Moskee bij Ground Zero, Wilders bij protest #3 poging 2

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Op zondag 15 augustus 2010 14:30 schreef BansheeBoy het volgende:
Die Moskee komt er wel, en dan ben ik de eerste die dansend van vreugd in the frontline staat. Amerika kan het zich niet veroorloven om Saoedi Arabië te schofferen.

²

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 09:32 schreef Ringo het volgende:
Goed, nog één keer.

In Marokko is een moskee verboden terrein voor niet-moslims, op enkele toeristische uitzonderingen na. Er hangt dan ook regelmatig het bordje "Interdit aux non musulmans" boven de deur van een gebedshuis.

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A House of Worship or a Symbol of Destruction?

By Abdul Rahman Al-Rashid

US President Barack Obama adopted a difficult position when he supported the building of a mosque near ground zero, where 3,000 US citizens died at the hands of Al-Qaeda terrorists on 11 September 2001.

Despite the fact that the president adopted the correct stance in principle, i.e. the principle of freedom of worship, in my opinion he adopted an unnecessary and unimportant stance, even as far as Muslims are concerned. The mosque is not an issue for Muslims, and they are not bothered by its construction.

This reminds us of another principled stance Obama took when he insisted on putting the Guantanamo prisoners accused of belonging to Al-Qaeda on trial before civilian courts, and on closing down the military prison. It is true that this stance deserves appreciation. However, the fact is that he fought a battle that does not concern Muslims across the world, because there are tens of thousands of Muslims - similar to those accused of extremism - who are imprisoned in worse conditions in Muslim countries.

Muslims do not aspire for a mosque next to the 11 September cemetery, and are not bothered with Bin Ladin's cook being put on trial in a civilian court. Muslims have issues that encroach upon the destinies of nations; these issues are the cause of isolation and calamity, such as the establishment of the State of Palestine. For Obama to focus his energy and efforts, and fight for the establishment of peace in the Middle East is more important and more valuable than a mosque in New York.

The fact is that building a mosque next to the site of the World Trade Center Twin Towers, which were destroyed during the 11 September attacks, is a strange story. This is because the mosque is not an issue for Muslims, and they have not heard of it until the shouting became loud between the supporters and the objectors, which is mostly an argument between non-Muslim US citizens!

Neither did the Muslims ask for a single building, nor do the angry Muslims want the mosque. This is one of the few times when the two opposing sides are in agreement. Nevertheless, the dispute has escalated, and has reached the front pages of the press and the major television programs, demonstrations have been staged in the streets, and large posters have been hung on buses roaming the streets of New York calling for preventing the building of the mosque and reminding the people of the 11 September crime. It really is a strange battle!

I cannot imagine that Muslims want a mosque on this particular site, because it will be turned into an arena for promoters of hatred, and a symbol of those who committed the crime. At the same time, there are no practicing Muslims in the district who need a place of worship, because it is indeed a commercial district. Is there a side that is committed to this mosque? The fact is that in the news reports there are names linked to this project that costs 100 million dollars!

The sides enthusiastic for building the mosque might be building companies, architect houses, or politicized groups that want suitable investments?! I do not know whether the building applicant wants a mosque whose aim is reconciliation, or he is an investor who wants quick profits. This is because the idea of the mosque specifically next to the destruction is not at all a clever deed. The last thing Muslims want today is to build just a religious center out of defiance to the others, or a symbolic mosque that people visit as a museum next to a cemetery.

What the US citizens do not understand is that the battle against the 11 September terrorists is a Muslim battle, and not theirs, and this battle still is ablaze in more than 20 Muslim countries. Some Muslims will consider that building a mosque on this site immortalizes and commemorates what was done by the terrorists who committed their crime in the name of Islam. I do not think that the majority of Muslims want to build a symbol or a worship place that tomorrow might become a place about which the terrorists and their Muslim followers boast, and which will become a shrine for Islam haters whose aim is to turn the public opinion against Islam. This is what has started to happen now; they claim that there is a mosque being built over the corpses of 3,000 killed US citizens, who were buried alive by people chanting God is great, which is the same call that will be heard from the mosque.

