[F1] F1 nieuwtjes topic deel 54; Waar Fisi z'n kans krijgt

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Op maandag 14 september 2009 17:08 schreef Googolplexian het volgende:

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Wees dan ook zo hoffelijk om iets van een vertaling erbij te plaatsen, joh. Of zal ik m'n nieuwsberichten voortaan in Papiamentu posten?

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Fernando Alonso knew everything about the crash-gate and his denying is simply a lie, argues triple Formula One champion Nelson Piquet. Backing his son in the scandal that made the headlines around the world, Piquet Sr. argued that there's no way the Spaniard didn't know about the whole affair if one were to consider his race strategy.



Although constantly faster than most of the drivers in the field through the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix practice sessions, Alonso's R28 let him down during the Saturday qualifying, when an engine problem got him to start 15th on race day. As a result, he went for a low-fuel strategy on Sunday, which caught him on the track and refueled by the time Piquet had crashed.

From that point on, Alonso was to simply drive with the same number of pit stops remaining as the other drivers, only from the leading spot.

“Fernando knew everything. He couldn't ignore it. If you are 15th on the grid at a street circuit, there is no point going out with no fuel. At most you will pass three cars and after your last stop you stay where you are. It's a senseless strategy,” said Piquet, according to the Spanish newspaper Diario Sport.

Contradicting Piquet Sr. was, however, the very FIA president Max Mosley, who insisted that the ruling body has no proof whatsoever of Alonso's involvement in the whole scandal. More, as revealed by F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone himself, the man everybody in the Piquet family seems to be after at the moment is solely Flavio Briatore.

“Nelson told me that he is going to do everything he can to destroy Briatore,” reportedly told the 78-year old Brit reporters from the aforementioned publication.

Apart from being good friends, Ecclestone and Briatore are also business partners. The two are currently co-owning English Coca-Cola Championship football club Queens Park Rangers, purchased back in 2007.

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Canada confirms 2010 calendar slot

Canadian Grand Prix organisers announced on Monday they have reached a settlement with Formula One Administration that will mean the Montreal race will return to the calendar next year.

The Canadian event was absent from this year's schedule for the first time since 1987, meaning there were no races in North America.

However, negotiations to bring the race back had been ongoing and the GP was already listed on a provisional 2010 calendar with a June 6 date.

On Monday, organisers confirmed a deal that will see Montreal back next year.

"I am very happy, and fully satisfied, with this outcome," said Normand Legault, CEO of Grand Prix F1 du Canada. "I have always been confident of being able to resolve the dispute, given the in-depth understanding I have had to develop of the Formula 1 racing situation in Canada.

"And I am especially pleased that an announcement is forthcoming to the effect that the Canadian Grand Prix will be back on the FIA calendar as of 2010. I never doubted that the Canadian race would regain its rightful place on the FIA schedule, and my discussions with F1 management led me to believe that the event would return soon.

"The race is important not only for Formula 1, but also for the teams, manufacturers and sponsors. I am also happy for the Canadian Grand Prix's many fans, because they are true F1 enthusiasts who appreciate the real value of the spectacle and the competition."

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Op maandag 14 september 2009 17:29 schreef Tarado het volgende:

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...........en dat als je als 15e met weinig brandstof op een stratencircuit wordt weggestuurd je niet kan doen alsof je neus bloed, je kan misschien 3 auto's passeren maar dan houdt het wel op.
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http://www.autoevolution.(...)lt-s-plan-10899.html

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Op maandag 14 september 2009 18:37 schreef ElmarO het volgende:

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Op maandag 14 september 2009 18:37 schreef ElmarO het volgende:

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Op maandag 14 september 2009 17:29 schreef Tarado het volgende:

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OK, excuses

ik vond het wat lang om het hele stuk te vertalen en het belangrijkste heb ik in de kop gezet; dat volgens Piquet SR Alonso van hele strategie inclusief crash wist. en dat als je als 15e met weinig brandstof op een stratencircuit wordt weggestuurd je niet kan doen alsof je neus bloed, je kan misschien 3 auto's passeren maar dan houdt het wel op.

