Vliegtuig Air France Rio de Janeiro - Parijs verdwenen #4

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 11:47 schreef Brighteyes het volgende:

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Er wordt niet mét die telefoon gebeld maar náár die telefoon.
Nabestaanden die de eigenaar van de telefoon bellen dus...

Als de telefoon thuis zou liggen en over zou gaan zouden ze vast wel opnemen denk ik maar zo.

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 11:38 schreef indahnesia.com het volgende:

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Of ze dat ding nu wel of niet vinden maakt niet echt veel meer uit voor het vliegtuig en de pasagiers.

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The 228 people on an Air France flight that disappeared over the Atlantic this morning are now presumed dead—possibly the victim of a lightning strike. Aviation expert Clive Irving on why that’s the most troubling theory of all.

Reports that before it disappeared, Air France Flight 447 encountered a severe electrical storm should not in themselves be ominous. These storms are a familiar hazard. In a plane with the exemplary safety record of the Airbus A330, lightning strikes should not be critical.

However, safety experts will be looking at one slender clue. Around 50 minutes after making its last contact with Brazilian radar, the Airbus sent an automated message that it had an “electrical circuit malfunction.” The airplane was relatively young: It went into service in April 2005. To save maintenance time on the ground, airliners of this generation have vigilant computer monitoring of all systems. Any faults are automatically reported to their destination so that engineers are ready to check them on landing.

In this case, that was the last communication sent. After that, silence.

No airline crash has been caused by lightning in more than 40 years. And before this, no passenger has ever been lost on an Airbus A330. And so if in some way Flight 447 became a victim of an unsuspected vulnerability to electrical storms, this will present investigators with a challenge unlike any before. The hope must be that since the flight path over the Atlantic is known, searchers can find floating wreckage that will provide an answer.

There is another major issue raised by this mystery.

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner, which is about to make its first flight, is the first airliner to be built entirely of composite materials, based on carbon-fiber, not metal. A metal airframe is designed to work as its own lightning conductor. Lightning bolts are dispersed with little more than a flash and a bang.

The 787, however, has no similar capacity to deal with lightning strikes through its major structures. How Boeing has solved this problem is a trade secret, although it is known that wire mesh has been embedded in the composites forming the fuselage, and that metal foils are used in other vulnerable parts of the airframe.

For this reason, the FAA subjected the 787 to a “special condition” examination before it was certified to make its first test flight, due later this month. Because no airliner has ever been built this way before, the 787’s ability to demonstrate a level of lightning protection at least equal to a conventional all-metal airplane is crucial.

The fate of Air France Flight 447 may well, therefore, have urgent implications for both Airbus and Boeing.

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Brutal freak turbulence is the most plausible cause of the crash of Air France Flight 447. If lightning alone caused the crash questions would be asked about the design of the A330, a medium-sized long-range airliner that enjoys a high reputation with the world's airlines.

No major crash has been directly blamed on lightning for more than four decades. Large aircraft are regularly struck by lightning but very rarely suffer damage from the bolt, which passes along the exterior of the fuselage and is diffused into the open air, mainly from small tabs on the trailing edge of the wings. Recent US statistics showed that every commercial aircraft is struck by lightning at least once a year.

The violent turbulence in the heart of storms is a threat to even large aircraft, however. Airliners usually avoid them by flying over or around the biggest ones. Smaller aircraft are from time-to-time torn to pieces in storms or thrown on the ground by them when they are approaching to land or taking off.

The best-known case of turbulence causing a commercial airliner crash was when a BOAC flight from Tokyo to Hong Kong went down near Mount Fuji in 1966 after encountering a storm.

All 113 passengers and 11 crew on board were killed and the subsequent inquiry found the probable cause of the disaster was that “the aircraft suddenly encountered abnormally severe turbulence which imposed a gust load considerably in excess of the design limit.”

The early data from France and Brazil today does not make clear whether the Airbus power failed directly because of lightning or whether the circuits were cut by some catastrophic failure in the aircraft.

All that is known is that the aircraft was in a tropical storm system and that electrics failure was brutal and sudden. It killed all the multiple means by which modern airliners communicate with the ground and prevented the use of back-up power — otherwise the pilots or the automated system would have been able to send a distress message.

Lightning could, for example, cause a fuel tank to explode, as happened on at least one occasion in the 1960s. It is more likely that the extreme turbulence of a tropical storm could have upset the aircraft, causing an uncontrollable descent and an in-flight break-up that would have cut the power. That scenario has been followed by numerous smaller aircraft over the decades. Ronan Hubert, a French airline accident expert, said on French television that this was the likely sequence of events.

All that is known so far is that the automatic data link in the Air France aircraft reported an electrical power loss to the Paris central control, which monitors the company's flights. Over the ocean, the aircraft would not have been tracked by conventional radar. But the aircraft would be reporting its position to controllers at fixed intervals. The information is fed into a central system that provides radar-like tracking. A power failure would interrupt this data flow.

All modern airliners are designed with multiple systems to protect their sensitive electronic systems from lightning discharges that would otherwise cause power surges that would fry their software and blow circuit breakers. To be certified as airworthy, the plane-makers must show the authorities that the aircraft can withstand jolts of electricity equivalent to lightning.

