Israel-Hamas nr 53. As van het Kwaad of Heilig Land?

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 10:37 schreef Verluste het volgende:

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Dit heeft niks met dit topic te maken, modjes edit svp.

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 07:44 schreef Tiesemans het volgende:

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Two million Black African Sudanese have been killed, maimed, enslaved, and such resisting this forced Arabization; and nothing further needs to be said regarding similar attitudes Arabs have had regarding the mere thought of kilab yahud Jews--half of whom were refugees themselves from Arab/Muslim lands--having any such political rights in the Dar al-Islam.

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Yet the problem is even worse than it first appears.

Berbers and Kurds, for example, had largely been converted to Islam.
They're Muslims...It turns out that that was still not enough.
Those same Arabs who propagandize today about "racist Zionists" saw/see themselves as the only fit rulers in the region....even over fellow, but non-Arab, Muslims.
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This truly racist attitude helped to lead to the Abbasid Revolution and the uprising of the non-Arab (particularly Iranian) Mawali populations centuries earlier.
And it had subsequent implications for the largely ethnic divide between Sunni and Shia Islam as well.

_{When, in 1922, the British divided the original land of the Mandate for Palestine they received on April 25, 1920 so that all of the territory east of the Jordan River was excluded from the Jews (an act Emir Abdullah attributed to Allah in his memoirs) -- 80% of the total area-- a story has it that Jabotinsky remained silent. Many, including the British, expected "otherwise," to say the least. Later, when he was asked why he did not speak up after Colonial Secretary Churchill's machinations, he explained that he wanted to prove the same point that Ehud Barak's offer at Camp David and Taba seventy-eight years later did: It didn't matter to Arabs how big a Jewish State was. Any Israel, regardless of size, would not be tolerated.}

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Ps free Palestina ? Dat is net zo iets dubieus als Free Holland from the Arabs want we weten allemaal wie er in Palestina wonen en de baas zijn en nooit meer weg gaan omdat ze er horen !!

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Palestinians: 8 wounded in IAF strike in southern Gaza Strip

Eight Palestinians were reported wounded in the southern Gaza Strip Thursday when the IAF struck a motorbike in the town of Khan Yunis. Among the wounded were several children.

The strike targeted 25-year-old Mahmoud Hamdan Samiri, a Khan Yunis resident involved in the terrorist cell behind Tuesday's attack at the Kissufim crossing. In the attack, a roadside bomb killed one IDF soldier and wounded three others.

The air strike followed the firing of a Kassam rocket which on Thursday morning fell in an open area near the town of Sderot.

No one was wounded in the rocket attack and no damage was reported. It was the second rocket fired into Israel since the end of Operation Cast Lead eleven days ago.

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Hamas: We will accept long-term truce if Gaza borders opened

Senior Hamas officials are indicating a willingness to negotiate a deal for a long-term truce with Israel as long as the borders of Gaza are opened to the rest of the world.

"We want to be part of the international community," Hamas leader Ghazi Hamad told The Associated Press this week at the Gaza-Egypt border, where he was coordinating Arab aid shipments. "I think Hamas has no interest now to increase the number of crises in Gaza or to challenge the world."

Hamas is trying hard to flex its muscles in the aftermath of Israel's three-week-long offensive in the Gaza Strip, doling out cash, vowing revenge and declaring victory over "Zionist aggression."

But AP interviews with Hamad and two other Hamas leaders in the war-ravaged territory they rule suggest some of that might be more bluster than reality - and the group may be ready for some serious deal making.

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 12:44 schreef Triggershot het volgende:
Ik wou effe zeggen dat ik van Damian en Viajero hou, beiden discussiëren zeer beschaafd en goed.

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Sp.a neemt afstand van Anciaux na uitspraak over Gaza en Dendermonde

Sp.a-voorzitter Caroline Gennez laat weten dat haar partij zich distantieert van de uitspraken van haar partijgenoot en Vlaams minister Bert Anciaux over Gaza en het drama in Dendermonde. Eerder deed ook de federale regering dat bij monde van minister van Buitenlandse Zaken Karel De Gucht.

Boze reactie Israëlische ambassade

De Israëlische ambassade in Brussel haalde ook al zwaar uit naar Anciaux. "Hij demoniseert Israël en brengt het conflict naar de straten van de Belgische steden. Dit was een roekeloze uitspraak, zeker gezien het geweld tegen joden na het conflict in Gaza. Het is een belediging voor de families van de slachtoffers in Dendermonde en voor de joodse staat", klinkt het keihard op de Israëlische ambassade in Brussel.

