"Jap Style" Toyota Celica Coup Deel III

quote:

Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 00:52 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:
Als je een 7M-GTE in die Celica wil swappen moet je em dus ook converten naar RWD, heb je al nagedacht hoe je dat wilt gaan doen?

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Op vrijdag 25 mei 2007 23:09 schreef Asmooh het volgende:

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Dat is zeker zo, maar het is een erg goed en stabiel blok.
Vast niet voor altijd, maar dat hou je met autos..

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:21 schreef MikeyMan het volgende:

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Dat kun je echt van elk toyotablok zeggen... Maar die 7m blinkt wel uit in -relatieve- onbetrouwbaarheid...

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:22 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:

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Klopt.
Maar met de aanpassingen die iedereen ondertussen wel kent is het helemaal geen slecht blok.

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:23 schreef Asmooh het volgende:

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haha, het algemene aanpassings formulier voor je 7M

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:24 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:

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Daar komt het wel op neer ja.
Ze hebben allemaal dezelfde problemen en op internet worden die problemen 328498347329874x uitgemolken

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:26 schreef MikeyMan het volgende:

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Terecht ook...
Hadden ze maar "fiat" op het blok moeten persen

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:27 schreef Asmooh het volgende:
ps. check deze

http://www.autofans.nl/leden.php?userid=190

en btw: "Jap Style" Toyota Celica Coup Deel III

quote:

Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:29 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:
Ik ben benieuwd of het gaat lukken, die 7M swap.
In principe kan alles natuurlijk maar je moet er wel de skills, geld en de tijd voor hebben..

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:32 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:

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In die auto zit een 3S-GTE...
of doel je ergens anders op met je linkje?

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:34 schreef Asmooh het volgende:

Jammer dat de 7M-GTE al standaard 330pk heeft (MK4 versie) MK3 versie heeft 235, maar is zonder geouwehoer en teveel geld op de 350 te krijgen op de 400 ook maar dan ga je iets verder met geld, turbo charger enzow

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:43 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:

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In een MK4 zit geen 7M maar 2JZ motor
Verder is de 300 halen niet alleen afhankelijk van het vermogen maar ook je ophanging, aerodynamica en ga zo maar door.

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7M-GTE DOHC 4/50 86-92 2954 230@5600 240@4000 3.27 3.58 8.4:1 (HKS: 5psi/0.35bar)
7M-GTE DOHC 4/50 90 2954 232@5600 254@3200 83 91 8.4:1 5psi/0.35bar US/EU
7M-GTE DOHC 4/50 90 2954* 236@5600 253@3200 83 91 8.4:1 5psi/0.35bar JP
7M-GTE DOHC 4/50 90 2954* 265@5600 264@4400 83 91 8.4:1 Evolution version (larger turbo)

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2JZ-GTE DOHC 4 93- 2997 320@5800 315@4000 86 86
2JZ-GTE DOHC 4 95-96 2997* (280)@5600 320@3600 86 86 JP (voluntary 280hp limit, real hp ~320)
2JZ-GTE DOHC 4 97-98 2997* (280)@5600 335@3600 86 86 8.5:1 VVT-i JP Supra, Aristo (voluntary 280hp limit, real hp ~350)

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7M-GTE I6 DOHC 4/45deg 87-88 2954 490@6800 449@4400 86.3 91 7.6:1 Group A, Toyota turbo

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3S-GT I4 DOHC 4 97 1998 480@6800 471@4500 86 86 All Japan GTCC, 45.3mm restrictor

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7M-GE I6 DOHC 4/45deg 87-88 2954 260@6600 229@5800 86.3 91 11.3:1 Group A

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3S-GTE I4 DOHC 4 97-98 1998 300@5700 377@4000 86 86 8.5:1 Group A, Air/air IC, CT20

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7M-GTE 230hp HKS: max 450hp
3 liters + turbo = lots of power to be unleashed!
Beyond about 350hp turbo upgrade is A Good Idea.
Many people have achieved 550-650hp while keeping it
streetable. But do retorque the head gasket! 90% of
problems with these engines come down to the head
gaskets, which blow because the head bolt tension
is too low. See supras.com for more info.