Verder zegt Piquet SR dat hij alles in het werk zal stellen om Briatore te vernietigen

ik heb een stukje van dezelfde strekking in het engels gevonden voor meer leesgemak

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Op maandag 14 september 2009 22:03 schreef beantherio het volgende:

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Wat een rattenbende, die Piquet-familie. Zelfs als het waar zou zijn dat die crash in scene gezet is dan vind ik het ongehoord dat ie ook nog eens Alonso erbij probeert te slepen. Als ik SR was dan zou ik me maar meer druk maken om het feit dat zoonlief het soort zondagsrijder is die zich leent voor dat soort oplichterij.

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FIA adviser: In your own words Mr. Symonds what do you recall being said to Nelson Piquet Jnr at that meeting? This is shortly before the race.

Symonds: I don't really remember it.

FIA adviser: You don't remember?

Symonds: No.

FIA adviser: Nelson Piquet Jnr says that he was asked by you to cause a deliberate crash. Is that true?

Symonds: Nelson had spoken to me the day before and suggested that. That's all I'd really like to say.

(...)

FIA adviser: Mr Symonds were you aware that there was going to be crash at Lap 14?

Symonds: I don't want to answer that question.

(...)

FIA adviser: There is just one thing that I ought to ask you and put it to you so you can think about it at least. Mr. Piquet Jnr says that having had the initial meeting with you and Flavio Briatore you then met him individually with the map of the circuit. Do you remember that?

Symonds: I won't answer, rather not answer that. I don't recall it but it sounds like Nelson's talked a lot more about it.

FIA adviser: Mr. Piquet Jnr also says at that meeting you pointed out a specific place on the circuit where he was to have the accident and said it was because it was the furthest away from any of the safety or lifting equipment and gave the most likely chance of a safety car being deployed.

Symonds: I don't, I don't want to answer that question.

FIA adviser: [Referring to the pre-race meeting] Was it you that did the talking at that meeting Mr. Symonds?

Symonds: I'm sure it would have been both of us but I don't know for sure. Sorry that's a contradiction. I would imagine it would be both of us that would be normal. Actually probably more often it's Flavio that does the talking himself. I wouldn't necessarily always agree with what he's saying but the majority.

FIA adviser: Because just to be absolutely clear here what Nelson Piquet Jnr has said is that at that meeting it was you that asked him to have a crash deliberately?

Symonds: I can't answer you.

FIA adviser: Can I say that if Mr. Symonds you'd been put in the position where you were made to ask Mr. Piquet Jnr to crash it's much better, it would be much better for you in the long term to tell these stewards to hear that today?

Symonds: I fully understand that.

FIA adviser: Yes.

Symonds: I have no intention of lying to you. I have not lied to you but I have reserved my position just a little.

FIA adviser: And you're aware that the stewards may draw conclusions from your unwillingness to assist them in relation to what went on in that meeting?

Symonds: I would expect them to. I would absolutely expect that.

FIA adviser: I think I haven't got any further questions.

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Briatore out, Prost in?

It is rumoured that Flavio Briatore will be forced to leave the Renault F1 Team as the managers of the constructor are not satisfied with the way he has been handling the Piquet-situation. This weekend Briatore declared in an interview that he was forced by Piquet Sr. to break-up the relationship of Nelsinho and his 50-year-old friend. The Renault top believes it is not justified that Briatore talks about the personal life of Piquet Jr. despite the whole mud throwing in the race-fix scandal.

It is rumoured that Renault already made contact with Alain Prost to take over from Flavio Briatore who has been on board with the team since the Benetton-days.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 09:47 schreef sasquatsch het volgende:

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Wordt Briatore opgeofferd, om een (grote) straf te voorkomen?