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"Hier gaat het over 15 slachtoffers, waarvan 14 kindjes. Het choqueert ons allemaal. Ik moest ook denken aan de honderden dode kinderen in de Gazastrook, ook bewust door een agressor omgebracht en zonder dat die agressor opgepakt werd" www.bertanciaux.be

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 12:44 schreef Triggershot het volgende:
Ik wou effe zeggen dat ik van Damian en Viajero hou, beiden discussiëren zeer beschaafd en goed.

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 11:23 schreef Viajero het volgende:
Ik ben benieuwd hoeveel topics vol zouden lopen als Israel een lijst met goedgekeurde Joodse namen invoert. Als een Arabisch-Israelisch kind ineens niet meer Mohamed mag heten maar iets als Chaim of Yitzhak moet kiezen. Ik vraag me ook af hoeveel mensen dan apartheid zouden lopen roepen.

Dit is het zoveelste bewijs dat Israel de hoogste standaard moet houden en Arabische landen kunnen doen wat ze willen zonder serieuze kritiek van "mensenrechtenverdedigers".

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 13:09 schreef moussie het volgende:

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Als je jezelf die standaard aanmeet wordt je daarna gemeten, zo vreemd is dat toch niet ?

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 11:18 schreef SilkTie het volgende:

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Wannabee mod .

Er staat toch duidelijk ook:
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Toch redelijk relevante dingen voor dit topic, misschien niet direct Hamas gerelateerd maar wel over het conflict Israel-Palestina en het conflicht Islam-niet-Islam w.o. ook Joden.

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 13:12 schreef damian5700 het volgende:

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Ik begrijp de bedenkingen ook helemaal niet bij de beschouwing dat Hamas en terroristische organisatie is.

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 13:09 schreef moussie het volgende:

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Als je jezelf die standaard aanmeet wordt je daarna gemeten, zo vreemd is dat toch niet ?

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 13:23 schreef Viajero het volgende:

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dat vind ik wel, om twee redenen:

- De Arabische landen adverteren zichzelf ook niet met "De brute dictatuur Syrie" of "De barbaarse kleptocratie Egypte". Officieel meten zij zich ook die standaard aan, de meeste hebben de Verklaring van de Rechten van de Mens getekend. Dan lijkt het mij dat we ze daar ook aan mogen houden.

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- Zelfs als een land tegen de wereld zegt: wij doen lekker wat we zelf willen, inclusief martelen, moorden etc.
Is het dan ineens prima omdat ze het zeggen?

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 14:14 schreef moussie het volgende:

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en die landen krijgen dan ook aan alle kanten kritiek, tenzij het economisch of geopolitiek beter uitkomt om de schendingen te negeren .. en daarmee doel ik oa op de militaire steun die SA van de States ontvangt
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nee, natuurlijk niet .. maar dit topic gaat over Israël en Gaza, niet over Darfur en wat de moslims daar doen, of over de Berbers, of .. ..
Als iedereen zijn eigen schendingen gaat goed praten met : ja maar hunnie doen het ook, dan kunnen we al die verdragen toch net zo goed meteen opdoeken ?

Wat dat aangaat ben ik btw heel blij met de nieuwe wind in Amerika, terug naar 'practice what you preach' ipv 'do as I say not as I do'

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 11:18 schreef SilkTie het volgende:

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Wannabee mod .

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 14:33 schreef Viajero het volgende:

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Niet van de media, niet van politici. Grote onzin wat je nu zegt. De US is inderdaad smerig bezig in KSA, maar dat neemt niet weg dat de aandacht voor Israel onevenredig is.
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Het is niet: hunnie doen het ook, het is: hunnie doen veel ergere dingen en niemand die er naar omkijkt. En dat is gewoon hypocrisie, helaas vaak vermengd met een behoorlijke scheut Jodenhaat.

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Veolia looses 3,5 billion EUR contract in Sweden

Today the Stockholm community council in Sweden announced that the French company Veolia, which has been the current operator of the subway’s in Stockholm County for the past ten years lost the contract to the MTR-cooperation.

The contracts for the coming eight years are worth 3,5 Billion Euro and has been the biggest ongoing public contract procurement process in Europe.

Although the board for the Stockholm county’s public transportation (SL) ensured that the decision was based solely on commercial factors, the debate about Veolias involvement in a controversial tramway project in Jerusalem (Jerusalem light railway) has been intense in Swedish media.