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:48 schreef Asmooh het volgende:

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oh ik zat verkeerd te kijken mijn fout
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ik zat te slapen, mijn fout

en ik weet het maar daarom wil ik het wel een keer halen, tis zeg maar een doel

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:48 schreef Asmooh het volgende:
weet jij btw wat ze met de 7M hebben uitgevreten?
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hier boven een paar voorbeelden van de "race" engines


rare is btw, op die site staat "4" maar de 7M heeft echt 6 cylinders?


http://www.geocities.com/(...)GasolineEngines.html
http://www.geocities.com/(...)t/RacingEngines.html

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:57 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:

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soms heb je dat hč
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Bij de 7M staat 6I (6 inline) wat klopt en bij de 3S 4 wat ook klopt..
en alle M motoren zijn altijd 6 in lijn motoren. Dus alles klopt

die Supra Group A is ook wel geinig trouwens, dat type was een "homologatie type"

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Blown another headgasket? This is a complete kit to change out your factory headgasket to upgraded items in order to help keep your motors head under control when you're driving it like you stole it! The kit contains a Titan 1.4mm Metal Head Gasket, ARP Head Bolts, and a Greddy Timing Belt. Already blown a few gaskets and had the head machined? Then, check out the drop down menu for a thicker gasket. And if you need something stronger than upgraded bolts to lock down that headgasket make sure to choose the ARP Head

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:59 schreef Asmooh het volgende:

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alsje bij de gasoline kijkt staat er weer 4?
of kijk ik nou scheef?

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M series (inline 6, SOHC & DOHC (pre-80) chain, DOHC (82-) belt, 2.0-3.0L, 1965-1992): Crown, Celica Supra, Supra

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:59 schreef Asmooh het volgende:
btw..

als 90% het head gasket het probleem is bij hoge vermogens (500+ hp)
waarom vervangen ze die dan niet gewoon voor iets veel beters?
[..]

quote:

7M-GE to GE/T Conversion By Bryson Kriz

1.1 Introduction:

My car started its life as a Naturally Aspirated MA70 Supra, with modest modifications. After researching possible ways to find power in the 7M engine, not many options were out there for the GE trim. With most of the basic bolt on’s, it was a fairly quick car, but still lacked power to keep up to newer and modified sports cars. Aggressive camshafts, headwork, and possibly some sort of injection would be needed to achieve this. After looking into it more, not many options were available that still kept my car a semi-daily driver. At the end of Fall 2002, my car’s temperature gauge started to rise and what not. After developing various problems (later on I discovered that my distributor was on its way out), I parked the car for the winter and started gathering parts to do a conversion. A headgasket and clutch later, I managed to produce a car that I can drive everyday and still put down over 325 horsepower at the crank with basic modifications. When you hear about someone converting their car from an N/A to a Turbo, there are a few different ways to approach this:

1. 7M-GE to 7M-GTE Engine swap – Involves swapping the entire engine with wiring harness, ECU, transmission occasionally, and other various parts into the GE body. Very common trend due to ease of swap, lack of custom fabrication, and costs. Recommend to users with low/moderate knowledge of the 7M engine and slightly higher knowledge of mechanics in general.

2. 7M-GE to 7M-GE/T with GTE electronics – This is what my project involves. Keeping the GE head and block, I transferred over all of the mechanical and electronic portions of the GTE. End product is basically a GTE with the GE block/head, resulting in higher compression. More customization can be done this way (oil lines, filter, cooler, piping, compression, etc) but involves more fabrication of parts and a much higher price tag. Recommended to users with moderate/high knowledge of 7M engine , slightly higher knowledge of mechanics in general, and a higher knowledge of custom fabrication.

3. 7M-GE to 7M-GE/T with GE electronics – This is the most cost effective setup out there for N/A drivers, though I do not recommend it. This involves transferring the mechanical parts such as the turbo and intercooler to the GE engine while keeping the electronics (AFM, Distributor, Injectors, ECU, etc) in place. It can be done with a relatively low knowledge of mechanics and the 7M engine, but do not expect this setup to last long. Without extensive tuning and fuel management, the idea of a daily driver is thrown out the window. Only recommended for the serious user (if so, you should not even be reading this ) or someone who likes to experiment (aka blow up) with engines. Minimal price tag in the short term, larger price tag in the long term.