_{net zoals Walkinshaw in 1994 bij Benetton}

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Renault director of engineering Pat Symonds has been offered immunity from punishment by the FIA if he offers full disclosure of the facts surrounding last year's Singapore Grand Prix race-fix allegations.

With less than one week to go before Renault faces the FIA World Motor Sport Council to answer charges that it asked Nelson Piquet to crash deliberately to help Fernando Alonso win, sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that Symonds has been given the chance of an amnesty.

The development comes on the back of interviews between Symonds, FIA representatives and members from the Quest agency at the Belgian Grand Prix where it was deemed his evidence was 'central' to finding answers to what happened in Singapore.

In the stewards' report about that interview, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT, Symonds confirms that the race-day meeting between himself, Briatore and Piquet did take place.

The stewards reports added: "Mr. Symonds accepted that he had discussed with NPJ (Piquet) the possibility of a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, although he said the suggestion was raised by NPJ."

However, Symonds then refused to answer questions about specific allegations about the events that took place that day (see separate story).

It is understood, however, that the reason to offer Symonds immunity has come from the fact that he indicated at the time that he may have further useful information.

The stewards report stated: "Mr. Symonds suggested at his interview on 27 August that he might wish to revert to the Stewards with further information, including information responsive to the various questions he had declined to answer.

"However, no such further information was provided on 27 August. On 28 August, Mr Symonds was summoned back before the Stewards to be asked if he wanted to give further information on the questions he had declined to answer. Mr Symonds again declined to answer the questions."

It is not clear if Symonds has accepted the immunity from punishment offer, but should he do so it means only Renault boss Flavio Briatore will face the FIA's WMSC without any such deal in place. FIA president Max Mosley confirmed at the Italian Grand Prix that Piquet would be exempt too.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 10:10 schreef Tarado het volgende:

knip

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 10:16 schreef Peterselieman het volgende:
Mja, het 14e team is een wassen neus, want het mag dan alleen meedoen als er een plaatsje op de grid vrij is

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 10:17 schreef sasquatsch het volgende:

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Nee, de FIA wil actief kijken of het mogelijk is om het veld op te rekken naar 14 teams volgend jaar (en dan 28 auto's op de grid) zoals ik het lees.

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BMW has announced that the Qadbak Investments company has agreed to purchase the Formula 1 team based in Hinwil.

The German company had revealed earlier this year that it will quit Formula 1 at the end of the season, and had been in talks with interested parties since then.

On Tuesday, BMW said it had signed the contract to sell the team to Qadbak, a Swiss-based foundation which represents the interests of certain Middle East and European-based families.

"A strong investor has therefore been found for the Hinwil-based team," BMW said in a statement.

"Qadbak's interest in the team will be represented by Lionel Fischer, a Swiss national. BMW wishes Qadbak and the Sauber Team every success for the 2010 season and beyond."

The sale of the team coincides with the FIA having announced the 13th entry for the 2010 championship went to the Lotus outfit, with BMW as a possible 14th entry in case a current team fails to race next year.

The FIA also said it would talk to the teams about the possibility of increasing the grid size to 28 cars to allow the Hinwil squad to race next year.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 13:29 schreef Atreidez het volgende:
28 auto's

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 13:48 schreef Peterselieman het volgende:
In mijn ogen kan de FIA bijna niet anders dan 28 auto's op de grid zetten, omdat ze mogelijk net Lotus gekozen hadden toen het nieuws rond BMW Sauber bekend werd. Dat team schop je niet zomaar van de grid af en ze hadden mogelijk ook al een garantie voor 2010. Daarom zal er nog veel gepraat moeten worden om het voor elkaar te krijgen.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 13:50 schreef Tarado het volgende:

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In principe is Sauber cs het enige van de "nieuwe" teams die ook daadwerkelijk een auto hebben. Ik zie er nog wel 1 afvallen

