay. PFC Manning is required to respond in some affirmative manner. At night, if the guards cannot see PFC Manning clearly, because he has a blanket over his head or is curled up towards the wall, they will wake him in order to ensure he is okay.

He receives each of his meals in his cell.

He is not allowed to have a pillow or sheets. However, he is given access to two blankets and has recently been given a new mattress that has a built-in pillow.

He is not allowed to have any personal items in his cell.

He is only allowed to have one book or one magazine at any given time to read in his cell. The book or magazine is taken away from him at the end of the day before he goes to sleep.

He is prevented from exercising in his cell. If he attempts to do push-ups, sit-ups, or any other form of exercise he will be forced to stop.

He does receive one hour of “exercise” outside of his cell daily. He is taken to an empty room and only allowed to walk. PFC Manning normally just walks figure eights in the room for the entire hour. If he indicates that he no long feels like walking, he is immediately returned to his cell.

When PFC Manning goes to sleep, he is required to strip down to his boxer shorts and surrender his clothing to the guards. His clothing is returned to him the next morning.
http://www.armycourtmarti(...)bradley-manning.html
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Wetten opstellen, maar je er zelf niet aan houden :')

Als het staatsgeheimen van China waren kreeg hij een erepenning, maar van Amerika, ho maar :')
:r :r
  Donald Duck held zondag 19 december 2010 @ 14:20:29 #11
46149 __Saviour__
Superstapelsmoor op Kristel
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Zo, lekker streng regime wel.
❤ Rozen zijn rood ❤
❤ Viooltjes zijn blauw ❤
❤ Kristel, ik hou van jou! ❤
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quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 14:20 schreef __Saviour__ het volgende:
Zo, lekker streng regime wel.
Voor iemand die geen gevaar is voor anderen en zichzelf -nog niet, :{!- en niet veroordeeld is of schuldig bevonden zeker wel iets te gortig. Ze maken deze jongen knettergek, het is geestelijke mishandeling, zoals ze die Padilla ook knettergek hebben gemaakt door hem als een politieke Sovjet-gevangene te behandelen.
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 14:26:36 #13
70357 Hyperdude
#MakeLanciaGreatAgain
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quote:
He is only allowed to have one book or one magazine at any given time to read in his cell. The book or magazine is taken away from him at the end of the day before he goes to sleep.
Doet mijn mama ook. :(

Die eenzame opsluiting duurt natuurlijk veel te lang.
Maar 1 dag eenzame opsluiting zou ik er wel voor over hebben om het langdradige jank-artikel uit de OP niet nog een keer te moeten lezen.
How do we turn this world-class fuck-up into a world-class learning experience?
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 14:27:08 #14
129292 LXIV
Cultuurmoslim
pi_90123024
quote:
1s.gif Op donderdag 16 december 2010 03:08 schreef Hamilcar het volgende:

[..]

De presidents-kandidaten hadden hun mond vol over hoe verschrikkelijk martelen wel niet is en dat het per direct verboden zou moeten worden, maar blijkbaar is het wel okay als het om staatverraders gaat. Staat, omdat hij z'n land trouw blijft door de misdaden van de staat te openbaren.

Hopelijk gaat de EU snel druk zetten op de VS om deze praktijken te stoppen. Desnoods moet er een VN afgezant zicht houden op zijn situatie.

bron: http://www.salon.com/news(...)d/2010/12/14/manning
In democratie 2.0 is martelen helemaal niet meer verschrikkelijk, maar een noodzakelijk kwaad om terrorisme te bestrijden. Ik hoor de laatste tijd helemaal niemand meer roepen dat martelen zo verschrikkelijk is, of het moet het martelen door onze vijanden zijn, wat natuurlijk een onverminderde verschrikking is.
The End Times are wild
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quote:
In democratie 2.0 is martelen helemaal niet meer verschrikkelijk, maar een noodzakelijk kwaad om terrorisme te bestrijden. Ik hoor de laatste tijd helemaal niemand meer roepen dat martelen zo verschrikkelijk is, of het moet het martelen door onze vijanden zijn, wat natuurlijk een onverminderde verschrikking is.
Terrorisme of kinderporno toch? De twee onderwerpen op basis waarvan alle maatregelen toegestaan zijn en door de massa in orde bevonden.