After studying each option, I chose the 2nd choice due to the fact it was one of the most sensible options next to an entire engine swap, and gave me a bit more flexibility in this project, and mostly, something unique.

1.2 Gathering Parts

This can either turn out to be one of the most time consuming, or quickest parts of the project. The best is to find a 7M-GTE that’s developing BHG (Blown Head Gasket), or has some sort of damage to the rear end. Either way, don’t start with a car that has 200k miles on it and has failing parts. Each of these options gives you a relatively good engine with minimal damage for a low price. You may think the initial price of buying a parts car is too high, but after tracking down all the parts individually, it adds up. If you can’t find a parts car, look for parts that come from a reputable source. Someone claiming a great CT-26 turbo with fast and furious stickers on E-Bay with a zero feedback rating is probably something you should stay away from. Now is a good time to think about some of the possible goals for the car. 550cc injectors could be bought at this point to save yourself from finding used 440cc stock turbo injectors and so on. Due to the price tag of these aftermarket parts and the current price tag of the project, this might not be realistic. I started out with 440cc / stock AFM / stock intercooler with my project, due to a lack of funds at the time.

1.3 Parts list from the GTE engine

Here is a list of the parts you need to locate off of a 7M-GTE engine. Try and stick to the same year (87-88/89-92) for your parts. Some things such as the wiring harness and ECU need to be the same year/model to work as well. Safest way to avoid complications is just to find the same year parts for the major electronic pieces. Items with a year in front of them indicate these types of parts. 1989 is the year used for example:

· 1989 GTE 5spd ECU

· 1989 GTE 5spd Wiring Harness

· GTE CPS (cam position sensor)

· GTE Coil Pack

· GTE Igniter

· GTE AFM

· CT-26 Stock Turbo

· CT-26 O2 Housing/elbow

· Downpipe / exhaust system

· Oil Cooler

· Oil Cooler piping

· Intercooler

· Intercooler piping

· GTE Exhaust Manifold

· GTE O2 sensor

· GTE Fuel Pressure Relay

· GTE Boost pressure sensor

· (6) GTE 440cc injectors (1989 7M-GE fuel rail)

· BOV (blow off valve)

· Various Hoses/Clamps

· Oil filter housing

· GTE Tachometer electronics

1.4 Various parts list

After gathering the parts from the GTE engine, there are a few other various parts you should gather to save you complications for the long run. I will go into greater detail later.

· Toyota Thermostat

· W-58(N/A) or R154(Turbo) upgraded clutch

· Aftermarket or Resurfaced Flywheel (W-58 or R154)

· ARP Head Bolts

· Toyota Head Gasket or better

· Toyota intake / exhaust manifold gaskets for the GTE (depending on application)

· Toyota rubber coolant hoses

1.5 7M-GE Engine dismantle

With the parts in hand, you can finally park your Supra to go under the knife. Remove all the electronics on the car that have some sort of connection to the wiring harness. Other electronics already hooked into the body of the car (such as the windshield wiper motor etc) will work regardless. The wiring harness extends over through the firewall on the passengers side of the vehicle. Make sure you disconnect/remove the battery before attempting all of this. Removing the glove box allows easy access to the GE ECU. Remove various intake and exhaust components to view the naked head and block. Remove head for resurfacing and remove transmission for upgrade (R154 turbo transmission) or replacing the GE clutch. The head gasket will not last very long under boost conditions, along with the GE clutch. Learn from my mistakes and replace both during the dismantle process. Personally, if you are aiming under 400-450 RWTQ, the W-58 (N/A) transmission should be fine. Keep all of the bolts and various parts together, as you will never know when you might need them again. Replacing various coolant hoses and replacing the thermostat at the same time would be a wise decision. As always, clean all of the parts thoroughly, such as the radiator. Years of driving accumulates large amounts of dirt, leaves, and other foreign objects on the front of the radiator resulting in cooling problems.