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 13:48 schreef Peterselieman het volgende:
In mijn ogen kan de FIA bijna niet anders dan 28 auto's op de grid zetten, omdat ze mogelijk net Lotus gekozen hadden toen het nieuws rond BMW Sauber bekend werd. Dat team schop je niet zomaar van de grid af en ze hadden mogelijk ook al een garantie voor 2010. Daarom zal er nog veel gepraat moeten worden om het voor elkaar te krijgen.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 15:00 schreef sasquatsch het volgende:

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Omdat BMW het Concorde Agreement niet heeft getekend, had het geen garantie voor 2010 meer. Het op te kopen team zou als een nieuwe inschrijving beschouwd worden en evenveel rechten hebben als de andere inschrijvingen. Dat had de FIA al aangegeven. Alleen spijtig voor BMW dat op dezelfde dag als dat BMW verkocht wordt, ook het nieuwe team bekend gemaakt wordt. Anders hadden ze nog een goede kans gehad denk ik.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 16:11 schreef sanger het volgende:

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BMW heeft wel degelijk de Concorde Agreement ondertekend en zich ingeschreven voor 2010. De FIA heeft de inschrijving volgens mij alleen geweigerd.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 16:11 schreef sanger het volgende:

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BMW heeft wel degelijk de Concorde Agreement ondertekend en zich ingeschreven voor 2010. De FIA heeft de inschrijving volgens mij alleen geweigerd.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 18:21 schreef Tarado het volgende:

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Ze waren gewoon te laat voor de deadline (6 augustus) en hebben zich daarna (20 augustus) alleen als 13e team ingeschreven, maar er waren meer gegadigden

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 18:38 schreef Googolplexian het volgende:
Piquet crash details [PDF]
[ [url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00614/graphic585_614118a.jpg]afbeelding ][/url]
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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 19:14 schreef Googolplexian het volgende:

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Nou ... er waren maar twee mensen + Piquet die er potentieel vanaf wisten, he. De rest van het team reageert natuurlijk verbaasd en bezorgd.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 19:23 schreef nils7 het volgende:

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Ja maar er wordt niet gesproken van "Ey Piquet nog 3 rondjes en dan d'r tegen aan he"

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 09:50 schreef Tarado het volgende:

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Het lijkt nu alleen nog maar om Flavio's kop te gaan, die moet echt in een strop....

Symonds offered race-fix immunity

By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, September 15th 2009, 06:42 GMT
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autosport.com

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 18:38 schreef Googolplexian het volgende:
Piquet crash details [PDF]
[ [url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00614/graphic585_614118a.jpg]afbeelding ][/url]
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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 19:26 schreef ElmarO het volgende:

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Als ze echt van plan waren te crashen, dan hebben ze ongetwijfeld voor de race een codewoord afgesproken die niet al veel zou opvallen. Dus dat je het niet in de transmissie terug ziet/hoort vind ik niet zo heel raar. Zeker niet aangezien de FIA die kan terugluisteren.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 19:35 schreef nils7 het volgende:

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Jah alleen dan is er vrij weinig bewijs buiten dat Piquet roept dat het zo is gegaan en de rest roept dat het niet zo is gegaan!

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 19:34 schreef ArcticBlizzard het volgende:

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Jammer dat ze niet de telemetrie van de ronde(s) ervoor als vergelijking in de grafiek hebben gezet.

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 21:35 schreef Googolplexian het volgende:

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Een jaar van tevoren?