The tramway connecting the Israeli west Jerusalem with illegal Israeli settlements on occupied Palestinian territory has triggered discussions about Veolia’s ethical policy. Public protests in Sweden against Veolia has brought the attention to the dilemma of operating public services when you at he same time are involved in politically controversial activities.

As late as the day before the decision the Stockholm community council received lists with thousands of signatories from people demanding the council to choose an operator who was associated with violations against international humanitarian law.

– This is clearly another sign of the importance for commercial actors not to have their brand associated to unethical behaviour, in the case of illegal settlements on occupied Palestinian territory we can already see a trend of international companies who are moving out their operations from settlements, says Joakim Wohlfeil at the Swedish development organization Diakonia.

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Starbucks slashes jobs and stores

Coffeeshop giant Starbucks has announced it will cut around 6,700 jobs and shut 300 stores as it reported a 69% plunge in quarterly profit.

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US academicians launch national campaign for Israel boycott

A group of American university professors has for the first time launched on last Thursday a national campaign calling for an academic and cultural boycott of Israel, following the boycott of Canada's Ontario's university workers committee.

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 19:18 schreef NorthernStar het volgende:

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 19:22 schreef Verluste het volgende:

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wtf heeft Starbucks ermee te maken? xD

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 19:22 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Nou, misschien dat cultureel en academisch Israël wel ophoudt met agressie en geweld en onderdrukking, . Trieste actie.

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 19:22 schreef Monidique het volgende:
Nou, misschien dat cultureel en academisch Israël wel ophoudt met agressie en geweld en onderdrukking, . Trieste actie.

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 21:38 schreef buachaille het volgende:
Ik wens alle mensen in dit filmpje toe wat men de ander toewenst:

War Protests or Pro-Hamas Hate Rallies?

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Turkish PM walks off stage over Gaza


DAVOS, Switzerland -- Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan stalked off the stage at the World Economic Forum red-faced after verbally sparring with Israeli President Shimon Peres over the fighting in Gaza.

The episode came Thursday after a lengthy debate about the recent fighting in Gaza that claimed about 1,300 Palestinian lives.

Erdogan was flustered after he tried to speak as the scheduled session was ending at the forum in Davos, Switzerland, asking the moderator, Washington Post columnist David Ignatius, to let him speak once more.


"Only a minute," Ignatius replied.

Erdogan said that "I remember two former prime ministers in your country who said they felt very happy when they were able to enter Palestine on tanks," he said in Turkish.

"I find it very sad that people applaud what you said. There have been many people killed. And I think that it is very wrong and it is not humanitarian," he said.

Ignatius said "We can't start the debate again. We just don't have time."

Erdogan said "Please let me finish." Ignatius responded "We really do need to get people to dinner."

The Turkish premier then said, "Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I don't think I will come back to Davos after this."

The confrontation saw Peres and Ergodan raise their voice shouting - highly unusual at the elite gathering of corporate and world leaders, which is usually marked by learned consensus seeking and polite dialogue. It showed how emotions remain frayed over Israel's offensive against Hamas that ended less than two weeks ago.

The packed audience at the Ergodan and Peres session, which included President Obama's close adviser Valerie Jarrett, appeared stunned.

Afterward, forum founder Klaus Schwab huddled with Erdogan in a corner of the Congress Center. A press conference with both men was scheduled for 8:30 p.m. (1930 GMT)

"I have know Shimon Peres for many years and I also know Erdogan. I have never seen Shimon Peres so passionate as he was today. I think he felt Israel was being attacked by so many in the international community. He felt isolated," said former Norwegian Prime Minister Kjell Magne Bondevik said.

"I was very sad that Ergodan left. This was an expression of how difficult this situation is."

Amr Moussa, the former Egyptian foreign minister who now leads the Arab League, said Ergodan's action was understandable. "Mr. Ergodan said what he wanted to say and then he left. That's all. He was right." Of Israel, he said, "They don't listen."

Ergodan brushed past reporters outside the hall. His wife appeared upset. "All Peres said was a lie. It was unacceptable," she said, eyes glistening.