1.6 Head and Block preparations

To start off, i'll give you a brief history of my prior experience with the 7M motor with higher compression under forced induction. With ARP head bolts torqued to 72 foot-pounds, and a brand new OEM Toyota Headgasket (some say redesigned, i would be skeptical about that) I believed the way to prevent headgaskets blowing would be to control detonation. So with enough fuel in hand, I went the route of the stock headgasket. The Head was milled by a local machine shop 6 thousandths of an inch, and the block was cleaned. By that, I mean that I removed all the old gasket material on the block. Within 1000 KM, my headgasket was blown again, with deformation around the intake side of the gasket even worse than prior. With further research, I came to a conclusion that even though I did control detonation, that the way the 7M motor is designed, specifically the different expanding and contracting rates of the aluminum head against the cast iron block, along with the design regarding cooling passages on the OEM headgaskets, that a inferior product such as the OEM headgasket cannot last under these boosted situations. Some have used the OEM headgasket with proper torque with success, but under a high compression application, I would suggest against it.

With my 2nd headgasket blown, and knowing I was just getting started at 300 horsepower, I soon realized that the OEM gasket would not be the way to go. By taking the head into a local machine shop again, this time shaving 5 thousandths of an inch off, the head was ready to be installed. But having some time on my hands, I purchased new valve stem seals, and replaced my old ones accordingly. If your engine has a lot of wear, or if you are slightly smoking oil out of your exhaust, I would suggest to change these as doing it with the head on is much more difficult. I also received a five angle valve job with reground valves at this time, for better airflow. On the 7M motor, they come stock with a somewhat three angle valve job, which is much better than most stock engines. For the average supra owner, if you are tight on cash, I would advise against this modification, unless you can do it yourself or a reputable shop will do this job for cheap.

When going for “more-than-stock” power, there is no substitute for a properly installed Metal Headgasket. A few companies make these gaskets for the 7M, specifically GReddy and HKS. These headgaskets are of a much better design, regarding cooling passages, and come in various thicknesses. Unless you are confident with your judgment, order your headgasket after all of the block and headwork has been done. That way, you can select the right size to normalize or decrease your compression ratio. Remember, the higher the compression ratio, the more prone you are to detonation and pinging when running positive manifold pressure. Don’t expect to run 20psi on N/A compression and dodge extreme detonation.

For the block work, inspect the block for major crevasses in the block, paying close attention to the firerings around the cylinders, and damage around coolant passages. If it looks like the block is in decent shape, you can follow Reg Riemer’s guide to lapping your block at http://www.supras.com/pub/SONIC/MA70/HKSMETALHGv5.txt , where you will find a more in depth guide to metal head gaskets, and their installation into the 7M. A common saying “an alarm system is only as good as it’s install” can be used here, as a Metal Headgasket will do you no good if installed incorrectly. Please follow these steps closely and do it once and for all for good. It’s not fun to replace blown headgaskets time and time again on your vehicle due to improper sealing. Ask me how I know.
s383mmber1
05-13-2006, 03:24 PM
1.7 Engine Assembly

Assuming you have gathered all of your necessary parts and did the required work to your engine, you are now ready to start to reassemble your motor. After installing the head, disregard any manuals regarding the 7M-GE motor, especially regarding the electronics. From now on, you will need to refer to 7M-GTE manuals for help. Things that change would be the replacement of the distributor with the cam position sensor, new addition of a coil pack, addition of the igniter, replacement of the 7M-GE AFM with the 7M-GTE AFM (housing and electronics), addition of the fuel pressure relay, and replacement of injectors. Don’t forget as well, you will need to swap over the 7M-GE tach circuit board to the 7M-GTE circuit board. From now on, things are pretty standard and self-explanatory. With your ECU and wiring harness in place, you can plug in various sensors and electronics. When installing new sensors or electronics, such as the igniter, it works best if you place the item close to the stock location on the 7M-GTE, due to the length of wire from the wiring harness. There are a few sensor connectors you can disregard that are on the GTE wiring harness, such as VSV’s on the intake side, and auxiliary fan sensors on the water jacket housing.