En oh ja, alles kan terrorisme zijn natuurlijk. Hoorde net in een docje over de Dalton broers (de echte dus, niet de lucky luke variant) dat de inwoners van het stadje waar ze zijn omgeknald 'de eerste terrorisme bestrijders' waren. Zo zie je maar weer, ook banken beroven is (sinds 1892) terrorisme.

Ergens zijn we de weg kwijtgeraakt. Het besef dat dezelfde misdaden uithalen als 'de tegenstander' je gelijk maakt aan die tegenstander. Democratie zonder bepaalde basiswaarden is geen democratie, dat is dino, 'democracy in name only'.
pi_90123930
Ah, en de mond vol over Iran!

De mond vol over China!

De mond vol over Rusland!

:D
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 15:00:33 #17
272649 Louis22
Exil im Salon
pi_90124580
Hebben jullie dat leeslijstje van hem gezien?

quote:
Decision Points, by George W. Bush
Critique of Practical Reason, by Immanuel Kant
Critique of Pure Reason, by Immanuel Kant
Propaganda by Edward Bernayse
The Selfish Gene, by Richard Dawkins
A Peoples History of the United States, by Howard Zinn
The Art of War, by Sun Tzu
The Good Soldiers, by David Finkel
On War by Gen. Carl von Clausewitz

Ah, de tijden dat je werkelijk dacht dat je een boek als Der Kritik der reinen Vernunft echt uit ging lezen. En welja, pak Der Kritik der praktischen Vernunft er ook nog maar bij.

En dan te bedenken dat ik jonger ben dan Manning.
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 15:02:09 #18
174018 AryaMehr
By any means necessary
pi_90124668
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 14:47 schreef Chooselife het volgende:
Ah, en de mond vol over Iran!
Ja kom, laten we Iran even vergelijken met de VS. Een student uit Noorwegen die tijdens de protesten in Iran per ongeluk op de verkeerde plek was en gearresteerd werd. Even kijken hoe niet-veroordeelde gevangenen daar werden behandeld:

quote:
Accused of spying

On 27 December last year a friend told him on the Ashoura religious celebrations in the north of Tehran.
- Everybody knew that there was unrest in Tehran at the time, so we did what we used and found an alternative route to avoid unrest.

On the way to where the bus was stopped by three female protesters to flee. The bus driver dropped them in, closed the door and was about to run when the whole windshield was shattered. Representatives from the Basij militia, with knives, batons and chains came on the bus. They first attacked the driver, so they went away at random passengers.

“Lars” hooked together behind the seat. He heard women screaming, and from where he had crouched down, he could see blood on the floor.

Then Basij eye on “Lars”.
- Where are you from, “shouted one.
“Lars replied he was Norwegian and was pulled out of the bus and forced up to a wall. The accusations against hail him. He was a spy, western journalist, a reporter for CNN and the BBC.
- They spoke English to me because they thought I did not understand farsi. I was so scared that I could not answer. I had already seen what they had done to other passengers.

The sound of knees that no longer exists
He had a hood over his head, was placed between two men on a motorcycle and taken to what he believes may have been a temporary outdoor base. A chaotic view, met him when they took off his cap. It was nearly a hundred people. Protesters, Revolutionary Guards and Basij militia on all sides.

Three persons were taken prisoner, were followed up to me. They were laid down in front of me. One of the militias held my face firmly and said “here you should see how we treat the enemies of Allah”, and then stretching the legs out and smashed kneecaps on one of the demonstrators with batons. Another of them, a woman was stabbed in the stomach drawn, he says.

Similar abuse took place in several places around him. A woman was given a baton run into his mouth.
A minibus full of people were burned and those who tried to escape were shot.

As a young boy among protesters shouted Allah Akbar she drove Basij militia against him with a big car. He stood against a wall and was crushed between the car and the wall.
- They did not stop. They just continued to run against the wall while the wheels spun.
When the car finally backed the boy fell on the ground. “Lars” also saw a woman who got his head run over by a car.
Hele verhaal hier:

http://freedomessenger.com/?p=19981

Met je idiote vergelijkingen.
pi_90126163
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 15:02 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:

[..]

Ja kom, laten we Iran even vergelijken met de VS. Een student uit Noorwegen die tijdens de protesten in Iran per ongeluk op de verkeerde plek was en gearresteerd werd. Even kijken hoe niet-veroordeelde gevangenen daar werden behandeld:

[..]

