Israël valt hulpkonvooi aan #9

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:42 schreef Mylene het volgende:

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Ik zou het eerlijk vinden als Israël er ook bij wordt betrokken als partij.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:45 schreef kahaarin het volgende:

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Jawel, 70 km buiten Israeli nationale wateren. Echt nog wel in internationale wateren.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:42 schreef Mylene het volgende:

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Ik zou het eerlijk vinden als Israël er ook bij wordt betrokken als partij.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:46 schreef OldJeller het volgende:

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Ja, want dat is goed voor de objectiviteit.

Nee, de VN niet, want die zijn niet neutraal. !

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:45 schreef kahaarin het volgende:

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Jawel, 70 km buiten Israeli nationale wateren. Echt nog wel in internationale wateren.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:43 schreef Odd-bin-Noel het volgende:

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Ja, excuus. Maar daar doelde ik op.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:48 schreef Mylene het volgende:

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Lezen, als partij. Samen met Turkije en andere partijen.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:49 schreef Hathor het volgende:
en kan dat gestoorde wijf zich trouwens zelf niet eens opblazen?

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:47 schreef Schaffelaar het volgende:

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Als dat zo is (Bron?) is het nogal dom om er verder over te discussiëren, de fout ligt in dat geval bij Israël, die hadden op zijn minst moeten wachten tot het schip binnen Israëlische wateren kwam.

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Ten minste negentien personen aan boord van schepen van de Freedom Flotilla (Vrijheidsvloot) zijn volgens Israëlische media om het leven gekomen toen commando's maandagochtend vroeg zes vaartuigen in internationale wateren aanvielen.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:50 schreef OldJeller het volgende:

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Die mogen allemaal hun eigen onderzoek doen.
Een partij die hier volledig los van staat zou een eigen onderzoek moeten doen. Daarna kan je eventueel de verschillende onderzoeken met elkaar vergelijken. Maar nooit een partij een onderzoek laten uitvoeren als de partij er zelf bij betrokken is.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:49 schreef Burakius het volgende:

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70 mijl was het 1 uur 's middags op Turkse tv.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:52 schreef Mylene het volgende:

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Okay, maar in de VN heb ik geen vertrouwen.

Ik weet ook zo gauw niet wie het dan zou moeten doen.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:33 schreef opgebaarde het volgende:
Deel 9 wow hilarisch

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:50 schreef Mylene het volgende:

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Bedoel je die heks van een Gretta?

Opblazen hoeft ook weer niet. Ze is alleen haar bezemsteel zoek.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:49 schreef Burakius het volgende:

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70 mijl was het 1 uur 's middags op Turkse tv.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:32 schreef Mylene het volgende:
@ sp3c, ik heb nog een linkje gevonden over het betreden van konvooi in internationale wateren.

http://www.icrc.org/IHL.nsf/FULL/560?OpenDocument

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PART III : BASIC RULES AND TARGET DISCRIMINATION

SECTION I : BASIC RULES

38. In any armed conflict the right of the parties to the conflict to choose methods or means of warfare is not unlimited.

39. Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between civilians or other protected persons and combatants and between civilian or exempt objects and military objectives.

40. In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage.

41. Attacks shall be limited strictly to military objectives. Merchant vessels and civil aircraft are civilian objects unless they are military objectives in accordance with the principles and rules set forth in this document.

42. In addition to any specific prohibitions binding upon the parties to a conflict, it is forbidden to employ methods or means of warfare which:

(a) are of a nature to cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering; or
(b) are indiscriminate, in that:
they are not, or cannot be, directed against a specific military objective; or
(ii) their effects cannot be limited as required by international law as reflected in this document.

43. It is prohibited to order that there shall be no survivors, to threaten an adversary therewith or to conduct hostilities on this basis.

44. Methods and means of warfare should be employed with due regard for the natural environment taking into account the relevant rules of international law. Damage to or destruction of the natural environment not justified by military necessity and carried out wantonly is prohibited.

45. Surface ships, submarines and aircraft are bound by the same principles and rules.

SECTION II : PRECAUTIONS IN ATTACK

46. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:

(a) those who plan, decide upon or execute an attack must take all feasible measures to gather information which will assist in determining whether or not objects which are not military objectives are present in an area of attack;
(b) in the light of the information available to them, those who plan, decide upon or execute an attack shall do everything feasible to ensure that attacks are limited to military objectives;
(c) they shall furthermore take all feasible precautions in the choice of methods and means in order to avoid or minimize collateral casualties or damage; and
(d) an attack shall not be launched if it may be expected to cause collateral casualties or damage which world be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the attack as a whole; an attack shall be cancelled or suspended as soon as it becomes apparent that the collateral casualties or damage would be excessive.

Section VI of this Part provides additional precautions regarding civil aircraft.

SECTION III : ENEMY VESSELS AND AIRCRAFT EXEMPT FROM ATTACK

Classes of vessels exempt from attack

47. The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:

(a) hospital ships;
(b) small craft used for coastal rescue operations and other medical transports;
(c) vessels granted safe conduct by agreement between the belligerent parties including:
cartel vessels, e.g., vessels designated for and engaged in the transport of prisoners of war;
(ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations;
(d) vessels engaged in transporting cultural property under special protection;
(e) passenger vessels when engaged only in carrying civilian passengers;
(f) vessels charged with religious, non-military scientifc or philanthropic missions, vessels collecting scientific data of likely military applications are not protected;
(g) small coastal fishing vessels and small boats engaged in local coastal trade, but they are subject to the regulations of a belligerent naval commander operating in the area and to inspection;
(h) vessels designated or adapted exclusively for responding to pollution incidents in the marine environment;
vessels which have surrendered;
(j) life rafts and life boats.