Now, depending on which setup route you took, regarding intake manifolds, both turbo and non turbo upper intake manifolds will bolt up to the lower intake manifold. If you choose the turbo intake manifold, it is smart as well to go with the turbo valve covers as well, and the rest is self-explanatory. For the non turbo upper intake manifold, the sensors such as the cold start injector, and ISC valve work on the GTE wiring harness. If you choose this manifold, you will notice that the Y pipe takes up a large portion of room, with no stock mounting points for the coil pack. The coil pack can be mounted sideways, (please refer to my site at http://bkriz.mkiiisupra.com/ for mounting bracket pictures) but requires a special mounting bracket to be fabricated, and the coil pack wiring needs to be extended for the connection to the wiring harness. In order to use the stock 7M-GTE spark plug wires, you will need to re-arrange the order of the coil pack so it is backwards from the stock configuration. It will be tight, but stock length spark plug wires will reach. From there, you should have no other things to worry about, and can be reassembled just like you would a normal 7M-GTE.

1.8 Final Thoughts

Was it worth it? Well, I have to respond to that question with another one: Do you like the MKIII supra? If you like working on it, if you like driving it, if you like understanding how the various systems on it work, then this is an excellent way to accomplish all of these things and have a very unique car on your hands once you’re done. The best part about this project is that each one is unique in its own way, and can be approached by many different aspects.

Don’t expect to have a super-go-fast-ultra-reliable car on your hands once you are done. It will take a long time until you find and work out all the bugs in the system, and even longer if you wish to modify it to become a fast(er) car than what you started with. Be prepared to have extra cash on hand when things go wrong, and do a lot of problem solving and diagnostics on the way.

All in all, once you boost, you won’t want anything else

**This FAQ will be updated constantly, being revised whenever I find something new or to correct it. I will not be taken responsible for whatever you manage to do or hurt yourself from following my write-up…. Plus I’m in Canada – good luck finding me up here in the arctic north **
HTH
Bryson Kriz

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 02:12 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:

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Ik denk dat jij naar Valv/Cyl kijkt (aantal kleppen per cilinder)
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Volgens mij wordt dat ook erg vaak gedaan.

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Voertuigsoort Info Personenauto
Merk Info TOYOTA
Handelsbenaming Info T18
Kleur(en) Info Blauw
Brandstof Info Benzine
G3 Installatie Info N.v.t.
Aantal cilinders Info 4
Cilinderinhoud Info 0 cm3
Vermogen Info 0 kW
Aantal zitplaatsen Info 0
Aantal staanplaatsen Info N.v.t.

Roetfilter Info N.v.t.
Euroklasse Info N.v.t.
Zuinigheidslabel Info Tijdelijk niet beschikbaar
Massa leeg voertuig Info 1.100 kg
Laadvermogen Info N.v.t.
Toegestane Maximum massa voertuig Info 0 kg
Massa rijklaar Info 0 kg
BPM Info ¤ 4189

Datum eerste afgifte Nederland Info 28-11-1997
Datum eerste toelating Info 23-11-1990
Datum aanvang tenaamstelling Info 12-04-2007

Vervaldatum APK Info 29-06-2007
Wacht op keuren Info Nee

Maximum massa te trekken indien aanhangwagen:
- ongeremd Info 0 kg
- geremd Info 0 kg
- oplegger geremd Info N.v.t.
- autonoom geremd Info N.v.t.
- middenas geremd Info N.v.t.

Alleen voor brom- en snorfietsen:
Maximale constructiesnelheid Info N.v.t.
Vermogen Info N.v.t.

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 15:16 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:
Dat is meestal zo als een auto geimporteerd wordt.

Handelsbenaming klopt ook niet.
T18 is een "verzamelnaam", die ze bij Toyota intern niet eens gebruiken
Hier in Nederland heet die auto gewoon een Celica en zou de handelsbenaming "CELICA 1.6 COUPE STI-U9" moeten zijn.
De "toyota code" is AT180

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 15:37 schreef Asmooh het volgende:

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gheh wist ik niet joh

grappig

maar ik heb geen U9, want ik heb geen kat

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 15:41 schreef Asmooh het volgende:
heb zo weer es een filmpje

nu mijn celica weer aardig normaal doet (alleen met lage brandstof niet)
dus binnenkort ff andere brandstof pomp


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjjiY7ZBXBo

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 20:52 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:

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Je hebt geen kat?
Weet je dat heel zeker, want bijna alle EFI motoren van Toyota hebben in Europa ook een kat.