Hele verhaal hier:

http://freedomessenger.com/?p=19981

Met je idiote vergelijkingen.
Wel jammer dat het hele stuk vol met vertaal fouten zit en daarom er nogal verzonnen uitziet.
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 15:42:02 #20
174018 AryaMehr
By any means necessary
pi_90126512
quote:
Op zondag 19 december 2010 15:34 schreef TheoddDutchGuy het volgende:

[..]

Wel jammer dat het hele stuk vol met vertaal fouten zit en daarom er nogal verzonnen uitziet.
Het artikel is vertaald vanuit het Noorweegs, vandaar. Origineel staat in de Noorweegse krant VG.
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 15:42:53 #21
306743 Opa2012
© 2010..2017
pi_90126547
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 15:34 schreef TheoddDutchGuy het volgende:

[..]

Wel jammer dat het hele stuk vol met vertaal fouten zit en daarom er nogal verzonnen uitziet.
Kun jij die bewijs stelling onderbouwen of zwam je maar wat, als een debiel, in de ruimte?
Hans Spekman (PvdA): 'Nivelleren is een feest!' [38 11 9 zetels]
pi_90126588
Dit regime is welliswaar streng, maar als je in Nederland in beperkingen zit is het niet veel beter hoor. Vergeet niet dat dit een millitair regime is, waar tuchregels traditioneel strenger zijn, dat was in Nederland ook het geval.
🕰️₿🕰️₿🕰️₿🕰️₿🕰️₿🕰️ TikTok next Block
pi_90127034
Tendentieuze titel.
"Academics, people who know the word for coal in seventeen languages but gape and stammer when asked to lay a fire."
pi_90128814
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 15:42 schreef Opa2012 het volgende:

[..]

Kun jij die bewijs stelling onderbouwen of zwam je maar wat, als een debiel, in de ruimte?
Ik zeg simpelweg dat het jammer is. :')

Overigens kan dat hele artikel niet geverifieerd worden.
pi_90129703
Tsja, als het nu nog niet duidelijk is dat Barack Obama gewoon een lying piece of shit is, weet ik het ook niet meer.

Onderstaande quote is wel weer positief voor Assange, als de VS om zijn uitlevering vraagt:

quote:
The inhumane treatment of Manning may have international implications as well. There are multiple proceedings now pending in the European Union Human Rights Court, brought by "War on Terror" detainees contesting their extradition to the U.S. on the ground that the conditions under which they likely will be held -- particularly prolonged solitary confinement -- violate the European Convention on Human Rights, which (along with the Convention Against Torture) bars EU states from extraditing anyone to any nation where there is a real risk of inhumane and degrading treatment.
PWBF
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 17:01:27 #26
129292 LXIV
Cultuurmoslim
pi_90130068
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 16:52 schreef Nielsch het volgende:
Tsja, als het nu nog niet duidelijk is dat Barack Obama gewoon een lying piece of shit is, weet ik het ook niet meer.

Onderstaande quote is wel weer positief voor Assange, als de VS om zijn uitlevering vraagt:

[..]

Ik denk dat de macht van Obama heel beperkt is. Die wordt ook geadviseerd en ingelicht door dezelfde kliek als altijd. Je gelooft toch niet serieus dat één man, al is hij president van de VS, het hele beleid en de uitvoering daarvan bepaalt?
The End Times are wild
pi_90130214
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 14:24 schreef Monidique het volgende:

[..]

Voor iemand die geen gevaar is voor anderen en zichzelf -nog niet, :{!- en niet veroordeeld is of schuldig bevonden zeker wel iets te gortig. Ze maken deze jongen knettergek, het is geestelijke mishandeling, zoals ze die Padilla ook knettergek hebben gemaakt door hem als een politieke Sovjet-gevangene te behandelen.
..non est vivere sed valere vita est ..
pi_90130889
quote:
The guards are required to check on PFC Manning every five minutes by asking him if he is okay. PFC Manning is required to respond in some affirmative manner. At night, if the guards cannot see PFC Manning clearly, because he has a blanket over his head or is curled up towards the wall, they will wake him in order to ensure he is okay.
Daar zou je überhaupt toch al gek van worden? :X
pi_90131452
ja, dan kom je toch nooit in een beetje goede slaap?
Of zou je lichaam zich aanpassen, en minder omrollen? neem aan dat je in iedergeval al bewust maar met je gezicht de goede kant op gaat liggen, zodat je minder gewekt wordt :)
..non est vivere sed valere vita est ..
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 17:50:01 #30
306743 Opa2012
© 2010..2017
pi_90132317
Als je dat pedofielendraadje gezien hebt dan mag hij god op z'n blote knietjes bedanken!
Hans Spekman (PvdA): 'Nivelleren is een feest!' [38 11 9 zetels]
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 17:53:23 #31
328838 Berlitz
Salonfascist
pi_90132496
Heeft manning zelf uitgelokt.
pi_90133217
Bij het lezen van de OP werd ik witheet, dit valt op geen enkele manier recht te praten, al helemaal niet in een democratisch land.