Conditions of exemption

48. Vessels listed in paragraph 47 are exempt from attack only if they:

(a) are innocently employed in their normal role;
(b) submit to identification and inspection when required; and
(c) do not intentionally hamper the movement of combatants and obey orders to stop or move out of the way when required.

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SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT

Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.

68. Any attack on these vessels is subject to the basic rules in paragraphs 38-46.

69. The mere fact that a neutral merchant vessel is armed provides no grounds for attacking it.

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PART V : MEASURES SHORT OF ATTACK: INTERCEPTION, VISIT, SEARCH, DIVERSION AND CAPTURE

SECTION I ETERMINATION OF ENEMY CHARACTER OF VESSELS AND AIRCRAFT

112. The fact that a merchant vessel is flying the flag of an enemy State or that a civil aircraft bears the marks of an enemy State is conclusive evidence of its enemy character.

113. The fact that a merchant vessel is flying the flag of a neutral State or a civil aircraft bears the marks of a neutral State is prima facie evidence of its neutral character.

114. If the commander of a warship suspects that a merchant vessel flying a neutral flag in fact has enemy character, the commander is entitled to exercise the right of visit and search, including the right of diversion for search under paragraph 121.

115. If the commander of a military aircraft suspects that a civil aircraft with neutral marks in fact has enemy character, the commander is entitled to exercise the right of interception and, if circumstances require, the right to divert for the purpose of visit and search.

116. If, after visit and search, there is reasonable ground for suspicion that the merchant vessel flying a neutral flag or a civil aircraft with neutral marks has enemy character, the vessel or aircraft may be captured as prize subject to adjudication.

117. Enemy character can be determined by registration, ownership, charter or other criteria.

SECTION II : VISIT AND SEARCH OF MERCHANT VESSELS

Basic rules

118. In exercising their legal rights in an international armed conflict at sea, belligerent warships and military aircraft have a right to visit and search merchant vessels outside neutral waters where there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that they are subject to capture.

119. As an alternative to visit and search, a neutral merchant vessel may, with its consent, be diverted from its declared destination.

Merchant vessels under convoy of accompanying neutral warships

120. A neutral merchant vessel is exempt from the exercise of the right of visit and search if it meets the following conditions:

(a) it is bound for a neutral port;
(b) it is under the convoy of an accompanying neutral warship of the same nationality or a neutral warship of a State with which the flag State of the merchant vessel has concluded an agreement providing for such convoy;
(c) the flag State of the neutral warship warrants that the neutral merchant vessel is not carrying contraband or otherwise engaged in activities inconsistent with its neutral status; and
(d) the commander of the neutral warship provides, if requested by the commander of an intercepting belligerent warship or military aircraft, all information as to the character of the merchant vessel and its cargo as could otherwise be obtained by visit and search.

Diversion for the purpose of visit and search

121. If visit and search at sea is impossible or unsafe, a belligerent warship or military aircraft may divert a merchant vessel to an appropriate area or port in order to exercise the right of visit and search.

Measures of supervision

122. In order to avoid the necessity of visit and search, belligerent States may establish reasonable measures for the inspection of cargo of neutral merchant vessels and certification that a vessel is not carrying contraband.

123. The fact that a neutral merchant vessel has submitted to such measures of supervision as the inspection of its cargo and grant of certificates of non-contraband cargo by one belligerent is not an act of unneutral service with regard to an opposing belligerent.

124. In order to obviate the necessity for visit and search, neutral States are encouraged to enforce reasonable control measures and certification procedures to ensure that their merchant vessels are not carrying contraband.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:50 schreef OldJeller het volgende:

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Die mogen allemaal hun eigen onderzoek doen.
Een partij die hier volledig los van staat zou een eigen onderzoek moeten doen. Daarna kan je eventueel de verschillende onderzoeken met elkaar vergelijken. Maar nooit een partij een onderzoek laten uitvoeren als de partij er zelf bij betrokken is.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:52 schreef kahaarin het volgende:

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Oh, sorry, verkeerd gelezen dan, ik heb verschillende bronnen gezien. Ik houd me bij nederlandse bronnen die heel duidelijk zeggen internationale wateren, hoe ver weg is imo niet zo belangrijk. 2 km zijn er 2 te veel.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:18 schreef Mylene het volgende:

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Dat zeggen notabene de Turken. Iets met pot en keten. Ja toch?

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:55 schreef kahaarin het volgende:

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Ja, dat klopt, maar wie zou dat moeten zijn dan? Ik kan zo gauw niemand bedenken.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:53 schreef Hathor het volgende:

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Juist, die bedoel ik, en als ze hem kwijt is, zou ze misschien eens diep...DIEP...tussen haar benen moeten zoeken, ik heb namelijk de indruk dat daar in de loop der jaren nogal het een en ander zoek is geraakt.

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Op dinsdag 1 juni 2010 00:55 schreef Stupendous76 het volgende:

Heb volgens mij de van toepassing zijnde passages er al uitgehaald, maar provisorisch (en al in de nacht)