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 01:32 schreef Asmooh het volgende:Ombouw naar een 7M is veeeel makkelijker dan naar een SW20, omdat bij de SW20 het blok achter zit.
met een 4age ook, sw16? maar daar kan het weer wel snap niet waarom bij sw20 niet maja das maar 150pk 2L.

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 20:52 schreef Tommy_Kuklinski het volgende:

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Je hebt geen kat?
Weet je dat heel zeker, want bijna alle EFI motoren van Toyota hebben in Europa ook een kat.

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Op zondag 27 mei 2007 11:06 schreef Sjabba het volgende:
Dat 2e filmpje is wta fatsoenlijker maar die eerste heb je echt geen overzicht en egen tijd om te reageren. Doe ff normaal joh. Ga ergens racen waar het een beetje kan. Hier in de wijk heb je ook van die gast die door een woonwijk 90 willen rijden, als je mij of iemand die ik ken aanrijd terwijl je zo doet heb je echt een probleem.

Kortom; zoals op het 2e filmpje, beetje open en overzichtelijke weg, dan kan je nog reageren als er iets opdoet..

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Op zondag 27 mei 2007 12:03 schreef Sjabba het volgende:
Ja, maar ik zag eerst een klein ventje fietsne met vader en later kwam je een scooter tegemoet. Het gaat erom dat je niet kan zien wat eraan komt, ongeacht waar je rijd. Stel dat die scooter niet reed maar net was gevallen en op de weg lag, of dat een snoeiwagen rijd van de gemeente ofzo en jij komt zo de bocht om, dat rem je niet aan hoor.

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Op zondag 27 mei 2007 13:12 schreef Dromer het volgende:
Inderdaad gevaarlijk bezig.. maar dat doen alle rotjochies van zijn leeftijd.

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Op zaterdag 26 mei 2007 15:41 schreef Asmooh het volgende:
heb zo weer es een filmpje

nu mijn celica weer aardig normaal doet (alleen met lage brandstof niet)
dus binnenkort ff andere brandstof pomp


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjjiY7ZBXBo

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Op zondag 27 mei 2007 12:44 schreef Asmooh het volgende:

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ik woon hier al jaren, weet precies waar je kan rijden en waar niet en hoe hard enzow

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Op zondag 27 mei 2007 19:37 schreef garnage-patrick het volgende:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDKS09D4hXc

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Op zondag 27 mei 2007 21:49 schreef Supra_Turbo het volgende:

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Trekken met die 323!
Pa heeft vroeger ook nog een 323 1.3 16V GLX gehad.
Behoorlijk luxe en best wel pittig, voor een 1.3'tje!

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Op zondag 27 mei 2007 19:37 schreef garnage-patrick het volgende:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDKS09D4hXc

hier asmooh, ik laat mijn koppeling terminste niet wegbranden... en rij op een plek waar het niet begroeit is. of kleine kids in de buurt zijn.

en ja,... in die overzichtelijke! bochten slip ik nog wel eens, maar kan ook weinig fout gaan. kan hoogstens andersom staan, daarmee houdt het ook wel op. (wat tevens nog nooit gebeurt is, weet wel ongeveer hoe me auto reageert)

dit rijgedrag is voor de rest niet verantwoord hoor enzo!

en lief hondje he, alleen zijn ophangpunt is gebroken

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Op zondag 27 mei 2007 14:34 schreef garnage-patrick het volgende:
omg! die koppeling!

kerel,... ga snel paar rijlessen nemen! staat ie in je 2 ofzo, en probeer je in je 2 met spinnende banden weg te rijden oid!

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Op zondag 27 mei 2007 14:21 schreef mbargo het volgende:

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Wat een idioot. Kan je hem niet even tegen een boom knallen om je airbags te testen?