Earlier in the day, the leader of Israel's conservative Likud Party lambasted Iran for allegedly seeking nuclear weapons and supporting Hamas. Iran denies it has plans to obtain nuclear weapons, but Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu insisted that it is in a race to make nuclear weapons, and that poses a greater danger to the world than the current economic crisis.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGANDAN DAVOS ZIRVESINDE PERESE TOKAT GÄ°BÄ° CEVAP

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Account of Israeli attack doesn't hold up to scrutiny

JABALYA, GAZA STRIP — Most people remember the headlines: Massacre Of Innocents As UN School Is Shelled; Israeli Strike Kills Dozens At UN School.

They heralded the tragic news of Jan. 6, when mortar shells fired by advancing Israeli forces killed 43 civilians in the Jabalya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip. The victims, it was reported, had taken refuge inside the Ibn Rushd Preparatory School for Boys, a facility run by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency.

The news shocked the world and was compared to the 1996 Israeli attack on a UN compound in Qana, Lebanon, in which more than 100 people seeking refuge were killed. It was certain to hasten the end of Israel's attack on Gaza, and would undoubtedly lead the list of allegations of war crimes committed by Israel.

There was just one problem: The story, as etched in people's minds, was not quite accurate.



Physical evidence and interviews with several eyewitnesses, including a teacher who was in the schoolyard at the time of the shelling, make it clear: While a few people were injured from shrapnel landing inside the white-and-blue-walled UNRWA compound, no one in the compound was killed. The 43 people who died in the incident were all outside, on the street, where all three mortar shells landed.

Stories of one or more shells landing inside the schoolyard were inaccurate.

While the killing of 43 civilians on the street may itself be grounds for investigation, it falls short of the act of shooting into a schoolyard crowded with refuge-seekers.

The teacher who was in the compound at the time of the shelling says he heard three loud blasts, one after the other, then a lot of screaming. "I ran in the direction of the screaming [inside the compound]," he said. "I could see some of the people had been injured, cut. I picked up one girl who was bleeding by her eye, and ran out on the street to get help."But when I got outside, it was crazy hell. There were bodies everywhere, people dead, injured, flesh everywhere."

The teacher, who refused to give his name because he said UNRWA had told the staff not to talk to the news media, was adamant: "Inside [the compound] there were 12 injured, but there were no dead."

"Three of my students were killed," he said. "But they were all outside."

Hazem Balousha, who runs an auto-body shop across the road from the UNRWA school, was down the street, just out of range of the shrapnel, when the three shells hit. He showed a reporter where they landed: one to the right of his shop, one to the left, and one right in front.

"There were only three," he said. "They were all out here on the road."

News of the tragedy travelled fast, with aid workers and medical staff quoted as saying the incident happened at the school, the UNRWA facility where people had sought refuge.

Soon it was presented that people in the school compound had been killed. Before long, there was worldwide outrage.

Sensing a public-relations nightmare, Israeli spokespeople quickly asserted that their forces had only returned fire from gunmen inside the school. (They even named two militants.) It was a statement from which they would later retreat, saying there were gunmen in the vicinity of the school.

No witnesses said they saw any gunmen. (If people had seen anyone firing a mortar from the middle of the street outside the school, they likely would not have continued to mill around.)

John Ging, UNRWA's operations director in Gaza, acknowledged in an interview this week that all three Israeli mortar shells landed outside the school and that "no one was killed in the school."

"I told the Israelis that none of the shells landed in the school," he said.

Why would he do that?

"Because they had told everyone they had returned fire from gunmen in the school. That wasn't true."

Mr. Ging blames the Israelis for the confusion over where the victims were killed. "They even came out with a video that purported to show gunmen in the schoolyard. But we had seen it before," he said, "in 2007."

The Israelis are the ones, he said, who got everyone thinking the deaths occurred inside the school.

"Look at my statements," he said. "I never said anyone was killed in the school. Our officials never made any such allegation."

Speaking from Shifa Hospital in Gaza City as the bodies were being brought in that night, an emotional Mr. Ging did say: "Those in the school were all families seeking refuge. ... There's nowhere safe in Gaza."

And in its daily bulletin, the World Health Organization reported: "On 6 January, 42 people were killed following an attack on a UNRWA school ..."

The UN's Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs got the location right, for a short while. Its daily bulletin cited "early reports" that "three artillery shells landed outside the UNRWA Jabalia Prep. C Girls School ..." However, its more comprehensive weekly report, published three days later, stated that "Israeli shelling directly hit two UNRWA schools ..." including the one at issue.

Such official wording helps explain the widespread news reports of the deaths in the school, but not why the UN agencies allowed the misconception to linger.