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’m interested in the rights and wrongs of the FIA offering immunity from prosecution to Nelson Piquet and Pat Symonds – but not to Flavio Briatore – in the Singapore crash investigation.
I spoke to a London litigation lawyer this evening and he said that the key points here are that 1) this is not a case in the civil or criminal courts, where, in the UK at least, plea bargaining is not really done. It is subject to the rules of the FIA. I don’t know what it says in the rules on disciplinary hearings and whether it says in there that the FIA has the right to offer plea bargains, but I will look into it; 2) were the FIA onto something anyway when Piquet gave his evidence, in other words did he go to them or did they quiz him first? The history we’ve seen so far seems to suggest that the Piquets started this, in other words the FIA was not on to them. As for offering Symonds immunity, is his offer of immunity to get at the truth generally or specifically to incriminate Briatore, in other words on what terms has Pat been given this immunity?
Offering immunity worked in the case of the Harlequins rugby player who was ordered to fake a blood injury in order to get a specialist kicker onto the pitch. The FIA will have taken note of this.
Earlier today I asked one of our regular readers, Harveyeight, who is an ex CID policeman, to give me his views on the whys and wherefores of granting immunity from prosecution in the Renault case to Nelson Piquet and Pat Symonds.
He has been involved in a lot of investigations and interviews of suspects in the real world and, as someone who has that experience, but is also clearly passionate about F1, I was interested in his view. Here it is:
“My instinct is to say that if you can’t trust anyone to tell the truth without inducements you can’t trust them to tell the truth.
The FIA do not have to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, as explained by Werewolf. So we have the threshold of the balance of probabilities. It you can’t reach that without some kind of prepayment then your case must be pretty weak.
Further, the FIA has protection against a duff decision built-in to the law. To go into pope mode and grant forgiveness of sins without repentance seems an abuse of the protection.
The penalty for Flav, the sponsors, Renault itself and, as you pointed out, the Renault workers, is severe. The decision must be 100% certain. Anything else is a betrayal of the FIA’s responsibility. The innocent victims in all of this cannot be seen as collateral damage.
Further, and this is a personal moral stance I know, ignoring all the political implications which the FIA must have cognisance of, if three people have conspired then they should all be punished.
I had a hero, a detective sergeant who criticised me for my long interviews in order to obtain confessions. He said: If you can’t prove it without a cough, you shouldn’t try and prove it with. It was easy for him because he was a real thieftaker. But the premise is a good one.
Many people have suffered in this matter already. Heaven knows what is going through the minds of the team workers and their families. How will they feel after, perhaps, losing their houses, their kids education, their holidays and their security to see Piquet walk free and back to his life of indulgent luxury? SBS CEO anyone?
I know life is not fair but the FIA have treated Piquet as some kind of hero for, if he is to be believed, keeping stum about the incident for 12 months and then, when galvanised into action by his sacking, eventually got daddy to go to the FIA. Some hero. But some reward, eh?
My personal experience of those offered some kind of deal – never immunity at my level – is that they remain selective in their memory. Informants are one thing, co-conspirators are another. My belief always was that they started lying for their mates and ended up lying against them. Either way, not to be trusted.
You suggest in your question that they are being given immunity for the truth. That’s not quite correct. They are being given immunity for saying what the prosecution wants to hear. A difference, and not a subtle one. Piquet is not an insider, giving evidence against those for whom he worked. This is against, if he is to be believed, those who conspired with him.
So to be rather Micawberish, in short I don’t trust evidence gained by absolution. But, as importantly, if Piquet and Pat have conspired, they should be punished. And severely.”

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Op dinsdag 15 september 2009 22:36 schreef Atreidez het volgende:
Die data van de telemetry heb je niks aan als je ook niet de data hebt van een snelle ronde waarin hij niet crashed

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Op woensdag 16 september 2009 10:15 schreef Fluffy_Augurk het volgende:

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Zeker wel. Kijk er eens goed naar. Wat doe je als coureur als je achterkant uitbreekt? Je laat gas los, of je trapt op je rem. Hij laat eerst instinctief 5% gas los maar trapt hem daarna weer vol in. Het rempedaal raakt hij niet eens aan. Overduidelijk. Overigens staat ongeveer al vast dat hij de crash opzettelijk heeft gedaan (gezien de verklaringen van Symonds). Het gaat er nu meer om wie er allemaal bij betrokken zijn en van wisten.