It is the wrong battle, because originally there was no mosque in order to rebuild it, and there are no practicing Muslims who want a place in which to worship.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 14:29 schreef Ringo het volgende:
Wie heeft er nou om dat relicentrum gevraagd, op die paar opdringerige kwezels na? Bruggen bouwen, ja leuk, maar de wereld is meer dan de som van ieders goede bedoelingen.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 14:23 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:
Inderdaad, bruggen bouwen. Hoe durven ze. Eens met Ringo.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 14:57 schreef Ringo het volgende:
Goede bedoelingen pakken soms heel kwaad uit. Dan moet je verstandig zijn, en niet doordrammen ten koste van alles, omdat je toevallig denkt het morele gelijk aan je zijde te hebben. Ik ben blij dat jij dat ook inziet. .

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 14:57 schreef Ringo het volgende:
Goede bedoelingen pakken soms heel kwaad uit. Dan moet je verstandig zijn, en niet doordrammen ten koste van alles, omdat je toevallig denkt het morele gelijk aan je zijde te hebben. Ik ben blij dat jij dat ook inziet. .

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Rabbi Arthur Waskow speaks at a news conference to show support for a proposed mosque at 45 Park Place August 5, 2010 in New York City. Jewish community leaders, rabbis and others gathered in front of the building where the Cordoba Initiative Mosque and Cultural Center would be housed to support the center. Last week the Anti-Defamation League came out against the controversial center, which, if built, would be only blocks from Ground Zero.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 14:57 schreef Wijze_appel het volgende:

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Als je dat artikel van die site gelezen had wist je dat de moslims zelf het niet zozeer zien als bruggen bouwen. Dat is later eraan geplakt toen de discussie erover oplaaide. Beetje een non-argument dus.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 14:57 schreef Ringo het volgende:
Goede bedoelingen pakken soms heel kwaad uit. Dan moet je verstandig zijn, en niet doordrammen ten koste van alles, omdat je toevallig denkt het morele gelijk aan je zijde te hebben. Ik ben blij dat jij dat ook inziet. .

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 15:01 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Moslims? Ik weet dat je ze als één entiteit ziet. Maar zoals je ziet is de werkelijkheid een stuk gecompliceerder.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 15:00 schreef lurf_doctor het volgende:

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Nu Geert nog.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 15:04 schreef Wijze_appel het volgende:

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Net zoals jij het over Amerikanen hebt, of Wilders volgeling bijvoorbeeld?
Als je gevat wilt zijn moet je wel wat beter je eigen straatje schoonvegen.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 15:06 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Waar heb ik het over Amerikanen of Wilders volgelingen?

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 15:06 schreef Wijze_appel het volgende:

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Je neus bloed.

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Nothing new about mosques in New York

(CNN) -- It's hard to think of a better place for a mosque today than lower Manhattan, near to ground zero. To support the siting of a mosque there is not just deeply American--a declaration of the freedoms we stand for -- it is the continuation of a long and established New York tradition of mosque-building.

In fact, by any historical measure it is absurd to see Cordoba House, a community center that will include a mosque, as a kind of hostile and exotic cultural invasion of the lower east side. Mosques have been part of New York's rich architectural and religious mix for over a century, and today hundreds of thousands of Muslims, many whose New York roots go back generations -- attend the city's more than 100 mosques in the five boroughs.

The Muslims who built these mosques are New Yorkers, blameless in the events of September 11, 2001, and linked to other New Yorkers through the deep shared sense of loss and pain evoked that day. Their mosques, already part of our urban identity, bear witness to the strength of our freedoms, as will the Cordoba House center.

It is likely that Muslims have prayed in New York City for much of its history, and particular buildings have been dedicated to Muslim prayer for over a century.

Muslim slaves from Africa who lived in New York no doubt had places to pray as early as the 18th century, but the first mosque building in New York was likely the one belonging to the American Mohammedan Society in 1907 on Powers Street in Brooklyn.