"I know no one was killed in the school," Mr. Ging said. "But 41 innocent people were killed in the street outside the school. Many of those people had taken refuge in the school and wandered out onto the street.

"The state of Israel still has to answer for that. What did they know and what care did they take?"

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 22:18 schreef dvdfreak het volgende:

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RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGANDAN DAVOS ZIRVESINDE PERESE TOKAT GÄ°BÄ° CEVAP

Erdogan held tenminste iemand die het durft ze zeggen

Basbakan Erdogan'in Davos'taki Basin Toplantisi...(english)

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 21:38 schreef buachaille het volgende:
Ik wens alle mensen in dit filmpje toe wat men de ander toewenst:

War Protests or Pro-Hamas Hate Rallies?

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 22:43 schreef Mylene het volgende:

[...]While a few people were injured from shrapnel landing inside the white-and-blue-walled UNRWA compound, no one in the compound was killed. The 43 people who died in the incident were all outside, on the street, where all three mortar shells landed.

Stories of one or more shells landing inside the schoolyard were inaccurate.

John Ging, UNRWA's operations director in Gaza, acknowledged in an interview this week that all three Israeli mortar shells landed outside the school and that "no one was killed in the school."[...]

bron

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The Israeli Defense Forces said that their troops had fired several mortar shells near the school in response to mortar fire from the school compound.

“They shot back to save their own lives,” said Ilan Tal, an Israeli military spokesman and a brigadier general in the reserves. Among the dead, the military said in a statement, were “Hamas terrorist operatives and a mortar battery cell.”

The military identified two Hamas operatives, Imad Abu Asker and Hassan Abu Asker, as having been killed.

A young witness from Jabaliya, Ibrahim Amen, 16, said that he had seen one of the militants, whom he identified as Abu Khaled Abu Asker, in the area of the school right before the attack.

Ibrahim said he saw the militant after he answered calls for volunteers to pile sand around the camp “to help protect the resistance fighters.” Ibrahim went to pile sand near the school with his brother, Iyad, 20, who was then injured by the Israeli mortar fire. Bron

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Sensing a public-relations nightmare, Israeli spokespeople quickly asserted that their forces had only returned fire from gunmen inside the school. (They even named two militants.) It was a statement from which they would later retreat, saying there were gunmen in the vicinity of the school.

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U.S. envoy to UN calls on Israel to investigate Gaza war crimes claims

Israel must investigate allegations that its army violated international law during its three-week war against Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip, the new U.S. envoy to the United Nations said on Thursday.

"We expect Israel will meet its international obligations to investigate and we also call upon all members of the international community to refrain from politicizing these important issues," Ambassador Susan Rice said in her debut speech before the UN Security Council.

Rice said that Hamas had been guilty of violating international law "through its rocket attacks against Israeli civilians in southern Israel and the use of civilian facilities to provide protection for its terrorist attacks."

"There have also been numerous allegations made against Israel some of which are deliberately designed to inflame," she told the council during a meeting on international humanitarian law.

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'Iran and Syria trying to replace PLO'

The Palestinian Authority on Thursday accused Iran and Syria of encouraging Hamas and other radical groups to establish a new leadership that would challenge the PLO's claim to be the "sole and legitimate" representative of the Palestinians.

The PA is an organ of the PLO.

The PA fears that the potential new leadership, which would be headed by Hamas chief Khaled Mashaal, would be recognized by several Islamic governments that are unhappy with President Mahmoud Abbas.

The PA is also worried because the idea of replacing the PLO is being backed by prominent Arab political analysts, newspaper editors and even veteran Fatah leader Farouk Kaddoumi.

Abbas, who met with US Middle East envoy George Mitchel in Ramallah, warned that any attempt to create an alternative leadership to the PLO would "consolidate divisions" among the Palestinians.

Mashaal on Wednesday surprised the PA by announcing that the current circumstances require the Palestinians to start thinking about the creation of a new leadership that would represent all Palestinians.

The PLO was no longer the legitimate representative of the Palestinians "because of its role in deepening divisions among the Palestinians," he said.

His declaration has won the backing of all the Damascus-based Palestinian groups, including Islamic Jihad and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command headed by Ahmed Jibril.

Mashaal's statement has been interpreted by PA and Fatah officials in the West Bank as "the most serious challenge to the PLO since its founding.

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Op donderdag 29 januari 2009 12:44 schreef Triggershot het volgende:
Ik wou effe zeggen dat ik van Damian en Viajero hou, beiden discussiëren zeer beschaafd en goed.