Zijn er daadwerkelijk mensen die deze marteling goedpraten?
Dat soort volk zou direct uit de samenleving verwijderd moeten worden.
pi_90133291
quote:
Heeft manning zelf uitgelokt.
En daar ga je dus de mist in. Wat ons onderscheidt van 'de terroristen' en de 'foute regimes' zijn een aantal basiswaarden. Die basiswaarden zijn voor iedereen hetzelfde.
• De eerste is: onschuldig tot anderszins bewezen.
• De tweede is: de rechter bepaald de strafmaat
• De derde is: ieder individu heeft recht op een menswaardige behandeling

Alle drie deze regels worden met voeten getreden. Derhalve is er geen fundamenteel verschil tussen de VS en pakweg Iran of Noord Korea op dit punt.
pi_90134281
Verraad en spionage tijdens oorlogstijd... kan van geluk spreken dat ze hem niet meteen geëxecuteerd hebben.
pi_90135042
verraad zie ik nog wel.
spionage dan weer niet.

maar ok, hoogverraad dus een beetje. Ja vroeger zou meteen z'n hoofd eraf zijn gegaan.
..non est vivere sed valere vita est ..
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 18:46:43 #36
172669 Papierversnipperaar
Cafeďne is ook maar een drug.
pi_90135109
quote:
Hopelijk gaat de EU snel druk zetten op de VS
Europa weet niet hoe snel ze hun principes en wetten aan de kant moeten zetten om Assange onschadelijk te maken, maar ze gaan Manning helpen? :')
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
pi_90135141
het is dan ook een vuile verrader die staatsgeheimen heeft gelekt.
vroeger werd je daarvoor gewoon direct ge-executeerd
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 18:47:29 #38
172669 Papierversnipperaar
Cafeďne is ook maar een drug.
pi_90135152
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 18:30 schreef Royyy het volgende:
Verraad en spionage tijdens oorlogstijd... kan van geluk spreken dat ze hem niet meteen geëxecuteerd hebben.
De laatste tijd lijkt het wel overal en altijd oorlog te zijn. :O
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
pi_90135469
quote:
99s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 18:45 schreef Augustus_Thijs het volgende:
verraad zie ik nog wel.
spionage dan weer niet.

maar ok, hoogverraad dus een beetje. Ja vroeger zou meteen z'n hoofd eraf zijn gegaan.
US Uniform Code of Military Justice
§ 906a. Art. 106a. Espionage

(a)
(1) Any person subject to this chapter who, with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any entity described in paragraph (2), either directly or indirectly, anything described in paragraph (3) shall be punished as a court-martial may direct, except that if the accused is found guilty of an offense that directly concerns
(A) nuclear weaponry, military spacecraft or satellites, early warning systems, or other means of defense or retaliation against large scale attack,
(B) war plans,
(C) communications intelligence or cryptographic information, or
(D) any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy, the accused shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

(2) An entity referred to in paragraph (1) is
(A) a foreign government;
(B) a faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States; or
(C) a representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen of such a government, faction, party, or force.

(3) A thing referred to in paragraph (1) is a document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance, or information relating to the national defense.
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 19:36:03 #40
129292 LXIV
Cultuurmoslim
pi_90137468
quote:
7s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 18:46 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:

[..]

Europa weet niet hoe snel ze hun principes en wetten aan de kant moeten zetten om Assange onschadelijk te maken, maar ze gaan Manning helpen? :')
Het enige principe dat de EU heeft is het uitoefenen van macht. En alles wat die uitoefening in de weg zit moet vernietigd worden.
The End Times are wild
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 20:19:14 #41
306743 Opa2012
© 2010..2017
pi_90139839
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 19:36 schreef LXIV het volgende:

[..]