The Islamic Mission of America constructed its own mosque in 1939, and in 1947 purchased the brownstone where the Masjid Daoud can still be found today.

The number of mosques in the city began to increase significantly in the 1960s after the ratification of the 1965 Immigration Act, which increased immigration from non-European countries with Muslim populations.

Over time, they would range from modest basement prayer halls to elaborate architect-designed buildings. One small mosque in Brooklyn is composed of a dozen neighbors who take turns leading prayer.
The first mosque of a new Muslim community in New York, for example, might simply be a suburban house, like the split-level in Richmond Hills, Queens that served as the Masjid Hazrat-i-abu Bakr in the 1990s. With time, the community might gather the funds to construct a more elaborate building, like Masjid Hazrat-i-abu Bakr's grander building today at the same location.

Many mosques in New York City are built and financed by the community members themselves; some donate materials or work or money. The Ali Pasha Mosque in Astoria, and the Albanian Cultural center in Staten Island were completed in the 1990's with the help of the contracting and manual labor of their communities.

A new mosque can result in the building up of a neighborhood. Fatih Camii was fashioned from an old building in Sunset Park, Brooklyn, and a representative of the New York Police's 66th Precinct commented to me in the 1990's that the mosque had revitalized the neighborhood: "Since the congregation renovated the building and began to function, the entire neighborhood has profited."

This is surely the case with the Masjid Malcolm Shabazz, a renovation of the former Lenox Casino in Harlem by architect Sabbath Brown in 1965. There the addition of dome marks the presence not only of a mosque, but a school and other community services that make it a beacon in the neighborhood.

The mosque's community has been instrumental in constructing low income housing and supporting the economic revitalization of Harlem. Mosques as community centers all around New York provide day care, help with small business start up, rooms for events, classes in English and other languages, gyms and recreational facilities for their neighborhoods.

New York's newly designed mosques are real products of American pluralistic culture. The first mosque in New York designed from the ground up was probably Masjid Alfalah in which the community collaborated with a local Korean-American architect William Park, in 1983.

Such grand mosques as the Albanian Cultural Center in Staten Island, or the modernist Islamic Cultural Center on Manhattan's East Side (designed by the famed architectural firm Skidmore, Owings and Merrill) are monuments to the transformations wrought by Muslim communities: They are American mosques.
Yesterday New York City's landmarks commission voted unanimously to deny historic status to the Park Place site, clearing the way for construction of Cordoba House, also known as Park51.

The name Cordoba House, though, is particularly fitting -- an evocation of the rich interactions of Christians, Muslims and Jews in Medieval Spain. Medieval Spain was not often a paradise of tolerance and peace. But where peoples lived together, the understanding spawned by that coexistence gave the lie to the notion that Muslims, Jews and Christians must by nature be opposed, and created a more cohesive, fecund, peaceful and plural society.

The Muslims who pray in New York's mosques are Americans who, like Catholic or Jewish immigrants before them, seek to be part of the city, part of this country.

The more than 100 mosques of New York are visual signs, not only of the presence of these Muslim Americans, but also of the religious freedom that distinguishes the American way of life. By their very existence they defeat the hostile, polarized vision of Islam and America that the authors of the WTC attacks hoped to engender.

If we wish to stand in defiance of the unspeakable death and destruction of 9/11, we could not do better than to welcome Cordoba House in the very neighborhood of lower Manhattan where those unspeakable acts occurred, as part of the city's long history tradition of mosque-building.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 15:05 schreef Ringo het volgende:

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Die eikel heeft daar niets te zoeken. Maar ook zonder Wilders blijft het issue hetzelfde.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 15:06 schreef Mutant01 het volgende:

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Je kan ook gewoon antwoord geven.

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Op maandag 16 augustus 2010 15:08 schreef lurf_doctor het volgende:

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Welk issue? Dat je in een land met godsdienstvrijheid in principe overal een gebedshuis moet kunnen openen?