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Gaza victims describe human shield use

Members of a Gaza family whose farm was turned into a "fortress" by Hamas fighters have reported that they were helpless to stop Hamas from using them as human shields.

They told the official Palestinian Authority daily newspaper that for years Hamas had used their property and homes as military installations from which the group would launch rockets into Israel, dig tunnels and store arms. According to the victims, those who tried to object were shot in the legs by Hamas operatives.

Palestinian Media Watch quoted the official Palestinian Authority daily, Al-Hayat al-Jadida as reporting on January 27, "The Abd Rabbo family kept quiet while Hamas fighters turned their farm in the Gaza strip into a fortress. Right now they are waiting for the aid promised by the [Hamas] movement after Israel bombed the farm and turned it into ruins."

According to the report, the hill on which the Abd Rabbo family lives overlooks Sderot, making it an ideal military position for Hamas fighters.

The Abd Rabbo family members emphasized to the paper that they were not Hamas activists and that they were still loyal to the Fatah movement, but that they had been unable to prevent the armed squads from entering their neighborhood at night.

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Palestinians call to ban BBC from Gaza

A large group of Palestinians has signed a petition calling to ban the BBC from operating in the Gaza Strip because of the broadcaster's refusal to air a charity appeal for the victims of Operation Cast Lead.
BBC studios

This was the first time that Palestinians called for boycotting the BBC - a station which they had regularly considered to be biased in favor of the Palestinians and Arabs.

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Op vrijdag 30 januari 2009 11:32 schreef damian5700 het volgende:
Wat een gevolg van de Turkse opstelling kan zijn als de zienswijzen van de Turkse president nog scherper en ook bij herhaling worden door hem worden neergezet Turkije zijn rol als gematigde mediator zal verliezen.
Daar is de gehele regio niet bij gebaat als dat gebeurt.

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Op vrijdag 30 januari 2009 11:49 schreef Viajero het volgende:

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Ik denk juist dat dit hem geloofwaardiger maakt in de ogen van de Arabieren. Een mediator moet voor beide partijen aanvaardbaar zijn. En ik denk dat de Israelis dit ook wel door hebben. Ik hoop het in elk geval.

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Op vrijdag 30 januari 2009 11:54 schreef damian5700 het volgende:

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Erdogan was al aanvaardbaar voor Arabieren. Ik denk alleen dat wanneer de Turkse relatie met Israël snel verslechterd zij haar rol als bemiddelaar inruilt voor een belanghebbende partij.
Zover is het natuurlijk nog lang niet, maar de relatie is binnen een paar weken flink achteruit gegaan.

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Op vrijdag 30 januari 2009 11:36 schreef damian5700 het volgende:

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Op vrijdag 30 januari 2009 12:21 schreef Verluste het volgende:

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Wat wordt die belanghebbende partij dan denk je??

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Op vrijdag 30 januari 2009 14:26 schreef voyeur het volgende:

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Het is toch (helaas) vrij gangbaar dat huizen gebruikt worden gebruikt worden voor militaire doeleinden. Het IDF doet dat toch precies zo?

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Op vrijdag 30 januari 2009 14:26 schreef voyeur het volgende:

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Het is toch (helaas) vrij gangbaar dat huizen gebruikt worden gebruikt worden voor militaire doeleinden. Het IDF doet dat toch precies zo?

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Op vrijdag 30 januari 2009 14:57 schreef PhysicsRules het volgende:

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Ik heb al veel al dan niet valse beschuldigingen aan het adres van het IDF gehoord, maar nog niet dat ze huizen en gebouwen van Palestijnen gebruiken om vanuit te schieten op Hamas.

Het punt is dat Hamas bewust burgerdoelen gebruikt om aanvallen van Israel op burgers uit te lokken. Het is een strategie waar ze zelfs trots op zijn. Het is ook niet erg, want die burgers worden dan martelaren [sic]!

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Op vrijdag 30 januari 2009 14:57 schreef PhysicsRules het volgende:

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Ik heb al veel al dan niet valse beschuldigingen aan het adres van het IDF gehoord, maar nog niet dat ze huizen en gebouwen van Palestijnen gebruiken om vanuit te schieten op Hamas.

Het punt is dat Hamas bewust burgerdoelen gebruikt om aanvallen van Israel op burgers uit te lokken. Het is een strategie waar ze zelfs trots op zijn. Het is ook niet erg, want die burgers worden dan martelaren [sic]!