Het enige principe dat de EU heeft is het uitoefenen van macht. En alles wat die uitoefening in de weg zit moet vernietigd worden.
En dat is op dit ogenblik Amerika (die een Drittes Reich in de weg staat).
Hans Spekman (PvdA): 'Nivelleren is een feest!' [38 11 9 zetels]
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 20:20:28 #42
172669 Papierversnipperaar
Cafeďne is ook maar een drug.
pi_90139906
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 20:19 schreef Opa2012 het volgende:

[..]

En dat is op dit ogenblik Amerika (die een Drittes Reich in de weg staat).
If you can't beat them ...
Free Assange! Hack the Planet
[b]Op dinsdag 6 januari 2009 19:59 schreef Papierversnipperaar het volgende:[/b]
De gevolgen van de argumenten van de anti-rook maffia
  zondag 19 december 2010 @ 20:20:46 #43
45206 Pietverdriet
Ik wou dat ik een ijsbeer was.
pi_90139928
quote:
2s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 13:47 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Wat het zo'n beetje inhoudt, hieronder. Het is walgelijk en om woedend van te worden. Dit zijn Sovjet-praktijken en dit is onmenselijk. Pure marteling en terreur.

[..]

http://www.armycourtmarti(...)bradley-manning.html
Jij hebt echt geen idee of je bent sarcastisch
In Baden-Badener Badeseen kann man Baden-Badener baden sehen.
pi_90140592
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 20:20 schreef Pietverdriet het volgende:

[..]

Jij hebt echt geen idee of je bent sarcastisch
Ik heb een idee en ik ben niet sarcastisch.
pi_90168591
quote:
1s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 15:42 schreef AryaMehr het volgende:

[..]

Het artikel is vertaald vanuit het Noorweegs, vandaar. Origineel staat in de Noorweegse krant VG.
Noorweegs? :')
pi_90169508
quote:
1s.gif Op maandag 20 december 2010 11:41 schreef Sosha het volgende:

[..]

Noorweegs? :')
In het Afrikaans is het wel correct :)
http://af.wiktionary.org/wiki/Noorweegs
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  dinsdag 21 december 2010 @ 22:39:21 #47
94080 VeX-
HAHA..JIJ hebt HEUL veel POSTS
pi_90260263
Ik betwijfel of hij daadwerkelijk gemarteld wordt, maar deze foto laat zien dat hij er fysiek erg op achteruit is gegaan.

SPOILER: Voor
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Life is just a series of peaks and troughs, yeah. And you don't know whether you're in a trough until you're climbing out, or on a peak, 'till you're coming down. And that's it. - David Brent
pi_90261945
quote:
2s.gif Op zondag 19 december 2010 13:47 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Wat het zo'n beetje inhoudt, hieronder. Het is walgelijk en om woedend van te worden. Dit zijn Sovjet-praktijken en dit is onmenselijk. Pure marteling en terreur.

[..]

http://www.armycourtmarti(...)bradley-manning.html
Hetzelfde bijna als de Nederlandse isolatiecel met het verschil dat je wel mag opdrukken en iets langer mag slapen.
Voor de rest is het compleet hetzelfde
pi_90265624
quote:
1s.gif Op dinsdag 21 december 2010 22:39 schreef VeX- het volgende:
Ik betwijfel of hij daadwerkelijk gemarteld wordt, maar deze foto laat zien dat hij er fysiek erg op achteruit is gegaan.

SPOILER: Voor
Om spoilers te kunnen lezen moet je zijn ingelogd. Je moet je daarvoor eerst gratis Registreren. Ook kun je spoilers niet lezen als je een ban hebt.
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Marteling kan ook psychologisch en kijkende naar de "na" foto ben ik er haast zeker van dat dat gebeurt. Fysieke marteling sluit ik ook helemaal niet uit, zou me juist verbazen wanneer dat niet gebeurt.
  woensdag 22 december 2010 @ 00:14:59 #50
306743 Opa2012
© 2010..2017
pi_90266099
quote:
1s.gif Op woensdag 22 december 2010 00:07 schreef Refragmental het volgende:

[..]

Marteling kan ook psychologisch en kijkende naar de "na" foto ben ik er haast zeker van dat dat gebeurt. Fysieke marteling sluit ik ook helemaal niet uit, zou me juist verbazen wanneer dat niet gebeurt.
Nou ja, vergeleken met z'n Iraanse collega's ziet hij er nog prima uit hoor.
Hans Spekman (PvdA): 'Nivelleren is een feest!' [38 11 9 zetels]
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