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 12:24 schreef vanhal het volgende:
Wat ik me altijd afvraag bij dit soort dingen: hoeveel vliegtuigen zijn er op dit moment in de lucht? (hoeveel mensen bevinden zich op dit moment in de lucht)? Ben ik gewoon benieuwd naar. 10.000-en?

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Daarbij komt nog eens dat Schiphol jaarlijks ruim 400.000 vliegbewegingen verwerkt en Chicago O’Hare jaarlijks ruim 990.000

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 12:33 schreef Kankerkachelsverkopert het volgende:
'Brokstukken Air France-toestel gevonden'
http://www.nu.nl/algemeen(...)oestel-gevonden.html

Duidelijker bericht dan die op de vorige pagina.

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De bemanning van een Frans vrachtschip zou de brokstukken voor de kust van Senegal gevonden hebben.

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 12:46 schreef Space-Chinees het volgende:

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Ik vraag me af hoeveel km van de kust af dat zal zijn. Ze zijn toch aardig eindje gekomen. En ik neem aan dat voor de kust van Senegal wel bereik van radar is. Ik heb zo´n gevoel dat de piloten ondanks de eletriciteitsproblemen toch nog een heel eind hebben weten te vliegen.

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 12:48 schreef Re het volgende:

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dan hadden ze toch flink wat meer informatie verstuurd dan een enkel berichtje dat er ergens een zekering was gesprongen

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 11:47 schreef Brighteyes het volgende:

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Er wordt niet mét die telefoon gebeld maar náár die telefoon.
Nabestaanden die de eigenaar van de telefoon bellen dus...

Als de telefoon thuis zou liggen en over zou gaan zouden ze vast wel opnemen denk ik maar zo.

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 12:56 schreef MevrouwHopjes83 het volgende:

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Ja dat begrijp ik maar als die overgaat moeten ze het gps signaal toch kunnen vinden?

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 12:52 schreef Space-Chinees het volgende:

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Maar het laatste berichtje was toch een automatisch gegenereerde bericht? Zou het dan niet zijn dat daarna de electriciteit met betrekking tot communicatie (en navigatie) het niet meer deed, maar dat het vliegtuig ondanks nog een eindje kan doorvliegen zonder de mogelijkheid tot het geven van enige vorm van communicatie. Het zal wel een beetje ver gezocht zijn. (of het slaat misschien helemaal nergens op, omdat iemand me zo gaat vertellen dat vliegtuigen niet verder kunnen vliegen zonder electriciteit).

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 13:08 schreef indahnesia.com het volgende:

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Niet alle telefoons hebben GPS.

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 12:37 schreef byah het volgende:

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Dit zijn dus slechts 2 vliegvelden.
Dus het gaat wel richting de 10.000 op dit moment denk ik

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 13:22 schreef fuckbuddy het volgende:

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Die bedoelt denk ik dat alle gsm's traceerbaar zijn

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 13:41 schreef fespo het volgende:
google:
http://radar.zhaw.ch/resources/airtraffic.wmv
A display of all commercial air traffic in the world during a 24-hour period. Also depicts daylight/dark. Fascinating! This animation shows all scheduled flights over a 24h period (based on 2008 data). Every day 93,000 flights are starting from approx. 9,000 airports. At all times there are between 8,000 and 13,000 airplanes in the air. This animation was produced by the Institute of Applied Information Technology (InIT), Zurich University of Applied Sciences.

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 13:41 schreef fespo het volgende:
google:
http://radar.zhaw.ch/resources/airtraffic.wmv
A display of all commercial air traffic in the world during a 24-hour period. Also depicts daylight/dark. Fascinating! This animation shows all scheduled flights over a 24h period (based on 2008 data). Every day 93,000 flights are starting from approx. 9,000 airports. At all times there are between 8,000 and 13,000 airplanes in the air. This animation was produced by the Institute of Applied Information Technology (InIT), Zurich University of Applied Sciences.

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 14:09 schreef vanhal het volgende:
Sjeemienee!

Thx voor het filmpje! Laten we zeggen dat er gemiddeld (voor het gemak) 150 man in een vliegtuig zitten (want behalve passagiersvluchten ook vrachtvluchten), dan heb je dus 'at all times' tussen de 800.000 en 1,2 en 1,9 miljoen mensen in de lucht?

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Op maandag 1 juni 2009 23:12 schreef Swetsenegger het volgende:
Eh nee, aangezien ik post dat bij rampenvluchten méér afzeggingen zijn dan bij 'normale' vluchten. Die verzuipen dus niet.

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Op maandag 1 juni 2009 23:16 schreef trancethrust het volgende:

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En is neergestort in '09: 675-9=666; het is het werk van de duivel!!!.

Of mag aftrekken niet .

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Op dinsdag 2 juni 2009 13:41 schreef fespo het volgende:
google:
http://radar.zhaw.ch/resources/airtraffic.wmv
A display of all commercial air traffic in the world during a 24-hour period. Also depicts daylight/dark. Fascinating! This animation shows all scheduled flights over a 24h period (based on 2008 data). Every day 93,000 flights are starting from approx. 9,000 airports. At all times there are between 8,000 and 13,000 airplanes in the air. This animation was produced by the Institute of Applied Information Technology (InIT), Zurich University of Applied Sciences.